9,000 died in moments

[Robert A Whit]

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/15794247-death-in-the-baltic

9,000 died in minutes yet it went unreported

Death in the Baltic: The World War II Sinking of the Wilhelm Gustloffby Cathryn J. Prince (http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/792283.Cathryn_J_Prince) (Goodreads Author)
4.18 of 5 stars 4.18 · <svg width="16" height="15"><g transform="translate(0,0)"><rect cursor="" x="0" y="0" width="16" height="2" fill="rgb(33,86,37)" fill-opacity="1" stroke="none" stroke-opacity="0" stroke-width="1.5"></rect><rect cursor="" x="0" y="3" width="10" height="2" fill="rgb(33,86,37)" fill-opacity="1" stroke="none" stroke-opacity="0" stroke-width="1.5"></rect><rect cursor="" x="0" y="6" width="6" height="2" fill="rgb(33,86,37)" fill-opacity="1" stroke="none" stroke-opacity="0" stroke-width="1.5"></rect><rect cursor="" x="0" y="9" width="2" height="2" fill="rgb(33,86,37)" fill-opacity="1" stroke="none" stroke-opacity="0" stroke-width="1.5"></rect><rect cursor="" x="0" y="12" width="1e-10" height="2" fill="rgb(33,86,37)" fill-opacity="1" stroke="none" stroke-opacity="0" stroke-width="1.5"></rect></g></svg> rating details (http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/15794247-death-in-the-baltic#) · 17 ratings (http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/15794247-death-in-the-baltic#other_reviews) · 9 reviews (http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/15794247-death-in-the-baltic#other_reviews)
The worst maritime disaster ever occurred during World War II, when more than 9,000 German civilians drowned. It went unreported.

January 1945: The outcome of World War II has been determined. The Third Reich is in free fall as the Russians close in from the east. Berlin plans an eleventh-hour exodus for the German civilians trapped in the Red Army’s way. More than 10,000 w...more (http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/15794247-death-in-the-baltic#)

[Robert A Whit]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Wilhelm_Gustloff

MV Wilhelm Gustloff

(can an expert insert the photo of the ship here please?)


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The MV Wilhelm Gustloff was a German ship which was sunk on 30 January 1945 by a Soviet submarine in the Baltic Sea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltic_Sea) while evacuating German civilians, officials and military personnel from Gdynia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gdynia) (Gotenhafen), occupied Poland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_areas_annexed_by_Nazi_Germany), as theRed Army (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Army) advanced. By one estimate 9,400 people died, which would make it the largest loss of life in a single ship sinking in history (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_maritime_disasters).
Constructed as a cruise ship for the Nazi Strength Through Joy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strength_Through_Joy) organisation in 1937, she had been requisitioned by the Kriegsmarine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kriegsmarine) (German Navy) in 1939. She served as a hospital ship in 1939 and 1940. She was then assigned as a floating barracks for naval personnel in Gdynia before being put into service to transport evacuees in 1945.

[Voted4Reagan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Wilhelm_Gustloff

MV Wilhelm Gustloff

(can an expert insert the photo of the ship here please?)


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The MV Wilhelm Gustloff was a German ship which was sunk on 30 January 1945 by a Soviet submarine in the Baltic Sea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltic_Sea) while evacuating German civilians, officials and military personnel from Gdynia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gdynia) (Gotenhafen), occupied Poland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_areas_annexed_by_Nazi_Germany), as theRed Army (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Army) advanced. By one estimate 9,400 people died, which would make it the largest loss of life in a single ship sinking in history (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_maritime_disasters).
Constructed as a cruise ship for the Nazi Strength Through Joy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strength_Through_Joy) organisation in 1937, she had been requisitioned by the Kriegsmarine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kriegsmarine) (German Navy) in 1939. She served as a hospital ship in 1939 and 1940. She was then assigned as a floating barracks for naval personnel in Gdynia before being put into service to transport evacuees in 1945.

Robert...I will post your picture...

***NOTE**** THE GUSTLOFF HAD BEEN FITTED WITH WEAPONS. THIS NEGATED HER PROTECTION UNDER ALL INTERNATIONAL ACCORDS AS ONCE ARMED SHE COULD NO LONGER BE A HOSPITAL SHIP. HER SINKING HAS ALWAYS BEEN CONSIDERED LEGITIMATE.



http://www.wrecksite.eu/img/wrecks/wilhelm_gustloff_1945_kdf.jpg

[Robert A Whit]

Thank you for the photo.

