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Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
12-01-2012, 12:23 PM
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/01/15578733-egyptians-fear-decades-of-muslim-brotherhood-rule-warn-morsi-is-no-friend-to-us?lite&ocid=msnhp&pos=2

Right from the source, Egyptians , putting out a truth that obama knows already and welcomes. That Morsi is no ally, no friend to USA..--Tyr
By Richard Engel, NBC News Chief Foreign Correspondent
News Analysis
TAHRIR SQUARE, CAIRO -- This was the place where the revolution began: the roundish square where Egyptians celebrated Mubarak's fall.
This is where they are shouting on bullhorns again, outraged because they say the Muslim Brotherhood has stolen the revolution and is railroading though a constitution that could lock in Muslim Brotherhood rule for 50 years, bringing more Islamic law. They cry -- not against Islam -- but that an extremist interpretation is being forced down their throats by a president who critics say is acting every part the tyrant.
This is also a warning, they claim, of what may happen across the Middle East. The era of the Muslim Brotherhood appears to have arrived. President Obama has hailed the Brotherhood's President Mohammed Morsi as a pragmatist who helped end the Gaza crisis. Egyptians here think the Brotherhood has conned Washington, just like it conned them.

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It didnt con obama , he knows and welcomes it !! He gives billions to these MURDERING BASTARDS..-TYR

aboutime
12-01-2012, 02:15 PM
ONLY OBAMA would trust Morsi, and HIS (Obama's) Brothers in the Brotherhood.

That was just one phase of selling America, and Israel...DOWN THE RIVER.

Obama thinks he's King. Messiah, and we all know, he's nothing but a huge HOLY TURD of CRAP!

fj1200
12-02-2012, 07:37 AM
It didnt con obama , he knows and welcomes it !! He gives billions to these MURDERING BASTARDS..-TYR

Link?

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
12-02-2012, 11:01 AM
Link?

Sure thing.. Who knows what other favors bamboy has done for his muslim brothers!??


http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/14/13866898-how-much-are-taxpayers-spending-on-egypt-and-libya?lite

How much are taxpayers spending on Egypt and Libya?</HEADER>By Tom Curry, NBC News national affairs writer
President Barack Obama is proposing that American taxpayers spend about $1.55 billion on aid to Egypt and another $1.5 million – not billion - on aid to Libya in the fiscal year that starts on Oct. 1, which would be the same amount allocated for Egypt in the current fiscal year, and a decline of about $1 million in Libyan aid.

"which would be the same amount allocated for Egypt in in the current fiscal year", thats 1.55 + 1.55 = 3.1 billion which indicate billions= plural.

jimnyc
12-02-2012, 11:44 AM
Link?

Every year, based on the Israel/Egypt peace treaty. But it should have stopped the minute the Brotherhood got into office and started making threats. Only God knows what "our" money is being used to fund at this point.

Larrymc
12-02-2012, 11:56 AM
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/01/15578733-egyptians-fear-decades-of-muslim-brotherhood-rule-warn-morsi-is-no-friend-to-us?lite&ocid=msnhp&pos=2

Right from the source, Egyptians , putting out a truth that obama knows already and welcomes. That Morsi is no ally, no friend to USA..--Tyr
By Richard Engel, NBC News Chief Foreign Correspondent
News Analysis
TAHRIR SQUARE, CAIRO -- This was the place where the revolution began: the roundish square where Egyptians celebrated Mubarak's fall.
This is where they are shouting on bullhorns again, outraged because they say the Muslim Brotherhood has stolen the revolution and is railroading though a constitution that could lock in Muslim Brotherhood rule for 50 years, bringing more Islamic law. They cry -- not against Islam -- but that an extremist interpretation is being forced down their throats by a president who critics say is acting every part the tyrant.
This is also a warning, they claim, of what may happen across the Middle East. The era of the Muslim Brotherhood appears to have arrived. President Obama has hailed the Brotherhood's President Mohammed Morsi as a pragmatist who helped end the Gaza crisis. Egyptians here think the Brotherhood has conned Washington, just like it conned them.

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It didnt con obama , he knows and welcomes it !! He gives billions to these MURDERING BASTARDS..-TYRNote to Liberals who say we should stay out of the middle east business, will we did in Egypt, Now look at what we will have to deal with.

jimnyc
12-02-2012, 12:02 PM
Something like 70% of Egyptians don't want aid from the USA. But the MB does, and as soon as they got their foot into office, they announced that any cut in aid from the USA could lead to an end in peace. I understand this is part of the treaty, but this is how the radicals work, instead of diplomacy, they immediately threaten violence if they don't get what they want.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
12-02-2012, 12:28 PM
Something like 70% of Egyptians don't want aid from the USA. But the MB does, and as soon as they got their foot into office, they announced that any cut in aid from the USA could lead to an end in peace. I understand this is part of the treaty, but this is how the radicals work, instead of diplomacy, they immediately threaten violence if they don't get what they want.



http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/01/25/10235860-obama-wObama wants to boost aid to Egypt quickly


By msnbc.com staff and news services
DAVOS, Switzerland -- President Barack Obama plans to accelerate the pace of American aid to Egypt by redirecting non-urgent aid slated for other countries, a top U.S. diplomat said Wednesday.
Speaking on the sidelines of the annual World Economic Forum, Undersecretary of State Robert Hormats said Washington wants to provide more immediate benefits to the most populous Arab nation, which earlier this month conducted its first democratic elections in decades.
Besides redirecting some foreign aid, funding in the pipeline for long-term programs in Egypt would be shifted to quick-impact projects, Hormats said.
(http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/01/25/10235860-obama-wants-to-boost-aid-to-egypt-quickly?lite)

Congress approved $1.3 billion in military aid to Egypt for the current fiscal year, but with conditions attached. It also approved $250 million in economic aid, as well as an "enterprise fund" of up to $60 million.


