***debate is over- cast your vote***

[Voted4Reagan]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?41629-Arab-World-or-America-who-needs-to-change

WHO WON???

Opinions and Analysis Welcome!

[Marcus Aurelius]

analysis here, or in debate thread itself?

[Robert A Whit]

I would love to have voted had the topic been a lot better defined and each party arguing about the same thing.

Sure, they did at points match up. But it seems when one argues from one base and the other from a different base, it clears up little.

I pass.

[Voted4Reagan]

analysis here, or in debate thread itself?

Vote there... Comment Here

[Marcus Aurelius]

Vote there... Comment Here

You won from almost the first post. The topic was agreed to ahead of time. You stuck to it in each post, Alik did not. In fact, he complained about the topic he had agreed to in a few posts. You used sources other than your own writings, while Alik primarily mentioned his many 'articles' as source material. You covered a wide variety of related topics on change in America, and in the Mid-east, while Alik barely touched on them.

It's blatently obvious you won. However, I have my doubts that Alik will agree.

[jimnyc]

Please try and keep discussion in this thread and the debate thread "clean". I moved Robert's post here. I don't think it would be fair to have the criticism and such of either person, or any other posts in that thread. It's actually a rule in the debate threads, but no biggie, let's just try and keep them here for now.

[Voted4Reagan]

You won from almost the first post. The topic was agreed to ahead of time. You stuck to it in each post, Alik did not. In fact, he complained about the topic he had agreed to in a few posts. You used sources other than your own writings, while Alik primarily mentioned his many 'articles' as source material. You covered a wide variety of related topics on change in America, and in the Mid-east, while Alik barely touched on them.

It's blatently obvious you won. However, I have my doubts that Alik will agree.


I doubt he will.... Alik is just pushing his poorly written piles of puppy poop and propoganda on us.

He brings no higher thought to the table. He is truly uninformed and totally indoctrinated.

[Voted4Reagan]

I would love to have voted had the topic been a lot better defined and each party arguing about the same thing.

Sure, they did at points match up. But it seems when one argues from one base and the other from a different base, it clears up little.

I pass.

I took you off Ignore to ask you a few questions.

Did I stray from the Topic of discussion?

Did I Argue my side of the debate?

Did my opponent try changing his argument from the second post on?

The Only reason you could even put forth that statement Robert is because you have never learned to debate yourself. You Argue.

I presented my position consistently and without Insult to my opponent. I cited Facts consistent with my Argument to support it.

You simply dont know the structure of a debate...

All you know is how to Argue

[Robert A Whit]

I took you off Ignore to ask you a few questions.

Did I stray from the Topic of discussion?

Did I Argue my side of the debate?

Did my opponent try changing his argument from the second post on?

The Only reason you could even put forth that statement Robert is because you have never learned to debate yourself. You Argue.

I presented my position consistently and without Insult to my opponent. I cited Facts consistent with my Argument to support it.

You simply dont know the structure of a debate...

All you know is how to Argue

The only people i ignore are those who remain such chicken shits it is not possible to talk to them. And at times I have thought of putting you on ignore.

But since I read you and you asked very good questions,. I feel I owe you that much.

I believe you gave some outstanding arguments. And his I had more problems with.

I analyzed both of you and noticed it was as if you were sword fighting a guy who was not in the same room as you and vice versa.

Each had his points. But they simply did not address the real heart of the matter.

Don't shoot me for telling you my opinion.

Since you run me down as usual, I did not stick to your questions to reply. If you are half as smart as you think you are, you can figure it out.

As to debate structure, the idea is to clear up some points and make a case. You two were talking about different things. Seems since it was his topic to begin with, his points needed more addressing.

For the dim witted, let me say this.

His topic was over Israel and peace in the area and why he thinks it fails.

Your topic was how great America is and how much it changes.

[aboutime]

Pardon double post.

[aboutime]

Nobody won anything. If at all. The forum lost due to a stranger who accepted the challenged to Debate, and nothing happened since it was rather One-sided. Our member complied and responded, while the other stranger only managed to continue being nothing but a self-serving, selfish member who decided only his words were important.

So. I call it a Win for SPAM.

Great job for the REAL Member.

IMO....Of course.

