Fiscal responsibility vs. Sandy aid

[gabosaurus]

I was wondering how NY-NJ residents on DP felt about the House delaying the vote on Sandy aid.
Boehner reps say he was caught between those wanting to pass the aid package and those who opposed any such spending.
At least we know how the Governor of New Jersey feels:

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/01/christie_sandy_relief_bill_pre.html#incart_m-rpt-1#incart_maj-story-1

[tailfins]

I was wondering how NY-NJ residents on DP felt about the House delaying the vote on Sandy aid.
Boehner reps say he was caught between those wanting to pass the aid package and those who opposed any such spending.
At least we know how the Governor of New Jersey feels:

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/01/christie_sandy_relief_bill_pre.html#incart_m-rpt-1#incart_maj-story-1


Let him change parties like Charlie Crist.

[Kathianne]

I was wondering how NY-NJ residents on DP felt about the House delaying the vote on Sandy aid. Boehner reps say he was caught between those wanting to pass the aid package and those who opposed any such spending. At least we know how the Governor of New Jersey feels: http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/01/christie_sandy_relief_bill_pre.html#incart_m-rpt-1#incart_maj-story-1

Pork:


...Congress wrote up Hurricane Sandy Relief legislation and then Harry Reid's Senate loaded it with pork. What's in it? Many things (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/little_help_here_1kW6aQ8fElj4CKwbheEV0N) that hardly count as relief for victims.
The pork-barrel feast includes more than $8 million to buy cars and equipment for the Homeland Security and Justice departments. It also includes a whopping $150 million for the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration to dole out to fisheries in Alaska and $2 million for the Smithsonian Institution to repair museum roofs in DC.

An eye-popping $13 billion would go to “mitigation” projects to prepare for future storms.

Other big-ticket items in the bill include $207 million for the VA Manhattan Medical Center; $41 million to fix up eight military bases along the storm’s path, including Guantanamo Bay, Cuba; $4 million for repairs at Kennedy Space Center in Florida; $3.3 million for the Plum Island Animal Disease Center and $1.1 million to repair national cemeteries.

Budget watchdogs have dubbed the 94-page emergency-spending bill “Sandy Scam.”



$58.8 million for forest restoration on private land.
$197 million “to… protect coastal ecosystems and habitat impacted by Hurricane Sandy.”
$10.78 billion for public transportation, most of which is allocated to future construction and improvements, not disaster relief.
$17 billion for wasteful Community Development Block Grants (CDBG), a program that has become notorious for its use as a backdoor earmark program...

[gabosaurus]

Where did all the pork come from? The bill I read had none of that. Perhaps added later.

Congress needs to learn from the musicians who put together the Sandy Aid concert. It raised $50 million that being distributed directly to those in need.

http://www.pollstar.com/news_article.aspx?ID=803756

[jimnyc]

Pork:

And that one word sums it up. When it comes to such relief funds, neither party should be able to infect, and therefore stall, such needed funds.

[gabosaurus]

And that one word sums it up. When it comes to such relief funds, neither party should be able to infect, and therefore stall, such needed funds.

I totally agree. Disaster relief bills should be passed as is.

[Kathianne]

Where did all the pork come from? The bill I read had none of that. Perhaps added later.

Congress needs to learn from the musicians who put together the Sandy Aid concert. It raised $50 million that being distributed directly to those in need.

http://www.pollstar.com/news_article.aspx?ID=803756

Wow Gabby! Private relief trumps government. Who would have thought?

Actually the story of pork and Sandy Relief Bill is not new, pretty sure I posted on it back when this article was written:

http://www.rollcall.com/news/senate_appropriators_prepare_sandy_relief_bill-219857-1.html?pos=oplyh


Senate Appropriators Prepare Sandy Relief Bill Aid package could move with House-passed Military Construction-VA spending bill next week and will seek funding for repairs to transit, housing across the East Coast

By Kerry Young (http://www.rollcall.com/reporters/129.html)
Roll Call Staff
Dec. 10, 2012,

...


