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Kathianne
08-15-2012, 08:17 PM
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2011/dec/20/lie-year-democrats-claims-republicans-voted-end-me/


...PolitiFact debunked the Medicare charge in nine separate fact-checks rated False or Pants on Fire, most often in attacks leveled against Republican House members.

Now, PolitiFact has chosen the Democrats’ claim as the 2011 Lie of the Year.

It’s the third year in a row that a health care claim has won the dubious honor. In 2009, the winner was the Republicans’ charge that the Democrats’ health care plan included "death panels." In 2010, it was that the plan was a "government takeover of health care."

A complicated and wonky subject with life-or-death consequences, health care is fertile ground for falsehoods. The Democratic attack about "ending Medicare" was a pervasive line in 2011 that preyed on seniors' worries about whether they could afford health care.

Even when explained accurately, the Republicans’ Medicare plan was not particularly popular with the public, nor with some independent health policy analysts. But the plan was distorted and attacked again and again.

"In terms of creating a national conversation about fiscal reform, the last thing we need is demagoguing attacks against people who have put forward serious policy proposals," said Jason Peuquet, a policy analyst with the bipartisan Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget. "It’s very worrying."

A persistent falsehood

With a few small tweaks to their attack lines, Democrats could have been factually correct, said Norman Ornstein, a resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute, a conservative think tank. "I actually think there is no need to cut out the qualifiers and exaggerate," he said.

At times, Democrats and liberal groups were careful to characterize the Republican plan more accurately.

Another claim in the ad from the Agenda Project said the plan would "privatize" Medicare (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/may/25/agenda-project/throw-granny-cliff-ad-says-paul-ryan-plan-would-pr/), which received a Mostly True rating from PolitiFact. President Barack Obama was also more precise with his words, saying the Medicare proposal "would voucherize the program and you potentially have senior citizens paying $6,000 more."

But more often, Democrats and liberals overreached:

• They ignored the fact that the Ryan plan would not affect people currently in Medicare -- or even the people 55 to 65 who would join the program in the next 10 years.

• They used harsh terms such as "end" and "kill" when the program would still exist, although in a privatized system.

• They used pictures and video of elderly people who clearly were too old to be affected by the Ryan plan. The DCCC video that aired four days after the vote featured an elderly man who had to take a job as a stripper to pay his medical bills.
...

Little-Acorn
08-16-2012, 12:16 PM
I feel sorry for Politifact when it's time for them to pick the Lie Of The Year for 2012. There are so MANY to choose from!

* Romney is a felon.
* Romney has a weird, cult-like religion.
* Romney paid no taxes for ten years.
* Romney contributed to the death of a cancer patient.
* Romney closed GST Steel and threw everyone out of work.
* Herm Cain had an affair.

And the list goes on.

aboutime
08-16-2012, 12:39 PM
Funny how Politifact managed to avoid also referring to Joe Biden as mentally deficient, troubled, and proud of his SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER.....000-00-0001. And people have accused me of being old.

The Democrat Convention will be the SILENT Convention of Alzheimer Winners. And nobody remembers WHY they are having a convention except JOE.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
08-16-2012, 09:06 PM
I feel sorry for Politifact when it's time for them to pick the Lie Of The Year for 2012. There are so MANY to choose from!

* Romney is a felon.
* Romney has a weird, cult-like religion.
* Romney paid no taxes for ten years.
* Romney contributed to the death of a cancer patient.
* Romney closed GST Steel and threw everyone out of work.
* Herm Cain had an affair.

And the list goes on.
* obama is a genius
* obama truly cares
* obama created millions of jobs!!!

And the list goes on.

gabosaurus
08-16-2012, 10:25 PM
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_05/senate_gop_votes_to_end_medica029834.


Less than 24 hours after their surprising victory in the race for a vacant House seat, Democrats forced Senate Republicans on Wednesday to vote yes or no on a bill that would reshape Medicare, signaling their intent to use the issue as a blunt instrument against Republicans through the 2012 election.
No Democrats supported the measure, and five Republicans — Scott Brown, Susan Collins, Lisa Murkowski, Rand Paul, and Olympia Snowe — broke ranks to oppose the House plan. (Paul said it wasn’t ridiculous enough.) But 40 GOP senators (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=112&session=1&vote=00077) voted to eliminate Medicare, while supporting the many other odious provisions in the House Republican agenda.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2011/04/15/house-of-representatives-votes-to-end-medicare/


The United States House of Representatives has passed the Paul Ryan budget blueprint that would end Medicare as we know it, convert Medicaid to a block grant program which would sharply curtail health care availability to the poor and nursing home care to seniors, while further cutting dramatically into aid to those in need of food stamp programs and other social safety net assistance.
The final vote tally was 235-193, with four Republicans voting against the bill.

fj1200
08-17-2012, 08:54 AM
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_05/senate_gop_votes_to_end_medica029834.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2011/04/15/house-of-representatives-votes-to-end-medicare/

Do you acknowledge that Medicare is unsustainable "as we know it"?

gabosaurus
08-17-2012, 11:09 AM
Do you acknowledge that Medicare is unsustainable "as we know it"?

Just the opposite. I think Medicare is sustainable if changes are made. Basically, Medicare needs more oversight and stricter regulations.
The problem with eliminating or severely curtailing Medicare is all the millions of people (like my parents) who have paid in to the system for decades. They are expecting to get back something for their investment.
The Republican plan is "we have your money, and now we're putting you on a glacier and sending you out to die. Sorry."

fj1200
08-17-2012, 12:02 PM
Just the opposite. I think Medicare is sustainable if changes are made. Basically, Medicare needs more oversight and stricter regulations.


Then you agree with me that Medicare IS unsustainable, a simple look at any graph that projects revenues and expenses will tell you that. The problem is not oversight and stricter regulations because we already have much of that. Legislation is inherently ineffective when $60BB per year is lost in fraud which doesn't address what is really wrong with HC in general in this country. The base problem is that the people who demand HC are almost entirely insulated from the spending of the money. Seniors, by and large, do not pay the bills just like your average HC insurance policy holder doesn't directly pay the bill.


The problem with eliminating or severely curtailing Medicare is all the millions of people (like my parents) who have paid in to the system for decades. They are expecting to get back something for their investment.
The Republican plan is "we have your money, and now we're putting you on a glacier and sending you out to die. Sorry."

Who has proposed that?

Medicare: An investment. :laugh:

aboutime
08-17-2012, 02:40 PM
Asking Gabby to acknowledge, or agree to anything in reference to Medicare would be just like asking Obama to justify all of the Documents he has placed UNDER LOCK AND KEY. Hidden from being exposed.

Gabby is just like every other Liberal, and Obama. They have all be convinced, trained, and brainwashed into believing all of the known Liberal lies they have heard for so long. None of them are humanly capable of Denying any of the Lies, they honestly believe are true.

In other words. Don't ask. THEY DO NOT KNOW, and do not want to know the truth.