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Alik Bahshi
06-25-2013, 11:14 AM
Alik Bahshi

Israel, and the simple truth



"The simple truth is rarely
is clear - never simple"

Oscar Wild


Civilization experience shows that all human intervention in nature, proved wrong. Human society is also part of nature, and though the man carries the possibility of a comprehensive art, civilization developed on their own, independent of human laws. One historical formation gave way to another without meaningful participation focused on a man, that is not created first ideology social structure, which is then followed humanity. Philosophers and historians had only to establish the fact of the transition from the slave system to the feudal system and then to capitalism without theoretical justification of the inevitable emergence of a future formation.


In the late 19th century, in addition to other major discoveries in the natural world have been offered two ideologies (Communism and Zionism), which, though not proved valuable in terms of philosophy in relation to the first or general social significance for a second, but that left a significant mark in the history of that have been implemented in practice.


One - Karl Marx considered inevitable replacement of capitalism by the Communist era as a new social system, a kind of earthly paradise for mankind. Attempting to put this ideology into practice was made in Russia duress claim the destruction of the Russian intelligentsia and active business executives. Experiment over the society was no less bloody than the era of medieval obscurantism, lasted 70 years, with the entry of the world proletarian revolution club, and ended in failure. It should be noted, originally initiated the experiment were mainly representatives of Jewish, then they are also becoming dissidents, and ran out of the country they have created a "communist paradise".


I do not want a detailed discussion of the error of the communist ideology, but, in my opinion, the main reason for its failure was that it was intended to create a new man, a certain individual communist type, based on the absurd assumption that the environment and the conditions of education could change the very nature of man. Therefore, the ideology of communism and praised to the skies by schemers Science Academician Lysenko, rejecting genetics, calling her a capitalist pseudoscience.


Another - the ideology of Zionism, Theodor Herzl, was less global in nature and involves the goal of creating a state for the Jewish people. It was assumed that Jews from around the world will gather in one place in the world. Incredible and in some cases even funny, if you search for the territory of the future Jewish state considered and South America, and Africa, and the Crimea, before settling on Palestine. However, it should be noted that instead of Crimea Stalin singled out for the land of the Jews in the Far East, where he organized the Jewish Autonomous Region. This fact suggests that the idea of Zionism took place and one of the leaders of the Great October Socialist Revolution in Russia, most of whom were Jews. With high probability we can assume that if a confrontation between Stalin and Trotsky (Bronstein) up to take the last, to be Jewish Crimea republic.

In the end, after considerable financial costs and diplomacy after quite a large time span, including two World Wars and the Holocaust, Zionism, the idea became reality the UN decision to allocate part of the territory of Palestine for the Jewish state. However, the program of Zionism was not performed in full, because it is not able to gather all the Jews in Israel. The Jews did not want to leave the safe countries for the promised land of Israel and mostly settled Jews from Eastern European countries, North Africa and the Middle East, based on all possible assistance to the Jewish organizations to encourage repatriation, if it is at all possible to use the term. The fact that the Jews are all those who believe in Judaism, but this does not mean that the Jews are ethnically one people. European Jews are different from Moroccan Jews, not only in appearance and traditions, but also the mentality, in fact, even in Israel, their faith had not united, if we take into account that they are praying to everyone in their synagogues. Well, about the Ethiopian Jews, and can not speak. For example, the Khazars, before accepting Islam a short time were Jews, so what do they have ceased to be the Khazars. Therefore, the word "repatriation" is not the same as back home. It's like as if to say "repatriation of Christians." Well, where should they be repatriated? However, in the first approximation, the Crusades can also be interpreted as the repatriation of European Christians to the homeland of the Faith in the promised land.

But let us leave aside these arguments and look at the facts, because only they reflect reality: the state of Israel exists, and it is strong economically and it is even more strongly in the military, compared with the surrounding Arab countries. Here it is necessary to take into account the very important fact that the magnitude of Israel so he and dependent on a single, but a powerful ally - the United States, an ally, without whose help it is difficult to imagine the possibility of the existence of the Jewish state. The fact that the well-known reasons, since the formation of Israel was at war with the Arabs and introduced half a century ago, the martial law has not been canceled today. Obviously, such a small country like Israel can not so long alone against hostile environment and America's role as an ally invaluable.

