Regulations kill jobs again

[Abbey Marie]

Coal producer Alpha Natural Resources said Tuesday it's cutting production by 16 million tons and eliminating 1,200 jobs companywide, including 400 with the immediate closing of eight mines in Virginia, West Virginia and Pennsylvania.
...
Crutchfield called it "a difficult day," but said the shutdowns and layoffs are a necessary part of ensuring Alpha survives in what has become a difficult U.S. market, where coal companies face a dual challenge: Power plants are shifting to cheap, abundant natural gas, while companies like his face "a regulatory environment that's aggressively aimed at constraining the use of coal."
...
Bristol, Va.-based Alpha will cut production 16 million tons by early 2013 and reduce overhead by $150 million as it shifts away from thermal coal used in domestic power generation to concentrate on metallurgical coal used in steelmaking overseas.
...
About 40 percent of Alpha's production cuts will come from high-cost eastern mines "that are unlikely to be competitive for the foreseeable future," Crutchfield said, while about half will occur in the Powder River Basin. The balance of the cuts will come from lower-quality metallurgical coal.
http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news%2Fnational_world&id=8814773

(Not the focus of the post, but weird how there are mixed mesages on the shift to metallurgical coal).

[Kathianne]

I could be reading this wrong, but seems the point is a shift to exports. Along with an acknowledgment that the use of thermal coal is being replaced by natural gas and pretty much outlawed through regulation of EPA. Of course, those other countries employing folks in the steel mills, there coal burning won't effect us. :rolleyes:

So now layoffs will come to coal industry, steel industry has been decimated for years. Wonder why there's no jobs?

[fj1200]

I could be reading this wrong, but seems the point is a shift to exports. Along with an acknowledgment that the use of thermal coal is being replaced by natural gas and pretty much outlawed through regulation of EPA. Of course, those other countries employing folks in the steel mills, there coal burning won't effect us. :rolleyes:

So now layoffs will come to coal industry, steel industry has been decimated for years. Wonder why there's no jobs?

Good eye but I think the export focus is more a focus on the markets that are left available to them. Our current steel industry, or lack, is a result of regulations/unions issue of decades ago and the power industry is happening now.

We need more Nucor Steels in the world and we need to encourage them.

[Abbey Marie]

I could be reading this wrong, but seems the point is a shift to exports. Along with an acknowledgment that the use of thermal coal is being replaced by natural gas and pretty much outlawed through regulation of EPA. Of course, those other countries employing folks in the steel mills, there coal burning won't effect us. :rolleyes:

So now layoffs will come to coal industry, steel industry has been decimated for years. Wonder why there's no jobs?

That's how I read it, too.

I think the bottom line is that without the government regulating the coal industry to death, the jobs could continue. I am not necessarily a fan of coal-burning, but we need to make the connection one of these days between government interference, higher prices, and loss of jobs. Doesn't seem that difficult... ;)

[SassyLady]

That's how I read it, too.

I think the bottom line is that without the government regulating the coal industry to death, the jobs could continue. I am not necessarily a fan of coal-burning, but we need to make the connection one of these days between government interference, higher prices, and loss of jobs. Doesn't seem that difficult... ;)

A lot of the progressive liberals I talk to here in CA believe the problems with jobs isn't government regulation ... they are still pissed about the deregulation of the 80's .... because they see that as the time American companies started outsourcing to other nations so they could line their greedy pockets with uber amounts of cash at the expense of the "little guy".

They are so pro-OWS that they want a revolution that will destroy corporations. They believe that if corporations want to outsource then the corporation should move to the country that they are sending the jobs to.

[Abbey Marie]

A lot of the progressive liberals I talk to here in CA believe the problems with jobs isn't government regulation ... they are still pissed about the deregulation of the 80's .... because they see that as the time American companies started outsourcing to other nations so they could line their greedy pockets with uber amounts of cash at the expense of the "little guy".

They are so pro-OWS that they want a revolution that will destroy corporations. They believe that if corporations want to outsource then the corporation should move to the country that they are sending the jobs to.

