U.S. needs to STAY OUT of any Israel vs. Hamas conflict

[gabosaurus]

The U.S. needs to avoid any participation, either militarily or economically, in an Israel-Hamas conflict. If these two terrorist groups want to blow each other out of the water, let them.
An Israeli invasion of any territory beyond its borders should invoke international sanctions.

[Thunderknuckles]

If these two terrorist groups want to blow each other out of the water, let them.
That's the best sense you've made in a while Gabby. Let them fight. Israel will dominate. Just one question for you though...once Israel reclaims large chunks of land, do they get to keep it or do they have to give it back again?

[logroller]

That's the best sense you've made in a while Gabby. Let them fight. Israel will dominate. Just one question for you though...once Israel reclaims large chunks of land, do they get to keep it or do they have to give it back again?
Are you referring to Gaza, Jeruselum or Israel proper?

[CSM]

I just have to ask: What does Israel do about those incoming rockets? I suppose that they could just bomb the hell out of the Gaza strip and level each and every building without actually invading any territory outside its borders. That might even be preferable to putting boots on the ground and placing Israelli soldiers in harms way. Hmmmm, I like the way you think Gabby.

[Voted4Reagan]

That's the best sense you've made in a while Gabby. Let them fight. Israel will dominate. Just one question for you though...once Israel reclaims large chunks of land, do they get to keep it or do they have to give it back again?

Excellent question.... I look to the RULES OF RIDDICK for the answer....

You keep what you kill.....

[mundame]

I just have to ask: What does Israel do about those incoming rockets? I suppose that they could just bomb the hell out of the Gaza strip and level each and every building without actually invading any territory outside its borders. That might even be preferable to putting boots on the ground and placing Israelli soldiers in harms way. Hmmmm, I like the way you think Gabby.


Works for me.

I think all the Pals should be run out into Syria, the ones left after bombing, if any, and Israel's borders made sane for a change: That big West Bank bite out of it recovered and the Gaza Strip recovered.

If the Palestinians were once gotten rid of completely, that would be the end of problems, since all other aggression would be state aggression and Israel could respond with simple war, which they always win.


It's the only way, really. Otherwise all this just continues for indefinite decades or centuries. Pretty silly, IMO.

[taft2012]

It appears that once again Gabby has farted in the elevator and gotten off on the next floor.

:fart:

[CSM]

Works for me.

I think all the Pals should be run out into Syria, the ones left after bombing, if any, and Israel's borders made sane for a change: That big West Bank bite out of it recovered and the Gaza Strip recovered.

If the Palestinians were once gotten rid of completely, that would be the end of problems, since all other aggression would be state aggression and Israel could respond with simple war, which they always win.


It's the only way, really. Otherwise all this just continues for indefinite decades or centuries. Pretty silly, IMO.


I do not believe that genocide is ever a viable or reasonable solution to any problem. make no mistake, the conflict in the Middle East is a proxy war fought by soveriegn states. I doubt that Omar the Rug Maker has converted his living room into a missile/launcher manufacturing faciltiy. Those munitions in that quantity are coming from a soveriegn state. The Palestinians and HAMAS in particular are just the cannon fodder being used (in this particular case) to achieve some national objective. We could speculate as to which nation state is providing those munitions but that is a whole different thread.

[mundame]

I do not believe that genocide is ever a viable or reasonable solution to any problem.

No, I agree: I don't want Palestinians genocided, I want them all, 100%, run into Syria.

Syria definitely deserves them.




make no mistake, the conflict in the Middle East is a proxy war fought by soveriegn states. I doubt that Omar the Rug Maker has converted his living room into a missile/launcher manufacturing faciltiy. Those munitions in that quantity are coming from a soveriegn state. The Palestinians and HAMAS in particular are just the cannon fodder being used (in this particular case) to achieve some national objective. We could speculate as to which nation state is providing those munitions but that is a whole different thread.

I don't know -- you could be right, but there are real existential issues here for Israel, so I can't see it as wholly a proxy war between Iran and the USA. I agree that its the Palis that are more notably the proxies, but surely there isn't much doubt about Iran being their principal, since they've started flying Iranian-made rockets into Tel Aviv now.

