Gun Violence versus Voting Patterns

[Voted4Reagan]

anyone notice a strange similarity?

http://www.kentuckyarmoryclub.com/download/file.php?id=3104&t=1&sid=974b608f07d167f023ffc62a387768d4

[Voted4Reagan]

anyone notice a strange similarity?

http://www.kentuckyarmoryclub.com/download/file.php?id=3104&t=1&sid=974b608f07d167f023ffc62a387768d4

Funny how all the major violence is in the Majority DEMOCRATIC areas....

[bingster]

anyone notice a strange similarity?

http://www.kentuckyarmoryclub.com/download/file.php?id=3104&t=1&sid=974b608f07d167f023ffc62a387768d4

You know that has to do with high population rates. If you made it a apples vs apples comparison, the colors would be reversed. gun death/1000 is much higher in red states.
Here's some links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state
http://www.statehealthfacts.org/comparemaptable.jsp?ind=113&cat=2
http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-death-rate-per-100-000
I can find plenty more. The key is measuring by rates, not number of murders, or deaths, etc....
When you look at rates, low gun laws always show higher death rates.

[logroller]

You know that has to do with high population rates. If you made it a apples vs apples comparison, the colors would be reversed. gun death/1000 is much higher in red states.
Here's some links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state
http://www.statehealthfacts.org/comparemaptable.jsp?ind=113&cat=2
http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-death-rate-per-100-000
I can find plenty more. The key is measuring by rates, not number of murders, or deaths, etc....
When you look at rates, low gun laws always show higher death rates.
Correlation is not causation; but in this case, it doesn't even correlate that well. California had the fourth highest rate of homicide (the wikilink above), 72% by firearm, despite being a blue state which bradycampaign.org hails as having the strongest gun laws in the US. I could better correlate areas with more black men having greater rates of homicide. I mean, the statistics are overwhelming; over 30 deaths by firearm per 100000 annually!!! That mean we should restrict AA men from owning firearms? I imagine few would argue that to be constitutional, its not by virtue of race that they have higher rates of violence; no more is it by virtue of having firearms-- hundreds of millions of firearms owners do not use firearms for violence. Yet its treated different...I fail to understand why people value freedom so little that, at the slightest perception of a threat, they whip out the ban stick.

[Voted4Reagan]

You know that has to do with high population rates. If you made it a apples vs apples comparison, the colors would be reversed. gun death/1000 is much higher in red states.
Here's some links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state
http://www.statehealthfacts.org/comparemaptable.jsp?ind=113&cat=2
http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-death-rate-per-100-000
I can find plenty more. The key is measuring by rates, not number of murders, or deaths, etc....
When you look at rates, low gun laws always show higher death rates.

Where do most murders occur? IN MAJOR CITIES

Where are the most stringent and restrictive gun laws? IN THE CITIES

Where did Obama get most of his votes? Cities by a 2 to 1 Margin

Which party is the majority in the Cities? Liberal Democrats/Minorities

New Orleans has a death rate of 68 per 100000 by Firearm... The Second Highest rate ON THE PLANET!

In NYC there have been 4161 murders since 2003. almost 90% of the victims were Black/Hispanic. these demographics voted 90+% for Liberals/Democrats/Obama

I'll keep going..... But you have to address the facts... It doesnt matter WHAT LAWS you pass... Criminals will always get Guns and they will use them against unarmed citizens.

How many Criminals will follow the laws BINGSTER?

Answer that question.... be honest

[logroller]

Where do most murders occur? IN MAJOR CITIES

Where are the most stringent and restrictive gun laws? IN THE CITIES

Where did Obama get most of his votes? Cities by a 2 to 1 Margin

Which party is the majority in the Cities? Liberal Democrats/Minorities

New Orleans has a death rate of 68 per 100000 by Firearm... The Second Highest rate ON THE PLANET!

In NYC there have been 4161 murders since 2003. almost 90% of the victims were Black/Hispanic. these demographics voted 90+% for Liberals/Democrats/Obama

I'll keep going..... But you have to address the facts... It doesnt matter WHAT LAWS you pass... Criminals will always get Guns and they will use them against unarmed citizens.

How many Criminals will follow the laws BINGSTER?

Answer that question.... be honest
The answer to your questions are mostly economic; as are the function of nearly all gun control measures-- artificial supply scarcity. Drive up the cost through prohibition and guns are thus limited to those with more wealth and, thus, power. This is balanced by subversive or "black" markets; a power market in itself, complementing the legitimate power takers.

these power players too benefit from the scarcity, the resulting wealth and, similarly, would seek to increase their share. Theyd be more organized atleast; paramilitary actions would replace the lone shooter scenario abhorred currently. Nevermind the mechanism of their creation being prohibition, the phantom menace will be the mafias and/cartels. Really these crime syndicates are nothing more than an adaptive response to power concentration by the "good" guys.

