Islamberg, USA . The Muslim Only Town Where Residents Learn Guerilla Warfare Tactics

[taft2012]

http://itmakessenseblog.com/2013/04/21/islamberg-usa-the-muslim-only-town-where-residents-learn-guerilla-warfare-tactics/

Islamberg, located in rural upstate New York, is a 70 acre underground-bunkered paramilitary Islamic compound. Here within the compound lives a Muslim only community. The majority of these are black american born males, hardened criminals who converted to radical Islam whilst serving time in state prison. It is also the headquarters of Muslims of the Americas, the International Quranic Open University and the United Muslim Christian Forum. Islamberg is the best known among 35 such compounds, ranging in size from 25 to 300 acres, that already dot 22 states across America. Evidence suggests these Islamic compounds and the convicted criminals who live there are participating in jihad training and using crime to raise funds.

Islamberg and the other ‘Muslim only towns’ and these organizations are led by a radical cleric in Pakistan named Sheikh Mubarak Ali Gilani. He is the leader of Pakistani terrorist organization Jamaat al Fuqra . Muslim shoe bomber Richard Ried allegedly was heavily influenced by the group and its leader Gilani.

And Syed Mubarak Ali Shah Gilani is the man whose Al Qaeda links Daniel Berg, the Wall Street Journal reporter, was investigating and on his way to interview in Pakistan as arranged in 2002 when he was betrayed and eventually beheaded. Pakistani police arrested Syed Mubarak Ali Shah Gilani after Berg’s murder.

Away from their eyes, however, Islamberg, which is located near the reservoir that supplies most of New York City’s drinking water, and the other MOA compounds in America train recruits in firearms usage, bomb making and guerilla warfare , as Syed Mubarak Ali Shah Gilani declared in a recruiting video that was not intended for non-Muslim audiences:


“We give [our recruits] specialized training in guerilla warfare. We are at present establishing training camps. You can easily reach us at Open Quranic offices in upstate New York or in Canada or in South Carolina or in Pakistan.” – Syed Mubarak Ali Shah Gilani


In 2001, ATF Special Agent Thomas P. Gallagher testified in court that “Individuals from the organization [Muslims of the Americas] are trained in Hancock, N.Y., and if they pass the training in Hancock, N.Y., are then sent to Pakistan for training in paramilitary and survivalist training by Mr. Gilani.”

[aboutime]

http://itmakessenseblog.com/2013/04/21/islamberg-usa-the-muslim-only-town-where-residents-learn-guerilla-warfare-tactics/

Islamberg, located in rural upstate New York, is a 70 acre underground-bunkered paramilitary Islamic compound. Here within the compound lives a Muslim only community. The majority of these are black american born males, hardened criminals who converted to radical Islam whilst serving time in state prison. It is also the headquarters of Muslims of the Americas, the International Quranic Open University and the United Muslim Christian Forum. Islamberg is the best known among 35 such compounds, ranging in size from 25 to 300 acres, that already dot 22 states across America. Evidence suggests these Islamic compounds and the convicted criminals who live there are participating in jihad training and using crime to raise funds.

Islamberg and the other ‘Muslim only towns’ and these organizations are led by a radical cleric in Pakistan named Sheikh Mubarak Ali Gilani. He is the leader of Pakistani terrorist organization Jamaat al Fuqra . Muslim shoe bomber Richard Ried allegedly was heavily influenced by the group and its leader Gilani.

And Syed Mubarak Ali Shah Gilani is the man whose Al Qaeda links Daniel Berg, the Wall Street Journal reporter, was investigating and on his way to interview in Pakistan as arranged in 2002 when he was betrayed and eventually beheaded. Pakistani police arrested Syed Mubarak Ali Shah Gilani after Berg’s murder.

Away from their eyes, however, Islamberg, which is located near the reservoir that supplies most of New York City’s drinking water, and the other MOA compounds in America train recruits in firearms usage, bomb making and guerilla warfare , as Syed Mubarak Ali Shah Gilani declared in a recruiting video that was not intended for non-Muslim audiences:


“We give [our recruits] specialized training in guerilla warfare. We are at present establishing training camps. You can easily reach us at Open Quranic offices in upstate New York or in Canada or in South Carolina or in Pakistan.” – Syed Mubarak Ali Shah Gilani


In 2001, ATF Special Agent Thomas P. Gallagher testified in court that “Individuals from the organization [Muslims of the Americas] are trained in Hancock, N.Y., and if they pass the training in Hancock, N.Y., are then sent to Pakistan for training in paramilitary and survivalist training by Mr. Gilani.”


