View Full Version : Democrats drop "God" from Party platform
Little-Acorn
09-04-2012, 06:36 PM
Now the Democrats have dropped the mention of "God" from their party platform.
I guess it was inevitable, considering the increasing numbers of His teachings and ideas they oppose.
-------------------------------------
http://blogs.cbn.com/thebrodyfile/archive/2012/09/04/democrats-drop-god-from-party-platform.aspx
Exclusive: Democrats Drop 'God' From Party Platform
Guess what? God’s name has been removed from the Democratic National Committee platform.
This is the paragraph that was in the 2008 platform:
“We need a government that stands up for the hopes, values, and interests of working people, and gives everyone willing to work hard the chance to make the most of their God-given potential.”
Now the words “God-given” have been removed. The paragraph has been restructured to say this:
“We gather to reclaim the basic bargain that built the largest middle class and the most prosperous nation on Earth – the simple principle that in America, hard work should pay off, responsibility should be rewarded, and each one of us should be able to go as far as our talent and drive take us.”
Stay in the know. Get The Brody File Weekly:
The Brody File has calls into DNC to explain why God’s name has been dropped from the platform. Some critics will suggest that when you have planks in your platform that support abortion rights and gay marriage then it's no wonder that God's name would be dropped as well.
glockmail
09-04-2012, 06:48 PM
Democrats are now officially the Godless Party. :laugh2:
aboutime
09-04-2012, 07:47 PM
Democrats are now officially the Godless Party. :laugh2:
Of course they HAD to drop that word. It makes them Honest, and Real Hypocrites if they leave the word in, while complaining about people they PRETEND to be on SUNDAY...saying GOD BLESS AMERICA...only to impress those who might have something to do with their next VOTE.
NightTrain
09-04-2012, 08:46 PM
Finally, a bit of honesty.
aboutime
09-04-2012, 09:24 PM
Finally, a bit of honesty.
Be careful you don't confuse them NightTrain. Normally. Liberals, Democrats, and Obama-ites never understand, or even use the words TRUTH, or HONESTY when repeating their Talking Points...as directed by the DNC.
They are so afraid of those words. You could be accused of racism for using them IN VAIN.
Good.
A - Nothing is 'god given'
B - It's about time Americans stopped pretending that phrases like 'God save America' are anything more than meaningless, retorick that politicians are all but forced to say (thus diminishing any meaning implied) , less they appear to not be using God for thier political means.
Personally I think if I were a Christian I'd be pretty annoyed that someone thought they could gain my (or my gods) favour by mentioning him periodically.
NightTrain
09-04-2012, 09:41 PM
Be careful you don't confuse them NightTrain. Normally. Liberals, Democrats, and Obama-ites never understand, or even use the words TRUTH, or HONESTY when repeating their Talking Points...as directed by the DNC.
They are so afraid of those words. You could be accused of racism for using them IN VAIN.
Democrats haven't been remotely representing God for many decades now.
It's about time they dropped the reference.
avatar4321
09-04-2012, 09:45 PM
I think the adversay is revealing himself.
I dont think it's wise to stop acknowledging the sovereign of the universe. Especially when seeking power over others.
I think the adversay is revealing himself.
I dont think it's wise to stop acknowledging the sovereign of the universe. Especially when seeking power over others.
Why would it not be wise? That sounds vaguely threatening as I read it.
NightTrain
09-04-2012, 09:53 PM
Why would it not be wise? That sounds vaguely threatening as I read it.
America was founded upon biblical principles with democracy. There are many references to our Christian God in our founding documents.
You know this.
Behold the lone superpower.
America was founded upon biblical principles with democracy. There are many references to our Christian God in our founding documents.
You know this.
Behold the lone superpower.
The lone superpower?
NightTrain
09-04-2012, 09:56 PM
The lone superpower?
Yes.
Yes.
As in god, or America?
NightTrain
09-04-2012, 10:10 PM
As in god, or America?
Noir, I'm pretty sure that you are aware that your former colony is the Lone SuperPower, are you not?
Noir, I'm pretty sure that you are aware that your former colony is the Lone SuperPower, are you not?
So you do mean America. Well, that makes no sense in regards to my question. Just because America is 'the lone superpower' doesn't mean a political party needs to use god wherever it can for votes.
And I'm sure you're aware that soon America will soon lose its title as lone superpower to a godless China. I wonder if it would be wise for the Chinese political parties to start mentioning god on their political platforms...
Dilloduck
09-04-2012, 10:27 PM
Chinese political parties :lmao:
Chinese political parties :lmao:
0,o
I'm missing the joke here.
gabosaurus
09-04-2012, 10:33 PM
Believe it or not, some people don't believe in God.
America is a melting pot of individuals. Many are from different backgrounds and hold different beliefs. The thought that a political party might stray from endorsing the Anglo Christian God has been too risky in the past. But perhaps it is time for that.
I believe in the Christian God. But I recognize that many do not.
