Venn Diagrams

[Robert A Whit]

Today i first heard of Venn Diagrams.

whe here has also heard of them?

Have you used them?

If you have, in what way?

To remind those interested, this link explains them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venn_diagram

[Kathianne]

Today i first heard of Venn Diagrams.

whe here has also heard of them?

Have you used them?

If you have, in what way?

To remind those interested, this link explains them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venn_diagram

Use them all the time in school. I's in my 50's and we used them all the time in school, are you seriously saying this is the first you've heard of them? They are basic to compare and contrast.

[KarlMarx]

Venn did you hear about them? :)


Seriously, Venn diagrams are used to illustrate the intersection and union of two, or more sets. A set is a collection of related objects, e.g. the set of DP posters

You can have a Venn diagram that shows the intersection of two sets (an intersection being the members of two or more sets which are common to all sets). Back to my example, you can have two sets, one consisting of members of DP and another set of Republican voters from New York... the intersection would be all members of DP who are Republican voters from New York.

or the union of two or more sets (a union being a set which includes all members of all sets), Back to my example again, the union of the two sets I described (DP posters and Republican voters from New York) would result in a set consisting of all DP posters AND all Republican voters from New York.

Venn diagrams are used in set theory... I guess it could also be used to illustrate boolean algebra (which is the study of mathematical logic). The intersection of two sets would be the AND function in boolean algebra.... the union would be the OR function

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boolean_algebra

[PostmodernProphet]

I am my own sphere.....

[fj1200]

Today i first heard of Venn Diagrams.

Dude, your F&F "expertise" credibility is taking a serious hit with all these "who-da-thunk-it" threads you're opening.

[tailfins]

Today i first heard of Venn Diagrams.

whe here has also heard of them?

Have you used them?

If you have, in what way?

To remind those interested, this link explains them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venn_diagram


Executives love them. I generally use them when I'm told I need to "dumb down" my presentation. They work well with PowerPoint presentations. I can see why you like them. Have you considered applying for an executive assistant opportunity?

[Thunderknuckles]

Executives love them.
Amen brother!
I've used them a time or two in data modeling for new software projects.

[Abbey Marie]

Dude, your F&F "expertise" credibility is taking a serious hit with all these "who-da-thunk-it" threads you're opening.

I find it refreshing on a board/Internet full of know-it-alls who would almost rather die than admit they didn't know something. :eek:

[tailfins]

I find it refreshing on a board/Internet full of know-it-alls who would almost rather die than admit they didn't know something. :eek:

The premise of the OP is to be condescending. He posts about a fourth grade concept and says "Look what I discovered". Get it?

[aboutime]

Venn someone here can prove to me how any of this makes any sense. Other than tongue-in-cheek. I'll take it seriously.

Last I checked. Nobody. But Nobody gives a crap about Venn anythiing.

Anyone who comes here to use this forum as a place to SHOW OFF their highly intellectual prowess as a means of demonstrating how SELF-CENTERED they are. Needs to get a LIFE.

[tailfins]

Venn someone here can prove to me how any of this makes any sense. Other than tongue-in-cheek. I'll take it seriously.

Last I checked. Nobody. But Nobody gives a crap about Venn anythiing.

Anyone who comes here to use this forum as a place to SHOW OFF their highly intellectual prowess as a means of demonstrating how SELF-CENTERED they are. Needs to get a LIFE.

To me it's an insult of sorts: i.e. Do you want me to draw you a Venn diagram ?

[aboutime]

To me it's an insult of sorts: i.e. Do you want me to draw you a Venn diagram ?


tailfins. You were insulted by that?

You can draw all of the Venn diagrams you like. Knock yourself out. Do whatever makes you feel better. I don't care.

If you have a burning need to demonstrate your knowledge, and brag about being able to draw a Venn diagram. Just to show others who either HAVE NO IDEA what a Venn diagram is. Or WHO Venn was.

GO FOR IT.


LOGICALLY SPEAKING....Do whatever you feel a need to do.

Like most of the rest of the 310 Million Americans who have no idea WHO their Senator is. Nobody really cares about Venn, or his Historical contributions to the world..other than the few of you who need to BRAG.

[tailfins]

tailfins. You were insulted by that?

You can draw all of the Venn diagrams you like. Knock yourself out. Do whatever makes you feel better. I don't care.

If you have a burning need to demonstrate your knowledge, and brag about being able to draw a Venn diagram. Just to show others who either HAVE NO IDEA what a Venn diagram is. Or WHO Venn was.

GO FOR IT.


LOGICALLY SPEAKING....Do whatever you feel a need to do.

Like most of the rest of the 310 Million Americans who have no idea WHO their Senator is. Nobody really cares about Venn, or his Historical contributions to the world..other than the few of you who need to BRAG.

