PDA

View Full Version : Israel, - way to noneexistence



Alik Bahshi
06-23-2013, 03:58 AM
Alik Bahshi


One justice - the basis of victories.
Violence - the source of misfortunes and troubles.
Nizami

In 2002, SaudiArabia made a peace initiative:
- All the Arab countries recognize the state of Israel,
Israel frees-occupied territory, does not prevent thereturn of Palestinian refugees, the status of East Jerusalem the capital ofPalestine gets.
(The fact that even a recognized occupation hawk as formerIsraeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon.)

Israel rejectedthe offer. One would think that might be best to put an end to half a centuryof Arab-Israeli conflict. But, alas, Israel chose war, a war that neither todaynor in the future, you can not win, and the witness of the sad reality thattends to deteriorate alarmingly for Israel.
The long peace talks, initiated by the Madrid PeaceConference presented the Palestinians a waste of time. Prime Minister Rabin wasa victim of politics, in which lurks the principle of "peace in exchangefor territory." Melted Palestinian hopes for an independent state.Question of the return of millions of Palestinian refugees and the remainingissues. Construction of Jewish settlements in the occupied territoriescontinued. Prime Minister Barak, who supports the Oslo Agreements, generallyrefused to consider the status of Jerusalem. A provocative and demonstrativeascent to the Temple Mount (the Arab shrine), the then opposition leader, ArielSharon, revealed his intentions in the matter of the status of Jerusalem.Intifada. Palestinians have returned to its original state prior to thenegotiations, and saw their future only in the struggle with Israel. Undeclaredwar, which have long been used as the Arabs and Jews, has found new life. Nomilitary action of Israel in retaliation in response to Palestinian terroristattacks and launches from Gaza imperfect homemade rockets which have apsychological impact than destructive, failing. Gaza has become a swamp, likeLebanon, from which Israel was chosen for 20 years. The Government of Israelhas found a solution in the construction of a concrete wall around the occupiedterritory, which is more like a huge prison with no roof. Isolation ofPalestinians in the concrete bag looks like a very action of a State, pursuinga policy of apartheid. Another thing, if the construction of the wall reflectthe mutual agreement on the state border between Jews and Palestinians, but,unfortunately, there is no such agreement, and the location of the wall onlygrants the territory annexed by Israel, emphasizing the aggressive intentionsagainst the Arabs, and most importantly, the wall will the value of another,more create, obstacles to peace.

Palestiniansdoomed to failure in the negotiations with Israel has meant that after theelections in the Palestinian Authority the power was in the hands of theradicals of Hamas. This is to be expected, really, from the point of view ofthe Palestinians, is that the endless negotiations are useless for occasionalappearances under American pressure, because today's Israel is not interestedin the emergence of a Palestinian state. And for America's Middle EastArab-Israeli conflict is purely internal use between the Jewish lobby and theAmerican political elite, because in fact no political, and especially economicuse from political and military alliance with Israel, no.

The inevitablecosts of such a policy, it is a double standard: on the one hand, Americanplanes bombed Belgrade for his reluctance to grant freedom to the people of theformer Yugoslavia, on the other hand, Washington blocks UN Security Councilresolution condemning Israeli military actions in the occupied Palestine. Andjust to maintain, much tarnished international image, America rarely pulls hisally from the excessive use of force in a slow, permanent war with "armedto the teeth" with stones and flying scraps pipes (rocket"Qassam" - the Palestinian version of the missile) by Palestinians,among other things, in response to the firing homing missiles from F-16, usethe least accurate, human bombs. Significant superiority of the Israelites inthe quantity and quality of arms offset high moral motivation Palestinians.

There is awar and each side uses the weapons available. Israel fully owns all operationalspace, at any time, in any place of autonomy may appear tank"Merkava" and fired on a crowd of Palestinians, and after the hugetank size armored bulldozer leveled the house in which he lived an allegedterrorist. With the F-16 and "Apache" produced the so-called"point" the elimination not only of leaders of armed resistance, butits spokesmen. For example, Sheikh Yassin (Hamas ideologue), the patient feebleold man who spent many years in an Israeli prison and set free, probably in thehope that poor health would not allow him to continue to call on Palestiniansto resist, in the end "point eliminated" launched from an aircraftrocket. But the result was quite the opposite - Hamas won the elections in theautonomy. Do you think perhaps depriving ideologue life, to kill the idea.Arrested all those involved in the resistance movement, including members ofthe Government of the Palestinian Authority. But all in vain, the Palestinians,regardless of the enormous losses and hardship continue resistance, which cannot be suppressed, the only thing that has not been used by Israel in Gaza - isnapalm, carpet bombing and the atomic bomb. The question naturally arises, thePalestinians have received napalm, do not be such a major deterrent factortoday, as world opinion? On the other hand, more of its military arsenal,Israel can take to win and end the war, if not in this war have such anopportunity - to win.

Infinite intime and, more importantly in this case, Israel's inconclusive war is a clearillustration of the fact that the people who wants to be free, you can not win.The Palestinians have no army that could crush, no military targets that couldbe destroyed, they have nothing at all, but only the land and the people, thepeople who dug into the land, and no deprivation, no power can , to tear themfrom the land.

So, all thehard-initiated peace talks due in the first place, White House policy, has cometo a logical impasse, out of which only the Palestinians in the war. In a warthat has become an attribute, but rather a way of life, and death, so to speak,because it forced the premature death - a common thing in the life of autonomy.The threat of death does not stop the Arabs of Gaza to run "Qassam"towards the nearest Israeli cities. Unable to prevent the attacks, the Israeliarmy operates on a vendetta, striking at random Palestinian homes, and mainlyat night. In response to the targeted killings and arrests of Palestinians,like moles, Breakthrough underground passage to the roadblock, managed to capturean Israeli soldier. Palestinians offer to exchange captive on in Israeli jailsArabs, was categorically rejected. And Israel, in revenge for a daring raid andthe capture of a soldier, once again subjected to a brutal bombardment ofPalestinians. Here we have the name of the place, because the release of theabducted in this way is impossible.

Following theGaza Palestinians no less audacious plan implemented Hezbollah kidnapped twoIsraeli soldiers on its northern border. On offer to exchange the soldiers forLebanese prisoners Israel responded with the blessing of the Bush war. Bushprobably naively thought that things are going, what we needed, and nowHezbollah is finished. However, the Second Lebanon unexpectedly for the Jewsand the Americans was a complete failure.
It seems that all it touches Bush is doomed to failure.Given all the political activity of Bush as president, Americans should be putup in front of the White House and posters in public places, "Do not dothat Bush" in order to protect him from further errors before the end oftenure.