NightTrain
09-04-2012, 11:17 PM
So you do mean America. Well, that makes no sense in regards to my question. Just because America is 'the lone superpower' doesn't mean a political party needs to use god wherever it can for votes.
Actually, you heathen, it does. We were founded on Christian principles, it got us where we are today as the foremost leader economically and militarily in the world. Any questions?
And I'm sure you're aware that soon America will soon lose its title as lone superpower to a godless China. I wonder if it would be wise for the Chinese political parties to start mentioning god on their political platforms...
Doubtful.
And, should that happen, you'll enjoy your communist role in a state-decided work designation. You'll happily install wheels on an assembly line for the next 30 years until 65, where you will live quietly in a hovel on a pittance, if you're lucky.
You'll really be a non-conformist then, won't you, Noir?
Do a little research, youngster, and see exactly how good things were in godless USSR, for the common slob like you. I guarantee you will pucker up.
NightTrain
09-04-2012, 11:20 PM
0,o
I'm missing the joke here.
There is one.
Are you kidding me? And you actually want to debate Commie vs. Capitalism?
red states rule
09-05-2012, 03:15 AM
Believe it or not, some people don't believe in God.
America is a melting pot of individuals. Many are from different backgrounds and hold different beliefs. The thought that a political party might stray from endorsing the Anglo Christian God has been too risky in the past. But perhaps it is time for that.
I believe in the Christian God. But I recognize that many do not.
Makes as much sense when libs like you scream how cigarettes and Joe Camel are kiling our kids and both need to banned
While at the same time saying it is a constitutional right for a women to go to an abortion clinic, have the "doctor" bore a hole in the babies skull, suck its brains out, and toss the dead baby in the trash can
So by all means, lets dump God to show we the "smart" people do not offend those who do not belive in God. Lets forget what the nation was founded on, and that America was founded on God
We need those votes from the non believers
Liberal logica t its finest
Voted4Reagan
09-05-2012, 06:33 AM
Good.
A - Nothing is 'god given'
B - It's about time Americans stopped pretending that phrases like 'God save America' are anything more than meaningless, retorick that politicians are all but forced to say (thus diminishing any meaning implied) , less they appear to not be using God for thier political means.
Personally I think if I were a Christian I'd be pretty annoyed that someone thought they could gain my (or my gods) favour by mentioning him periodically.
The Big-Brain intellectual Atheist here needs to learn how to spell...
NOIR....it's spelled....RHETORIC... not retorick.
and truthfully....I've seen more Atheists push their belief set down peoples throats than Christians, Jews or Muslims...
Your "RELIGION" is far more aggressive in this regard...
The Big-Brain intellectual Atheist here needs to learn how to spell...
NOIR....it's spelled....RHETORIC... not retorick.
and truthfully....I've seen more Atheists push their belief set down peoples throats than Christians, Jews or Muslims...
Your "RELIGION" is far more aggressive in this regard...
Regardless of how much of a 'big-brained intellectual' I am, it is a dyslexic brain, so words like rhetoric slip though the net. Though as I see it, writing's intent is communication, and communication is simply a sharing of knowledge by understanding. You understood what I was saying, and so it was communicated well, albeit 'wrongly'.
And I'd really doubt that, especially with the Muslims, but in any case, the problem isn't one religion or another (though some are obviously worse) or a 'non-relgion' but rather Dogmatism. Not that it has anything to do with this thread.
jimnyc
09-05-2012, 07:43 AM
Believe it or not, some people don't believe in God.
America is a melting pot of individuals. Many are from different backgrounds and hold different beliefs. The thought that a political party might stray from endorsing the Anglo Christian God has been too risky in the past. But perhaps it is time for that.
I believe in the Christian God. But I recognize that many do not.
I also recognize that many do not, as they should recognize that many do. There are times where it's perfectly fine to invoke God into a speech or platform, and times where it's not necessary. Like Noir said, there are times some use the words just because they're supposed to, and that loses its meaning. But none of this means that it should be forbidden for those that do believe in God must refrain. Let the believers believe and let the non believers not believe.
glockmail
09-05-2012, 08:19 AM
Good.
A - Nothing is 'god given'
....
Your stupid beliefs don't matter. Our Founding documents do. And the Declaration of Independence justifies the act of treason against the King of England based on inalienable rights of men that have been endowed by their Creator. The Democrat Party has now officially denied history. :laugh:
cadet
09-05-2012, 09:13 AM
Makes as much sense when libs like you scream how cigarettes and Joe Camel are kiling our kids and both need to banned
While at the same time saying it is a constitutional right for a women to go to an abortion clinic, have the "doctor" bore a hole in the babies skull, suck its brains out, and toss the dead baby in the trash can
So by all means, lets dump God to show we the "smart" people do not offend those who do not belive in God. Lets forget what the nation was founded on, and that America was founded on God
We need those votes from the non believers
Liberal logica t its finest
I want to know, are there really that many atheists in america? I could've sworn they were a minority. I'd be more worried about getting the religious vote then the atheist.
glockmail
09-05-2012, 09:16 AM
I want to know, are there really that many atheists in america? I could've sworn they were a minority. I'd be more worried about getting the religious vote then the atheist.
