GOPs Caucuses making up rules to force Delegates to vote 1 way

[revelarts]

GOPs Caucuses making up rules to force Delegates to vote 1 way in MA and other states say it aint so.

I thought Acorn was the only one messing with votes evah evah?


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[fj1200]

Didn't you know you were voting for delegates and not candidates? And the GOP can make their own rules?

[revelarts]

Didn't you know you were voting for delegates and not candidates? And the GOP can make their own rules?

Just like the supreme court it seems.

[Kathianne]

Just like the supreme court it seems.

No, just like a political party.

[fj1200]

Just like the supreme court it seems.

Huh?

[revelarts]

No, just like a political party.


Huh?

Supreme court made up rules it's says are constitutional, and political parties don't have to follow their own rules if it means people can change the status quo, they can change the rules at any time depending on the people sitting in the party chairs not on the party members votes or voters.

but it's wrong and crazy evil if Acorn has people make up votes and voters for certain dems,
but oK if republicans do it this way and others.

gotcha no problem.

[fj1200]

Supreme court made up rules it's says are constitutional, and political parties don't have to follow their own rules if it means people can change the status quo, they can change the rules at any time depending on the people sitting in the party chairs not on the party members votes or voters.

but it's wrong and crazy evil if Acorn has people make up votes and voters for certain dems,
but oK if republicans do it this way and others.

gotcha no problem.

Private entity rules vs. public voting. Apples vs. dumptrucks.

[Little-Acorn]

I thought Acorn was the only one messing with votes evah evah?



All my friends do it too.

[revelarts]

Private entity rules vs. public voting. Apples vs. dumptrucks.

Private voting rules vs public voting?

so what's the difference here
it's OK to jigger votes if its private but not ok if it's public?

i'm not following you here?

[fj1200]

i'm not following you here?

Really? You don't see that the general election is different than a primary for delegates to a primary where a private entity will make a choice? You may not agree with what they do or like it but there is a difference.

[Gaffer]

Ron Paul is not going to be the GOP nominee, no matter what rules are applied.

[revelarts]

Really? You don't see that the general election is different than a primary for delegates to a primary where a private entity will make a choice? You may not agree with what they do or like it but there is a difference.

not really, all are to determine the president of the U.S. I'm not sure why one should be fair based on peoples votes and established rules while the other can be determined by faux voting and party bosses.

[jimnyc]

not really, all are to determine the president of the U.S. I'm not sure why one should be fair based on peoples votes and established rules while the other can be determined by faux voting and party bosses.

I assure you that the GOP primary would be the same, it's been determined by the voters. Even without changes, Romney was going to be the nominee and Paul was finishing in the back of the pack. Sorry.

[logroller]

not really, all are to determine the president of the U.S. I'm not sure why one should be fair based on peoples votes and established rules while the other can be determined by faux voting and party bosses.

Sounds to me like your issue is with political parties; specifically, the two-party system. I'd tend to agree with you; but what's the fix-- do away with primaries? Seems that would favor the incumbent, no?

[revelarts]

I assure you that the GOP primary would be the same, it's been determined by the voters. Even without changes, Romney was going to be the nominee and Paul was finishing in the back of the pack. Sorry.


Sounds to me like your issue is with political parties; specifically, the two-party system. I'd tend to agree with you; but what's the fix-- do away with primaries? Seems that would favor the incumbent, no?

So it's Ok if the party bosses fix the primaries, we should just shrug our shoulders and ignore it but we should whine like stuck pigs when the democrats add a name or to the voter roles?


Jim & Graffer if Ron doesn't have chance Why all the vote fixing?

[jimnyc]

So it's Ok if the party bosses fix the primaries, we should just shrug our shoulders and ignore it but we should whine like stuck pigs when the democrats add a name or to the voter roles?


Jim & Graffer if Ron doesn't have chance Why all the vote fixing?

I've looked at the voting for every single state. RP simply doesn't have the votes or delegates no matter how you add them up, and he never did. And quite frankly, I don't see what's taken place this year as "vote fixing". There wouldn't have been a difference with or without any changes. Lots of sour grapes from RP fans.

[jimnyc]

Btw, Rev, I didn't watch the video. Can you post proof via something in writing about what is discussed, so those of us that don't like videos can see this latest vote fixing? It'll have more credibility than Maddow no matter where it comes from! But seriously, the video plays a 30 second ad right now and then buffers forever and never starts. Plus I really do hate videos. And Maddow.

