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Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
07-12-2012, 08:20 PM
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/12/12684555-women-in-the-infantry-forget-about-it-says-female-marine-officer?lite


Women in the infantry? Forget about it, says female Marine officer

A Marine second lieutenant hangs on an obstacle course during the Marine Corps' Infantry Officer Course in Quantico, Va. on July 6. Beginning in September, women officer volunteers will participate in the course as part of a study to gauge the feasibility of allowing female Marines to serve in more extensive combat roles.
By Jeff Black, msnbc.com
Come September, a small group of young female Marines will break through one of the last bastions of macho in the U.S. military. They’ll be the first class of female officers to take part in the grueling Infantry Officer Course in Quantico, Va., a test of both physical fitness and mental will that prepares the corps’ future platoon leaders.

All of these women will be volunteers, and their training will be closely watched. The new coed class has sparked suggestions that such training could lead to integrating women in the Marine infantry, with some saying they “would make excellent grunts.”


But at least one female Marine officer, a former college hockey player and battle-tested engineering unit commander still on active duty, says placing women in infantry units is just a bad ideal.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Courtesy of USMC

Capt. Katie Petronio says women have no place in the Marine Corps infantry.
“Infantry is one of those fields we need to leave alone.” Marine Capt. Katie Petronio told msnbc.com.

Petronio was just back from Afghanistan last year — where she worked shoulder to shoulder with infantrymen — when she heard people arguing that it was a violation of rights to restrict women from combat. The rights advocates missed the point, she said.

“It would just keep me up at night when I’d heard these bleeps or opinions,” Petronio said. “I felt if I didn’t do anything about it that my silence was consent and if this would’ve have passed, I wouldn’t have done my due diligence in getting my point across.”

She was compelled to write what became a widely cited article in the privately published Marine Corps Gazette provocatively titled “Get Over It! We Are Not All Created Equal.”



The article details her personal experiences during deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan, making the case that the physical rigors of infantry are not for women.

The Pentagon has changed some of its rules. Women will be permitted in crucial and dangerous jobs closer to the front lines. NBC's Jim Miklaszewski reports.
Stay informed with the latest headlines; sign up for our newsletter

“Can women endure the physical and physiological rigors of sustained combat operations,” she wrote, “and are we willing to accept the attrition and medical issues that go along with integration?”

Even though she was a standout Bowdoin athlete and could bench press 145 pounds and squat 200 pounds, was ranked 4th out of a class of 52 in Officer Candidate School and excelled at Marine Corps fitness tests, Petronio's deployment in combat operations in Iraq and Afghanistan took a brutal toll on her 5-foot-3-inch body.

Related: Pentagon's new rules deploy women closer to combat

In Iraq, she developed severe restless leg syndrome, and a spine injury pressed on her nerves. In Afghanistan she was the senior Marine in her engineering unit working 16-hour days for weeks at a time building patrol bases.


Courtesy of USMC

Marine Corps Capt. Katie Petronio, right, poses with children at Patrol Base Mateen, Afghanistan.
Advertise | AdChoices"By the fifth month into the deployment, I had muscle atrophy in my thighs that was causing me to constantly trip and my legs to buckle with the slightest grade change,” she wrote. “My agility during firefights and mobility on and off vehicles and perimeter walls was seriously hindering my response time and overall capability. It was evident that stress and muscular deterioration was affecting everyone regardless of gender; however, the rate of my deterioration was noticeably faster than that of male Marines and further compounded by gender-specific medical conditions.” She lost 17 pounds on an already lean body.

Her article has supporters and detractors, but Petronio said she’s just relating her own experience to avoid any sort of blanket policy that could end up putting lives in peril.

“People just think I’m just closed minded and I’m a sexist and I’m not looking to expand opportunities for females,” Petronio told msnbc.com. “And that is absolutely not true. There are a lot of jobs in the Marine Corps right now that could be open to females. My big point is there needs to be a distinct line when it comes to the infantry.”

The decades-long debate over changing roles of women in the military reached a turning point in 2011 when Congress directed the Pentagon to take a hard look at policies that restrict female service members. In February, the Defense Department relaxed some restrictions, moving women closer to combat, but a fuller review of combat jobs is under way.

It turns out that though women have fought and died in every American war, and many female troops performed with valor under fire in Iraq and Afghanistan, there is a lack of data to back any service-wide decision on which close-to-combat jobs would ultimately be open to them.

“We needed some data, some good recent Marine Corps data,” Maj. Shawn Haney, a Marine Corps spokeswoman, told msnbc.com. “There’s data from other services and other countries but we’re a little different.”

Even now, about 44 women across the Marine Corps are serving in jobs normally closed to women as part of the research program, Haney said.


Should women take more leadership roles and even more combat roles in our military?--Tyr

Gaffer
07-12-2012, 08:53 PM
Allowing them in combat support roles and working at the front I have no problem with. Making them infantry I don't agree with at all. They are at least researching it, but it may cost or ruin some lives in the process.

jafar00
07-12-2012, 11:58 PM
I can see it now.

Female infantry soldier is injured in battle.
.....
Male field medic comes to treat the life threatening wound
......
Medic recites a legally required disclosure that he is going to touch her for the purpose of treating a would sustained in combat and that at no time should such contact be considered to be sexual in nature nor is there any intention on having contact of a sexual nature in the course of treating the wound. Should exposure of breasts or private parts occur during the procedure such exposure should be considered totally accidental .... etc.. etc... blah blah
.....
Female soldier dies of blood loss

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
07-13-2012, 06:33 AM
Allowing them in combat support roles and working at the front I have no problem with. Making them infantry I don't agree with at all. They are at least researching it, but it may cost or ruin some lives in the process.

Myself, simply allowing them in the Marines is a no-no. Women arent made for fighting! A man is! A Marine is!-Tyr

CSM
07-13-2012, 06:44 AM
It is my opinion that there are SOME women who could be physically and mentally able to perform combat duties BUT they are the exception. I will say that if (and that is a HUGE "if") a woman can meet ALL the qualifications for a combat role (no watering down because of gender; i.e. if the requirement is 76 pushups for men then it is 76 FULL pushups for women!) then fine, let them rock and roll. I will also say that if women are allowed to serve in combat roles, this country's citizens best be ready to accept the consequences (female casualties, rape by enemy combatants, etc.). Imagine the fun the liberal media will have with those scenarios!

mundame
07-13-2012, 12:00 PM
In my opinion, women who go into the military are completely, totally, out of their minds.

Hello, women are supposed to AVOID large groups of soldiers, not join one!

And then women wonder why there is so much rape in the Army. Darn.

I think women who join the military simply don't have mothers who told them the facts of life.

And besides, why would a woman want to go kill people? Aren't we the ones who take care of children and make homes? I can't see the attraction in running around getting blown up by IEDs and shooting people myself. I guess tastes differ.