If you're a gay black atheist who can't hold down a job you'll definitely be voting for the Democrat Party. :lol:
Abbey Marie
09-05-2012, 10:34 AM
If you're a gay black atheist who can't hold down a job you'll definitely be voting for the Democrat Party. :lol:
There are no atheists in butt holes...
Your stupid beliefs don't matter. Our Founding documents do. And the Declaration of Independence justifies the act of treason against the King of England based on inalienable rights of men that have been endowed by their Creator. The Democrat Party has now officially denied history. :laugh:
God was nothing to do with the rights, all the rights where chosen, written, and enacted by humans.
That's why things like 'the god given right for a human not to be someone else's property' came later, when humans decided it was a 'god given right'.
cadet
09-05-2012, 11:21 AM
God was nothing to do with the rights, all the rights where chosen, written, and enacted by humans.
That's why things like 'the god given right for a human not to be someone else's property' came later, when humans decided it was a 'god given right'.
That may be your opinion, but it's not mine nor our founders.
glockmail
09-05-2012, 11:25 AM
There are no atheists in butt holes... :lol: :clap:
glockmail
09-05-2012, 11:27 AM
God was nothing to do with the rights, all the rights where chosen, written, and enacted by humans.
That's why things like 'the god given right for a human not to be someone else's property' came later, when humans decided it was a 'god given right'. Again, your beliefs don't matter. Your argument has been destroyed which is why you can't address mine except to repeat your same statement of atheist belief; you can't deny that. :laugh:
That may be your opinion, but it's not mine nor our founders.
It use to be that people had a 'god given' right to own slaves.
Then humans changed the law, meaning people had the 'god given' right to not be slaves.
If you say that rights are god given, then you have to explain (as above) how humans are able to change 'god given' rights.
cadet
09-05-2012, 11:32 AM
It use to be that people had a 'god given' right to own slaves.
Then humans changed the law, meaning people had the 'god given' right to not be slaves.
If you say that rights are god given, then you have to explain (as above) how humans are able to change 'god given' rights.
The only "God given right" is to be free to do whatever you want. That's what america was founded on right? to be able to live your own life!
The only "God given right" is to be free to do whatever you want. That's what america was founded on right? to be able to live your own life!
No, america was not founded on the premiss that everyone was 'free to do whatever you want'. That would be an anarchic society.
cadet
09-05-2012, 11:44 AM
No, america was not founded on the premiss that everyone was 'free to do whatever you want'. That would be an anarchic society.
Well, you're free to raise a family, come from whatever background, believe in whatever, be a millionaire or homeless (all depending on how you apply yourself), live a long life, go to school, learn anything...
so yes, if that's an anarchic society, then we are damn proud to be one.
Well, you're free to raise a family, come from whatever background, believe in whatever, be a millionaire or homeless (all depending on how you apply yourself), live a long life, go to school, learn anything...
so yes, if that's an anarchic society, then we are damn proud to be one.
No. You're missing the point. If it is my 'god given' right to "to be free to do whatever you want" then there would be nothing wrong with me walking down the street and stabbing the first twenty people i saw.
Now obviously such a 'god given' right would have to be restricted, but when you accept that is the case, then you accept that all your rights have nothing to do with god, but (as they are) are infact decided, and enacted by humans.
cadet
09-05-2012, 11:54 AM
No. You're missing the point. If it is my 'god given' right to "to be free to do whatever you want" then there would be nothing wrong with me walking down the street and stabbing the first twenty people i saw.
Now obviously such a 'god given' right would have to be restricted, but when you accept that is the case, then you accept that all your rights have nothing to do with god, but (as they are) are infact decided, and enacted by humans.
As far as i'm concerned, you CAN do that. SHOULD you, and are you willing to suffer the consequences... That's god given rights.
aboutime
09-05-2012, 01:00 PM
As far as i'm concerned, you CAN do that. SHOULD you, and are you willing to suffer the consequences... That's god given rights.
Good point, and well stated cadet. ALSO. What liberals always forget when they intentionally, or unintentionally use the word GOD, as in GOD Given Rights, when referencing the Constitution is.
They also forget that they have the GOD Given right to remain Uneducated, Ignorant, Dumb, and Dependent on government to do their thinking, and speaking for them. In other words. They cannot lose their rights..according to the constitution. To prove how Ignorance is their guide, and hatred is their agenda.
NOBODY CAN TAKE THOSE RIGHTS FROM THEM.....EVER.
cadet
09-05-2012, 01:02 PM
Good point, and well stated cadet. ALSO. What liberals always forget when they intentionally, or unintentionally use the word GOD, as in GOD Given Rights, when referencing the Constitution is.
They also forget that they have the GOD Given right to remain Uneducated, Ignorant, Dumb, and Dependent on government to do their thinking, and speaking for them. In other words. They cannot lose their rights..according to the constitution. To prove how Ignorance is their guide, and hatred is their agenda.
