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mundame
01-23-2013, 04:09 PM
As for Sherman's March , much like Truman's disgust at having to use atom bombs it was a decision that Lincoln felt great remorse at having to make .

By that time it was obvious that the South would never come to the negotiating table without a completely military surrender, and so sure when one surrenders unconditionally one gets no say in the surrender and so slavery was finished.

Prior to late 1862 early 1863 the Civil War was thought of as sort of a novelty that would last a little while and be done. Certainly many in the South believed that the North would realize there error and capitulate to the question of slavery. At that point if the South could have gotten the upper hand and got Lincoln to the negotiating table, I believe they would have gotten exactly that.

Instead the war turned ugly and yes then opinions changed. By 1864 the hatred had set in and most southerners didn't want back in the union with or without slavery, so yes then TOTAL defeat in order to reunite the Union was the only option.


I've never thought of Sherman's March Through Georgia, burning and destroying everything, in quite this way. I realize that Southerners (I am one) are indignant, based on a modern sense of commonality: we are all one country and he shouldn't have done that.

But that's not how it was at the time. At the time it fell under the rule that if you do not TOTALLY defeat a country at war, then you just have to do it all over again soon. The worst example in modern times was the Armistice in WWI, when German troops climbed out of their trenches on French soil and marched home in good order, totally undefeated. After which followed one very angry Germany with revolution against the Weimar government, Frei Corps rebels molesting Jews and Communists freely on the streets, Hitler organizing at one time fully 8000 troops in Bavaria and proposing to march on Berlin, the furious German refusal of ANY of the treaty terms, such as the French demand for reparations in at least coal, so that no German miner worked and they deliberately let their currency become worthless so they couldn't pay France. Then Hitler rose -- it was 19 years of fury ending in the worse war ever, because Germany had not been truly defeated the first time.

Eisenhower and Churchill and Stalin did not make that mistake a second time.

The second worse example of how not to end a war in modern times was the Armistice between North and South Korea, and there it still is, and there our troops still are, and there is North Korea still fomenting and fuming after all these decades, still dangerous because they were never properly defeated.

Kathianne
01-23-2013, 04:13 PM
I've never thought of Sherman's March Through Georgia, burning and destroying everything, in quite this way. I realize that Southerners (I am one) are indignant, based on a modern sense of commonality: we are all one country and he shouldn't have done that.

But that's not how it was at the time. At the time it fell under the rule that if you do not TOTALLY defeat a country at war, then you just have to do it all over again soon. The worst example in modern times was the Armistice in WWI, when German troops climbed out of their trenches on French soil and marched home in good order, totally undefeated. After which followed one very angry Germany with revolution against the Weimar government, Frei Corps rebels molesting Jews and Communists freely on the streets, Hitler organizing at one time fully 8000 troops in Bavaria and proposing to march on Berlin, the furious German refusal of ANY of the treaty terms, such as the French demand for reparations in at least coal, so that no German miner worked and they deliberately let their currency become worthless so they couldn't pay France. Then Hitler rose -- it was 19 years of fury ending in the worse war ever, because Germany had not been truly defeated the first time.

Eisenhower and Churchill and Stalin did not make that mistake a second time.

The second worse example of how not to end a war in modern times was the Armistice between North and South Korea, and there it still is, and there our troops still are, and there is North Korea still fomenting and fuming after all these decades, still dangerous because they were never properly defeated.

and with that, we find common ground. Unconditional surrender is how to end a war. Then generosity towards the suffering people afterwards. (Lincoln's plan on Reconstruction-which fell apart under Johnson and Radical Republicans; Marshall Plan following WWII).

mundame
01-23-2013, 04:13 PM
The current American nation is fairly safe from Indian attacks, slave uprisings and attacks by foreign powers. As a past president once said, the only thing we have to fear is fear itself. Our primary enemy is ourselves.


Can't agree. Indian attacks, okay, they are probably pretty well squelched. The huge and terrible black riots of the 60s and 70s and later and the continuing fear of them now, as when people worried Occupy would successfully start all that up again, that is an ever-present danger.

As for attack by foreign powers, there was something happened 9/11/2001. And we have been under continual cyberattack ever since.

There is no "ourselves" anymore to be an enemy. This country is no longer united enough to have one identity.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
02-01-2013, 11:34 AM
I've never thought of Sherman's March Through Georgia, burning and destroying everything, in quite this way. I realize that Southerners (I am one) are indignant, based on a modern sense of commonality: we are all one country and he shouldn't have done that.

But that's not how it was at the time. At the time it fell under the rule that if you do not TOTALLY defeat a country at war, then you just have to do it all over again soon. The worst example in modern times was the Armistice in WWI, when German troops climbed out of their trenches on French soil and marched home in good order, totally undefeated. After which followed one very angry Germany with revolution against the Weimar government, Frei Corps rebels molesting Jews and Communists freely on the streets, Hitler organizing at one time fully 8000 troops in Bavaria and proposing to march on Berlin, the furious German refusal of ANY of the treaty terms, such as the French demand for reparations in at least coal, so that no German miner worked and they deliberately let their currency become worthless so they couldn't pay France. Then Hitler rose -- it was 19 years of fury ending in the worse war ever, because Germany had not been truly defeated the first time.

Eisenhower and Churchill and Stalin did not make that mistake a second time.

The second worse example of how not to end a war in modern times was the Armistice between North and South Korea, and there it still is, and there our troops still are, and there is North Korea still fomenting and fuming after all these decades, still dangerous because they were never properly defeated.


Bull, he waged war directly upon the civilians, causing many to starve. He will end up in hell and should I have the great misfortune to arrive there as well, I am going to stomp his ass!! That's how a true Southerners sees this.

Eisenhower, Churchill and Stalin were not waging war upon their fellow countrymen , with the intent to reunite them!. Your premise misses the mark IMHO.-TYR