CSM
07-13-2012, 12:03 PM
In my opinion, women who go into the military are completely, totally, out of their minds.

Hello, women are supposed to AVOID large groups of soldiers, not join one!

And then women wonder why there is so much rape in the Army. Darn.

I think women who join the military simply don't have mothers who told them the facts of life.

And besides, why would a woman want to go kill people? Aren't we the ones who take care of children and make homes? I can't see the attraction in running around getting blown up by IEDs and shooting people myself. I guess tastes differ.

Seriously???

Kathianne
07-13-2012, 12:07 PM
Seriously???

I would have liked to have given the military a try, was just beginning to open up when I graduated HS. It just wasn't something that was ever presented as a real option.

Today it is and many females are giving the military academies serious looks.

jimnyc
07-13-2012, 12:10 PM
It is my opinion that there are SOME women who could be physically and mentally able to perform combat duties BUT they are the exception. I will say that if (and that is a HUGE "if") a woman can meet ALL the qualifications for a combat role (no watering down because of gender; i.e. if the requirement is 76 pushups for men then it is 76 FULL pushups for women!) then fine, let them rock and roll. I will also say that if women are allowed to serve in combat roles, this country's citizens best be ready to accept the consequences (female casualties, rape by enemy combatants, etc.). Imagine the fun the liberal media will have with those scenarios!

That's kinda my take. A soldier, no gender needed, needs to meet qualifications, and they certainly can't and shouldn't lower these for anyone, man or woman. But if a woman can qualify, let her have the same opportunity. There certainly are women out there who can bury some men when it comes to physical qualifications, but like you, I think they are few and far between.

mundame
07-13-2012, 02:33 PM
Seriously???

Just my opinion, though heartfelt.

No doubt I'm a dinosaur and young women now are like the Chichita soldier on Aliens. :gunner2:

I can remember when women didn't expect to join the Marines; shows how out of it I am..........


Ah, Brave New World.

Roo
07-13-2012, 03:52 PM
Seriously???

I was thinking the same thing :)

As long as there is ZERO lowering of standards I have no problem with them doing this.

Roo
07-13-2012, 04:05 PM
I served with men I did not want to have to depend on for anything...it's not...or it shouldn't be about gender...it should be about ability.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
07-13-2012, 04:14 PM
I served with men I did not want to have to depend on for anything...it's not...or it shouldn't be about gender...it should be about ability.

Sure , if she is more man than she is a she then she may do. If she can shoot well,fight well and able to pick up a fallen wounded soldier ,sling that soldier across her shoulder and grab her weapon then run 50 to a 100 yards with him , let her join and fight.
How many women can do that I ask?-Tyr

Gaffer
07-13-2012, 04:28 PM
Sure , if she is more man than she is a she then she may do. If she can shoot well,fight well and able to pick up a fallen wounded soldier ,sling that soldier across her shoulder and grab her weapon then run 50 to a 100 yards with him , let her join and fight.
How many women can do that I ask?-Tyr

I go you one better. In the infantry you have too walk for miles, days and weeks at a time. You sleep where you stop, you get up in the morning and do it again, day after day. Eat on the go, no bathing for weeks at a time and carrying 40 to 60 pounds on your back the whole time. The long marches are broken by short firefights or long drawn out battles. Sometimes pissing is a matter of rolling on your side to do the business.

Men are fighters and protectors, women are nurturers. That's how we are made. In spite of TV and hollywood.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
07-13-2012, 04:56 PM
I go you one better. In the infantry you have too walk for miles, days and weeks at a time. You sleep where you stop, you get up in the morning and do it again, day after day. Eat on the go, no bathing for weeks at a time and carrying 40 to 60 pounds on your back the whole time. The long marches are broken by short firefights or long drawn out battles. Sometimes pissing is a matter of rolling on your side to do the business.

Men are fighters and protectors, women are nurturers. That's how we are made. In spite of TV and hollywood.

The Dem/Libs would rather believe TV/Hollywood. It fits into their ignorant fantasy world so much better.
Anything to weaken our military is fine with such people. My position is women can be soldiers but only fight stateside if we are ever invaded because if invaded here it is all about survival of the nation as well as survival of the individual soldier. If a female soldier is capture we see a unusual cry to try to free that soldier that isnt there when the POW is male. Should the women be raped etc that cry would be from the Dems to sue for peace etc. Any excuse to surrender is usually fine with them.-Tyr.

Roo
07-13-2012, 05:19 PM
Sure , if she is more man than she is a she then she may do. If she can shoot well,fight well and able to pick up a fallen wounded soldier ,sling that soldier across her shoulder and grab her weapon then run 50 to a 100 yards with him , let her join and fight.
How many women can do that I ask?-Tyr

...and thats it....the person next to you MUST be able to carry you out if need be.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
07-13-2012, 05:56 PM
...and thats it....the person next to you must be able to carry you out if need be.

If she fights that well, shoots that good, can run that fast and far with another person on her shoulder and is that much of a HOSS, let her train and fight.
How many "shemen" LIKE THAT do ya reckon' we can muster from " hibernating in the caves" here bouts ? -;)--Tyr

aboutime
07-13-2012, 09:07 PM
Eventually, in the future of America. If we still have a future, that is.
We will once again find ourselves in another war.
Those who do the normal complaining will complain, while what we have left of a Military will once again be pressed into Defending this Nation.


WAIT A SECOND!
We interrupt this post to bring you a Special Bulletin.

All of our Female Infantry in the Marines, and Army have all formed a mini-union, against the advice of the Pentagon, and the DOD.
As of today. Our Female Infantry is no longer available to serve in a wartime situation due to Monthly Problems which must remain Personal, and Private in order to maintain the discipline required of our ALL FEMALE, TESTICLE-LESS Fighting forces.
THEREFORE....The United States of America, and the Pretend President sworn to Defend our nation have declared...Find somebody else. We have headaches, cramps, Hot flashes, and FLOW problems that will expose our identity, and locations on any battlefield.
TO OUR ENEMIES....You win.

Kathianne
07-13-2012, 11:18 PM
I go you one better. In the infantry you have too walk for miles, days and weeks at a time. You sleep where you stop, you get up in the morning and do it again, day after day. Eat on the go, no bathing for weeks at a time and carrying 40 to 60 pounds on your back the whole time. The long marches are broken by short firefights or long drawn out battles. Sometimes pissing is a matter of rolling on your side to do the business.

Men are fighters and protectors, women are nurturers. That's how we are made. In spite of TV and hollywood.

The woman that the article was about, agrees with you. I wonder how many bothered to read what was written? Even the OP poster.


...But at least one female Marine officer, a former college hockey player and battle-tested engineering unit commander still on active duty, says placing women in infantry units is just a bad idea...

