Teaching kids about death

[gabosaurus]

Today we are holding a free counseling session for kids who have upset by the Connecticut school shootings.
It's not political in nature. It's primary purpose is try to assure kids that they are safe in school and that this incident was a relative rarity.
We also acquainted parents with security measures in our schools and the safety drills that are practiced on a regular basis.

The toughest part is trying to explain to very young people (like my daughter) why an adult would want to harm them. The idea of an adult coming after you with a weapon is foreign to many in our elementary schools.

A great many counselors, teachers and administrators are giving up their Saturday (without pay) to help kids feel safe.

[WiccanLiberal]

Point is we are all increasingly unsafe everywhere. My personal opinion is that it would be a better effort teaching kids that the world is not safe and they need skills to minimize the dangers.

[Kathianne]

Point is we are all increasingly unsafe everywhere. My personal opinion is that it would be a better effort teaching kids that the world is not safe and they need skills to minimize the dangers.

I think for the most part, that makes sense in situations the child is most likely to be exposed to perps. (Movies and malls come to mind). "There are people that might harm you, it's important that you always are where mommy or daddy can see you." Older children that might go to a mall with friends or separate with siblings or parent when shopping, say 11 or 12 and up, "Do not any of you go into a bathroom or anywhere alone. If someone makes you uncomfortable, get away, if necessary scream." Then there are the 'be careful what you say, but give them defenses: coaches, teachers, ministers, family members, friends parents and older siblings...

Now a problem with saying, 'school is not safe,' what are THEY to do? If their parents truly believe that, they shouldn't send them to school. Especially in this case, with mostly 6 and 7 year olds? What about the ages 2-5 preschoolers and kindergarten children? Saying 'school isn't safe' is nearly a guarantee to making children afraid for time away from home. Not learning conducive, other than towards building anxiety.

[gabosaurus]

When elementary age kids head to school, they shouldn't fear that some guy is going to appear and shoot them. That was the point. It wasn't meant to tell kids that the entire world is safe.

That being said, I feel very safe in our schools. We have a "lock down procedure" where an administrator can activate the locks on every room on a campus with one central activation. Faculty members are trained in what to do during emergencies of all sorts. We have armed security at every campus.
We also have a strict dress code and rules about what you can or can not bring to school.
Parents have often complained about our "overly strict" rules. I bet they won't for a while now.

[Kathianne]

When elementary age kids head to school, they shouldn't fear that some guy is going to appear and shoot them. That was the point. It wasn't meant to tell kids that the entire world is safe.

That being said, I feel very safe in our schools. We have a "lock down procedure" where an administrator can activate the locks on every room on a campus with one central activation. Faculty members are trained in what to do during emergencies of all sorts. We have armed security at every campus.
We also have a strict dress code and rules about what you can or can not bring to school.
Parents have often complained about our "overly strict" rules. I bet they won't for a while now.

and like me, you're in secondary school. My difference was being for years in ps-8th school. What works in some measure for secondary, fails for earlier years.

The horror in CT was the lower years.

[Noir]

Do ypu live near the area of the shootings or something? If not then i don't see why young children have been exposed to a tragedy to the extent that its making them upset, and in need of Consoling.

[Kathianne]

When elementary age kids head to school, they shouldn't fear that some guy is going to appear and shoot them. That was the point. It wasn't meant to tell kids that the entire world is safe.

That being said, I feel very safe in our schools. We have a "lock down procedure" where an administrator can activate the locks on every room on a campus with one central activation. Faculty members are trained in what to do during emergencies of all sorts. We have armed security at every campus.
We also have a strict dress code and rules about what you can or can not bring to school.
Parents have often complained about our "overly strict" rules. I bet they won't for a while now.

I don't see that the school ididn't have all the procedures you've described. From what I've read, they did. They DID NOT allow him entrance, he forced entry by either shooting or smashing out glass by the doors. The point being unless someone stopped him forcibly, he wasn't stopping and was armed, obviously.

The teachers quickly became aware of the threat, someone left on the intercom. We've heard from several teachers that they covered the door glass and hallway windows. These were tiny children, they were able to pile them into closets and empty cabinets. One teacher did that, told him they were in gym, he killed her and moved on. He tried to get into the kindergarten, seems that's where the mother had worked, at some point in time. He couldn't. How he gained entry to the two first grade classrooms? My guess is we will be told in the coming days.

[mundame]

Now a problem with saying, 'school is not safe,' what are THEY to do? If their parents truly believe that, they shouldn't send them to school. Especially in this case, with mostly 6 and 7 year olds? What about the ages 2-5 preschoolers and kindergarten children? Saying 'school isn't safe' is nearly a guarantee to making children afraid for time away from home. Not learning conducive, other than towards building anxiety.


It's true, though, and is one of the big motivators for home schooling.