As to the claims it was armed, I don't know. All I brought this up for is on weekend Book TV, a woman author was pitching her book. Given up to 9000 perished, making it the world record holder for a ship performing mercy evacuations, and few seem to know of the story. it was my intention to expose the story to the forum. I found a book on this sinking at my library and plan to read the story.

[Voted4Reagan]

Thank you for the photo.

As to the claims it was armed, I don't know. All I brought this up for is on weekend Book TV, a woman author was pitching her book. Given up to 9000 perished, making it the world record holder for a ship performing mercy evacuations, and few seem to know of the story. it was my intention to expose the story to the forum. I found a book on this sinking at my library and plan to read the story.

She was under command of the Kriegsmarine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kriegsmarine). She was ARMED. She carried Armed Troops retreating from the Soviets as well as having 88mm Anti Aircraft and Machine guns mounted on her. This changes a Ships designation to ARMED MERCHANT CRUISER and under the Geneva Convention and the Treaty of Paris of 1856 of which Germany was a Signatory power she was a completely legitimate target.

It matters not that it was a mercy mission... she was an armed merchant cruiser in service to the German Navy and she carried Armed Troops.

Do not try to blur the lines with emotional pleas about women and children being killed... They were on a WARSHIP.. Not a cruise Ship.

The Russian Sub was completely in her rights to sink her.

[Voted4Reagan]

These are the proper markings of a HOSPITAL SHIP...

RMS BRITANNIC... Sister of the TITANIC.... Sunk off Greece to Mines laid by a German Submarine.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-VnOVx_RTNXM/TcKa_FoYOkI/AAAAAAAAAUk/5613r6-dLIg/s1600/Britannic.jpg

HMHS Britannic was the third and largest Olympic-class (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympic_class_ocean_liner) ocean liner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_liner) of the White Star Line (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Star_Line). She was the sister ship of RMS Olympic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Olympic) and RMS Titanic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Titanic), and was intended to enter service as a transatlantic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transatlantic_crossings) passenger liner. She was launched just before the start of the First World War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_World_War) and was laid up at her builders in Belfast for many months before being put to use as a hospital ship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hospital_ship) in 1915. In that role she was shaken by an explosion, caused by an underwater mine, in the Kea Channel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kea_Channel) off the Greek island of Kea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kea_%28island%29) on the morning of 21 November 1916, and sank with the loss of 30 lives. There were a total of 1,066 people on board, with 1,036 survivors taken from the water and lifeboats, roughly an hour later, at 9:07 AM, the ship sank. In spite of Britannic being the biggest ship lost during the First World War, her sinking was not as tragic in terms of loss of human life as were the sinking of RMS Titanic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Titanic) and Cunard's RMS Lusitania (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Lusitania).

and another.....



http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/k16000/k17386.jpg

[Voted4Reagan]

The Hague Convention of 1907 details Hospital ship as such:
Hospital ships were covered under the Hague Convention X of 1907 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hague_Conventions_%281899_and_1907%29#Hague_Conven tion_of_1907).[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hospital_ship#cite_note-hague10-2) Article four of the Hague Convention X outlined the restrictions for a hospital ship:


Ship must be clearly marked and lighted as a hospital ship
The ship should give medical assistance to wounded personnel of all nationalities
The ship must not be used for any military purpose
The ship must not interfere with or hamper enemy combatant vessels
Belligerents, as designated by the Hague Convention, can search any hospital ship to investigate violations of the above restrictions
Belligerents will establish the location of a hospital ship


According to the San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Remo_Manual_on_International_Law_Applicable_to _Armed_Conflicts_at_Sea), a hospital ship violating legal restrictions must be duly warned and given a reasonable time limit to comply. If a hospital ship persists in violating restrictions, a belligerent is legally entitled to capture it or take other means to enforce compliance. A non-complying hospital ship may only be fired on under the following conditions:


Diversion or capture is not feasible
No other method to exercise control is available
The violations are grave enough to allow the ship to be classified as a military objective
The damage and casualties will not be disproportionate to the military advantage.

[Robert A Whit]

She was under command of the Kriegsmarine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kriegsmarine). She was ARMED. She carried Armed Troops retreating from the Soviets as well as having 88mm Anti Aircraft and Machine guns mounted on her. This changes a Ships designation to ARMED MERCHANT CRUISER and under the Geneva Convention and the Treaty of Paris of 1856 of which Germany was a Signatory power she was a completely legitimate target.