Dec. 12:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/12/sandy-aid-package-includes-millions-for-smithsonian-space-center-forests/

[MtnBiker]

"Fiscal responsibility" ?? Where in the Constitution does it state that the federal government provide aid to those affected by a weather event?

Before some one cries "general welfare" clause, that is what insurance is for.

[Robert A Whit]

I was wondering how NY-NJ residents on DP felt about the House delaying the vote on Sandy aid.
Boehner reps say he was caught between those wanting to pass the aid package and those who opposed any such spending.
At least we know how the Governor of New Jersey feels:

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/01/christie_sandy_relief_bill_pre.html#incart_m-rpt-1#incart_maj-story-1

I listened to Governor Christie.

Who realizes this is precisely what takes place once you put the Feds in charge of things such as hurricane clean up? Now that Christie came to depend on Democrats, he is angry.

[Kathianne]

"Fiscal responsibility" ?? Where in the Constitution does it state that the federal government provide aid to those affected by a weather event?

Before some one cries "general welfare" clause, that is what insurance is for.

Indeed. General welfare pertains to things like national guards, interstate roads, bridges. Dams that serve an interstate population. In other words, projects too big for a single state.

The federal government has no reason to be involved in local education, local or state projects, etc.

That in fact they are involved in education, creating unfunded mandates, while also choosing which books are acceptable and are not, should give everyone pause. By shouldering off their responsibilities to the least able onto local school districts, then creating NCLB, where these same school districts are expected to test these children that haven't any business being in the schools.

[Kathianne]

My heart breaks for the losses suffered by so many from Hurricane Sandy. However, those owning homes should have carried the necessary insurance policies to help. Local government and private groups could step in to help during the interim between 'homeless' and rebuilding. I know that many didn't have the necessary coverages, if they were few, again I think help would have been forthcoming, as Gabby mentioned with concert.

Now we look at the devastation, which is immense. However, if I own a home with a mortgage or without and am uninsured or under insured and have a fire? I don't think the fed is going to help me out and slip some for GITMO in there either. I might be blessed to have a church or community group help me out, but government? What makes a hurricane different?

[Robert A Whit]

Pork:

I advocate the single purpose bill or law. They treat laws like they have freight trucks rather than dump trucks.

Dump trucks are generally used for one thing. It may be coal, it might be copper ore or iron ore, but you know when the truck dumps the load, you don't have to worry about copper ore being mixed with fertilizer.

Congress has this awful habit of trying to name a law one thing, such as the Sandy hurricane law but loading the law with the things Kathianne shows all of us. Crap that belongs in it's own law.

[SassyLady]

Saw a lady on tv that was wondering where the "sign up list" for the celebrity concert aid is located.

So, how does one go about getting the celebrity aid?

[gabosaurus]

Saw a lady on tv that was wondering where the "sign up list" for the celebrity concert aid is located.

So, how does one go about getting the celebrity aid?

Read the story and you will find out. There are some very stringent requirements.

[SassyLady]

Read the story and you will find out. There are some very stringent requirements.

I read both articles, Gabby, and could not find a phone number for anyone to call. I'm wondering how this woman, who is staying in a hotel room with her children, can reach the people who are handing out the money collected from the concert. It seems to me, from reading the article, that the monies were given to various organizations and has not gone directly to any individual. Perhaps I just missed that bit of information.

[red states rule]

Where did all the pork come from? The bill I read had none of that. Perhaps added later.

Congress needs to learn from the musicians who put together the Sandy Aid concert. It raised $50 million that being distributed directly to those in need.

http://www.pollstar.com/news_article.aspx?ID=803756

It came from Dems Gabby. Perhaps this bill is like Obamacare where they have to pass the bill so we (the ones paying the bill) can find out what is in it. Yet the people holding it up so the pork can be taken out are portrayed as the bad guys

[fj1200]

I read both articles, Gabby, and could not find a phone number for anyone to call. I'm wondering how this woman, who is staying in a hotel room with her children, can reach the people who are handing out the money collected from the concert. It seems to me, from reading the article, that the monies were given to various organizations and has not gone directly to any individual. Perhaps I just missed that bit of information.