Taft. ALSO...something rarely mentioned. Probably intentionally these days is. How such facilities are also located in Northern Virginia, not too distant from the Maryland, and Washington DC corridor.
In fact. What has been identified for tax purposes as Schools, are actually called (sp)Madrassa. Much like a school setting in recent years where the Girl students DIED because they were forced to remain Inside due to not having their heads covered.
But here in the U.S. Our Obama government tends to LOOK THE OTHER WAY...intentionally, and ignores such things because WE ALL KNOW..if we pay attention, and believe Obama. THERE IS NO MORE TERROR to worry about since OBL was killed. Problem solved!

[hjmick]

Everyone needs a hobby...

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Taft. ALSO...something rarely mentioned. Probably intentionally these days is. How such facilities are also located in Northern Virginia, not too distant from the Maryland, and Washington DC corridor.
In fact. What has been identified for tax purposes as Schools, are actually called (sp)Madrassa. Much like a school setting in recent years where the Girl students DIED because they were forced to remain Inside due to not having their heads covered.
But here in the U.S. Our Obama government tends to LOOK THE OTHER WAY...intentionally, and ignores such things because WE ALL KNOW..if we pay attention, and believe Obama. THERE IS NO MORE TERROR to worry about since OBL was killed. Problem solved!

You mean the incident where the girls were burned alive locked in that school because they were not allowed to flee the fire due to their heads being uncovered!!


2002 Mecca girls' school fire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Mecca_girls'_school_fire)


<cite style="color: rgb(0, 153, 51); font-style: normal; font-size: 14px !important;">en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Mecca_girls'_school_fire</cite>
Nine of the dead girls were Saudis; the rest were from Chad, Egypt, Guinea, Niger, ...The majority of the deaths occurred when a staircase collapsed as the girls ... not allow the girls to escape or to be saved from the fire because they were "not .... the burningbuilding and hindered rescue workers because the girls were not ...





BBC News | MIDDLE EAST | Saudi police 'stopped' fire rescue (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/1874471.stm)


<cite style="color: rgb(0, 153, 51); font-style: normal; font-size: 14px !important;">news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/1874471.stm</cite>
Mar 15, 2002 – Saudi Arabia's religious police are accused of stopping schoolgirls leaving a blazing building because they were not wearing Islamic dress. ... young girlsto prevent them from leaving the school because they were not wearing the abaya". ...Families of the victims have been incensed over the deaths.





Saudi Journalist: Religious Police Made 15 School Girls Burn to ... (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/01/18/saudi-journalist-religious-police-made-15-school-girls-burn-to-death-because-they-were-not-wearing-hijabs/)


<cite style="color: rgb(0, 153, 51); font-style: normal; font-size: 14px !important;">www.theblaze.com/.../saudi-journalist-religious-police-mad...</cite>

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by Tiffany Gabbay (https://plus.google.com/113503540270437324785) - in 57 Google+ circles

Jan 18, 2012 – ... 15 School Girls Burn to Death Because They Were Not Wearing Hijabs ... because they were not wearing their hijabs (traditionalIslamic head coverings). .... The girls probably thought of themselves as being Good Muslims, ...


<tbody>
http://news.bbc.co.uk/furniture/nothing.gif
Friday, 15 March, 2002, 12:19 GMTSaudi police 'stopped' fire rescue

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1870000/images/_1874471_schoolap_300.jpg<small>The Mecca city governor visited the fire-damaged school </small>


Saudi Arabia's religious police stopped schoolgirls from leaving a blazing building because they were not wearing correct Islamic dress, according to Saudi newspapers.In a rare criticism of the kingdom's powerful "mutaween" police, the Saudi media has accused them of hindering attempts to save 15 girls who died in the fire on Monday.
About 800 pupils were inside the school in the holy city of Mecca when the tragedy occurred.