It matters not that it was a mercy mission... she was an armed merchant cruiser in service to the German Navy and she carried Armed Troops.

Do not try to blur the lines with emotional pleas about women and children being killed... They were on a WARSHIP.. Not a cruise Ship.

The Russian Sub was completely in her rights to sink her.


Who on the forum said different?

[Robert A Whit]

In war zones, on a ship with this many passengers, one should expect armed men on such a vessel.

my posts have nothing to do with the sinking being legal or not. Being a warship or not. Babies, women and adults vanished in the world's worst sea disaster.

That is the only issue here.

A video is presented for your enjoyment and education. Notice the video does not make the ship out to be a warship. When it departed, it was classified a barracks ship.


http://youtu.be/lJ0BO0b9Km4

[Robert A Whit]

The Hague Convention of 1907 details Hospital ship as such:
Hospital ships were covered under the Hague Convention X of 1907 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hague_Conventions_%281899_and_1907%29#Hague_Conven tion_of_1907).[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hospital_ship#cite_note-hague10-2) Article four of the Hague Convention X outlined the restrictions for a hospital ship:


Ship must be clearly marked and lighted as a hospital ship
The ship should give medical assistance to wounded personnel of all nationalities
The ship must not be used for any military purpose
The ship must not interfere with or hamper enemy combatant vessels
Belligerents, as designated by the Hague Convention, can search any hospital ship to investigate violations of the above restrictions
Belligerents will establish the location of a hospital ship

According to the San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Remo_Manual_on_International_Law_Applicable_to _Armed_Conflicts_at_Sea), a hospital ship violating legal restrictions must be duly warned and given a reasonable time limit to comply. If a hospital ship persists in violating restrictions, a belligerent is legally entitled to capture it or take other means to enforce compliance. A non-complying hospital ship may only be fired on under the following conditions:


Diversion or capture is not feasible
No other method to exercise control is available
The violations are grave enough to allow the ship to be classified as a military objective
The damage and casualties will not be disproportionate to the military advantage.



Who said it sailed as a hospital that final day?

It was painted naval gray and was a barracks until untied and carried few military people but well over 9,000 civilians died that evening it sunk.

The entire issue is it was the largest disaster at sea.


http://youtu.be/lJ0BO0b9Km4

[Marcus Aurelius]

the civilians should NOT have been on board, as it was an armed ship, and subject to sinking. The Germans should not have allowed the civilians on board. By allowing them, they were attempting to use them as a human shield, and the German military bears the FULL responsibility for the deaths.

[logroller]

the civilians should NOT have been on board, as it was an armed ship, and subject to sinking. The Germans should not have allowed the civilians on board. By allowing them, they were attempting to use them as a human shield, and the German military bears the FULL responsibility for the deaths.
Do you feel the same way about the rms Lusitania?

[Marcus Aurelius]

Do you feel the same way about the rms Lusitania?
If she was armed, or carrying arms, then her government is at fault and the civilians should not have been aboard.

http://history1900s.about.com/cs/worldwari/p/lusitania.htm

In 2008, divers explored the wreck of the Lusitania, situated eight miles off the coast of Ireland. On board, the divers found approximately four million U.S.-made Remington .303 bullets. The discovery supports the German's long-held belief that the Lusitania was being used to transport war materials. The find also supports the theory that it was the explosion of munitions on board that caused the second explosion on the Lusitania.


So, yes.

[jafar00]

What about the USS Liberty? Israel must have used a get out of jail free card on that one.

[Voted4Reagan]

Do you feel the same way about the rms Lusitania?

Yes... If the story is true that she carried munitions...

If not... she was illegally sunk.

[Voted4Reagan]

What about the USS Liberty? Israel must have used a get out of jail free card on that one.

Completely off topic....

We are discussing WWI and WWII.. Specifically the Gustloff and the Maritime law allowing for her sinking...

Take your topic of the Liberty and create your own thread on it.

You are just trying to disrupt this discussion Jafar..

take it elsewhere

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by jafar00 http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=649540#post649540)

What about the USS Liberty? Israel must have used a get out of jail free card on that one.


Completely off topic....

We are discussing WWI and WWII.. Specifically the Gustloff and the Maritime law allowing for her sinking...