DEMOCRATIC MY ASS. IT WAS A MUSLIM TAKEOVER FROM THE START AND INTENDED TO CREATE A ISLAMIC THEOCRACY. NOW WE SEE THAT HAPPENING. YOU JUST CAN NOT WARN IGNORANT AND DELUDED FOOLS. OBAMA IS ALL FOR THIS AND KNEW THAT IT WAS THE PLAN, TIS WHY HE DIDNT HELP OUR ALLY THAT HAD KEPT THE PEACE WITH ISREAL FOR DECADES!--TYR

aboutime
12-02-2012, 12:49 PM
Everyone should recognize how Obama is just playing into the Welcome hands of the Muslim Brotherhood.

He has bowed down to them, and accepted their EXTORTION, or BLACKMAIL threats where they CRY that accepting more US AID, DOLLARS is not what they want. While...at the very same time. They are telling Obama. They BETTER GET MORE US AID, or they will go to war.

Top all of this off with the Democrat, Obama cries that Obama is somehow the Victim here?

I say SCREW 'EM ALL! Congress, across the board should grow some GONADS and, since they have the power of the Purse.

STOP, CEASE, END....All foreign Aid to ALL OF THE MIDDLE-EASTERN nations who are Admitted Enemies of the U.S.A.

Easy to say? Sure is. So are those endless THREATS to Americans..."WE WILL KILL YOU!"

Drummond
12-02-2012, 01:32 PM
Everyone should recognize how Obama is just playing into the Welcome hands of the Muslim Brotherhood.

He has bowed down to them, and accepted their EXTORTION, or BLACKMAIL threats where they CRY that accepting more US AID, DOLLARS is not what they want. While...at the very same time. They are telling Obama. They BETTER GET MORE US AID, or they will go to war.

Top all of this off with the Democrat, Obama cries that Obama is somehow the Victim here?

I say SCREW 'EM ALL! Congress, across the board should grow some GONADS and, since they have the power of the Purse.

STOP, CEASE, END....All foreign Aid to ALL OF THE MIDDLE-EASTERN nations who are Admitted Enemies of the U.S.A.

Easy to say? Sure is. So are those endless THREATS to Americans..."WE WILL KILL YOU!"

There should never have been any intention to send any funds to Egypt in the first place, surely .. or, at minimum, it should have been withheld the moment the Muslim Brotherhood got their foot in the door of power there.

And so MUCH money, too. I find it very hard to accept that it's ultimately going to the one country. To the Muslim Brotherhood as a whole .. perhaps ?

fj1200
12-02-2012, 04:27 PM
Sure thing.. Who knows what other favors bamboy has done for his muslim brothers!??


http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/14/13866898-how-much-are-taxpayers-spending-on-egypt-and-libya?lite

How much are taxpayers spending on Egypt and Libya?

By Tom Curry, NBC News national affairs writer
President Barack Obama is proposing that American taxpayers spend about $1.55 billion on aid to Egypt and another $1.5 million – not billion - on aid to Libya in the fiscal year that starts on Oct. 1, which would be the same amount allocated for Egypt in the current fiscal year, and a decline of about $1 million in Libyan aid.

"which would be the same amount allocated for Egypt in in the current fiscal year", thats 1.55 + 1.55 = 3.1 billion which indicate billions= plural.

So you're saying that BO has the ability to fork over money completely on his own and is not driven by treaty requirements and/or was approved by Republicans in the House? Just because the government sends it doesn't mean BO is sending it.


Every year, based on the Israel/Egypt peace treaty. But it should have stopped the minute the Brotherhood got into office and started making threats. Only God knows what "our" money is being used to fund at this point.

Then we need to separate treaty money from other funds and what BO, solely, has discretion over.

jafar00
12-02-2012, 04:39 PM
Every year, based on the Israel/Egypt peace treaty. But it should have stopped the minute the Brotherhood got into office and started making threats. Only God knows what "our" money is being used to fund at this point.

The money is ultimately what held the peace treaty with Israel together even through the Mubarak regime. Are you sure you want to stop paying it and in the process, break the treaty?

Kathianne
12-02-2012, 04:41 PM
The money is ultimately what held the peace treaty with Israel together even through the Mubarak regime. Are you sure you want to stop paying it and in the process, break the treaty?

Yes. It's a drain and not working. Hell, give it to Israel.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
12-02-2012, 05:01 PM
Yes. It's a drain and not working. Hell, give it to Israel.

That makes far too much sense, they would never do that. Obama is on the side of Israel's enemies.-Tyr

fj1200
12-02-2012, 05:12 PM
That makes far too much sense, they would never do that. Obama is on the side of Israel's enemies.-Tyr

You only need a whisker's worth of evidence to keep that assertion going don't you?

Kathianne
12-02-2012, 05:14 PM
You only need a whisker's worth of evidence to keep that assertion going don't you?

I don't like to be with any extreme position, but there IS more than a 'whisker's worth of evidence' here...

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
12-02-2012, 05:27 PM
You only need a whisker's worth of evidence to keep that assertion going don't you?

haha, as if there is not far more evidence than that already. Lets just keep this post marked for future reference, shall we. Obama will before his second term is up reveal his absolute hatred for Israel and it will be by doing far more than snubbing their Prime Minister! I will return to this post when the scum finally comes all the way out with his hatred for Israel. You act as if the boy learned nothing in his childhood over there with the muslims!
Whats that most beautiful sound he ever heard!!???-:laugh2:--Tyr

jimnyc
12-02-2012, 05:55 PM
The money is ultimately what held the peace treaty with Israel together even through the Mubarak regime. Are you sure you want to stop paying it and in the process, break the treaty?