<tbody>
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1870000/images/_1874471_ambulance_ap150.jpg<small>15 girls died in the blaze and more than 50 others were injured</small>




</tbody>
According to the al-Eqtisadiah daily, firemen confronted police after they tried to keep the girls inside because they were not wearing the headscarves and abayas (black robes) required by the kingdom's strict interpretation of Islam.One witness said he saw three policemen "beating young girls to prevent them from leaving the school because they were not wearing the abaya"


^^^^^^ This insanity!!!!!!! Is Islam!!!!!! -Tyr



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</tbody>

[jafar00]

If this is even real, why hasn't it been closed down and those involved arrested?

[aboutime]

If this is even real, why hasn't it been closed down and those involved arrested?

As if you would bother answering jafar. Reality is. Because people like Obama, and his Democrat friends are AFRAID of insulting, offending, or making people like you MAD.
If they pay attention to what their FRIENDS are doing. It would spoil of of THEIR FRIENDS plans to destroy this nation.
You should know that. Look at how you feel about America.

[jimnyc]

If this is even real, why hasn't it been closed down and those involved arrested?

Hell, they allows this crap in quite a few Islamic countries, why not here? I don't see a whole lot being done to stop these types of things in those countries, unless of course it's the USA doing so, and even then it's complained about.

You be the judge as to the reality of the article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamberg,_New_York

[Abbey Marie]

If this is even real, why hasn't it been closed down and those involved arrested?

Because we are a litigious, profile-hating, Christian-phobic, ACLU-driven country full of people who have their heads in the sand.

[Little-Acorn]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2009/03/23/quiet-muslim-only-town-in-ny-founded-by-alleged-terrorist/

[jimnyc]

Here is some more "proof" that this garbage exists on our soil.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/6Ub00iSWcxk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[jimnyc]

In this day and age, with terrorism around the world, and we know who committing 95% of them, they shouldn't allow such a place to operate. IF they are in fact "training", simply sweep the place and send them home to train on their own soil.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

In this day and age, with terrorism around the world, and we know who committing 95% of them, they shouldn't allow such a place to operate. IF they are in fact "training", simply sweep the place and send them home to train on their own soil.

Hear that bullshit lie from the bastard? Kids from the city come here to shoot off a few rounds of 22 caliber rifles. I stopped watching after that damn lie . They didn't see any bunkers because they were not shown any.
Place should be leveled to the ground. Give those traitors 48 hours to leave, the ones that stay can be fertilizer.
America had better wake up to the sleepers just waiting for the time to strike and murder all non-muslims. Closed to the public for 25 years and yet nothing goes on there, right...-Tyr

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Apparently Google has scrubbed all links to the subject of muslim strongholds in USA, muslim neighborhoods in USA, muslim training camps in USA etc.

I USED TO BE ABLE TO GET MANY LINKS ON THE SUBJECT WHEN RESEARCHING BUT NOW I GET ALL TOPICS REGARDING FOREIGN LOCATIONS ,NOTHING IN USA..

TYPICAL OF THE LIBERAL DUMBASSES AT GOOGLE , THE PC BASTARDS. -Tyr

[aboutime]

Hear that bullshit lie from the bastard? Kids from the city come here to shoot off a few rounds of 22 caliber rifles. I stopped watching after that damn lie . They didn't see any bunkers because they were not shown any.
Place should be leveled to the ground. Give those traitors 48 hours to leave, the ones that stay can be fertilizer.
America had better wake up to the sleepers just waiting for the time to strike and murder all non-muslims. Closed to the public for 25 years and yet nothing goes on there, right...-Tyr


All of this is the stuff Obama and his faithful, voting followers pretend...DOES NOT EXIST in America.
Not to mention how places like Islamberg thrive because Obama, and his followers...most of whom are, or have been
confined to Federal Prisons, where this faith has grown. And Obama would prefer everyone who worships HIM, stay quiet.
Americans generally DO NOT CARE about such things because Obama, and the Democrats have convinced millions of UNEDUCATED Americans that GOVERNMENT is their only Salvation.

[jafar00]

In this day and age, with terrorism around the world, and we know who committing 95% of them, they shouldn't allow such a place to operate. IF they are in fact "training", simply sweep the place and send them home to train on their own soil.

I agree 100%. If they are involved in illegal activities, they need to be arrested and locked up.