Take your topic of the Liberty and create your own thread on it.

You are just trying to disrupt this discussion Jafar..

take it elsewhere

If jahil wants a thread on that, I'd be happy to explain why it is a completely different situation to the ones in this thread, and why he's a dumb ass for comparing them.

[Robert A Whit]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=649527#post649527)
the civilians should NOT have been on board, as it was an armed ship, and subject to sinking. The Germans should not have allowed the civilians on board. By allowing them, they were attempting to use them as a human shield, and the German military bears the FULL responsibility for the deaths.


Do you feel the same way about the rms Lusitania?

The topic has not been about hospital ships, arms on ships nor the rules of war ...

The topic is that about 9,600 died in minutes and yet the disaster is not well known.

Titanic and other such ships got far more attention for numbers of the dead, yet this particular sinking is hardly noticed.

A few have tried to recall that in minutes, so many died in one cruel evening.

[Robert A Whit]

Completely off topic....

We are discussing WWI and WWII.. Specifically the Gustloff and the Maritime law allowing for her sinking...

Take your topic of the Liberty and create your own thread on it.

You are just trying to disrupt this discussion Jafar..

take it elsewhere

No, the topic was not about the above. The topic that I introduced was the almost sudden loss of 9600 humans who only wanted to escape.
The story of the Titanic and Lusitania et al are well known. But the largest loss of life on a ship is hardly known at all.

[Marcus Aurelius]

The topic has not been about hospital ships, arms on ships nor the rules of war ...

The topic is that about 9,600 died in minutes and yet the disaster is not well known.

Titanic and other such ships got far more attention for numbers of the dead, yet this particular sinking is hardly noticed.

A few have tried to recall that in minutes, so many died in one cruel evening.

Oh. GOD.. please stop whining like a little girl. We all knew about it. Just because it isn't posted here on a daily basis doesn't mean it isn't well known.

[Marcus Aurelius]

No, the topic was not about the above. The topic that I introduced was the almost sudden loss of 9600 humans who only wanted to escape.
The story of the Titanic and Lusitania et al are well known. But the largest loss of life on a ship is hardly known at all.

Yeah, you're the only one in the world that knew about it, and it's your mission to tell the world, right?

Dumb ass. Anything to try an make yourself look relevant or important.

[aboutime]

Oh. GOD.. please stop whining like a little girl. We all knew about it. Just because it isn't posted here on a daily basis doesn't mean it isn't well known.


Marcus. Amen. I now wonder, based on the participation here on this forum, and the age of many. How many knew anything more about FDR during his four terms as President...and the UNSEEN, UNANNOUNCED physical Impairment he endured to a nation that Had No Idea he was unable to walk, or stand on his own????

Perhaps the member now announcing how 9,000 died in moments should create a Thread ANNOUNCING how FDR cheated, fooled, and Lied to the American people?????

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/15794247-death-in-the-baltic

9,000 died in minutes yet it went unreported

Death in the Baltic: The World War II Sinking of the Wilhelm Gustloff

by Cathryn J. Prince (http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/792283.Cathryn_J_Prince) (Goodreads Author)
4.18 of 5 stars 4.18 · <svg width="16" height="15"><g transform="translate(0,0)"><rect cursor="" x="0" y="0" width="16" height="2" fill="rgb(33,86,37)" fill-opacity="1" stroke="none" stroke-opacity="0" stroke-width="1.5"></rect><rect cursor="" x="0" y="3" width="10" height="2" fill="rgb(33,86,37)" fill-opacity="1" stroke="none" stroke-opacity="0" stroke-width="1.5"></rect><rect cursor="" x="0" y="6" width="6" height="2" fill="rgb(33,86,37)" fill-opacity="1" stroke="none" stroke-opacity="0" stroke-width="1.5"></rect><rect cursor="" x="0" y="9" width="2" height="2" fill="rgb(33,86,37)" fill-opacity="1" stroke="none" stroke-opacity="0" stroke-width="1.5"></rect><rect cursor="" x="0" y="12" width="1e-10" height="2" fill="rgb(33,86,37)" fill-opacity="1" stroke="none" stroke-opacity="0" stroke-width="1.5"></rect></g></svg> rating details (http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/15794247-death-in-the-baltic#) · 17 ratings (http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/15794247-death-in-the-baltic#other_reviews) · 9 reviews (http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/15794247-death-in-the-baltic#other_reviews)
The worst maritime disaster ever occurred during World War II, when more than 9,000 German civilians drowned. It went unreported.

