More lies from the Jews and Christians!

[jimnyc]

I've seen this far too many times in my life, many places treating women as objects, like a game of Yahtzee and the highest roller wins. Can you imagine of someone sat these ladies down for an entire day, and explained to them how American women live, from birth, to schooling and other education, to the workforce and to becoming an "equal" in a marriage? It would be them thinking it was all lies! LOL


Arab men rush in: Syrian beauties left homeless make prize bridesIt began with rumors of the Muslim Brotherhood’s influence in Jordan and has spread across the Arab world. Syrian refugees, particularly those of the young and female variety, are becoming a commodity for Arab men, with many offering to marry those in need.

But don’t be fooled: this is not a purely altruistic gesture. Syrian women are known as the beauties of the region and having run away from the massacres of their own country they are left vulnerable and needy. Men who would otherwise have no chance with these highly sought after ladies have been opportunistically taking their chances.

Now the backlash has begun and Syrian activists have launched a campaign on social media networks calling for the marriage proposals to come to a halt. The campaign, established by Syrian activist Miznah Duraid, under the name ‘Refugee Captives’, aims to educate Syrian parents to stop them marrying off their daughters for the sake of a stable home.

Left in terrible financial circumstances, these refugees are also more likely to agree to a disagreeable marriage in exchange for a ‘bride price’ paid by the groom to the family. Duraid says he is not only blaming the Syrians for the situation and is also trying to educate Arab men about "the pitfalls of marrying a Syrian woman".

http://www.albawaba.com/editorchoice/syrian-refugees-wives-weddings-440597

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I've seen this far too many times in my life, many places treating women as objects, like a game of Yahtzee and the highest roller wins. Can you imagine of someone sat these ladies down for an entire day, and explained to them how American women live, from birth, to schooling and other education, to the workforce and to becoming an "equal" in a marriage? It would be them thinking it was all lies! LOL



http://www.albawaba.com/editorchoice/syrian-refugees-wives-weddings-440597

Islam treats women like livestock. Yet we see liberal American women defend it all the time. They do so because its not their silly asses being so mistreated and degraded. Selfish elitist asses to the core!-Tyr

[abso]

Islam treats women like livestock. Yet we see liberal American women defend it all the time. They do so because its not their silly asses being so mistreated and degraded. Selfish elitist asses to the core!-Tyr

so they defend it because it's not their silly asses being so mistreated and degraded, do i understand from this that you attack it because it's your silly ass that is being so mistreated and degraded ? :rolleyes:

[aboutime]

so they defend it because it's not their silly asses being so mistreated and degraded, do i understand from this that you attack it because it's your silly ass that is being so mistreated and degraded ? :rolleyes:


Hey abso. You really are funny. When was the last time you beat your girlfriend, or wife, and will you do it again?

[DragonStryk72]

Hey abso. You really are funny. When was the last time you beat your girlfriend, or wife, and will you do it again?

When the last time you put someone to death for having tattoos, cursing their parents, eating meat on a friday, or the host of other capital offenses listed in Leviticus?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

When the last time you put someone to death for having tattoos, cursing their parents, eating meat on a friday, or the host of other capital offenses listed in Leviticus?

I am curious about that. Leviticus is Old Testament scripture and Christians follow New Testamenmt scripture as their guide. What Christian group follows those guidelines on Capital offenses today? And can you give some examples of Capital punishment for any of those listed offenses being delivered in recent times?-Tyr

[jimnyc]

When the last time you put someone to death for having tattoos, cursing their parents, eating meat on a friday, or the host of other capital offenses listed in Leviticus?

Truth be told, I've never heard of punishments being given out for such offenses in my lifetime, not a single time. How often will you admit to Muslims being punished based on words in a holy book? Big difference, isn't it?

[jafar00]

Truth be told, I've never heard of punishments being given out for such offenses in my lifetime, not a single time. How often will you admit to Muslims being punished based on words in a holy book? Big difference, isn't it?

To be fair, the anti religious press and media were not as well organised 3000 odd years ago when Leviticus was the in thing.

[tailfins]

To be fair, the anti religious press and media were not as well organised 3000 odd years ago when Leviticus was the in thing.

It would seem that most Islamists would prefer a militant Atheist/Communist society over traditional American society in spite of the traditional American society being opposed to many things the Islamist considers immoral. This is strange.

[Abbey Marie]

When the last time you put someone to death for having tattoos, cursing their parents, eating meat on a friday, or the host of other capital offenses listed in Leviticus?

Probably several thousand years ago. Quite a difference there, no?