However, the policy is pragmatic and therefore a reasonable question that America wins the friendship with Israel, can cause confusion and bewilderment. Is there a clear answer, what specifically has positive dividends America, being in the military and political alliance with Israel. Sometimes the arguments in favor of an alliance, they see that, they say, Israel is an outpost of democracy in the Middle East. But can a country with no constitution, the country in which there is no separation of executive and legislative powers, the country in which religion is not separated from the state, the country with socialist principles of management, when major financial and manufacturing facilities are in the hands of the state, and, finally, the country carrying out the policy of apartheid to a part of its population, to be called democratic? And if a principled approach to this issue, the outpost of democracy in the Middle East is not Israel, and Turkey. Reason Union of America and Israel is a completely different plane, and explains a significant share of the participation of American Jews in the financial and, as a consequence, the political life of the country. It is thanks to the Jewish lobby Congress of the United States is spending a lot of funds from the state budget to help Israel, supported by the military and political patronage. U.S. taxpayer money to these disappear into the sands of the Middle Eastern, not bringing any benefit America. Furthermore, as a belligerent ally, America is putting himself under enemy attack. Permanent war between Israel and the Palestinians crossed the ocean and the tragedy of September 11 is the result of the bloody Middle East show, which put the Jewish lobby on American money. For the Jewish lobby interests of Israel is more important than the interests of America. Blocking perfectly valid UN Security Council resolution condemning Israel's occupation of Arab territories, the United States is forced to use the policy of double standards. With the decision to crack down on al-Qaeda, begins continuous string of policy failures of President Bush, because of all that had taken the American president, it is not commendable.

If not for close ties with Israel, America would have no problems with the Arabs. America has been and is a major problem with the Russian. Moscow, using the Arab-Israeli conflict, the Arab countries trying to attract to their side, to change in their favor the strategic situation in the Middle East, the main supplier of oil to the West. Even today, the idea strangle strategic adversary fuel shortage still burn in the minds of Kremlin strategists. By the way, here we note that in the case of Israel and the Arabs pacifying Russian finally lose hope in the plan. And here's the paradox: real peace between the Arabs and the Jews do not want either Russian or Jewish law, in spite of fierce mutual hatred. Verily, from love to hate - one step.

In my view, the main factor hindering peace between Israel and the Arabs, is the overseas patriotism of American Jews, who created the Jewish lobby in Congress, have an impact on U.S. policy toward the Arab-Israeli conflict, and political life in Israel. Far from the real situation in Israel, they support the aggressive intentions of the Israeli right in terms of the obstacles a Palestinian state and the annexation of the territories of neighboring Syria and Lebanon; It is important to note that in its aggressiveness towards the Arabs Jews of America have surpassed themselves Israelis. Over the last 10 - 15 years of Israeli society polevelo markedly, despite the fact that it poured nearly one million immigrants from the Soviet Union, which is 99 percent completely ardent opponents of the state providing Palestinian Arabs. For a complete understanding of the need to consider a very important detail, which is that, unfortunately, Soviet Jews have imperial worldview, which they had acquired in the USSR and, weighed down by this luggage, went to other countries. This fact seems at first sight phenomenon, but quite understandable. If the presence of a Russian imperial ideology, as a state-forming people (creative discovery Russian nationalists in linguistics), is not objectionable, Soviet Jews have acquired it as a result of the revolution and the USSR. The fact that the Jews perceived the Soviet Union as a whole, for they were not the indigenous people to the territory habitat. In addition, Jews were pioneers of the socialist revolution, and in the majority of the leaders of the Communists. Using the slogan "Workers of the world unite", they managed to unite the people of the empire who believed in a "bright future of communism." The truth of the people who came to power, mostly, say no ethnic Russian proletarians and was not even there! If we consider that in the minds of the Russian people, except imperial ideology is present and Russian chauvinism, which was pointed out by Stalin so loved by the people, it is certain that other nations of the empire meant the unenviable role of younger brothers. In these circumstances, the Soviet Jews were cementing this nation of the Soviet Union, which had an impact on their world, which they retained, leaving the country collapsed.