January 1945: The outcome of World War II has been determined. The Third Reich is in free fall as the Russians close in from the east. Berlin plans an eleventh-hour exodus for the German civilians trapped in the Red Army’s way. More than 10,000 w...more (http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/15794247-death-in-the-baltic#)

unreported?

Wrong again, dumb ass...

http://www.wilhelmgustloffmuseum.com/wreck_artifacts.html
http://www.wilhelmgustloffmuseum.com/uploads/NFDT3.jpg

http://www.wilhelmgustloffmuseum.com/uploads/NFDT4.jpg

http://www.wilhelmgustloffmuseum.com/uploads/NFDT5.jpg


An original 4-page propaganda newspaper that was dropped over German troops by Allied planes during the last year of the war. Mention of the Gustloff sinking in any 'official' media source was scarce. Nachrichten für die Truppe (News for the Troops) was produced from April 1944 until the end of the war in Europe. Up to one million copies of each edition (measuring approximately 8x13 inches) were dropped over enemy lines. Unlike other propaganda intended specifically to deceive, this newspaper provided relatively accurate news reporting to gain the confidence of German soldiers. Of course, it was not all that difficult to report Allied successes during the final months of the war. Source: WilhelmGustloff.com

WilhelmGustloff.com has the edition for February 18th, 1945 and we have the next days edition for February 19th. The front page news of the Wilhelm Gustloff sinking was given nearly half of the back page in the next issue. This rare intact edition gives the follow-up news on the disaster. Before you whine like a little girl about the 'scarce' part... please realize that scarce doesn't mean 'unreported', it means under-reported. Even a monumental mental midget like you should be able to tell the difference.

[Robert A Whit]

When will Marcus stop whining like a little girl?

The topic, again is that within moments 9,600 humans perished. Papers of the Nazis reported it.

But in close to 20 years posting, I have never read any poster discussing this sinking. Most sinkings probably cost lives. But 9600 in moments?

Perhaps the video I posted will show what I am speaking of.

[aboutime]

When will Marcus stop whining like a little girl?

The topic, again is that within moments 9,600 humans perished. Papers of the Nazis reported it.

But in close to 20 years posting, I have never read any poster discussing this sinking. Most sinkings probably cost lives. But 9600 in moments?

Perhaps the video I posted will show what I am speaking of.



Robert. Do you happen to remember when the Volcano erupted outside of Naples, Italy in the early 1940's?

If you do. Why haven't you reported that here?

Seems there was a World War taking place, and reporting a Volcano during a War....was PROBABLY...UNDER REPORTED..if at all?

[Marcus Aurelius]

When will Marcus stop whining like a little girl?

The topic, again is that within moments 9,600 humans perished. Papers of the Nazis reported it.

But in close to 20 years posting, I have never read any poster discussing this sinking. Most sinkings probably cost lives. But 9600 in moments?

Perhaps the video I posted will show what I am speaking of.

No one quoted me, and Whitless claims I am on ignore. How then, did he respond to me?

Dumb ass.

Because Robert personally has not spoken to anyone online about it, it was unreported and nobody knew about it. What crap. I already proved it was reported (yes, under-reported, but reported).

You're pathetic.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Robert. Do you happen to remember when the Volcano erupted outside of Naples, Italy in the early 1940's?

If you do. Why haven't you reported that here?

Seems there was a World War taking place, and reporting a Volcano during a War....was PROBABLY...UNDER REPORTED..if at all?

I have never seen Whitless mention that volcano on this board, therefore it was never reported and no one knows about it.

QUICK! Start a thread about it so Robert doesn't!!!!!!!!!!

[aboutime]

I have never seen Whitless mention that volcano on this board, therefore it was never reported and no one knows about it.

QUICK! Start a thread about it so Robert doesn't!!!!!!!!!!


No need to steal his Thunder. I have been to Naples several times, and Vesuvius towers over the city. Quietly waiting for

someone like Robert to report on how it created Pompeii centuries earlier, in it's ashes. Oh, and that was in 1944. World War II sort of took over

the reporting.

[Robert A Whit]

About time, why do you derail topics?

This is not about volcanos nor FDR.

Try to keep up.

[aboutime]

About time, why do you derail topics?

This is not about volcanos nor FDR.