It may be that two out of the three Iranian proxies are about to be creamed -- HAMAS as well as Syria going down in the civil war.

[CSM]

No, I agree: I don't want Palestinians genocided, I want them all, 100%, run into Syria.

Syria definitely deserves them.





I don't know -- you could be right, but there are real existential issues here for Israel, so I can't see it as wholly a proxy war between Iran and the USA. I agree that its the Palis that are more notably the proxies, but surely there isn't much doubt about Iran being their principal, since they've started flying Iranian-made rockets into Tel Aviv now.

It may be that two out of the three Iranian proxies are about to be creamed -- HAMAS as well as Syria going down in the civil war.

I am not so sure that the US is the ONLY Western power in this proxy war. I am not even certain that it is ONLY Western nations involved. I am also not so sure that it is just Iran on the other side either. I have some theories (rather complex ones at that) about how and why but without concrete evidence, they hold no more water than any other conspiracy theory. In my opinion, what many folks don't seem to understand is that this is not JUST about Israel and the Palestinians, that is simply the strawman rally point.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

The U.S. needs to avoid any participation, either militarily or economically, in an Israel-Hamas conflict. If these two terrorist groups want to blow each other out of the water, let them.
An Israeli invasion of any territory beyond its borders should invoke international sanctions.


Way to go gabby. You say no boots on the ground and that leaves exactly what to counter the incoming rockets? Why nothing but return fire! And then when ignorant innocent bystanders are killed the terrorists get to use pics of that for propaganda purposes.
Congrats, you side with terrorists and think like them too!!!-Tyr

[tailfins]

The U.S. needs to avoid any participation, either militarily or economically, in an Israel-Hamas conflict. If these two terrorist groups want to blow each other out of the water, let them.
An Israeli invasion of any territory beyond its borders should invoke international sanctions.

I don't think your idol in the White House will listen to you. I wonder how much assistance he will give to Hamas.

[mundame]

I am not so sure that the US is the ONLY Western power in this proxy war. I am not even certain that it is ONLY Western nations involved. I am also not so sure that it is just Iran on the other side either. I have some theories (rather complex ones at that) about how and why but without concrete evidence, they hold no more water than any other conspiracy theory. In my opinion, what many folks don't seem to understand is that this is not JUST about Israel and the Palestinians, that is simply the strawman rally point.

??? Not clear? It looks like it's "just" about Israel --- against all the other Muslim Mideast countries, of course. I agree it's not just the Pals and Iran that are Israel's enemies.

[CSM]

??? Not clear? It looks like it's "just" about Israel --- against all the other Muslim Mideast countries, of course. I agree it's not just the Pals and Iran that are Israel's enemies.

I think you misunderstood. Israel is in many ways a proxy of the West (and I suspect, others) and they are indeed aligned against the rest of the Middle East. What I meant was that there are other reasons (I suspect) that some nations want Israel out of the picture besides "we hate the JOOOOOS!". I believe that some countries that most would not even suspect have interests in the Middle East for a variety of reasons. Those countries include China, Russia, and North Korea. Again, complex theories but no proof.

[mundame]

I think you misunderstood. Israel is in many ways a proxy of the West (and I suspect, others) and they are indeed aligned against the rest of the Middle East. What I meant was that there are other reasons (I suspect) that some nations want Israel out of the picture besides "we hate the JOOOOOS!". I believe that some countries that most would not even suspect have interests in the Middle East for a variety of reasons. Those countries include China, Russia, and North Korea. Again, complex theories but no proof.


Too complex to explain, I see. Okay.

I only have one conspiracy theory, a simple one that Mormons want a president so they can reinstitute polygamy and take over the world.

I can't get my mind around the really complex ones involving Templars and Illuminati. :rolleyes:

[CSM]

Too complex to explain, I see. Okay.

I only have one conspiracy theory, a simple one that Mormons want a president so they can reinstitute polygamy and take over the world.

I can't get my mind around the really complex ones involving Templars and Illuminati. :rolleyes:

LOL! Well not too complex to explain really; too complex to explain in a few paragraphs on a message board. Now the Templars and Illuminati might just be the counterbalance to the Great Calliphate! Hmmm.... I'll have to mull that one over a bit!