As is the casein Gaza to release captured soldiers failed, but Hizbolla, contrary toexpectations, came up to the war, and confirmation that the winner of theIsraeli parliamentary committee to recognize the failure of the Second Lebanonwar Israel. She initially could not be successful. Rescue from captivityIsraeli soldiers blown war foolish idea. Managed only to draw districts ofBeirut in ruins under which killed women and children, who, apparently toreport Israeli generals and Hezbollah militants are active. But it was such asenseless murder and multiplies Hizbullah.
Israel has no future without peace with its Arabneighbors. However, because of the unwillingness to make territorial concessions,rejecting the possibility of peace with the Arabs, and relying on militaryforce, Israel recklessly abandons peace initiative proposed by the influentialArab country. It would seem that fate itself offers a chance for the future.But .... Here is this "No" is the explanation. And it is not indisbelief Arabs, after all, the distrust is no reason for continuing the war,but in a much more complex, hidden from the view of the surface conditions.

In my view,the political situation in Israel form the somewhat unique, you can say almostparadoxical factors:

- Jews in America, more than in the country of the Jewsand Israel American Jewish influence on political life in Israel is enormous.In addition, their political activity, supported by well-capitalized, has atremendous impact on the policy of America itself. The Jewish lobby in the U.S.Congress - this is truly another Government of Israel, whose interests for thislobby have a higher priority than the interests of the U.S. itself. For example,if America was originally on the Arab side, the political situation during theCold War on a global scale would have been different, that is, in military andeconomic terms, in relation to the Soviet bloc, America and Europe got asignificant advantage and managed to avoid many of the world's problems, whichare available today.

- American Jews, most of them more right than IsraeliJews, much of it has already got used to the idea of ​​the inevitability of theformation of a Palestinian state. Interestingly, Jews who had left Israel for abetter life, being away from uncomfortable Israeli reality, so overflowingpatriotism (overseas) and the fierce hatred of the Arabs, which, in theiraggression, but only on television, literally ready to napalm burn Gaza andresent any Government concessions to Israel of Palestinian autonomy, accusinghim of excessive liberalism and softness to the Arabs. The opinion of this partof American Jewry to influence policies of the Israeli government.

Certainly, asignificant support to the Israeli right has the clerical part of the Jewishcommunity, which collects a lot of foreign currency for their needs. Inaggravation of the situation around the Arab-Israeli conflict is a greatcontribution made by the settlers. It is for the most part came from the U.S.religious immigrants, descendants of shtetl Jews who decided to revive theancient times in Palestine. In America, to carry out such undertaking, cut offfrom civilization by barbed wire, problem, but the Israeli-occupied territoriesis the best fit for this case of nostalgia.

These obviousfacts and hidden power of the right wing in Israel, whose adherents are adanger not only that they are willing to aggression, until the assassination ofPrime Minister (Yitzhak Rabin), but welcome any aggravation of theinternational situation. It must be confessed, for example, some of them wereglad of the catastrophe for Sept. 11 and the ensuing political mistake Bush'sact of retaliation. They do not want to see a permanent war between Jews andArabs and the collapsed skyscrapers "twins", explaining the tragedyin New York suddenly for no where the legend of the international Islamicterrorism, and allegedly started the war of civilizations. Naturally such nonsensewas not expressed by any official policy and no military action on a globalscale have not begun. Only those who supported the idea, and probably initiatedit - is the Kremlin, which severely inhibits the desire for freedom of theChechen people.

In the world,many people practice Islam, but only the Arabs, and not all are in a state ofwar with the Jews and their allies and the cause of this war, not thedifference of religion. Would not it be chronic Palestinian problem would notexist and Bin Laden. Mimicking the actions of Putin in the Caucasus, Bush wantsto soak Bin Laden, but even if that happens, the leader of Al-Qaeda will nodoubt become another of its members. Al-Qaeda - an ideology, not religious,what it try to present interested parties. First of all, Bin Laden came fromSaudi Arabia, the most in the religiously orthodox Sunni Muslim country, whichhe had to leave because there the prosecution authorities. Furthermore, BinLaden had nothing to do with the Shiite regime in Tehran obscurantist, or hecould hide in the reach of America, Iran, and not among the Pashtun tribes ofAfghanistan or Pakistan. At the heart of the confrontation of Iran and al-Qaedawith the United States are different political reasons, it is political, notreligious. Spiritual elite of the Islamic Republic of Iran is fully aware thatthe world's democracies are a major threat to their power, and America, insupport of which once relied reformist Iranian society shahinshah Mohammad RezaPehlivi is their main ideological opponent.

Al-Qaeda - itis purely a political paramilitary organization dedicated to the fight againstAmerica and its allies - the main culprit, according to bin Laden in thePalestinian-Israeli conflict. To neutralize al-Qaeda, it is necessary to removethe cause of the occurrence, namely to solve the Palestinian problem, returnSyria Gollan and agree on a permanent state border with Lebanon.

The problem ofthe Arab-Israeli conflict is very skillfully exploit Tehran's policy and notbecause of a great love for the Arabs, with whom they were at war for eightyears (remember the war in Iraq), and to represent America as the enemy ofIslam and the Muslim world. Terms of the overall Islamic front against theWestern civilization - or delusions, or a special political provocation and aconvincing argument in the wrong opinion about the religious background of thepolicy of Tehran, Iran is an alliance with the Christian countries of Russiaand Armenia against the Turkic countries of the Caucasus and Central Asia.Particularly illustrative of "United Islamic Front" is the massacreof Sunnis and Shiites in Iraq, who have used the intervention of America, itcan be said of Christians, to bring together, accumulated during SaddamHussein's dictatorship, religious accounts.

The legend ofan international Islamic terrorism against Western civilization are theimperial forces of Russia and Jewish policies of America and Israel, havehighly political goals.

Despite theoverwhelming military superiority of Jews over Palestinians real situation inthe future is not in favor of Israel. Hope for eternal superiority in militarypower over the Arabs a dangerous delusion. Israel - a country dependent andit's clear that without American military and economic aid in a hostileenvironment did not last long. Even the presence of nuclear weapons does notguarantee security, because in the case of use in such a limited area theaterfatal radiation pierce-Israel. If the American taxpayer came into our heads notto pour more dollars into the Middle East sand, the most likely picture isanything but rosy.

