Utopia at DP

[mundame]

Here's a Utopian idea that I think would be fun to try here: the opposite of the Steel Cage. A polite forum for only polite discussion of hot issues: race, guns, abortion, police, mass murder, whatever.

People could call names and hurt feelings and insult as usual in all the other threads and forums, but in this one "cage" people would have to discuss the issues in a totally non-hurtful, respectful manner --- OR -----------

They would get kicked out without comment by the person they insulted. If that doesn't happen because the two get into it, the thread moderator would kick out any insulter. Again, I think, without comment.

So in this one forum everyone would have moderator privileges. This may or may not be technically possible; I'm just doing utopian thinking. Hey, don't we all want that magic button that deletes someone we don't like? In this thread we'd all have it.

I was thinking that there are some people addicted to insult and snark who would be quite unable to participate in such a forum. (And Thank You, Lord!!) But that might not be the case for every problem persona. Faced with clear rules and instant feedback, some of the brighter ones might be able to follow rules better than it now looks like they could.

A protected place for people with good manners to discuss things! I think that would be really fun.

[fj1200]

:clap:

I strive for Utopia in every post but then we all know it's an unachievable ideal.

[mundame]

:clap:

I strive for Utopia in every post but then we all know it's an unachievable ideal.


IMO, you would be a dependable participant in such a forum.

[darin]

Here's a Utopian idea that I think would be fun to try here: the opposite of the Steel Cage. A polite forum for only polite discussion of hot issues: race, guns, abortion, police, mass murder, whatever.

People could call names and hurt feelings and insult as usual in all the other threads and forums, but in this one "cage" people would have to discuss the issues in a totally non-hurtful, respectful manner --- OR -----------

They would get kicked out without comment by the person they insulted. If that doesn't happen because the two get into it, the thread moderator would kick out any insulter. Again, I think, without comment.

So in this one forum everyone would have moderator privileges. This may or may not be technically possible; I'm just doing utopian thinking. Hey, don't we all want that magic button that deletes someone we don't like? In this thread we'd all have it.

I was thinking that there are some people addicted to insult and snark who would be quite unable to participate in such a forum. (And Thank You, Lord!!) But that might not be the case for every problem persona. Faced with clear rules and instant feedback, some of the brighter ones might be able to follow rules better than it now looks like they could.

A protected place for people with good manners to discuss things! I think that would be really fun.


Yay Thought-Police! :D

;)

[mundame]

Yay Thought-Police! :D

;)


No, that would be a vulnerability we'd have to design against, I agree. That is, people get to delete anyone they want, but my idea is that this deletion would be for personal insults, not for outrageous ideas. And everyone's ideas outrage someone here, so if people are deleting for that reason, Utopia would not prosper.

We can't count on human good-nature for voluntarily obeying the rules. (Humans don't have good nature; see: war and crime.) But we don't want endless moderation fights, either (Waaaaaaaahhhh!! It wasn't FAIR!).

How to devise the rules and terms so that people would only delete insulters, but not participants with opinions they hate and think are wrong? Hmmmmmmm.

[WiccanLiberal]

It's an interesting idea but I wonder how long it would bebefore someone got tossed ou of this velvet cage because disagreement on a debate topic was taken too personally. Insults, veiled or open, are historically part of many debates. Read the transcription of the Lincoln- Douglas debates. Both would have been thrown out of the environment you describe.

[mundame]

Are you saying you are comfortable with the insult climate here, or that you don't think it's possible to improve it, WiccanLiberal?

[darin]

Instead of pissy-pants-removal from threads - let's remove from threads those who rely upon, most-squarely and solidly, Logical Fallacy for their arguments. :) Instead of 'insult-based' removal, perhaps we use 'stupid-based' - as in 'That was a stupid argument, you are banned from the thread' :)

See - look, most folks today argue based on stupid logic; half-truths (see ANY mass-shooting) to outright lies (see ANY mass-shooting AND man-made global warming problem). Having a policy of "No bullshit - just debate" would force folks to differ in opinion but only after reasonable effort was made to actually LEARN about the topic being debated.

Some members claim to be skeptical of intelligent design, yet he hasn't invested enought (any?) honest research into ID to be a "skeptic". He doubts because he wants to doubt. That's uneducated-arguing; becoming a fanboi of his particular point of view.