Try to keep up.


Really? Took you long enough. Now, look in your handy-dandy dictionary, and find the word "COMPREHENSION".

Then. Go back and re-read every post on this thread.

[Robert A Whit]

Marcus, nobody wants to read you whine about Robert.

Robert never was the topic despite you trying again to derail topics.

The only topic is the vast loss of life in moments that is known about by so few.

Discuss the topic.

[Robert A Whit]

Really? Took you long enough. Now, look in your handy-dandy dictionary, and find the word "COMPREHENSION".

Then. Go back and re-read every post on this thread.

In your dictionary it is about volcanos or FDR.

Sorry but it is over a huge loss of life in a matter of minutes.

Again, about time tries to make it personal and wants to ruin a good topic to take it personal.

[aboutime]

In your dictionary it is about volcanos or FDR.

Sorry but it is over a huge loss of life in a matter of minutes.

Again, about time tries to make it personal and wants to ruin a good topic to take it personal.



Funny stuff Robert. You should contact Leno. BEFORE....his last year ends.

[Robert A Whit]

Funny stuff Robert. You should contact Leno. BEFORE....his last year ends.

Abouttime

The topic is not you

The topic is not Marcus as you can see he is trying to make it about

The topic is not about Robert

Will you please abandon this topic unless you speak to the topic?

And no, it is not about Leno either.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Marcus, nobody wants to read you whine about Robert.

Robert never was the topic despite you trying again to derail topics.

The only topic is the vast loss of life in moments that is known about by so few.

Discuss the topic.

Interesting... when I address the topic, you manage to ignore the post. When I rag on you, you magically saw the post, even though no one quoted it and I am supposedly on ignore, and you respond.

Very interesting that you cannot seem to respond when the topic is addressed.

Dumb ass.

[Robert A Whit]

I quoted verbatim what the author said but somehow it is my fault that though at some point the German public was informed, to the best of my knowledge and apparently Ms. Princes knowledge, it was not reported in the US Media.

All of which causes a great angst for a couple of posters.

I quote my opening comments reflecting the authors views.

This event was not widely reported per the Author due to the Nazis trying to hold power while they were being defeated. Any Articles in German perhaps come well after the event.

The event is the dole topic. Not was it justified, nor over hospital ships. Nope, this is only about 9,600 lost lives on one evening in January 1945.

No poster was taunted by me. Yet two posters try to derail the topic to making it about me. They are advised to speak to the topic or move to a threat they like.

QUOTE (SEE POST NUMBER 1)

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...-in-the-baltic (http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/15794247-death-in-the-baltic)

9,000 died in minutes yet it went unreported

Death in the Baltic: The World War II Sinking of the Wilhelm Gustloff

by Cathryn J. Prince (http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/792283.Cathryn_J_Prince) (Goodreads Author)
4.18 of 5 stars 4.18 · <svg width="16" height="15"><g transform="translate(0,0)"><rect cursor="" x="0" y="0" width="16" height="2" fill="rgb(33,86,37)" fill-opacity="1" stroke="none" stroke-opacity="0" stroke-width="1.5"></rect><rect cursor="" x="0" y="3" width="10" height="2" fill="rgb(33,86,37)" fill-opacity="1" stroke="none" stroke-opacity="0" stroke-width="1.5"></rect><rect cursor="" x="0" y="6" width="6" height="2" fill="rgb(33,86,37)" fill-opacity="1" stroke="none" stroke-opacity="0" stroke-width="1.5"></rect><rect cursor="" x="0" y="9" width="2" height="2" fill="rgb(33,86,37)" fill-opacity="1" stroke="none" stroke-opacity="0" stroke-width="1.5"></rect><rect cursor="" x="0" y="12" width="1e-10" height="2" fill="rgb(33,86,37)" fill-opacity="1" stroke="none" stroke-opacity="0" stroke-width="1.5"></rect></g></svg> rating details (http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/15794247-death-in-the-baltic#) · 17 ratings (http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/15794247-death-in-the-baltic#other_reviews)· 9 reviews (http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/15794247-death-in-the-baltic#other_reviews)
The worst maritime disaster ever occurred during World War II, when more than 9,000 German civilians drowned. It went unreported.