What I'm trying to tell you is "Do you want me to draw you a Venn diagram?" is a variation of "Do you want me to draw you a picture?", essentially calling the listener illiterate.

[aboutime]

What I'm trying to tell you is "Do you want me to draw you a Venn diagram?" is a variation of "Do you want me to draw you a picture?", essentially calling the listener illiterate.


tailfins. Why do you have any need, or reason to do that here? Other than to show yourself how well that "GOTCHA" thing works?

[Robert A Whit]

Use them all the time in school. I's in my 50's and we used them all the time in school, are you seriously saying this is the first you've heard of them? They are basic to compare and contrast.

I always took higher math courses and never took logic courses. But yes, it was a question on Jeapordy and all 3 women got it right. I had not heard of them. But rememer that I graduated HS in 1956 and my college courses were Anylitical geometry and calculus courses.

What did you compare and contrast?

I may decide to go indepth on them but maybe it is not worth it. This is the purpos of my question. Give me examples of how you used them please.

[Robert A Whit]

Venn did you hear about them? :)


Seriously, Venn diagrams are used to illustrate the intersection and union of two, or more sets. A set is a collection of related objects, e.g. the set of DP posters

You can have a Venn diagram that shows the intersection of two sets (an intersection being the members of two or more sets which are common to all sets). Back to my example, you can have two sets, one consisting of members of DP and another set of Republican voters from New York... the intersection would be all members of DP who are Republican voters from New York.

or the union of two or more sets (a union being a set which includes all members of all sets), Back to my example again, the union of the two sets I described (DP posters and Republican voters from New York) would result in a set consisting of all DP posters AND all Republican voters from New York.

Venn diagrams are used in set theory... I guess it could also be used to illustrate boolean algebra (which is the study of mathematical logic). The intersection of two sets would be the AND function in boolean algebra.... the union would be the OR function

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boolean_algebra

I had first looked at what Wikipedia said so what you say is familiar due to my study yesterday.

I had higher math. But never studied Boolean algebra though I had heard of that. But Venn was brand new to me. I am the product of an era where Algebra and Geometry and Trig was my courses in high school and advanced Trig. In college I immediately was in Calculus.

I have not worked with set theory.

Can you show me some concrete purpose where problems can be solved? The diagrams on Wikipedia explained how the circles intersect and how unions work, etc.

I just did not have any of that in school.

Got any ideas of a good book on this?

[Robert A Whit]

Dude, your F&F "expertise" credibility is taking a serious hit with all these "who-da-thunk-it" threads you're opening.

How so? How do you relate Venn diagrams to F&F?

[Robert A Whit]

Venn did you hear about them? :)


Seriously, Venn diagrams are used to illustrate the intersection and union of two, or more sets. A set is a collection of related objects, e.g. the set of DP posters

You can have a Venn diagram that shows the intersection of two sets (an intersection being the members of two or more sets which are common to all sets). Back to my example, you can have two sets, one consisting of members of DP and another set of Republican voters from New York... the intersection would be all members of DP who are Republican voters from New York.

or the union of two or more sets (a union being a set which includes all members of all sets), Back to my example again, the union of the two sets I described (DP posters and Republican voters from New York) would result in a set consisting of all DP posters AND all Republican voters from New York.

Venn diagrams are used in set theory... I guess it could also be used to illustrate boolean algebra (which is the study of mathematical logic). The intersection of two sets would be the AND function in boolean algebra.... the union would be the OR function

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boolean_algebra

Hey thanks. So far and I have only read 4 messages, yours is the outstanding post.

[Robert A Whit]

Executives love them. I generally use them when I'm told I need to "dumb down" my presentation. They work well with PowerPoint presentations. I can see why you like them. Have you considered applying for an executive assistant opportunity?

Very good reply. I liked KarlMarx the best so far but you showed me a use of them I knew nothing of. I plan to check my powerpoint to see if it contains them.

I was not impressed with Kaths reply. She sounded superior and I only wanted decent replies and some other wise acre chided me for not knowing them. That was of no help at all.

[fj1200]

How so? How do you relate Venn diagrams to F&F?

Done. ;)

[Robert A Whit]

I find it refreshing on a board/Internet full of know-it-alls who would almost rather die than admit they didn't know something. :eek:

Thanks. I focus in like a laser on topics I want to know about. And I go so deep that my comments may seem like a know it all but trust me, a lot of things I am in the dark about.

One poster mentioned Boolean Algebra and one time, many years ago I took a look at a book dealing with that but on that one, I did not dig deep.

It is never too late to take up a new thing to learn. I am always open to something new.