[avatar4321]

Voters already decided the primary. Sorry:)

[logroller]

So it's Ok if the party bosses fix the primaries, we should just shrug our shoulders and ignore it but we should whine like stuck pigs when the democrats add a name or to the voter roles?


Jim & Graffer if Ron doesn't have chance Why all the vote fixing?
I never said any of that; I asked what you'd suggest to fix it. But as for why, it's to give their party an advantage over the other major party; else why would they bother? They have handily defeated any third party nominees' chances of all but a handful of electoral votes.

[revelarts]

I never said any of that; I asked what you'd suggest to fix it. .

Fix it? Well, 1st of all regular Joe republicains should , like for here, should be pissed at the party bosses. and put pressure on them rather than try to defend shady activity. that would probably be enough. But as it stands it looks like most people don't care if it's A little shady as long as the it looks like it didn't matter.



But as for why, it's to give their party an advantage over the other major party; else why would they bother? They have handily defeated any third party nominees' chances of all but a handful of electoral votes
I'm not sure how shady last minute rules changes and strong arm tacits in your own party kicking out delegates that don't tow the line Is going to help you against the democrats.
Especially since there "NO WAY" Ron Paul has a chance. I'm not following what you saying. it seems like a waste of time. Do they not want to even give Paul a platform to speak at the convention? it makes no sense.

[revelarts]

I've looked at the voting for every single state. RP simply doesn't have the votes or delegates no matter how you add them up, and he never did. And quite frankly, I don't see what's taken place this year as "vote fixing". There wouldn't have been a difference with or without any changes. Lots of sour grapes from RP fans.
Btw, Rev, I didn't watch the video. Can you post proof via something in writing about what is discussed, so those of us that don't like videos can see this latest vote fixing? It'll have more credibility than Maddow no matter where it comes from! But seriously, the video plays a 30 second ad right now and then buffers forever and never starts. Plus I really do hate videos. And Maddow.




Appearing on MSNBC’s The Rachel Maddow Show on Monday night, Ron Paul supporter and former Massachusetts Republican Party delegate Evan Kenney explained how the party’s “elite power brokers” actually made their own rules up on the spot in order to keep him and other Paul supporters out of the Republican National Convention in August.
After Kenney, an 18-year-old, was elected to represent Massachusetts Republicans at the national convention, party officials suddenly began requiring a written affidavit swearing to vote for Mitt Romney “under pain and penalty of perjury” — a move they’d never tried before.
“My reaction was like, ‘Well, okay,’” Kenney told Maddow. “I didn’t know the rules. I was ready [to swear to vote for Mitt Romney] until my mom pointed out to me… ‘You can’t swear under pain and penalty of perjury to do something in the future, because it would never hold up in court.’”
“So I thought, you’re right, maybe I should be careful,” he explained. “After consulting with the Mass Liberty caucus (http://www.rlc.org/2011/05/21/ma-de-2011/), we decided to send in an affidavit that says we’re gonna follow your rules, we’re going to follow Massachusetts general law, and we’re going to follow GOP rules, which means we’re going to vote for Mitt Romney on the first ballot. But that was not enough, even though I got it in on time.”
Three days later, he claims the Massachusetts Republican Party’s chairman sent him a letter that explained Romney for President, Inc. had “just cause and irrefutable evidence that I would not vote for Mitt Romney on the first ballot. But I had a legally notarized affidavit, two of them, as well as a verbal pledge. All that was required was the verbal pledge. So, I pledged three times to vote for Mitt Romney.”
Kenney went on to blame leadership within the Massachusetts Republican Party. “These are only a few corrupt power brokers in the leadership who want to keep the party to themselves,” he said. “They don’t care that it’s 11 percent voter registration, and shrinking, in Massachusetts in the Republican Party. They just want to keep the power to themselves.”

