56% of Britons Would Vote To Quit EU

[Kathianne]

Drummond, take heart.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/nov/17/eu-referendum-poll?CMP=twt_gu


Series: Observer Opinium politics polls (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/series/observer-opinium-politics-polls) Previous (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/nov/03/labour-tories-observer-opinion-poll) | Next (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/nov/17/lib-dem-voters-eu-poll) | Index (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/series/observer-opinium-politics-polls)

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2012/9/21/1348243128979/Opinium-observer-politics_620x120_.gif (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/series/observer-opinium-politics-polls) http://imageceu1.247realmedia.com/0/default/empty.gif (http://oas.guardian.co.uk/5c/www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/nov/17/eu-referendum-poll/oas.html/1241336524/Frame2/default/empty.gif/526f4e6b4131436f666c4d4141486b48?x)

56% of Britons would vote to quit EU in referendum, poll finds Results of survey will make sobering reading for leaders of three major parties, as PM prepares for crucial meeting on EU budget




Daniel Boffey (http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/daniel-boffey) and Toby Helm (http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/tobyhelm)


The Observer (http://observer.guardian.co.uk/), <time itemprop="datePublished" datetime="2012-11-17T14:56EST" pubdate="">Saturday 17 November 2012 14.56 EST</time>



Well over half of British voters now want to leave the European Union (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/eu), according to an opinion poll that shows anti-EU sentiment is sweeping through all three main political parties.


The Opinium/Observer survey finds that 56% of people would probably or definitely vote for the UK to go it alone if they were offered the choice in a referendum. About 68% of Conservative voters want to leave the EU, against 24% who want to remain; 44% of Labour voters would probably choose to get out, against 39% who would back staying in, while some 39% of Liberal Democrats would probably or definitely vote to get out, compared with 47% who would prefer to remain in the EU.


The findings will make sobering reading for all three major parties, which are at risk of losing support to the buoyant anti-EU party Ukip – now two points ahead of the Lib Dems on 10%.


http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/maps_and_graphs/2012/11/17/1353180988616/EU-membership-poll-001.jpg Credit: Observer graphics

...

[jafar00]

Th UK has never really fully participated in the EU. They have had some influence though but never full participation. Otherwise they would have the Euro instead of the Pound which is a very important part of Britishness.

[Kathianne]

Th UK has never really fully participated in the EU. They have had some influence though but never full participation. Otherwise they would have the Euro instead of the Pound which is a very important part of Britishness.

Well Captain Obvious, what next?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Drummond, take heart.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/nov/17/eu-referendum-poll?CMP=twt_gu

Perhaps he had better not take too much heart .
What a majority wants does not always bear fruit, for recent evidence look at obamacare here. The powers that be often have ways to negate the wishes of the majority even if it be by hook and crook. Obama had a majority of people wanting him gone but presto- like magic - we have him again.
Do not misunderstand , I hope you are correct and that bears fruit but I have grave doubts that it will. -Tyr

[Drummond]

I've just caught up with this thread. It's good to see it here, and my thanks for its being posted.

I also think I saw this statistic in the Daily Express a couple of days ago.

Such stories aren't particularly rare or even unusual, though. It's an 'open secret' that support for a Referendum on EU membership is popular amongst us Brits, and there's been speculation for a long time that the chief reason we don't get such a Referendum is that the Government knows that a 'get out' vote would follow. David Cameron .. prodded rather hard at times from his Parliamentary Back-Benchers .. makes pronouncements about how he'll stand up to EU demands of us, chiefly for billions of pounds sterling more to be paid into EU coffers. He does that to stave off the impression that he's too supportive of the EU.

Indeed ... the current outrage is that the EU wants us to give our convicted prisoners the right to vote !!!!! Cameron, I believe, intends to continue to resist such calls, which the EU would claim makes us act 'unconstitutionally' in their eyes.