Take the drugs I take daily. Believe it or not, I can look at the labels and have a hard time trying to tell you what any of the drugs are for. I leave that up to the doctor. He knows. I know that my Metformin is for my type II diabetes but found out just the other day from my cardiologist that the doctors have me on a drug to help my thyroid. Why don't they make the names of drugs simple. Asprin is very simple for instance.

[Robert A Whit]

The premise of the OP is to be condescending. He posts about a fourth grade concept and says "Look what I discovered". Get it?

What a strange reply. I am getting the hang of your thinking along with this other person,. FJ something.

I was in the 4th grade not long after the end of WWII and where I lived, the teachers probably had never heard of it. I plan to ask both of my daughters to see if it was in their school courses. They both were very advanced in school so would know.

[Robert A Whit]

Venn someone here can prove to me how any of this makes any sense. Other than tongue-in-cheek. I'll take it seriously.

Last I checked. Nobody. But Nobody gives a crap about Venn anythiing.

Anyone who comes here to use this forum as a place to SHOW OFF their highly intellectual prowess as a means of demonstrating how SELF-CENTERED they are. Needs to get a LIFE.

My god man. You must be living a very rough time. Are you still pissed off about Obama to the point you can't discuss something new?

Some posters have tried to be helpful. Your post was not one bit helpful and all you did was whine.

I appreciate honest and helpful replies.

None of us knows it all. I don't pretend to.

Most ot the topics I have spoken to I happen to have worked hard to understand.

If that makes you jealous to the point you keep running me down, I feel sorry for you. I really do.

[aboutime]

My god man. You must be living a very rough time. Are you still pissed off about Obama to the point you can't discuss something new?

Some posters have tried to be helpful. Your post was not one bit helpful and all you did was whine.

I appreciate honest and helpful replies.

None of us knows it all. I don't pretend to.

Most ot the topics I have spoken to I happen to have worked hard to understand.

If that makes you jealous to the point you keep running me down, I feel sorry for you. I really do.


I feel sorry for you Robert. If you bothered to check my response, early on. I was defending you.
If you call that being pissed off about Obama
I resubmit my suggestion from yesterday. That you should see a Psychiatrist.
Go back and read what I said....in your defense.
On the other hand.
Never mind.

[tailfins]

What a strange reply. I am getting the hang of your thinking along with this other person,. FJ something.

I was in the 4th grade not long after the end of WWII and where I lived, the teachers probably had never heard of it. I plan to ask both of my daughters to see if it was in their school courses. They both were very advanced in school so would know.

Thank you for pointing that out. The range of perspectives on the planet is simply amazing; I sometimes overlook that. In my orb, saying you need to make a Venn diagram for somebody is a put-down, the same as calling them an idiot. You have made me appreciate that there are people out there that can efficiently use a slide rule, restore a victrola or build a house that rarely use a computer.

[Robert A Whit]

I feel sorry for you Robert. If you bothered to check my response, early on. I was defending you.
If you call that being pissed off about Obama
I resubmit my suggestion from yesterday. That you should see a Psychiatrist.
Go back and read what I said....in your defense.
On the other hand.
Never mind.

Look, you repeated your slam on me just above that you used yesterday.

You sure did not seem to be defending me on the post I noticed. I did see one of your posts that appeared to stand up for me. Thanks for that post.

When you spend your day kicking me down and then the next day you arrive on my new thread and write the way you write, dont' blame me for recalling your smears of me.

[Robert A Whit]

Thank you for pointing that out. The range of perspectives on the planet is simply amazing; I sometimes overlook that. In my orb, saying you need to make a Venn diagram for somebody is a put-down, the same as calling them an idiot. You have made me appreciate that there are people out there that can efficiently use a slide rule, restore a victrola or build a house that rarely use a computer.

Tailfins, maybe you need to take things like that into account. I had not heard of Venn so in my world I have never hears of it being used as an insult.

I was making a simple inquiry is all. I hoped to hear a poster tell me that they were used this way or that way and they used them. Then I hoped to learn just how it is used daily and for what purpose. I am not well versed in Set theory though I am well aware of that. I was not aware of Venn until it came up on the TV program Jeapordy. The 3 women got it right and I was amazed. I have 2 daughters, 20 years apart in age. I plan to find out if they were taught that concept. Both were in advanced classes including some college while in high school. The oldest got a college degree and sadly the youngest rushed to marry and is waiting tables. But she is so smart that if she studied Venn she can tell me.

[Kathianne]

Well Robert, you've a few years on me.

Let's say your teaching economic systems: communism, capitalism, socialism

3 intersecting circles. Where they intersect, one lists the factors they share. In each 'clean area' of the circle, the factors that pertain only to that one system. Thus it's a graphic organizer to be used either to study or for writing a paper.