The Israelieconomy is not able to sustain the costs of war. All modern weapons Israelreceives from its U.S. ally. Now imagine that the U.S. stop the supply of armsand funding of Israel. Outcome in this case is unambiguous - Israel as thestate ceases to exist, because the war there and then simmer. Israel, ofcourse, will initially hold back pressure Arabs turn to ruins Damascus, Cairo,destroy the Aswan Dam, but soon run out of material of war. There are no spareparts for U.S. aircraft, missiles and bombs, finally, cannon fodder, too, has alimited number of (especially when you consider that many Israelis have dualcitizenship). The few dozen atomic bombs, which will be used to deter fanaticalArab hordes, cause radiation damage to the region, because they have cast awayin the inner circle. Instead of manna for Israel not left residents spilledradioactive rain. That is the ugly prospect that awaits Israel in the event offailure of American support for Israel.

Do not takethe chance of peaceful solution, the Israeli right, unwittingly exacerbated thesituation, and the rise to power of the radical Hamas was inevitable. IfArafat, who recognized Israel in part of the territory of the former PalestineMandate, the Israelis imprisoned in his office, not wanting to deal with him,now, whether they like it or not, they have to deal with Hamas, does reject theright of Jews to the State. It is a sad fact forced Israel quickly buildrelationships with Yasser Arafat's Fatah, providing access to frozen foreigncurrency funds and allowing international humanitarian organizations toestablish supply Food and Drug Authority.

Hamas had toappear on the political battlefield to Israel hastened to make concessions tothe Palestinians, until a hint of agreement on the proclamation of EastJerusalem as the capital of Palestine. However, while all the important only inwords, but in this circumstance, one conclusion - fright before growingradicalization among Palestinians.

It is likelythat Bush already established tradition of the White House at the end of histerm, when the Jewish lobby is unable to respond quickly to the President'sdecision, will take political pressure on Israel, but because of lack of time,this pressure will be more symbolic than effective .

Still, thecurrent situation around the state of Israel as a historic, disappearing intothe depths of centuries and linked to the fate of the Jewish people,explanation. In "The People's fate or each cricket to his last," Isuggested that the fate of any of the people connected with his mentality, thecharacter of the people, because the people are different even at the geneticlevel, and the mentality is hereditary. No matter where he was the Roma peoplein accordance with their mentality will lead his a characteristic way of beingcreative, and certainly not in contrast to the Anglo-Saxons. The fate of thepeople must acquire the mentality of the people and their direct fatal sense,it was originally destined. If Gypsies provide land and say, treat it, live onit, then I'm sure the next day you will not find them there. Gypsies are notself-sufficient people have a different way of being.
Israel as a Jewish state was revived thanks to the moneyand the desire of the Jewish people to have their own country, and in the areawhere the Jews as a compact living of the people, almost was not. Prophet Moseswarned his tribe from the worship of the Golden Calf. Unfortunately, eitherthen or later, that charge is left without proper obedience. Gold not growcorn. And in order to grow grain, we need not only his own land, but also theirsweat.
Jewish money acquired in the Diaspora, in the conditionsof life among the nations. It would seem that if the six million American Jewsand will be repatriated to Israel, which would have changed significantly thedemographic ratio in favor of the Jews, whether you will be safe, but rather tore-create ways to make money, as it was in America? That is the question. Inshort, who will milk cows on Saturdays? Here we must take into account thatwithout the Jewish lobby in America that there is also thanks to the moneyIsrael would lose political and economic support. To maintain the state ofIsrael in a hostile environment? Over the past fifty years, Israel has failedto normalize relations with the neighboring states. In this case, the best wayis to keep American Jews in America, but then it will be essential and unavoidablefactor in this case - the process of assimilation. Again, the issue of loss ofpower the Jewish lobby is a matter of time.

It turns outthat the only way to preserve Israel as a state - is peace with the Arabs andthe indispensable condition - Bread grow their own hands and not rely on helpGalut. Is it possible? I'd love to, that I am wrong, connecting with thementality of the people's fate.

Voted4Reagan
06-23-2013, 05:04 AM
Alik Bahshi

In 2002, SaudiArabia made a peace initiative:
- All the Arab countries recognize the state of Israel,
Israel frees-occupied territory, does not prevent thereturn of Palestinian refugees, the status of East Jerusalem the capital ofPalestine gets.


Alik Bahshi...


At present, a total of 32 United Nations member states do not recognise the State of Israel: 18 of the 22 members of the
Arab League: Algeria, Bahrain, Comoros, Djibouti, Iraq, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia, United Arab Emirates, and Yemen; a further 11 members of Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organisation_of_Islamic_Cooperation): Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Brunei, Chad, Guinea, Indonesia, Iran, Malaysia, Mali, Niger, and Pakistan; and Bhutan, Cuba, and North Korea.[11] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_Israel#cite_note-usres-11)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_Israel

in 1947, David Ben Gurion offered Peace and Cooperation between Arabs and Israelis. The Arabs rejected it...

From his speech..... Last Paragraph

http://www.mideastweb.org/bg1947.htm

"Come what may, we will not surrender our right to free Aliyah, to rebuild our shattered Homeland, to claim statehood. If we are attacked, we will fight back. But we will do everything in our power to maintain peace, and establish a Cupertino gainful to both. It is now, here and now, from Jerusalem itself, that a call must go out to the Arab nations to join forces with Jewry and the destined Jewish State and work shoulder to shoulder for our common good, for the peace and progress of sovereign equals."

jafar00
06-24-2013, 12:47 AM
Alik Bahshi...


At present, a total of 32 United Nations member states do not recognise the State of Israel: 18 of the 22 members of the
Arab League: Algeria, Bahrain, Comoros, Djibouti, Iraq, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia, United Arab Emirates, and Yemen; a further 11 members of Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organisation_of_Islamic_Cooperation): Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Brunei, Chad, Guinea, Indonesia, Iran, Malaysia, Mali, Niger, and Pakistan; and Bhutan, Cuba, and North Korea.[11] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_Israel#cite_note-usres-11)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_Israel

in 1947, David Ben Gurion offered Peace and Cooperation between Arabs and Israelis. The Arabs rejected it...

From his speech..... Last Paragraph

http://www.mideastweb.org/bg1947.htm

"Come what may, we will not surrender our right to free Aliyah, to rebuild our shattered Homeland, to claim statehood. If we are attacked, we will fight back. But we will do everything in our power to maintain peace, and establish a Cupertino gainful to both. It is now, here and now, from Jerusalem itself, that a call must go out to the Arab nations to join forces with Jewry and the destined Jewish State and work shoulder to shoulder for our common good, for the peace and progress of sovereign equals."