Well, at least the celebs got good press.

[glockmail]

"Fiscal responsibility" ?? Where in the Constitution does it state that the federal government provide aid to those affected by a weather event?

Before some one cries "general welfare" clause, that is what insurance is for.


This. There is no such thing as a general welfare clause. Read the Federalist if you believe otherwise. The cities and states should fix their own roads and infrastructure, tax the property owners accordingly, and let private insurance cover private property. I choose to live far from the ocean because I don't want my stuff destroyed every time there's a damn hurricane. Those folks choose to pay for the ocean view, the salt air, and all the headaches that goes with it. Why should I pay for it?

[aboutime]

It came from Dems Gabby. Perhaps this bill is like Obamacare where they have to pass the bill so we (the ones paying the bill) can find out what is in it. Yet the people holding it up so the pork can be taken out are portrayed as the bad guys


What took place the other night in the Senate, was nothing more than a repeat performance of the vote for OBAMACARE.

Remember when Nancy Pelosi told everybody..."We have to vote on it before we know what's in it."

Members of the Senate have now disclosed....they had THIRTEEN MINUTES to read more than 100 pages of the Bill.
But. Like before. They....THE ENTIRE CONGRESS.


SOLD EVERY AMERICAN DOWN THE RIVER, and THEY WILL DO IT AGAIN.

[Robert A Whit]

I think that a major reason Gov. Chris Christie was so angry is that the so called pork was removed from the law to get republicans to vote for it. Christie stated he was informed that the vote would happen on Tuesday but it did not happen and thus he was pissed. I believe he is my source that the alleged pork was removed.

I believe that disaster help, when approved by congress, should confine in words the law to just the issue of relief.

I would not go so far as to call all the spending that supposedly got removed as pork.

Some of those other projects are valid as to needs and are accepted as to purposes. But to highack the disaster law to include the others strikes me as pure laziness on the part of congress. That or they tried to pull the wool over our eyes again.

I am reminded that even today, 7 years later, Katrina damage still exists. Are those familes all forgotton?

DC might as well be in China for all I care. Seems to me that they promise help then wrap up the project in strings and broken promises.

[gabosaurus]

The majority of Sandy aid, as was the case with Katrina, goes to businesses and public buildings. Homeowners benefit from low-cost federal loans, which are not exactly handouts.
Rebuilding offices and businesses directly affects the economy of New York and New Jersey, which in turn benefits the people who live there.
It's not exactly people lining up for a handout, though I am sure there are some who find a way to cheat the system.

[Kathianne]

Too add money to NASA, GITMO in a Hurricane package is pork. Indeed, considering Obama's signing statement last night included Gitmo as not worth the money it costs (http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/01/03/3166011/obama-signs-633b-defense-bill.html), is very interesting indeed. There is no doubt the add ons were pork.

Dan Coats offered an amendment to cut out the pork, it did not get approved.

[Kathianne]

The majority of Sandy aid, as was the case with Katrina, goes to businesses and public buildings. Homeowners benefit from low-cost federal loans, which are not exactly handouts.
Rebuilding offices and businesses directly affects the economy of New York and New Jersey, which in turn benefits the people who live there.
It's not exactly people lining up for a handout, though I am sure there are some who find a way to cheat the system.

A bit of a look around and you'll find that 2/3 of 'package' was going to 'future sites that might be hit' and regarding actions like money for Gitmo, Smithsonian, and NASA. Even some for 'reforestation' of non-effected areas.

[gabosaurus]

Unfortunately, pork is the life blood of ALL politicians (both parties). There are various pork lists on line that list the worst offenders.
Worst thing is that the same politicians who complain about pork are not afraid to claim some for their districts or states. They believe it is their duty.

Speaking of, there was a story on the news this morning about various pork additions to the Fiscal Cliff bill, to make sure it passed. I believe there is money allotted for building NASCAR tracks and subsidizing asparagus farmers. :rolleyes:

[Kathianne]

Unfortunately, pork is the life blood of ALL politicians (both parties). There are various pork lists on line that list the worst offenders.
Worst thing is that the same politicians who complain about pork are not afraid to claim some for their districts or states. They believe it is their duty.

