View Full Version : Now you can explain housing crisis
Robert A Whit
11-14-2012, 04:14 AM
Now watch the video and set aside a bit more than 60 minutes.
I am in the home business so I knew for a long time why things went wrong.
After this, you can explain just what took down the economy.
I urge you to think as you watch this, just how do we reverse housing losses.
If Obama figures it out, the economy will get better. Romney understands this.
http://www.c-span.org/Events/Fmr-HUD-Economist-Fannie-amp-Freddie-To-Blame-for-Financial-Crisis/10737431085-1/
fj1200
11-14-2012, 02:23 PM
I am in the home business so I knew for a long time why things went wrong.
So the home business is a good place to understand expansionist Federal Reserve policies that led to an oversupply of liquidity that found its way into the housing market causing a bubble in home values only to be burst by mark-to-market rules? Home values were a symptom and not the cause IMO.
Kathianne
11-14-2012, 02:50 PM
So the home business is a good place to understand expansionist Federal Reserve policies that led to an oversupply of liquidity that found its way into the housing market causing a bubble in home values only to be burst by mark-to-market rules? Home values were a symptom and not the cause IMO.
Thanks for saving me the time of watching. I was wondering why Robert couldn't do something similar.
fj1200
11-14-2012, 03:01 PM
Thanks for saving me the time of watching. I was wondering why Robert couldn't do something similar.
I didn't watch either but one look at the headline told me all I needed to know.
Robert A Whit
11-14-2012, 03:02 PM
So the home business is a good place to understand expansionist Federal Reserve policies that led to an oversupply of liquidity that found its way into the housing market causing a bubble in home values only to be burst by mark-to-market rules? Home values were a symptom and not the cause IMO.
To a degree that is true. Actually there was no bubble in home prices. To presume a bubble means one must define some so called peak price as the only valid peak price. I have heard since I got my first license in 1971 that some peak price had been reached and that this time (many times in fact) the bubble was about to burst and now housing sucked as an investment. I have to count up the number of times I was told this by other so called experts. LOL Mark to Market only hurt once prices fell. So long as they kept rising, there was nothing in that rule that automatically spelled doom.
Tell you this much. Why didn't you spend the hour and hear what that expert economist had to say?
aboutime
11-14-2012, 03:03 PM
Now watch the video and set aside a bit more than 60 minutes.
I am in the home business so I knew for a long time why things went wrong.
After this, you can explain just what took down the economy.
I urge you to think as you watch this, just how do we reverse housing losses.
If Obama figures it out, the economy will get better. Romney understands this.
http://www.c-span.org/Events/Fmr-HUD-Economist-Fannie-amp-Freddie-To-Blame-for-Financial-Crisis/10737431085-1/
Bob. The lending, and home loan business is so bad. Our mortgage company keeps sending us OFFERS to re-write our Mortgage. We are at TWO PERCENT, and they think I am dumb enough to refinance at 2.5???
Haven't missed a payment in five years. I knew what was happening with FANNY and FREDDY during the Bush years, when he tried to stop, or change Barney Frank, and Chris Dodd's insistence about how WONDERFUL those Faulty Loans to Unqualified people were.
revelarts
11-14-2012, 03:06 PM
and for a the rest of the story and some counter point..
"Former Assistant Secretary of Housing under George H.W. Bush Catherine Austin Fitts blows the whistle on how the financial terrorists have deliberately imploded the US economy and transferred gargantuan amounts of wealth offshore as a means of sacrificing the American middle class. Fitts documents how trillions of dollars went missing from government coffers in the 90's and how she was personally targeted for exposing the fraud."
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/gP6rny-E1Cw?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Kathianne
11-14-2012, 03:06 PM
Bob. The lending, and home loan business is so bad. Our mortgage company keeps sending us OFFERS to re-write our Mortgage. We are at TWO PERCENT, and they think I am dumb enough to refinance at 2.5???
Haven't missed a payment in five years. I knew what was happening with FANNY and FREDDY during the Bush years, when he tried to stop, or change Barney Frank, and Chris Dodd's insistence about how WONDERFUL those Faulty Loans to Unqualified people were.
Yep. The crisis was written about in detail in Reckless Endangerment, by Gretchen Morgenson. She explained how Bush tried and failed to stop what was going on. Pretty good for a NYT writer.
fj1200
11-14-2012, 03:07 PM
To a degree that is true. Actually there was no bubble in home prices. To presume a bubble means one must define some so called peak price...
Tell you this much. Why didn't you spend the hour and hear what that expert economist had to say?
While I don't like the term bubble because values generally account for all information available at the time and can only be ascertained after the burst, in this case it's probably appropriate because of the effective "popping" that occurred and the Fed's undeniable role in creating a bubble.
I didn't watch it because it was likely to be a rehash of the unseen effects of Fed policy IMO. If you'd like to provide some cliff notes I will certainly reevaluate my position. ;)
fj1200
11-14-2012, 03:09 PM
Bob. The lending, and home loan business is so bad. Our mortgage company keeps sending us OFFERS to re-write our Mortgage. We are at TWO PERCENT, and they think I am dumb enough to refinance at 2.5???
Well that would depend if you've got an ARM that's about to float now wouldn't it?
Robert A Whit
11-14-2012, 03:09 PM
Thanks for saving me the time of watching. I was wondering why Robert couldn't do something similar.
One would have thought that of the two, at least Kathianne would have had the curiousity of intellect to really watch the video.
I over estimated that gals smarts. The dude though, I figured he would not understand it.
The video is found on CSPAN and the speaker is a economist and had worked for FNMA.
I believe that on this forum, there is at least 2 maybe up to 4 who will want to watch the video so they understand what happened and learn some warning signs.
The dude who is not curious spoke of oversupply of capital promoted at the Fed Reserve. That happens to be true.
When Bush was president, I had noticed the sudden speed up of capital formation by the Feds and I think it was around 2007 or before that I sounded the alarm on a AOL forum that is closed forever.
Kathianne
11-14-2012, 03:10 PM
One would have thought that of the two, at least Kathianne would have had the curiousity of intellect to really watch the video.
I over estimated that gals smarts. The dude though, I figured he would not understand it.
The video is found on CSPAN and the speaker is a economist and had worked for FNMA.
I believe that on this forum, there is at least 2 maybe up to 4 who will want to watch the video so they understand what happened and learn some warning signs.
The dude who is not curious spoke of oversupply of capital promoted at the Fed Reserve. That happens to be true.
When Bush was president, I had noticed the sudden speed up of capital formation by the Feds and I think it was around 2007 or before that I sounded the alarm on a AOL forum that is closed forever.
Seriously Robert, before most of us will give up an hour, we want to know why it's worth it. Telling me someone creds, just isn't enough.
Robert A Whit
11-14-2012, 03:15 PM
Bob. The lending, and home loan business is so bad. Our mortgage company keeps sending us OFFERS to re-write our Mortgage. We are at TWO PERCENT, and they think I am dumb enough to refinance at 2.5???
Haven't missed a payment in five years. I knew what was happening with FANNY and FREDDY during the Bush years, when he tried to stop, or change Barney Frank, and Chris Dodd's insistence about how WONDERFUL those Faulty Loans to Unqualified people were.