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/07/10/ron-paul-delegate-romney-republicans-changed-the-rules-to-keep-me-out/




They did not deliver affidavit in support of Mitt Romney on time


By Stephanie Ebbert Globe Staff June 24, 2012 AP/File


In Massachusetts, Ron Paul’s Liberty Slate swept the Republican caucuses in April, stealing delegate spots that were expected to go to Mitt Romney’s friends and allies, whom he had selected.
Evan Kenney had just turned 18 and registered to vote for the first time when he campaigned to be an alternate delegate to the Republican National Convention. Lauding Ronald Reagan’s principles and blasting Keynesian economics at the Lynnfield caucus in April, the Wakefield High School senior beat out several well-known Massachusetts Republicans, including the party’s most recent nominee for governor, Charles D. Baker Jr.
But earlier this month, Kenney was one of 17 delegates and alternates disqualified by a Republican committee deciding who gets to represent Massachusetts Republicans at the national convention in Tampa. Kenney and others had failed to deliver in time an affidavit swearing, under the penalty of perjury, that they would support Mitt Romney’s nomination for president.
An affidavit is never mentioned in the Republican Party’s rules for selecting delegates and has never been required of delegates in the past, GOP critics say. Suspicions are steep this year because Kenney and the others are supporters of Ron Paul, the libertarian candidate whose quixotic campaign for president culminated in an effort to take over state caucuses nationwide. The delegates must vote for Romney, based on his strong primary win in Massachusetts, but Paul’s supporters hope to use the convention to draw attention to his agenda, including auditing the Federal Reserve and requiring wars to be declared by Congress.
In Massachusetts, Paul’s Liberty Slate swept the Republican caucuses in April, stealing delegate spots that were expected to go to Romney’s friends and allies, whom he had selected. Massachusetts, a state dominated by Democrats and typically marginalized at national Republican events, could have an unusual share of the limelight at this year’s convention, since its former governor is the party’s expected presidential nominee.
Some libertarian-leaning delegates balked at the notion of signing legal affidavits pledging what they had committed verbally at the caucuses where they were elected. Many later submitted them, but not until after the deadline.
As a result, the committee disqualified them, winnowing the number of Liberty delegates and alternates to the convention from 35 to 19, said organizer Brad Wyatt. (One Liberty delegate was added due to the changes in the roster.)


“I’ve been rudely awakened to the realities of politics. I feel I’ve been cheated.” <cite>Evan Kenney</cite>

A spokesman for the Massachusetts Republican Party would not say why the affidavits were required of delegates this year, and the chairman of the Allocations Committee would not agree to an interview. Instead, the chairman offered an e-mailed statement saying that the Romney campaign, through its representative on his committee, had the right to reject delegates for “just cause.”

“Governor Romney’s campaign, through its representative on the Allocation Committee, made the decision not to certify certain delegates and alternate delegates who were unwilling to sign and return on time the affidavit,” McGrath said in the statement. “The Allocation Committee agreed, by a unanimous vote, that these individuals’ failure to sign and return the correct affidavit on time constituted “just cause” for not being certified as national delegates.”
The actions by the GOP establishment in Massachusetts are further disenchanting some libertarians and conservatives who have traditionally been suspicious of the party’s top-down leadership. In a state where Republican registration has dwindled to just 11 percent of registered voters, the party can hardly afford to alienate enthusiastic activists, they say.
“I’m very disappointed and disheartened about the way we’ve been treated,” Wyatt said. “It’s almost unbelievable.”
Among the new activists is Carol Claros, a Worcester single mother and nurse who represents the first generation of her Colombian family to be born in the United States.
In the weeks leading up to the caucuses, Claros, who got interested in politics through Paul several years ago, worked with Wyatt and other activists to drum up attendance and support for the Liberty delegates. They did it “the old-fashioned way,” Claros said. “We reached out to our voters. We got a list of Republican donors . . . we must have called 2,000 people in the state. I was like a phone warrior.”
At her caucus, attended by more than 200 people, she was the nervous first speaker — but the second-highest vote-getter, she said. Even that day, though, she said, she heard that Romney’s chosen delegates were being advised they should plan to go to Tampa.
The Paul delegates were going to be challenged.
The party has decided not to count the provisional ballots provided to voters whose registration couldn’t be confirmed on the day of the caucuses.
And a Republican challenged on a technicality the election of six Liberty delegates and alternates in Romney’s Congressional district. That challenge was dismissed by the Allocations Committee.
http://ipatriot.com/profiles/blogs/voter-fraud-etc

[revelarts]

There are more instances than this of shady activity, blow it off as sore grapes if you like.
But there has been several fishy items by R party chiefs across the country afraid of a Ron Paul take over.
I'm not going to detail or debate them though i get tired trying to triple prove a points you guys don't want to hear.