Following interesting fact: despite strong patriotic feelings and love for Israel, Soviet Jews flocked to America, and, oddly enough, in Germany, the country that because of certain historical events, it would seem difficult to choose the Promised Land. By the way, it is possible, if not for the Holocaust, it could not have taken place and the Jewish state in Palestine. It is hard to blame the people who want a better life, which is all one, for lack of patriotism, if we take into account that for most of them, Israel is the homeland for which worth risking the well-being and even lives. The place where the faith was born, does not always coincide with the concept of homeland. For example, remember once again the Khazars, who took a short while Judaism. For them, Israel is certainly not way side could not be home, however, did not they and the Arabs to accept Islam.

To redirect the flow of Jewish immigrants to Israel, where he is vital to change the demographic situation developing in the future not to the state as a Jewish, World Jewish Congress managed to get from America to Israel release 10 billion dollars for the reception of immigrants from the Soviet Union and thus close America. So there was a Great Aliyah 90s, came to Israel about a million Jews. Many of them still later moved to the United States and Canada, not only maintaining patriotism, but even more showing thus
aggressive intentions towards the Palestinians, calling from overseas staying in Israel for stronger military actions against the Palestinians. For example, former Russian-language Israeli journalist, once in New York, literally climbs out of the skin, strongly urging Israelis not to conduct peace negotiations with the Palestinians and not to leave the occupied territories. Yes, from a distance everything seems easier and immense courage, especially when your militant calls that lead to nowhere, should exercise more.

More than half a century, continuing Arab-Israeli conflict, which sometimes unintentionally become and neutral countries, as scores between Jews and Arabs are reduced wherever possible, across borders and fighting techniques. Taken hostage, abducted planes explode hotels in Buenos Aires, and Istanbul, undermined cars and handsets. Like a funnel tightened in depth reduction of the country, whose people do far from the Middle East conflict. For example, the Afghan people have fallen victim to this conflict, because Bush is in pursuit of bin Laden, started a war against the Taliban, which are quite far from the explanation of the relationship between Arabs and Jews. If we take into account that there is no Pashtun border between Afghanistan and Pakistan, it is theoretically theater of war could spill over into Pakistan. But I think before that it will not come, because Bush does not have at this time a fatal mistake. Destabilize the nuclear power - a very dangerous idea.


All attempts to crush Palestinian resistance is futile. While Israel had used all possible military action, were not used, except that only napalm bomb. If at least some would be military action by Israel could solve the problem, it would have long been realized. In nature, there is simply no such opportunity to force the Palestinians to give up their freedom. Violence problem is not solved. Moreover, there is a trend threatening putting Israel position both in terms of the political and the military. Only in this way can be interpreted as withdrawal from Gaza and a complete failure in the Second Lebanon. Right camp, killing of Yitzhak Rabin and foolishly rejected the Saudi peace initiative, brings the country to ruin. Without peace with the Arabs, Israel has no future, but the world is becoming more elusive.


In my view, the United Nations made a big mistake by taking a decision on the division of Palestine into two states, without providing them with reasonable safety and giving the Jews and the Arabs themselves to observe the boundary between the Jewish and Arab states. The UN should have foreseen that a confrontation is inevitable and necessary presence of a third force on the line of the boundary section is obvious.

It's time to fix the problem and put the UN troops to Israel, dividing Jews and Arabs on the border, used to be a prescribed solution. Other real option to end the Middle East conflict today, no. However, there is one hypothetical output - is to give the Palestinians equal rights to the Jews, but in order to preserve the Jewish character of the state, it is necessary that the majority of American Jews moved to Israel. By the way, at last, be fully realized goal of Zionism to gather all the Jews in one state. But from that moment there are some tough questions.
If American Jews will move to Israel, they will lose their representation in the government of the United States and Israel certainly lose the traditional support that he owed the Jewish lobby. Withdrawal of Jews from American political life can not affect the political and economic situation of the Jewish state. How to behave like American politicians, freed from the pressure they felt by the Jewish lobby? On the other hand it is doubtful that the Jews, being in Israel, will maintain their financial well-being, which they had in America. The fact that it was achieved in an environment of other people and not the fact that the Jews in the Holy Land to keep the same level of wealth, which they had in the Diaspora.

The peoples of different mentality: - a sort of hereditary constant defining the people, their character, behavior, visual contrast and even the way of life. For example, if you give Roma the ground, say, treat it, let it feeds you, build a house, the word live on it as you see fit. The next morning, you will not find them there. They have a different way of being. They will not do in his "stealing horses."