The loan business is nothing like it was during 2007 and I fear that for the young buyers, they will be forced to save 20 percent down plus closing costs. I am sure some sellers will pay as much of the closing costs as FNMA allows. If a person owns a home with tons of equity and has top credit, they can take advantage of the low rates.
I thought I ought to include the CSPAN video showing as you said what Frank and Dodd did.
I figured that till now, nobody but me had seen that CSPAN video I posted the link to by the former FNMA top economist. As an insider, he knows what happened. There is another expert cited and on the fixes he too runs counter to democrat propaganda. If anybody takes the word of democrats as to causes, woe to them. They are easily fooled.
aboutime
11-14-2012, 03:16 PM
Seriously Robert, before most of us will give up an hour, we want to know why it's worth it. Telling me someone creds, just isn't enough.
Bob. Listen to Kathianne. She, like I like to think. Already knew, or knows of the mismanagement that took place, long before that UNPOPULAR Housing Bubble burst.
I like to think that most of us here on this forum, are far more informed about what political dealings have, and are taking place. More so than the Larger percentage of Uninformed Americans...like those who simply voted for Obama. Without understanding, or even bothering to learn the ACTUAL FACTS.
Even those people here whom I disagree with most of the time are far more informed than the tiniest percentage of voters who put Obama in for the SECOND WORSE FOUR YEARS.
Robert A Whit
11-14-2012, 03:21 PM
Seriously Robert, before most of us will give up an hour, we want to know why it's worth it. Telling me someone creds, just isn't enough.
I realize one must be intellectually curious or they will fall back on lazy.
Give the video 5 minutes to 10 minutes and by that time you will realize it is the truth.
aboutime
11-14-2012, 03:23 PM
I realize one must be intellectually curious or they will fall back on lazy.
Give the video 5 minutes to 10 minutes and by that time you will realize it is the truth.
Bob. What Kathianne, and I are trying to tell you is. You are preaching to the choir. Little doubt in my mind about the Truth.
Robert A Whit
11-14-2012, 03:25 PM
Bob. Listen to Kathianne. She, like I like to think. Already knew, or knows of the mismanagement that took place, long before that UNPOPULAR Housing Bubble burst.
I like to think that most of us here on this forum, are far more informed about what political dealings have, and are taking place. More so than the Larger percentage of Uninformed Americans...like those who simply voted for Obama. Without understanding, or even bothering to learn the ACTUAL FACTS.
Even those people here whom I disagree with most of the time are far more informed than the tiniest percentage of voters who put Obama in for the SECOND WORSE FOUR YEARS.
She did not even glimpse at it. She thanked Dude FJ for swaying her to not watch it. He did not watch it.
You must not have watched it either. The video is not some rehash of stuff you know.
While he does a lot of detail, and of course does not miss Dodd Frank, etc, I believe that it is of use to some of the posters.
As to this forum being well informed. Sure. That is why I held off to see if anybody else knew of this and I figured if one does not watch tons of CSPAN this video could easily slip between the cracks.
Kathianne
11-14-2012, 03:25 PM
Bob. What Kathianne, and I are trying to tell you is. You are preaching to the choir. Little doubt in my mind about the Truth.
Indeed and Fj too. We have read and listened to credible sources, Robert believes he has another. I gave up probably 10 hours reading Morgenson's book, would take a lot for me to give up another hour.
aboutime
11-14-2012, 03:34 PM
She did not even glimpse at it. She thanked Dude FJ for swaying her to not watch it. He did not watch it.
You must not have watched it either. The video is not some rehash of stuff you know.
While he does a lot of detail, and of course does not miss Dodd Frank, etc, I believe that it is of use to some of the posters.
As to this forum being well informed. Sure. That is why I held off to see if anybody else knew of this and I figured if one does not watch tons of CSPAN this video could easily slip between the cracks.
Bob. I wish I had time to watch C-SPAN. However. My wife and I have a Life, and it's not all dedicated to staring at the TV all day.
I used to watch C-SPAN almost every day for years. Then I learned it wasn't good for my blood pressure when C-span seemed to take a divisive turn to the Left. Even on the weekends with their BOOK series.
So. You cannot lecture me about WHAT you suggest I should watch in order to become more informed.
I'm still waiting for Mister Obama's Promise of Placing everything HE did on C-span...which HE DENIED after being caught as a liar.
Funny, but True...OBAMA IS A CONFIRMED LIAR. Nothing C-SPAN can do to change that.
Robert A Whit
11-14-2012, 03:37 PM
Bob. What Kathianne, and I are trying to tell you is. You are preaching to the choir. Little doubt in my mind about the Truth.
Tell you guys what. I will give you all a short test and I will see who will stand out and be correct on this then. Maybe some of you do understand it other than the stuff about what Bush did and what Dodd and Frank did. I Know all about what they did.
Note to all. I dunno about you guys but when I run into a genuine expert, I ask questions. I am that expert on this board said very humbly.
How can I make that claim?
I have years of experience in all phases of real estate.
I was a salesman for 2 years.
I became a Broker with much more knowledge than salesmen have after the requisite courses in college along with experience and high production. My goal was to not be a repeater of a years experience. I constantly worked hard on my education.
I appraised property starting in 1975 and had my professional appraisers license until 1997.
That also required me to take more college level courses.
I was sharp in loans yet until I owned my own lending firm, I still had more to learn. I learned by even more courses and tons of experience.
I plan to make the test very simple.
I am not trying to be a smart alec. I am not trying to hold myself up as superior. It is just my field and I have been in this field for over 40 years.
Test. (true or false)
FNMA is the king pin rule maker.
FNMA has it's hands all over the sales of homes from top to bottom.
Appraisers speak of FNMA in their appraisal reports.
FNMA can make or break the housing market.
I don't want to do more than find out what you know.
I hope I get some honest answers to a simple true/false test.
Kathianne
11-14-2012, 03:39 PM
Tell you guys what. I will give you all a short test and I will see who will stand out and be correct on this then. Maybe some of you do understand it other than the stuff about what Bush did and what Dodd and Frank did. I Know all about what they did.
Note to all. I dunno about you guys but when I run into a genuine expert, I ask questions. I am that expert on this board said very humbly.
How can I make that claim?
I have years of experience in all phases of real estate.
I was a salesman for 2 years.
I became a Broker with much more knowledge than salesmen have after the requisite courses in college along with experience and high production. My goal was to not be a repeater of a years experience. I constantly worked hard on my education.
I appraised property starting in 1975 and had my professional appraisers license until 1997.
That also required me to take more college level courses.
I was sharp in loans yet until I owned my own lending firm, I still had more to learn. I learned by even more courses and tons of experience.
I plan to make the test very simple.
I am not trying to be a smart alec. I am not trying to hold myself up as superior. It is just my field and I have been in this field for over 40 years.
Test. (true or false)
FNMA is the king pin rule maker.
FNMA has it's hands all over the sales of homes from top to bottom.
Appraisers speak of FNMA in their appraisal reports.
FNMA can make or break the housing market.
I don't want to do more than find out what you know.
I hope I get some honest answers to a simple true/false test.