[Gaffer]

The invasion should start this weekend. The US will have no reason to get involved unless other arab countries get involved. There's nothing proxy about Israel. They are a sovereign country defending themselves from barbarians. Hamas \, on the other hand, is an arm of the muslim brotherhood, the original organization that formed hamas. The taliban, al qaeda and many others I can't pronounce or spell are also part of the brotherhood, a terrorist organization that has been legitimized by the current administration. Even the PLO, which is just hamas lite, is part of the MB.

Years ago the MB declared it was okay for sunni's and shite's to work together as long as it was a mutual goal to destroy Israel. So iran has been supplying hamas with rockets as part of that agreement.

Israel will invade gaza, again. Hamas will fight them, the hamas leaders will surround themselves with children and the women will place themselves in positions to get killed as martyrs. All this will be used as propaganda to draw egypt into the fray and the world will condemn Israel, again.

If they can't get enough pictures of dead children in gaza they will get them form syria and claim they are palis.

[CSM]

The invasion should start this weekend. The US will have no reason to get involved unless other arab countries get involved. There's nothing proxy about Israel. They are a sovereign country defending themselves from barbarians. Hamas \, on the other hand, is an arm of the muslim brotherhood, the original organization that formed hamas. The taliban, al qaeda and many others I can't pronounce or spell are also part of the brotherhood, a terrorist organization that has been legitimized by the current administration. Even the PLO, which is just hamas lite, is part of the MB.

Years ago the MB declared it was okay for sunni's and shite's to work together as long as it was a mutual goal to destroy Israel. So iran has been supplying hamas with rockets as part of that agreement.

Israel will invade gaza, again. Hamas will fight them, the hamas leaders will surround themselves with children and the women will place themselves in positions to get killed as martyrs. All this will be used as propaganda to draw egypt into the fray and the world will condemn Israel, again.

If they can't get enough pictures of dead children in gaza they will get them form syria and claim they are palis.

Yeah, that is pretty much how I see it playing out as well. I am sure there will be some variations but in general, Israel will do what it must to stop the rocket attacks to include reclaiming Gaza and in the end, yield to international pressure and return the captured territory to whomever.

[mundame]

The invasion should start this weekend. The US will have no reason to get involved unless other arab countries get involved. There's nothing proxy about Israel. They are a sovereign country defending themselves from barbarians.


I agree with you. Savages that ride donkeys.

I would hope Israel has some techniques in play to counter the disgusting pretence-photos these liars put out.

Nobody would bother them if they didn't constantly shoot rockets into Israel. I fail to see why that's okay with leftists: if it happened here in Maryland, we would be quite annoyed, I think. I sure would. Are people just supposed to put up with ethnic violence ---- because it's PC?

Probably.

[CSM]

I agree with you. Savages that ride donkeys.

I would hope Israel has some techniques in play to counter the disgusting pretence-photos these liars put out.

Nobody would bother them if they didn't constantly shoot rockets into Israel. I fail to see why that's okay with leftists: if it happened here in Maryland, we would be quite annoyed, I think. I sure would. Are people just supposed to put up with ethnic violence ---- because it's PC?

Probably.

Since Maryland is full of liberals, some conservatives might think it's a good idea to lob a few rockets into that den of iniquity. Them thar far right, bible thumping, gun loving conservatives just might do it someday.

[mundame]

Since Maryland is full of liberals, some conservatives might think it's a good idea to lob a few rockets into that den of iniquity. Them thar far right, bible thumping, gun loving conservatives just might do it someday.

Well, be careful how you target them rockets: Unless you hit Baltimore City or Prince Georges County outside Washington you are going to wipe out pretty much 100% conservatives. That's the thing about Maryland. Everybody who lives in the country is conservative, but the city is full of --- Obama folks.

This has not made for a happy electorate. It's divided between those who take drugs and do crimes and ruin neighborhoods and shoot each other dead in the streets, versus those who pay to support those types and their government. Maryland is pretty much entirely takers versus makers.