However, the story does not suffer the fate of the subjunctive interpretation and all goes to the fact that the international community will be forced to enter into Israel international force that will set the state border dividing the two countries. UN must correct a mistake made half a century ago.

It is hoped that Zionism does not suffer the fate of Communism.


"Fate and history is written by the same hand"

Paulo Coelho

jimnyc
06-25-2013, 11:25 AM
continued:

I edited your post as I would rather we don't link to other forums for continuation of 'articles'. If this is your own work, just post the entire article here.

Marcus Aurelius
06-25-2013, 11:28 AM
[/B]I edited your post as I would rather we don't link to other forums for continuation of 'articles'. If this is your own work, just post the entire article here.

Now you've gone and done it, Jim. Allah is gonna come down and piss in your coffee for that.:poke:

Alik Bahshi
06-25-2013, 11:30 AM
[/B]I edited your post as I would rather we don't link to other forums for continuation of 'articles'. If this is your own work, just post the entire article here.

Thanks, I'll try one more time, before I could not put the subject. I also think that a reference to another forum is not worth it.

Alik Bahshi
06-25-2013, 11:37 AM
[/B]I edited your post as I would rather we don't link to other forums for continuation of 'articles'. If this is your own work, just post the entire article here.
Alas attempt a topic can not.

jimnyc
06-25-2013, 11:46 AM
Alas attempt a topic can not.

Huh? I will edit your post and put it all in there.

But you still haven't answered - are these writings 100% of your own work?

jimnyc
06-25-2013, 11:48 AM
Post edited to include entire article, at least until we verify it is in fact your own writing.

Alik Bahshi
06-25-2013, 12:30 PM
Huh? I will edit your post and put it all in there.

But you still haven't answered - are these writings 100% of your own work?

Yes, all the articles I have written. By the way, some of the articles are in Russian newspapers in Israel. I sign the article by name and my nickname is my name.

Alik Bahshi
06-25-2013, 12:41 PM
Post edited to include entire article, at least until we verify it is in fact your own writing.

I'm not going to make excuses here, but just want to say that most of my articles have been published on the website proza.ru.

Marcus Aurelius
06-25-2013, 12:42 PM
Yes, all the articles I have written. By the way, some of the articles are in Russian newspapers in Israel. I sign the article by name and my nickname is my name.

So, since you are not actually discussing anything, just posting articles you've written, you're essentially just looking for more publicity for your work... aka... spamming.

Alik Bahshi
06-25-2013, 12:49 PM
So, since you are not actually discussing anything, just posting articles you've written, you're essentially just looking for more publicity for your work... aka... spamming.

So far, I have not seen a reasoned discussion from you, besides a discussion of my right to express my opinion in the forum, but accusations of plagiarism.

aboutime
06-25-2013, 12:54 PM
So far, I have not seen a reasoned discussion from you, besides a discussion of my right to express my opinion in the forum, but accusations of plagiarism.


Doesn't matter whether there is any discussion here about what you posted. You are SPAMMING your own work. If it IS your own.
5181

Marcus Aurelius
06-25-2013, 01:04 PM
So far, I have not seen a reasoned discussion from you, besides a discussion of my right to express my opinion in the forum, but accusations of plagiarism.

You posted an article. Big deal. Now when people like V4R ask you to discuss particulars, you ignore them.

You're a waste. I'm done with you.

Alik Bahshi
06-25-2013, 01:49 PM
Now you've gone and done it, Jim. Allah is gonna come down and piss in your coffee for that.:poke:

Sorry, but after these words, I think I will have nothing to tell you. You are in so many of your posts and could not say anything sensible.

All the best

jimnyc
06-25-2013, 02:17 PM
Guys, if you don't have an interest in what he writes, please just move along. I don't see where he was offensive in this thread. If people actually replied to the content of his post, then we might see how in fact he replies in return. Let's not push new members away for simply posting an article that they write.

aboutime
06-25-2013, 02:17 PM
Sorry, but after these words, I think I will have nothing to tell you. You are in so many of your posts and could not say anything sensible.

All the best


Bu bye!

Marcus Aurelius
06-25-2013, 02:22 PM
Sorry, but after these words, I think I will have nothing to tell you. You are in so many of your posts and could not say anything sensible.

