View Full Version : Billy the Kid's grave desecrated.
Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
07-08-2012, 02:29 PM
http://www.newsoxy.com/odd/billy-the-kids-tombstone-vandalized-79431.html
Billy the Kid’s 2,000 Pound Tombstone Vandalized In New Mexico
By: Bill Waters
07/08/2012 07:01 AM ET
Somebody went and vandalized Billy The Kid’s tombstone, which is a 2,000-pound gravestone, and while they were at it, they stole three antique rifles and a shotgun from the old Fort Sumner Museum in New Mexico.
The thieves also vandalized other gravestones in the cemetery.
De Baca County authorities said that the criminals were still at large and that there is a $1,000 reward for information leading to the arrest.
Billy the Kid, born William Henry McCarty, Jr. in 1859, became a famed outlaw in the Wild West who according to legend killed 21 people, although it is generally believed that he actually killed between four and nine people.
He was a central figure in a violent, Irish-English land war in New Mexico, and was beloved by Mexican-American ranchers who felt discriminated against by racist white bankers and land thieves.
The Kid’s end came only after he refused to abandon his Mexican-American teen girlfriend.
Most likely born in New York City, he came to New Mexico with his mother while searching for a better economic future.
It was in Silver City, N.M., that a young Billy the Kid learned Spanish and Mexican dances as he mingled easily among the territory’s large Mexican-American population when others from the East Coast didn’t even bother, according to Paul Hutton, a University of New Mexico American West historian, who appears in the new film.
When his mother died of tuberculosis when he was 15, Billy the Kid was left an orphan and raised largely by Mexican-American ranchers and sheepherders.
This helped the Kid later when he was on the run from the law and was given shelter by poor Mexican-Americans ranchers he befriended, Hutton said.
Too bad, the Kid deserved to be left in peace.
I've rarely seen a Western movie or WesternTV series that I didnt like.-Tyr
Shadow
07-08-2012, 02:34 PM
http://www.newsoxy.com/odd/billy-the-kids-tombstone-vandalized-79431.html
Billy the Kid’s 2,000 Pound Tombstone Vandalized In New Mexico
By: Bill Waters
07/08/2012 07:01 AM ET
Somebody went and vandalized Billy The Kid’s tombstone, which is a 2,000-pound gravestone, and while they were at it, they stole three antique rifles and a shotgun from the old Fort Sumner Museum in New Mexico.
The thieves also vandalized other gravestones in the cemetery.
De Baca County authorities said that the criminals were still at large and that there is a $1,000 reward for information leading to the arrest.
Billy the Kid, born William Henry McCarty, Jr. in 1859, became a famed outlaw in the Wild West who according to legend killed 21 people, although it is generally believed that he actually killed between four and nine people.
He was a central figure in a violent, Irish-English land war in New Mexico, and was beloved by Mexican-American ranchers who felt discriminated against by racist white bankers and land thieves.
The Kid’s end came only after he refused to abandon his Mexican-American teen girlfriend.
Most likely born in New York City, he came to New Mexico with his mother while searching for a better economic future.
It was in Silver City, N.M., that a young Billy the Kid learned Spanish and Mexican dances as he mingled easily among the territory’s large Mexican-American population when others from the East Coast didn’t even bother, according to Paul Hutton, a University of New Mexico American West historian, who appears in the new film.
When his mother died of tuberculosis when he was 15, Billy the Kid was left an orphan and raised largely by Mexican-American ranchers and sheepherders.
This helped the Kid later when he was on the run from the law and was given shelter by poor Mexican-Americans ranchers he befriended, Hutton said.
Too bad, the Kid deserved to be left in peace.
I've rarely seen a Western movie or WesternTV series that I didnt like.-Tyr
People can't seem to leave his grave site alone. His tombstone has been stolen at least three times in the past. Which is why they now have it secured by a cage. Sad that people can't respect historical markers.
Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
07-08-2012, 02:52 PM
People can't seem to leave his grave site alone. His tombstone has been stolen at least three times in the past. Which is why they now have it secured by a cage. Sad that people can't respect historical markers.
Some people respect nothing! It's all about their greed and selfish desires!
Cowboys have a special place in our history and the cowboy era only lasted about 20 years.
I remember as a kid in the 60's going to Saturday afternoon movies, almost always they were Westerns!
Think of all the great actors and actresses that made their mark in Westerns, one of my favorite was a real life great war hero, Audie Murphy. Then their was Roy Rogers, Gene Autry, Hop Along Cassidy, Maverick, Bronco, Wanted Dead or Alive, Sugarfoot, Bonanza, Laramie, Wagon Train, Rawhide, The Big Valley, The Lawman, The Virginian, The Law of the Plainsman, The Rebel, Wyatt Earp, Bat Masterson, The Rifleman, All the John Wayne movies, a few dozen more at least...-Tyr
aboutime
07-08-2012, 03:40 PM
Some people respect nothing! It's all about their greed and selfish desires!
Cowboys have a special place in our history and the cowboy era only lasted about 20 years.
I remember as a kid in the 60's going to Saturday afternoon movies, almost always they were Westerns!
Think of all the great actors and actresses that made their mark in Westerns, one of my favorite was a real life great war hero, Audie Murphy. Then their was Roy Rogers, Gene Autry, Hop Along Cassidy, Maverick, Bronco, Wanted Dead or Alive, Sugarfoot, Bonanza, Laramie, Wagon Train, Rawhide, The Big Valley, The Lawman, The Virginian, The Law of the Plainsman, The Rebel, Wyatt Earp, Bat Masterson, The Rifleman, All the John Wayne movies, a few dozen more at least...-Tyr
Gotta agree with you about the greed, and selfishness. But, we cannot forget that those who do such things for...as you called it...selfish desires. Stems from Poor parenting, and probably parents whom never had respect for other people, or their property. So, the children just mirror what their parents have taught them. Being bad parents in most cases.
Just look at the statistics of vandalism across the nation. From the Tagging, we call Graffiti, on buses, trucks, trains, walls, and water tanks.
9 times out of 10. Those kinds of disrespectful destruction of other people's property is done by unmonitored, disrespectful kids, and even young adults who get their selfish desires any way they can.
Shadow
07-08-2012, 05:00 PM
Some people respect nothing! It's all about their greed and selfish desires!
Cowboys have a special place in our history and the cowboy era only lasted about 20 years.
I remember as a kid in the 60's going to Saturday afternoon movies, almost always they were Westerns!
Think of all the great actors and actresses that made their mark in Westerns, one of my favorite was a real life great war hero, Audie Murphy. Then their was Roy Rogers, Gene Autry, Hop Along Cassidy, Maverick, Bronco, Wanted Dead or Alive, Sugarfoot, Bonanza, Laramie, Wagon Train, Rawhide, The Big Valley, The Lawman, The Virginian, The Law of the Plainsman, The Rebel, Wyatt Earp, Bat Masterson, The Rifleman, All the John Wayne movies, a few dozen more at least...-Tyr
I love the cowboy era and all the westerns...both TV and movies. I've seen many of them. Definately all of the movies made about Billy the Kid too. Even the one made in the 80's with Val Kilmer. On a trip back from my honeymoon we even visited all of the locations Billy The Kid hung out in Fort Sumner,Lincoln...some of the old grave yards in both places etc... Have some pretty neat pictures of that trip. Lincoln,even though small, has a few really nice gift shops...bought a few books there (and homemade jelly ;)).
Speaking of BTK...this year my daughter actually did a pretty impressive book report/project on Billy The Kid.
NM has a pretty interesting old west history...complete with outlaws...and not just Billy the Kid either.
Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
07-08-2012, 05:30 PM
I love the cowboy era and all the westerns...both TV and movies. I've seen many of them. Definately all of the movies made about Billy the Kid too. Even the one made in the 80's with Val Kilmer. On a trip back from my honeymoon we even visited all of the locations Billy The Kid hung out in Fort Sumner,Lincoln...some of the old grave yards in both places etc... Have some pretty neat pictures of that trip. Lincoln,even though small, has a few really nice gift shops...bought a few books there (and homemade jelly ;)).
Speaking of BTK...this year my daughter actually did a pretty impressive book report/project on Billy The Kid.
NM has a pretty interesting old west history...complete with outlaws...and not just Billy the Kid either.
Old West history is interesting as hell to me. Cowboy gunfights, Indian fights, fighting the elements. Those guys were tough, hard men! If I could choose any era to go back to visit that would be it, of course I'd take with me a pair of 45 cal. Kimbers and 12 ga. SAGA SHOTGUN!! -:laugh2:--Tyr
Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
07-08-2012, 05:34 PM
Gotta agree with you about the greed, and selfishness. But, we cannot forget that those who do such things for...as you called it...selfish desires. Stems from Poor parenting, and probably parents whom never had respect for other people, or their property. So, the children just mirror what their parents have taught them. Being bad parents in most cases.
Just look at the statistics of vandalism across the nation. From the Tagging, we call Graffiti, on buses, trucks, trains, walls, and water tanks.
9 times out of 10. Those kinds of disrespectful destruction of other people's property is done by unmonitored, disrespectful kids, and even young adults who get their selfish desires any way they can.
All kids are wild a bit but its the dont ever give a ffkk ones that turn into destructive selfish monsters. Any child has to be taught right from wrong and encouraged to create a guiding set of moral principles. Some parents are to busy being asshats themselves to bother teaching anything other than take all that you can get by hook,crook or any other means.-Tyr
Shadow
07-08-2012, 05:34 PM
Old West history is interesting as hell to me. Cowboy gunfights, Indian fights, fighting the elements. Those guys were tough, hard men! If I could choose any era to go back to visit that would be it, of course I'd take with me a pair of 45 cal. Kimbers and 12 ga. SAGA SHOTGUN!! -:laugh2:--Tyr
Yep tough bunch. There was usually a fine line between 'outlaw' and 'lawman' too. We had several in NM that ran with cattle russlers and outlaw gangs...then latter became a sheriff of a town.
Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
07-08-2012, 05:56 PM
Yep tough bunch. There was usually a fine line between 'outlaw' and 'lawman' too. We had several in NM that ran with cattle russlers and outlaw gangs...then latter became a sheriff of a town.
That wildness was what made it such an exciting era in the west. Still a bit of Indian fighting , a good deal of lawbreaking and everything was progressing as the railroad advance brought economic prospects along with gold and silver mining. Banks were just waiting to be robbed!! :laugh:-Tyr
WiccanLiberal
07-08-2012, 06:39 PM
A friend of mine grew up in Ft Sumner. We visited her mama there some years ago and went to visit the museum and the small graveyard. I would have bet no one could get at the darned thing the way they had it bolted down and caged in. BTW, anyone know about the tomb stone races? As many times as the darn thing was stolen, the locals decided to make some fun of it. On Old Fort Days, they have tombstone races where the contestants have to cover a course carrying a replica of the monument.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfDXsUKPz4U
SassyLady
07-08-2012, 07:31 PM
Old West history is interesting as hell to me. Cowboy gunfights, Indian fights, fighting the elements. Those guys were tough, hard men! If I could choose any era to go back to visit that would be it, of course I'd take with me a pair of 45 cal. Kimbers and 12 ga. SAGA SHOTGUN!! -:laugh2:--Tyr
I grew up reading Zane Grey books.....my dad was a cowboy and worked on cattle ranches in Oklahoma and Texas before he started driving cattle trucks.
Love the Western era!
Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
07-08-2012, 09:28 PM
I grew up reading Zane Grey books.....my dad was a cowboy and worked on cattle ranches in Oklahoma and Texas before he started driving cattle trucks.
Love the Western era!
Whoa! Well, bust my saddle , legs like that and a cowgirl too!
Somebody is a very lucky man....--Tyr
SassyLady
07-09-2012, 01:11 AM
Whoa! Well, bust my saddle , legs like that and a cowgirl too!
Somebody is a very lucky man....--Tyr'
Was a lucky man! Recently divorced.
During my "cowgirl" years I fell off a green mare in our round corral and dislocated my hip. That same mare, a few years later, while in heat and pissed off that I wanted to saddle her up instead of letting her run up and down the fence line flirting with the stud next door, decided to rear up and on the way down caught me in the face with her hoof. Dislocated my jaw and at my advanced age has caused quite a painful problem with TMJ.
Other than those two incidents, I've had a pretty good life and loads of fun with horses.
logroller
07-09-2012, 01:53 AM
I've told this story once here before, I think, but it seems fitting here as well. My grandpa was half Cherokee, and in new Mexico during the 20's American Indians werent treated well by law enforcement. Anywho, long story short, my grandfather carried a burden to his grave for having lied about what transpired between his uncle and a federal Marshal; which left the marshal dead. Still don't know the whole story; like many stories of yore, its a telling tale...if only the family Winchester could talk. (my dad still has it btw)
Shadow
07-09-2012, 07:29 AM
A friend of mine grew up in Ft Sumner. We visited her mama there some years ago and went to visit the museum and the small graveyard. I would have bet no one could get at the darned thing the way they had it bolted down and caged in. BTW, anyone know about the tomb stone races? As many times as the darn thing was stolen, the locals decided to make some fun of it. On Old Fort Days, they have tombstone races where the contestants have to cover a course carrying a replica of the monument.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfDXsUKPz4U
Don't really know much about it. Probably very similar to the celebrations they have in Lincoln every year though with the "old Lincoln celebrations'. They have local actors reinact Billy's jail break. I have never been...but I have heard it's pretty fun.
Lincoln, New Mexico, Celebrates Billy the Kid's Famous Jail Break
A visit to historic Lincoln in southern New Mexico puts tourists smack dab in the middle of the old Wild West. Lincoln is the scene of the legendary jail break of Henry McCarty, alias William H. Bonney, alias Billy the Kid. It was also one of the slowest escapes in history.
http://voices.yahoo.com/lincoln-mexico-celebrates-billy-kids-famous-515545.html?cat=16
Shadow
07-09-2012, 07:40 AM
I've told this story once here before, I think, but it seems fitting here as well. My grandpa was half Cherokee, and in new Mexico during the 20's American Indians werent treated well by law enforcement. Anywho, long story short, my grandfather carried a burden to his grave for having lied about what transpired between his uncle and a federal Marshal; which left the marshal dead. Still don't know the whole story; like many stories of yore, its a telling tale...if only the family Winchester could talk. (my dad still has it btw)
Those stories always facinate me. You hear them a lot from old folks who have lived in NM all their life. My grandma had a story about going to a barn dance with friends when she was real young in a horse drawn wagon...and being chased by a couple men on horseback trying to rob them. Made me always think about all of the things she saw and experienced in her 96 years of life (epecially the advancements in technology). Amazing.
ringotuna
07-09-2012, 07:47 AM
As a kid, we used to play Outlaws in and around the old El Paso County Jail (in San Elizario) where Billy the Kid is purported to have broken his friend Malquiades Segura out in 1876. Inside the adobe structure there was a cage made of flat strap steel and rivets. We would re-enact the jail break, jump on our horses and ride like hell for the river with a posse not far behind.
