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Robert A Whit
03-24-2013, 12:39 PM
Given this is a crime, given against pre-puberty children, and trying to set aside emotion that may last a short time, are these two sentences fair? Bear in mind some killings get shorter sentences and the person taking the photos a female .... is this FAIR

By Steve Olafson
OKLAHOMA CITY (Reuters) - A former third-grade teacher in Oklahoma was sentenced to 45 years in prison on Friday for taking lewd photos of her young students at the behest of a retired college professor.
Kimberly Crain pleaded guilty to 19 counts of sexual exploitation of a child under 12, possessing child pornography and lewd molestation, according to District Attorney Richard Smothermon.
Crain blamed much of her actions on retired Pennsylvania college professor Gary Doby, whom she described as an "online love interest" who urged her to provide him photos of her students at the grade school in McLoud, a small town 30 miles east of Oklahoma City.
Doby, 66, who had met Crain in the 1970s when he taught at Oklahoma Baptist University, was sentenced to life in prison in January.
In a letter to the court, Crain also cited depression, menopause and an inattentive husband for her actions.
Crain, 50, will not be eligible for parole until she is 87 because she must serve 85 percent of her sentence, said Smothermon.
"This literally shook the community to its core," Smothermon said. "She was trusted and beloved by the community."
(Editing by Corrie MacLaggan and Andrew Hay)

Noir
03-24-2013, 12:46 PM
It's hard to tell based on the little info given, a lot would depend on the pictures themselves.

red states rule
03-24-2013, 12:50 PM
"19 counts of sexual exploitation of a child under 12, possessing child pornography and lewd molestation"

Sounds like a light sentence to me. Of course the cons inside take a dim view of anyone who hurts kids. They may have a sentence of their of they will want to impose

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
03-24-2013, 12:50 PM
Given this is a crime, given against pre-puberty children, and trying to set aside emotion that may last a short time, are these two sentences fair? Bear in mind some killings get shorter sentences and the person taking the photos a female .... is this FAIR

By Steve Olafson
OKLAHOMA CITY (Reuters) - A former third-grade teacher in Oklahoma was sentenced to 45 years in prison on Friday for taking lewd photos of her young students at the behest of a retired college professor.
Kimberly Crain pleaded guilty to 19 counts of sexual exploitation of a child under 12, possessing child pornography and lewd molestation, according to District Attorney Richard Smothermon.
Crain blamed much of her actions on retired Pennsylvania college professor Gary Doby, whom she described as an "online love interest" who urged her to provide him photos of her students at the grade school in McLoud, a small town 30 miles east of Oklahoma City.
Doby, 66, who had met Crain in the 1970s when he taught at Oklahoma Baptist University, was sentenced to life in prison in January.
In a letter to the court, Crain also cited depression, menopause and an inattentive husband for her actions.
Crain, 50, will not be eligible for parole until she is 87 because she must serve 85 percent of her sentence, said Smothermon.
"This literally shook the community to its core," Smothermon said. "She was trusted and beloved by the community."
(Editing by Corrie MacLaggan and Andrew Hay)

Damn sure not fair at all!!!!!!

I

SAY


THIS


BECAUSE


THEY


SHOULD


HAVE


SHOT BOTH THE DAMN SCUM!!!!!!

jimnyc
03-24-2013, 12:52 PM
"lewd molestation"? Pictures alone of children deserve a LONG sentence, but if there was molesting as well? Toss away the key, man or woman.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
03-24-2013, 12:58 PM
It's hard to tell based on the little info given, a lot would depend on the pictures themselves.

I READ ENOUGH INFO. They were found guilty and the sentences given were far too lenient IMHO..

These were deviant, perverted adults sexually abusing children, they both should have been shot full of holes....

red states rule
03-24-2013, 12:59 PM
I READ ENOUGH INFO. They were found guilty and the sentences given were far too lenient IMHO..

These were deviant, perverted adults sexually abusing children, they both should have been shot full of holes....

I do wish all 50 states pas Jessica's Law and toss anyone who hurts kids into jail for a long long time.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
03-24-2013, 01:11 PM
"lewd molestation"? Pictures alone of children deserve a LONG sentence, but if there was molesting as well? Toss away the key, man or woman.

Not enough. Shoot the damn scum... after being found guilty with no possibility of innocence !
I'd volunteer the gun and ammo myself..
Texas rangers when too far away from headquarters used to hang some of the outlaws when those outlaws were caught redhanded engaging in crime that carried the death penalty ..

If we had just a bit of that now a damn lot of this crap would stop. The problem is it could never be given authority above a local level as abuse would occur too often due to politics being played with it. Only a very dedicated and small well proven group of lawmen could ever be given such power.
Possibly only the exact conditions that existed then in Texas would ever justify it..-Tyr

Noir
03-24-2013, 01:13 PM
Looking up some more details on the story the teacher took pics of the kids in their underwear and video'd them while getting changed (ie nude) though as far as i can see not child was actually touched.
Both criminals will die in jail, i'd say that's a fair result, and when the judge put the terms to the families of the children, they did not contest.

jimnyc
03-24-2013, 01:38 PM
Looking up some more details on the story the teacher took pics of the kids in their underwear and video'd them while getting changed (ie nude) though as far as i can see not child was actually touched.
Both criminals will die in jail, i'd say that's a fair result, and when the judge put the terms to the families of the children, they did not contest.

I wonder what the legal definition of molesting would be? I'll have to look it up. I assumed that meant touching, at the least. Ok, now I see, the term "molestation" is given to many crimes. This isn't the code from where this story is located, but I assume this example is similar:


"16-6-4. Child molestation; aggravated child molestation.