[CSM]

Well, be careful how you target them rockets: Unless you hit Baltimore City or Prince Georges County outside Washington you are going to wipe out pretty much 100% conservatives. That's the thing about Maryland. Everybody who lives in the country is conservative, but the city is full of --- Obama folks.

This has not made for a happy electorate. It's divided between those who take drugs and do crimes and ruin neighborhoods and shoot each other dead in the streets, versus those who pay to support those types and their government. Maryland is pretty much entirely takers versus makers.

Understood. Nobody in their right mind targets farmland with their rockets, donchya know. By the way, I personally do not own any rockets nor do I know anyone who does.

[jimnyc]

No need for the USA to get involved militarily as Israel will annihilate Hamas. Hopefully Iran will do something to defend Palestine and give Israel an excuse to send in jets and destroy their nuclear program. Maybe Egypt will be dumb enough to get involved as well, which I doubt, and then Israel could take care of them as well and save us from giving the Brotherhood $2 billion every year, which they'll likely funnel to terrorist organizations. But should any other 'major' countries get involved, they themselves are risking the US or other countries helping Israel. If Hamas wants to rocket Israel, and Israel in turn wants to run sorties over Palestine and take out Hamas, so be it. The entire world knows who will win. Eventually they will push and push and push and push - and Israel will grow and grow and grow. And then people will cry and say the US should have done something.

[gabosaurus]

I really don't care what happens between Israel and its adversaries. They can occupy all the territory they take and fire rockets at each other at will.
I just want the U.S. to stay out of it.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I really don't care what happens between Israel and its adversaries. They can occupy all the territory they take and fire rockets at each other at will.
I just want the U.S. to stay out of it.

With the little knowledge that you have and the liberal ideology you embrace you'd be better served to talk only to your blinded liberal friends and do the head nodding polka. Of course you will not do that because in your mind you are brilliant.. if only it were so, if only.. we'd be spared your wrongpath ravings..-Tyr

[Kathianne]

The invasion should start this weekend. The US will have no reason to get involved unless other arab countries get involved. There's nothing proxy about Israel. They are a sovereign country defending themselves from barbarians. Hamas \, on the other hand, is an arm of the muslim brotherhood, the original organization that formed hamas. The taliban, al qaeda and many others I can't pronounce or spell are also part of the brotherhood, a terrorist organization that has been legitimized by the current administration. Even the PLO, which is just hamas lite, is part of the MB.

Years ago the MB declared it was okay for sunni's and shite's to work together as long as it was a mutual goal to destroy Israel. So iran has been supplying hamas with rockets as part of that agreement.

Israel will invade gaza, again. Hamas will fight them, the hamas leaders will surround themselves with children and the women will place themselves in positions to get killed as martyrs. All this will be used as propaganda to draw egypt into the fray and the world will condemn Israel, again.

If they can't get enough pictures of dead children in gaza they will get them form syria and claim they are palis.

You may have called this, just 11 minutes old:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/as-hamas-rockets-fly-israel-moves-toward-ground-invasion-of-gaza-strip/2012/11/17/a90a66d4-307f-11e2-a30e-5ca76eeec857_story.html


Israel pounds Gaza from air as troops assemble, Arab League meets http://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_606w/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2012/11/16/Foreign/Images/2012-11-16T125215Z_01_JER16_RTRIDSP_3_PALESTINIANS-ISRAEL-RESERVISTS-5554.jpg (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/hamas-leader-in-gaza-killed-by-israeli-strike/2012/11/14/74add776-2e7d-11e2-89d4-040c9330702a_gallery.html)

By Karin Brulliard (http://www.washingtonpost.com/karin-brulliard/2011/03/02/ABLuvmP_page.html), <!-- For AP News Registry --> <abbr class="updated" title="2012-11-17T18:05:00-0400">Nov 17, 2012 06:05 PM EST</abbr>
The Washington Post <!-- /For AP News Registry --> Updated: Saturday, November 17, 12:05 PM
<!-- /byline --> <article> JERUSALEM — Israel accelerated its air offensive in the Gaza Strip overnight into early Saturday and destroyed the offices of Hamas Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh, in what appeared to be an intensifying focus on targeting sites connected to — and leaders of — the militant Islamist movement that rules the coastal territory.