All the best

https://photos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/p110x80/34831_150696804982205_536299_a.jpg

:laugh2:

Marcus Aurelius
06-25-2013, 02:50 PM
Guys, if you don't have an interest in what he writes, please just move along. I don't see where he was offensive in this thread. If people actually replied to the content of his post, then we might see how in fact he replies in return. Let's not push new members away for simply posting an article that they write.

understood.

jafar00
06-25-2013, 10:03 PM
Unfortunately, there is no way to criticise the state of Israel here without attracting infantile insults and derision from those who support the last apartheid state.

tailfins
06-25-2013, 10:21 PM
Unfortunately, there is no way to criticise the state of Israel here without attracting infantile insults and derision from those who support the last apartheid state.

You're forgetting someone here! I give Muslim and Jew the same benefit of the doubt. I judge each as an individual and for the most part trust the US career public servants to do the right thing. Hopefully the current occupier of the White House will leave enough of the career public servants alone for the US to function.

Gaffer
06-26-2013, 08:34 AM
Unfortunately, there is no way to criticise the state of Israel here without attracting infantile insults and derision from those who support the last apartheid state.

There are plenty of ways to criticize the Israeli state. Calling for it's demise and total annihilation is not one of them.

The only thing apartheid about Israel is they don't allow all the arabs from outside in to the take over the country.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
06-26-2013, 09:09 AM
One - Karl Marx considered inevitable replacement of capitalism by the Communist era as a new social system, a kind of earthly paradise for mankind. Attempting to put this ideology into practice was made in Russia duress claim the destruction of the Russian intelligentsia and active business executives. Experiment over the society was no less bloody than the era of medieval obscurantism, lasted 70 years, with the entry of the world proletarian revolution club, and ended in failure. It should be noted, originally initiated the experiment were mainly representatives of Jewish, then they are also becoming dissidents, and ran out of the country they have created a "communist paradise".


I do not want a detailed discussion of the error of the communist ideology, but, in my opinion, the main reason for its failure was that it was intended to create a new man, a certain individual communist type, based on the absurd assumption that the environment and the conditions of education could change the very nature of man. Therefore, the ideology of communism and praised to the skies by schemers Science Academician Lysenko, rejecting genetics, calling her a capitalist pseudoscience. You have it correct, the true failure of communism is not just that it ignores man's inherent nature (evil). Rather it seeks to control that (evil)nature by direct brutal force. Communism sought to create a dynamic "system" of control rather than a "new man". So much within that system depended upon the willingness of its "victims" to be selfless and abandon their own individual desires and dreams. People rarely ever do that and the system had to always force that change by using brute force. Man always rebels against the use of brute force.-Tyr

aboutime
06-26-2013, 12:04 PM
Unfortunately, there is no way to criticise the state of Israel here without attracting infantile insults and derision from those who support the last apartheid state.


jafar. If you smartened up a bit, and stopped hammering out your hatred for Israel all the time by just staying quiet. Those insults, as you call them...might not happen. So, what did you end your statement above with???? More accusations typical of Hatred from people like you.

fj1200
06-26-2013, 01:47 PM
... the true failure of communism is not just that it ignores man's inherent nature (evil). Rather it seeks to control that (evil)nature by direct brutal force.


God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

Communism failed because it denies man's inherent nature to seek liberty.

jafar00
06-26-2013, 08:32 PM
There are plenty of ways to criticize the Israeli state. Calling for it's demise and total annihilation is not one of them.

The only thing apartheid about Israel is they don't allow all the arabs from outside in to the take over the country.

Then of course there are the Jew only roads. Jew only neighbourhoods. Jew only towns.....

aboutime
06-26-2013, 08:38 PM
Then of course there are the Jew only roads. Jew only neighbourhoods. Jew only towns.....


jafar. And you still have no idea how Bigoted, and Hate filled you sound? Remember many months ago when you told us...or did you lie again? About how much you get along with Jews???

If I was a Jew, and knew how hypocritical you were. I'd easily call you the very same hate filled names you called me.

But then again. People who practice such hatred have no concept or mentality to feel anything but hatred toward anyone that isn't THEM, or YOU!

Gaffer
06-27-2013, 07:16 AM
Then of course there are the Jew only roads. Jew only neighbourhoods. Jew only towns.....

Gee imagine that. A Jewish country that has Jew only roads. A country where muslims have been known to blow themselves up in businesses and buses. And Jews only neighborhoods. Imagine that, again. In a country where pals are known for breaking into homes and murdering the families.