Absolutely. That treaty was made with a country that wanted peace. Now the money was given to the brotherhood, a group who has threatened us already and has a history and connection to terror groups. Not a single penny should go to help that group. The money was meant as AID for Egyptians, and since that isn't happening, they should withdraw and let Israel do what they have to do if Egypt and Palestine choose war instead of peace. The USA will save a few billion and Egypt and Palestine will see another ass kicking.

Larrymc
12-02-2012, 06:49 PM
So you're saying that BO has the ability to fork over money completely on his own and is not driven by treaty requirements and/or was approved by Republicans in the House? Just because the government sends it doesn't mean BO is sending it.



Then we need to separate treaty money from other funds and what BO, solely, has discretion over.though there may be funds allocated, he should be able to stop it.

Drummond
12-02-2012, 09:17 PM
The money is ultimately what held the peace treaty with Israel together even through the Mubarak regime. Are you sure you want to stop paying it and in the process, break the treaty?

... Sorry ... am I reading this correctly, Jafar ?

It's your contention, is it, that all these funds are a form of bribe to keep Egypt on the side of peacemaking ?

If they have to be bribed, Jafar, and also with such a sizeable bribe at that, what does that say for their trustworthiness ??

I think that the sooner this money tree is chopped down, the better.

fj1200
12-02-2012, 10:07 PM
I don't like to be with any extreme position, but there IS more than a 'whisker's worth of evidence' here...

I'm referring specifically to the $1.5 bill.


haha, as if there is not far more evidence than that already. Lets just keep this post marked for future reference, shall we. Obama will before his second term is up reveal his absolute hatred for Israel and it will be by doing far more than snubbing their Prime Minister! I will return to this post when the scum finally comes all the way out with his hatred for Israel. You act as if the boy learned nothing in his childhood over there with the muslims!
Whats that most beautiful sound he ever heard!!???-:laugh2:--Tyr

So you have evidence regarding the $1.5 bill he sent over there of his own accord?


though there may be funds allocated, he should be able to stop it.

Based on Egypt violating the treaty that we feel we can just opt out of?

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
12-02-2012, 10:47 PM
I'm referring specifically to the $1.5 bill.



So you have evidence regarding the $1.5 bill he sent over there of his own accord?



Based on Egypt violating the treaty that we feel we can just opt out of?

What I have is obama's actions and willingness to go against Israel and his sudden opposition against the strong new sanctions against Iran point to his duplicity. He has the ability and authority to not pay, or at the very least to delay payment to force a change in Egypt's decision, dont give me that crap that he doesnt. Even were it unconstitutional he would do it if he desired. What you refuse to accept is his true nature and his policies that are deliberately designed to weaken our nation. When the new MB Egyptian government revealed its change in plans regarding the peace treaty with Israel obama made no appeal, no public condemnation and no threat to stop the money!! Cut the money, why pay to help Egypt arm and fight Israel??
These are valid considerations and very valid questions concerning obama's true intent and true agenda.

Besides, whats more important the billions in payment or which side obama is truly on!!???-Tyr

fj1200
12-02-2012, 11:02 PM
What I have is obama's actions and willingness to go against Israel and his sudden opposition against the strong new sanctions against Iran point to his duplicity. He has the ability and authority to not pay, or at the very least to delay payment to force a change in Egypt's decision, dont give me that crap that he doesnt. Even were it unconstitutional he would do it if he desired. What you refuse to accept is his true nature and his policies that are deliberately designed to weaken our nation. When the new MB Egyptian government revealed its change in plans regarding the peace treaty with Israel obama made no appeal, no public condemnation and no threat to stop the money!! Cut the money, why pay to help Egypt arm and fight Israel??
These are valid considerations and very valid questions concerning obama's true intent and true agenda.

Besides, whats more important the billions in payment or which side obama is truly on!!???-Tyr

I accept that you have made up your mind and any evidence which supports your preconceptions is evidence. So what we have is the billions which is sent by treaty or with approval of the House pending your evidence to the contrary and your presumptions about BO... which to choose???

I accept that he's completely out of his element and has no clear ideology that could be turned into a successful foreign policy and is easily run around by others or that if a problem can't be solved with a speech then he's done. He is the perfect example of my new thought that we need to do away with the unitary executive and create an elected foreign minister position.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
12-02-2012, 11:21 PM
I accept that you have made up your mind and any evidence which supports your preconceptions is evidence. So what we have is the billions which is sent by treaty or with approval of the House pending your evidence to the contrary and your presumptions about BO... which to choose???

I accept that he's completely out of his element and has no clear ideology that could be turned into a successful foreign policy and is easily run around by others or that if a problem can't be solved with a speech then he's done. He is the perfect example of my new thought that we need to do away with the unitary executive and create an elected foreign minister position.

ok, I see. The fact that obama's actions prove he is not on Israel's side or even on our side is not important and can be excused by his inept nature and fickleness of being lead by others. You seem to excuse a lot the bastard does! I am not that gullible and certainly not forgiving of his obvious duplicity. Go ahead, keep your eyes closed, that way the sand does not get in them .--Tyr

fj1200
12-02-2012, 11:29 PM
ok, I see. The fact that obama's actions prove he is not on Israel's side or even on our side is not important and can be excused by his inept nature and fickleness of being lead by others. You seem to excuse a lot the bastard does! I am not that gullible and certainly not forgiving of his obvious duplicity. Go ahead, keep your eyes closed, that way the sand does not get in them .--Tyr

No, no, of course not. See my above post and unanswered requests for evidence.

jafar00
12-02-2012, 11:36 PM
haha, as if there is not far more evidence than that already. Lets just keep this post marked for future reference, shall we. Obama will before his second term is up reveal his absolute hatred for Israel and it will be by doing far more than snubbing their Prime Minister! I will return to this post when the scum finally comes all the way out with his hatred for Israel. You act as if the boy learned nothing in his childhood over there with the muslims!
Whats that most beautiful sound he ever heard!!???-:laugh2:--Tyr

For someone who hates Israel, he sure got a lot of Jewish votes in the last election. :p


... Sorry ... am I reading this correctly, Jafar ?