A person commits the offense of child molestation when he or she does any immoral or indecent act to or in the presence of or with any child under the age of 16 years with the intent to arouse or satisfy the sexual desires of either the child or the person.

A person convicted of a first offense of child molestation shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than five nor more than 20 years. Upon such first conviction of the offense of child molestation, the judge may probate the sentence; and such probation may be upon the special condition that the defendant undergo a mandatory period of counseling administered by a licensed psychiatrist or a licensed psychologist. However, if the judge finds that such probation should not be imposed, he or she shall sentence the defendant to imprisonment; provided, further, that upon a defendant's being incarcerated on a conviction for such first offense, the Department of Corrections shall provide counseling to such defendant. Upon a second or subsequent conviction of an offense of child molestation, the defendant shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than ten years nor more than 30 years or by imprisonment for life; provided, however, that prior to trial, a defendant shall be given notice, in writing, that the state intends to seek a punishment of life imprisonment. Adjudication of guilt or imposition of sentence for a conviction of a second or subsequent offense of child molestation, including a plea of nolo contendere, shall not be suspended, probated, deferred, or withheld.

A person commits the offense of aggravated child molestation when such person commits an offense of child molestation which act physically injures the child or involves an act of sodomy.

A person convicted of the offense of aggravated child molestation shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than ten nor more than 30 years. Any person convicted under this Code section of the offense of aggravated child molestation shall, in addition, be subject to the sentencing and punishment provisions of Code Sections 17-10-6.1 and 17-10-7."

http://definitions.uslegal.com/c/child-sexual-molestation/

Robert A Whit
03-24-2013, 04:15 PM
"19 counts of sexual exploitation of a child under 12, possessing child pornography and lewd molestation"

Sounds like a light sentence to me. Of course the cons inside take a dim view of anyone who hurts kids. They may have a sentence of their of they will want to impose

I dunno. By the time she can get out of prison, at age 87, do you really think she is a risk to kids? And the professor or teacher, he is in for life.

I am ultra sympathetic to the children. And hate people who do such things to those kids. But I suspect this is revenge of the legal system more than fair. I wondered what others thought.

If she was in lock up for say 10 years, would you not suspect she was going to learn not to do that?

We put humans into cages like animals and then we sort of laugh about it and say they deserve death or life in prison. But what is prison for? Some ask if it is to rehabilitate Well, clearly that is not the case for her or the guy also in lockup. They are just in cages left until they die.

Those kids will be middle aged people when she is 87.

Robert A Whit
03-24-2013, 04:24 PM
Not enough. Shoot the damn scum... after being found guilty with no possibility of innocence !
I'd volunteer the gun and ammo myself..
Texas rangers when too far away from headquarters used to hang some of the outlaws when those outlaws were caught redhanded engaging in crime that carried the death penalty ..

If we had just a bit of that now a damn lot of this crap would stop. The problem is it could never be given authority above a local level as abuse would occur too often due to politics being played with it. Only a very dedicated and small well proven group of lawmen could ever be given such power.
Possibly only the exact conditions that existed then in Texas would ever justify it..-Tyr

Wow. I read all replies. I can see all of you are loaded with emotion. The reason we have higher courts is to prevent the violence the common citizen would lash out on criminals. I understand all of the replies. I feel emotionally just the way you all feel. Toss them in a dungeon and make sure they get horse whipped each week. Beat them to hell.

Make them suffer.

But we lose sight in my view of what the purpose of justice is. Those children will be middle age if this woman is released and at her very old age, she may have Alzheimer She would have it easier if as some of you say, shoot her and the man who is in another state. He got life for his part. The other state came down on him very hard and no doubt he will die in prison.

If I knew the actual details of the molestation and the photos took, I might too want to shoot them like dogs. I dunno. The jury must have seen all the evidence. At the moment, lacking more facts, I have to side with the Juries in both cases.

Robert A Whit
03-24-2013, 04:29 PM
This by Jim is what I personally figured was a fair sentence.


16-6-4. Child molestation; aggravated child molestation.

A person commits the offense of child molestation when he or she does any immoral or indecent act to or in the presence of or with any child under the age of 16 years with the intent to arouse or satisfy the sexual desires of either the child or the person.

A person convicted of a first offense of child molestation shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than five nor more than 20 years. Upon such first conviction of the offense of child molestation, the judge may probate the sentence; and such probation may be upon the special condition that the defendant undergo a mandatory period of counseling administered by a licensed psychiatrist or a licensed psychologist. However, if the judge finds that such probation should not be imposed, he or she shall sentence the defendant to imprisonment; provided, further, that upon a defendant's being incarcerated on a conviction for such first offense, the Department of Corrections shall provide counseling to such defendant. Upon a second or subsequent conviction of an offense of child molestation, the defendant shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than ten years nor more than 30 years or by imprisonment for life; provided, however, that prior to trial, a defendant shall be given notice, in writing, that the state intends to seek a punishment of life imprisonment. Adjudication of guilt or imposition of sentence for a conviction of a second or subsequent offense of child molestation, including a plea of nolo contendere, shall not be suspended, probated, deferred, or withheld.

A person commits the offense of aggravated child molestation when such person commits an offense of child molestation which act physically injures the child or involves an act of sodomy.

A person convicted of the offense of aggravated child molestation shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than ten nor more than 30 years. Any person convicted under this Code section of the offense of aggravated child molestation shall, in addition, be subject to the sentencing and punishment provisions of Code Sections 17-10-6.1 and 17-10-7."