Speaking of, there was a story on the news this morning about various pork additions to the Fiscal Cliff bill, to make sure it passed. I believe there is money allotted for building NASCAR tracks and subsidizing asparagus farmers. :rolleyes:

and rum producers, Chase, Citi, Goldman Sachs, BOA, Hollywood...

Relief bills though, just wrong.

Bills should have to be passed, clean. If money is wanted for special projects, pass a bill for that. Really people should be up in arms over this.

[Robert A Whit]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pork_barrel#History (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pork_barrel#History)
<o:p></o:p>
Pork barrel is the appropriation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appropriation_(law)) of government spending for localized projects secured solely or primarily to bring money to a representative's district. The usage originated in American English (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_English).[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/#cite_note-1) In election campaigns, the term is used in derogatory fashion to attack opponents. Scholars, however, use it as a technical term regarding legislative control of local appropriations.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/#cite_note-2)<o:p></o:p>



History</SPAN><o:p></o:p>The term pork barrel politics usually refers to spending which is intended to benefit constituents (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_district) of a politician (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politician) in return for their political support, either in the form of campaign contributions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campaign_finance) or votes. In the popular 1863 story "The Children of the Public", Edward Everett Hale (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Everett_Hale) used the term pork barrel as a homely metaphor for any form of public spending to the citizenry.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/#cite_note-3) After the American Civil War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War), however, the term came to be used in a derogatory sense. The Oxford English Dictionary dates the modern sense of the term from 1873.[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/#cite_note-4) By the 1870s, references to "pork" were common in Congress, and the term was further popularized by a 1919 article by Chester Collins Maxey in the National Municipal Review, which reported on certain legislative acts known to members of Congress as "pork barrel bills". He claimed that the phrase originated in a pre-Civil War practice of giving slaves a barrel of salt pork as a reward and requiring them to compete among themselves to get their share of the handout.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/#cite_note-5) More generally, a barrel of salt pork (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_pork) was a common larder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larder) item in 19th century households, and could be used as a measure of the family's financial well-being. For example, in his 1845 novel The Chainbearer, James Fenimore Cooper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Fenimore_Cooper) wrote, "I hold a family to be in a desperate way, when the mother can see the bottom of the pork barrel."[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/#cite_note-6)<o:p></o:p>
[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pork_barrel&action=edit&section=2)] Definition<o:p></o:p>Typically, "pork" involves funding for government programs whose economic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic) or service benefits are concentrated in a particular area but whose costs are spread among all taxpayers. Public works (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_works) projects, certain national defense spending projects, and agricultural subsidies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agricultural_subsidies) are the most commonly cited examples.<o:p></o:p>
Citizens Against Government Waste (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_Against_Government_Waste)[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/#cite_note-7) outlines seven criteria by which spending can be classified as "pork":<o:p></o:p>


Requested by only one chamber of Congress<o:p></o:p>
Not specifically authorized<o:p></o:p>
Not competitively awarded<o:p></o:p>
Not requested by the President<o:p></o:p>
Greatly exceeds the President’s budget request or the previous year’s funding<o:p></o:p>
Not the subject of Congressional hearings<o:p></o:p>
Serves only a local or special interest.<o:p></o:p>