January 1945: The outcome of World War II has been determined. The Third Reich is in free fall as the Russians close in from the east. Berlin plans an eleventh-hour exodus for the German civilians trapped in the Red Army’s way. More than 10,000 w...more (http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/15794247-death-in-the-baltic#)

[Robert A Whit]

I quoted verbatim what the author said but somehow it is my fault that though at some point the German public was informed, to the best of my knowledge and apparently Ms. Princes knowledge, it was not reported in the US Media.

All of which causes a great angst for a couple of posters.

I quote my opening comments reflecting the authors views.

This event was not widely reported per the Author due to the Nazis trying to hold power while they were being defeated. Any Articles in German perhaps come well after the event.

The event is the dole topic. Not was it justified, nor over hospital ships. Nope, this is only about 9,600 lost lives on one evening in January 1945.

No poster was taunted by me. Yet two posters try to derail the topic to making it about me. They are advised to speak to the topic or move to a threat they like.

QUOTE (SEE POST NUMBER 1)

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...-in-the-baltic (http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/15794247-death-in-the-baltic)

9,000 died in minutes yet it went unreported

Death in the Baltic: The World War II Sinking of the Wilhelm Gustloff

by Cathryn J. Prince (http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/792283.Cathryn_J_Prince) (Goodreads Author)
4.18 of 5 stars 4.18 · <svg width="16" height="15"><g transform="translate(0,0)"><rect cursor="" x="0" y="0" width="16" height="2" fill="rgb(33,86,37)" fill-opacity="1" stroke="none" stroke-opacity="0" stroke-width="1.5"></rect><rect cursor="" x="0" y="3" width="10" height="2" fill="rgb(33,86,37)" fill-opacity="1" stroke="none" stroke-opacity="0" stroke-width="1.5"></rect><rect cursor="" x="0" y="6" width="6" height="2" fill="rgb(33,86,37)" fill-opacity="1" stroke="none" stroke-opacity="0" stroke-width="1.5"></rect><rect cursor="" x="0" y="9" width="2" height="2" fill="rgb(33,86,37)" fill-opacity="1" stroke="none" stroke-opacity="0" stroke-width="1.5"></rect><rect cursor="" x="0" y="12" width="1e-10" height="2" fill="rgb(33,86,37)" fill-opacity="1" stroke="none" stroke-opacity="0" stroke-width="1.5"></rect></g></svg> rating details (http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/15794247-death-in-the-baltic#) · 17 ratings (http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/15794247-death-in-the-baltic#other_reviews)· 9 reviews (http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/15794247-death-in-the-baltic#other_reviews)
The worst maritime disaster ever occurred during World War II, when more than 9,000 German civilians drowned. It went unreported.

January 1945: The outcome of World War II has been determined. The Third Reich is in free fall as the Russians close in from the east. Berlin plans an eleventh-hour exodus for the German civilians trapped in the Red Army’s way. More than 10,000 w...more (http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/15794247-death-in-the-baltic#)

Shoving to the cage was what Marcus and About time worked to accomplish.

But it is nothing more than an act of censorship by whomever put it into the cage.

[jimnyc]

Shoving to the cage was what Marcus and About time worked to accomplish.

But it is nothing more than an act of censorship by whomever put it into the cage.

You fought just as much as others. No censoring as you can all still continue the fighting crap down here. If you don't like it, tough shit, go post somewhere else where they will tolerate CRAP all around the board. I told you point blank in PM that since you claimed to place people on ignore, and didn't really do so, and then continue to fight - that I was done with intervening and trying to "talk" people into ignoring, and I told you that going forward there would be no discussion. Be happy I didn't thread ban everyone fighting instead of moving.

Let me know if you wish to continue your perpetual complaining and fighting with others, I'll be glad to give links to other boards to anyone who would prefer to fight than use the ignore function.

[Robert A Whit]

You fought just as much as others. No censoring as you can all still continue the fighting crap down here. If you don't like it, tough shit, go post somewhere else where they will tolerate CRAP all around the board. I told you point blank in PM that since you claimed to place people on ignore, and didn't really do so, and then continue to fight - that I was done with intervening and trying to "talk" people into ignoring, and I told you that going forward there would be no discussion. Be happy I didn't thread ban everyone fighting instead of moving.

Let me know if you wish to continue your perpetual complaining and fighting with others, I'll be glad to give links to other boards to anyone who would prefer to fight than use the ignore function.

I am well aware you will always put the blame just on me.

However, I should not be forced to ignore any poster.

Seems to me the people that picked the fight was not me.