but as far as the Pauls camps delagate count i wasn't saying he was going to win i just like to see the Republicans live up to it's principals and half christian ideals by holding a fair vote whoever wins.
I'd like to think i wouldn't have to defend that idea, but i guess i do.


http://www.capitolcolumn.com/news/ron-paul-faithful-nebraska-or-bust/

[revelarts]

interesting

Nebraska GOP hires security for state convention

July 07, 2012 11:00 pm • MARGERY A. BECK Associated Press (http://siouxcityjournal.com/search/?l=50&sd=desc&s=start_time&f=html&byline=MARGERY%20A.%20BECK%0AAssociated%20Press)

(3) Comments (http://siouxcityjournal.com/ap/politics/nebraska-gop-hires-security-for-state-convention/article_4244033a-e9d9-51a4-bcba-8044b857707d.html#comments)

<aside id="asset-related" class="grid_3 right">

(http://siouxcityjournal.com/content/tncms/live/#)

</aside> OMAHA | The rift within the Nebraska Republican Party pitting the establishment against Ron Paul supporters has widened following a power struggle that led the party chairman to reverse course on stepping down and party officials to double security for the upcoming convention.
Nebraska GOP Executive Director Jordan McGrain said he has, for the first time, hired security for the July 14 convention in Grand Island. McGrain hopes to quash any disruptions like those at other state conventions, where disputes between supporters of presidential candidate Mitt Romney and Paul resulted in shouting matches, brawling and — in Louisiana — delegates being carted off by police.
McGrain said he does not expect Nebraska delegates to cause disruptions, but fears Paul supporters from other states might.
"It was certainly expressed to us from delegations from Nevada, Louisiana and Iowa that whatever we were intending to do for security for the Nebraska convention, to double our efforts," McGrain said. "We have the benefit of hindsight."
Paul, a Texas congressman, stopped actively campaigning in May, but his supporters are still trying to win delegates in an effort to get his name into nomination at the GOP national convention next month in Tampa, Fla.
And Paul supporters have one last shot at achieving that — in Nebraska, the last state to hold its GOP convention. Paul needs a majority of delegates in five states, and McGrain noted that he has four: Iowa, Maine, Minnesota and Louisiana.
"It's just the reality of the situation and where we fall on the calendar that we've become the battleground to place Ron Paul's name into nomination at the national convention," McGrain said.
Laura Ebke, chairwoman of the Nebraska Republic Liberty Caucus that has led the effort to garner Paul delegates, said no disruption is planned "unless the party instigates something."
"There have been instances around the country where there have been some scuffles," Ebke said. "But all of them that I know of have taken place as a result of the party failing to follow its own rules."
McGrain said the hired security will ensure that only registered delegates are seated on the convention floor. There will be other designated areas for alternates and guests.
"To the extent that outsiders, third-parties come in here and agitate and try to disrupt our convention — we're not going to tolerate that," said Nebraska GOP Chairman Mark Fahleson.
The Nebraska Republican Party is already experiencing a contentious divide. At local county conventions last month, Paul supporters and tea party advocates were successful in earning state delegate slots. The state convention will chose from among them to fill the state's 32 national delegate slots.
State GOP leadership is quick to note that even if all 32 were to cast votes for someone other than Romney, he is in no danger of losing the nomination — he already has more than the 1,144 delegates needed to win the nomination.
But they acknowledge some Nebraska delegates could end up casting votes for Paul.

[jimnyc]

Rev, let's say I agree with you to an extent, that a few shady things have happened, and they could handle things a little better. I'll concede that just to further the discussion. I suppose the next thing would be to vote out those involved in things you disagree with. It's their party, and with that in mind, do you see anything illegal having taken place? Because if so, then there will and should be an investigation.

So is your point to fix a few problems within the GOP, or to cry foul for Ron Paul. Because even with this stuff conceded, he was so destroyed in the primaries that they would have to find he was robbed in nearly every single state - and that might move him to 3rd or 2nd on the tallies. So it's not making a bit of difference at all for Ron Paul and his followers, other than to give them something else to bitch about as to why their candidate lost.

But if your point is in fact to fix things within the GOP, then I would agree with you, and would further state it's not just the GOP, but both major parties and the majority of Washington.