Yes, and let's take that next short step- when gov't owns all forms of industry, we will live in a utopian society. :rolleyes:

[SassyLady]

Yes, and let's take that next short step- when gov't owns all forms of industry, we will live in a utopain society. :rolleyes:

Yep, that is what they are advocating. As if the Government wouldn't walk all over the "little guy" once they nationalize all industries and dictate who gets what when.

It's like talking to a brick wall.

[gabosaurus]

There are reasons why abundant regulations of the coal industry are needed. Ask any retired (voluntarily or otherwise) coal miner and they will tell you. We need cleaner and more efficient fuel sources.

[Abbey Marie]

There are reasons why abundant regulations of the coal industry are needed. Ask any retired (voluntarily or otherwise) coal miner and they will tell you. We need cleaner and more efficient fuel sources.

I suspect these regulations go beyond health and safety of miners.

[SassyLady]

Compliance with government regulations and the paperwork that is required is rapidly becoming the largest percentage of overhead expense.

[aboutime]

There are reasons why abundant regulations of the coal industry are needed. Ask any retired (voluntarily or otherwise) coal miner and they will tell you. We need cleaner and more efficient fuel sources.


Gabby. Wouldn't you really like to know the truth?

Instead of you coming here to tell us WHAT YOU THINK about the reasons.
How bout you actually talk to a West Virginia Coal Miner, and get it straight from the horse's mouth, instead of repeating the endless, liberal talking points...I HAVE BEEN READING for years.

[red states rule]

Well at least Obama is keeping one campaugn promise




So, if somebody wants to build a coal plant, they can — it’s just that it will bankrupt them, because they are going to be charged a huge sum for all that greenhouse gas that’s being emitted.

Obama in 2008

[Abbey Marie]

Well at least Obama is keeping one campaugn promise


So, if somebody wants to build a coal plant, they can — it’s just that it will bankrupt them, because they are going to be charged a huge sum for all that greenhouse gas that’s being emitted. Obama in 2008




There you go. :salute:

[gabosaurus]

As a bona fide liberal tree hugger, I believe our environment deserves to be protected. When my daughter is old enough to do the same traveling I have always enjoyed, I want her to see natural forests and breathe clean air. I don't want her kids to endure the disgrace of strip mined landfills and clear cut forests that have diminished what was once an area of beauty.

If you want to experience a country where profit has always come before people, go to Mexico. Or parts of Africa and South America.

I am guessing that if some of you had your way, American industry would return to the unsafe sweatshops of the early 1900s and mining enterprises where people died every day.

We need more safe jobs, not just more jobs.

[tailfins]

As a bona fide liberal tree hugger, I believe our environment deserves to be protected. When my daughter is old enough to do the same traveling I have always enjoyed, I want her to see natural forests and breathe clean air. I don't want her kids to endure the disgrace of strip mined landfills and clear cut forests that have diminished what was once an area of beauty.

If you want to experience a country where profit has always come before people, go to Mexico. Or parts of Africa and South America.

I am guessing that if some of you had your way, American industry would return to the unsafe sweatshops of the early 1900s and mining enterprises where people died every day.

We need more safe jobs, not just more jobs.

Cookie cutter regulations are the lazy way out. When you start demanding jobs meet a long list of restrictions (green, safe [physically and emotionally], socially responsible, diverse, union, etc.), you will get NO jobs. We ALREADY have sweatshops in the US: They are called "per diem consulting". The best defense against undesirable job conditions is a strong economy where employees are easily able to tell their boss to get lost. Government is NOT the answer. When is the last time you put YOUR job on the line to defend someone being "managed out"? Or did you just sit quiet, deciding not to "rock the boat". Calling on government or even a union to better the workplace is a coward's way out. Get some skin in the game.

P.S. Don't confuse per diem expenses with per diem consulting. Per diem consulting means you get perhaps $200 per day, no matter how many hours you work. The pressure is to put in 12 hour days.

[Robert A Whit]

A lot of the progressive liberals I talk to here in CA believe the problems with jobs isn't government regulation ... they are still pissed about the deregulation of the 80's .... because they see that as the time American companies started outsourcing to other nations so they could line their greedy pockets with uber amounts of cash at the expense of the "little guy".