NOBODY CAN TAKE THOSE RIGHTS FROM THEM.....EVER.
No matter how much we try...
glockmail
09-05-2012, 02:16 PM
It use to be that people had a 'god given' right to own slaves.
Then humans changed the law, meaning people had the 'god given' right to not be slaves.
If you say that rights are god given, then you have to explain (as above) how humans are able to change 'god given' rights.
You are confused about the founding of the United States as well as the Founding Documents. Slavery was a subject of frequent debate and it is not codified into the these documents.
Abbey Marie
09-05-2012, 03:31 PM
This action on the part of liberals does not surpise me in the least. As a party, they become more godless day by day. As do many of those who like to fancy themselves as not following any party or religion. If you doubt this, just look at the comments right on this board by such people. They jump at the chance to criticize any Christian activity or belief, and love to "like" any anti-Christian comments. And I am not talking about Abso or Jafar, whose opinins on the subject are understandable.
I think Avi (Avatar) has a really good handle on why this is happening, and Christians will, or at least should, expect it more and more. The irony is that in their dermination to follow no one and "think for themselves", they fall right into step with Bible prophecy.
jimnyc
09-05-2012, 03:39 PM
I have a God given right to admire boobies. Why else do you think he created them? :coffee:
cadet
09-05-2012, 03:54 PM
I have a God given right to admire boobies. Why else do you think he created them? :coffee:
Undeniable proof that men can focus on two things at one time. :rolleyes:
red states rule
09-05-2012, 04:18 PM
I am watching Fox News and Dems have caved and have put God and Jerusalem back in the platform
The platfrom went back to the 2008 platform
Seems a majority of folks were highly pissed off and Dems have reversed course
Now the Democrats have dropped the mention of "God" from their party platform.
I guess it was inevitable, considering the increasing numbers of His teachings and ideas they oppose.
-------------------------------------
http://blogs.cbn.com/thebrodyfile/archive/2012/09/04/democrats-drop-god-from-party-platform.aspx
Exclusive: Democrats Drop 'God' From Party Platform
Guess what? God’s name has been removed from the Democratic National Committee platform.
This is the paragraph that was in the 2008 platform:
“We need a government that stands up for the hopes, values, and interests of working people, and gives everyone willing to work hard the chance to make the most of their God-given potential.”
Now the words “God-given” have been removed. The paragraph has been restructured to say this:
“We gather to reclaim the basic bargain that built the largest middle class and the most prosperous nation on Earth – the simple principle that in America, hard work should pay off, responsibility should be rewarded, and each one of us should be able to go as far as our talent and drive take us.”
Stay in the know. Get The Brody File Weekly:
The Brody File has calls into DNC to explain why God’s name has been dropped from the platform. Some critics will suggest that when you have planks in your platform that support abortion rights and gay marriage then it's no wonder that God's name would be dropped as well.
WOW I am stunned. I never thought they would do that...3913
KarlMarx
09-05-2012, 04:56 PM
Believe it or not, some people don't believe in God.
America is a melting pot of individuals. Many are from different backgrounds and hold different beliefs. The thought that a political party might stray from endorsing the Anglo Christian God has been too risky in the past. But perhaps it is time for that.
I believe in the Christian God. But I recognize that many do not.
I believe if you ask a Hindu if he believes in God, he'll say "yes" and the multitude of gods and goddesses are manifestations or incarnations of the One God.
Most religions believe in a god, perhaps all of them. Buddhism in its purest form neither affirms nor denies the existence of God.... so "God" isn't necessarily a reference to YWH, the Judeo-Christian God but to the God that all of mankind worships in one form or another (although I believe personally that YWH is one and the same as that God).
Here is the problem with the atheist. It isn't that he doesn't believe in God, it's that he believes that he has enough information to come to the conclusion that there is no God.
An atheist will require a proof that there is a God, but someone who believes in God will likely take it on faith. The believer seems to know that there are many things that we do not know and will likely never know so concluding that there is no God isn't an option.
That's why many atheists don't convert, they don't seem to understand the idea of faith.
Voted4Reagan
09-05-2012, 05:01 PM
Undeniable proof that men can focus on two things at one time. :rolleyes:Looking at BOOBIES is MULTITASKING... I love it!
aboutime
09-05-2012, 08:56 PM
I am watching Fox News and Dems have caved and have put God and Jerusalem back in the platform
The platfrom went back to the 2008 platform
Seems a majority of folks were highly pissed off and Dems have reversed course
red states rule. We all know. They were embarrassed to have that pointed out to them. They really DO NOT want to say that word in mixed company. Much like you can never get them to discuss Racism, or Racists...unless they have a conservative to blame.
Think about that video going around. You know? The one that many Liberals claim they are happy to be OWNED BY THE GOVERNMENT?
According to the Dumb, Ignorant, and Weak of Mind Liberals at the Convention. They Unconsciously APPROVED a return to SLAVERY.
tailfins
09-05-2012, 08:59 PM
Good.