[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pork_barrel&action=edit&section=3)] Examples<o:p></o:p>One of the earliest examples of pork barrel politics in the United States was the Bonus Bill of 1817 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Bill_of_1817), which was introduced by Democrat John C. Calhoun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Calhoun) to construct highways (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highways) linking the Eastern and Southern United States to its Western frontier (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontier#The_U.S._frontier) using the earnings bonus from the Second Bank of the United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bank_of_the_United_States). Calhoun argued for it using general welfare and post roads clauses of the United States Constitution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Constitution). Although he approved of the economic development goal, President James Madison (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Madison) vetoed the bill as unconstitutional (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutionality).<o:p></o:p>
1873 Defiance (Ohio) Democrat 13 Sept. 1/8: "Recollecting their many previous visits to the public pork-barrel,... this hue-and-cry over the salary grab... puzzles quite as much as it alarms them."
1896 Overland Monthly Sept. 370/2: "Another illustration represents Mr. Ford in the act of hooking out a chunk of River and Harbor Pork out of a Congressional Pork Barrel valued at two hundred and fifty thousand dollars."<o:p></o:p>
One of the most famous alleged pork-barrel projects was the Big Dig (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig_(Boston,_Massachusetts)) in Boston (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston), Massachusetts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts). The Big Dig was a project to relocate an existing 3.5-mile (5.6 km) section of the interstate highway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_highway) system underground. It ended up costing US$14.6 billion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1,000,000,000_(number)), or over US$4 billion per mile.[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/#cite_note-8) Tip O'Neill (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tip_O%27Neill) (D-Mass), after whom one of the Big Dig tunnels was named, pushed to have the Big Dig funded by the federal government while he was the Speaker of the United States House of Representatives (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speaker_of_the_United_States_House_of_Representati ves). [9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/#cite_note-9)<o:p></o:p>
During the 2008 U.S. presidential campaign (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2008), the Gravina Island Bridge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravina_Island_Bridge) (also known as the "Bridge to Nowhere") in Alaska was cited as an example of pork barrel spending. The bridge, pushed for by Republican Senator Ted Stevens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Stevens), was projected to cost $398 million and would connect the island's 50 residents and the Ketchikan International Airport (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketchikan_International_Airport) to Revillagigedo Island (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revillagigedo_Island) and Ketchikan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketchikan).[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/#cite_note-10)<o:p></o:p>
Pork-barrel projects, or earmarks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earmark_(politics)), are added to the federal budget by members of the appropriation committees of United States Congress (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Congress). This allows delivery of federal funds to the local district or state of the appropriation committee member, often accommodating major campaign contributors. To a certain extent, a member of Congress is judged by their ability to deliver funds to their constituents. The Chairman and the ranking member (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranking_member) of the U.S. Senate Committee on Appropriations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Senate_Committee_on_Appropriations) are in a position to deliver significant benefits to their states.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

[bingster]

I was wondering how NY-NJ residents on DP felt about the House delaying the vote on Sandy aid.
Boehner reps say he was caught between those wanting to pass the aid package and those who opposed any such spending.
At least we know how the Governor of New Jersey feels:

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/01/christie_sandy_relief_bill_pre.html#incart_m-rpt-1#incart_maj-story-1

If I lived in New Jersey, I'd vote for him. He's The Boss!

[WiccanLiberal]

Aside from a check from FEMA for about $2000 V4R and I have received nothing from the government. The charity and government aid goes to the persons with their hands constantly out for gimmes. Most of the people I know, if they are getting any help, are getting low cost loans. Be aware, even with insurance, the losses were so overwhelming, the insurance couldn't cover it all. And the insurance companies are dragging their feet in paying out in many cases. I am not surprised at the additions to the law though. The bill had a lot of popular sympathy attached to it so lawmakers figured out ways to attach their pet ideas to it as usually happens.

[Kathianne]

Aside from a check from FEMA for about $2000 V4R and I have received nothing from the government. The charity and government aid goes to the persons with their hands constantly out for gimmes. Most of the people I know, if they are getting any help, are getting low cost loans. Be aware, even with insurance, the losses were so overwhelming, the insurance couldn't cover it all. And the insurance companies are dragging their feet in paying out in many cases. I am not surprised at the additions to the law though. The bill had a lot of popular sympathy attached to it so lawmakers figured out ways to attach their pet ideas to it as usually happens.

I can't speak towards everyone, nor certainly anyone's insurance details. I never was licensed in a 'hurricane state,' so take this as you will. If your homeowner's included 'replacement value' which most do. If you carried riders for basement and hurricanes and any 'required in your state riders,' you should come out ok.

IF NOt, going to have to piece together the insurance you carried at the time and hope they fed helps you out. Personally, I'd be applying for the private relief, that seems more organized.