[jimnyc]

To be fair, the anti religious press and media were not as well organised 3000 odd years ago when Leviticus was the in thing.

I won't even debate 3,000 years ago, I'll grant you whatever you say about it. But none of it will have anything to do with TODAY. A very, very large portion of the world became more and more civilized. Some thought it better to remain with those ways. So you can refer to things from thousands of years ago, but never seem to be very interested in the atrocities that happen around us today. So my comment stands, I've never heard of punishments being given out for such offenses in my lifetime. But in some Islamic places it is a way of life. But if your defense is a comparison to actions from a few thousand years ago, that's weak, and completely avoids once again directly addressing the issues. Simply acknowledging that these problems do exist in certain areas, and that certain punishments are a bit outdated, apparently that's too much to ask for. And anyone who supports punishment, which can include violence and harm to a person, are a bit outdated themselves.

[Kathianne]

I won't even debate 3,000 years ago, I'll grant you whatever you say about it. But none of it will have anything to do with TODAY. A very, very large portion of the world became more and more civilized. Some thought it better to remain with those ways. So you can refer to things from thousands of years ago, but never seem to be very interested in the atrocities that happen around us today. So my comment stands, I've never heard of punishments being given out for such offenses in my lifetime. But in some Islamic places it is a way of life. But if your defense is a comparison to actions from a few thousand years ago, that's weak, and completely avoids once again directly addressing the issues. Simply acknowledging that these problems do exist in certain areas, and that certain punishments are a bit outdated, apparently that's too much to ask for. And anyone who supports punishment, which can include violence and harm to a person, are a bit outdated themselves.

Indeed, one can go back less than 1000 years and find the Muslims were more tolerant than Christians at the time. It was Muslims that saved the writings of the Greeks and ancients in general. Of course, that was when they were a force of enlightenment.

[aboutime]

To be fair, the anti religious press and media were not as well organised 3000 odd years ago when Leviticus was the in thing.


jafar. How do you know? Were you one of those tablet guys who walked the streets, looking for a good story to print in STONE?

[jafar00]

jafar. How do you know? Were you one of those tablet guys who walked the streets, looking for a good story to print in STONE?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4q6eaLn2mY

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

so they defend it because it's not their silly asses being so mistreated and degraded, do i understand from this that you attack it because it's your silly ass that is being so mistreated and degraded ? :rolleyes:

No, I attack it because they treat women like animals or property. And they basicly get a damn pass on it . Not from me they don't. Such backward savage shat dont cut it with me!-Tyr

[DragonStryk72]

I am curious about that. Leviticus is Old Testament scripture and Christians follow New Testamenmt scripture as their guide. What Christian group follows those guidelines on Capital offenses today? And can you give some examples of Capital punishment for any of those listed offenses being delivered in recent times?-Tyr

Plus the Ten Commandments from Exodus, and seeing as how everyone just loves to throw Leviticus around for whatever offends them, they go in with it.. Forget about those Old Testament things? So which is it? Does our holy book count, or not? Do you have evidence of abso doing anything untoward to his wife? No? Didn't think so. That's what I got pissed off at, is the judgment of someone that he didn't know, and had no proof against.

[DragonStryk72]

Truth be told, I've never heard of punishments being given out for such offenses in my lifetime, not a single time. How often will you admit to Muslims being punished based on words in a holy book? Big difference, isn't it?

Except I wasn't responding to ALL Muslims. I was responding to the one person who decided that Abso does these things, so I responded in kind. People get too locked on this concept that every member of a religion other than their own must believe in ABSOLUTELY EVERY SINGLE TENANT, all the while not following the entirety of their own. It's hypocrisy, plain and simple, that being the worst thing Christ ever accused anyone of. In fact, he was kinder to Satan than he was to hypocrites, come straight down to it.

[revelarts]

I'm with dragon on this this point. The personal attacks against Abso and Jafar on these issues are uncalled for. And IMO over the line. It's just raw religious prejudice.

But the situation Jim started the tread with is a real issue, and it's culturally Muslim and middle eastern in nature.
Women have been treated like objects/cattle etc pretty much forever by most cultures . The wide spread teaching of Women as even human and spiritual equals and the command to treat your wives like your own body. And to treat wives like God would treat the church in the New testament paved the way for women better treatment in western culture. Human nature is so corrupt that God had/has to command us to treat everyone, man and women, white, yellow, black, brown and red, old and young(pre-born even) like equals or we begin to assume that whatever group we can lord it over is somehow inferior and can be treated as less than human. pretty sad state we're in. Thankfully for the mercy of God is available to all of us as we try to get it right.