Yes, you are. That's the problem Robert, you don't attempt to discuss, you pontificate. Tell you what, when you have a PhD in sociology, political science, or history, I'll consider your tests. I may even consider your viewing suggestions or demands.
aboutime
11-14-2012, 03:44 PM
Tell you guys what. I will give you all a short test and I will see who will stand out and be correct on this then. Maybe some of you do understand it other than the stuff about what Bush did and what Dodd and Frank did. I Know all about what they did.
Note to all. I dunno about you guys but when I run into a genuine expert, I ask questions. I am that expert on this board said very humbly.
How can I make that claim?
I have years of experience in all phases of real estate.
I was a salesman for 2 years.
I became a Broker with much more knowledge than salesmen have after the requisite courses in college along with experience and high production. My goal was to not be a repeater of a years experience. I constantly worked hard on my education.
I appraised property starting in 1975 and had my professional appraisers license until 1997.
That also required me to take more college level courses.
I was sharp in loans yet until I owned my own lending firm, I still had more to learn. I learned by even more courses and tons of experience.
I plan to make the test very simple.
I am not trying to be a smart alec. I am not trying to hold myself up as superior. It is just my field and I have been in this field for over 40 years.
Test. (true or false)
FNMA is the king pin rule maker.
FNMA has it's hands all over the sales of homes from top to bottom.
Appraisers speak of FNMA in their appraisal reports.
FNMA can make or break the housing market.
I don't want to do more than find out what you know.
I hope I get some honest answers to a simple true/false test.
BOB. I do not take tests. UNLESS...you pay me, and it increases my annual earnings.
Robert A Whit
11-14-2012, 03:44 PM
Bob. I wish I had time to watch C-SPAN. However. My wife and I have a Life, and it's not all dedicated to staring at the TV all day.
I used to watch C-SPAN almost every day for years. Then I learned it wasn't good for my blood pressure when C-span seemed to take a divisive turn to the Left. Even on the weekends with their BOOK series.
So. You cannot lecture me about WHAT you suggest I should watch in order to become more informed.
I'm still waiting for Mister Obama's Promise of Placing everything HE did on C-span...which HE DENIED after being caught as a liar.
Funny, but True...OBAMA IS A CONFIRMED LIAR. Nothing C-SPAN can do to change that.
I get tired of reading posts where so called well informed posters simply lack the knowledge to argue their points thus I knew of this actual expert report that actually cuts across the democrats grain and tells the honest truth. I understand that only the curious will watch the video because they want to learn. They have time.
Not all have all of that.
I do understand as you must know by now.
As to your assessment of CSPAN, it still is not as bad as PBS and is thousands of times better than the news programs. At least with CSPAN you can get more than one view.
I have a rule when democrats appear on it.
They lie.
When you see their lips move, they are lying.
And I am not claiming that all republicans offer just truth. I don't know if this guy on the video is a D or a R, but I do know he is accurate.
Another guy who really understands is Peter Wallison. Peter is often the dissenting view in the group of democrats.
Robert A Whit
11-14-2012, 03:50 PM
Yes, you are. That's the problem Robert, you don't attempt to discuss, you pontificate. Tell you what, when you have a PhD in sociology, political science, or history, I'll consider your tests. I may even consider your viewing suggestions or demands.
She accused me of holding myself up as superior and claiming I pontificate.
She needs to revisit my post number 1 where all I did was give some opening comment and say watch the video. I did no pontificating.
Then the rips against me started.
Led by FJ and followed up by Kathianne who wrote off the video because some guy called FJ stated he did not watch it.
Then the above is tossed at me.
Tell you this. If you have a 40 year long education with plenty of college courses passed and graded all A's, can I at least get some respect. Clearly you think that one book makes up for you not doing this work for 40 years. Trust me, I plan to check out what she says but if I acted as you act, I would tell you that I don't need her book since i already know.
Howver, I happen to be just that curious.
Kathianne
11-14-2012, 03:56 PM
She accused me of holding myself up as superior and claiming I pontificate.
She needs to revisit my post number 1 where all I did was give some opening comment and say watch the video. I did no pontificating.
Then the rips against me started.
Led by FJ and followed up by Kathianne who wrote off the video because some guy called FJ stated he did not watch it.
Then the above is tossed at me.
Tell you this. If you have a 40 year long education with plenty of college courses passed and graded all A's, can I at least get some respect. Clearly you think that one book makes up for you not doing this work for 40 years. Trust me, I plan to check out what she says but if I acted as you act, I would tell you that I don't need her book since i already know.
Howver, I happen to be just that curious.
Good for you, really. Are you retired? If so you just might have some time the rest of us don't. I spend hours reading and watching what truly interests me, like many here. I can't say that my interest in financials, whether economics or markets has ever been compelling. However, I read what I believe will help me understand the world I live in a bit better. It's often a chore, it's not where my interests lie, as stated.
I would no more tell you what to read regarding politics or history, then I take demands I read what interests you. I might mention something I found interesting, like Morgenson's but say read it or be ignorant? Nah.
aboutime
11-14-2012, 04:00 PM
She accused me of holding myself up as superior and claiming I pontificate.
She needs to revisit my post number 1 where all I did was give some opening comment and say watch the video. I did no pontificating.
Then the rips against me started.
Led by FJ and followed up by Kathianne who wrote off the video because some guy called FJ stated he did not watch it.
Then the above is tossed at me.
Tell you this. If you have a 40 year long education with plenty of college courses passed and graded all A's, can I at least get some respect. Clearly you think that one book makes up for you not doing this work for 40 years. Trust me, I plan to check out what she says but if I acted as you act, I would tell you that I don't need her book since i already know.
Howver, I happen to be just that curious.
Bob. You can't see it. Nor recognize what you are doing here. But your attitude stinks. Belittling others who are not in your profession, and expecting them to answer questions...ONLY YOU WOULD KNOW, isn't quite the proper method to use here where, all of us were, or are...ON THE SAME PAGE about what we see happening.
Presenting us with a TEST of your making. Is much like a Police officer telling us to WALK A STRAIGHT LINE...but we can't see the line, and we haven't been driving.
fj1200
11-14-2012, 04:55 PM
The dude though, I figured he would not understand it.
The dude who is not curious spoke of oversupply of capital promoted at the Fed Reserve. That happens to be true.
When Bush was president, I had noticed the sudden speed up of capital formation by the Feds and I think it was around 2007 or before that I sounded the alarm on a AOL forum that is closed forever.
This dude's thinking your either lazy to put into your own words or are unable to understand it in the first place. Please correct me. ;)
So what's it going to be, the dude doesn't understand it or got it right? :laugh: BTW, you were about 4-5 years late on your warning.
http://www.c-span.org/Events/Fmr-HUD-Economist-Fannie-amp-Freddie-To-Blame-for-Financial-Crisis/10737431085-1/
Kevin Villani, former chief economist at HUD and Freddie Mac, discusses a new Cato Institute paper "What Made the Financial Crisis Systemic?" in which he lays out the case that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are more responsible for the systemic financial collapse of 2008 than unregulated markets.
He argues that publicly-supported entities, like Fannie and Freddie, made it difficult for the market to correct itself, as it has done during prior market shake-ups, and that Dodd-Frank does not address the true causes of the collapse.