...“Infantry is one of those fields we need to leave alone.” Marine Capt. Katie Petronio told msnbc.com.


Petronio was just back from Afghanistan last year — where she worked shoulder to shoulder with infantrymen — when she heard people arguing that it was a violation of rights to restrict women from combat. The rights advocates missed the point, she said.


“It would just keep me up at night when I’d heard these bleeps or opinions,” Petronio said. “I felt if I didn’t do anything about it that my silence was consent and if this would’ve have passed, I wouldn’t have done my due diligence in getting my point across.”


She was compelled to write what became a widely cited article in the privately published Marine Corps Gazette (http://www.mca-marines.org/gazette/article/get-over-it-we-are-not-all-created-equal) provocatively titled “Get Over It! We Are Not All Created Equal.”

The article details her personal experiences during deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan, making the case that the physical rigors of infantry are not for women.

The Pentagon has changed some of its rules. Women will be permitted in crucial and dangerous jobs closer to the front lines. NBC's Jim Miklaszewski reports.

The article details her personal experiences during deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan, making the case that the physical rigors of infantry are not for women...

Even though she was a standout Bowdoin athlete and could bench press 145 pounds and squat 200 pounds, was ranked 4th out of a class of 52 in Officer Candidate School and excelled at Marine Corps fitness tests, Petronio's deployment in combat operations in Iraq and Afghanistan took a brutal toll on her 5-foot-3-inch body.

In Iraq, she developed severe restless leg syndrome, and a spine injury pressed on her nerves. In Afghanistan she was the senior Marine in her engineering unit working 16-hour days for weeks at a time building patrol bases.


"By the fifth month into the deployment, I had muscle atrophy in my thighs that was causing me to constantly trip and my legs to buckle with the slightest grade change,” she wrote. “My agility during firefights and mobility on and off vehicles and perimeter walls was seriously hindering my response time and overall capability. It was evident that stress and muscular deterioration was affecting everyone regardless of gender; however, the rate of my deterioration was noticeably faster than that of male Marines and further compounded by gender-specific medical conditions.” She lost 17 pounds on an already lean body.


Her article has supporters and detractors, but Petronio said she’s just relating her own experience to avoid any sort of blanket policy that could end up putting lives in peril.


“People just think I’m just closed minded and I’m a sexist and I’m not looking to expand opportunities for females,” Petronio told msnbc.com. “And that is absolutely not true. There are a lot of jobs in the Marine Corps right now that could be open to females. My big point is there needs to be a distinct line when it comes to the infantry.”...

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
07-14-2012, 12:09 PM
The woman that the article was about, agrees with you. I wonder how many bothered to read what was written? Even the OP poster.

I read all the links that I post here. Thats why my suggested restrictions narrow it down to the very few she-gorillas
out there that could qualify if the qualifications were kept in place and possibly even made greater in the long term endurance arena. Which translate to my being against it except for allowing the few true freaks of nature that could equal or surpass a man's fighting abilities in a frontline combat role. With that said, I see not real justification for allowing it myself. That is, unless its to defend our survival on home soil here. -Tyr

Kathianne
07-14-2012, 12:19 PM
I read all the links that I post here. Thats why my suggested restrictions narrow it down to the very few she-gorillas
out there that could qualify if the qualifications were kept in place and possibly even made greater in the long term endurance arena. Which translate to my being against it except for allowing the few true freaks of nature that could equal or surpass a man's fighting abilities in a frontline combat role. With that said, I see not real justification for allowing it myself. That is, unless its to defend our survival on home soil here. -Tyr

Seems she would qualify for one of the 'freaks.' That didn't prevent an escalation of deterioration of her bones, joints, and muscles at a more rapid rate than what occurs in males. We are not all 'equal' in the biological sense. I haven't a problem with women in the military, as long as they meet the same requirements as their male counterparts, (which hasn't always been that case.) Like the Captain though, I agree that reality cannot be ignored and where commonsense says that physically females cannot perform certain actions on the basis needed, with the same reliability as the males, women shouldn't be assigned to those roles.

revelarts
09-05-2012, 10:09 PM
It is my opinion that there are SOME women who could be physically and mentally able to perform combat duties BUT they are the exception. I will say that if (and that is a HUGE "if") a woman can meet ALL the qualifications for a combat role (no watering down because of gender; i.e. if the requirement is 76 pushups for men then it is 76 FULL pushups for women!) then fine, let them rock and roll. I will also say that if women are allowed to serve in combat roles, this country's citizens best be ready to accept the consequences (female casualties, rape by enemy combatants, etc.). Imagine the fun the liberal media will have with those scenarios!

and sadly rape by fellow soldiers.





PENTAGON RELEASES LATEST REPORTS ON SEXUAL ASSAULT IN THE MILITARY
Statistics show rapes and sexual assaults continue unabated, military’s
efforts are proving ineffective.

http://servicewomen.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/DOD-Releases-2011-Report-on-Military-Sexual-Assault.pdf

WASHINGTON, D.C. – Yesterday, the Pentagon’s Sexual Assault Prevention and
Response Office (SAPRO) published the Department of Defense Annual Report on
Sexual Assault in the Military. The 622 page report details sexual assaults from each
branch of the service for fiscal year 2010. The numbers indicate that cases of rape and
sexual assault have not decreased, and that the military is no closer to ending this crisis
in the ranks.
In FY2010, there were 3,158 total reports of sexual assault in the military. The DOD
estimates that this number only represents 13.5% of total assaults in 2010, making the
total number of military rapes and sexual assaults in excess of 19,000 for FY 2010.
“This latest report clearly shows that the military’s response to rape and sexual assault
within its own ranks has been both inadequate and ineffective,” said Anu Bhagwati,
former Marine Corps captain and executive director of the Service Women’s Action
Network. “This crime continues to see massive amounts of underreporting because
victims do not feel the climate is safe to report, and perpetrators are not being brought
to trial in sufficient numbers.”


..."All statistics in this film are from U.S. Government Studies." Otherwise, he feared, nobody would believe it....
20 percent of female veterans have been sexually assaulted while serving in the military. ....
...In "The Invisible War," many women — and a few men — tell their stories. There's a devastating sameness to the accounts: Many of the survivors say they weren't believed, that they suffered reprisals while their attackers received none, that their accusations weren't taken seriously...
http://seattletimes.com/html/movies/2018592849_invisible08.html


Rape in the US military: America's dirty little secret

Rape within the US military (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-military) has become so widespread that it is estimated that a female soldier in Iraq is more likely to be attacked by a fellow soldier than killed by enemy fire (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rep-jane-harman/finally-some-progress-in_b_125504.html). So great is the issue that a group of veterans are suing the Pentagon to force reform. The lawsuit, which includes three men and 25 women (the suit initially involved 17 plaintiffs but grew to 28) who claim to have been subjected to sexual assaults while serving in the armed forces, blames former defence secretaries Donald Rumsfeld and Robert Gates for a culture of punishment against the women and men who report sex crimes and a failure to prosecute the offenders.