More David Ben Gurion quotes for ya...


It seems 10 years before that, he wasn't quite so friendly about moving into other people's homes.

"We must expel Arabs and take their places."
-- David Ben Gurion, 1937, Ben Gurion and the Palestine Arabs, Oxford University Press, 1985.

And he knew there was going to be a fight..

"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves ... politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country."
-- David Ben Gurion, quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan's "Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.

And many more quotes from Ben Gurion and other Israeli leaders gloating over the fact that they took what was not theirs to take and proceeded to try and wipe out anything to do with a Palestinian identity.

aboutime
06-24-2013, 09:44 PM
At Present, June 24, 2013. Several members of DP do not recognize 'jafar' as a viable member of the human race. So. Jafar is also NONEXISTENT.

Voted4Reagan
06-24-2013, 10:15 PM
More David Ben Gurion quotes for ya...


It seems 10 years before that, he wasn't quite so friendly about moving into other people's homes.

"We must expel Arabs and take their places."
-- David Ben Gurion, 1937, Ben Gurion and the Palestine Arabs, Oxford University Press, 1985.

And he knew there was going to be a fight..

"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves ... politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country."
-- David Ben Gurion, quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan's "Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.

And many more quotes from Ben Gurion and other Israeli leaders gloating over the fact that they took what was not theirs to take and proceeded to try and wipe out anything to do with a Palestinian identity.

That was 10 years before statehood.... they changed their positions to one asking for Cooperation... not Combat.

Men Change... as evidenced by Mr. Ben Gurions speech of 1947.

oh....Chomsky while he was raised Jewish is a well known Anti-Semite... not a reliable source on anything dealing with Israel.

Marcus Aurelius
06-24-2013, 10:30 PM
this guy is a spammer, posting the exact same stuff on multiple boards...

http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/13990-Israel-way-to-nonexistence

(http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/13990-Israel-way-to-nonexistence)I'd also be willing to bet that if IP's were compared, Tell-tale and this guy match. Just a hunch.

gabosaurus
06-24-2013, 10:59 PM
At Present, June 24, 2013. Several members of DP do not recognize 'jafar' as a viable member of the human race. So. Jafar is also NONEXISTENT.

Your ignorance is absolutely appalling. I feel sorry for everyone that you force your presence on. Please do not breed.

Alik Bahshi
06-25-2013, 04:17 AM
this guy is a spammer, posting the exact same stuff on multiple boards...

http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/13990-Israel-way-to-nonexistence

(http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/13990-Israel-way-to-nonexistence)I'd also be willing to bet that if IP's were compared, Tell-tale and this guy match. Just a hunch.

This topic is also in Russian in the original (http://www.proza.ru/2008/03/23/506), so what's the crime? I understand you, this topic brings displeasure, so do not read, take care of your nerves, and you more than anyone else here acts, and reasoned opposing on me from you and has not seen.

Marcus Aurelius
06-25-2013, 06:50 AM
This topic is also in Russian in the original (http://www.proza.ru/2008/03/23/506), so what's the crime? I understand you, this topic brings displeasure, so do not read, take care of your nerves, and you more than anyone else here acts, and reasoned opposing on me from you and has not seen.

English is not your strong point I see.

Alik Bahshi
06-25-2013, 07:54 AM
English is not your strong point I see.

You just now noticed that? That's good for me. But still, I apologize for my English.

Voted4Reagan
06-25-2013, 08:31 AM
You just now noticed that? That's good for me. But still, I apologize for my English.

Are you going to ignore the points I made above ALIK BAHSHI? or will you continue to just ignore them because you dont wish to discuss the issue?

jimnyc
06-25-2013, 09:03 AM
in 1947, David Ben Gurion offered Peace and Cooperation between Arabs and Israelis. The Arabs rejected it...


"We must expel Arabs and take their places."
-- David Ben Gurion, 1937, Ben Gurion and the Palestine Arabs, Oxford University Press, 1985.

"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves ... politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country."
-- David Ben Gurion, quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan's "Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.

I will take those quotes at face value, Jafar. But wouldn't the offer of peace 10 years later be more important? They were offered peace, and rejected it. Similar to Palestine today, and the Hamas charter, refusing peace and refusing any peace negotiations. Oh, and the talk of Jew blood. Keep turning down peace and offers to talk, it mainly and primarily only hurts Palestine when this happens. Eventually they will fully cease to exist.

jimnyc
06-25-2013, 09:06 AM
this guy is a spammer, posting the exact same stuff on multiple boards...

http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/13990-Israel-way-to-nonexistence

(http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/13990-Israel-way-to-nonexistence)I'd also be willing to bet that if IP's were compared, Tell-tale and this guy match. Just a hunch.


This topic is also in Russian in the original (http://www.proza.ru/2008/03/23/506), so what's the crime? I understand you, this topic brings displeasure, so do not read, take care of your nerves, and you more than anyone else here acts, and reasoned opposing on me from you and has not seen.


Are you going to ignore the points I made above ALIK BAHSHI? or will you continue to just ignore them because you dont wish to discuss the issue?

It's cool to post articles that one writes to multiple places. Some want more discussion and some just want their writing out there. But I will be curious as to the last point from V4R, as to whether or not Alik will discuss the articles he writes/posts.

Alik Bahshi
06-25-2013, 10:18 AM
Alik Bahshi...


At present, a total of 32 United Nations member states do not recognise the State of Israel: 18 of the 22 members of the
Arab League: Algeria, Bahrain, Comoros, Djibouti, Iraq, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia, United Arab Emirates, and Yemen; a further 11 members of Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organisation_of_Islamic_Cooperation): Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Brunei, Chad, Guinea, Indonesia, Iran, Malaysia, Mali, Niger, and Pakistan; and Bhutan, Cuba, and North Korea.[11] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_Israel#cite_note-usres-11)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_Israel

in 1947, David Ben Gurion offered Peace and Cooperation between Arabs and Israelis. The Arabs rejected it...

From his speech..... Last Paragraph

http://www.mideastweb.org/bg1947.htm

"Come what may, we will not surrender our right to free Aliyah, to rebuild our shattered Homeland, to claim statehood. If we are attacked, we will fight back. But we will do everything in our power to maintain peace, and establish a Cupertino gainful to both. It is now, here and now, from Jerusalem itself, that a call must go out to the Arab nations to join forces with Jewry and the destined Jewish State and work shoulder to shoulder for our common good, for the peace and progress of sovereign equals."