I do not agree with sending them "home" to train on their own soil. Sending radicalised youth off to be further corrupted by the Taliban is a recipe for disaster. It would be better for them to be re-educated about Islam to renounce any radical and immoral teaching they may have received.

[taft2012]

Because we are a litigious, profile-hating, Christian-phobic, ACLU-driven country full of people who have their heads in the sand.

Yeah, that's basically it.

In New York I think no one wants to touch it because we've allowed similar Jewish Defense League (JDL) camps to exist for decades without interference. It would open up a can of worms in terms of campaign donations, influence peddling, special considerations granted, etc. The rest of the country's collective head would spin if it could see some of the special treatment tight-knit Jewish communities receive.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Yeah, that's basically it.

In New York I think no one wants to touch it because we've allowed similar Jewish Defense League (JDL) camps to exist for decades without interference. It would open up a can of worms in terms of campaign donations, influence peddling, special considerations granted, etc. The rest of the country's collective head would spin if it could see some of the special treatment tight-knit Jewish communities receive.

How many of those Jews are engaged in terrorist acts against us?
How many have murdered none believers-infidels and knocked down entire buildings ?
People are rightly treated good or bad in accordance with the actions they take.
Islam is a political ,quasi military religious cult and deserves far worse treatment than what it has received so far. It deserves to be put on a round the clock 24/7 watch and investigate list in regards to terrorism (ONLY), not in regards to other classifications. -Tyr

[aboutime]

Do we all see how someone like jafar succeeds here?

Look at how he has managed to PIT each of us, against one-another. While idiots like jafar sit back, and applaud their success.

Anyone who falls for the jafar BS deserves to be included in the jafar, Islamic war against us.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Do we all see how someone like jafar succeeds here?

Look at how he has managed to PIT each of us, against one-another. While idiots like jafar sit back, and applaud their success.

Anyone who falls for the jafar BS deserves to be included in the jafar, Islamic war against us.

My post to Taft is not me being against him.
It is me simply asking important questions and noting the IMPORTANCE of treating people in accordance to the actions they take. Islam wages a war against all of us left and right while they court the dumbass Libs/Leftists. The dumbass American Libs/Leftists fall right in with them because they share a great common goal== destruction of USA.

Taft noted the Jews were allowed special preferences already and I noted it was a reward for how they acted regardless of the rightness of it or not. That Islam should not get that treatment and should get the opposite for it's war being waged upon us was also noted by me.

I come from a heritage of warriors /fighters , it's in my nature to want to fight my enemies, my nation's enemies.
I have no greater enemy than Islam!!!
Will die with no greater enemy--911 taught me that and I unlike so many others will never forgive or forget! Give me an army and I'd destroy Iran and every other Muslim terrorist stronghold in the world.

"fkk 'em , feed 'em fishheads"!!-Tyr

[jimnyc]

I agree 100%. If they are involved in illegal activities, they need to be arrested and locked up.

I do not agree with sending them "home" to train on their own soil. Sending radicalised youth off to be further corrupted by the Taliban is a recipe for disaster. It would be better for them to be re-educated about Islam to renounce any radical and immoral teaching they may have received.

Without ammo and such, certain activities might not be unlawful. Nonetheless, I don't want terrorists being trained here, even if in its infancy stage, which is probably radical brainwashing too.

[aboutime]

My post to Taft is not me being against him.
It is me simply asking important questions and noting the IMPORTANCE of treating people in accordance to the actions they take. Islam wages a war against all of us left and right while they court the dumbass Libs/Leftists. The dumbass American Libs/Leftists fall right in with them because they share a great common goal== destruction of USA.

Taft noted the Jews were allowed special preferences already and I noted it was a reward for how they acted regardless of the rightness of it or not. That Islam should not get that treatment and should get the opposite for it's war being waged upon us was also noted by me.

I come from a heritage of warriors /fighters , it's in my nature to want to fight my enemies, my nation's enemies.
I have no greater enemy than Islam!!!
Will die with no greater enemy--911 taught me that and I unlike so many others will never forgive or forget! Give me an army and I'd destroy Iran and every other Muslim terrorist stronghold in the world.

"fkk 'em , feed 'em fishheads"!!-Tyr


Tyr. I totally agree with you. And, at the same time. Recognize how our Government grants special treatment to Democrats, and yes. Even Native Americans. No disrespect intended here. But that is the truth. So, who draws the line on those Special Preferences???