Since the lawsuit became public in February, 400 more have come forward, contacting attorney Susan Burke who is leading the case. These are likely to be future lawsuits. Right now they are anxiously awaiting a court ruling to find out if the lawsuit will go to trial. The defence team for the department of defence has filed a motion to dismiss the case, citing a court ruling, dating back to 1950, which states that the government is not liable for injury sustained by active duty personnel. To date, military personnel have been unable to sue their employer....
...

There are too many stories of military rape for the Pentagon to ignore. "This is now a command priority," says a spokesman for the department of defence. "We clearly still have more work to do." But the sheer statistics beg the question: why is rape in the American military so common in the first place? "We looked at the systems for reporting rape within the military of Israel, Australia, Britain and some Scandinavian countries, and found that, unlike the US, other countries take a rape investigation outside the purview of the military," explains Greg Jacob, policy director at the Service Women's Action Network. "In Britain, for example, the investigation is handed over to the civilian police.
"Rape is a universal problem – it happens everywhere. But in other military systems it is regarded as a criminal offence, while in the US military, in many cases, it's considered simply a breach of good conduct. Regularly, a sex offender in the US system goes unpunished, so it proliferates. In the US, the whole reporting procedure is handled – from the investigation to the trial, to the incarceration – in-house. That means the command has an overwhelming influence over what happens. If a commander decides a rape will not get prosecuted, it will not be...


http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/dec/09/rape-us-military
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cadet
09-05-2012, 10:17 PM
I just want point out how much this makes me thing of General Hooker.



For those of you that don't know, he "allowed" (looked the other way) women to come in and give the men something to fight for.
Why not let women join? these guys need something to keep them from polishing each others bazookas.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
09-05-2012, 11:41 PM
I just want point out how much this makes me thing of General Hooker.



For those of you that don't know, he "allowed" (looked the other way) women to come in and give the men something to fight for.
Why not let women join? these guys need something to keep them from polishing each others bazookas.

Keeping moral up is a good thing! Armies even in ancient times had women that serviced the men. However they should not be female soldiers doing that IMHO. It breaks discipline and that is a BAD THANG!--Tyr

gabosaurus
09-05-2012, 11:45 PM
Myself, simply allowing them in the Marines is a no-no. Women arent made for fighting! A man is! A Marine is!-Tyr

That would make you ineligible to be a Marine. :cool:

Men are stronger. Women are smarter and make more rational decisions.

jafar00
09-06-2012, 01:42 AM
That would make you ineligible to be a Marine. :cool:

Men are stronger. Women are smarter and make more rational decisions.

True. The women would probably down arms and invite the enemy over for a cup of tea to discuss their differences like adults because it's the more logical approach.

CSM
09-06-2012, 06:00 AM
True. The women would probably down arms and invite the enemy over for a cup of tea to discuss their differences like adults because it's the more logical approach.

Right. I suppose they will dress up in their fanciest vagina costume for the event.

cadet
09-06-2012, 01:47 PM
True. The women would probably down arms and invite the enemy over for a cup of tea to discuss their differences like adults because it's the more logical approach.

I disagree, if nations were controlled by women and women alone, there would be no wars. Just a lot of back stabbing, grudge holding countries. :laugh:

aboutime
09-06-2012, 03:18 PM
I disagree, if nations were controlled by women and women alone, there would be no wars. Just a lot of back stabbing, grudge holding countries. :laugh:


cadet. Sounds like You, and jafar have never met a MARINE in person. Not just any typical Marine, but a Female Marine. For if you had. And they knew the two of you viewed them as you do. I'd pay to watch that MARINE defend Her Honor...up close, and in person.

aboutime
09-06-2012, 03:23 PM
That would make you ineligible to be a Marine. :cool:

Men are stronger. Women are smarter and make more rational decisions.


gabby. Speaking from where you sit again, I see. Guess you've never been involved with any aspect of the military. And I do not mean relatives who may have served. But actually served alongside a Female in a Navy, Army, Marine, Air Force, or Coast Guard uniform.

Even they know their limitations, mentally, and physically during times of extreme danger...as in Combat, and those Rational Decisions are TOO LATE if they are made on the battlefield when the bullets are flying, rocket propelled granades are heading your way. Rationality has no place where Life and Death are in the air.

cadet
09-06-2012, 03:32 PM
cadet. Sounds like You, and jafar have never met a MARINE in person. Not just any typical Marine, but a Female Marine. For if you had. And they knew the two of you viewed them as you do. I'd pay to watch that MARINE defend Her Honor...up close, and in person.

Have so! My professor is a former marine. Nicest guy i've ever met. I wouldn't screw with him though. :laugh:

Trigg
09-06-2012, 03:35 PM
Women should not be on the front lines in infantry positions.

People need to accept that there ARE differences between men and women. I'd think that would be obvious to most people, but apparently not.

aboutime
09-06-2012, 03:38 PM
Have so! My professor is a former marine. Nicest guy i've ever met. I wouldn't screw with him though. :laugh:


Your professor IS NOT a Former Female Marine. Try telling a Female Marine what you and your professor think.

jafar00
09-06-2012, 04:21 PM
I disagree, if nations were controlled by women and women alone, there would be no wars. Just a lot of back stabbing, grudge holding countries. :laugh:

I'd hate to be there when two of them turn up to a summit in the same dress! :)


cadet. Sounds like You, and jafar have never met a MARINE in person. Not just any typical Marine, but a Female Marine. For if you had. And they knew the two of you viewed them as you do. I'd pay to watch that MARINE defend Her Honor...up close, and in person.

I used to help train SAS soldiers. I guess they are similar to marines?


Women should not be on the front lines in infantry positions.

People need to accept that there ARE differences between men and women. I'd think that would be obvious to most people, but apparently not.

The last thing you need is for a male marine to be checking out the shapely ass of the female marine in front of him instead of keeping an eye out for the enemy.

jimnyc
09-06-2012, 05:58 PM
Women in the military would be just fine, so long as they all look like Ziva David. Granted, she was Mossad, but her accent just added to it. :)

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_yWkjvP4wNZU/S2wmlOno1PI/AAAAAAAAAA8/KUJ3yvLl7QY/s320/ziva.jpg

Voted4Reagan
09-06-2012, 08:28 PM
I'm All for Women Marines.....

Tell me of a man that can bleed continuously for 7 days and Still live?

Let em Fight...