A - Nothing is 'god given'
Then where do rights come from? Or are there no rights, just privileges that government grants or denies at will?
aboutime
09-05-2012, 09:10 PM
Then where do rights come from? Or are there no rights, just privileges that government grants or denies at will?
tailfins. Don't let Noir get under your skin. Non believers always ask questions that make....only them, feel superior to everyone else. And as you can see. They fail miserably.
Noir probably disagree's with the total concepts of both Our Declaration of Independence, and Constitution. And even those FOUR FREEDOMS President Franklin D. Roosevelt proclaimed as well.
The best thing to say to someone like Noir, is the same as you would say to a known, admitted Athiest. Which is.
If you do not believe in something we call a God, nor have any faith in the unseen.
"What are you against, and why are you saying it IF....It doesn't exist, and therefore.
You are complaining about something you can't see.
Which..does not exist...if you want to be accurate, and Honest.
So you are denying your denial?"
red states rule
09-06-2012, 02:29 AM
red states rule. We all know. They were embarrassed to have that pointed out to them. They really DO NOT want to say that word in mixed company. Much like you can never get them to discuss Racism, or Racists...unless they have a conservative to blame.
Think about that video going around. You know? The one that many Liberals claim they are happy to be OWNED BY THE GOVERNMENT?
According to the Dumb, Ignorant, and Weak of Mind Liberals at the Convention. They Unconsciously APPROVED a return to SLAVERY.
But the rest of their plank remains the same - as does the essence of the Dems campaign
http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/aria_c10331720120905120100.jpg
red states rule
09-06-2012, 03:42 AM
You can always count on Debbie Blabbermouth Schultz to provide comic relief when she speaks. the scary thing is there are libs out there who actually believe her
http://youtu.be/LEUKERkdKNM
As far as i'm concerned, you CAN do that. SHOULD you, and are you willing to suffer the consequences... That's god given rights.
You seem to have a bizarre notion of the word 'right', confusing it for the term 'ability'.
For example, I'd you don't have the right to vote, you *can* commit voter fraud, but that doesn't mean you have the right to vote.
The very reason I would be punished by the state for killing 20 people would be because I did something that I didn't have the right to do.
Good point, and well stated cadet. ALSO. What liberals always forget when they intentionally, or unintentionally use the word GOD, as in GOD Given Rights, when referencing the Constitution is.
They also forget that they have the GOD Given right to remain Uneducated, Ignorant, Dumb, and Dependent on government to do their thinking, and speaking for them. In other words. They cannot lose their rights..according to the constitution. To prove how Ignorance is their guide, and hatred is their agenda.
NOBODY CAN TAKE THOSE RIGHTS FROM THEM.....EVER.
Rights are based in legal documents. Rights are taken away and granted all the time. If tomorrow there was constitutional amendment enacted that nullified the 2nd Amendment, then your rights to bear arms have been taken away.
You are confused about the founding of the United States as well as the Founding Documents. Slavery was a subject of frequent debate and it is not codified into the these documents.
Then lets take something that was codified! Voting rights, originally it was left up to states to decide, if the state decided that say, women didn't have the right to vote, then they didn't.
Imagine that, women denied their 'god given' right to vote. Almost as if its a 'man given' right.
Then where do rights come from? Or are there no rights, just privileges that government grants or denies at will?
Rights are granted (and more often today limited) by those who craft legislature.
And yes I would think of rights more as privileges, but for simplicities sake I have left that out of this discussion.
Edit - also apologies for the 4 posts in a row, as far as I can tell there is no option to 'multi-quote' from the 'forum runner' app.
glockmail
09-06-2012, 09:12 AM
Then lets take something that was codified! Voting rights, originally it was left up to states to decide, if the state decided that say, women didn't have the right to vote, then they didn't.
Imagine that, women denied their 'god given' right to vote. Almost as if its a 'man given' right.Restricting women from voting was not codified into the Founding documents either. :laugh:
Restricting women from voting was not codified into the Founding documents either. :laugh:
I didn't say it was. What was codified was that states decided for themselves, so voting was not a right, it was a state privilege.
glockmail
09-06-2012, 12:06 PM
I didn't say it was. What was codified was that states decided for themselves, so voting was not a right, it was a state privilege.What's your point?
What's your point?
That rights are not god given, but rather man made.
Little-Acorn
09-06-2012, 12:11 PM
That rights are not god given, but rather man made.
Relax, glock. Noir has lots of wrong ideas, this foremost among them. He tends to cling to them bitterly, as somebody once said, and is 100% resistant to any fact or logic... including even the most fundamental founding principle of our nation.
glockmail
09-06-2012, 12:25 PM
That rights are not god given, but rather man made. Dude I don't see your train of logic.
Besides your argument was destroyed several posts ago when I explained to you that the Founders invoked God as justification for their treason against the King of England. God is therefore cited in our Founding Documents as giving us certain inalienable rights and no crying, whining, bitching and moaning by you is going to change history. Thomas Paine was an atheist too and he didn't whine about it then like you are doing now.