Very early grade assignment:

Which holiday do you like best, Christmas or Thanksgiving?

Two circles. Intersecting might be foods, family, travel, whatever works for the little dears.

Christmas would likely have toys, shopping, etc.

Again, an easy way for the child to see how to compare and contrast and organize their story.

[aboutime]

Look, you repeated your slam on me just above that you used yesterday.

You sure did not seem to be defending me on the post I noticed. I did see one of your posts that appeared to stand up for me. Thanks for that post.

When you spend your day kicking me down and then the next day you arrive on my new thread and write the way you write, dont' blame me for recalling your smears of me.

Robert. Since when are RECOMMENDATIONS smears? As for kicking you down. I have no need to do such a thing. You do that rather well yourself, without my help..

I was dead serious about you seeing a Psychiatrist. That may have been a smear to you. So. I apologize if you took it that way.

[Robert A Whit]

Well Robert, you've a few years on me.

Let's say your teaching economic systems: communism, capitalism, socialism

3 intersecting circles. Where they intersect, one lists the factors they share. In each 'clean area' of the circle, the factors that pertain only to that one system. Thus it's a graphic organizer to be used either to study or for writing a paper.

Very early grade assignment:

Which holiday do you like best, Christmas or Thanksgiving?

Two circles. Intersecting might be foods, family, travel, whatever works for the little dears.

Christmas would likely have toys, shopping, etc.

Again, an easy way for the child to see how to compare and contrast and organize their story.

Back when I was a child, they taught us to make stone axes by chipping stone so we could slay a buffalo or deer when we got hungry.
:laugh:
Do you know that my mom had ice in the refrigerator to keep food cold?
:laugh:
I chopped off the end of my big toe on the left foot as a kid chopping wood for my moms stove.

We had never heard of a TV. Radio was my form of entertainment.

But I like your reply.

Can you think of a time when more than 3 circles are needed?

I saw two and three circle diagrams. I figured that those in the enclosed area were just the common items and other items were placed in the other enclosed areas. I figured it looked a bit more like logic than math.

I wish I had a chance to study logic when I was still in school.

I have used matrixes at times to solve similar problems.

[Robert A Whit]

Robert. Since when are RECOMMENDATIONS smears? As for kicking you down. I have no need to do such a thing. You do that rather well yourself, without my help..

I was dead serious about you seeing a Psychiatrist. That may have been a smear to you. So. I apologize if you took it that way.

Look, I tried to show you the error of your ways on a different thread so won't show you how pissed off you just made me.

You don't want anybody to like you.

I feel bad you are that way.

You are right.

YOU SHOLD NOT HAVE ANY NEED.

But dammit, you can't seem to put an end to it. Read before sending and you will be better liked.

[Kathianne]

Back when I was a child, they taught us to make stone axes by chipping stone so we could slay a buffalo or deer when we got hungry.
:laugh:
Do you know that my mom had ice in the refrigerator to keep food cold?
:laugh:
I chopped off the end of my big toe on the left foot as a kid chopping wood for my moms stove.

We had never heard of a TV. Radio was my form of entertainment.

But I like your reply.

Can you think of a time when more than 3 circles are needed?

I saw two and three circle diagrams. I figured that those in the enclosed area were just the common items and other items were placed in the other enclosed areas. I figured it looked a bit more like logic than math.

I wish I had a chance to study logic when I was still in school.

I have used matrixes at times to solve similar problems.

Someone said about using Venn to 'dumb down' and there's truth in that. More than 3 comparisons though seems like another graphic organizer would be better choice.

However, when trying to quickly show information or to get your own thinking clarified, graphic organizers have their purpose. There's lots of sites out there with Venns, t charts, chronological, etc out there. Here's one: http://www.nvo.com/ecnewletter/graphicorganizers/

ignore the decorations if present, just look at the flow.

[aboutime]

Look, I tried to show you the error of your ways on a different thread so won't show you how pissed off you just made me.

You don't want anybody to like you.

I feel bad you are that way.

You are right.

YOU SHOLD NOT HAVE ANY NEED.

But dammit, you can't seem to put an end to it. Read before sending and you will be better liked.


Robert. This is a Public forum.

Why must you constantly come here to recite your entire past History, in such a long, boring, autobiographical way all the time.

Have you ever heard the expression?

I asked you what time it was. So...don't tell me how the clock works!

As for being better liked.

I don't care who does, or doesn't like me here.

This forum is not some Popularity Contest like American Idol, or the Miss America pageant.

As for YOU...laughingly showing me....The Error of my Ways?

Who died and told you you were in charge of mine, or anyone else's life?

Go back to being a member of this forum. And stop trying to prove everyone else ALWAYS WRONG.