CSM
10-16-2012, 12:31 PM
Guess it aint working out so well:

USMC drops second female from infantry course<FORM id=hidden> </FORM>
The Marine Corps’ effort to evaluate whether more combat jobs should open to women marked another milestone last week when the second of two female volunteers washed out of infantry officer training.


http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2012/10/marine-corps-womem-infantry-officers-course-101512/

Robert A Whit
10-16-2012, 01:10 PM
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/12/12684555-women-in-the-infantry-forget-about-it-says-female-marine-officer?lite


Women in the infantry? Forget about it, says female Marine officer

A Marine second lieutenant hangs on an obstacle course during the Marine Corps' Infantry Officer Course in Quantico, Va. on July 6. Beginning in September, women officer volunteers will participate in the course as part of a study to gauge the feasibility of allowing female Marines to serve in more extensive combat roles.
By Jeff Black, msnbc.com
Come September, a small group of young female Marines will break through one of the last bastions of macho in the U.S. military. They’ll be the first class of female officers to take part in the grueling Infantry Officer Course in Quantico, Va., a test of both physical fitness and mental will that prepares the corps’ future platoon leaders.

All of these women will be volunteers, and their training will be closely watched. The new coed class has sparked suggestions that such training could lead to integrating women in the Marine infantry, with some saying they “would make excellent grunts.”


But at least one female Marine officer, a former college hockey player and battle-tested engineering unit commander still on active duty, says placing women in infantry units is just a bad ideal.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Courtesy of USMC

Capt. Katie Petronio says women have no place in the Marine Corps infantry.
“Infantry is one of those fields we need to leave alone.” Marine Capt. Katie Petronio told msnbc.com.

Petronio was just back from Afghanistan last year — where she worked shoulder to shoulder with infantrymen — when she heard people arguing that it was a violation of rights to restrict women from combat. The rights advocates missed the point, she said.

“It would just keep me up at night when I’d heard these bleeps or opinions,” Petronio said. “I felt if I didn’t do anything about it that my silence was consent and if this would’ve have passed, I wouldn’t have done my due diligence in getting my point across.”

She was compelled to write what became a widely cited article in the privately published Marine Corps Gazette provocatively titled “Get Over It! We Are Not All Created Equal.”



The article details her personal experiences during deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan, making the case that the physical rigors of infantry are not for women.

The Pentagon has changed some of its rules. Women will be permitted in crucial and dangerous jobs closer to the front lines. NBC's Jim Miklaszewski reports.
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“Can women endure the physical and physiological rigors of sustained combat operations,” she wrote, “and are we willing to accept the attrition and medical issues that go along with integration?”

Even though she was a standout Bowdoin athlete and could bench press 145 pounds and squat 200 pounds, was ranked 4th out of a class of 52 in Officer Candidate School and excelled at Marine Corps fitness tests, Petronio's deployment in combat operations in Iraq and Afghanistan took a brutal toll on her 5-foot-3-inch body.

Related: Pentagon's new rules deploy women closer to combat

In Iraq, she developed severe restless leg syndrome, and a spine injury pressed on her nerves. In Afghanistan she was the senior Marine in her engineering unit working 16-hour days for weeks at a time building patrol bases.


Courtesy of USMC

Marine Corps Capt. Katie Petronio, right, poses with children at Patrol Base Mateen, Afghanistan.
Advertise | AdChoices"By the fifth month into the deployment, I had muscle atrophy in my thighs that was causing me to constantly trip and my legs to buckle with the slightest grade change,” she wrote. “My agility during firefights and mobility on and off vehicles and perimeter walls was seriously hindering my response time and overall capability. It was evident that stress and muscular deterioration was affecting everyone regardless of gender; however, the rate of my deterioration was noticeably faster than that of male Marines and further compounded by gender-specific medical conditions.” She lost 17 pounds on an already lean body.

Her article has supporters and detractors, but Petronio said she’s just relating her own experience to avoid any sort of blanket policy that could end up putting lives in peril.

“People just think I’m just closed minded and I’m a sexist and I’m not looking to expand opportunities for females,” Petronio told msnbc.com. “And that is absolutely not true. There are a lot of jobs in the Marine Corps right now that could be open to females. My big point is there needs to be a distinct line when it comes to the infantry.”

The decades-long debate over changing roles of women in the military reached a turning point in 2011 when Congress directed the Pentagon to take a hard look at policies that restrict female service members. In February, the Defense Department relaxed some restrictions, moving women closer to combat, but a fuller review of combat jobs is under way.

It turns out that though women have fought and died in every American war, and many female troops performed with valor under fire in Iraq and Afghanistan, there is a lack of data to back any service-wide decision on which close-to-combat jobs would ultimately be open to them.

“We needed some data, some good recent Marine Corps data,” Maj. Shawn Haney, a Marine Corps spokeswoman, told msnbc.com. “There’s data from other services and other countries but we’re a little different.”

Even now, about 44 women across the Marine Corps are serving in jobs normally closed to women as part of the research program, Haney said.


Should women take more leadership roles and even more combat roles in our military?--Tyr

I am former infantry and have a few things to say. She is correct. Women do not belong in the infantry.

Not that I have anything against women. But how can women's special needs be taken care of in combat? While it is true a man can pee in the open and by vehicles, what woman wants to do that?

I remember some of the weak men who couild not take infantry. We got rid of them. By we I mean the Army did.

Remember that tv series called MASH and that dufus who dressed in women's clothes? How would you like having him defend this nation?

While women in combat airplanes have done well, the infantry is not only deadly, but it takes a toll on the human body unlike flying an airplane.

I hate to see women killed. But that is not my sole reasoning. The infantry job is physically hell. Men fail. Enough men do make it that the mission will ordinarily get done. If a woman wants to tie in combat, she may wish to be in a tank. The tank won't get tired.

Also, by women being arouind so many men, often not being watched, too many women are NOW bringing up that they get raped.

Why subject themselves to such treatment?

Stay out of the infantry. Women are awesome. But not in the infantry.

Voted4Reagan
10-16-2012, 01:15 PM
any soldier that can bleed for 7 days a month continuously without dying is certainly Marine Material... Let em Fight

gabosaurus
10-16-2012, 01:24 PM
I have to agree that women are often not physically fit for infantry positions. They are better suited for military intelligence and as commanding officers.

One of our ROTC commanders told me a story from he worked at the Marine base in San Diego. A lower ranking officer spouted off to a female superior and she responded with more curse-laden venom than he knew existed. :laugh:

CSM
10-16-2012, 01:57 PM
I have to agree that women are often not physically fit for infantry positions. They are better suited for military intelligence and as commanding officers.

One of our ROTC commanders told me a story from he worked at the Marine base in San Diego. A lower ranking officer spouted off to a female superior and she responded with more curse-laden venom than he knew existed. :laugh:

There are many many jobs in the military that women are suited for (some are command positions) ranging from intel analyst to sperm collector. Combat is secondary or even tertiary to all of them for women. That being said, there are some men that are not suited for combat as well.