[Robert A Whit]

Nobody won anything. If at all. The forum lost due to a stranger who accepted the challenged to Debate, and nothing happened since it was rather One-sided. Our member complied and responded, while the other stranger only managed to continue being nothing but a self-serving, selfish member who decided only his words were important.

So. I call it a Win for SPAM.

Great job for the REAL Member.

IMO....Of course.

Not so fast. It resolved nothing. That is why I said I pass.

First, the newcomer in my view is from a muslim supporting area or at least slanted that way.

He put down Bush. I expected V4R to rap his knuckles and handle him. But he punted.
He went on to praise Obama. I gagged yet did not see V4R handle him.

I did not believe his argument proved in any fashion that Bush was bad but Obama is good. Obama sides with the Muslims and it is my view the Alik guy sides with them too.

V4R did very well on his topic. But it was not his topic. The other guy, probably somebody who lives in a former Soviet satellite or came from there views the problem as muslim vs Jew.

V4R shot back on the formation of Israel and gave a good account of Ben Gurion.

Suddenly it was over but nothing was resolved. Not the important points at any rate.

Personally, having talked to many Muslims about this issue and some Jews that devoutly support Israel, this problem is so severe that since 1947, the argument persists.

These two posters showed no path to peace.

I felt the arguments rated well overall due to limitations of the other guy on language (he stuck to his view this country must change to obtain peace there) and probably US history, but just did not give me an ahhhhh haaaa moment. I hoped somebody who could argue both sides might present some solution.

Alas, nothing like that happened.

People from Palestine i have spoken on this with over some hours of debate just can't come to grips with how it now is. How it was once matters not.

They can't live in the past of the Ottoman or Brits holding that area. Some Palestinians did actually own land and they actually had some villages. This was not addressed.

An Arab I know who worked his life as an airline pilot flying in that area just won't have a thing to do unless the Jews move out. I try to seldom talk to him since he is very passionate and sees the Jews as the only problem.

[Voted4Reagan]

Not so fast. It resolved nothing. That is why I said I pass.

First, the newcomer in my view is from a muslim supporting area or at least slanted that way.

He put down Bush. I expected V4R to rap his knuckles and handle him. But he punted.
He went on to praise Obama. I gagged yet did not see V4R handle him.

I did not believe his argument proved in any fashion that Bush was bad but Obama is good. Obama sides with the Muslims and it is my view the Alik guy sides with them too.

V4R did very well on his topic. But it was not his topic. The other guy, probably somebody who lives in a former Soviet satellite or came from there views the problem as muslim vs Jew.

V4R shot back on the formation of Israel and gave a good account of Ben Gurion.

Suddenly it was over but nothing was resolved. Not the important points at any rate.

Personally, having talked to many Muslims about this issue and some Jews that devoutly support Israel, this problem is so severe that since 1947, the argument persists.

These two posters showed no path to peace.

I felt the arguments rated well overall due to limitations of the other guy on language (he stuck to his view this country must change to obtain peace there) and probably US history, but just did not give me an ahhhhh haaaa moment. I hoped somebody who could argue both sides might present some solution.

Alas, nothing like that happened.

People from Palestine i have spoken on this with over some hours of debate just can't come to grips with how it now is. How it was once matters not.

They can't live in the past of the Ottoman or Brits holding that area. Some Palestinians did actually own land and they actually had some villages. This was not addressed.

An Arab I know who worked his life as an airline pilot flying in that area just won't have a thing to do unless the Jews move out. I try to seldom talk to him since he is very passionate and sees the Jews as the only problem.


Robert... We were discussing the Premise that he put forward of AMERICA MUST CHANGE.

Not his little piece of Palestinian Puppy Poop Propaganda.

It was the IDEA we were supposed to talk about..I said ARABS must Change

He never debated... You didnt read Jimmys post.

[Robert A Whit]

Robert... We were discussing the Premise that he put forward of AMERICA MUST CHANGE.

Not his little piece of Palestinian Puppy Poop Propaganda.

It was the IDEA we were supposed to talk about..I said ARABS must Change

He never debated... You didnt read Jimmys post.

I read Jimmy's post as well this guys opening statement.

Then you two went off topic.

I gave you points and him point when the two of you stuck to the argument.

America must change or Arabs must change is far too broad to argue over.

He pointed to our presidents. I expected you to not let him get away with that.

Sadly you did.