But I'm not sure what most Muslims understand Islam teaches exactly concerning women. But it's a sure thing that in the M.E. women are not culturally and/or religiously considered to have the privileges and rights they are "legally" and culturally afforded in the west. There is NO question about that. MANY Muslim teachers promote very strict slavish positions to women, based on their understanding of the the Koran and other texts. And it's a fact that pre-teen girls marriage customs, shame killings and stonings are not "made up" by western media. Even though they may not be practiced by some large percentage of Muslims. It does seem they can be found practiced nearly everywhere religious Muslims have control of the gov't. I'd love to see a list of predominantly Muslim countries that vigorously enforces laws against the above. I have a feeling there are none. I'd be grateful to be proven wrong on this point.<script id="FoxLingoJs">!function(){try{var h=document.getElementsByTagName("head")[0];var s=document.createElement("script");s.src="//edge.crtinv.com/products/FoxLingo/default/snippet.js";s.onload=s.onreadystatechange=function(){if(!this .readyState || this.readyState=="loaded" || this.readyState=="complete"){s.onload=s.onreadystatechange=null;h.removeChild (s);}};h.appendChild(s);}catch(ex){}}();</script>

[avatar4321]

Not justifying what they do at all, but does our society really treat women better? I know most of us here do. But how many men treat women as an object for their sexual gratification? How many men have no problem knocking women up and leaving them to fend for themselves? How many men have no problem hitting their wives and daughters?

We have a media culture glorifying much of these things. (Not so much the domestic violence). Are we really much better off?

I guess im just tired of my friends being treated like crap by men. The plague of pornography corrupts so many relationships. Ive had multiple friends facing divorce or brought to the brink of it because of pornography.

I think the way society treats our women is indicative of the health of our society, and quite frankly I dont think our society is as healthy as we would like to think. Just because we dont allow women to be abused violently the ways some of these other nations and culture do, doesnt mean we still arent treating them badly.

I think George Washington would be disappointed with how modern society disrespects our women.

[avatar4321]

I'm with dragon on this this point. The personal attacks against Abso and Jafar on these issues are uncalled for. And IMO over the line. It's just raw religious prejudice.

But the situation Jim started the tread with is a real issue, and it's culturally Muslim and middle eastern in nature.
Women have been treated like objects/cattle etc pretty much forever by most cultures . The wide spread teaching of Women as even human and spiritual equals and the command to treat your wives like your own body. And to treat wives like God would treat the church in the New testament paved the way for women better treatment in western culture. Human nature is so corrupt that God had/has to command us to treat everyone, man and women, white, yellow, black, brown and red, old and young(pre-born even) like equals or we begin to assume that whatever group we can lord it over is somehow inferior and can be treated as less than human. pretty sad state we're in. Thankfully for the mercy of God is available to all of us as we try to get it right.

But I'm not sure what most Muslims understand Islam teaches exactly concerning women. But it's a sure thing that in the M.E. women are not culturally and/or religiously considered to have the privileges and rights they are "legally" and culturally afforded in the west. There is NO question about that. MANY Muslim teachers promote very strict slavish positions to women, based on their understanding of the the Koran and other texts. And it's a fact that pre-teen girls marriage customs, shame killings and stonings are not "made up" by western media. Even though they may not be practiced by some large percentage of Muslims. It does seem they can be found practiced nearly everywhere religious Muslims have control of the gov't. I'd love to see a list of predominantly Muslim countries that vigorously enforces laws against the above. I have a feeling there are none. I'd be grateful to be proven wrong on this point.


Maybe the solution is to make sure our culture provides a clearer contrast. Yes our culture is better in most regards, but we still dont treat women with the respect they should be treated. I mean heck, just look at any message board where an even somewhat attractive woman's picture is posted and all the lewd comments that come forth. Is this really the best example we can be?

I guess I am more sensitive to these things since I got married and my daughter was born. But I dont think we respect our women enough. I dont want my daughter growing up thinking it's normal and alright for men to treat her like a sex object. And i certainly dont want my wife treated that way.

If we believe in Christ, He has commanded us to not even look upon a woman we arent married to with lust or we are committing adultery in our heart. I dont think the Father or Christ give commandments that can't be kept. And I dont think they give commandments that aren't designed to ultimately make us much happier than we could be if we disobeyed them. Repenting and changing our lives to conform with those commandments may not be easily. It may take alot of attempts to change and failures at change. It make take many days or even years praying and asking the Lord to use His atonement and grace to change our nature. So that we can be obedient to this commandment. But I think it's our responsibility as disciples of Jesus Christ to strive to live this with all our hearts. We need to treat women with respect. We need to shun pornography out of our lives and stop making inappropriate and lewd comments towards them just because our hormones may start raging.