Robert A Whit
10-16-2012, 01:57 PM
any soldier that can bleed for 7 days a month continuously without dying is certainly Marine Material... Let em Fight

BAD joke. I believe you are kidding around.

Robert A Whit
10-16-2012, 02:03 PM
I have to agree that women are often not physically fit for infantry positions. They are better suited for military intelligence and as commanding officers.

One of our ROTC commanders told me a story from he worked at the Marine base in San Diego. A lower ranking officer spouted off to a female superior and she responded with more curse-laden venom than he knew existed. :laugh:

They do not belong in commanding positions over the infantry. Leaders must already have done the hard stuff. Best done in combat. Women do not belong in infantry units at any level.

Women could do many jobs in the military. Women are not inferior, they simply were not handed the physical stuff that combat in the infantry demands. That should be fine with women since Men also lack things that women have. Women are a lot more caring than men when it comes to injury of humans. I being a man don't resent that they simply are more caring. They make damned good doctors and nurses. But trying to prove something by being in the infantry?

What the hell for?

aboutime
10-16-2012, 02:18 PM
Just reading the last, several posts about Women in the Infantry, or Marines is totally expected, and identifies those who have NEVER been in uniform, or on the front lines in a real, fighting war....where PAINTBALLS were not the ammo.

All of you Monday Morning QB's need to make a visit to the nearest Military base. Be it Naval, Army, Marine, or Air Force base, and go out of your way to come face to face with any Female in Uniform, other than new Recruits. Ask them WHY they wear the uniform, and how qualified they are to take part in an Infantry brigade, as a Fighting, Weapon holding, Member of the military.

Speak to them, face to face, and tell them how much you disagree with them. DEFENDING THEIR NATION, while you whine, and complain about them NOT being physically able to BEAT THE CRAP out of you.

Robert A Whit
10-16-2012, 02:24 PM
Just reading the last, several posts about Women in the Infantry, or Marines is totally expected, and identifies those who have NEVER been in uniform, or on the front lines in a real, fighting war....where PAINTBALLS were not the ammo.

All of you Monday Morning QB's need to make a visit to the nearest Military base. Be it Naval, Army, Marine, or Air Force base, and go out of your way to come face to face with any Female in Uniform, other than new Recruits. Ask them WHY they wear the uniform, and how qualified they are to take part in an Infantry brigade, as a Fighting, Weapon holding, Member of the military.

Speak to them, face to face, and tell them how much you disagree with them. DEFENDING THEIR NATION, while you whine, and complain about them NOT being physically able to BEAT THE CRAP out of you.

I suppose if you really want a lot of women being blasted to hell and back by IEDS you want them in combat. I prefer to let men get the most of the damage.

aboutime
10-16-2012, 02:44 PM
I suppose if you really want a lot of women being blasted to hell and back by IEDS you want them in combat. I prefer to let men get the most of the damage.

Robert. Of course not. Same as I don't want Men being blasted to hell and back. But. The reality is. Before I retired from the navy in 1995, the military was increasing the number of women in uniform, even on ships, and in the Marine Corps as well, and the Army too!

You seem to underestimate women today, just as I did many, many years ago when I thought it was a huge mistake, allowing women to put on working uniforms where they might get DIRTY, or HURT....since GOD FORBID. Someone would join the military, and then find out THEY ARE EXPECTED TO PUT THEIR LIFE ON THE LINE....defending PEOPLE like you.

Robert A Whit
10-16-2012, 02:49 PM
Robert. Of course not. Same as I don't want Men being blasted to hell and back. But. The reality is. Before I retired from the navy in 1995, the military was increasing the number of women in uniform, even on ships, and in the Marine Corps as well, and the Army too!

You seem to underestimate women today, just as I did many, many years ago when I thought it was a huge mistake, allowing women to put on working uniforms where they might get DIRTY, or HURT....since GOD FORBID. Someone would join the military, and then find out THEY ARE EXPECTED TO PUT THEIR LIFE ON THE LINE....defending PEOPLE like you.

Look, I said in other posts that I really like women. You were NAVY yet I was INFANTRY.

Though I was fortunate to not be in combat, I trained infantry. I would have loved to find some woman in the Infantry when I was in to play with. At that age, men want women to play with.

This is why so many women currently serving get pregnant and a lot more state they got raped.

But to carry out a mission where a lot of stamina and hard work had to be done?

Look, you may well wish to send out skirts to defend you.

People like me defended YOU before you got into the Navy I suspect.

aboutime
10-16-2012, 02:58 PM
Look, I said in other posts that I really like women. You were NAVY yet I was INFANTRY.

Though I was fortunate to not be in combat, I trained infantry. I would have loved to find some woman in the Infantry when I was in to play with. At that age, men want women to play with.

This is why so many women currently serving get pregnant and a lot more state they got raped.

But to carry out a mission where a lot of stamina and hard work had to be done?

Look, you may well wish to send out skirts to defend you.

People like me defended YOU before you got into the Navy I suspect.


Maybe you did. My first day in the navy was May 15, 1964, and that has nothing to do with the topic here.
The fact you call them SKIRTS tells me you are probably older than I. But still has nothing to do with Women Today, in the military.

Even I know. Change is hard to accept. But I respect, and accepted the female sailors whom I trained, and served with on long deployments at sea. AND NO....they don't all JOIN to get Pregnant. That's just an ARCHIE BUNKER kind of excuse to play games with your hatred of anyone who disagree's with you.

Robert A Whit
10-16-2012, 03:35 PM
Maybe you did. My first day in the navy was May 15, 1964, and that has nothing to do with the topic here.
The fact you call them SKIRTS tells me you are probably older than I. But still has nothing to do with Women Today, in the military.

Even I know. Change is hard to accept. But I respect, and accepted the female sailors whom I trained, and served with on long deployments at sea. AND NO....they don't all JOIN to get Pregnant. That's just an ARCHIE BUNKER kind of excuse to play games with your hatred of anyone who disagree's with you.

I spent my final day in the Army on or about Feb 1 of 1964 so I defended you before you entered the Navy. I have had some prior and then current Navy people as clients and believe they were to a man outstanding people. I am certain that not all girls or women if they are fully mature, join to get raped. I do believe that to many women, especially right now, believe the sex they know they will get will make them quite happy.

Now you have me HATING posters who don't agree with me. ROFLMAO :salute:

No, I don't hate people. I hate bad ideas. Since you were NAVY and my only topic was INFANTRY, which you did not serve in, keep in mind as you toot your horn, I also said a woman combat pilot was fine with me. I am thinking in fact of a woman combat pilot in the Navy. She, as I explained sits on her butt and flies. It is not so much that my sense of chivalry towards woman is my reason but the practical stuff all Infantry men are thinking as they fight their way up cliffs or try to use those muscles to do something real hard.