[Robert A Whit]

Someone said about using Venn to 'dumb down' and there's truth in that. More than 3 comparisons though seems like another graphic organizer would be better choice.

However, when trying to quickly show information or to get your own thinking clarified, graphic organizers have their purpose. There's lots of sites out there with Venns, t charts, chronological, etc out there. Here's one: http://www.nvo.com/ecnewletter/graphicorganizers/

ignore the decorations if present, just look at the flow.

Great site.

Now we are getting somewhere.

Have you heard of or used PERT graphing?

When I owned a machine shop, I studied them and to this day have the PERT chart use manual with what looks like the slide rule that comes with the package.

When one needs to make schedules, I recommend it for things that actual planning dates can be included.

Anothere thing where i planned was over a sales force and I wanted a reward / no reward system to get the sales force to take a personal interest in goal setting so I had them set goals.

I found that with salesmen, it is best to involve them in setting goals and goals they believe in.

That is another story though. Pert planning won't work well with salesmen since they are out in the field and can goof off when they want to.

[Robert A Whit]

Look bub, until YOU decided to insult me, then harass me with your ugly posts, I tolerated you.
I hope this forum has an ignore system. i plan to use it on you and you can just use it on me since you can't stand my posts. And you damned well don't have enough class to keep this forum civil. When you told me you don't give a damn if somebody likes you, that told me all i want to know.

[tailfins]

Tailfins, maybe you need to take things like that into account. I had not heard of Venn so in my world I have never hears of it being used as an insult.

I was making a simple inquiry is all. I hoped to hear a poster tell me that they were used this way or that way and they used them. Then I hoped to learn just how it is used daily and for what purpose. I am not well versed in Set theory though I am well aware of that. I was not aware of Venn until it came up on the TV program Jeapordy. The 3 women got it right and I was amazed. I have 2 daughters, 20 years apart in age. I plan to find out if they were taught that concept. Both were in advanced classes including some college while in high school. The oldest got a college degree and sadly the youngest rushed to marry and is waiting tables. But she is so smart that if she studied Venn she can tell me.

Do you want a Venn diagram that stays the same or changes as information changes? You can do that in Microsoft Excel. If you want to project it to an audience with a projector, you can also use Powerpoint and have a slideshow.

You can get a free beta version of Microsoft Office 2013 which contains Word, Powerpoint and Excel at:

http://www.microsoft.com/office/preview/en/try-office-preview


Instructions on how to create the Venn diagram are below:

http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/excel-help/create-a-venn-diagram-HA010335959.aspx

(http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/excel-help/create-a-venn-diagram-HA010335959.aspx)

[aboutime]

Look bub, until YOU decided to insult me, then harass me with your ugly posts, I tolerated you.
I hope this forum has an ignore system. i plan to use it on you and you can just use it on me since you can't stand my posts. And you damned well don't have enough class to keep this forum civil. When you told me you don't give a damn if somebody likes you, that told me all i want to know.


How can that be Robert? If I said I don't give a damn. How did that tell you all you wanted to know?

As for class. Who said anything....before you. About class?

Please do use the Ignore feature. It will help you learn more about civility.

[Robert A Whit]

Do you want a Venn diagram that stays the same or changes as information changes? You can do that in Microsoft Excel. If you want to project it to an audience with a projector, you can also use Powerpoint and have a slideshow.

You can get a free beta version of Microsoft Office 2013 which contains Word, Powerpoint and Excel at:

http://www.microsoft.com/office/preview/en/try-office-preview


Instructions on how to create the Venn diagram are below:

http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/excel-help/create-a-venn-diagram-HA010335959.aspx

(http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/excel-help/create-a-venn-diagram-HA010335959.aspx)

Thanks a lot.

I looked at the Venn circles and then I went to my Excell and found it is not able to create circles.

However it will create global maps so I learned something new today.

Since I have XP and not later versions of windows, I am unable to use the sites you gave since they require Windows 7.

I am so happy I asked about Venn circles since I have learned a lot of new stuff.

Thanks to all who helped.

A pox on those who created a brawl on this topic.

[Robert A Whit]

Please do use the Ignore feature. It will help you learn more about civility.



By excluding you. I wondered if you got the point.

Since you are the malcontent, getting rid of you will return things to civility.

[tailfins]

Thanks a lot.

I looked at the Venn circles and then I went to my Excell and found it is not able to create circles.

However it will create global maps so I learned something new today.

Since I have XP and not later versions of windows, I am unable to use the sites you gave since they require Windows 7.

I am so happy I asked about Venn circles since I have learned a lot of new stuff.

Thanks to all who helped.

A pox on those who created a brawl on this topic.


