Who Cares, right?

[CSM]

Wall Street Journal
December 13, 2012
Pg. 1
U.S. Terrorism Agency To Tap A Vast Database Of Citizens
By Julia AngwinTop U.S. intelligence officials gathered in the White House Situation Room in March to debate a controversial proposal. Counterterrorism officials wanted to create a government dragnet, sweeping up millions of records about U.S. citizens—even people suspected of no crime.
Not everyone was on board. "This is a sea change in the way that the government interacts with the general public," Mary Ellen Callahan, chief privacy officer of the Department of Homeland Security, argued in the meeting, according to people familiar with the discussions.
A week later, the attorney general signed the changes into effect.
Through Freedom of Information Act requests and interviews with officials at numerous agencies, The Wall Street Journal has reconstructed the clash over the counterterrorism program within the administration of President Barack Obama. The debate was a confrontation between some who viewed it as a matter of efficiency—how long to keep data, for instance, or where it should be stored—and others who saw it as granting authority for unprecedented government surveillance of U.S. citizens.
The rules now allow the little-known National Counterterrorism Center to examine the government files of U.S. citizens for possible criminal behavior, even if there is no reason to suspect them. That is a departure from past practice, which barred the agency from storing information about ordinary Americans unless a person was a terror suspect or related to an investigation.
Now, NCTC can copy entire government databases—flight records, casino-employee lists, the names of Americans hosting foreign-exchange students and many others. The agency has new authority to keep data about innocent U.S. citizens for up to five years, and to analyze it for suspicious patterns of behavior. Previously, both were prohibited. Data about Americans "reasonably believed to constitute terrorism information" may be permanently retained.
The changes also allow databases of U.S. civilian information to be given to foreign governments for analysis of their own. In effect, U.S. and foreign governments would be using the information to look for clues that people might commit future crimes.

I bet that there are few US citizens see this as a threat into their individual rights. I also bet there are many who think this is a good thing. I am not among either set.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Wall Street Journal
December 13, 2012
Pg. 1
U.S. Terrorism Agency To Tap A Vast Database Of Citizens


By Julia AngwinTop U.S. intelligence officials gathered in the White House Situation Room in March to debate a controversial proposal. Counterterrorism officials wanted to create a government dragnet, sweeping up millions of records about U.S. citizens—even people suspected of no crime.
Not everyone was on board. "This is a sea change in the way that the government interacts with the general public," Mary Ellen Callahan, chief privacy officer of the Department of Homeland Security, argued in the meeting, according to people familiar with the discussions.
A week later, the attorney general signed the changes into effect.
Through Freedom of Information Act requests and interviews with officials at numerous agencies, The Wall Street Journal has reconstructed the clash over the counterterrorism program within the administration of President Barack Obama. The debate was a confrontation between some who viewed it as a matter of efficiency—how long to keep data, for instance, or where it should be stored—and others who saw it as granting authority for unprecedented government surveillance of U.S. citizens.
The rules now allow the little-known National Counterterrorism Center to examine the government files of U.S. citizens for possible criminal behavior, even if there is no reason to suspect them. That is a departure from past practice, which barred the agency from storing information about ordinary Americans unless a person was a terror suspect or related to an investigation.
Now, NCTC can copy entire government databases—flight records, casino-employee lists, the names of Americans hosting foreign-exchange students and many others. The agency has new authority to keep data about innocent U.S. citizens for up to five years, and to analyze it for suspicious patterns of behavior. Previously, both were prohibited. Data about Americans "reasonably believed to constitute terrorism information" may be permanently retained.
The changes also allow databases of U.S. civilian information to be given to foreign governments for analysis of their own. In effect, U.S. and foreign governments would be using the information to look for clues that people might commit future crimes.

I bet that there are few US citizens see this as a threat into their individual rights. I also bet there are many who think this is a good thing. I am not among either set.

Doesnt matter who cares or why they care. Its the obama's doing and therefore must be A-OK. Thats the media's take, and the take of the ffing idiots that put the lying bastard in again.

We that understand and flat out reject that as being Unconstitutional do not matter anymore. That is unless we are ready and willing to take real action! Then they are ready and willing to shoot us down as dogs first good chance they get. This is the obama set up and plan. He is likely pissed that he hasnt been able to forced armed revolt yet, not yet anyways!-Tyr

[tailfins]

Hopefully someone will file a Fourth Amendment lawsuit when such information is used against them. Where's the ACLU?

[CSM]

This statement bothers me most of all:

"In effect, U.S. and foreign governments would be using the information to look for clues that people might commit future crimes."