[Voted4Reagan]

No, that would be a vulnerability we'd have to design against, I agree. That is, people get to delete anyone they want, but my idea is that this deletion would be for personal insults, not for outrageous ideas. And everyone's ideas outrage someone here, so if people are deleting for that reason, Utopia would not prosper.

We can't count on human good-nature for voluntarily obeying the rules. (Humans don't have good nature; see: war and crime.) But we don't want endless moderation fights, either (Waaaaaaaahhhh!! It wasn't FAIR!).

How to devise the rules and terms so that people would only delete insulters, but not participants with opinions they hate and think are wrong? Hmmmmmmm.

guess you want to eliminate all dissenting opinion and thought....

You seem a huge fan of censorship....

I'll stick with the first amendment... To me... free uninhibited speech is utopia.... not the PC Speak you strive for...

[Missileman]

Some members claim to be skeptical of intelligent design, yet he hasn't invested enought (any?) honest research into ID to be a "skeptic". He doubts because he wants to doubt. That's uneducated-arguing; becoming a fanboi of his particular point of view.

That's really rich coming from your keyboard. Besides, what is there to research? Unfounded statements by creationists, that "Yep, God did it!" aren't fertile research beds. The whole ID argument starts on the mother of all assumptions and devolves from there.

[WiccanLiberal]

Are you saying you are comfortable with the insult climate here, or that you don't think it's possible to improve it, WiccanLiberal?

I am comfortable with the fact that discourse here is open. Insults happen and I can ignore or answer them depending on how energetic or involved I am feeling. As for limits being an improvement, I came here from a forum that had a strict moderation policy regarding insults. Be VERY careful what you wish for.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Man has not the capacity to ever reach any kind of Utopia without divine help. Man's inherent nature, that of evil , greed and lust would simply have to be completely abolished for any Utopia to exist. And add in that would have to apply to ALL residing within that Utopia for it to exists for longer than a mere few minutes if even that long. Its been tried countless times on varying scales but never been attained.
Individuality prevents Utopia. Ordinary wants and desires prevent Utopia. Mental mood swings prevent Utopia.
EVERYTHING PREVENTS IT.

As far as striving for Utopia here at DP, what would be the point??
Just remove the D from DP and think about it. Policy.com.
The nearest that one may come to Utopia is a total and absolute dictatorship and only then it may exist solely for a single person, the dictator, that is 100% self consumed and that state of being is usually known as crazy. -;)

We are inherently flawed and Utopia for us in this state of being is simply an impossibility.
As far as interactions here go its pretty good and pretty damn tame. Expecting perfect harmony is foolish and forcing a harsher set of rules greatly diminishes FREE SPEECH! A TRULY GREAT AND EFFECTIVE WAY TO RUN OFF MEMBERS IMHO. -Tyr

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

:clap:

I strive for Utopia in every post but then we all know it's an unachievable ideal.

Serioiusly striving for the truth in every post would be better and far easier an attempt. You should give it a try.-;)-Tyr

[taft2012]

guess you want to eliminate all dissenting opinion and thought....

You seem a huge fan of censorship....

I'll stick with the first amendment... To me... free uninhibited speech is utopia.... not the PC Speak you strive for...

Yes, you'll "stick with the first amendment".... unless of course the "free uninhibited speech" happens to take the form of what someone in authority may deem (based upon the always shifting liberal standards of that particular day) to be "two schoolyard insults in a 24 hour period," or a "disambiguation of a screen name", or some other such idiotic libtard power trip.

When that happens you're jumping up and down, blowing on your little police whistle, and pointing to the "offender" demanding immediate punishment and sanctions.

Cut the shit. A few of us here *know* your act.

[jimnyc]

Oh man, mundame tries to start a thread, to discuss the possibility of a forum or set of threads, where things rise above the pettiness and fighting, where nothing but topics and views would be discussed, void of insults and such...

And the thread couldn't make it past page 1 before slowly deteriorating!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's my $.02 cents worth. It's not the board, or threads or forums that give out the negative tone. Its certain members giving off this vibe, to certain other members. And it's not the same with all... in other words, what royally annoys one person might not really bother another person. It really boils down to member to member interactions.

The board and it's staff can only do so much to help with this, short of censorship, of which route we will never take. We WILL move posts or threads that don't belong, to the cage, and allow participants to finish their fighting there. It seems like it happens so often as of late though that every other thread is some sort of fight. Quite frankly, the majority of it doesn't bother me. But the majority of it might bother another member.