It's your contention, is it, that all these funds are a form of bribe to keep Egypt on the side of peacemaking ?

If they have to be bribed, Jafar, and also with such a sizeable bribe at that, what does that say for their trustworthiness ??

I think that the sooner this money tree is chopped down, the better.

Yes it was a bribe and it seems a lot of it went straight into Hosni Mubarak's pockets.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
12-03-2012, 09:19 AM
No, no, of course not. See my above post and unanswered requests for evidence.

You do not want evidence rather you want a solid case of guilt presented which a court of law would require. Sorry, but thats a very rare occurence when simply debating politics. If you can not see obama's actions for what they are I cant help ya. If you were following his actions closely you'd see what many of us see but apparently you are not or else you have your mind made up to excuse his actions as mere mistakes by a bumbling fool. I see a definite pattern to these many mistakes and its has to be a plan put ito action instead of mere happenstance. You demand concrete proof as if I have to leave my life and go be a pliceman to satisfy your high demands. And dont give me that crap about my not presenting evidence that satisfies your high standard. We've been through this too many times before and you just ignore my evidence and links when presented. You do thats so easily by always claiming his proven disasterious actions are mere mistakes. Which to anybody thats truly looking at this closely is laughable. I will not jump thru the many hoops that you demand just to have you do the usual reply when presented with more evidence that its all just him making mere mistakes.
Have it your way, he is the biggest fool and worst bumbler ever to sit in the Whitehouse ! Thats you default position and Im just tired of it.. -Tyr

fj1200
12-03-2012, 09:27 AM
You do not want evidence rather you want a solid case of guilt presented which a court of law would require. Sorry, but thats a very rare occurence when simply debating politics. If you can not see obama's actions for what they are I cant help ya. If you were following his actions closely you'd see what many of us see but apparently you are not or else you have your mind made up to excuse his actions as mere mistakes by a bumbling fool. I see a definite pattern to these many mistakes and its has to be a plan put ito action instead of mere happenstance. You demand concrete proof as if I have to leave my life and go be a pliceman to satisfy your high demands. And dont give me that crap about my not presenting evidence that satisfies your high standard. We've been through this too many times before and you just ignore my evidence and links when presented. You do thats so easily by always claiming his proven disasterious actions are mere mistakes. Which to anybody thats truly looking at this closely is laughable. I will not jump thru the many hoops that you demand just to have you do the usual reply when presented with more evidence that its all just him making mere mistakes.
Have it your way, he is the biggest fool and worst bumbler ever to sit in the Whitehouse ! Thats you default position and Im just tired of it.. -Tyr

Oh brother, the simple request for evidence here was your claim he's sending "billions." Your implication is that it wouldn't have been sent but for BO sitting in the Oval Office; that shouldn't be so hard to prove. Your pattern is that anything that he does is proof of your accusations even those that have been proven demonstrably false; 923 EOs anyone?

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
12-03-2012, 09:37 AM
Oh brother, the simple request for evidence here was your claim he's sending "billions." Your implication is that it wouldn't have been sent but for BO sitting in the Oval Office; that shouldn't be so hard to prove. Your pattern is that anything that he does is proof of your accusations even those that have been proven demonstrably false; 923 EOs anyone?

Bullshat. Your CLAIM IS HIS PROVEN ACTIONS WHEN NEGATIVE ARE SIMPLE MISTAKES! Have at it then , he makes horrible mistakes one after another but is simply a wonderful and loving guy!-Tyr

fj1200
12-03-2012, 09:45 AM
Bullshat. Your CLAIM IS HIS PROVEN ACTIONS WHEN NEGATIVE ARE SIMPLE MISTAKES! Have at it then , he makes horrible mistakes one after another but is simply a wonderful and loving guy!-Tyr

A. I don't know the guy, and
B. Simple mistakes are random, incompetence is a trend.

Larrymc
12-03-2012, 09:48 AM
Bullshat. Your CLAIM IS HIS PROVEN ACTIONS WHEN NEGATIVE ARE SIMPLE MISTAKES! Have at it then , he makes horrible mistakes one after another but is simply a wonderful and loving guy!-TyrTyr you forget that Obama fans or like love struck little Girls, they just follow blindly

fj1200
12-03-2012, 09:51 AM
Tyr you forget that Obama fans or like love struck little Girls, they just follow blindly

Care to point some out here?