You can get Windows 8 at for $40. Their direct credit card processing is broken, so make sure you use the PayPal option.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows/buy

[aboutime]

By excluding you. I wondered if you got the point.

Since you are the malcontent, getting rid of you will return things to civility.


For whatever reason Robert. You have achieved whatever victory you were destined to find here.

That malcontent idea began with you.

[Abbey Marie]

The premise of the OP is to be condescending. He posts about a fourth grade concept and says "Look what I discovered". Get it?

No, sorry, I don't get it. I took his post for just what it appeared to be- someone talking about a concept that was new to him. If there is history between Robert and another that better explains the post, it wasn't obvious to everyone.

Robert- was your original post intended to be condescending?

[logroller]

tailfins. You were insulted by that?

You can draw all of the Venn diagrams you like. Knock yourself out. Do whatever makes you feel better. I don't care.

If you have a burning need to demonstrate your knowledge, and brag about being able to draw a Venn diagram. Just to show others who either HAVE NO IDEA what a Venn diagram is. Or WHO Venn was.

GO FOR IT.


LOGICALLY SPEAKING....Do whatever you feel a need to do.

Like most of the rest of the 310 Million Americans who have no idea WHO their Senator is. Nobody really cares about Venn, or his Historical contributions to the world..other than the few of you who need to BRAG.
LOL@ saying "logically speaking" after dismissing Venn diagrams as negligible. For those who don't care to visualize two or more circles, a Venn diagram describes the concepts "and", "or" "neither".

Shout out to the fellow data modeler. Was that tknuckles? Ive only been doing it a week professionally, but I've found it as interesting as it is frustrating. Mostly just tweaking outputs but I worked with attribute tables, and did a union function yesterday. Venn diagrams are way easier to comprehend such operation, but its nig so functional with thousands of data values. What kind of software do you use? We use qubit primarily, and arcmap.

[Robert A Whit]

No, sorry, I don't get it. I took his post for just what it appeared to be- someone talking about a concept that was new to him. If there is history between Robert and another that better explains the post, it wasn't obvious to everyone.

Robert- was your original post intended to be condescending?

Absolutely not.

I contactd my oldest daughter since she graduated from a UC University by perhaps 1984 what she knew of Venn diagrams, She said in HS she had not run into it but did in college in her courses and she knew just what it is. What is wild is she has two sons. Her youngest is in the 5th grade and he uses them and knows what they are. Talk about feeling darned old. LOL

She told me her son in the 10th grade also is well versed in them.

I was thinking of how long ago my teachers were educated and since I started grade school in 1944 that places my teachers education back to maybe in the 1920s in some cases. Even my high school teachers were for the most part middle aged teachers.

[Kathianne]

Absolutely not.

I contactd my oldest daughter since she graduated from a UC University by perhaps 1984 what she knew of Venn diagrams, She said in HS she had not run into it but did in college in her courses and she knew just what it is. What is wild is she has two sons. Her youngest is in the 5th grade and he uses them and knows what they are. Talk about feeling darned old. LOL

She told me her son in the 10th grade also is well versed in them.

I was thinking of how long ago my teachers were educated and since I started grade school in 1944 that places my teachers education back to maybe in the 1920s in some cases. Even my high school teachers were for the most part middle aged teachers.

Very common from 1st grade. Indeed, a simple google search comes up with these:

http://theinspiredapple.blogspot.com/2012/01/venn-with-friends.html



One of our skills this week was comparing and contrasting, so I brought out old Venny. First, we did a whole group activity where we used a Venn diagram to compare and contrast two little kiddos that I drew.
http://lh3.ggpht.com/-nOuSXwOzW3g/TyIPu8WZNfI/AAAAAAAABFY/N1XVP9aLY30/020_thumb%25255B6%25255D.jpg?imgmax=800 (http://lh5.ggpht.com/-RbWwhLN9U98/TyIPuZKRpNI/AAAAAAAABFU/NU_374nZnYU/s1600-h/020%25255B6%25255D.jpg)
Then, I had one of my teacher friends pop in for a few minutes so the kids could watch us model the activity they were getting ready to complete. {Also, LOVE my Smartboard. Love, love, love it. How did I EVER teach without it?!}
http://lh3.ggpht.com/-OJIC4SCNlwQ/TyIPvim-QgI/AAAAAAAABFo/mb4-jd-HjrM/019_thumb%25255B6%25255D.jpg?imgmax=800 (http://lh5.ggpht.com/-7jPlnFNBPfQ/TyIPvVvhJgI/AAAAAAAABFg/D8pZFs0ctY0/s1600-h/019%25255B5%25255D.jpg)
Next, I partnered the kididdles up so they could compare themselves to one another. They loved it!
http://lh4.ggpht.com/-yOT31f7I91Y/TyIPwKuJ0wI/AAAAAAAABF4/WJzniQZa76Y/018_thumb%25255B2%25255D.jpg?imgmax=800 (http://lh4.ggpht.com/-FEZcXKW5b6Y/TyIPv0JKQQI/AAAAAAAABFw/y2foAkZnNs4/s1600-h/018%25255B5%25255D.jpg) http://lh5.ggpht.com/-iaScb_ISup8/TyIPw2gv7iI/AAAAAAAABGI/c83BVJi9AE8/021_thumb%25255B2%25255D.jpg?imgmax=800 (http://lh5.ggpht.com/-Azw-Lv0gQnQ/TyIPwllYqDI/AAAAAAAABGA/e4O32M9-k7k/s1600-h/021%25255B5%25255D.jpg)