I remember when my daughter went to high school in a mixed school and the black boys were continually, non-stop coming up to her and saying that if she wouldn't have sex with them, it meant she was "prejudiced." My husband pulled her right out and into a private school.

There is the constant sex promotion, the muggings for lunch money, the terrible bullying, and then a lot of male teachers are pedophiles --- that's why they're there, to get at children. And THEN there is the continual left-wing propaganda agenda, indoctrinating all children in "taker" and victim mindsets!

No, the public schools are now unsafe and the quality of education is the pits compared to the old days. I honestly do think that sending children to public schools ------- MOST public schools -------- is very, very close to child abuse, and a whole lot of parents seem to agree with me. The flight from public schools proceeds rapidly, and who can blame parents, with all this bad stuff going on.

[mundame]

That being said, I feel very safe in our schools. We have a "lock down procedure" where an administrator can activate the locks on every room on a campus with one central activation. Faculty members are trained in what to do during emergencies of all sorts. We have armed security at every campus.
We also have a strict dress code and rules about what you can or can not bring to school.
Parents have often complained about our "overly strict" rules. I bet they won't for a while now.


You feel safe in school because you have a "lock down procedure" in which an administrator can lock every room up with a flip of the switch....and faculty trained for what to do when a black-clad shooter with a Bushmaster comes shooting his way through the door. And you have armed men at every school.

Gee, I can remember going to school without a single one of those amenities, and feeling perfectly safe. I wonder if perhaps things have changed and are just basically not safe anymore? Why, yes, I believe things have changed.

As for training faculty members what to do in "emergencies" --- can't hurt to have some procedures trained that make better sense than some things that happened at Columbine, but I doubt very much anyone can train heroism and quick thinking. Friday a woman threw her body against the door of the room she ran back into after the principal and psychologist were shot down in the hall. Lanzi tried to get in and shot through the door and wounded her in two places in the leg -------- but he didn't get in and the people in that room all lived. That was quick thinking.

As for heroism, there was the elderly prof in his '70s from Eastern Europe at Virginia Tech when Cho was shooting -- "Climb out the window!" sez he to his class, "All of you! Go now!" and he held the door shut while they did climb out, and the gunman Cho didn't find anyone to kill except him, and shot him dead. This makes me think, our lives may have more importance than we can imagine, and that may show up quite late and unexpectedly.


The hero's name was Liviu Librescu, a much-published aeronautics engineer from Romania, who survived the Holocaust in World War II. He was 76.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,266506,00.html#ixzz2FEJ91LkA

[WiccanLiberal]

All kinds of people die every day and safety is an illusion at best. Teach that to the little ones and teach them how to avoid the biggest threats. New York City school kids pass through metal detectors every day and they know they are not safe from every threat in the world. Make stronger kids who can cope with the world as it is and not blind themselves with a false sense of security. Sometimes the monsters under the bed are real.

[gabosaurus]

Oh mundame you are certainly correct. We need to hide our kids under the bed until it is safe to go out in the world. :rolleyes:

http://www.guzer.com/pictures/down-bad-stuff.jpg

[Kathianne]

All kinds of people die every day and safety is an illusion at best. Teach that to the little ones and teach them how to avoid the biggest threats. New York City school kids pass through metal detectors every day and they know they are not safe from every threat in the world. Make stronger kids who can cope with the world as it is and not blind themselves with a false sense of security. Sometimes the monsters under the bed are real.

We basically disagree on our view of the world and what it should be like.

Most people, adults and children are not a threat to anyone. The problem are the outliers. I seem to remember that from a novel. Oh yeah, Stephen someone.

In the past 50 years, how many students have been killed by mass killers? Oh, right.

How many from gangs, love triangles, BD kids gone deranged? Really?

In reality, the safety of students has increased dramatically since 1990. Fewer assaults, murders, rapes. Schools are cognizant of the problems.

A lone gunman or two, willing to die? At which school and when? I can't think of a 'more perfect' school than what appeared to be the one in CT. As I mentioned much earlier, on this or another thread, most mass school killings have happened in affluent schools, near the tops in their states for both performance and community approval. They have the means and desire to help those that struggle.

Inner city schools have vastly more problems, so far though, mass killings doesn't seem to be one of their many burdens.

http://www.npr.org/2012/03/16/148758783/violence-in-schools-how-big-a-problem-is-it


Violence In Schools: How Big A Problem Is It? <input id="title148758783" value="Violence In Schools: How Big A Problem Is It?" type="hidden"> <input id="modelShortUrl148758783" value="http://n.pr/FO8xLa" type="hidden"> <input id="modelFullUrl148758783" value="http://www.npr.org/2012/03/16/148758783/violence-in-schools-how-big-a-problem-is-it" type="hidden">
<!-- END CLASS="STORYTITLE" --> by Scott Neuman (http://www.npr.org/people/131724812/scott-neuman)

<!-- END CLASS="BUCKETWRAP BYLINE" ID="RES148759567" PREVIEWTITLE="BYLINES" -->
<!-- END ID="STORYBYLINE" CLASS=" LINKLOCATION" --> March 16, 2012

When an Ohio high school student killed three classmates in a shooting rampage several weeks ago, it once again brought a national spotlight to a problem widely believed to be epidemic in schools.