They are so pro-OWS that they want a revolution that will destroy corporations. They believe that if corporations want to outsource then the corporation should move to the country that they are sending the jobs to.

I too have seen this happen to this state.

Remember how it seems we started the wind power? And of course that was fought by the ecofreaks.

Now don't get me wrong. I love pristine. But one wonders why people claiming to love it walk by my office and dump trash in the landscaping all the time? I refuse to dump trash in other than sites that are for trash. Yet I have watched some eat pizza from the store next door and I end up with their trash. I have seen some park their rumps on my front steps and gobble down pizza. I told the store owner to put out a trash can. Course he won't do that.

I have seen so much regulation here in this state it makes me want to rolf my lunch.

Anyway, look what happened to this state. Do we care about water for crops in the Klamath River area? Well no. Salmon got the nod. Bush got hated when he finally stepped in to help working farmers. How dare he save working farmers by them getting water?

Now we have a tiny fish called smelt. Well, to heck with the farmers one more time and the water is almost shut off to the farmers to save the smelt. Got that?

Review. Fish great ... humans pretty poor part of nature. Who wants humans to work anyway and earn a living?

[red states rule]

As a bona fide liberal tree hugger, I believe our environment deserves to be protected. When my daughter is old enough to do the same traveling I have always enjoyed, I want her to see natural forests and breathe clean air. I don't want her kids to endure the disgrace of strip mined landfills and clear cut forests that have diminished what was once an area of beauty.

If you want to experience a country where profit has always come before people, go to Mexico. Or parts of Africa and South America.

I assuming that if some of you had your way, American industry would return to the unsafe sweatshops of the early 1900s and mining enterprises where people died every day.

We need more safe jobs, not just more jobs.

Who the hell is talking about brining back sweat shops?

Gabby, you always remind us that you are one of the "smart" people but you reaaly are nothing but a damn drama Queen who has to fall back on the melodramaztics

I guess you do not give a damn about the miners who are now out of work and have spent most of their lives going miles into the Earth to get the coal that perhaps keeps the lights on in your Ivory Tower

I know damn well you would never lower yourself to talk to thse unwashed, uneducated hicks - so perhaps you will read about them and perhaps you will understand what Obama has done to these men and thier families




Regulatory actions by President Barack Obama and his appointees and followers were cited as the entire reason. “Mr. Obama has already destroyed 83,000 megawatts of coal-fired electricity generation in America,” said Mr. Michael T. W. Carey, Vice President of Government Affairs for Murray Energy. “Electric prices in the recent PJM Interconnection monthly auction were bid up 800 percent (8 times) for 2015-2016 because of this,” he added.

“At its peak, OhioAmerican employed 239 local people in high-paying, well-benefited jobs,” said Mr. Stanley T. Piasecki, General Manager and Superintendent. “University studies show that our Mines can create up to eleven (11) secondary jobs in our communities, for store clerks, teachers, etc., to serve our direct employees. Thus, if one uses the eleven (11) to one (1) multiplier, the Obama Administration has destroyed 2,868 jobs in eastern Ohio with this forced Mine closure,” stated Mr. Piasecki.

“This is a sad day for all of us, and particularly Mr. Robert E. Murray, the Founder of OhioAmerican,” said Mr. Piasecki. “He is so distraught that he came to the Mine and personally announced the layoffs to each of the employees,” he added.

“Mr. Murray created OhioAmerican, and our production began in May, 2007,” said Mr. Piasecki. The Mine was intended to last for at least ten (10) years. Now we have been forced by our own Country’s President and his followers and supporters to permanently close the operation,” added Mr. Piasecki.