I also said I love women. But of course that does not matter to you does it?

Did you train women who ran faster than you could run at the time? Did any of those woman impress you that you figured she could clean your clock?

aboutime
10-16-2012, 03:43 PM
I spent my final day in the Army on or about Feb 1 of 1964 so I defended you before you entered the Navy. I have had some prior and then current Navy people as clients and believe they were to a man outstanding people. I am certain that not all girls or women if they are fully mature, join to get raped. I do believe that to many women, especially right now, believe the sex they know they will get will make them quite happy.

Now you have me HATING posters who don't agree with me. ROFLMAO :salute:

No, I don't hate people. I hate bad ideas. Since you were NAVY and my only topic was INFANTRY, which you did not serve in, keep in mind as you toot your horn, I also said a woman combat pilot was fine with me. I am thinking in fact of a woman combat pilot in the Navy. She, as I explained sits on her butt and flies. It is not so much that my sense of chivalry towards woman is my reason but the practical stuff all Infantry men are thinking as they fight their way up cliffs or try to use those muscles to do something real hard.

I also said I love women. But of course that does not matter to you does it?

Did you train women who ran faster than you could run at the time? Did any of those woman impress you that you figured she could clean your clock?

Don't know why I am bothering to answer you but. In response to your last question. YES. I happened to train several women who were younger than I, and they ALL ran much faster than I did. And yes. Being younger than me. Most all of them could have cleaned my clock if they wanted. Difference is. I wasn't training them to be combat ready, or hand-to-hand combat. There's very little of that kind of stuff taking place aboard ship in communications suites.

If you feel like you are John Wayne. Fine with me. As for you judging me about women. My wife of nearly 44 years has never complained about what I believe matters.
So. If you are looking for someone to compare...whatever you feel a need to compare here....to make me look dumb. Keep looking. I have no need to pick a fight with you, or anyone else here.
The topic was women in combat. Looks like we've worn that out now.

Robert A Whit
10-16-2012, 04:56 PM
Don't know why I am bothering to answer you but. In response to your last question. YES. I happened to train several women who were younger than I, and they ALL ran much faster than I did. And yes. Being younger than me. Most all of them could have cleaned my clock if they wanted. Difference is. I wasn't training them to be combat ready, or hand-to-hand combat. There's very little of that kind of stuff taking place aboard ship in communications suites.

If you feel like you are John Wayne. Fine with me. As for you judging me about women. My wife of nearly 44 years has never complained about what I believe matters.
So. If you are looking for someone to compare...whatever you feel a need to compare here....to make me look dumb. Keep looking. I have no need to pick a fight with you, or anyone else here.
The topic was women in combat. Looks like we've worn that out now.

You answred me because you had made some FALSE statements about ME and I cleared them up. I denied your FALSE remarks were true. Look, sounds to me like you retired from the Navy. And as you claim, you did not train them for infantry operations. I am sure that some tough women exist and once the man gets pretty old in years, he is not the tough guy he was when he got into the navy.

I reject your claim I judged you about women. I am not at all like a movie star. I am not trying to make you look dumb. I am trying to reject the crappy things you said about me that raised my hackles.

Normally the men doing the hardest work in combat are the younger people. As our miltitary ages, and it is, they rely much more on electronics and tactics. And of course more of the infantry is mechanized. They ride to war in light vehicles or maybe in tanks. Even when I was in the Army, we did not march so much in Germany as we used trucks and jeeps. And of course the trusty M110 armored personel carrier.

But once you get out of those vehicles, the fact is that a lot of women would puke before heading to death. I respect women. I even respect you though you sure tried to clean my clock. I expect we both have not much respect for Obama.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
10-16-2012, 05:34 PM
You answred me because you had made some FALSE statements about ME and I cleared them up. I denied your FALSE remarks were true. Look, sounds to me like you retired from the Navy. And as you claim, you did not train them for infantry operations. I am sure that some tough women exist and once the man gets pretty old in years, he is not the tough guy he was when he got into the navy.

I reject your claim I judged you about women. I am not at all like a movie star. I am not trying to make you look dumb. I am trying to reject the crappy things you said about me that raised my hackles.

Normally the men doing the hardest work in combat are the younger people. As our miltitary ages, and it is, they rely much more on electronics and tactics. And of course more of the infantry is mechanized. They ride to war in light vehicles or maybe in tanks. Even when I was in the Army, we did not march so much in Germany as we used trucks and jeeps. And of course the trusty M110 armored personel carrier.

But once you get out of those vehicles, the fact is that a lot of women would puke before heading to death. I respect women. I even respect you though you sure tried to clean my clock. I expect we both have not much respect for Obama.

You two strike me as two older men with similiar views in life. Aboutime I know and respect for many reasons. You two should attempt a restart IMHO.. My 2 cents for what its worth.-TYR

Robert A Whit
10-16-2012, 05:40 PM
You two strike me as two older men with similiar views in life. Aboutime I know and respect for many reasons. You two should attempt a restart IMHO.. My 2 cents for what its worth.-TYR

Yup, I believe we are much closer than distant. I don't know why he jumped me but I end up replying. I respect his opinions. It would be nice if he respected mine.

I was speaking of one issue, women in combat in the Infantry.

Now, I was not speaking of women serving on ships. That is his area of expertise.

aboutime
10-16-2012, 07:32 PM
Robert. My apologies for jumping the gun here. As Mr. Reagan once said. (KINDA)
"I will not allow your seniority to overrule my immaturity."

We got off on the wrong foot here. I tend to be overly protective, based on places I've been...here on the Internet.

I salute you for your service...HONEST I DO!

Robert A Whit
10-16-2012, 07:46 PM
Robert. My apologies for jumping the gun here. As Mr. Reagan once said. (KINDA)
"I will not allow your seniority to overrule my immaturity."

We got off on the wrong foot here. I tend to be overly protective, based on places I've been...here on the Internet.

I salute you for your service...HONEST I DO!

Thank you very much. I like the cut of your jib. I too salute you for your service. I too am protective of women and appreciate them more than you may realize.

I see you thank me on many posts. I figured something was all out out tilt. I believe we are on the same track. :lol:

CSM
10-17-2012, 06:15 AM
Just reading the last, several posts about Women in the Infantry, or Marines is totally expected, and identifies those who have NEVER been in uniform, or on the front lines in a real, fighting war....where PAINTBALLS were not the ammo.

All of you Monday Morning QB's need to make a visit to the nearest Military base. Be it Naval, Army, Marine, or Air Force base, and go out of your way to come face to face with any Female in Uniform, other than new Recruits. Ask them WHY they wear the uniform, and how qualified they are to take part in an Infantry brigade, as a Fighting, Weapon holding, Member of the military.