[Voted4Reagan]

I read Jimmy's post as well this guys opening statement.

Then you two went off topic.

I gave you points and him point when the two of you stuck to the argument.

America must change or Arabs must change is far too broad to argue over.

He pointed to our presidents. I expected you to not let him get away with that.

Sadly you did.

Back on ignore you go...

[Drummond]

You won from almost the first post. The topic was agreed to ahead of time. You stuck to it in each post, Alik did not. In fact, he complained about the topic he had agreed to in a few posts. You used sources other than your own writings, while Alik primarily mentioned his many 'articles' as source material. You covered a wide variety of related topics on change in America, and in the Mid-east, while Alik barely touched on them.

It's blatently obvious you won. However, I have my doubts that Alik will agree.

I've barely got anything to add to Marcus's post, other than you, V4R, were the clear winner throughout (my vote is there in the total, which right now shows no votes for Alik). I agree with Marcus's argument.

I think Alik tried hard to box you into narrow parameters of his own, self-serving, choosing. He failed, you prevailed with better arguments, you won hands down.

[Robert A Whit]

I've barely got anything to add to Marcus's post, other than you, V4R, were the clear winner throughout (my vote is there in the total, which right now shows no votes for Alik). I agree with Marcus's argument.

I think Alik tried hard to box you into narrow parameters of his own, self-serving, choosing. He failed, you prevailed with better arguments, you won hands down.

Drummond my friend.

Explain to me which points were won by each?

A sweeping statement such as America must change vs Arabs must change is too broad.

I give Reagan points for his argument and to pay me back, he posts the tripe that he put me back on ignore.

I am not appealing to his vast ego nor Marcus outrageous ego.

I am not trying to be a hard ass. But the premise was too flawed or else they would have had points to stick to.

Maybe you can explain it to me.

The other guy wanted to debate the way the situation is happening vs Israel's interests. But we got a debate over Algebra and other things having not a thing to do with the Jew vs Palestinian question that is currently, per the foreign guy being well handled by Obama.

Were I in Reagan's shoes I would have taken him to task on that point.

Obama will not come close to solving this.

[Robert A Whit]

Back on ignore you go...

You will be in the bin soon enough. You can't even hold your own with me.

[aboutime]

Drummond my friend.

Explain to me which points were won by each?

A sweeping statement such as America must change vs Arabs must change is too broad.

I give Reagan points for his argument and to pay me back, he posts the tripe that he put me back on ignore.

I am not appealing to his vast ego nor Marcus outrageous ego.

I am not trying to be a hard ass. But the premise was too flawed or else they would have had points to stick to.

Maybe you can explain it to me.

The other guy wanted to debate the way the situation is happening vs Israel's interests. But we got a debate over Algebra and other things having not a thing to do with the Jew vs Palestinian question that is currently, per the foreign guy being well handled by Obama.

Were I in Reagan's shoes I would have taken him to task on that point.

Obama will not come close to solving this.



​Here we go again! Perhaps you, Robert, would like to explain that?

[Robert A Whit]

​Here we go again! Perhaps you, Robert, would like to explain that?

You mean, here you go again.

This conversation you intruded in is between me and my friend Drummond.

[Marcus Aurelius]

You will be in the bin soon enough. You can't even hold your own with me.

No woman would hold yours, so you HAVE to hold your own.

Now, regarding the debate... V4R was perfectly on topic the entire time. The original challenge was a debate on who had to change, America or Arabs.


ALIK BAHSHI... I am offering to debate this with you one on one.

My proposal:

I will take the Position that it is the Arab World that needs to change.

You will take the Position that it United States and the Western Countries that need to change.

Debate to be Moderated by:

JimyNYC
Tyr Ziu Saxnot
Logroller
FJ1200
WiccanLiberal

Each Moderator will review the debate and vote for a winner after 2 weeks.

The debate will be One on One... just you and me...

Do you accept?



That was the topic Alik accepted, but he never tried to debate it. Instead, he kept harping on his own 'articles'. If you can't see V4R stayed on that topic throughout and Alik never got there, then you're a bigger fool than we all thought.


This is turning into yet another of Robert's 'Hey, this isn't about me, so I'll make it about me' threads. Fucking pathetic.

[Voted4Reagan]

This is turning into yet another of Robert's 'Hey, this isn't about me, so I'll make it about me' threads. Fucking pathetic.