Do they also have separate water fountains, separate bathrooms, seating at the back of the bus?

It's about logical separation because one group is civilized and the other (arab) savages.

How are the Christians and Jews of saudia arabia doing? Think there's any apartheid there? The Copts of Egypt? Iran? Iraq? How about Britain, where even the police don't go into certain areas? I can go on with example after example.

Muslims are not looking for equality, they are looking to dominate. In the case of Israel they are looking to kill.

aboutime
06-27-2013, 02:48 PM
Gee imagine that. A Jewish country that has Jew only roads. A country where muslims have been known to blow themselves up in businesses and buses. And Jews only neighborhoods. Imagine that, again. In a country where pals are known for breaking into homes and murdering the families.

Do they also have separate water fountains, separate bathrooms, seating at the back of the bus?

It's about logical separation because one group is civilized and the other (arab) savages.

How are the Christians and Jews of saudia arabia doing? Think there's any apartheid there? The Copts of Egypt? Iran? Iraq? How about Britain, where even the police don't go into certain areas? I can go on with example after example.

Muslims are not looking for equality, they are looking to dominate. In the case of Israel they are looking to kill.


Gaffer. Just wait till jafar begins to tell us about the Palestinian Only Roads in Gaza. You know? Where any Israeli, or Jew stands to get blown up, shot up, or beheaded for daring to drive such a road????

What say you Jafar???
Do you understand the concept of hypocrisy, and double standards???

Alik Bahshi
06-29-2013, 02:29 PM
Communism failed because it denies man's inherent nature to seek liberty. I also want to add that the komminizm dead system because does not involve competition.

Alik Bahshi
10-15-2023, 11:55 PM
Once again Israel and Palestine are at war. Until the principle of two states for two peoples is implemented, this conflict will not end.

SassyLady
10-16-2023, 10:57 AM
Once again Israel and Palestine are at war. Until the principle of two states for two peoples is implemented, this conflict will not end.
Gaza and the residents refuse to accept 2 state solution because they want Israel wiped off the face of the earth.

Kathianne
10-16-2023, 11:01 AM
Gaza and the residents refuse to accept 2 state solution because they want Israel wiped off the face of the earth.

Indeed. There were and are Gazans that have remained in Israel since the beginning. They've prospered along with Israelis and suffered with them at the hands of Hamas and Hezbollah.

If everyone had remained as one state, peacefully, it would be a very different place today. The US is not the same country it was in the 1960s either. Alas, different choices were made, different roads taken.

Alik Bahshi
10-16-2023, 04:54 PM
Indeed. There were and are Gazans that have remained in Israel since the beginning. They've prospered along with Israelis and suffered with them at the hands of Hamas and Hezbollah.

If everyone had remained as one state, peacefully, it would be a very different place today. The US is not the same country it was in the 1960s either. Alas, different choices were made, different roads taken.


Alas, Israel does not give Palestinians from the occupied territory Israeli citizenship and prevents them from gaining a state. Their condition is called apartheid.

SassyLady
10-16-2023, 05:59 PM
Alas, Israel does not give Palestinians from the occupied territory Israeli citizenship and prevents them from gaining a state. Their condition is called apartheid.
Palestinians do not want their own state. As for apartheid .. Gazans are the ones that want Israel and all the Jewish people eradicated.

Kathianne
10-16-2023, 10:43 PM
Alas, Israel does not give Palestinians from the occupied territory Israeli citizenship and prevents them from gaining a state. Their condition is called apartheid.


Check these out, it's pretty much spot on. As I said, the civilians would have been better off with one state, but if two was the best for them, it was offered, and offered, and offered.

Argarar Leibovitch
(https://www.quora.com/profile/Argarar-Leibovitch)





Lives in Israel (1945–present)Author has 671 answers and 571.5K answer views3y (https://www.quora.com/Has-Israel-ever-offered-a-two-state-solution/answer/Argarar-Leibovitch)