Why do you hate God so much? :laugh:
glockmail
09-06-2012, 12:28 PM
Relax, glock. Noir has lots of wrong ideas, this foremost among them. He tends to cling to them bitterly, as somebody once said, and is 100% resistant to any fact or logic... including even the most fundamental founding principle of our nation.
What makes you think I'm not relaxed?
There's no applicable mood in Jim's little board My Mood thing that describes my prevailing mood. I'd say its something like "mildly pissed off but relaxed and amused at political retards". :laugh:
Dude I don't see your train of logic.
Besides your argument was destroyed several posts ago when I explained to you that the Founders invoked God as justification for their treason against the King of England. God is therefore cited in our Founding Documents as giving us certain inalienable rights and no crying, whining, bitching and moaning by you is going to change history. Thomas Paine was an atheist too and he didn't whine about it then like you are doing now.
Why do you hate God so much? :laugh:
It wouldn't matter if every founding father was deeply theist, and every other line in the constitution mentioned god.
The constitution itself is written by humans, and can be altered by humans. Your rights were decided by humans and can be altered by humans, nothing godly about them.
The foundation of the country has nothing to do with it.
Little-Acorn
09-06-2012, 01:03 PM
The constitution itself is written by humans, and can be altered by humans.
And not one bit of it granted a single right to anybody, anywhere.
It simply acknowledged that our rights were already there, and said that government was forbidden to infringe on them.
Even atheists agree that we have rights regardless of what "people" such as yourself, say. They might say we have them simply as a result of being human and alive, while religious folks say we have them because God said so. The conclusion is the same: We have rights, men didn't create them, and men can't change them or take them away.
And not one bit of it granted a single right to anybody, anywhere.
It simply acknowledged that our rights were already there, and said that government was forbidden to infringe on them.
Even atheists agree that we have rights regardless of what "people" such as yourself, say. They might say we have them simply as a result of being human and alive, while religious folks say we have them because God said so. The conclusion is the same: We have rights, men didn't create them, and men can't change them or take them away.
Rights are granted by humans, simply by being American you have some rights that I do not have, like the right to bear arms.
Drummond
09-06-2012, 02:15 PM
Good.
A - Nothing is 'god given'
B - It's about time Americans stopped pretending that phrases like 'God save America' are anything more than meaningless, retorick that politicians are all but forced to say (thus diminishing any meaning implied) , less they appear to not be using God for thier political means.
Personally I think if I were a Christian I'd be pretty annoyed that someone thought they could gain my (or my gods) favour by mentioning him periodically.
It's obvious that you're no Christian, Noir. However, there are others who ARE, and they have every right to believe as they do, without being answerable to your perception of 'acceptable' phraseology about that religion.
Actually, Noir, it's surely the case - from a Christian standpoint - that EVERYTHING is 'God given'. The very existence of the Universe, down to every breath every single human being on this world takes, is 'God given'. To fail to acknowledge that would be a refutation of the most (- literally so -) universal truth there is.
It's obvious that you're no Christian, Noir. However, there are others who ARE, and they have every right to believe as they do, without being answerable to your perception of 'acceptable' phraseology about that religion.
And I'm my saying that people don't have the right to believe whatever try want. But that doesn't mean I'm going to ignore then when they say stupid things. Even if there is a Christian god, and the Christians have it *exactly* right, their rights as a citizen are not god given, because the rights they have are guaranteed/protected by the constitution/laws of their country. Which are man made.
Actually, Noir, it's surely the case - from a Christian standpoint - that EVERYTHING is 'God given'. The very existence of the Universe, down to every breath every single human being on this world takes, is 'God given'. To fail to acknowledge that would be a refutation of the most (- literally so -) universal truth there is.
Truths are universal, and not dependent on whether you look at things from a 'Christian standpoint' or otherwise.
To put this simply, answer the following - Is it a god given right that you can bear arms?
aboutime
09-06-2012, 03:15 PM
And I'm my saying that people don't have the right to believe whatever try want. But that doesn't mean I'm going to ignore then when they say stupid things. Even if there is a Christian god, and the Christians have it *exactly* right, their rights as a citizen are not god given, because the rights they have are guaranteed/protected by the constitution/laws of their country. Which are man made.
Truths are universal, and not dependent on whether you look at things from a 'Christian standpoint' or otherwise.
To put this simply, answer the following - Is it a god given right that you can bear arms?
Noir. Your intentional DOUBLE-SPEAK here won't help. You are insisting that MAN made the laws...our Constitution. But for whatever reason you ignored the actual facts, in order to make yourself feel important...you also DID NOT include WHERE the founding Fathers, who wrote the Constitution...got their wisdom to embrace, and express those LAWS OF MAN from someone they called THE ALMIGHTY, even back then. Someone we proudly announce as God Fearing, Loving Christians today...without finding any need, reason, or excuse to explain our FAITH to you, or those who doubt us for our beliefs.
As for your suggestion about BEARING ARMS. You bet. It is also a God given right....as written in the SECOND Amendment.
Have you bothered to read it? It is Inclusive in the Entire Document, and stated as such.