So what exactly was the new information that he provided?
Kathianne
11-14-2012, 05:04 PM
This dude's thinking your either lazy to put into your own words or are unable to understand it in the first place. Please correct me. ;)
So what's it going to be, the dude doesn't understand it or got it right? :laugh: BTW, you were about 4-5 years late on your warning.
So what exactly was the new information that he provided?
More thanks, Dude. ;)
Robert A Whit
11-14-2012, 05:05 PM
Good for you, really. Are you retired? If so you just might have some time the rest of us don't. I spend hours reading and watching what truly interests me, like many here. I can't say that my interest in financials, whether economics or markets has ever been compelling. However, I read what I believe will help me understand the world I live in a bit better. It's often a chore, it's not where my interests lie, as stated.
I would no more tell you what to read regarding politics or history, then I take demands I read what interests you. I might mention something I found interesting, like Morgenson's but say read it or be ignorant? Nah.
You will note that when you recommended that book, I did not attack you. I have not tried to force anybody into watching the video. Again, read my post number one before the attacks against me started. Some statements were not attacks. But the way I was lashed out were attacks.
I don't even say to you that I teach this as you did to me about the constitution. Remember when you did that to me?
I did not tell anybody they had to watch the video. Ignorant only means one does not know something. There is nothing at all that reflects on character merely because one does not know a thing. I am very deficient in knowledge in many many things. I admit it and it does not ruffle my feathers to mention I don't know a lot of things.
Kathianne
11-14-2012, 05:07 PM
You will note that when you recommended that book, I did not attack you. I have not tried to force anybody into watching the video. Again, read my post number one before the attacks against me started. Some statements were not attacks. But the way I was lashed out were attacks.
I don't even say to you that I teach this as you did to me about the constitution. Remember when you did that to me?
I did not tell anybody they had to watch the video. Ignorant only means one does not know something. There is nothing at all that reflects on character merely because one does not know a thing. I am very deficient in knowledge in many many things. I admit it and it does not ruffle my feathers to mention I don't know a lot of things.
Seriously, I like much of what you write, I do believe my thanks and rep points demonstrate that. However, you are failing to see why there's problems of your own making on two threads now.
Lord knows, I've often been too full of myself, I work on that.
Robert A Whit
11-14-2012, 05:08 PM
BOB. I do not take tests. UNLESS...you pay me, and it increases my annual earnings.
I can only offer to help people. If they want no help, I am not offended.
Some seem to take offense that I offered a video and told them they will learn what happened.
Notice I did not tell anybody what happened, I only offered them something from an expert.
As to the test, that is only for those who really want to get new information.
Robert A Whit
11-14-2012, 05:11 PM
Seriously, I like much of what you write, I do believe my thanks and rep points demonstrate that. However, you are failing to see why there's problems of your own making on two threads now.
Lord knows, I've often been too full of myself, I work on that.
Go back to my first post on this thread and explain to me in what way did I deserve the treatment I got from you?
Before you blame me, take a look at how you treated me.
Robert A Whit
11-14-2012, 05:13 PM
Seriously, I like much of what you write, I do believe my thanks and rep points demonstrate that.
Thanis Kath. I appreciate this and I too like much of what you write.
fj1200
11-14-2012, 05:16 PM
Tell you guys what. I will give you all a short test and I will see who will stand out and be correct on this then. Maybe some of you do understand it other than the stuff about what Bush did and what Dodd and Frank did. I Know all about what they did.
Note to all. I dunno about you guys but when I run into a genuine expert, I ask questions. I am that expert on this board said very humbly.
I am not trying to be a smart alec. I am not trying to hold myself up as superior. It is just my field and I have been in this field for over 40 years.
Dude, get over yourself. If you were the expert you would be able to sum up the economist's points in your own words. And for what it's worth whatever knowledge you have misses the point completely from my point of view. F & F were players in a world dominated by the Federal Reserve and their monetary policy; I'd be more than happy to talk about that or talk about what you believe to be new information but before most here will "invest" an hour of their lives you'd be best to give us a glimpse of the groundbreaking analysis presented.
I get tired of reading posts where so called well informed posters simply lack the knowledge to argue their points thus I knew of this actual expert report that actually cuts across the democrats grain and tells the honest truth. I understand that only the curious will watch the video because they want to learn. They have time.
Not all have all of that.
Oh brother, thankfully you don't hold yourself out to be superior. :rolleyes:
Robert A Whit
11-14-2012, 05:23 PM
Bob. You can't see it. Nor recognize what you are doing here. But your attitude stinks. Belittling others who are not in your profession, and expecting them to answer questions...ONLY YOU WOULD KNOW, isn't quite the proper method to use here where, all of us were, or are...ON THE SAME PAGE about what we see happening.
Presenting us with a TEST of your making. Is much like a Police officer telling us to WALK A STRAIGHT LINE...but we can't see the line, and we haven't been driving.
Why did you try to save your feelings by lashing out at me that way?
No I can't see it because I deny I am belittling any of you. Don't you like to find out if somebody knows something and they give you some background?
Say I started acting like an expert in the oil business. I would be dumb to do that. Even though in my long working life, I spent about 5 months supervising several crews of men working on a construction job in San Francisco and had to become an expert on the use of Bentonite. Bentonite is used by the oil industry. I had to learn all about it so i purchased a book using company funds that gave me one heck of an education on this and it was wtitten by Gulf Oil.
Even so, i don't hold myself out as an expert in oil business. We were not drilling for oil but we were creating a huge hole down to a depth of shy of 100 feet.
I hoped some posters who did not watch the video just might like finding out what they do know. I was offering the test as a help. It was not belittling anybody.
Some people appear to have a thin skin then they expect me to not notice those attacks made against me.
This calls for all of you to rush to post number 1 and discover that I did not deserve the cat calls. :cool:
Kathianne
11-14-2012, 05:25 PM
Dude, get over yourself. If you were the expert you would be able to sum up the economist's points in your own words. And for what it's worth whatever knowledge you have misses the point completely from my point of view. F & F were players in a world dominated by the Federal Reserve and their monetary policy; I'd be more than happy to talk about that or talk about what you believe to be new information but before most here will "invest" an hour of their lives you'd be best to give us a glimpse of the groundbreaking analysis presented.
Oh brother, thankfully you don't hold yourself out to be superior. :rolleyes:
Between some of what I hightlighted earlier and what you did here, I do hope Robert can perhaps see himself as others may. I don't want to chase him away, indeed I think he has knowledge to share and he nearly always has things to say of interests on many topics.
On this, like I've too often found myself, perhaps he knows 'too much' and finds others wanting, that's certainly how it came off to me. Having done the same myself, I can only hope he learns something from these couple of threads. Not the lesson he wanted, but sometimes those we weren't looking for are of value.
Kathianne
11-14-2012, 05:29 PM
Between some of what I hightlighted earlier and what you did here, I do hope Robert can perhaps see himself as others may. I don't want to chase him away, indeed I think he has knowledge to share and he nearly always has things to say of interests on many topics.