This is where the ignore function comes in. If those thinking the board has a bad vibe, place those who offend you on ignore and watch the vibe get better!

Personally, I would much rather that individuals learn to interact with one another better. Think of the board as a whole and find ways to manually ignore the other person or take the upper road at times. I've tried this a million ways over the years and it ain't easy getting members to work with one another!

But everyone has the power to make a huge portion of another member disappear, with a click of a button. Very rarely is this function used. I don't like to use it either. A lot of the time it is frustration or current anger, and the ignored person ends up un-ignored. This means that the person clicking the button really doesn't "truly" want to ignore the other person. But the option is there, without censorship or the board having to get involved needlessly.

What have I learned that works best over the years? Drugs!! LOL ok, only kidding! Seriously though, take a chill pill and try not to make the person you are responding to an "enemy". People truly do get very uptight at times coming here, and I don't see why. The board is fun, and a great way to share our views with one another. We all have the power to make the board what we want for ourselves. We shouldn't let one or 2 members make us have a bad vibe about the place when we have the ability to change that so easily.

[aboutime]

Man has not the capacity to ever reach any kind of Utopia without divine help. Man's inherent nature, that of evil , greed and lust would simply have to be completely abolished for any Utopia to exist. And add in that would have to apply to ALL residing within that Utopia for it to exists for longer than a mere few minutes if even that long. Its been tried countless times on varying scales but never been attained.
Individuality prevents Utopia. Ordinary wants and desires prevent Utopia. Mental mood swings prevent Utopia.
EVERYTHING PREVENTS IT.

As far as striving for Utopia here at DP, what would be the point??
Just remove the D from DP and think about it. Policy.com.
The nearest that one may come to Utopia is a total and absolute dictatorship and only then it may exist solely for a single person, the dictator, that is 100% self consumed and that state of being is usually known as crazy. -;)

We are inherently flawed and Utopia for us in this state of being is simply an impossibility.
As far as interactions here go its pretty good and pretty damn tame. Expecting perfect harmony is foolish and forcing a harsher set of rules greatly diminishes FREE SPEECH! A TRULY GREAT AND EFFECTIVE WAY TO RUN OFF MEMBERS IMHO. -Tyr


Tyr. The only Utopia I need, happens when I am surprised each morning to wake up, and find I am still here. Followed by a day when my wife and I get to have our Five Blessings around, thanks to our son's and our daughters-in-law.
Anyone who expects to find Utopia here on a Forum...has other problems we don't need to talk about.

[jimnyc]

Let me also add this - do people REALLY need a specific forum to tell them not to fight and call names? For the most part, we have this already. We let people speak what they want, but if it gets out of hand, we'll move offending posts. If it's someone REALLY abusing others and threads, we have the ability to ban members from specific threads, which is very rarely used.

What we need, is for member to TRY HARDER to make this place better. If someone is degrading a thread, someone needs to report their offending posts, and staff will move those posts to the cage, leaving the original thread in good standing and ready for others.

This all boils down to self control and personal responsibility. This board and it's "vibe" is a direct reflection of everyone posting.

Look at how things were for a few days around Christmas. For the most part, flame and fight free and nothing but good words and wishes for one another. It's just a matter of trying.

[taft2012]

A very early candidate for the "Thread of the Year - 2013".

:clap:

Then again, maybe not, because I'm part of it.... and the DP judges just love to exclude from all of the "cool kid" stuff.

Bastards!

I'm gonna put sugar in your gas tanks....(and that's not a homosexual innuendo either)....:laugh:

[jimnyc]

^ Ya see, now FUN fighting is cool, and loosens things up!

[aboutime]

A very early candidate for the "Thread of the Year - 2013".

:clap:

Then again, maybe not, because I'm part of it.... and the DP judges just love to exclude from all of the "cool kid" stuff.

Bastards!

I'm gonna put sugar in your gas tanks....(and that's not a homosexual innuendo either)....:laugh:


taft....Just wondering. Does SPLENDA work the same as Sugar? We older folks are on Sugar, and Salt free diets. And.. Innuendo not taken!!!