Israel offered accepted and offered many times two-state solutions.
Arabs refuses all peace proposals and started violent actions.
The defending Israel desires co-existence with Arabs.
The Arabs aggressors desire end of Israel existence.
Pls ask the Arabs named by the Soviet KGB Palestinians in 1968 if they ever made a peace proposal?
Following a partial list.
1: In 1947 the UN offered two-states: One for Israel and one for the 22 Arab state. The Arab aggressors refused and invade the defending Israel with 7 armies.
The Arabs declared:
“This will be a war of extermination and momentous massacre, which will be spoken of like the Tartar massacres, or the Crusaders’ wars….
2: From 1948 up 1957 Jordan occupied the West bank. Egypt occupied the Gaza strip. The could form the 22 Arab state but they didn’t. The Arabs living on those lands didn’t require an independent state.
3: After the 1967 war, the defending Israel propose to give up most of the territory it had won in exchange for a guarantee of peace.
The Arab leaders answer was:
1: NO PEACE with Israel,
2: NO NEGOTIATIONS with Israel,
3: NO RECOGNITION of Israel
4: The Oslo agreement for the defending Israel was the path to peace.
For The Arabs named by the Soviet KGB Palestinians in 1968 the agreement was the path to establish mass terrorist cells , kill Israeli civilians and lie to the west.
"The Oslo Agreement is a Trojan horse; We plan to eliminate Israel"
Public declaration of Arafat in the Arabic language, made several times.
5: Clinton blamed Arafat after the failure of the talks with Israeli PM Barak stating:
"I regret that Arafat missed the opportunity to bring that nation into being”
6; 2000- On Taba negotiations Israel made unprecedented offers.
Palestinian response was to open the deadly terror war against Israel civilians
7: On 2009 the Israel right government lead by PM Olmert proposed Abas a detailed peace plan.
Abbas promised a reply!
He never returned to peace negotiations.
8: Obama required stopping settlements for limited time and negotiate.
Israel stopped the settlements for 10 month.
The Palestinians refused negotiations
9; 2020- President Trump, in order to brake the 72 years death lock , proposed a new peace plan including a $50 Billions packaged to be used to build a good future for the Arabs.
The Palestinians refused and cut the connections with USA and Israel.
10: Examples of the Arabs named Palestinians by the KGB in 1968 destroy Israel narrative said the Arabic langug:.
10.1: "WE ARE IN LINE WITH HAMAS OPPOSING ISRAEL’S RIGHT TO EXIST”
“ Our public statements recognizing Israel’s right to exist to the West are designed “to trick the Americans"
Mahmud Abbas declaration recorded on YouTube
10.2: Hamas and PLO charter, biding all the Arabs named by mistake Palestinians politicians:
: "The day of judgment will not come until Moslem's fight killing the Jews.”
""; PEACE AND QUITE WOULD BE POSSIBLE ONLY UNDER ISLAM WINGS”
“ Under Islam, Christianity, Judaism may coexist”
Read Hamas charter
10.3: “The struggle will not stop until the Zionist entity IS ELIMINATED""
From the PLO platform reaffirmed in the Fatah




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Answer requested by Efrayim Bulka
(https://www.quora.com/profile/Efrayim-Bulka-1)

Alik Bahshi
10-17-2023, 09:48 AM
Check these out, it's pretty much spot on. As I said, the civilians would have been better off with one state, but if two was the best for them, it was offered, and offered, and offered.





As I understand it from your assumption that it is better for civilians to be in one state, you meant Palestine.

Kathianne
10-17-2023, 10:11 AM
As I understand it from your assumption that it is better for civilians to be in one state, you meant Palestine.

No, that would have been Israel, as a homeland was offered to those Muslims at end of WWII, it was declined with violence.

Alik Bahshi
10-17-2023, 10:49 AM
No, that would have been Israel, as a homeland was offered to those Muslims at end of WWII, it was declined with violence.

Yes, they came to the Palestinians and offered another homeland. Great! The result was 5 million refugees.

Kathianne
10-17-2023, 10:53 AM
Yes, they came to the Palestinians and offered another homeland. Great! The result was 5 million refugees.

Some remember the process, others pretend to forget it to continue the hate.

Alik Bahshi
10-18-2023, 03:13 PM
In the Gaza Strip, a bomb hit a hospital, killing about 800 people. Israel previously warned that it would bomb the hospital, since the headquarters of Hamas militants is located underneath it.

SassyLady
10-18-2023, 03:42 PM
In the Gaza Strip, a bomb hit a hospital, killing about 800 people. Israel previously warned that it would bomb the hospital, since the headquarters of Hamas militants is located underneath it.
Rocket landed in parking lot. It was a Hamas home made rocket that disintegrated on its way into Israel.