[jafar00]

Without ammo and such, certain activities might not be unlawful. Nonetheless, I don't want terrorists being trained here, even if in its infancy stage, which is probably radical brainwashing too.

Ammo or not, isn't sedition illegal in the US?

[Marcus Aurelius]

Ammo or not, isn't sedition illegal in the US?

http://law.jrank.org/pages/2028/Sedition-Domestic-Terrorism-Sedition-First-Amendment.html


With respect to false statements critical of the government, the Court has announced that "under the First Amendment there is no such thing as a false idea. However pernicious an opinion may seem, we depend for its correction not on the conscience of judges and juries but on the competition of other ideas" (Gertz v. Robert Welch, Inc., 418 U.S. 323, 339–340 (1974)). Moreover, although false statements of fact about a governmental official may give rise to a civil or criminal action for libel, the Court has held that such actions require proof that the speaker acted either with knowledge of falsity or with reckless disregard for the truth (New York Times Co. v. Sullivan, 376 U.S. 254 (1964)).

Finally, the Court has held that mere criticism of government may not be suppressed. The First Amendment permits punishment of seditious utterances only if they expressly advocate immediate unlawful action and are likely to produce such action imminently (Brandenburg v. Ohio, 395 U.S. 444 (1969)). In effect, the Court's affirmation of our "profound national commitment to the principle that debate on public issues should be uninhibited, robust, and wide-open" renders the traditional crime of seditious libel unconstitutional (New York Times Co., 270).



Read more: Sedition and Domestic Terrorism - Sedition And The First Amendment - Court, Seditious, False, and York - JRank Articles (http://law.jrank.org/pages/2028/Sedition-Domestic-Terrorism-Sedition-First-Amendment.html#ixzz2RQ4jaTtb) http://law.jrank.org/pages/2028/Sedition-Domestic-Terrorism-Sedition-First-Amendment.html#ixzz2RQ4jaTtb



If this can be proven against one of these schools, then action can be taken.

[aboutime]

Ammo or not, isn't sedition illegal in the US?


Why don't you come up here jafar, and find out for yourself whether it is illegal?
That is, if you have an ounce of courage to do so.
But since you hide behind the Tell-Tale, Pretend Shield of IGNORE. Only you know what the result would be.

[taft2012]

How many of those Jews are engaged in terrorist acts against us?
How many have murdered none believers-infidels and knocked down entire buildings ?
People are rightly treated good or bad in accordance with the actions they take.
Islam is a political ,quasi military religious cult and deserves far worse treatment than what it has received so far. It deserves to be put on a round the clock 24/7 watch and investigate list in regards to terrorism (ONLY), not in regards to other classifications. -Tyr

I understand and appreciate all of that amigo.

I was not drawing an equivalency between the motives of Jews vs. Muslims. I was agreeing with Abbey that government will be compelled to treat the two groups equally.

[tailfins]

Hell, they allows this crap in quite a few Islamic countries, why not here? I don't see a whole lot being done to stop these types of things in those countries, unless of course it's the USA doing so, and even then it's complained about.

You be the judge as to the reality of the article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamberg,_New_York

Any thoughts as to what might happen if one were to pay this place a visit? It's in New York, how much trouble could it be to see for yourself?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I understand and appreciate all of that amigo.

I was not drawing an equivalency between the motives of Jews vs. Muslims. I was agreeing with Abbey that government will be compelled to treat the two groups equally.




Taft2012 (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?2285-taft2012)
http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/statusicon/user-offline.png
Senior Member , "I understand and appreciate all of that amigo."

Thanks, knew that part amigo... just wanted it on record for others to consider..-Tyr

I agree as far as the religious aspect they must be treated the same bit in regards to terrorist activity they should not be treated the same.

We simply must stop allowing the Islamic terrorist to use religion as a shield!

We must stop allowing their allies (dems/libs/leftists) forcing us to not profile the damn group doing the deeds! It is liberal insanity and those people are just as much responsible for the deaths inflicted by the murdering jihadist as are the jihadist.
Those people are responsible for that precious little 8 year old boys death along with the damn scum that murdered him!
First one of them that starts talking their appeasing shat to my face I will give just one chance by commanding the dam fool to shut his ignorant piehole. If he continues then I will stomp his ass immediately! That is a damn promise. Tyr

disclaimer: my promise posted above is about no member of this forum. It is about liberal/leftist asshats in the general population. Most of which have at least enough sense to stay well clear of me.
I've had 'em at parties rush out of the room to flee my wrath. I make 'em look exactly like the cowardly , ignorant punks they all are. Fact.