Really? Might Commit future crimes? It is not too much of a stretch to envision prosecution of an individual based on the possibility that they just might commit a crime in the future. I can hear some already stating that such a thing would NEVER happen. My retort to that is who would believe that our government would be gathering data on its citizens and using the data to look for clues that people MIGHT commit future crimes ....

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

This statement bothers me most of all:

"In effect, U.S. and foreign governments would be using the information to look for clues that people might commit future crimes."

Really? Might Commit future crimes? It is not too much of a stretch to envision prosecution of an individual based on the possibility that they just might commit a crime in the future. I can hear some already stating that such a thing would NEVER happen. My retort to that is who would believe that our government would be gathering data on its citizens and using the data to look for clues that people MIGHT commit future crimes ....

They already seek far greater control over what you "eat and drink". Seeking such control over what you may "think" thus may do in the future isnt that far fetched when considering that these people and their political philosophy is all about control , total control being their goal. An all powerful central government with total control!! Obama wants to be a dictator like his heroes so bad he can taste it.. --Tyr

[tailfins]

This statement bothers me most of all:

"In effect, U.S. and foreign governments would be using the information to look for clues that people might commit future crimes."

Really? Might Commit future crimes? It is not too much of a stretch to envision prosecution of an individual based on the possibility that they just might commit a crime in the future. I can hear some already stating that such a thing would NEVER happen. My retort to that is who would believe that our government would be gathering data on its citizens and using the data to look for clues that people MIGHT commit future crimes ....

The model of this is Castro's Cuba. Peligrosidad (dangerousness) is prosecuted in Cuba.

http://www.cubaverdad.net/crime_of_dangerousness.htm



Cuba's "criminal Law"
Articles 72-90, which define the crime of peligrosidad, or "dangerousness." These articles come under the heading, "The Dangerous Status and Security Measures," a section of the Penal Code under which someone can be sentenced for up to four years in prison on the grounds that the authorities believe the individual has a "special proclivity" to commit crimes, even though he or she might not have actually committed a crime. These articles broadly define "dangerous" people as those who act in a manner that contradicts "socialist morality" or engage in "anti-social behavior." Moreover, Article 75 provides for an "official warning" to people the authorities deem to be in danger of becoming "dangerous," i.e., those who are not yet "dangerous" but who are regarded as having criminal tendencies because of their "ties or relations with people who are potentially dangerous to society, other people, and to the social, economic and political order of the socialist State…"

[revelarts]

It was OK when Bush did it, it's not ok when Obama does it?

You know I think I'm against Both of them doing it. Or Anyone doing it.

Somehow i don't feel any safer.

CSM your right who cares, I'm beginning to wonder. not as many care about this as they do that a a D or and R get to be president even if they BOTH promote this type of thing.


When i 1st popped a cork on this stuff during the Bush Admin i was told by some republicans in my office who saw the danger that.
"well, you know, it's the times, the pendulum will swing back soon"

looks like the pendulum is still swinging maybe even came off the anchor bar and got wheels and motor.

[Abbey Marie]

Hopefully someone will file a Fourth Amendment lawsuit when such information is used against them. Where's the ACLU?

Where they always are- bravely fighting to keep small children from mentioning God in school, and Christmas trees out of the public square.

[gabosaurus]

It didn't matter when Dubya assumed those rights with the Patriot Act, did it?

After all, if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear. Right?

[tailfins]

It didn't matter when Dubya assumed those rights with the Patriot Act, did it?

After all, if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear. Right?

That's what the guy at the Comité de Defensa de la Revolución told me in Havana. Instead of scaling back the intrusiveness, Obama is outdoing Bush by leaps and bounds.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-zislHmic-mA/UGSCkICi31I/AAAAAAAAA7g/YBHfFnFD3yk/s400/cdr_logo2.jpg

[gabosaurus]

I fail to see where that has been the case. Can you present a comparison?

Are suspected "terrorists" still being arrested and held without bail or representation for months at a time?

[CSM]

It didn't matter when Dubya assumed those rights with the Patriot Act, did it?

After all, if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear. Right?

Hmm, I don't recall anything in this thread (so far and until now) reflecting on or casting aspersions at any particular administration. Infringement of individual rights is not confined to any one political party as far as I can tell. As for your last sentence in this post, I believe that many oppressors (like the SS, Gestapo, and KGB) had the same philosophy. Then again, I fully realize that you have no real wish to discuss or debate the actual finer points of the Attorney General's actions and are merely trying to "score" some political points (and also to troll) for "your team". Too bad because I suspect you are actually far more intelligent than you display by your posts on this board and you probably could contribute some valid and interesting points to such a discussion.

[CSM]

Hopefully someone will file a Fourth Amendment lawsuit when such information is used against them. Where's the ACLU?

Where they always are- bravely fighting to keep small children from mentioning God in school, and Christmas trees out of the public square.

