A thought piece

[fj1200]

Which health care system would be better; our current model (before or after ACA doesn't particularly matter for these purposes) or a full boat single-payer system that unloads health care responsibilities (except for a payroll tax a la Social Security and Medicare) from business and consumer?

*for these purposes an ideal, fully market-based system is not an option or legislatively possible.

[Kathianne]

I don't like caveat regarding 'legislation.' Really the government shouldn't be legislating health care. It certainly doesn't preclude testing of meds, though they truly haven't done a great job, too many instances of serious problems after 'extensive' mandated testing. Many more drugs that should be on the market, such as orphan drugs, but never get the chance because of expense and numbers available for trials.

With that said, no single payer. In spite of what I said, unless a judicial miracle happens, that is inevitably what we'll have, by the very nature of the problems Obamacare will cause in a cross section of markets.

[fj1200]

I don't like caveat regarding 'legislation.' Really the government shouldn't be legislating health care. It certainly doesn't preclude testing of meds, though they truly haven't done a great job, too many instances of serious problems after 'extensive' mandated testing. Many more drugs that should be on the market, such as orphan drugs, but never get the chance because of expense and numbers available for trials.

With that said, no single payer. In spite of what I said, unless a judicial miracle happens, that is inevitably what we'll have, by the very nature of the problems Obamacare will cause in a cross section of markets.

I don't disagree with any of that but would SP be better than present because of the absolutely horrible job of "regulating" that government has done trying to come up with a mix and tempering the "failures" of the free market?

[Missileman]

I don't disagree with any of that but would SP be better than present because of the absolutely horrible job of "regulating" that government has done trying to come up with a mix and tempering the "failures" of the free market?

The government can't even handle little things without bungling and everything government run is rife with fraud, waste, and abuse. To give them reign over the healthcare of 350 million people (and all the money that entails) is courting disaster.

[tailfins]

Which health care system would be better; our current model (before or after ACA doesn't particularly matter for these purposes) or a full boat single-payer system that unloads health care responsibilities (except for a payroll tax a la Social Security and Medicare) from business and consumer?

*for these purposes an ideal, fully market-based system is not an option or legislatively possible.

The current system is better. For an illustration, fill out a Canadian Income Tax return for an income of $100K. See what the difference is for a US tax return. Then add $2 for each gallon of gasoline you purchase in a year. Will the difference cover the $18-20K you would spend for family cash health insurance policy? You can re-do the illustration for a single person. My guess is that the extra deductions would pay for much of the difference between individual and family policies.

[red states rule]

We see how well government manages Medicare and Medicaid. The cost is soaring and I believe Medicare has a higher denial rate then any of the private ins companies

[Kathianne]

I don't disagree with any of that but would SP be better than present because of the absolutely horrible job of "regulating" that government has done trying to come up with a mix and tempering the "failures" of the free market?

My point exactly. It was you however that premised the question on legislation on control being presumed. With that as a given, SP system will follow.

If we don't want that, change has to come. The problem is though, that Act passed and now only the courts are left for any possibility and it's a very small hope.

[aboutime]

Which health care system would be better; our current model (before or after ACA doesn't particularly matter for these purposes) or a full boat single-payer system that unloads health care responsibilities (except for a payroll tax a la Social Security and Medicare) from business and consumer?

*for these purposes an ideal, fully market-based system is not an option or legislatively possible.


You could have much more easily saved asking such a question by simply telling all of us. HOW MUCH you support Obamacare.

[Missileman]

You could have much more easily saved asking such a question by simply telling all of us. HOW MUCH you support Obamacare.

You do this again and again and again, and I'll wager a month's wages you can't link to a single post of fj1200 that shows support for Obamacare.

[red states rule]

http://thedailydose.com/lll/archives/2010-march-21-new-healthcare.jpg

[fj1200]

My point exactly. It was you however that premised the question on legislation on control being presumed. With that as a given, SP system will follow.