Larrymc
12-03-2012, 10:19 AM
Care to point some out here?i could carry on, but what good could it possibly do, when you choose to be one of those blind followers

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
12-03-2012, 11:16 AM
i could carry on, but what good could it possibly do, when you choose to be one of those blind followers

Good to see that you caught on rather quickly. Its not that he is bright rather its that he ignores so damn much that is presented to him. And when he finally concedes any of your points he excuses obama by declaring it just a simple mistake . As if nothing the bastard does is deliberate! I find that appalling and often insulting as well but hey insults like that are par for the course when it comes to those that seek to cleverly give bamboy a pass IMHO.-Tyr

Larrymc
12-03-2012, 12:01 PM
Good to see that you caught on rather quickly. Its not that he is bright rather its that he ignores so damn much that is presented to him. And when he finally concedes any of your points he excuses obama by declaring it just a simple mistake . As if nothing the bastard does is deliberate! I find that appalling and often insulting as well but hey insults like that are par for the course when it comes to those that seek to cleverly give bamboy a pass IMHO.-Tyrwhat i call educated idiots, they have a lot of schooling, but very little when it comes to common sense

jimnyc
12-03-2012, 12:31 PM
So you have evidence regarding the $1.5 bill he sent over there of his own accord?

Not sure if this is what you guys are debating over, but Obama did in fact bypass Congress...


Obama Bypasses Congress, Gives $1.5 Billion to Muslim BrotherhoodDuring a trip through Colorado in December of last year, President Obama spoke of his intention to implement his economic policies with or without the approval of Congress. Said Obama, “And where Congress is not willing to act, we’re going to go ahead and do it ourselves.” It now appears that such a mindset applies not only to economic matters but to the distribution of foreign aid as well--in particular, foreign military aid for the Muslim Brotherhood, who now hold the reigns in Egypt.

Congress has restricted and, in fact, halted military aid to Egypt until and “unless the State Department certifies that Egypt is making progress on basic freedoms and human rights.” After all, Christians and other practitioners of non-Islamic religions have had a tough go of it there. And of course, many Egyptian officials harbor such hatred toward the U.S. that one of the candidates for the Egyptian presidency has openly referred to America as the “infidel country” in media interviews.

Nevertheless, the news breaking now is that Secretary of State Hillary Clinton will soon announce that President Obama will “resume funding for Egypt’s military, despite Congressional restrictions and objections from human rights and democracy advocates.”

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2012/03/21/obama-bypasses-congress-gives-1-5-billion-to-muslim-brotherhood

Larrymc
12-03-2012, 12:41 PM
Not sure if this is what you guys are debating over, but Obama did in fact bypass Congress...



http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2012/03/21/obama-bypasses-congress-gives-1-5-billion-to-muslim-brotherhoodthank you for this info, though i suspected as much, i had not researched it, like i have said before Obama expected to be Dictator and Chief but to his surprise we don't do things that way here. "YET"

jimnyc
12-03-2012, 01:50 PM
I just don't understand the point of congress at times. If they approve something, it goes forward. If they shoot it down, it does not. What's the point of having them if one person can unilaterally make decisions with such large amounts of OUR money? He also bypassed congress to send aid to the Palestinians this year. I believe he bypassed congress to cut military spending - and that was after he bypassed congress in order to send the military to Libya.

fj1200
12-03-2012, 02:07 PM
i could carry on, but what good could it possibly do, when you choose to be one of those blind followers

:laugh: Yeah, none of your other pals here could point out my support of BO or my liberal positions either. :laugh:

jimnyc
12-03-2012, 02:12 PM
:laugh: Yeah, none of your other pals here could point out my support of BO or my liberal positions either. :laugh:

You and Logroller, didn't you guys run for the high office on the motto of "Queer marriage and new taxes for all"?? Filthy liberal heathens!!

fj1200
12-03-2012, 02:30 PM
Not sure if this is what you guys are debating over, but Obama did in fact bypass Congress...

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2012/03/21/obama-bypasses-congress-gives-1-5-billion-to-muslim-brotherhood

Thank you, that would be evidence. Although the title is a bit misleading as it is military aid as it is specifically military aid that has been Congressionally authorized.

Egypt’s aid from U.S. in peril amid crackdown on pro-democracy groups (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/egypts-aid-from-us-in-peril-amid-crackdown-on-pro-democracy-groups/2012/02/03/gIQAp5GQqQ_story.html)
Under new conditions imposed by Congress, the Obama administration must certify that Egypt is taking specific steps toward democracy before disbursing $1.3 billion in military aid. But a senior Obama administration official, who was not authorized to speak by name, said there is currently no way to certify that all conditions are being met.

And of course it's not as cut and dry as we like to think:

F.A.Q. on U.S. Aid to Egypt: Where Does the Money Go—And Who Decides How It’s Spent? (http://www.propublica.org/blog/item/f.a.q.-on-u.s.-aid-to-egypt-where-does-the-money-go-who-decides-how-spent)
Let's start with the military aid. How much is it, and what does it buy?Military aid — which comes through a funding stream known as Foreign Military Financing — has held steady at about $1.3 billion since 1987. American officials have long argued that the money promotes strong ties between the American and Egyptian militaries, which gives the U.S. all kinds of benefits. U.S. Navy warships, for instance, get "expedited processing" when they pass through the Suez Canal.
Here's a 2009 U.S. embassy cable released by WikiLeaks that makes essentially the same point (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/199866):

President Mubarak and military leaders view our military assistance program as the cornerstone of our mil-mil relationship and consider the USD 1.3 billion in annual FMF as "untouchable compensation" for making and maintaining peace with Israel. The tangible benefits to our mil-mil relationship are clear: Egypt remains at peace with Israel, and the U.S. military enjoys priority access to the Suez Canal and Egyptian airspace.
The military funding also enables Egypt to purchase U.S.-manufactured military goods and services. But a 2006 report from the Government Accountability Office (http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-06-437) (PDF) criticized both the State Department and the Defense Department for failing to measure how the funding actually contributes to U.S. goals.
...
So has American aid to Egypt been cut off?
No. Congress threatened to block the aid when Egypt began a crackdown on a number of American pro-democracy groups this winter. A senior Obama administration official said that Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton had no way to certify (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/egypts-aid-from-us-in-peril-amid-crackdown-on-pro-democracy-groups/2012/02/03/gIQAp5GQqQ_story.html) the bill's conditions were being met.
But in March Clinton waived the certification requirement (yes, she can do that) and approved the aid, despite concerns remaining about Egypt's human rights record. The reason? "A delay or cut in $1.3 billion in military aid to Egypt risked breaking existing contracts with American arms manufacturers that could have shut down production lines in the middle of President Obama's re-election campaign," the New York Times reported (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/24/world/middleeast/once-imperiled-united-states-aid-to-egypt-is-restored.html). Breaking the contracts could have left the Pentagon on the hook for $2 billion.