On this, like I've too often found myself, perhaps he knows 'too much' and finds others wanting, that's certainly how it came off to me. Having done the same myself, I can only hope he learns something from these couple of threads. Not the lesson he wanted, but sometimes those we weren't looking for are of value.
I'm going to add something about 'expertise.' What masters of a subject area find of interest, those with only a mild interest find boring. Oh I can get so excited over comparing an Obama to a Nixon with some of my political friends, it's really sort of sick how we can go for hours on the psycho-political. I've no problem sitting through 18 hours of PBS videos on Civil War or Hannibal. For me, it's entertainment. For normal people, crazy behavior.
Robert A Whit
11-14-2012, 05:38 PM
This dude's thinking your either lazy to put into your own words or are unable to understand it in the first place. Please correct me. ;)
Why would you want me to deliver a lecture by him that if you watch all of it, takes roughly an hour? Why take the chance I would misquote him. I urge you to read my first post and recall i did not make demands on anybody.
So what's it going to be, the dude doesn't understand it or got it right? :laugh: BTW, you were about 4-5 years late on your warning.
So what exactly was the new information that he provided?
It would have been clever of you to at least watch maybe 5 minutes of his opening comments and see if you were getting anything new. I believe he is correct.
So why?
First, I am very familiar with home loans from A to Z.
I also had studied a long report that came from the Chicago Fed Reserve on reasons for the housing crash.
I know of court cases and read the legal arguments, that greatly changed how home loans were handed out. Why minorities were singled out by the Feds and what the Feds goals were. This man explains how this caused a lot of problems.
But one more time. Had two posters either just made no comment or shrugged it off, this converation where I am blasted by some posters would not be happening.
If people won't watch the video, that is not my problem.
Robert A Whit
11-14-2012, 05:45 PM
I'm going to add something about 'expertise.' What masters of a subject area find of interest, those with only a mild interest find boring. Oh I can get so excited over comparing an Obama to a Nixon with some of my political friends, it's really sort of sick how we can go for hours on the psycho-political. I've no problem sitting through 18 hours of PBS videos on Civil War or Hannibal. For me, it's entertainment. For normal people, crazy behavior.
I agree. I have to mention that I have plenty of books on the ACW and though not on Hannibal, I know a fair amount about the use of elephants to cross the alps. I have film in my possession on the ACW as well. I am pretty well versed on Roman history and what Alexander the Great did.
I keep saying to revisit my first post. Then look at the following replies.
One would hve thought I tossed out a pile of garbage. The way i got roughed up for posting the link was .... well, not needed and sure did not help. This has damned near turned into a fight.
Don't know why. All I had intended was to offer an outstanding video. Rather than appreciate that fact, the topic suddenly became ME.
Damndest thing I ever saw happen. No need for it either.
Kathianne
11-14-2012, 05:48 PM
I agree. I have to mention that I have plenty of books on the ACW and though not on Hannibal, I know a fair amount about the use of elephants to cross the alps. I have film in my possession on the ACW as well. I am pretty well versed on Roman history and what Alexander the Great did.
I keep saying to revisit my first post. Then look at the following replies.
One would hve thought I tossed out a pile of garbage. The way i got roughed up for posting the link was .... well, not needed and sure did not help. This has damned near turned into a fight.
Don't know why. All I had intended was to offer an outstanding video. Rather than appreciate that fact, the topic suddenly became ME.
Damndest thing I ever saw happen. No need for it either.
I'm not being snarky, done with that. You really need to read your OP.
Robert A Whit
11-14-2012, 05:56 PM
Between some of what I hightlighted earlier and what you did here, I do hope Robert can perhaps see himself as others may. I don't want to chase him away, indeed I think he has knowledge to share and he nearly always has things to say of interests on many topics.
On this, like I've too often found myself, perhaps he knows 'too much' and finds others wanting, that's certainly how it came off to me. Having done the same myself, I can only hope he learns something from these couple of threads. Not the lesson he wanted, but sometimes those we weren't looking for are of value.
I would appreciate some of you ending making this about me.
How did I become the topic?
Again, step 1 is to revisit my first post then ask why I got slammed over that post?
I suspect that those who did not want to watch the video and have no interest in how the market collapsed and how the major player created the conditions that broke the back of the economy, simply skipped on by. I am interested in things like that and no doubt due to my profession.
Kathianne
11-14-2012, 06:35 PM
I would appreciate some of you ending making this about me.
How did I become the topic?
Again, step 1 is to revisit my first post then ask why I got slammed over that post?
I suspect that those who did not want to watch the video and have no interest in how the market collapsed and how the major player created the conditions that broke the back of the economy, simply skipped on by. I am interested in things like that and no doubt due to my profession.
Read post above this one.
aboutime
11-14-2012, 07:08 PM
I would appreciate some of you ending making this about me.
How did I become the topic?
Again, step 1 is to revisit my first post then ask why I got slammed over that post?
I suspect that those who did not want to watch the video and have no interest in how the market collapsed and how the major player created the conditions that broke the back of the economy, simply skipped on by. I am interested in things like that and no doubt due to my profession.
Bob. Please go back and re-read everything you presented to the rest of us prior to your invite about taking the test you created.
If anyone made this about YOU. It was YOU becoming the topic.
I know nothing about Real Estate, and I suspect Kathianne is not a professional Real Estate kind of person either.
If you want to talk about Naval Communications, or U.S. History, Politics, or Cancer, and Heart attacks. I have some expertise on those topics. But taking a test on a topic None of us Bragged about having any knowledge about. WAS YOUR IDEA.
fj1200
11-14-2012, 07:20 PM
Why would you want me to deliver a lecture by him that if you watch all of it, takes roughly an hour? Why take the chance I would misquote him. I urge you to read my first post and recall i did not make demands on anybody.
I don't want a lecture by you. I want to know at least one thing that is new to a topic that has been gone over in multiple threads involving multitudes of people here. One thing new.
... I believe he is correct.
So why?
First, I am very familiar...
I also had studied...
I know of court cases and read the legal arguments... Why minorities were singled out by the Feds and what the Feds goals were. This man explains how this caused a lot of problems.
You're familiar... you studied... you know of... explain nothing and your comment about minorities and the Fed clues everyone in that there is nothing new in the vast body of knowledge regarding the lead up to the crash.
But one more time. Had two posters either just made no comment or shrugged it off, this converation where I am blasted by some posters would not be happening.
If people won't watch the video, that is not my problem.
I don't particularly care what you are familiar with if you can't express your knowledge or simply sum up what you believe to be important information. My comment was specifically pointed to what seems to be just another study about F & F being manipulated by politicians and attempting to bring in new information that I believe to be a more accurate version of history. You seem to be pretty set on YOUR version while dismissing any viewpoints that others may have.
I keep saying to revisit my first post. Then look at the following replies.
One would hve thought I tossed out a pile of garbage. The way i got roughed up for posting the link was .... well, not needed and sure did not help. This has damned near turned into a fight.
No one is here to "rough you up," in fact it's your insistence of pointing back to your OP which keeps us going in circles.
Again, step 1 is to revisit my first post then ask why I got slammed over that post?
I suspect that those who did not want to watch the video and have no interest in how the market collapsed and how the major player created the conditions that broke the back of the economy, simply skipped on by. I am interested in things like that and no doubt due to my profession.