If we don't want that, change has to come. The problem is though, that Act passed and now only the courts are left for any possibility and it's a very small hope.

I only premised it that way to keep everyone here from stating that the best solution is less government involvement which of course is true, just not the trend we're witnessing. As far as ACA, yes it's passed and there are a couple of challenges left, I think the best hope is for it to gain the image of being so bad that even low information Americans will begin to see the direction it's sending us and Republicans can educate voters enough to know why the conservative option is better.


You could have much more easily saved asking such a question by simply telling all of us. HOW MUCH you support Obamacare.

:rolleyes:

[red states rule]

http://www.moonbattery.com/Socialized_Medicine.jpg

[aboutime]

You do this again and again and again, and I'll wager a month's wages you can't link to a single post of fj1200 that shows support for Obamacare.


I don't care what you wager. Mind your own business. I wasn't talking to you. No need for any links when it's obvious. If you don't like that. I still don't care. How bout turnabout?

Post a link...if you like, that tell's us different.

[Missileman]

I don't care what you wager. Mind your own business. I wasn't talking to you. No need for any links when it's obvious. If you don't like that. I still don't care. How bout turnabout?

Post a link...if you like, that tell's us different.

I don't care if you weren't talking to me, I AM talking to you. The endless stream of bullshit accusations that you can't back up are part of the problem currently afflicting the board. And protest all you want, your refusal to back up your bullshit is nothing more than proof that you CAN'T.

[aboutime]

I don't care if you weren't talking to me, I AM talking to you. The endless stream of bullshit accusations that you can't back up are part of the problem currently afflicting the board. And protest all you want, your refusal to back up your bullshit is nothing more than proof that you CAN'T.


If you say so. Fine with me. I still don't care what you think, or say. Pot. Or, are you Kettle?

You overdosed on BS. Don't lay that crap on me.

[Robert A Whit]

Which health care system would be better; our current model (before or after ACA doesn't particularly matter for these purposes) or a full boat single-payer system that unloads health care responsibilities (except for a payroll tax a la Social Security and Medicare) from business and consumer?

*for these purposes an ideal, fully market-based system is not an option or legislatively possible.

You ruled out all of my options.

[Robert A Whit]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by aboutime http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=637453#post637453)
I don't care what you wager. Mind your own business. I wasn't talking to you. No need for any links when it's obvious. If you don't like that. I still don't care. How bout turnabout?

Post a link...if you like, that tell's us different.


I don't care if you weren't talking to me, I AM talking to you. The endless stream of bullshit accusations that you can't back up are part of the problem currently afflicting the board. And protest all you want, your refusal to back up your bullshit is nothing more than proof that you CAN'T.

Gracias.

[red states rule]

The bottom line is, why would anyone think the government could do anything cheaper and more efficient then the private sector

If you can find the same servive in the Yellow Pages - the government should not be offering it as well

[fj1200]

You ruled out all of my options.

That was part of the idea. :) I was thinking that in some respects the government has done such a bad job at regulating the monster that they created, decades ago, that just going full boat Socialism would in some respects be better than where we're at. Of course there are multitudes of different models out there so it would in some respects depend on which one chosen but the US is too diverse and fragmented and Congress is so utterly stupid, as an institution, that a single-payer model would take the worst of what we have and add in more of the worst of the new ideas, ACA, that the nightmare would only increase.

*holy run-on sentence batman.

[aboutime]

The bottom line is, why would anyone think the government could do anything cheaper and more efficient then the private sector

If you can find the same servive in the Yellow Pages - the government should not be offering it as well


red states rule. The Liberal, Democrat, Progressive, Leftist, Socialist, Communist members who call themselves Americans would never accept any Form of Capitalism over government control of their lives. Because that would mean. A requirement to be Personally Responsible for their actions...as directed by someone else. Since their educational challenges will not permit them to be held accountable for their own FOOLISH actions, words, thoughts, or bodily functions.