The strikes slowed during the day, as Gaza militants continued to lob rockets across the border into southern Israel. Just before sundown, Hamas said it had shot an Iranian-made Fajr-5 rocket at Tel Aviv, and air raid sirens sounded in the city for the third day in a row. The Israeli military said its newly deployed missile defense battery intercepted the rocket before it landed in the populous coastal city.

</article>

On Saturday night, the Cairo-based Arab League held an emergency meeting of Arab foreign ministers to discuss an Arab response to the situation. Many of the participants called for Arab assistance to the Palestinians and a “reconsideration” of Egypt’s peace treaty with Israel. The league’s chief, Nabil Elaraby, urged Arab states to adopt a “strict stance” on the conflict, although it was unclear whether the usually toothless body would be able to agree on decisive action by the end of the meeting.


“We can no longer accept empty meetings and meaningless resolutions,” he said at the start of proceedings.


Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi also hosted meetings Saturday with two regional heads of state to discuss the makings of what he and other regional leaders have promised would be a more robust response to Israel’s actions than in past conflicts.


He and Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan discussed joint efforts to stop Israel’s attack on Gaza, Morsi’s spokesman, Yasser Ali, said in a statement published by the state news agency Mena. Morsi also met with the emir of Qatar, Sheik Hamad Bin Khalifa al-Thani, to coordinate the delivery of emergency aid to Gaza, Mena reported...



The article is 4 pages long...

[aboutime]

I really don't care what happens between Israel and its adversaries. They can occupy all the territory they take and fire rockets at each other at will.
I just want the U.S. to stay out of it.


Gabby. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE. Have someone videotape YOU talking OUT YOUR ASS for the rest of us.

It must not hurt anymore, since you've been doing it so long. It just comes natural to you. Until you play SWITCH with your thumbs, one in your mouth, the other up your butt. THEN SWITCH.

[Trigg]

I really don't care what happens between Israel and its adversaries. They can occupy all the territory they take and fire rockets at each other at will.
I just want the U.S. to stay out of it.

I'd like to see little to no US involvement as well, but I doubt that will happen.

Israel has enough firepower to blow the hell out of most of their neighbors, so why not let them?

In the end though, if Obama wants to keep any credibility. he will have to help if Egypt gets anymore involved.

[jafar00]

I agree with you. Savages that ride donkeys.

I would hope Israel has some techniques in play to counter the disgusting pretence-photos these liars put out.

Nobody would bother them if they didn't constantly shoot rockets into Israel. I fail to see why that's okay with leftists: if it happened here in Maryland, we would be quite annoyed, I think. I sure would. Are people just supposed to put up with ethnic violence ---- because it's PC?

Probably.

Dehumanisation is the same thing as the Nazis did to the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto. Just Sayin'

[jimnyc]

Dehumanisation is the same thing as the Nazis did to the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto. Just Sayin'

Can't be more dehumanizing than claiming another people have no right to exist, and then try to lob rockets off of them, or claim "Allah willing" they will disappear from the Earth.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Dehumanisation is the same thing as the Nazis did to the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto. Just Sayin'

People that embrace total hatred and fill their heart with pure, dark evil thus becoming animals are rightly judged to be animals and its not a case of dehumanization at all. When humans become animals with no hope to cure them they should be put down for the greater good of the entire world. You defend terrorists animals as if they are not truly animals! You like Gabby are wrong and too much like them in your heart or else you wouldnt defend them so!
Just sayin'...Tyr

[Gaffer]

Actually I see no reason for the US to get involved in this war directly. Israel can handle it very well. They have the weapons and man power to do it and probably better intelligence of the region than the US. The US just needs to stand by in case other major countries from outside the region get involved like China, Russia, Iran.

Egypt may get involved as morsi will want to flex his muscle a bit. The brotherhood of Egypt would like to be the center of the caliphate they are establishing. And taking on Israel will look good on their resume. Hezbollah will possibly join in, but it would mean taking away from killing syrians to do so.