Because it was rather unimpressive and your defense of it makes me think that you are less than intellectually curious to other viewpoints.
fj1200
11-14-2012, 07:46 PM
The paper appears to be quite good.
What Made the Financial Crisis Systemic? (http://www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/what-made-financial-crisis-systemic)
The current narrative regarding the 2008 systemic financial system collapse is that numerous seemingly unrelated events occurred in unregulated or underregulated markets, requiring widespread bailouts of actors across the financial spectrum, from mortgage borrowers to investors in money market funds. The Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission, created by the U.S. Congress to investigate the causes of the crisis, promotes this politically convenient narrative, and the 2010 Dodd-Frank Act operationalizes it by completing the progressive extension of federal protection and regulation of banking and finance that began in the 1930s so that it now covers virtually all financial activities, including hedge funds and proprietary trading. The Dodd-Frank Act further charges the newly created Financial Stability Oversight Council, made up of politicians, bureaucrats, and university professors, with preventing a subsequent systemic crisis.
Markets can become unbalanced, but they generally correct themselves before crises become systemic. Because of the accumulation of past political reactions to previous crises, this did not occur with the most recent crisis. Public enterprises had crowded out private enterprises, and public protection and the associated prudential regulation had trumped market discipline. Prudential regulation created moral hazard and public protection invited mission regulation, both of which undermined prudential regulation itself. This eventually led to systemic failure. Politicians are responsible for both regulatory incompetence and mission-induced laxity.
I haven't seen a reference to the Fed in the current mess yet though.
Robert A Whit
11-14-2012, 07:58 PM
So the home business is a good place to understand expansionist Federal Reserve policies that led to an oversupply of liquidity that found its way into the housing market causing a bubble in home values only to be burst by mark-to-market rules? Home values were a symptom and not the cause IMO.
Since that is not how I stated this, maybe this got the ball rolling to misunderstandings.
It all depends on a number of factors if being in the housing business is a good place to understand. I already stated why I am qualified to speak to this topic. 40 years in every phase of this business. The video explains it best. I do not understand, given I posted the video link why I must explain what he said, but some of it that is important is why did the train get derailed. You speak of acts by the Feds and of course such acts would not limit itself to just the housing market ergo the driving off the cliff by the housing market is why the economy tanked.
Home values got very high due to supply of homes vs demand and prices were set by parties agreeing to purchase prices.
Seems that the book Reckless endangerment (based only on Amazon reviews) pins it on FNMA and Countrywide (and that is true but not complete) but from what I know does not speak of court cases that started the ball rolling to the point that the Feds and the FNMA were dealing with the magic figure of 70 percent which was to be the correct percent of home owners. As to the role of the Feds, by holding down interest rates, of course that is a factor. Yet with much lower rates today, we do not see a boom in housing nor a sign of impending "bubbles."
Kathianne
11-14-2012, 08:03 PM
Since that is not how I stated this, maybe this got the ball rolling to misunderstandings.
It all depends on a number of factors if being in the housing business is a good place to understand. I already stated why I am qualified to speak to this topic. 40 years in every phase of this business. The video explains it best. I do not understand, given I posted the video link why I must explain what he said, but some of it that is important is why did the train get derailed. You speak of acts by the Feds and of course such acts would not limit itself to just the housing market ergo the driving off the cliff by the housing market is why the economy tanked.
Home values got very high due to supply of homes vs demand and prices were set by parties agreeing to purchase prices.
Seems that the book Reckless endangerment (based only on Amazon reviews) pins it on FNMA and Countrywide (and that is true but not complete) but from what I know does not speak of court cayes that started the ball rolling to the point that the Feds and the FNMA were dealing with the magic figure of 70 percent which was to be the correct percent of home owners. As to the role of the Feds, by holding down interest rates, of course that is a factor. Yet with much lower rates today, we do not see a boom in housing nor a sign of impending "bubbles."
Can you sum that up to something understandable to those of with a degree in liberal arts?
aboutime
11-14-2012, 08:08 PM
Can you sum that up to something understandable to those of with a degree in liberal arts?
Kathianne. Knowing I have never been the Sharpest knife in the drawer when it comes to this kind of discussion. If we can call it that? I often wonder why those who claim to be so much more superior to others. Feel such a need to Brag, and Flaunt their expertise to others.
I can only compare such attitudes to those like Obama. Who claim to be so highly educated in many respects. But still have trouble TYING THEIR SHOES.
Robert A Whit
11-14-2012, 08:11 PM
Yep. The crisis was written about in detail in Reckless Endangerment, by Gretchen Morgenson. She explained how Bush tried and failed to stop what was going on. Pretty good for a NYT writer.
I have not read that book. However since you draw on that book, per Amazon reviews, she speaks of wall street and greed.
I want to go back to basics so you understand my point.
Call it a perfect storm.
Greed as spoken of in her book is pretty constant. But not as wide spread as to stall a market.
Why say this?
Because I was dealing with subprimes for many years. Before Bill Clinton. Before Reagan.
Wall St decided to create a wall street market. Much as one would think of a new offering to investors. So, we know men are greedy. Why didn't the market collapse many years sooner?
Since it thrived until FNMA decided it wanted to get in on the money gravy train, I find no reason to blame wall street.
FNMA, contrary to what most home owners believe is the grand master rule maker. We obey their rules. If their rules are not stuck to comma and period, they refuse to buy said loans. This damages the marketability of their loans. They are pretty strict.
They were backed into a corner per my video into trying to reach a housing goal of 70 percent. They managed to hit 69 percent. I don't know if the womans book speaks to the TX court case demanding minorities get loans that they as well as other lower earning people could not have before, all based on income and credit ranking, and further the court deciding to bump up "quotas" since that is the only way courts see if things improve, thus sowing the seeds for failure of the market. Naturally the market was not too happy but when FNMA got really involved in this, all hell broke loose. FNMA as I have often said was the huge factor but even with them the court played its role. Clinton had to react by shooting for minorities to get loans. When they saw the new deals, of course the minorities bought homes. And when you try that hard to create more loans, and the FNMA makes the rules, we saw what can happen.
I had hoped to let the video speak to this topic but since I am on the spot, I add this for clarity.
Robert A Whit
11-14-2012, 08:13 PM
Can you sum that up to something understandable to those of with a degree in liberal arts?
Perhaps NOW you understand why I posted the video hoping by watching it you would not need to ask me questions.
See my post just ahead of this post where I offer more detail. I hope it is understood.
Little-Acorn
11-14-2012, 08:13 PM
Now watch the video and set aside a bit more than 60 minutes.
Or you can read this post from 4 years ago.
http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?18610-New-Special-Report-on-quot-Saving-Our-Economy-quot
Robert A Whit
11-14-2012, 08:20 PM
Kathianne. Knowing I have never been the Sharpest knife in the drawer when it comes to this kind of discussion. If we can call it that? I often wonder why those who claim to be so much more superior to others. Feel such a need to Brag, and Flaunt their expertise to others.
I can only compare such attitudes to those like Obama. Who claim to be so highly educated in many respects. But still have trouble TYING THEIR SHOES.
I started reviewing all posts to try to isolate out what got trouble started.