The problem is that the Israeli right does not want to accept the thesis of two states for two peoples, and divide Jerusalem, and this is in the charter of the Likud Party. By the way I talked about this in "Israel, and the simple truth."

Marcus Aurelius
06-25-2013, 10:48 AM
The problem is that the Israeli right does not want to accept the thesis of two states for two peoples, and divide Jerusalem, and this is in the charter of the Likud Party. By the way I talked about this in "Israel, and the simple truth."

did a search on 'Israel, and the simple truth' on Google. First thing that comes up is a post on Debate Politics, where it appears you were banned. Why is that?

Alik Bahshi
06-25-2013, 11:10 AM
did a search on 'Israel, and the simple truth' on Google. First thing that comes up is a post on Debate Politics, where it appears you were banned. Why is that?

Do not really like it all, it is a known fact. In the vigilance needs lie, and therefore banned. I tried to put the theme of "Israel and the simple truth" here, but failed, probably for the same reason. And the subject is here: http://www.politicalforum.com/middle-east/277515-israel-simple-truth.html

Marcus Aurelius
06-25-2013, 11:14 AM
Do not really like it all, it is a known fact. In the vigilance needs lie, and therefore banned. I tried to put the theme of "Israel and the simple truth" here, but failed, probably for the same reason. And the subject is here: http://www.politicalforum.com/middle-east/277515-israel-simple-truth.html

So, you claim you were banned because other people lied?

jimnyc
06-25-2013, 11:22 AM
I tried to put the theme of "Israel and the simple truth" here, but failed, probably for the same reason.

I'm not sure what you're referring to, but you're free to post whatever it is you're referring to, and in no way have you been restricted here. But based on the other site that Marcus pointed to, I just have to ask - are all of your posts your own writing? I've assumed it was, but I have to ask.

Alik Bahshi
06-25-2013, 11:23 AM
So, you claim you were banned because other people lied?


I would argue that some people do not like the truth, including visible and someone from the administration of a forum, that's the reason for the closure of access to the forum.

Marcus Aurelius
06-25-2013, 11:35 AM
I would argue that some people do not like the truth, including visible and someone from the administration of a forum, that's the reason for the closure of access to the forum.

based on a quick review of said other forum, I'd say it was more likely that they got tired of you posting 2,000 word diatribes without actually discussing anything. but hey, that's just me.

Discussions are 'always' welcome here. dozens of posts of 2,000 words speeches without actual discussion, meh... not so much. But again, that's just my opinion.

Gaffer
06-25-2013, 11:46 AM
I'm not sure what you're referring to, but you're free to post whatever it is you're referring to, and in no way have you been restricted here. But based on the other site that Marcus pointed to, I just have to ask - are all of your posts your own writing? I've assumed it was, but I have to ask.

It seems you have frequently asked him if these are his own writings and he has yet to answer.

All I'm seeing is an arab shrill trying to pass off wordy posts as historical documentation. And no discussion.

aboutime
06-25-2013, 12:09 PM
Jim. I did a Google search with the first paragraph, and found...it has been copied from Wikipedia.
Here is the link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Peace_Initiative

aboutime
06-25-2013, 12:11 PM
It seems you have frequently asked him if these are his own writings and he has yet to answer.

All I'm seeing is an arab shrill trying to pass off wordy posts as historical documentation. And no discussion.


Gaffer. I suspect that will not happen since I believe, I have found the source in Wikipedia online using Google search.

Here is the link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Peace_Initiative

Voted4Reagan
06-25-2013, 12:25 PM
The problem is that the Israeli right does not want to accept the thesis of two states for two peoples, and divide Jerusalem, and this is in the charter of the Likud Party. By the way I talked about this in "Israel, and the simple truth."


Actually...Israel offered peace and cooperation. Ben Gurions speech said this...

"Now, if ever, we must do more than make peace with them; we must achieve collaboration and alliance on equal terms. Remembering what Arab delegations from Palestine and its neighbors say in the General Assembly and in other places, talk of Arab-Jewish amity sounds fantastic, for the Arabs do not wish it, they will not sit at the same table with us, they want to treat us as they do the Jews of Baghdad, Cairo and Damascus."

David Ben-Gurion, 1947


So ... there it is again... PEACE...COLLABORATION...ALLIANCE....EQUAL TERMS.

These are not the words and terminology of a people looking to fight... They offered PEACE.

Why did the Arabs attack?

Why did the Arabs want war?

Why do the Arabs blame Israel for a war they started and easily could have avoided?

Answer some questions Alik Bahshi...

Israel was prepared to accept 2 states in 1948... Why did the Arabs not cooperate?

jafar00
06-25-2013, 10:23 PM
I will take those quotes at face value, Jafar. But wouldn't the offer of peace 10 years later be more important? They were offered peace, and rejected it. Similar to Palestine today, and the Hamas charter, refusing peace and refusing any peace negotiations. Oh, and the talk of Jew blood. Keep turning down peace and offers to talk, it mainly and primarily only hurts Palestine when this happens. Eventually they will fully cease to exist.

Let's assume that China had invaded the USA, taken over the most useful resource rich areas, and herded most of you into small, walled off enclaves that they bomb every now and then. Would you accept a peace offer from the Chinese after all that? Would the Chinese call you terrorists whenever you try to fight back?

tailfins
06-25-2013, 10:27 PM
Let's assume that China had invaded the USA, taken over the most useful resource rich areas, and herded most of you into small, walled off enclaves that they bomb every now and then. Would you accept a peace offer from the Chinese after all that? Would the Chinese call you terrorists whenever you try to fight back?

The Chinese and North Koreans already call us terrorists.

Voted4Reagan
06-26-2013, 05:10 AM
Jim. I did a Google search with the first paragraph, and found...it has been copied from Wikipedia.
Here is the link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Peace_Initiative

So he is a plagiarist....

Alik Bahshi

Fair Warning..... The admins here do not take kindly to copyright violations...

Gaffer
06-26-2013, 07:42 AM
Let's assume that China had invaded the USA, taken over the most useful resource rich areas, and herded most of you into small, walled off enclaves that they bomb every now and then. Would you accept a peace offer from the Chinese after all that? Would the Chinese call you terrorists whenever you try to fight back?

Except Israel didn't invade. They were already there. It was a territory at the time. They shared the land with syrian, pans-jordanian and lebanese arabs. There were NO palistanians.

Name a palistanian ruler before arafat.