It is all a matter of perception. The ACLU has taken on some very contentious and unpopular causes both liberal and conservative.

[revelarts]

the whole bunch is rotten y'all.

It didn't matter when Dubya assumed those rights with the Patriot Act, did it?

After all, if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear. Right?

oh the Patriot Act, Which Obama and the dem congressES have renewed several times now. But they can't bring themselves to renew the evil tax breaks, that'd be wrong :rolleyes:.

NDAA Obama piles on and Romney agreed with him.

Obama has tried more gov't whistle blowers than any prez, he campaigned as the whistle blowers friend.

Obama signed off on the telecoms not being libel for tapping phones without proper authority AFTER he said that it was wrong and he wouldn't.

Dubya got the train rolling good but Obamas riding the that thing like a champ gabby. and Many on the left that screamed facism when Bush did it are quiet now. A few are still on the job but the it's like 1/50th of media noise now on these issues.

[revelarts]

I fail to see where that has been the case. Can you present a comparison?

Are suspected "terrorists" still being arrested and held without bail or representation for months at a time?
um yes.

many are even still in GITMO, (didn't he say he was going to close that) who have been legally cleared are STILL in gitmo. Check Bagram AFB. And other mil prison a round the world.
ANd Obama has gone further, he doesn't arrest without charg suspected terrorist he Drones Strikes them. kills them dead, American or not.

Obama's worse yes. And Romney agreed with it all.

[aboutime]

Has anyone bothered to notice how American Marines, Soldiers, Sailors, and Airmen have not been CAPTURING, or RETURNING any new prisoners to GITMO, or any other Foreign Prisons?

If so. Have you wondered why?

Simply put. Since the Obama administration instituted the RULES OF ENGAGEMENT for our Military, and at the same time...STOPPED using the words TERRORISTS, or TERRORISM.

The answer is, as someone else said. "We are TAKING NO PRISONERS". Dead enemy bodies DO NOT GET to court, and do not get the protections of our Constitution.

So. Obama DRONE'S ON!

[fj1200]

Has anyone bothered to notice how American Marines, Soldiers, Sailors, and Airmen have not been CAPTURING, or RETURNING any new prisoners to GITMO, or any other Foreign Prisons?

Do you get e-mail alerts when that happens?

[aboutime]

Do you get e-mail alerts when that happens?


No need when thousands of neighbors are all in Military uniforms every day.

One of the many Benefits of having a THIRTY year, naval career.

[CSM]

Has anyone bothered to notice how American Marines, Soldiers, Sailors, and Airmen have not been CAPTURING, or RETURNING any new prisoners to GITMO, or any other Foreign Prisons?

If so. Have you wondered why?

Simply put. Since the Obama administration instituted the RULES OF ENGAGEMENT for our Military, and at the same time...STOPPED using the words TERRORISTS, or TERRORISM.

The answer is, as someone else said. "We are TAKING NO PRISONERS". Dead enemy bodies DO NOT GET to court, and do not get the protections of our Constitution.

So. Obama DRONE'S ON!

There is some validity to what you say. There is also the fact that we have far fewer troops on the ground (even in Afghanistan) and none in Pakistan at all means there are fewer face to face engagements. Also, a lot of the missions which, up until recently, were carried out by US personnel are now being executed by host nation soldiers who may or may not be inclined to take prisoners which may or may not end up in US hands. Drone strikes eliminate the need for providing security and, as you point out, dead men tell no tales.

[fj1200]

No need when thousands of neighbors are all in Military uniforms every day.

One of the many Benefits of having a THIRTY year, naval career.

Maybe we've also recognized the folly of bringing them back to US "soil."

[tailfins]

Do you get e-mail alerts when that happens?

Those would be pretty interesting! Where do I sign up for them?

[fj1200]

Those would be pretty interesting! Where do I sign up for them?

:dunno: I was hoping to start getting them myself. Maybe an app could be developed that gives instant notification of secret military detainee transports.

[aboutime]

Those would be pretty interesting! Where do I sign up for them?


You could go to "http://obama.gov" or "http://whitehouse.gov"

You might even get a free cell phone, welfare, food stamps, or called a RACIST.

[tailfins]

You could go to "http://obama.gov" or "http://whitehouse.gov"

You might even get a free cell phone, welfare, food stamps, or called a RACIST.

http://obama.gov is a dead link.

[aboutime]

http://obama.gov is a dead link.


EXACTLY! When it was active. It was dead. Glad to hear it's no longer up. You and I were paying for something we didn't want, need, or approve of anyhow.

Doesn't really matter. They (Obama) doesn't care what WE THE PEOPLE say, or think. We're too RACIST for him to care.