http://www.texasescapes.com/WestTexasTowns/SanElizarioTexas/SanElizarioTexasOldElPasoCountyJail1205TJnsn.jpg
Shadow
07-09-2012, 09:35 AM
As a kid, we used to play Outlaws in and around the old El Paso County Jail (in San Elizario) where Billy the Kid is purported to have broken his friend Malquiades Segura out in 1876. Inside the adobe structure there was a cage made of flat strap steel and rivets. We would re-enact the jail break, jump on our horses and ride like hell for the river with a posse not far behind.
http://www.texasescapes.com/WestTexasTowns/SanElizarioTexas/SanElizarioTexasOldElPasoCountyJail1205TJnsn.jpg
San Elizario has recently started having their own Billy The Kid festivals...complete with reinactments and other activities. Just missed it it looks like...wrapped up in June. Sounds like they had a lot going on. Carriage rides,Live music,food,arts and crafts....
Billy the Kid fest in San Elizario draws a few thousand
A small, but growing, festival in San Elizario celebrates this town's ties to
legendary outlaw "Billy the Kid."
The third annual Billy the Kid Festival wrapped up late Sunday night after 2½
days of fun-filled activities. Between 2,000 to 3,000 visitors took in the
festival since Friday, event organizer and local artist Al Borrego estimated.
According to local lore, William H. Bonney, better know as "Billy the Kid,"
busted his friend, Melquiades Segura, out of the old El Paso County Jail in San
Elizario in 1876.
http://www.elpasotimes.com/news/ci_20828296/billy-kid-fest-san-elizario-draws-few-thousand
Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
07-09-2012, 10:20 AM
San Elizario has recently started having their own Billy The Kid festivals...complete with reinactments and other activities. Just missed it it looks like...wrapped up in June. Sounds like they had a lot going on. Carriage rides,Live music,food,arts and crafts....
Billy the Kid fest in San Elizario draws a few thousand
A small, but growing, festival in San Elizario celebrates this town's ties to
legendary outlaw "Billy the Kid."
The third annual Billy the Kid Festival wrapped up late Sunday night after 2½
days of fun-filled activities. Between 2,000 to 3,000 visitors took in the
festival since Friday, event organizer and local artist Al Borrego estimated.
According to local lore, William H. Bonney, better know as "Billy the Kid,"
busted his friend, Melquiades Segura, out of the old El Paso County Jail in San
Elizario in 1876.
http://www.elpasotimes.com/news/ci_20828296/billy-kid-fest-san-elizario-draws-few-thousand
Marked that as a possible summer vacation destination next year. Thanks for the info.-Tyr
ringotuna
07-09-2012, 06:58 PM
Marked that as a possible summer vacation destination next year. Thanks for the info.-Tyr
Tyr. I wouldn't reccommend San Eli as a "destination". Maybe a stop over for a day on your way to somewhere more interesting. It's a cool little village for sure, but not a whole lot to do there. But, if you insist at some point....gimme a shout I can give you a few pointers in the area.
ringotuna
07-09-2012, 07:01 PM
San Elizario has recently started having their own Billy The Kid festivals...complete with reinactments and other activities. Just missed it it looks like...wrapped up in June. Sounds like they had a lot going on. Carriage rides,Live music,food,arts and crafts....
Billy the Kid fest in San Elizario draws a few thousand
A small, but growing, festival in San Elizario celebrates this town's ties to
legendary outlaw "Billy the Kid."
The third annual Billy the Kid Festival wrapped up late Sunday night after 2½
days of fun-filled activities. Between 2,000 to 3,000 visitors took in the
festival since Friday, event organizer and local artist Al Borrego estimated.
According to local lore, William H. Bonney, better know as "Billy the Kid,"
busted his friend, Melquiades Segura, out of the old El Paso County Jail in San
Elizario in 1876.
http://www.elpasotimes.com/news/ci_20828296/billy-kid-fest-san-elizario-draws-few-thousand
I wasn't aware of the festival, until now that is. It's funny though, hundreds of people showing up to watch what we used to do when we was lil cowpokes. We never drew an audience, maybe a couple of ole timers laughing at us.
Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
07-09-2012, 08:04 PM
Tyr. I wouldn't reccommend San Eli as a "destination". Maybe a stop over for a day on your way to somewhere more interesting. It's a cool little village for sure, but not a whole lot to do there. But, if you insist at some point....gimme a shout I can give you a few pointers in the area.
Thanks amigo, that's a mighty kind offer. I just may take you up on it if my wife doesnt insist that we first travel to the Philippines before venturing anywhere else in the states! She has not seen in person her family there in 8 long years. Its about time and if our son's health improves enough we may go there late next year instead. When we do go it will be for an entire month and it will not be cheap! So cuts will have to be made for such a costly trip.-Tyr
Shadow
07-09-2012, 09:41 PM
I wasn't aware of the festival, until now that is. It's funny though, hundreds of people showing up to watch what we used to do when we was lil cowpokes. We never drew an audience, maybe a couple of ole timers laughing at us.
I guess they finally decided to embrace their history and have some fun with it. Good for tourism too apparently. That kind of stuff has gotten more trendy in the last decade or so.
Just goes to show that the kids today miss out on things we took for granted when we were young... like getting to explore the old run down buildings and use our imagination like we did as kids.
ringotuna
07-10-2012, 04:45 AM
Thanks amigo, that's a mighty kind offer. I just may take you up on it if my wife doesnt insist that we first travel to the Philippines before venturing anywhere else in the states! She has not seen in person her family there in 8 long years. Its about time and if our son's health improves enough we may go there late next year instead. When we do go it will be for an entire month and it will not be cheap! So cuts will have to be made for such a costly trip.-Tyr
May I suggest that you do exactly as the wife wishes. Two years ago Mrs. T wanted to go on a vacation. Now ya gotta know that Mrs. T does not nag, nor does she beg, but it was clear that she wanted this vacation. We went back and forth on it for a few weeks, I just wasn't interested at the time because I had a lot on my plate. Anyway Mrs. T comes to me one day and says "don't worry about the vacation thing, I've got something else planned for you that week."
The good news is that the colonoscopy revealed nothing to be concerned about. :thumb:
ringotuna
07-10-2012, 04:59 AM
I guess they finally decided to embrace their history and have some fun with it. Good for tourism too apparently. That kind of stuff has gotten more trendy in the last decade or so.
Just goes to show that the kids today miss out on things we took for granted when we were young... like getting to explore the old run down buildings and use our imagination like we did as kids.
In some cases it's a wonder we survived it. :eek:
taft2012
07-10-2012, 05:54 AM
People can't seem to leave his grave site alone. His tombstone has been stolen at least three times in the past. Which is why they now have it secured by a cage. Sad that people can't respect historical markers.
Heh, let's not lose sight of the fact that we're talking about a criminal here.
If "The Kid" were still alive, he'd probably steal his own tombstone.
Shadow
07-10-2012, 07:23 PM
Heh, let's not lose sight of the fact that we're talking about a criminal here.
If "The Kid" were still alive, he'd probably steal his own tombstone.
I see your point. So... he was probably laughing at the Irony from above then? :)
Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
07-10-2012, 07:30 PM
May I suggest that you do exactly as the wife wishes. Two years ago Mrs. T wanted to go on a vacation. Now ya gotta know that Mrs. T does not nag, nor does she beg, but it was clear that she wanted this vacation. We went back and forth on it for a few weeks, I just wasn't interested at the time because I had a lot on my plate. Anyway Mrs. T comes to me one day and says "don't worry about the vacation thing, I've got something else planned for you that week."
The good news is that the colonoscopy revealed nothing to be concerned about. :thumb:
haha, guess she taught you that talking out of ur azz doesnt pay in the long run.-;)
Yes, good advice , you are right when momma aint happy , aint NOBODY GONNA BE HAPPY!-:beer:-Tyr
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