What was palistanian money called?

What did the palistanian flag look like before 1948?

The only invention the arabs have made in a thousand years is the palistanian.

Voted4Reagan
06-26-2013, 08:26 AM
Except Israel didn't invade. They were already there. It was a territory at the time. They shared the land with syrian, pans-jordanian and lebanese arabs. There were NO palistanians.

Name a palistanian ruler before arafat.

What was palistanian money called?

What did the palistanian flag look like before 1948?

The only invention the arabs have made in a thousand years is the palistanian.

A good observation Gaffer... (See Below)
Flag of the Arab Revolt
The flag was designed by the British (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom) diplomat Sir Mark Sykes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Sykes), in an effort to create a feeling of "Arab-ness" in order to fuel the revolt.[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_Arab_Revolt#cite_note-1) Although the Arab Revolt was only very limited in scope and concerted by the British rather than by Arabs themselves, the flag influenced the national flags (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_flags) of a number of emerging Arab states (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_World) after World War I. Flags inspired by that of the Arab revolt include those of Egypt (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Egypt), Jordan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Jordan), Iraq (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Iraq), Kuwait (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Kuwait), Sudan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Sudan), Syria (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Syria), the United Arab Emirates (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_United_Arab_Emirates), Yemen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Yemen), the Palestinian national movement (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_flag) (also used by the PLO and by the Palestinian Authority), Somaliland (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Somaliland), the Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Sahrawi_Arab_Democratic_Republic) and Libya (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Libya).

The Flag of the Arab-Revolt was this.... It was used in 1916-1918

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_Arab_Revolt

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRssEcgO7o42e2npA7pItv7jFk4d7SXy 9uFRsNpnGVYMdwGaC6klQ



Now... the Current Flag is slightly different... (See Below)

Officially Adopted in 1964


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Flag_of_Palestine.svg/300px-Flag_of_Palestine.svg.png

Now...People will say that the Flag above flew in the 1930's... and it did...

But it wasnt the official flag of MANDATORY PALESTINE. It is often left out by those supporting the PLO that it was called PALESTINE... They always leave out the MANDATORY in the name. It was called MANDATORY PALESTINE after the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire. Control Passed from the Ottomans to the British. The Flag of Mandatory Palestine was this... It was the Official recognized Flag from 1920 to 1948.

(See Below)

http://backspin.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/06/29/flag_palestine_mandate_3.jpg

jimnyc
06-26-2013, 09:16 AM
Gaffer. I suspect that will not happen since I believe, I have found the source in Wikipedia online using Google search.

Here is the link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Peace_Initiative


So he is a plagiarist....

Alik Bahshi

Fair Warning..... The admins here do not take kindly to copyright violations...

Certainly not being argumentative or disagreeing, but can someone make this clearer for me, and show me what portion of his article was copied from that Wiki entry? I can't seem to put the 2 together, but then again, I've only just begun my coffee drinking for the day!

jimnyc
06-26-2013, 09:19 AM
Let's assume that China had invaded the USA, taken over the most useful resource rich areas, and herded most of you into small, walled off enclaves that they bomb every now and then. Would you accept a peace offer from the Chinese after all that? Would the Chinese call you terrorists whenever you try to fight back?

Did China invade the US - or did the USA first start a war with China and then lose land as a result of their mistake? It's hard to reply to an analogy that is so geared towards a lie and leading for an answer.

Voted4Reagan
06-26-2013, 10:16 AM
She Nails it..... Spot on.


http://youtu.be/ISNpOkpcWqg

aboutime
06-26-2013, 11:53 AM
Certainly not being argumentative or disagreeing, but can someone make this clearer for me, and show me what portion of his article was copied from that Wiki entry? I can't seem to put the 2 together, but then again, I've only just begun my coffee drinking for the day!


Jim. I've found, the easiest way to determine whether someone has used another author's words, such as in Wiki, is to just COPY the words...even an entire sentence, or part of a paragraph. Then, go to Google, and paste those words in the line where URL's...web addresses can be typed.
GOOGLE matches those words with everything almost instantly. That's how I found it.
I didn't say it was exact. Usually. When someone intentionally copies, and tries to use someone else's written work. They try to distort the words by inserting...their own words.
In this case. That didn't appear to happen.

jafar00
06-26-2013, 09:06 PM
She Nails it..... Spot on.


http://youtu.be/ISNpOkpcWqg

She is an Atheist. I am not surprised that she is quoting stuff without any knowledge of what she is talking about.

When she quotes the Hadith about the Prophet (saw) being ordered to fight the people until they believe is similar to verse 8:39 of the Qur'aan...

And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah. But if they cease, then lo! Allah is Seer of what they do.

Both the verse and the Hadith refer to a particular group of pagan arabs who were at war with the Muslims.

And she is trying to say it is for now? I noticed Memri as is typical, cut out any responses to her so as to give her uneducated ranting maximum time. I'm sure those in the interview pointed out the above fact to her.

Incredulously she said not a single Jew has destroyed a church!
http://www.imemc.org/article/59791
http://www.assistnews.net/Stories/2009/s09010002.htm

"We have not seen a single Jew protest by killing people"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYQxHkjzFUc

"We have not seen a single Buddhist burn down a Mosque"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_GcS1_MC_4

And so on... Her every word can be refuted and the Memri presentation is just propaganda to make Muslims look bad for Israel.

Marcus Aurelius
06-26-2013, 11:16 PM
She Nails it..... Spot on.


http://youtu.be/ISNpOkpcWqg

Jahil will now boldly proclaim Al Jazeera an anti-Islamic hate site.

Marcus Aurelius
06-26-2013, 11:20 PM
She is an Atheist. I am not surprised that she is quoting stuff without any knowledge of what she is talking about.

When she quotes the Hadith about the Prophet (saw) being ordered to fight the people until they believe is similar to verse 8:39 of the Qur'aan...

And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah. But if they cease, then lo! Allah is Seer of what they do.

Both the verse and the Hadith refer to a particular group of pagan arabs who were at war with the Muslims.

And she is trying to say it is for now? I noticed Memri as is typical, cut out any responses to her so as to give her uneducated ranting maximum time. I'm sure those in the interview pointed out the above fact to her.

Incredulously she said not a single Jew has destroyed a church!
http://www.imemc.org/article/59791
http://www.assistnews.net/Stories/2009/s09010002.htm

"We have not seen a single Jew protest by killing people"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYQxHkjzFUc

"We have not seen a single Buddhist burn down a Mosque"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_GcS1_MC_4

And so on... Her every word can be refuted and the Memri presentation is just propaganda to make Muslims look bad for Israel.