Noir. Your intentional DOUBLE-SPEAK here won't help. You are insisting that MAN made the laws...our Constitution. But for whatever reason you ignored the actual facts, in order to make yourself feel important...you also DID NOT include WHERE the founding Fathers, who wrote the Constitution...got their wisdom to embrace, and express those LAWS OF MAN from someone they called THE ALMIGHTY, even back then. Someone we proudly announce as God Fearing, Loving Christians today...without finding any need, reason, or excuse to explain our FAITH to you, or those who doubt us for our beliefs.
As for your suggestion about BEARING ARMS. You bet. It is also a God given right....as written in the SECOND Amendment.
Have you bothered to read it? It is Inclusive in the Entire Document, and stated as such.
So why do you have a 'god given' right that I do not have? Did god not give everyone the same rights?
aboutime
09-06-2012, 03:43 PM
So why do you have a 'god given' right that I do not have? Did god not give everyone the same rights?
Tell us WHICH One..which God given right DO YOU NOT HAVE Noir? Nobody has taken it away from you. Even if you refuse to accept there is a God who would grant you those rights you claim...you don't have.
Tell us. Who took those rights away from you? And which rights were taken away from you?
When you get the person's name. Contact me here. RIGHT AWAY.
Tell us WHICH One..which God given right DO YOU NOT HAVE Noir? Nobody has taken it away from you. Even if you refuse to accept there is a God who would grant you those rights you claim...you don't have.
Tell us. Who took those rights away from you? And which rights were taken away from you?
When you get the person's name. Contact me here. RIGHT AWAY.
I do not have the right to bear arms.
It was taken away by the state/government.
So if you prescribe to the notion that our rights are 'god given' then you have a right, given to you by god, which I do not have.
Edit - and to further that, what if the 2nd amendment was over thrown in the US by an amendment. Would it still be a 'god given' right?
MtnBiker
09-06-2012, 03:52 PM
Interesting thread drift.
Well anyway, booing God three time on national TV is not a political winner.
jimnyc
09-06-2012, 04:00 PM
So why do you have a 'god given' right that I do not have? Did god not give everyone the same rights?
Here's a good wiki entry explaining the difference between legal rights and natural (God given) rights. It likely won't settle any debates, but it does show that there are more rights than just those created by man.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_given_rights
glockmail
09-06-2012, 04:02 PM
It wouldn't matter if every founding father was deeply theist, and every other line in the constitution mentioned god.
The constitution itself is written by humans, and can be altered by humans. Your rights were decided by humans and can be altered by humans, nothing godly about them.
The foundation of the country has nothing to do with it.
Obviously even the godless Democrat Party doesn't see it that way. Huge, epic fail on your part. :laugh:
glockmail
09-06-2012, 04:04 PM
Rights are granted by humans, simply by being American you have some rights that I do not have, like the right to bear arms. Completely false as Acorn just explained to you. The Constitution (written by man) only serves to guarantee the rights that God gave man.
glockmail
09-06-2012, 04:07 PM
Interesting thread drift.
Well anyway, booing God three time on national TV is not a political winner.
No it's not, and I plan on riding this one for all its worth. :lol:
Little-Acorn
09-06-2012, 05:20 PM
And not one bit of it granted a single right to anybody, anywhere.
It simply acknowledged that our rights were already there, and said that government was forbidden to infringe on them.
Even atheists agree that we have rights regardless of what "people" such as yourself, say. They might say we have them simply as a result of being human and alive, while religious folks say we have them because God said so. The conclusion is the same: We have rights, men didn't create them, and men can't change them or take them away.
Rights are granted by humans, simply by being American you have some rights that I do not have, like the right to bear arms.
Oh, I get it. If you can't refute an argument, you simply ignore it. And repeat your previous position as if it hadn't just been debunked.
I guess I'm not surprised.
Little-Acorn
09-06-2012, 05:23 PM
BTW, people in China have the right to keep and bear arms. Their government is violating that right bigtime, but they still have the right.
True also of people in Chicago and New York City.
Why? Because they are all human.
What their government(s) do, doesn't change that fact... nor does it change the rights that come from that fact.
Kathianne
09-06-2012, 05:48 PM
Interesting thread drift.
Well anyway, booing God three time on national TV is not a political winner.
That does seem a tad out of step. Then too, so is amnesty high fives!
As for the platform and boos, upon some consideration, I'm pretty sure it was more anti-Israel than anti-God. Note they just addressed the title of Jerusalem as capital. Not a non-partioned Jerusalem. The 'isolating' of Hamas and Hezbollah is still removed. No mention of returns only to Palestinian lands, not Israel.
logroller
09-06-2012, 06:01 PM
You are confused about the founding of the United States as well as the Founding Documents. Slavery was a subject of frequent debate and it is not codified into the these documents.
Uh. yeah it was. See: the 3/5 compromise
I believe if you ask a Hindu if he believes in God, he'll say "yes" and the multitude of gods and goddesses are manifestations or incarnations of the One God.