“Fortunately,” said Mr. Ryan M. Murray, Vice President of Operations, “we will be able to eventually employ thirty-two (32) of the OhioAmerican employees at another operation of Murray Energy, when their work is finished at their existing Mine.” “But, these thirty-two (32) people will fill jobs that would have gone to others,” said Mr. Murray. “Therefore, considering this, we have lost all of the jobs at OhioAmerican, and we are deeply saddened,” he added.

http://www.humanevents.com/2012/08/01/obama-regulations-kill-ohio-coal-mine-hundreds-of-jobs-wiped-out/

[Robert A Whit]

There are reasons why abundant regulations of the coal industry are needed. Ask any retired (voluntarily or otherwise) coal miner and they will tell you. We need cleaner and more efficient fuel sources.

Seems that so long as they are not being regulated, they fall in love with others being regulated.

We ought to fight government. Nothing comes close to having power as does Government.

When one has power, it is corrupting. While Government laid out the path in the founding, it was to maximize human freedom, not remove it.

Often the unhealthy environment is due to government.

Take areas where ships are made or based. Those ships contaminate. And guess who owns the navy ships? Treasure Island was long ran by the Navy so why did the Navy contaminate so much?

I remember when the San Francisco Bay smelled of raw sewage?

Who do Liberals allege is in charge of sewers?

So, why did it take millions of dollars to fix those sewers that Liberals put themselves in charge of?

[tailfins]

Who the hell is talking about brining back sweat shops?

Gabby, you always remind us that you are one of the "smart" people but you reaaly are nothing but a damn drama Queen who has to fall back on the melodramaztics

I guess you do not give a damn about the miners who are now out of work and have spent most of their lives going miles into the Earth to get the coal that perhaps keeps the lights on in your Ivory Tower

I know damn well you would never lower yourself to talk to thse unwashed, uneducated hicks - so perhaps you will read about them and perhaps you will understand what Obama has done to these men and thier families

Need I point out that an Education degree is often referred to as an MRS degree? In other words, not serious study so the student can use school to find a husband that studies for real with good potential earning power.

[gabosaurus]

Need I point out that an Education degree is often referred to as an MRS degree? In other words, not serious study so the student can use school to find a husband that studies for real with good potential earning power.

Who let you out of the 1950's?
Obviously spoken by someone with no education and no family. Perhaps you forgot to study and it ruined any chance for you to develop good earning power.
My degree is in Adolescent Psychology, by the way.
My husband did Finance, which allowed him to find a wife that studied for real with good potential earning power. :p

[red states rule]

Who let you out of the 1950's?
Obviously spoken by someone with no education and no family. Perhaps you forgot to study and it ruined any chance for you to develop good earning power.
My degree is in Adolescent Psychology, by the way.
My husband did Finance, which allowed him to find a wife that studied for real with good potential earning power. :p

Why is it when pressed you always feel you must remind us you graduated the CA Institute of Snobbery?

For someone with so much "education" you can not debate your way out of a wet paper bag. But you are an expert at getting "bored" and running away

[sundaydriver]

Due to living on the East Coat where most of the coal fired plants are I se the health effects of the coal fired plants. The health costs related to the emissions are in the billions for the people and insurance companies in these areas and studies show that the added energy costs of doing away with coal and the laxly regulated disposal of flyash would be equal or less than the savings in health costs and health to the people.

As far as jobs lost it seems that the production of natural gas has created a hell of a lot of better jobs. Ever notice that coal mines are only located in the poorest areas where people are too poor to complain?

So are regulations in this causing loss of jobs as the OP so greedily implies, or is it saving lives and costs?

Here is a 52 year old coal powered plant just 7 miles north of me that causes havoc for morthern New Jersey where the emissions blow to. It's beeing shut down in 2 years after not being updated in 20 years.

Editorial: Closure of Portland Generating Station in Pa. comes with a breath of relief


http://www.nj.com/times-opinion/index.ssf/2012/03/editorial_closure_of_portland.html (http://www.nj.com/times-opinion/index.ssf/2012/03/editorial_closure_of_portland.html)


But the multiple billions of dollars of health care costs that are incurred every year due to dirty coal far exceed any cost increases we might see in our electric bills.


http://www.foxnews.com/health/2012/06/06/why-mining-and-burning-coal-could-slowly-be-killing-us/ (http://www.foxnews.com/health/2012/06/06/why-mining-and-burning-coal-could-slowly-be-killing-us/)