Point 1: Back to the 'it was only meant for a specific incident at that time, not as direction going forward'. Funny how you switch back and forth with that shit whenever it suits your agenda.

Point 2: Translation... 'Al Jazeera is now an anti-Islamic shill for the Jews.


People, is there any additional proof needed that Jahil is completely full of shit?

Marcus Aurelius
06-26-2013, 11:32 PM
She is an Atheist.

sorry, wrong again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wafa_Sultan


In the same Time interview, Sultan described herself as a Muslim who does not adhere to Islam, yet remains associated with the faith through her birth, rather than belief; "I even don't believe in Islam, but I am a Muslim."

How many atheists do you know that applaud others when they convert to Christianity from Islam???
http://www.livingscoop.com/watch.php?v=NDk4

jafar00
06-26-2013, 11:46 PM
Point 1: Back to the 'it was only meant for a specific incident at that time, not as direction going forward'. Funny how you switch back and forth with that shit whenever it suits your agenda.

Point 2: Translation... 'Al Jazeera is now an anti-Islamic shill for the Jews.


People, is there any additional proof needed that Jahil is completely full of shit?

1) I have never changed my opinion which is based on a sound education in Islam. Scholars know this, Muslims who know something about their religion and study it know this. The verse is for a particular time and place and for a particular people. No amount of twisting by you or Al Qaeda types will change the meaning.

2) No, Memri is.


sorry, wrong again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wafa_Sultan


Meh....

http://i.imgur.com/Wbi5lDj.png

Marcus Aurelius
06-26-2013, 11:53 PM
1) I have never changed my opinion which is based on a sound education in Islam. Scholars know this, Muslims who know something about their religion and study it know this. The verse is for a particular time and place and for a particular people. No amount of twisting by you or Al Qaeda types will change the meaning.

2) No, Memri is.



Meh....

http://i.imgur.com/Wbi5lDj.png

you constantly switch between saying certain verses were meant for all time, yet others were meant only for that time. If the Qur'aan is truth, why is it only truth for now PART of the time, and not ALL of the time, dumb ass?

How many atheists applaud conversions to Christianity, dumb ass?

jafar00
06-27-2013, 01:15 AM
you constantly switch between saying certain verses were meant for all time, yet others were meant only for that time.

Like when?


How many atheists applaud conversions to Christianity, dumb ass?

Do you expect me to take you seriously?

Marcus Aurelius
06-27-2013, 06:58 AM
http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=648938#post648938)

you constantly switch between saying certain verses were meant for all time, yet others were meant only for that time.
Like when?


http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=648938#post648938)

How many atheists applaud conversions to Christianity, dumb ass?



Do you expect me to take you seriously?

Anytime a Hadith or Qur'aan verse says something you agree with, you tell us it is meant for all time. Any time they prove someone elses point about Islam, like killing all infidels until nothing but Islam is left, you claim they were meant for a specific time or place, and were not meant to be carried forward in time to today.

Answer the question, dumb ass. How many atheists applaud when someone converst from Islam to Christianity like she did in the video I posted?

Well, I guess no one really takes you seriously, so whatever.

Voted4Reagan
06-27-2013, 07:10 AM
Anytime a Hadith or Qur'aan verse says something you agree with, you tell us it is meant for all time. Any time they prove someone elses point about Islam, like killing all infidels until nothing but Islam is left, you claim they were meant for a specific time or place, and were not meant to be carried forward in time to today.

Answer the question, dumb ass. How many atheists applaud when someone converst from Islam to Christianity like she did in the video I posted?

Well, I guess no one really takes you seriously, so whatever.I

have met Muslim women like Wafa Sultan.. If more people in the Muslim community were like her and held her views on Education over Radicalization there would be peace in the Middle East.

Muslims have to discard the old hatreds from centuries gone by. They have to move from the 9th century into the 21st century. Their culture and their standing in the world is declining. Most Muslims live in abject poverty. Look at Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Iraq, Iran, Somalia, Indonesia, Malaysia, All the North African countries, and even Egypt and Turkey.

For too long these countries have put Faith before progress.. They place faith before human rights, they believe that violence is an acceptable means to an end.

When they place Education and equal rights for women above all else they will move forward and join the modern era of humanity. A population that forbids women from being educated and allows them to be subjugated with few rights in an overly patriarchal society will never reach it's full potential.

All the western countries advanced because of this.

The Muslim countries believe that the perfect society is the 8th century Caliphate...

Sorry... you are almost 1500 years behind the times... Time to move forward....Or get out of the way.

aboutime
06-27-2013, 03:03 PM
I

have met Muslim women like Wafa Sultan.. If more people in the Muslim community were like her and held her views on Education over Radicalization there would be peace in the Middle East.

Muslims have to discard the old hatreds from centuries gone by. They have to move from the 9th century into the 21st century. Their culture and their standing in the world is declining. Most Muslims live in abject poverty. Look at Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Iraq, Iran, Somalia, Indonesia, Malaysia, All the North African countries, and even Egypt and Turkey.

For too long these countries have put Faith before progress.. They place faith before human rights, they believe that violence is an acceptable means to an end.

When they place Education and equal rights for women above all else they will move forward and join the modern era of humanity. A population that forbids women from being educated and allows them to be subjugated with few rights in an overly patriarchal society will never reach it's full potential.

All the western countries advanced because of this.

The Muslim countries believe that the perfect society is the 8th century Caliphate...

Sorry... you are almost 1500 years behind the times... Time to move forward....Or get out of the way.



V4R. Agreed. Unfortunately. Women like her have, and probably will become victims of assassin's bullets.
Anyone who openly speaks such Truth's in public. Normally has become the latest headline to make Muslim's dance
in the streets.
I know it sounds terrible. The Truth always is terrible news to those who live by Hatred.

jafar00
06-27-2013, 04:01 PM
I

have met Muslim women like Wafa Sultan.. If more people in the Muslim community were like her and held her views on Education over Radicalization there would be peace in the Middle East.


She was born Alawite, not Muslim and by her own words she is now secular or atheist. You can't base an opinion of her by a selectively chopped up Memri rant. I applaud AJ for giving her airtime to voice her opinion, but at the same time I can't help think that her ranting is just about selling her anti-Islam books.

red states rule
06-27-2013, 04:06 PM
In Israeli nurseries the sign says quiet please. In Palestinian maternity wards the sign says? "Live ammunition."