It's been said before, but nigh is it less relevant -- gun control isn't about guns, its about control. It's easier to control things when you can confront an organized opposition. That's what confounds the war on terror; its so darned loosely affiliated, you gotta find a way to concentrate their hostilities (ie, start a war smack dab in the middle of their support network). Same thing with politics, dems vs reps, cons vs libs; if you want to gather power, you must first take the power away from the individual, starting by stripping them of their individuality, force them into opposite corners and, presto, power is willed to the few.

[bingster]

Correlation is not causation; but in this case, it doesn't even correlate that well. California had the fourth highest rate of homicide (the wikilink above), 72% by firearm, despite being a blue state which bradycampaign.org hails as having the strongest gun laws in the US. I could better correlate areas with more black men having greater rates of homicide. I mean, the statistics are overwhelming; over 30 deaths by firearm per 100000 annually!!! That mean we should restrict AA men from owning firearms? I imagine few would argue that to be constitutional, its not by virtue of race that they have higher rates of violence; no more is it by virtue of having firearms-- hundreds of millions of firearms owners do not use firearms for violence. Yet its treated different...I fail to understand why people value freedom so little that, at the slightest perception of a threat, they whip out the ban stick.

I was, as I've done repeatedly, slapped down the myth put forth by this thread's graphic that the rate is always higher in city zones. Most of the top gun death and gun murder rates are higher in red states, not blue states. The gun laws don't fix everything, but they help.

[bingster]

4423442444264427

[bingster]

Take your pick of sources, the maps show a pattern.

[bingster]

Where do most murders occur? IN MAJOR CITIES

Where are the most stringent and restrictive gun laws? IN THE CITIES

Where did Obama get most of his votes? Cities by a 2 to 1 Margin

Which party is the majority in the Cities? Liberal Democrats/Minorities

New Orleans has a death rate of 68 per 100000 by Firearm... The Second Highest rate ON THE PLANET!

In NYC there have been 4161 murders since 2003. almost 90% of the victims were Black/Hispanic. these demographics voted 90+% for Liberals/Democrats/Obama

I'll keep going..... But you have to address the facts... It doesnt matter WHAT LAWS you pass... Criminals will always get Guns and they will use them against unarmed citizens.

How many Criminals will follow the laws BINGSTER?

Answer that question.... be honest

"How many Criminals will follow the laws BINGSTER?" is an escape from the issue.
Why make laws when criminals will just break them? Really?
Background checks are supposed to make it HARDER for criminals-you want to keep it easy?
Sick people aren't criminals. Background checks are the only answer with them.

You point out NYC? New York has one of the lowest gun death rates in the country. There is more death with more people, but the rate is lower-that's the important distinction.

[jimnyc]

You point out NYC? New York has one of the lowest gun death rates in the country. There is more death with more people, but the rate is lower-that's the important distinction.

Because it's such a highly populated area. But it's STILL full of murders, with guns, more than most places - also an important distinction.

[logroller]

Take your pick of sources, the maps show a pattern.
It's not just the source, its the methodology. As a geospatial data analyst, I work statistics for a living, and I can tell you for a fact data can be cast in a variety of ways to fit a preconceived conclusion. For now ill accept the maps you put forth; but next week ill query the justice stats, acs and census data for myself. Cross referencing things like economic health (e.g. median income, employment rate) and violence (by firearm or other). If you look at the big picture you'll see that correlation is rampant across a variety of indicators; its not as simple as, more guns=more violence. Mark twain said it best-- "there's lies, damned lies, and statistics."

[fj1200]

Take your pick of sources, the maps show a pattern.

Now do you have one that shows gun homicides?

[Voted4Reagan]

Now do you have one that shows gun homicides?

Here is one for NYC for a 9 year period.....

http://projects.nytimes.com/crime/homicides/map

Shows all 4161 homicides from 2003 up through 2011

Breaks it down by all sorts of ways....

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

It's been said before, but nigh is it less relevant -- gun control isn't about guns, its about control. It's easier to control things when you can confront an organized opposition. That's what confounds the war on terror; its so darned loosely affiliated, you gotta find a way to concentrate their hostilities (ie, start a war smack dab in the middle of their support network). Same thing with politics, dems vs reps, cons vs libs; if you want to gather power, you must first take the power away from the individual, starting by stripping them of their individuality, force them into opposite corners and, presto, power is willed to the few.

WELL SAID LOG..

And I find that to be ----EXACTLY WHAT OBAMA IS DOING !!-Tyr

[bingster]

Here is one for NYC for a 9 year period.....

http://projects.nytimes.com/crime/homicides/map

Shows all 4161 homicides from 2003 up through 2011

Breaks it down by all sorts of ways....

I think that's an awesome map, but again, it doesn't compare rates to other areas. There are a heck of a lot of murders, I'm not denying that, but when you take population into account, the rate is not as high as you think.