Alik Bahshi
10-19-2023, 10:32 PM
In the Gaza Strip, a bomb hit a hospital, killing about 800 people. Israel previously warned that it would bomb the hospital, since the headquarters of Hamas militants is located underneath it.

The primitive Palestinian rockets do not have sufficient explosive power to destroy an entire building. When these missiles hit a building, at best they destroy one apartment, but the building remains, and a hole from the missile remains in the wall, which is usually visible in photographs. The hospital in Gaza was completely destroyed, not a single wall remained. This is a consequence of being hit by an Israeli rocket or bomb, which is also visible in videos showing the consequences of the shelling of Gaza. It must be said that Israel’s explanations for the fall of a Palestinian rocket that collapsed a hospital building are very similar to Russia’s false explanations in the case of the downing of Malaysian Boeing flight MH-17.

SassyLady
10-19-2023, 10:36 PM
The primitive Palestinian rockets do not have sufficient explosive power to destroy an entire building. When these missiles hit a building, at best they destroy one apartment, but the building remains, and a hole from the missile remains in the wall, which is usually visible in photographs. The hospital in Gaza was completely destroyed, not a single wall remained. This is a consequence of being hit by an Israeli rocket or bomb, which is also visible in videos showing the consequences of the shelling of Gaza. It must be said that Israel’s explanations for the fall of a Palestinian rocket that collapsed a hospital building are very similar to Russia’s false explanations in the case of the downing of Malaysian Boeing flight MH-17.

You are seriously mistaken. There was minimal damage to the hospital. Your whole premise has been debunked over the last 48 hours.

Those photos you're talking about wasn't even of the hospital.

Alik Bahshi
10-20-2023, 11:30 AM
You are seriously mistaken. There was minimal damage to the hospital. Your whole premise has been debunked over the last 48 hours.

Those photos you're talking about wasn't even of the hospital.

Israel is systematically destroying hospitals in Gaza, suggesting that Hamas militants are hiding there.

Kathianne
10-20-2023, 11:31 AM
Israel is systematically destroying hospitals in Gaza, suggesting that Hamas militants are hiding there.
Now you're just trolling. Be gone!

Gunny
10-20-2023, 01:04 PM
Now you're just trolling. Be gone!What he is doing is telling us what his preferred sources are telling him. I've got him pegged as a Turk since he's got both Armenia and Israel as the "bad guys".

It's just what they believe. Look at what Hamas did to Israeli noncombatants. Not so much as a mention for the horror they suffered at the hands of extremist murderers. Israel = bad. Hamas = good. Regardless circumstance:rolleyes:

Kathianne
10-20-2023, 01:07 PM
What he is doing is telling us what his preferred sources are telling him. I've got him pegged as a Turk since he's got both Armenia and Israel as the "bad guys".

It's just what they believe. Look at what Hamas did to Israeli noncombatants. Not so much as a mention for the horror they suffered at the hands of extremist murderers. Israel = bad. Hamas = good. Regardless circumstance:rolleyes:

It's clear what happened with the hospital and there are no widespread reports of other hospitals being hit. True even from Al Jazeera. He's trolling.

Gunny
10-20-2023, 01:25 PM
It's clear what happened with the hospital and there are no widespread reports of other hospitals being hit. True even from Al Jazeera. He's trolling.Regardless what he believes and/or what has been debunked, it concerns me greatly that people in our own country are repeating the lie and refusing to accept the truth as it suits their narrative.

Tlaib, a member of the US Congress, was out with a bullhorn fomenting hate and discontent in a crowd of losers based on the lie. Apparently she's sending like Tweets. What does Dem leadership say? Jeffries fully supports Israel and hasn't seen any tweets:rolleyes:

There's something seriously wrong with people in this country.

Kathianne
10-20-2023, 01:35 PM
Regardless what he believes and/or what has been debunked, it concerns me greatly that people in our own country are repeating the lie and refusing to accept the truth as it suits their narrative.

Tlaib, a member of the US Congress, was out with a bullhorn fomenting hate and discontent in a crowd of losers based on the lie. Apparently she's sending like Tweets. What does Dem leadership say? Jeffries fully supports Israel and hasn't seen any tweets:rolleyes:

There's something seriously wrong with people in this country.
No argument here.