[fj1200]

Serioiusly striving for the truth in every post would be better and far easier an attempt. You should give it a try.-;)-Tyr

If we were to use this thread as a test case for Mundame's idea... you would have just banned yourself as accusations that you have no ability to back up. :)

[aboutime]

If we were to use this thread as a test case for Mundame's idea... you would have just banned yourself as accusations that you have no ability to back up. :)


Thanks for proving Tyr, and Jim right 'fj'. Like an angry old, dumb bull. You just had to take advantage of this thread, instead of backing off. Just so you got the 4250 as the lone, dysfunctional person you seem to be.

[fj1200]

Thanks for proving Tyr, and Jim right 'fj'. Like an angry old, dumb bull. You just had to take advantage of this thread, instead of backing off. Just so you got the 4250 as the lone, dysfunctional person you seem to be.

:facepalm99: I'm pretty sure it was Tyr that proved Mundame correct. Nevertheless Jim pointed out how he, and apparently you, are unable to keep from stepping in it. :)

And I'm pretty sure I'm not the only dysfunctional poster here. :slap:

[aboutime]

:facepalm99: I'm pretty sure it was Tyr that proved Mundame correct. Nevertheless Jim pointed out how he, and apparently you, are unable to keep from stepping in it. :)

And I'm pretty sure I'm not the only dysfunctional poster here. :slap:


Denial is always the first step to get past.

[tailfins]

Such a "velvet cage" would be a golden opportunity to sharpen your passive-aggressive skills and your innuendo skills. Having operated in highly politically correct environments, that's what the result would be. When somebody calls you out for making a post with a double or vague meaning, you just re-iterate the non-toxic interpretation and say "I was just trying to help". A fun exercise would be to sign up on Democrat Subterranean and see how long you can get away with anti-leftist double meanings or innuendos.

[Robert A Whit]

Are you saying you are comfortable with the insult climate here, or that you don't think it's possible to improve it, WiccanLiberal?

There are a pair of women that love to insult me but I don't want them thrown out. And a couple of the men at times are the same way. I want them all to hang around.

[jimnyc]

I know I'm dysfunctional, and proud of it! :lol:

I admit I am a bastard as much as everyone else too, if not more, but I also try to make amends and friends just as much. I think EVERYONE knows when they are making a "fight" post. If EVERYONE tried to minimize a few of them, the joint would be much better off for it.

[aboutime]

I know I'm dysfunctional, and proud of it! :lol:

I admit I am a bastard as much as everyone else too, if not more, but I also try to make amends and friends just as much. I think EVERYONE knows when they are making a "fight" post. If EVERYONE tried to minimize a few of them, the joint would be much better off for it.


jim. AGREED, 100 Percent. It's more fun being dysfunctional, if not being declared Nuts as well.

I've been called nearly every weird name anyone could come up with, and I enjoy it as well.

Never, in all of my 65 years. Has any typed, written, printed word ever jumped from the page, or screen to hurt me in any way.

If someone feels an endless need to argue, or fight with me because I am NUTS. Let them go.

If I am crazy, nuts, insane...as anyone is free to declare here. That's fine with me as well.

Before DebatePolicy. I was still the same person I am now.
And being crazy hasn't stopped me from exposing all of the other CRAZIES out there who live in Denial.
So, the more the crazies, ignorant, dumb, stupid, and dysfunctional respond to my posts with their own brand of stupidity.

The better.

[Robert A Whit]

^ Ya see, now FUN fighting is cool, and loosens things up!

Indeed so long as each party realizes that would be the purpose. The problem with typed words is you can't see body language, no face, (emoticons work better than nothing) and more importantly, in person you ought to be able to read the other person since they may just have encountered something awful in their life and feelings are tender at that moment. :laugh:

[Robert A Whit]

That's really rich coming from your keyboard. Besides, what is there to research? Unfounded statements by creationists, that "Yep, God did it!" aren't fertile research beds. The whole ID argument starts on the mother of all assumptions and devolves from there.

So, are you one of those who believe in the spontaneous creation from absolutely nothing, all that we believe exists, and even more that we don't yet know of, in the universe?

That is called magic.

I don't understand why some fight so hard to dismiss God, the creator.

[Missileman]

So, are you one of those who believe in the spontaneous creation from absolutely nothing, all that we believe exists, and even more that we don't yet know of, in the universe?

That is called magic.

I don't understand why some fight so hard to dismiss God, the creator.