Most religions believe in a god, perhaps all of them. Buddhism in its purest form neither affirms nor denies the existence of God.... so "God" isn't necessarily a reference to YWH, the Judeo-Christian God but to the God that all of mankind worships in one form or another (although I believe personally that YWH is one and the same as that God).
Here is the problem with the atheist. It isn't that he doesn't believe in God, it's that he believes that he has enough information to come to the conclusion that there is no God.
An atheist will require a proof that there is a God, but someone who believes in God will likely take it on faith. The believer seems to know that there are many things that we do not know and will likely never know so concluding that there is no God isn't an option.
That's why many atheists don't convert, they don't seem to understand the idea of faith.
Gandhi (a Hindu) had an interesting take.
http://youtu.be/_SakitCoNYc
Rights are based in legal documents.
Codified rights are based in legal documents.
That rights are not god given, but rather man made.
Rights are made by man...but who made man? Is there not a supreme law of the universe, an inviolable order of all things? and if there is a supreme law, where did it come from if not a supreme law-maker?
I realize faith is an imperceptible thing, but if a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it, experience and reason tell me it made a sound. The reason we possess is what makes faith possible. That faith is God incarnate
Interesting thread drift.
Well anyway, booing God three time on national TV is not a political winner.
I think they were booing the Jerusalem stipulation, not God. I believe they cheered when he mentioned God initially.
glockmail
09-06-2012, 08:43 PM
Uh. yeah it was. See: the 3/5 compromise... That addresses representation. It doesn't codify slavery.
aboutime
09-06-2012, 09:24 PM
I do not have the right to bear arms.
It was taken away by the state/government.
So if you prescribe to the notion that our rights are 'god given' then you have a right, given to you by god, which I do not have.
Edit - and to further that, what if the 2nd amendment was over thrown in the US by an amendment. Would it still be a 'god given' right?
Noir. Why....of course. If you are not living in the USA as a citizen. Then, by all means. You must be right in what you insist. Unfortunately for you. If you do not live here in the USA. All of your arguments were MOOT with me.
My apologies. And now. I question why you choose to live somewhere that you do not enjoy the same rights I, and other Americans enjoy based on our Constitution?
It does, however explain why. So many people from around the world give up...all that they own, as in worldly goods, to come here and become a FREE American.
Think about that. This discussion is over for you.
Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
09-06-2012, 10:23 PM
This action on the part of liberals does not surpise me in the least. As a party, they become more godless day by day. As do many of those who like to fancy themselves as not following any party or religion. If you doubt this, just look at the comments right on this board by such people. They jump at the chance to criticize any Christian activity or belief, and love to "like" any anti-Christian comments. And I am not talking about Abso or Jafar, whose opinins on the subject are understandable.
I think Avi (Avatar) has a really good handle on why this is happening, and Christians will, or at least should, expect it more and more. The irony is that in their dermination to follow no one and "think for themselves", they fall right into step with Bible prophecy.
Bravo---:beer: bravo -:beer: and BRAVO!--Tyr
Dilloduck
09-06-2012, 10:28 PM
This action on the part of liberals does not surpise me in the least. As a party, they become more godless day by day. As do many of those who like to fancy themselves as not following any party or religion. If you doubt this, just look at the comments right on this board by such people. They jump at the chance to criticize any Christian activity or belief, and love to "like" any anti-Christian comments. And I am not talking about Abso or Jafar, whose opinins on the subject are understandable.
I think Avi (Avatar) has a really good handle on why this is happening, and Christians will, or at least should, expect it more and more. The irony is that in their dermination to follow no one and "think for themselves", they fall right into step with Bible prophecy.
New Testament prophecy or Old ?
red states rule
09-07-2012, 02:44 AM
The Dem party has done a John Kerry (who served in Viet Nam)
The Dems for against God before they voted for God
Abbey Marie
09-07-2012, 09:26 AM
New Testament prophecy or Old ?
Matthew 24:10 (NIV)
At that time many will turn away from the faith...
(2 Tim.4:1-4)
“I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his kingdom; Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears: And they shall turn away their ears from thetruth, and shall be turned unto fables”
avatar4321
09-10-2012, 12:09 AM
Why would it not be wise? That sounds vaguely threatening as I read it.
One of the things God dislikes the most is people being ungrateful. Hence, one of the reasons why it's wise to acknowledge Him and His gifts to us. Especially when seeking power over others.
God may not strike you down for ignoring Him or downplaying Him. But that doesnt mean He is actively trying to help you reach your goals either.
avatar4321
09-10-2012, 12:12 AM
That does seem a tad out of step. Then too, so is amnesty high fives!
As for the platform and boos, upon some consideration, I'm pretty sure it was more anti-Israel than anti-God. Note they just addressed the title of Jerusalem as capital. Not a non-partioned Jerusalem. The 'isolating' of Hamas and Hezbollah is still removed. No mention of returns only to Palestinian lands, not Israel.
Seems to me that it's pretty much the same thing. Booing God or God's covenant people... still not a wise idea. Doesnt ever lead to good things.
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