But, still ... I want us to be rid of the EU. It's putting it diplomatically to say that what treaty ties we have with Europe act as a millstone around our collective neck. The European Common Market was a reasonable idea ... European countries getting together for beneficial trading. These days, it's a control freaks' paradise, with EU legislators working to unify all Member States into ever greater political indivisibility.

What Hitler ultimately failed to achieve militarily, the EU may yet achieve.

Jafar seemingly laments the UK not signing into the Euro ? Well, look how THAT failed experiment is turning out !! If Jafar thinks we should have linked ourselves to that currency, I'd like him to account for why he wishes the UK such harm.

[Thunderknuckles]

Keep up the good fight my British cousins!

[Kathianne]

I could be wrong, but when it comes to 'popular votes' EU doesn't fare to well, no?

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/31/international/europe/31france.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0


<nyt_headline version="1.0" type=" "> French No Vote on European Constitution Rattles Continent</nyt_headline><nyt_byline version="1.0" type=" ">By
<alt-code idsrc="nyt-per" value="Sciolino, Elaine">ELAINE SCIOLINO</alt-code></person>
</nyt_byline> Published: May 31, 2005


<!--NYT_INLINE_IMAGE_POSITION1 --> PARIS, May 30 - The shock waves of France's rejection of a constitution for Europe reverberated throughout the Continent on Monday, with Britain suggesting that it might cancel its own popular vote on the document and the naysayers in the Netherlands gaining even more confidence that a no vote will prevail in a referendum there on Wednesday...

[Drummond]

I could be wrong, but when it comes to 'popular votes' EU doesn't fare to well, no?



They certainly tend not to, it's true. But the EU has an answer for that.

Ireland voted 'no' in their membership Referendum .. so the EU just made them vote a SECOND TIME. I'm sure that, had they voted 'no' then, the EU would've required a third vote .. and a fourth .. until Ireland got it 'right' ... !!!

[logroller]

Perhaps he had better not take too much heart .
What a majority wants does not always bear fruit, for recent evidence look at obamacare here. The powers that be often have ways to negate the wishes of the majority even if it be by hook and crook. Obama had a majority of people wanting him gone but presto- like magic - we have him again.
Do not misunderstand , I hope you are correct and that bears fruit but I have grave doubts that it will. -Tyr
you are mistaken. Polls, both before and by popular vote showed the majority supporting Obama. hook and crook-- have you appreciative data to indicate vote fraud...or just more falsities'
Btw, the UK leaves the EU, Ireland and Scotland would too, right?

[fj1200]

Btw, the UK leaves the EU, Ireland and Scotland would too, right?

Republic of Ireland no, Scotland (part of the UK) yes.

[Drummond]

Republic of Ireland no, Scotland (part of the UK) yes.

Correct.

This might be of interest, though. How many people on your side of the Pond know that a Referendum on Scotland separating from the UK is drawing near ?

See ..

http://www.scotsman.com/news/scottish-independence-westminster-cites-evidence-that-eu-would-bar-scotland-1-2650229


AN INDEPENDENT Scotland would have to negotiate its way back into the EU, the coalition government said yesterday.

In the clearest statement yet from the UK government on the post-independence position in Europe, Foreign Office minister Hugo Swire said the “weight of international legal precedent” held that Scotland would have to reapply for membership.

Meanwhile, Labour MP Ann McKechin suggested an independent Scotland could be hit with import tariffs when trading with the rest of the UK if it is not granted automatic admission to the European Union.

Speaking during a Westminster Hall debate on Scotland in Europe, Mr Swire said: “England, Northern Ireland and Wales would continue the international legal personality of the UK; Scotland, having decided to leave the UK, would start afresh.

“The overwhelming weight of international legal precedent underscores this point.

“The most likely scenario by far is that an independent Scotland would have to apply to join the EU as a new state, involving negotiation with the rest of the UK and other member states, the outcome of which cannot be predicted.”

He added that this would mean Scotland would have to commit to joining the euro and Schengen border agreement, and could lose the UK rebate as well as having to negotiate new agreements on fishing and agricultural policies.

If Scotland has to join the Schengen agreement, this would lead to border posts with the rest of the UK.