My replies to the first perhaps dozen posts show I am calm and not at all annoyed. Suddenly somebody wanted to annoy me. I have no idea why they did.
Fiirst, I stipulated I am not superior nor tried to sound that way. Now by your words, I feel you are speaking of ME and this is why people get annoyed. Speakign of ME as you have means you want trouble.
I did not once brag. Post 1 only said I am in housing. I offered the video and stipulated of one watches the video, they will come away understanding how it all happened.
There has been zero flaunting on my part.
I notice that in many posts you reply to, it looks like you try to pick fights?
I had that problem with you before and even said you can call me Bob to show you are more friendly. Finally you did.
Why offer any creditentials?
I was challenged. Somebody tried to make it seem I said all it takes is some guy selling property and bingo the person is an expert. Few people today in this business have over 40 years where at all times I worked hard to be a "expert." I could try to allege I am not one, but why lie that way? Courts of law recognize me as an expert. It does not mean I am superior but why fight a court of law.
Kathianne
11-14-2012, 08:29 PM
Perhaps NOW you understand why I posted the video hoping by watching it you would not need to ask me questions.
See my post just ahead of this post where I offer more detail. I hope it is understood.
Not at all. You are saying that you are a 'master' in your field, yet cannot provide a synopsis of an hour long video to an educated audience. The problem is you, not the audience you wish.
tailfins
11-14-2012, 08:34 PM
can you sum that up to something understandable to those of with a degree in liberal arts?
debt bad
cash good
Kathianne
11-14-2012, 08:39 PM
debt bad
cash good
That's understandable. LOL! Too bad Robert couldn't come up with something. FJ and yourself did.
Robert A Whit
11-14-2012, 08:44 PM
Or you can read this post from 4 years ago.
http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?18610-New-Special-Report-on-quot-Saving-Our-Economy-quot
The report contained in that link is fine. Still are you saying you watched the video and got no new information?
I too have used that same report from Fox.
Robert A Whit
11-14-2012, 08:46 PM
That's understandable. LOL! Too bad Robert couldn't come up with something. FJ and yourself did.
Will you please end the dialogue making me the goat? It got old the first time you pulled this stunt.
I made it simple. Watch the video.
Somebody wanted to complicate it by making me the goat.
Robert A Whit
11-14-2012, 08:50 PM
Not at all. You are saying that you are a 'master' in your field, yet cannot provide a synopsis of an hour long video to an educated audience. The problem is you, not the audience you wish.
OK, clearly it is YOU that is the problem. Can you be so lazy as to rely on ME over the video?
Where is the rule stating I must tell the story for the Video?
Suppose you tell me what rule you are citing?
tailfins
11-14-2012, 09:01 PM
That's understandable. LOL! Too bad Robert couldn't come up with something. FJ and yourself did.
When you mentioned a Liberal Arts degree, I thought of Shannen Doherty
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5EvsDfNnhA
Kathianne
11-14-2012, 09:21 PM
OK, clearly it is YOU that is the problem. Can you be so lazy as to rely on ME over the video?
Where is the rule stating I must tell the story for the Video?
Suppose you tell me what rule you are citing?
Sorry you have a problem with understand current relevancy. No matter. OTOH, no laziness, just not buying what you failed to sell.
You may say, 'my loss.' Unlikely.
Little-Acorn
11-14-2012, 11:36 PM
The report contained in that link is fine.
I know.
Still are you saying you watched the video and got no new information?
No, I'm saying that you can read the post I linked to as an alternative source of info for the same question.
BTW, having prepared such a succinct source of info, I didn't consider it worth an additional hour to look at a video answering the same question. If you has written out some kind of summary I might have changed my mind.
fj1200
11-14-2012, 11:46 PM
Since that is not how I stated this, maybe this got the ball rolling to misunderstandings.
It all depends on a number of factors if being in the housing business is a good place to understand. I already stated why I am qualified to speak to this topic. 40 years in every phase of this business. The video explains it best. I do not understand, given I posted the video link why I must explain what he said, but some of it that is important is why did the train get derailed. You speak of acts by the Feds and of course such acts would not limit itself to just the housing market ergo the driving off the cliff by the housing market is why the economy tanked.
Home values got very high due to supply of homes vs demand and prices were set by parties agreeing to purchase prices.
Seems that the book Reckless endangerment (based only on Amazon reviews) pins it on FNMA and Countrywide (and that is true but not complete) but from what I know does not speak of court cases that started the ball rolling to the point that the Feds and the FNMA were dealing with the magic figure of 70 percent which was to be the correct percent of home owners. As to the role of the Feds, by holding down interest rates, of course that is a factor. Yet with much lower rates today, we do not see a boom in housing nor a sign of impending "bubbles."
Well for one I rarely watch the videos posted here, or anywhere for that matter, even if it's a minute so an hour plus? Highly unlikely; revelarts cured me of that when I watched the Yellow Brick Road as allegory for the Federal Reserve... thanks rev. :mad: :laugh:
Second, I spoke of acts by the Federal Reserve which is not the "Feds" as you have used it. The Federal Reserve controls monetary policy in this country and has been highly expansionist for about 10 years. Look at a gold chart, look at almost any commodity chart, compare fed funds to the Taylor rule and any of those will show you that the Fed has been loose in their job. As Niall Ferguson would tell you, bubbles are created by loose money.
Third, changes to the mark-to-market rules peg the top (instituted 2007) and bottom (relaxed 2009) of the market within a matter of a couple of weeks. It is the values that the market assigned to banking reserves that was slowly disintegrating which ultimately caused the collapse in conjunction with some just awful government responses to Lehman and Bear that completely confused the issue and sent the wrong signals to the players on WS.
Fourth, it seems we've already touched on this in another of your threads:
http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?37385-Keynes-lit-up
It seems your bound and determined for F&F to be the cause and are intellectually curious enough to find further support for your POV.
Robert A Whit
11-15-2012, 10:32 AM
I know.
No, I'm saying that you can read the post I linked to as an alternative source of info for the same question.
BTW, having prepared such a succinct source of info, I didn't consider it worth an additional hour to look at a video answering the same question. If you has written out some kind of summary I might have changed my mind.
I can tell you that if you watch that video and tell me you can post a very brief synopsis that will encourage others to watch it, I plan to vote you for informer of the year. While I did look at all other links presented to me, I did not demand they post a snyopsis just to tweak my curiousity. The woman was of on some other tangent yet I endured all of her one hour video. I was not offered a synopsis.
It would take me a full page of text to try to post something as you want. That video is very complex.
tailfins
11-15-2012, 10:46 AM
I can tell you that if you watch that video and tell me you can post a very brief synopsis that will encourage others to watch it, I plan to vote you for informer of the year. While I did look at all other links presented to me, I did not demand they post a snyopsis just to tweak my curiousity. The woman was of on some other tangent yet I endured all of her one hour video. I was not offered a synopsis.
It would take me a full page of text to try to post something as you want. That video is very complex.