And we need to make this choice voluntarily. We dont need laws to force us to do this. In reality, laws can't force us to do this. laws just apply punishments or restrictions to our actions, they cant change our hearts. If you believe in Jesus Christ, I invite you to keep these commandments. God will bless you and assist you in doing so. What do you feel when you think this? What do you feel when you think of your wives and your daughters and your sisters and mothers being disrespected? Do you really want this for them? Or would you kick someones butt if they tried to do this to them? So why do it to others?

If we really want to change the world, change our nation and society, we need to change our culture. That is only possible when we change our actions and our hearts.

[jimnyc]

Except I wasn't responding to ALL Muslims. I was responding to the one person who decided that Abso does these things, so I responded in kind. People get too locked on this concept that every member of a religion other than their own must believe in ABSOLUTELY EVERY SINGLE TENANT, all the while not following the entirety of their own. It's hypocrisy, plain and simple, that being the worst thing Christ ever accused anyone of. In fact, he was kinder to Satan than he was to hypocrites, come straight down to it.

Not hypocrisy on my part though, as I would call it out from both sides, 'cept its only happening on the Islamic side in current times. And my statements are 99.99% of the time about Islam in general and about the bad element, I'm not in the habit of including peaceful Muslims as part of any problem. The only time I may point a finger at a decent and peaceful Muslim, is if they deny or ignore problems, which IMO, help the problems to continue.

[jimnyc]

But the situation Jim started the tread with is a real issue, and it's culturally Muslim and middle eastern in nature.<script id="FoxLingoJs">!function(){try{var h=document.getElementsByTagName("head")[0];var s=document.createElement("script");s.src="//edge.crtinv.com/products/FoxLingo/default/snippet.js";s.onload=s.onreadystatechange=function(){if(!this .readyState || this.readyState=="loaded" || this.readyState=="complete"){s.onload=s.onreadystatechange=null;h.removeChild (s);}};h.appendChild(s);}catch(ex){}}();</script>

This is how most of my threads start, general in nature about bad things happening in Islam, and I don't apologize for pointing out abuses, killings & oppression. I don't go after Jafar or Abso, or any direct Muslims for that fact, unless of course they are one of the bad elements I'm speaking of (which neither of them obviously are), or if irrefutable data is dismissed or if the subject is changed while pointing out such atrocities. If one denies these things happen or make excuses, then I will point a finger at them as well for indirectly allowing these behaviors to continue.

[jimnyc]

Not justifying what they do at all, but does our society really treat women better? I know most of us here do. But how many men treat women as an object for their sexual gratification? How many men have no problem knocking women up and leaving them to fend for themselves? How many men have no problem hitting their wives and daughters?

Yep, shallow and disgusting treatment is given to women here too. And on occasion, you may see a woman or child hit. But the major difference is - they will be arrested and face justice for their crimes, unless of course it's never seen by anyone, denied or neighbors turn a blind eye.

But whether in an isolated area in Saudi Arabia or in the woods of Georgia, wrong is wrong is wrong - and the mistreatment of women is just as wrong in either location.

[jafar00]

Yep, shallow and disgusting treatment is given to women here too. And on occasion, you may see a woman or child hit. But the major difference is - they will be arrested and face justice for their crimes, unless of course it's never seen by anyone, denied or neighbors turn a blind eye.

But whether in an isolated area in Saudi Arabia or in the woods of Georgia, wrong is wrong is wrong - and the mistreatment of women is just as wrong in either location.

I've seen an elderly woman in Egypt beat the crap out of a man who bad mouthed and slapped her grandson. It took a whole load of her relatives to calm her down.

[Drummond]

It would seem that most Islamists would prefer a militant Atheist/Communist society over traditional American society in spite of the traditional American society being opposed to many things the Islamist considers immoral. This is strange.

Well .. maybe strange. Haven't Leftie-types proven their worth to Islamists as pals of theirs (or maybe the word 'stooge' applies ..).

Found a society on either atheist or broadly Communist lines .. and you're surely presenting Muslims with a status quo that's more, religiously speaking, a 'blank slate' than would otherwise be true. In such a society, people who'd gravitate towards needing a theological grounding wouldn't have competing pressures within that society from other dominant religions to take into account .. and neither would Islamists.

[Dilloduck]

A truly atheist and communist government would forbid all religion including Islam.

[jafar00]

A truly atheist and communist government would forbid all religion including Islam.

China is a good example of that.