http://trip.schoolinsites.com/Default.asp?L=2&LMID=148345&PN=Pages&DivisionID=3930&DepartmentID=3714&SubDepartmentID=&SubP=Level2&PageID=6115&SubPageID=5447


First Grade Mathematics Standard 13

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Summarize information from graphs, including pictographs, tally charts, bar graphs, or Venn diagrams.
Lesson Plans:
Amazing Attributes (http://illuminations.nctm.org/LessonDetail.aspx?id=U186)
Nine lessons designed to build skills required for collecting, organizing, displaying and using data.
Apples, Apples, Apples (http://successlink.org/GTI/lesson_unit-viewer.asp?lid=3675)
Students will organize data, information and ideas into useful form including charts, graphs, and outlines. Can be adapted for use with Tech COS 9, 10.
Fruit Loops Graphs (http://successlink.org/GTI/lesson_unit-viewer.asp?lid=2065)
In this lesson students will use colored cereal to learn to organize data, prepare graphs, and analyze results. (Lesson loads low on the page. Scroll down on page.) Can be adapted for use with Tech COS 9, 10.
What's For Lunch? (http://www.successlink.org/GTI/lesson_unit-viewer.asp?lid=3502)
Students produce a tally sheet, a bar graph, and persuasive letter to the school cooks. Can be adapted for use with Tech COS 9, 10.
Introducing the Venn Diagram in the Kindergarten Classroom (http://www.readwritethink.org/lessons/lesson_view.asp?id=378)
This lesson introduces the Venn Diagram to kindergarten students but can be easily adapted to first grade.
Do You Like to Spend or Save? (http://www.usmint.gov/kids/teachers/lessonPlans/viewLP.cfm?lessonPlanId=63)
After briefly discussing spending and saving habits, the class takes a poll to see how their peers like to manage money. Then students graph their findings and discuss the survey results.
Turkeys or Eagles? (http://www.usmint.gov/kids/teachers/lessonPlans/viewLP.cfm?lessonPlanId=64)
After discussing how Benjamin Franklin wanted the wild turkey (not the bald eagle) to be our national bird, students graph their preferences and discuss the survey results. Can be adapted for use with Tech COS 9, 10.
Using a Venn Diagram to Illustrate that Bears and Humans are Both Mammals (http://www.learnnc.org/lessons/slovett772002135)
Students will use two graphic organizers to collect information on bears and compare them to humans through a Venn diagram.
Using Venn Diagrams to Compare and Contrast (http://www.learnnc.org/lessons/billwisser962004536)
In order to be able to compare and contrast weather in other parts around the country and the world, the students will learn how to use a graphic organizer (Venn diagram) to visualize likeness and differences between two things.

[Robert A Whit]

LOL@ saying "logically speaking" after dismissing Venn diagrams as negligible. For those who don't care to visualize two or more circles, a Venn diagram describes the concepts "and", "or" "neither".

Shout out to the fellow data modeler. Was that tknuckles? Ive only been doing it a week professionally, but I've found it as interesting as it is frustrating. Mostly just tweaking outputs but I worked with attribute tables, and did a union function yesterday. Venn diagrams are way easier to comprehend such operation, but its nig so functional with thousands of data values. What kind of software do you use? We use qubit primarily, and arcmap.

To some of you this is obvious and rather simple. I am glad I asked. I am learning from some of the posters such as the above post. I so appreciate this.

[Kathianne]

Absolutely not.

I contactd my oldest daughter since she graduated from a UC University by perhaps 1984 what she knew of Venn diagrams, She said in HS she had not run into it but did in college in her courses and she knew just what it is. What is wild is she has two sons. Her youngest is in the 5th grade and he uses them and knows what they are. Talk about feeling darned old. LOL

She told me her son in the 10th grade also is well versed in them.