What dolt in Congress decided that the SoS could just waive the certification requirement if it was so important? Not surprisingly there are other considerations.


I just don't understand the point of congress at times. If they approve something, it goes forward. If they shoot it down, it does not. What's the point of having them if one person can unilaterally make decisions with such large amounts of OUR money? He also bypassed congress to send aid to the Palestinians this year. I believe he bypassed congress to cut military spending - and that was after he bypassed congress in order to send the military to Libya.

fj1200
12-03-2012, 02:33 PM
You and Logroller, didn't you guys run for the high office on the motto of "Queer marriage and new taxes for all"?? Filthy liberal heathens!!

Dammit! I thought I paid you to delete all that, especially my "free smokes for votes" campaign slogan. :slap:

fj1200
12-03-2012, 02:39 PM
And then there's this:

The Real Reason the U.S. Should Consider Cutting Military Aid to Egypt (http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/07/the-real-reason-the-us-should-consider-cutting-military-aid-to-egypt/259302/)
It's not just about deterring the country's generals from grabbing power -- it's about demonstrating that the U.S. is making democracy a top priority in the Middle East.

I think that they would have been loathe to admit that while Bush was POTUS.

Larrymc
12-03-2012, 03:09 PM
I just don't understand the point of congress at times. If they approve something, it goes forward. If they shoot it down, it does not. What's the point of having them if one person can unilaterally make decisions with such large amounts of OUR money? He also bypassed congress to send aid to the Palestinians this year. I believe he bypassed congress to cut military spending - and that was after he bypassed congress in order to send the military to Libya.its about respect for the positron, the measures Obama uses are there for dire circumstances, not to just disrespect the process, a real President see it for what it is, the various branches represent the people and you don't bypass them lightly, However We Have Obama

jimnyc
12-03-2012, 03:55 PM
Thank you, that would be evidence. Although the title is a bit misleading as it is military aid as it is specifically military aid that has been Congressionally authorized.

Egypt’s aid from U.S. in peril amid crackdown on pro-democracy groups (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/egypts-aid-from-us-in-peril-amid-crackdown-on-pro-democracy-groups/2012/02/03/gIQAp5GQqQ_story.html)



And of course it's not as cut and dry as we like to think:

F.A.Q. on U.S. Aid to Egypt: Where Does the Money Go—And Who Decides How It’s Spent? (http://www.propublica.org/blog/item/f.a.q.-on-u.s.-aid-to-egypt-where-does-the-money-go-who-decides-how-spent)



What dolt in Congress decided that the SoS could just waive the certification requirement if it was so important? Not surprisingly there are other considerations.

My fear is about the MB though. When Muburak was in charge, he apparently kept a lot of aid for himself to live a lavish lifestyle. If he can do it, I'm wondering what steps were put in place to prevent future leaders from doing the same. And if nothing has been done, then it's quite conceivable to think that the MB can do similar, or worse.

Larrymc
12-03-2012, 04:02 PM
:laugh: Yeah, none of your other pals here could point out my support of BO or my liberal positions either. :laugh:i find it comical my self how you post all over this site and some how miss all the negative Post and Positions on Obama, just keep asking

Drummond
12-03-2012, 07:29 PM
Yes it was a bribe and it seems a lot of it went straight into Hosni Mubarak's pockets.

Whatever proportion of supplied funds went to Mubarak, surely isn't the real point, whether true or not. The REAL point is that even YOU admit that Egypt, under Morsi, is ruled by an Administration which has to be bribed in order to behave properly.

The very fact of bribery proves that Morsi cannot be trusted. Which in turn proves the premise of this thread.

Morsi, as representative of the Muslim Brotherhood, shows us the disreputability of that organisation. YOU HAVE MADE THAT CASE YOURSELF, JAFAR. Presumably if or when the funds run dry, they'll show us all their true colours.

QED.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
12-03-2012, 07:54 PM
Whatever proportion of supplied funds went to Mubarak, surely isn't the real point, whether true or not. The REAL point is that even YOU admit that Egypt, under Morsi, is ruled by an Administration which has to be bribed in order to behave properly.

The very fact of bribery proves that Morsi cannot be trusted. Which in turn proves the premise of this thread.

Morsi, as representative of the Muslim Brotherhood, shows us the disreputability of that organisation. YOU HAVE MADE THAT CASE YOURSELF, JAFAR. Presumably if or when the funds run dry, they'll show us all their true colours.

QED.

I bet Jafar reads that and says --ooopppss!--;)--Tyr

aboutime
12-03-2012, 07:59 PM
I bet Jafar reads that and says --ooopppss!--;)--Tyr


I wonder how jafar will come up with an excuse when Morsi admits to being the Tyrant of the Muslim Brotherhood NO Egyptian Voted for this year?
Jafar hasn't got the courage to admit any --ooopppss!--

jafar00
12-03-2012, 08:37 PM
Since the treaty was heavily in favour of Israel for starters, I would be in favour of a replacement.