A Palestinian girl says to her mommy, "After Abdul blows up, can I have his room?"

jimnyc
06-27-2013, 04:12 PM
She was born Alawite, not Muslim and by her own words she is now secular or atheist. You can't base an opinion of her by a selectively chopped up Memri rant. I applaud AJ for giving her airtime to voice her opinion, but at the same time I can't help think that her ranting is just about selling her anti-Islam books.

Yes, an Alawite - an Aliwite Muslim. I guess this will be where we are told for the billionth time that she wasn't a "real Muslim".


Sultan was born into a large traditional Alawite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alawite) Muslim (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim)[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wafa_Sultan#cite_note-nyt-1)[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wafa_Sultan#cite_note-2) family in Baniyas, Syria.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wafa_Sultan

Voted4Reagan
06-27-2013, 04:31 PM
Yes, an Alawite - an Aliwite Muslim. I guess this will be where we are told for the billionth time that she wasn't a "real Muslim".



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wafa_Sultan

Jafar practices The Sunni School of Islam... Ms. Wafa Sultan is an Alawite "Twelver" which is a sect of the SHIITE school.

Jafar does not consider anyone that is Shiite to be a Muslim or Practice Islam...

Such is the Sunni Indoctrination of their followers.. to dismiss hundreds of millions of their fellow muslims because of minor theological differences.

The Sunni's hate the Shia as much or more so then Jews or Christians.

Sunni's dont really like anyone but other Sunni's...

jafar00
06-27-2013, 09:16 PM
Jafar practices The Sunni School of Islam... Ms. Wafa Sultan is an Alawite "Twelver" which is a sect of the SHIITE school.

Jafar does not consider anyone that is Shiite to be a Muslim or Practice Islam...

Such is the Sunni Indoctrination of their followers.. to dismiss hundreds of millions of their fellow muslims because of minor theological differences.

The Sunni's hate the Shia as much or more so then Jews or Christians.

Sunni's dont really like anyone but other Sunni's...

No, the Alawites are not at all Muslims. They aren't even related to the Shia. They drink alcohol, venerate Ali (ra) (moreso than the Shia even) to the point of making him a kind of divine being or deity, and they celebrate Christmas in a religious sense. That is sufficient to bring them out of the fold of Islam.


Are Alawites Related to Shiites in Iran?<q style="font-family: inherit; font-style: italic; margin: 0px 0px 0.5em; padding: 0px; text-decoration: inherit; quotes: ''; display: block; position: relative; max-width: 100%;">http://0.tqn.com/d/middleeast/1/6/n/G/-/-/khamenei.jpg (http://0.tqn.com/d/middleeast/1/0/n/G/-/-/khamenei.jpg)</q><cite style="font-family: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; text-decoration: inherit; display: block; max-width: 100%;">Getty Images</cite>
Alawites are often portrayed as religious brethren of Iranian Shiites, a misconception that stems from the close strategic alliance between the Assad family and the Iranian regime (which developed after the Iranian revolution in 1979).
But this is all politics. Alawites have no historical links or any traditional religious affinity to Iranian Shiites, who belong to the Twelver school (http://middleeast.about.com/od/glossary/g/me081206.htm), the main Shiite branch. Alawites were never part of the mainstream Shiite structures. It wasn’t until 1974 that the Alawites were officially recognized for the first time as Shiite Muslims, by Musa Sadr, a Lebanese (Twelver) Shiite cleric.
Moreover, Alawites are ethnic Arabs, while Iranians are Persians. And although attached to their unique cultural traditions, most Alawites are staunch Syrian nationalists.

http://middleeast.about.com/od/syria/tp/The-Difference-Between-Alawites-And-Sunnis-In-Syria.htm

aboutime
06-27-2013, 09:19 PM
I personally, really do enjoy every post jafar ignores that I write in his behalf.

Nothing speaks louder about a liar than their troubled resistance to defending the UnDefendable.

red states rule
06-28-2013, 02:23 AM
I personally, really do enjoy every post jafar ignores that I write in his behalf.

Nothing speaks louder about a liar than their troubled resistance to defending the UnDefendable.

If Jafar lived in the US he would be the perfect liberal Dem candidate for any elected office

aboutime
06-28-2013, 02:50 PM
If Jafar lived in the US he would be the perfect liberal Dem candidate for any elected office


red states rule. TRUE. But I am almost certain. All Commissioners of WASTE MANAGEMENT, LANDFILLS, and SEWERAGE DISPOSAL plants feel secure in their jobs. Even if jafar is available.

Alik Bahshi
06-30-2013, 10:26 AM
At Present, June 24, 2013. Several members of DP do not recognize 'jafar' as a viable member of the human race. So. Jafar is also NONEXISTENT.

I am a new member, but as I understand there are several people in the command disputes. Tell me, today June 30, 2013 Jafar also in nonexistence or not?

Marcus Aurelius
06-30-2013, 10:30 AM
She was born Alawite, not Muslim and by her own words she is now secular or atheist. You can't base an opinion of her by a selectively chopped up Memri rant. I applaud AJ for giving her airtime to voice her opinion, but at the same time I can't help think that her ranting is just about selling her anti-Islam books.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alawites

The Alawites, also known as Alawis (ʿAlawīyyah Arabic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_language): علوية‎) are a prominent mystical (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mysticism) religious group centred in Syria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria) who follow a branch of the Twelver (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelver) school of Shia Islam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shia_Islam).

Dumb ass... you're back to 'not really Islamic'. Typical.

Marcus Aurelius
06-30-2013, 10:32 AM
No, the Alawites are not at all Muslims. They aren't even related to the Shia. They drink alcohol, venerate Ali (ra) (moreso than the Shia even) to the point of making him a kind of divine being or deity, and they celebrate Christmas in a religious sense. That is sufficient to bring them out of the fold of Islam.



http://middleeast.about.com/od/syria/tp/The-Difference-Between-Alawites-And-Sunnis-In-Syria.htm[/FONT]
[/FONT][/COLOR]


from your own link...

It wasn’t until 1974 that the Alawites were officially recognized for the first time as Shiite Muslims, by Musa Sadr, a Lebanese (Twelver) Shiite cleric.
Your own link says they are Shiite Muslims, dumb ass.

Oh, right, I forgot, the Shiites are not Muslims, according to you. :rolleyes:

jafar00
06-30-2013, 06:23 PM
I am a new member, but as I understand there are several people in the command disputes. Tell me, today June 30, 2013 Jafar also in nonexistence or not?

I'm here. I exist :D