I was thinking of how long ago my teachers were educated and since I started grade school in 1944 that places my teachers education back to maybe in the 1920s in some cases. Even my high school teachers were for the most part middle aged teachers.

I would guess that she had them from early years, somehow the name of them escaped her or perhaps in a district that didn't give titles to organizers. As I said, I had Venn diagrams in school, by that name. I'm in my 50's.

It's not recent and not a 'higher level' tool.

[Robert A Whit]

Very common from 1st grade. Indeed, a simple google search comes up with these:

http://theinspiredapple.blogspot.com/2012/01/venn-with-friends.html



http://trip.schoolinsites.com/Default.asp?L=2&LMID=148345&PN=Pages&DivisionID=3930&DepartmentID=3714&SubDepartmentID=&SubP=Level2&PageID=6115&SubPageID=5447

I have tons more faith in the kids and teachers now that I saw this. I plan to check my city and find out if this is done here.

This is awesome. I know calculus but was totally ignorant of Venn Diagrams. I am very familiar though with Pert charts. What do you know about Pert charts?

[Robert A Whit]

I would guess that she had them from early years, somehow the name of them escaped her or perhaps in a district that didn't give titles to organizers. As I said, I had Venn diagrams in school, by that name. I'm in my 50's.

It's not recent and not a 'higher level' tool.

I have to call Hawaii to speak to my youngest daughter but my oldest told me she is certain she learned them in college. Her 5th grade son is in a hand picked school since whe was not happy with schools in her city. Even the oldest attends a high school in a different city. Both boys are taken to school by her.

Though married, my youngest has no children.

I swear, I had heard CA schools are great. You have me doubting our schools.

[Kathianne]

I have to call Hawaii to speak to my youngest daughter but my oldest told me she is certain she learned them in college. Her 5th grade son is in a hand picked school since whe was not happy with schools in her city. Even the oldest attends a high school in a different city. Both boys are taken to school by her.

Though married, my youngest has no children.

I swear, I had heard CA schools are great. You have me doubting our schools.

If your daughter is in 30's and 40's and believes she never came across Venn diagram's before high school/college, you should be fighting for some tuition or tax money back. Really.

[Robert A Whit]

This must have something to do with my age.
This afternoon, Louise who rents desk space from me discussed this topic.

First who is Louise.

She is a good friend who grew up in MA. Her and her husband, both of whom have degrees in college, she has two masters and he has a degree in microbiology have long lived in CA.

Anyway, I asked her what she knew about Venn Diagrams.

She looked at me with a puzzle look. What are they she asks.

I explained them and the topic of contention.

She said she had never heard of Venn but once I explained them as circles of data, she knew what they are.

I asked if she used them when she taught school. She said she had not.

Louise is on Social Security so you can see she is over 65.

Honestly, i don't feel bad at all for not knowing about Venn Diagrams.

Till I read Wikipedia then posted on this topic and some of you great people were of help in discussing them with me offering me your wisdom.

[logroller]

This must have something to do with my age.
This afternoon, Louise who rents desk space from me discussed this topic.

First who is Louise.

She is a good friend who grew up in MA. Her and her husband, both of whom have degrees in college, she has two masters and he has a degree in microbiology have long lived in CA.

Anyway, I asked her what she knew about Venn Diagrams.

She looked at me with a puzzle look. What are they she asks.

I explained them and the topic of contention.

She said she had never heard of Venn but once I explained them as circles of data, she knew what they are.

I asked if she used them when she taught school. She said she had not.

Louise is on Social Security so you can see she is over 65.

Honestly, i don't feel bad at all for not knowing about Venn Diagrams.

Till I read Wikipedia then posted on this topic and some of you great people were of help in discussing them with me offering me your wisdom.Proof you're never too old to learn.
And never feel bad about learning something new. ;)

[Robert A Whit]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Robert A Whit http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=593351#post593351)
Absolutely not.

I contactd my oldest daughter since she graduated from a UC University by perhaps 1984 what she knew of Venn diagrams, She said in HS she had not run into it but did in college in her courses and she knew just what it is. What is wild is she has two sons. Her youngest is in the 5th grade and he uses them and knows what they are. Talk about feeling darned old. LOL

She told me her son in the 10th grade also is well versed in them.

I was thinking of how long ago my teachers were educated and since I started grade school in 1944 that places my teachers education back to maybe in the 1920s in some cases. Even my high school teachers were for the most part middle aged teachers.


Since I wrote this, I further talked to my daughter and not that it is vital, I want to correct something.
She graduated from high school in 1984 rather than college. She graduated from UC Cal State in 1988 she told me.

[Robert A Whit]

Proof you're never too old to learn.
And never feel bad about learning something new. ;)

Yup. But I have not claimed that one is too old to learn.

She was quite willing to learn something new.