Drummond
12-03-2012, 08:38 PM
I bet Jafar reads that and says --ooopppss!--;)--Tyr

Of course, Jafar's intent could've been to say that America really needs to KEEP paying the bribe, if it wants Morsi to continue on as before. Perhaps he's keen to ensure that the Muslim Brotherhood keeps getting its money.

And perhaps he takes the American Administration, willing to offer those funds, for fools. Or as weak. Compliant. Or ... natural comrades (covertly speaking) ?

Drummond
12-03-2012, 08:40 PM
Since the treaty was heavily in favour of Israel for starters, I would be in favour of a replacement.

A replacement member of the Muslim Brotherhood ?

And (silly question, this ..) why would you prefer Israel to be more heavily disadvantaged ?

Is it your belief that they don't have enough to contend with already, from MUSLIM TERRORIST ATTACKS ?

jimnyc
12-03-2012, 08:45 PM
Since the treaty was heavily in favour of Israel for starters, I would be in favour of a replacement.

Why would people agree to something and then later want more? Then it should be the same attitude to the US no longer being fond of any agreement and immediately ceasing any aid whatsoever. Let those who take issue with Israel try and forcibly take land back, and Israel can defend herself. It'll be comical watching repeats.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
12-03-2012, 08:47 PM
Of course, Jafar's intent could've been to say that America really needs to KEEP paying the bribe, if it wants Morsi to continue on as before. Perhaps he's keen to ensure that the Muslim Brotherhood keeps getting its money.

And perhaps he takes the American Administration, willing to offer those funds, for fools. Or as weak. Compliant. Or ... natural comrades (covertly speaking) ?

My guess is that Jafar favors strongly his own muslim sect= Sunni I believe but against we infidels he favors any muslim sect even Shia. Now according to his religion thats the correct thing to do. I didnt say that it was fair or just but within Islam its right. Islam however has much within its tenents that is just plain wrong.. Like for example , seeking the utter destruction of ALL THE JEWS and forcing by threat of death the entire world to submit to Allah!!-Tyr

Larrymc
12-03-2012, 08:49 PM
Since the treaty was heavily in favour of Israel for starters, I would be in favour of a replacement.i would to give it to Israel, to build up there Military

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
12-03-2012, 09:02 PM
i would to give it to Israel, to build up there Military

I say we should just round it up to three billion dollars add in a couple dozen of our best attack helicopters and give it all to Israel! Congress has the purse they should do that despite obama's objections which would come out loudly and quickly too!

aboutime
12-03-2012, 10:47 PM
I say we should just round it up to three billion dollars add in a couple dozen of our best attack helicopters and give it all to Israel! Congress has the purse they should do that despite obama's objections which would come out loudly and quickly too!


Tyr. Truth is. Today's Israeli Military is nearly on an equal, technical plane with the U.S. Military. Not many people understand, or even know. The Israeli's have actually invented, designed, and built a large portion of the military weapon's systems we use, and of course...they use.

If Israel waited around for Obama to give them permission to defend themselves. They would have been destroyed long ago.

So. For those who HATE Israel, and Jews so much. Keep calling them names, making fun of them. But don't turn your back on them like Obama has done.
Eventually. His legacy won't be a bright one. Despite his Anti-American, Anti-Israeli Crossed-fingers.

avatar4321
12-04-2012, 12:23 AM
This was obvious to begin with. I dont know why some people still havent figured it out.

fj1200
12-04-2012, 01:33 PM
My fear is about the MB though. When Muburak was in charge, he apparently kept a lot of aid for himself to live a lavish lifestyle. If he can do it, I'm wondering what steps were put in place to prevent future leaders from doing the same. And if nothing has been done, then it's quite conceivable to think that the MB can do similar, or worse.

I understand that and I wonder how he could have converted US aid to his benefit if we're sending arms and equipment, not cash, via US defense firms.

fj1200
12-04-2012, 01:42 PM
i find it comical my self how you post all over this site and some how miss all the negative Post and Positions on Obama, just keep asking

Translation to the Queen's English please.

jimnyc
12-04-2012, 01:44 PM
I understand that and I wonder how he could have converted US aid to his benefit if we're sending arms and equipment, not cash, via US defense firms.

Apparently we've been sending them the military aid every year, and a couple hundred million dollars in economical aid in addition. Also, and even worse, if not interested in the well being of the citizens, they can perhaps resell arms. But a couple of hundred million can still be used to put a firmer grasp on ones control. I don't think the Brotherhood, with their history, should get anything from the US, especially if they come out with threats about the peace deal.

fj1200
12-04-2012, 01:51 PM
^True, I forgot about the economic aid.

jimnyc
12-04-2012, 01:54 PM
^True, I forgot about the economic aid.

I never knew this before, but read an article a few days back that said 70% of Egyptians don't want any money from us. I wonder if that's rooted in hatred towards the US, or if they were angry that the money we spent was not used on them the way it was meant?

fj1200
12-04-2012, 02:00 PM
I never knew this before, but read an article a few days back that said 70% of Egyptians don't want any money from us. I wonder if that's rooted in hatred towards the US, or if they were angry that the money we spent was not used on them the way it was meant?

Maybe they just know that just like any other dictatorial regime that the only ones who benefit will be those in power in government.

Larrymc
12-04-2012, 02:00 PM
I understand that and I wonder how he could have converted US aid to his benefit if we're sending arms and equipment, not cash, via US defense firms. "selling it to terrorist "

fj1200
12-04-2012, 02:01 PM
"selling it to terrorist "

That presumes we send them the good stuff and that we don't track the good stuff.