[tailfins]

disclaimer: my promise posted above is about no member of this forum. It is about liberal/leftist asshats in the general population. Most of which have at least enough sense to stay well clear of me.


Why? Have you not bathed for awhile?

[jimnyc]

Why don't you come up here jafar, and find out for yourself whether it is illegal?
That is, if you have an ounce of courage to do so.
But since you hide behind the Tell-Tale, Pretend Shield of IGNORE. Only you know what the result would be.

Stop with the personal shit and fighting, this is the very last warning. We don't need crap like this in all the threads.

[aboutime]

Stop with the personal shit and fighting, this is the very last warning. We don't need crap like this in all the threads.


JIM. Would you prefer, in instances like this. That we begin every post with 'TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN'?

This is not fighting. This is what I call DEFENDING our nation in the only way I know. To remain silent, and play along is what is wrong with most of the uninformed Americans in this nation. The enemy loves it when we STAY SILENT.
I see jafar as an enemy of America. This is a forum YOU created for members to speak their mind, or give their opinions.
That is what I have done.

[jimnyc]

JIM. Would you prefer, in instances like this. That we begin every post with 'TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN'?

This is not fighting. This is what I call DEFENDING our nation in the only way I know. To remain silent, and play along is what is wrong with most of the uninformed Americans in this nation. The enemy loves it when we STAY SILENT.
I see jafar as an enemy of America. This is a forum YOU created for members to speak their mind, or give their opinions.
That is what I have done.

Nope, I would just prefer some back off with the hatred and non-stop personal feuds. One can fully disagree with Jafar, even passionately, without taking it to a personal level. That's all I'm asking.

[Drummond]

Nope, I would just prefer some back off with the hatred and non-stop personal feuds. One can fully disagree with Jafar, even passionately, without taking it to a personal level. That's all I'm asking.

Speaking just for myself, I am busily making a career out of disagreeing with Jafar ... I find myself discovering a 'wealth' of material which makes it all too easy.

The best approach, though, is one I strive for. Namely, the dissection of an argument which I believe doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Either this is possible, or it isn't. If I have material I can call upon to back me, so much the better.

That said, though, and being mindful of what you intend, Jim ... I'd still say that I appreciate Aboutime's position. His is one of motivation which stems from great love of country. I wish to make clear that I have the utmost respect for this .. and I believe we should acknowledge the nobility of that motivation.

[jimnyc]

Speaking just for myself, I am busily making a career out of disagreeing with Jafar ... I find myself discovering a 'wealth' of material which makes it all too easy.

The best approach, though, is one I strive for. Namely, the dissection of an argument which I believe doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Either this is possible, or it isn't. If I have material I can call upon to back me, so much the better.

That said, though, and being mindful of what you intend, Jim ... I'd still say that I appreciate Aboutime's position. His is one of motivation which stems from great love of country. I wish to make clear that I have the utmost respect for this .. and I believe we should acknowledge the nobility of that motivation.

I understand his frustration or anger, but it's still possible to remain above the fray. I've been reading your posts since you became a member here. I know you're not a card carrying member of Islam. But I think you've generally remained polite/cordial while you remained passionate and steadfast in your beliefs.

[tailfins]

Stop with the personal shit and fighting, this is the very last warning. We don't need crap like this in all the threads.

You're expecting a bunch of grumpy old men to stop being grumpy. This ought to be good. :popcorn:

[jimnyc]

You're expecting a bunch of grumpy old men to stop being grumpy. This ought to be good. :popcorn:

Nope, the grumpy are free to congregate in the steel cage if they must. :)

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Why? Have you not bathed for awhile?

Not bathing ? Are you accusing me of being a Muslim? :laugh:
A great many of them are surrounded by sand with water in very, very short supply. They do not bath regularly. Myself, taking many very nice long hot showers is routine I abide by.
How is the water supply in your neck of the woods?
I trust it is adequate.... or was the water problem on your mind a personal one?-;)--Tyr