The reality, experts say, is exactly the opposite: Violent crime in schools has decreased significantly since the early 1990s.


Dewey Cornell, a clinical psychologist and education professor at the University of Virginia, says incidents like the one in Chardon, Ohio, and the infamous mass shootings at Columbine High School in Colorado and at Virginia Tech have reinforced a perception that schools are dangerous places.


"But that's just not true," says Cornell, who has been examining school violence for decades. "I know on the heels of any school shooting, there's the perception that violence is on the rise. It's not. In fact, there's been a very steady downward trend for the past 15 years."


Safer Than Anywhere Else



Research by Cornell and others shows that school-age and college-age kids are not only safer but far more secure on school campuses than anywhere else. There's also broad agreement that the zero-tolerance policies popular in some school systems have had little to do with the decrease and may, in fact, have proved to be counterproductive.


School violence in the U.S. reached a peak in 1993, according to the National Center for Education Statistics. That year, there were 42 homicides by students and 13 "serious violent crimes" — rape, sexual assault, robbery and aggravated assault — per 1,000 students at primary and secondary schools. By 2010, the latest figures available, those numbers had decreased to two homicides and four violent crimes per 1,000 students.

...

[tailfins]

Oh mundame you are certainly correct. We need to hide our kids under the bed until it is safe to go out in the world. :rolleyes:



My kids seemed receptive to the idea that the shooter in Connecticut was no different than a drunk driver. They were apprehensive that I work in that area and plan us to move us all to that area next year. Whether it's a drunk driver or a shooter, the kids are just as dead. I mentioned to my oldest how thousands of kids are killed every year in car wrecks. He thought the shootings are being talked about so much so news people can make money.

[Kathianne]

My kids seemed receptive to the idea that the shooter in Connecticut was no different than a drunk driver. They were apprehensive that I work in that area and plan us to move us all to that area next year. Whether it's a drunk driver or a shooter, the kids are just as dead. I mentioned to my oldest how thousands of kids are killed every year in car wrecks. He thought the shootings are being talked about so much so news people can make money.

Actually with kids over the age of 7 or 8, this is the best tactic to take, imo. There have been very few school deaths over the past 50 years or 100 year or 25 years. Compare that to the numbers in accidents and they really melt.

At the same time, reinforce that these kids did nothing to warrant the violence and why it's so important to keep even strangers in our thoughts. The shooter didn't see the pain of the families or his victims, his only concern was himself.

For religious folks, the lessons are clear. For non-religious the absence of empathy is likewise.

[gabosaurus]

My kids seemed receptive to the idea that the shooter in Connecticut was no different than a drunk driver. They were apprehensive that I work in that area and plan us to move us all to that area next year. Whether it's a drunk driver or a shooter, the kids are just as dead. I mentioned to my oldest how thousands of kids are killed every year in car wrecks. He thought the shootings are being talked about so much so news people can make money.

You are absolutely correct on this. With TV news moving from two or three broadcasts a day to 24-hour news cycles, these tragedies are the ideal fodder for media overkill. Which I believe creates the ideal atmosphere for more tragedies.
In fact, I told my daughter about the same thing. That shooters are often sick people, sort of like drunk drivers.
I wish we would get tougher on drunk driving instead of almost condoning it. Any drunk driving accident that results in a fatality should be prosecuted as murder. If you shoot or stab someone to death, it is prosecuted as murder. Why is driving drunk not such?

[Kathianne]

You are absolutely correct on this. With TV news moving from two or three broadcasts a day to 24-hour news cycles, these tragedies are the ideal fodder for media overkill. Which I believe creates the ideal atmosphere for more tragedies.
In fact, I told my daughter about the same thing. That shooters are often sick people, sort of like drunk drivers.
I wish we would get tougher on drunk driving instead of almost condoning it. Any drunk driving accident that results in a fatality should be prosecuted as murder. If you shoot or stab someone to death, it is prosecuted as murder. Why is driving drunk not such?

and inexperienced teen drivers, along with elderly drivers, who shouldn't be driving. Then there are the very able adults, with screaming kids in the back. Yep, s lot of causes for kids dying by traffic accidents.

Then there's illness. Childhood cancers. Flu that can't be addressed, etc.

How much to tell, at what age?

Most small children should have been shielded from what happened in CT. It doesn't pertain to them. Yes, their schools may change some protocols, but the little ones will just accept. Their parents and teachers may fret, but the kids shouldn't have to. Except in the town it happened. Those kids? My prayers are with them.