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View Full Version : Peggy Noonan WSJ article 10/26



Robert A Whit
10-27-2012, 04:35 PM
I did not post the first part of her article but included her last paragraph where she had discussed what happened to Obama in Denver where Romney whomped him good.

But the last part where she talks about Woodwards book is enlightening. It matches my thinking of Obama since he was sworn in.

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That, anyway, is the view expressed this week by a member of the U.S. Senate who served there with Mr Obama and has met with him in the White House. People back home, he said, sometimes wonder what happened with the president in the debate. The senator said, I paraphrase: I sort of have to tell them that it wasn't a miscalculation or a weird moment. I tell them: I know him, and that was him. That guy on the stage, that's the real Obama.
***Which gets us to Bob Woodward's "The Price of Politics," published last month. The portrait it contains of Mr. Obama—of a president who is at once over his head, out of his depth and wholly unaware of the fact—hasn't received the attention it deserves. Throughout the book, which is a journalistic history of the president's key economic negotiations with Capitol Hill, Mr. Obama is portrayed as having the appearance and presentation of an academic or intellectual while being strangely clueless in his reading of political situations and dynamics. He is bad at negotiating—in fact doesn't know how. His confidence is consistently greater than his acumen, his arrogance greater than his grasp.
He misread his Republican opponents from day one. If he had been large-spirited and conciliatory he would have effectively undercut them, and kept them from uniting. (If he'd been large-spirited with Mr. Romney, he would have undercut him, too.) Instead he was toughly partisan, he shut them out, and positions hardened. In time Republicans came to think he doesn't really listen, doesn't really hear. So did some Democrats.
Business leaders and mighty CEOs felt patronized: After inviting them to meet with him, the president read from a teleprompter and included the press. They felt like "window dressing." One spoke of Obama's surface polish and essential remoteness. In negotiation he did not cajole, seduce, muscle or win sympathy. He instructed.
He claimed deep understanding of his adversaries and their motives but was often incorrect. He told staffers that John Boehner, one of 11 children of a small-town bar owner, was a "country club Republican." He was often patronizing, which in the old and accomplished is irritating but in the young and inexperienced is infuriating. "Boehner said he hated going down to the White House to listen to what amounted to presidential lectures," Mr. Woodward writes.
Mr. Obama's was a White House that had—and showed—no respect for trying to negotiate with other Republicans. Through it all he was confident—"Eric, don't call my bluff"—because he believed, as did his staff, that his talents would save the day.
They saved nothing. Washington became immobilized.
Mr. Woodward's portrait of the president is not precisely new—it has been drawn in other ways in other accounts, and has been a staple of D.C. gossip for three years now—but it is vivid and believable. And there's probably a direct line between that portrait and the Obama seen in the first debate. Maybe that's what made it so indelible, and such an arc-changer.
People saw for the first time an Obama they may have heard about on radio or in a newspaper but had never seen.
They didn't see some odd version of the president. They saw the president.
And they didn't like what they saw, and that would linger.

aboutime
10-27-2012, 05:30 PM
Robert. As both you, and I know. With many other members here. It is a sad truth about how Little, or Narrow the number of actual Book readers is today in our nation.
I even admit. I have allowed the Internet to take the place of sitting quietly in a comfortable chair, while reading.

And that appears to be a nationwide Sickness...if you will. Combined with Instant gratification, laziness, and the need to have entertainment replace Learning. The Internet is both a great, and somewhat dangerous place to visit since writers like Noonan, and Woodward no longer enjoy being well-known. Outside of the limited population that actually cares about Politics.

This is also why, and how. Americans were so easily convinced to vote for a total Unknown, Inexperienced, Pretender like Obama.

Kathianne
10-28-2012, 12:46 AM
I must admit to being a 'former fan of Noonan's.' She was one of my 'go to' for years, but she became unhinged around 2004, went all in for Obama in 2008. Her 'waling it back' lacks conviction.

However. any discussion of Woodward's book is worthy of notice. I heard today that Woodward is a 'life-long Democrat', sorry, not buying that. He might be a moderate, but he's a conservative moderate.

He is a realistic reporter and respected one. When he basically claim 'narcissism' as a trait of Obama, one can take that to the bank.


I did not post the first part of her article but included her last paragraph where she had discussed what happened to Obama in Denver where Romney whomped him good.

But the last part where she talks about Woodwards book is enlightening. It matches my thinking of Obama since he was sworn in.