Do you believe that Zeus was real? Anubis? Odin? If we were to list all of the deities that have ever been worshipped and then check off which ones we believe never existed, I suspect our lists would align but for one. Before your "theory" can even be considered, the existence of god needs to be established as your "theory" hinges on it. If there is no creator, there is no creation. Unless things have changed in the last few minutes, there isn't a single shred of verifiable evidence that a creator exists. If such evidence should ever be brought forward, then your "theory" can be submitted for consideration.

[aboutime]

Why does anyone have to provide proof about how they got here?

Truth is, and not one of us can deny it.

WE are all here.

No matter what you believe, or wish to argue about.

YOU ARE HERE.

YOU GOT HERE SOMEHOW.

Why must we question everything to the point in life when there ARE NO REAL, PROVABLE ANSWERS....Either way????

We are. Therefore. We must be here. Or, wherever YOU happen to be.

Even if you can prove otherwise. WHO CARES?

[Robert A Whit]

Do you believe that Zeus was real? Anubis? Odin? If we were to list all of the deities that have ever been worshipped and then check off which ones we believe never existed, I suspect our lists would align but for one. Before your "theory" can even be considered, the existence of god needs to be established as your "theory" hinges on it. If there is no creator, there is no creation. Unless things have changed in the last few minutes, there isn't a single shred of verifiable evidence that a creator exists. If such evidence should ever be brought forward, then your "theory" can be submitted for consideration.

The names of the creator or family of creators does not matter to my point. Worship is not the word I would use.

Most that argue with me have never seen a black hole, dark energy, etc, yet they believe in such things.

However they must think all matter simply erupted from pure nothing. Alternatively, they believe all matter has always existed. Seems to me that they have not thought this through.

Look at the Earth, other planets, the Sun, then explain to me how they all arrived in the Universe with absolutely nothing in the universe to explain their creaton? (from pre universe conditions at that)

I think the proof is in plain view. I dunno, I see not magic, but the creator at work.

[tailfins]

I know I'm dysfunctional, and proud of it! :lol:

I admit I am a bastard as much as everyone else too, if not more, but I also try to make amends and friends just as much. I think EVERYONE knows when they are making a "fight" post. If EVERYONE tried to minimize a few of them, the joint would be much better off for it.

If you need me to back you up on that; I can testify that you are a drooling nutcase.

[aboutime]

I can't get my head around anyone who feels a need to deny the beauty of life we all experience. Namely. Whenever anyone questions, or suggests it is only Science, and not the work of some Invisible, Higher Being....while watching a Mother give birth to a child after suffering MORE PAIN than...I believe...any of us who call ourselves Men could ever bear.

No. You don't NEED to believe in a Higher Being. You can call yourself Agnostic, or Atheist as much as you like if it makes you feel good. But...look at all the JOY, LOVE, and WONDERMENT you are missing out on (or at least...what you brag about) by telling yourself HAVING A BABY ISN'T A MIRACLE of Nature.

Sure thing. If you are a parent. Tell yourself that as your first born opens their eyes...and see's YOUR UGLY FACE for the first time. But LOVES YOU UNCONDITIONALLY anyway.

[gabosaurus]

Better yet, why not have an unmoderated where members can do their best pissing and moaning. But if such pissing and moaning is extended out of the forum, the offending member (no, not that kind) is booted.

[revelarts]

[

Why does anyone have to provide proof about how they got here?
Truth is, and not one of us can deny it.
WE are all here.
No matter what you believe, or wish to argue about.
YOU ARE HERE.
YOU GOT HERE SOMEHOW.
Why must we question everything to the point in life when there ARE NO REAL, PROVABLE ANSWERS....Either way????
We are. Therefore. We must be here. Or, wherever YOU happen to be.
Even if you can prove otherwise. WHO CARES?
reminds me of one of my favorite Kurt Vonnegut quotes

“Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
Man got to sit and wonder 'why, why, why?
Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
Man got to tell himself he understand.”

there's a lot to that, but i do believe there somethings we can know about,
not everything but some basics...

[aboutime]

Better yet, why not have an unmoderated where members can do their best pissing and moaning. But if such pissing and moaning is extended out of the forum, the offending member (no, not that kind) is booted.


Unmoderated WHAT gabby? As for pissing and moaning. You can be our teacher. Saying nothing is a standard for you.

By the way. Jim has the forum running more smoothly...at least it was till you showed up.