Dick Morris cured me on long videos. One of his sponsors he "highly recommends" is Stansberry Research. So I watch the video where they string you along on this "secret plan" to get free silver from the bank. They never tell you and want you to subscribe to find out. I guessed that someone had probably tried it and reported the results online. Indeed they had. The "secret" is that Kennedy halves are not circulated anymore and you should buy every Kennedy half available at different banks with the chance that pre-1970 coins will show up. What a joke!
fj1200
11-15-2012, 11:50 AM
I can tell you that if you watch that video and tell me you can post a very brief synopsis that will encourage others to watch it, I plan to vote you for informer of the year.
"Government bad."
I am pleased to accept this award...
Robert A Whit
11-15-2012, 11:59 AM
Well for one I rarely watch the videos posted here, or anywhere for that matter, even if it's a minute so an hour plus? Highly unlikely; revelarts cured me of that when I watched the Yellow Brick Road as allegory for the Federal Reserve... thanks rev. :mad: :laugh:
Second, I spoke of acts by the Federal Reserve which is not the "Feds" as you have used it. The Federal Reserve controls monetary policy in this country and has been highly expansionist for about 10 years. Look at a gold chart, look at almost any commodity chart, compare fed funds to the Taylor rule and any of those will show you that the Fed has been loose in their job. As Niall Ferguson would tell you, bubbles are created by loose money.
Third, changes to the mark-to-market rules peg the top (instituted 2007) and bottom (relaxed 2009) of the market within a matter of a couple of weeks. It is the values that the market assigned to banking reserves that was slowly disintegrating which ultimately caused the collapse in conjunction with some just awful government responses to Lehman and Bear that completely confused the issue and sent the wrong signals to the players on WS.
Fourth, it seems we've already touched on this in another of your threads:
http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?37385-Keynes-lit-up
It seems your bound and determined for F&F to be the cause and are intellectually curious enough to find further support for your POV.
As my video proved, but for the rules by FNMA and Freddie, this could NEVER have taken place.
I know very well that monitory expansion has long gone on. I was speaking of when Greenspan was the head of the Fed Reserve (When I say Feds, I include anything that makes policy on behalf of the Federal Governent and Greenspan really kicked it in gear. While you are correct, that misses the point. FNMA was not the Feds yet it seems I am one of the rare posters that knows how they work well enough to blame them. Those who are not familiar with FNMA won't see how it took place so they will seek other explanations.
Robert A Whit
11-15-2012, 12:02 PM
"Government bad."
I am pleased to accept this award...
You must mean that the TX court case got this kicked off and of course that is correct. FNMA was not Government but they make the rules.
Who do you blame if not the rule makers? FNMA kicked the subprimes into hyperdrive. So long as we made subprime loans backed only by Wall St, things were well in hand.
fj1200
11-15-2012, 12:17 PM
As my video proved, but for the rules by FNMA and Freddie, this could NEVER have taken place.
I know very well that monitory expansion has long gone on. I was speaking of when Greenspan was the head of the Fed Reserve (When I say Feds, I include anything that makes policy on behalf of the Federal Governent and Greenspan really kicked it in gear. While you are correct, that misses the point. FNMA was not the Feds yet it seems I am one of the rare posters that knows how they work well enough to blame them. Those who are not familiar with FNMA won't see how it took place so they will seek other explanations.
:laugh: Yeah, you're rare. Nevertheless I disagree, bubbles have been happening for centuries prior to the creation of F&F unless you think they were financing Dutch tulips. The Fed doesn't make policy on behalf of the Federal Government but there involvement is huge and there role has expanded beyond what it should solely be, monetary stability, and has led to an increase in the moral hazard; every crash is met with Fed action to stem the downside risks.
And just because we don't solely buy into your explanation doesn't mean people don't understand how F&F works.
You must mean that the TX court case got this kicked off and of course that is correct. FNMA was not Government but they make the rules.
Who do you blame if not the rule makers? FNMA kicked the subprimes into hyperdrive. So long as we made subprime loans backed only by Wall St, things were well in hand.
I don't discount F&F's role but they fed into the monster. Bubbles are not a problem until they get popped.
I missed this comment earlier:
As to the role of the Feds, by holding down interest rates, of course that is a factor. Yet with much lower rates today, we do not see a boom in housing nor a sign of impending "bubbles."
Why would you think that the bubble would just pop up in housing again? As far as any bubbles that may be out there, keep an eye on commodity prices, bond prices, and possibly even housing prices if they've not been allowed to correct by the government interference the video mentions.
fj1200
11-15-2012, 12:18 PM
You must mean that the TX court case got this kicked off...
It would also help if you would link to relevant information. ;)
Robert A Whit
11-15-2012, 12:21 PM
Dick Morris cured me on long videos. One of his sponsors he "highly recommends" is Stansberry Research. So I watch the video where they string you along on this "secret plan" to get free silver from the bank. They never tell you and want you to subscribe to find out. I guessed that someone had probably tried it and reported the results online. Indeed they had. The "secret" is that Kennedy halves are not circulated anymore and you should buy every Kennedy half available at different banks with the chance that pre-1970 coins will show up. What a joke!
Have you seen that ever happen on CSPAN? My video came from them.
Robert A Whit
11-15-2012, 12:28 PM
:laugh: Yeah, you're rare. Nevertheless I disagree, bubbles have been happening for centuries prior to the creation of F&F unless you think they were financing Dutch tulips. The Fed doesn't make policy on behalf of the Federal Government but there involvement is huge and there role has expanded beyond what it should solely be, monetary stability, and has led to an increase in the moral hazard; every crash is met with Fed action to stem the downside risks.
And just because we don't solely buy into your explanation doesn't mean people don't understand how F&F works.
I don't discount F&F's role but they fed into the monster. Bubbles are not a problem until they get popped.
I missed this comment earlier:
Why would you think that the bubble would just pop up in housing again? As far as any bubbles that may be out there, keep an eye on commodity prices, bond prices, and possibly even housing prices if they've not been allowed to correct by the government interference the video mentions.
You are not in the business nor understand the way FNMA worked at the time or you would get it.
Maybe I am done here.
Seems I am not talking to the choir, I am talking to the malcontents.
I was not actually discussing any bubble, but6 I was discussing the rule makers.
There is the proverb that goes something like this.
Those with the gold make the rules.
FNMAE had the gold.
I know their rules.
I lived under them for many years.
I lived with their rules as an appraiser.
I lived with their rules in home sales.
I li9ved with those rules doing home loans.
But since you have not done any of those things, why don't you just educate me.
This will no doubt be entertaining.
This topic is funny to me. So many so called experts with no time in my business want to explain all of this to me.
Too damned funny.
I tried.
I offered some data and nobody wanted to review it.
Robert A Whit
11-15-2012, 12:30 PM
It would also help if you would link to relevant information. ;)
Why?
You prived to me that when I offer links, you refuse to learn from them.
fj1200
11-15-2012, 05:11 PM
You are not in the business nor understand the way FNMA worked at the time or you would get it.
Maybe I am done here.
...
I tried.
I offered some data and nobody wanted to review it.
Oh brother, you have not been paying attention.
Why?
You prived to me that when I offer links, you refuse to learn from them.
I presume it wouldn't be an hour video and might actually be useful in making your point. BTW, I watched a good portion of the video and as we wondered before, it really didn't point out anything new and groundbreaking.
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