I hoped when they started it you would tell them something only to keep counting their taunts and finding you kept allowing them to keep doing it.

Fine, put the blame on me. No, they decided this is the best way to make sure my posts don't get discussed by knowing you will put them in the cage. I don't like fighting. Why don't you get that Jim?

Look, you replied to me. Is that fighting? When I operate that same way, you claim I am fighting.

Jim, you claim in your rules you allow spirited discussion. Why not now?

A loss of 9600 lives belongs in the cage?

Others pulled it off topic.

I have seen you sternly tell posters to stay on topic.

Not this time.

It is me afterall.

Who are you pissed at?

About time or Marcus?

No, I am the only one you are pissed off at and this because they kept the shit flowing.

I was watching to see if you would warn them.

But nope, did not happen.

Look, taking it out on me won't stop them.

[logroller]

Oh. GOD.. please stop whining like a little girl. We all knew about it. Just because it isn't posted here on a daily basis doesn't mean it isn't well known.


Yeah, you're the only one in the world that knew about it, and it's your mission to tell the world, right?

Dumb ass. Anything to try an make yourself look relevant or important.
We all heard about...nobody heard about it....the one with an issue is you. Chillax dude.

unreported?

Wrong again, dumb ass...

http://www.wilhelmgustloffmuseum.com/wreck_artifacts.html
http://www.wilhelmgustloffmuseum.com/uploads/NFDT3.jpg

http://www.wilhelmgustloffmuseum.com/uploads/NFDT4.jpg

http://www.wilhelmgustloffmuseum.com/uploads/NFDT5.jpg

Before you whine like a little girl about the 'scarce' part... please realize that scarce doesn't mean 'unreported', it means under-reported. Even a monumental mental midget like you should be able to tell the difference.
Personally, I had not heard about it until he posted this thread. It may not be as deserving of public interest as a neighborhood dispute over an eyesore but, nonetheless, I'm glad he shared it.

[Robert A Whit]

We all heard about...nobody heard about it....the one with an issue is you. Chillax dude.

Personally, I had not heard about it until he posted this thread. It may not be as deserving of public interest as a neighborhood dispute over an eyesore but, nonetheless, I'm glad he shared it.

Thank you Logroller on that and your kind statement ******edited by logroller*******

As a new admin, that means a lot to me.

Since I can read German, that paper was to the German military and was dated 3+ weeks past the sinking.

The author stated it was unreported and all I did was quote her precise remarks.

Now that this is gone to cage heaven, I suppose the topic is done.

Too bad too.

Also, I have no further comments over this going to cage heaven.

[jimnyc]

I am well aware you will always put the blame just on me.

However, I should not be forced to ignore any poster.

Seems to me the people that picked the fight was not me.

I hoped when they started it you would tell them something only to keep counting their taunts and finding you kept allowing them to keep doing it.

Fine, put the blame on me. No, they decided this is the best way to make sure my posts don't get discussed by knowing you will put them in the cage. I don't like fighting. Why don't you get that Jim?

Look, you replied to me. Is that fighting? When I operate that same way, you claim I am fighting.

Jim, you claim in your rules you allow spirited discussion. Why not now?

A loss of 9600 lives belongs in the cage?

Others pulled it off topic.

I have seen you sternly tell posters to stay on topic.

Not this time.

It is me afterall.

Who are you pissed at?

About time or Marcus?

No, I am the only one you are pissed off at and this because they kept the shit flowing.

I was watching to see if you would warn them.

But nope, did not happen.

Look, taking it out on me won't stop them.

Please write normal paragraphs. I don't want to deal with your perpetual complaining - and I also don't want to injure my eyes. Never mind, write however you like. I don't want you to think that if you learn how to write like an adult, that I might somehow change my mind.

I speak out to all of those involved in fights and long time feuds. You are mostly the only one who perpetually complains. Go back to your last few PM's from me and read them again. After your last round of refusals, I explained how things were going to be. If you want to keep playing with those in the mud, you too are going to end up dirty. I don't give a flying fuck who started it in this thread. By the time I did get here though, you were replying to them and making the thread shit just as much.

You are ALL adults. You are ALL EQUALLY GUILTY.

I spoke out to only you, because I moved the thread here and didn't say a word. YOU summoned a response, not anyone else.

If you all want to continue shitting in threads, then learn to deal with threads being moved or perhaps being banned from threads.