Larrymc
12-04-2012, 02:10 PM
That presumes we send them the good stuff and that we don't track the good stuff.well i would hope we don't send the good stuff, but if we did we don't give all the technology, However i think Terrorist would be happy with our hand me downs

jimnyc
12-04-2012, 02:25 PM
That presumes we send them the good stuff and that we don't track the good stuff.

Fast and Furious :) The dummies in Washington couldn't do it with small arms, and then swept under the rug and covered things up when the shit hit the fan. If these are the same ones in charge, the weaponry sent to Egypt could be anywhere!

Drummond
12-04-2012, 08:47 PM
well i would hope we don't send the good stuff, but if we did we don't give all the technology, However i think Terrorist would be happy with our hand me downs

Yes, exactly. With Israel as the one exception, sending anything to the Middle East is just madness ... you can't know who'll ultimately benefit.

Larrymc
12-04-2012, 09:18 PM
Yes, exactly. With Israel as the one exception, sending anything to the Middle East is just madness ... you can't know who'll ultimately benefit.i have to agree with that

avatar4321
12-04-2012, 10:45 PM
That presumes we send them the good stuff and that we don't track the good stuff.

After Fast and Furious do you honestly think the Obama administration tracks anything important?

fj1200
12-05-2012, 09:30 AM
After Fast and Furious do you honestly think the Obama administration tracks anything important?

Considering our military aid to Egypt is decades old covering many administrations, yes I think the military has a handle on it. And if they don't, it's a decades old problem.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
12-05-2012, 09:38 AM
Yes, exactly. With Israel as the one exception, sending anything to the Middle East is just madness ... you can't know who'll ultimately benefit.

Anything sent anywhere over there except to Israel will help our enemies. We as Americans need to wake up to that fact. Currently obama makes sure they get as many bilions as he can send because he knows the sad truth of that.-Tyr

Larrymc
12-05-2012, 09:42 AM
Considering our military aid to Egypt is decades old covering many administrations, yes I think the military has a handle on it. And if they don't, it's a decades old problem.Terrorist haven't been in control for decades, so it comes back to Obama

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
12-05-2012, 09:44 AM
Considering our military aid to Egypt is decades old covering many administrations, yes I think the military has a handle on it. And if they don't, it's a decades old problem.

The military here is not sending billions over there. Thats our government's doings and our government doesnt have a great record of perfection or even anything remotely close to it. So why do you have such great faith in it?? Additionallly there has been a great change there, new dictators complete with prayer rugs in case you missed it. So decades old actions need to be reconsidered. MB is a terrorist group so why should we give it billions?
Do you have no objections to our giving billions to a terrorist organisation?-Tyr

fj1200
12-05-2012, 10:15 AM
Terrorist haven't been in control for decades, so it comes back to Obama

Terrorism just started in 2009?


The military here is not sending billions over there. Thats our government's doings and our government doesnt have a great record of perfection or even anything remotely close to it. So why do you have such great faith in it?? Additionallly there has been a great change there, new dictators complete with prayer rugs in case you missed it. So decades old actions need to be reconsidered. MB is a terrorist group so why should we give it billions?
Do you have no objections to our giving billions to a terrorist organisation?-Tyr

Did you miss post #41? We send them stuff, not cash. Do you really think it's completely unregulated?

Larrymc
12-05-2012, 10:29 AM
Terrorism just started in 2009?



Did you miss post #41? We send them stuff, not cash. Do you really think it's completely unregulated?im sorry i forgot how dense you are i should have clarified i was talking about Egypt

fj1200
12-05-2012, 10:34 AM
im sorry i forgot how dense you are i should have clarified i was talking about Egypt

You do know that they had elections don't you?

Larrymc
12-05-2012, 10:55 AM
You do know that they had elections don't you?Over 70% are protesting, do you really think the people chose this leader

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
12-05-2012, 10:56 AM
Terrorism just started in 2009?



Did you miss post #41? We send them stuff, not cash. Do you really think it's completely unregulated?

No,because its not understood. Its a bribe/gift given to a sworn enemy in the vain hope that they will be more gentle with us later! Its folly and its often done because politicians would rather go along to get along than stand up for whats best, whats right for the nation. Its not important to monitor to those in power because they gave it with those insane and cowardly thoughts in mind. Its not important to monitor because those making such huge mistakes are not second guessing thier ignorance! I do not care what stuff we send them because its folly to give our enemies anything except a blade or a bullet in their wicked heads. We stand free, proud and sovereign by our might and our right not by cunning and cowardice. Replacing the first two with the second two has always been a great folly. History proves it often. I suggest you study history a bit more .. Nations survive on the might and power of their warriors not on the dishonor and appeasement of their politicians!! America shortly after WW2
started depending upn its politicians more and more until we have the current bullshit we have now. Our dependence on corrupt and dishonorable politicians(obama for example) telegraphs to the rest of the world our true weakness. And that we may be weakened and defeated by double dealing and treachery. As we now see in obama's actions of rewarding a terrorist organisation billions because it took control of a country=Egypt!
Pure madness and absolute folly. -Tyr

fj1200
12-05-2012, 11:01 AM
Over 70% are protesting, do you really think the people chose this leader

Do you think the vote totals lie? Besides, they're protesting his power grab not the election results.

Larrymc
12-05-2012, 11:11 AM
Do you think the vote totals lie? Besides, they're protesting his power grab not the election results.you go ahead and stick with that, most of us can see the truth

fj1200
12-05-2012, 11:13 AM
you go ahead and stick with that, most of us can see the truth

If simple questions befuddle you then I have no idea what you see.

Larrymc
12-05-2012, 11:38 AM
you go ahead and stick with that, most of us can see the truthonce again i will clarify for you, YES