Glasgow MP Ms McKechin warned that if Scotland had to negotiate its way back into the EU, it would also have to do the same for the World Trade Organisation. She said being outside the EU would mean Scotland could find itself subject to import tariffs in relation to the rest of the UK, which represents two-thirds of its “exports”.

She told MPs: “If Scotland were not part of the EU in a post-separation scenario, obviously its trading relationship with the rest of the UK would be in question – what criteria, tariffs and so on, would be in force.”

Ms McKechin added: “Scotland’s economy relies heavily on having a stable export market and many thousands of jobs depend on foreign trade, but the manner in which the Scottish Government have twisted and turned at every corner to avoid a clear answer as to what legal advice they had on such questions can only corrode public trust.”

She also pointed out that it took Croatia a decade to enter the EU because of an objection from Slovenia.

Ms McKechin said: “Given the gridlock of other membership requests, and that other EU states are much less relaxed about national referendums for secession, there is every risk that the application and negotiations could drag on, with consequent risks and uncertainty to our economy and particularly our financial services.”

She insisted Scottish voters needed to know what the position would be before making their decision in 2014 and accused the Scottish Government of trying to avoid the question.

However, the SNP accused Ms McKechin of “scaremongering”. Nationalist Angus MP Mike Weir asked if she was sure the rest of the UK would still be part of the EU, given the current pressure on the coalition government for an in/out referendum.

CBI Scotland director Iain McMillan said the issue was a “concern”. He said: “This is one of the issues that adds to the great uncertainty around independence. It causes uncertainty for businesses and consumers.”

Recently the Scottish Government admitted it had not sought legal advice on the issue of Scotland’s place in Europe after a possible vote in favour of independence.

But the likelihood of Scotland having an easy path was reduced last month when Spanish foreign minister Jose Manuel Garcia-Margallo told his parliament in Madrid that Scotland “would have to join the queue”.

Ms McKechin added that “as a small country among 28”, Scotland “would be in a very weak position” to negotiate a good 
settlement”.

But the SNP yesterday maintained that as Scotland was 
already a member of the EU, it would be allowed to remain so post-independence.

Perth and North Perthshire SNP MP Pete Wishart said the pro-Union MPs had adopted a “scaremongering culture”.

He said: “Of course, the plat du jour this week is scaremongering on Europe. Barely a day goes past without another instalment in the scaremongering stories.

“Their message to the Scottish people when it comes to Europe is, ‘You cannae dae this, we’re no gonna let you do that and don’t even think about this.’”

He said that the main threat to Scotland remaining in the EU came from the UK’s possible departure.

He said: “There is a threat to Scotland’s European membership. It comes from the Union; it comes from the Westminster Tories.They are even prepared to defeat their government to ensure that they get this country out of the European Union.”

The Scottish National Party, you see, want Scotland to be independent of the UK. However, they are also pro-Europe. So the consequences to them of the UK leaving Europe must worry them considerably, IF they consider they've previously misunderstood their position.

In a scenario where Scotland was fully independent, but forced from the EU because of the UK's own action, they'd have difficulty in rejoining it. And they'd undoubtedly want to ...

[fj1200]

Correct.

This might be of interest, though. How many people on your side of the Pond know that a Referendum on Scotland separating from the UK is drawing near ?

See ..

http://www.scotsman.com/news/scottish-independence-westminster-cites-evidence-that-eu-would-bar-scotland-1-2650229



The Scottish National Party, you see, want Scotland to be independent of the UK. However, they are also pro-Europe. So the consequences to them of the UK leaving Europe must worry them considerably, IF they consider they've previously misunderstood their position.

In a scenario where Scotland was fully independent, but forced from the EU because of the UK's own action, they'd have difficulty in rejoining it. And they'd undoubtedly want to ...

I'd heard something about Scottish independence but hadn't thought too much of it. Those are some crazy issues to have to deal with if it happens. Kind of like talk about secession, it's all fun and games until you have to work out the details.