Speak to them, face to face, and tell them how much you disagree with them. DEFENDING THEIR NATION, while you whine, and complain about them NOT being physically able to BEAT THE CRAP out of you.

I have indeed been in uniform, on the front lines in a real fighting war with no paintballs in within 5,000 miles. I have been on many military bases of all the Services and been face to face with many females in uniform. I have even had the privilege to lead some very fine female soldiers. I know darn well what the requirements and standards are for ANYONE to engage in combat and what criteria they need to meet or exceed to stay alive and accomplish the mission on the battlefield. I am most certain that MOST (not all; there are always exceptions) female combatants CANNOT meet those standards and requirements over a sustained period. I am not whining or complaining, merely pointing out the facts. Do not misconstrue what I am saying here; if a female soldier can meet all the UNALTERED requirements to perform ALL the tasks of an infantryman, there is no reason why they should not be allowed to fill that role. My problem is that in most cases, the standards and requirements are adjusted to compensate for the female soldiers which allow them to fill roles for which they would otherwise not qualify. Those adjustments put other soldiers and themselves at unnecessary risk.

All that being said, I say the same for male soldiers. If they cannot meet the standards they don't belong in combat .... period.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
10-17-2012, 08:23 AM
I have indeed been in uniform, on the front lines in a real fighting war with no paintballs in within 5,000 miles. I have been on many military bases of all the Services and been face to face with many females in uniform. I have even had the privilege to lead some very fine female soldiers. I know darn well what the requirements and standards are for ANYONE to engage in combat and what criteria they need to meet or exceed to stay alive and accomplish the mission on the battlefield. I am most certain that MOST (not all; there are always exceptions) female combatants CANNOT meet those standards and requirements over a sustained period. I am not whining or complaining, merely pointing out the facts. Do not misconstrue what I am saying here; if a female soldier can meet all the UNALTERED requirements to perform ALL the tasks of an infantryman, there is no reason why they should not be allowed to fill that role. My problem is that in most cases, the standards and requirements are adjusted to compensate for the female soldiers which allow them to fill roles for which they would otherwise not qualify. Those adjustments put other soldiers and themselves at unnecessary risk.

All that being said, I say the same for male soldiers. If they cannot meet the standards they don't belong in combat .... period.

I agree, only the women that are strong enough, fast enough and mean enough to kill and do so ruthlessly when required should be in the infantry. As to serving in the Navy aboard ship its a bit difference there the roles are not primarily face to face combat as is often the case in the Infantry. Navy , I have no problem with females serving but the very ideal that they should serve in the USMC infantry is silly as hell IMHO. Call me old fashioned, I dont care but women in front line roles in the military should only be as a desperate last resort unless they are Israeli--where it is already a desperate requirement because of the survival need!.. -Tyr

Gaffer
10-17-2012, 08:54 AM
I was in the infantry. I was also in combat many times. A woman could not do what I did in the jungles of Vietnam. I don't care how physically fit she is. Women can do 95% of the jobs in the military with no problem, including driving combat vehicles. They also need to be trained in combat because even the the most rear echelon clerk could find themselves in combat.

A woman wouldn't have lasted a day with me in Vietnam let alone weeks at a time.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
10-17-2012, 09:17 AM
I was in the infantry. I was also in combat many times. A woman could not do what I did in the jungles of Vietnam. I don't care how physically fit she is. Women can do 95% of the jobs in the military with no problem, including driving combat vehicles. They also need to be trained in combat because even the the most rear echelon clerk could find themselves in combat.

A woman wouldn't have lasted a day with me in Vietnam let alone weeks at a time.

I was not in combat nor in Vietnam but I've had many close friends that were over these many years and from what I've learned from them tells me that your statement is 110% true. MY BEST FRIEND AS A YOUNG MAN WAS AN OLDER MAN THAT WAS A USMC KOREAN WAR VETERAN AND HE LIKE THE VIETNAM WAR VETS HELD THAT COMBAT ROLES WERE NO PLACE FOR WOMEN! The guy was a very decorated war hero and one of the most honorable men that I've ever known. No nonsense kind of guy that lived thru war and his wildside when a young man.
I still use his line about azzhats,bullshatters and typical dumbass lying cowards of all stripes == "ffkk 'em feed 'em fishheads"! Best line I have ever heard.. and the man knew what he was talking about. He was the first guy to tell me don't believe the bullshit being spit out about our Vietnam veterans, they are ever bit as brave , honorable and good as were our WW2 VETS. I've never forgot the man or his many wise words!! -Tyr

aboutime
10-17-2012, 02:21 PM
I was in the infantry. I was also in combat many times. A woman could not do what I did in the jungles of Vietnam. I don't care how physically fit she is. Women can do 95% of the jobs in the military with no problem, including driving combat vehicles. They also need to be trained in combat because even the the most rear echelon clerk could find themselves in combat.

A woman wouldn't have lasted a day with me in Vietnam let alone weeks at a time.

Gaffer....Welcome Home! That said. I totally agree with you about how a woman could not do what you did in the jungles of Vietnam.
On the other side of that statement. I can say that I served with many younger women while I was on active duty in the Navy, who had personal needs to outshine, and outperform their male counterparts. And they did quite well.
Of course, the only Female Marines I had occasion to meet, were assigned to Marine Corps Detachments that were...at the time, being deployed...on non-combat types of assignments in Granada, and during Operation Desert Shield, and Storm in 1990-91 as they did many of the same jobs Males normally were assigned to do. And NOT ONCE, did I meet any Female Marine who was physically Unable to perform any of the training geared toward combat with weapons, or physical challenges.

I would be lying if I didn't admit...Many of those Females in both the Navy, and Marines....totally outlasted, and performed many of us males during that time. It just became a reality they felt they needed to demonstrate in order to Advance in rank with male competition.
At no time would I ever attempt to PUT YOU, or any other Vietnam, or other Male Veteran down...just to make a simple point.
But what ALL OF US must now understand is. Times, people, principles, and mentality has been changed...slowly...yes. But changed, none-the-less.
No longer is the military WE ONCE KNEW a place where we knew Females got pregnant in order to get out of deployments, or duties. That's just not the nature of our ALL VOLUNTEER forces anymore.

I'd love to come here and just agree with everything WE have learned, and seen while in uniform. But doing so would be dishonest, and make me a hypocrite by pretending the Changes are not, and should not be taking place.

Noir
10-17-2012, 02:26 PM
If someone passes the tests required, sex shouldn't be an issue.

aboutime
10-17-2012, 02:32 PM
If someone passes the tests required, sex shouldn't be an issue.

Noir. For once. We have found something to agree upon.

That is EXACTLY how the present U.S. Military determines whether males, or females get to wear the uniform.

Nothing more. Nothing less.