************************
That, anyway, is the view expressed this week by a member of the U.S. Senate who served there with Mr Obama and has met with him in the White House. People back home, he said, sometimes wonder what happened with the president in the debate. The senator said, I paraphrase: I sort of have to tell them that it wasn't a miscalculation or a weird moment. I tell them: I know him, and that was him. That guy on the stage, that's the real Obama.
***

Which gets us to Bob Woodward's "The Price of Politics," published last month. The portrait it contains of Mr. Obama—of a president who is at once over his head, out of his depth and wholly unaware of the fact—hasn't received the attention it deserves. Throughout the book, which is a journalistic history of the president's key economic negotiations with Capitol Hill, Mr. Obama is portrayed as having the appearance and presentation of an academic or intellectual while being strangely clueless in his reading of political situations and dynamics. He is bad at negotiating—in fact doesn't know how. His confidence is consistently greater than his acumen, his arrogance greater than his grasp.
He misread his Republican opponents from day one. If he had been large-spirited and conciliatory he would have effectively undercut them, and kept them from uniting. (If he'd been large-spirited with Mr. Romney, he would have undercut him, too.) Instead he was toughly partisan, he shut them out, and positions hardened. In time Republicans came to think he doesn't really listen, doesn't really hear. So did some Democrats.
Business leaders and mighty CEOs felt patronized: After inviting them to meet with him, the president read from a teleprompter and included the press. They felt like "window dressing." One spoke of Obama's surface polish and essential remoteness. In negotiation he did not cajole, seduce, muscle or win sympathy. He instructed.
He claimed deep understanding of his adversaries and their motives but was often incorrect. He told staffers that John Boehner, one of 11 children of a small-town bar owner, was a "country club Republican." He was often patronizing, which in the old and accomplished is irritating but in the young and inexperienced is infuriating. "Boehner said he hated going down to the White House to listen to what amounted to presidential lectures," Mr. Woodward writes.
Mr. Obama's was a White House that had—and showed—no respect for trying to negotiate with other Republicans. Through it all he was confident—"Eric, don't call my bluff"—because he believed, as did his staff, that his talents would save the day.
They saved nothing. Washington became immobilized.
Mr. Woodward's portrait of the president is not precisely new—it has been drawn in other ways in other accounts, and has been a staple of D.C. gossip for three years now—but it is vivid and believable. And there's probably a direct line between that portrait and the Obama seen in the first debate. Maybe that's what made it so indelible, and such an arc-changer.
People saw for the first time an Obama they may have heard about on radio or in a newspaper but had never seen.
They didn't see some odd version of the president. They saw the president.
And they didn't like what they saw, and that would linger.

Robert A Whit
10-28-2012, 01:48 AM
When Peggy turned on Bush, I figured, heck with her. Give her the finger and move on.

Now, apparently she got enlightened too late.

She found out that as many of us proclaimed, take away his teleprompter and the man has no brains.

When I found out in 1008 ahead of the election that the top speech writer for Obama was carefully schooled by the same man that wrote Kennedy's speeches, I says, wow, no wonder Obama talks so well. He has a maestro crafting his sentences.

Look what happens to Obama with no prompters.

The man is plain Jane.

A terrible man to endure. I flip him off when he starts talking. Why listen to an emplty suit?

Kathianne
10-28-2012, 02:03 AM
When Peggy turned on Bush, I figured, heck with her. Give her the finger and move on.

Now, apparently she got enlightened too late.

She found out that as many of us proclaimed, take away his teleprompter and the man has no brains.

When I found out in 1008 ahead of the election that the top speech writer for Obama was carefully schooled by the same man that wrote Kennedy's speeches, I says, wow, no wonder Obama talks so well. He has a maestro crafting his sentences.

Look what happens to Obama with no prompters.

The man is plain Jane.

A terrible man to endure. I flip him off when he starts talking. Why listen to an emplty suit?

Wow! Before the Battle of Hastings! Shazaam!

mundame
10-28-2012, 09:20 AM
Very interesting! I'm a great fan of Peggy Noonan's, read her op-ed in the Friday WSJ regularly.

I'll see about putting the Woodward book on my Kindle app, and thanx for the book review. I had not heard of it, somehow.

Robert A Whit
10-28-2012, 04:04 PM
When Peggy turned on Bush, I figured, heck with her. Give her the finger and move on.

Now, apparently she got enlightened too late.

She found out that as many of us proclaimed, take away his teleprompter and the man has no brains.

When I found out in 1008 ahead of the election that the top speech writer for Obama was carefully schooled by the same man that wrote Kennedy's speeches, I says, wow, no wonder Obama talks so well. He has a maestro crafting his sentences.

Look what happens to Obama with no prompters.

The man is plain Jane.

A terrible man to endure. I flip him off when he starts talking. Why listen to an emplty suit?

NOTE:
By flip him off, I mean change channels. LOL

I don't make crude gestures to my own TV set. Does no good. LOL

Kathianne
10-28-2012, 04:28 PM
Very interesting! I'm a great fan of Peggy Noonan's, read her op-ed in the Friday WSJ regularly.

I'll see about putting the Woodward book on my Kindle app, and thanx for the book review. I had not heard of it, somehow.

I'm not surprised. BTW, anyone here that is long-timer, will tell you I used to post her columns regularly on the old site. Then she got muddled.

mundame
10-28-2012, 04:52 PM
I'm not surprised. BTW, anyone here that is long-timer, will tell you I used to post her columns regularly on the old site. Then she got muddled.


What in general would you say she got muddled about?

Kathianne
10-28-2012, 05:07 PM
What in general would you say she got muddled about?

What's important for Americans. Not perception, but real import.

mundame
10-29-2012, 08:26 AM
And what would that be?