Seems Robert has a bad case of Middle Child Syndrome...

Kind of like Jan on the BRADY BUNCH.


I can see him sitting theree stomping his feet going...


Why is it always about MARCUS MARCUS MARCUS!!!

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

[Marcus Aurelius]

Seems Robert has a bad case of Middle Child Syndrome...

Kind of like Jan on the BRADY BUNCH.


I can see him sitting theree stomping his feet going...


Why is it always about MARCUS MARCUS MARCUS!!!

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yZHveWFvqM

[Voted4Reagan]

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7634117632/h7D19E0D9/

[Robert A Whit]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Voted4Reagan http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=649581#post649581)
ALIK BAHSHI... I am offering to debate this with you one on one.

My proposal:

I will take the Position that it is the Arab World that needs to change.

You will take the Position that it United States and the Western Countries that need to change.

Change Algebra?

There was NO defined purpose to such an argument. Change what? About what?

Alik spoke of the Jew vs Palestinian problem. Even the child Reagan noticed that so he commented on Ben Gurion.

It was a pointless exercise in jacking off.

I never said that the child Reagan did not make good points. But about what?

Reagan rambled on about the founding. That is called history.

I wish that Marcus and Reagan stopped pouting over this.

It was not about me Marcus until you tried to make it so.

Stop making posts about me. I don't like it.

Final comment I hope by me.

The issue was Palestinians vs Jews. Maybe none of you saw Alik speaking of that.

Reagan must have not understood Alik's basic premise.

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Voted4Reagan http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=649581#post649581)
ALIK BAHSHI... I am offering to debate this with you one on one.

My proposal:

I will take the Position that it is the Arab World that needs to change.

You will take the Position that it United States and the Western Countries that need to change.

Change Algebra?

There was NO defined purpose to such an argument. Change what? About what?

Alik spoke of the Jew vs Palestinian problem. Even the child Reagan noticed that so he commented on Ben Gurion.

It was a pointless exercise in jacking off.

I never said that the child Reagan did not make good points. But about what?

Reagan rambled on about the founding. That is called history.

I wish that Marcus and Reagan stopped pouting over this.

It was not about me Marcus until you tried to make it so.

Stop making posts about me. I don't like it.

Final comment I hope by me.

The issue was Palestinians vs Jews. Maybe none of you saw Alik speaking of that.

Reagan must have not understood Alik's basic premise.


First, Learn to use the QUOTE feature, dumb ass.

Second, YOU appear to be the ONLY person NOT smart enough to understand what the debate was to be about. Alik understood and agreed, but did not follow through because he had an agenda.

What's YOUR excuse, dumb ass?

[fj1200]

Second, YOU appear to be the ONLY person NOT smart enough to understand what the debate was to be about. Alik understood and agreed, but did not follow through because he had an agenda.

The debate statement was overly vague and lacked context IMO. Alik understood it to be one specific thing that he listed in his opening statement and given that the debate request was made within his other thread it's understandable that he continued on that line.

I'd say the debate was a train wreck from the beginning but it doesn't even seem like they were on the same track.

[Robert A Whit]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=650407#post650407)
Second, YOU appear to be the ONLY person NOT smart enough to understand what the debate was to be about. Alik understood and agreed, but did not follow through because he had an agenda.


The debate statement was overly vague and lacked context IMO. Alik understood it to be one specific thing that he listed in his opening statement and given that the debate request was made within his other thread it's understandable that he continued on that line.

I'd say the debate was a train wreck from the beginning but it doesn't even seem like they were on the same track.

Absolutely correct. They finally took on the actual topic in some other thread. But Reagan won't see my remarks.

Alik has one issue. Israel vs the Palestinians. I believe he came from Turkey and knock me in my head if I am wrong, but I don't believe they qualify as Arabs.

I could tell by Alik,s comments they were far apart in actual issues.

What the hell has Algebra got to do with shit. It is understood that Algebra originated in the Arab world but more important math has came from Europe. To wit, Calculus a far more powerful tool came from Europe.

What has our founders and what we did got to do with Palestinian issues or the Jews?

Somebody erred by trying to make it Arabs vs the USA.

I have come to the conclusion that Alik is not even an Arab and he says he does not believe in religion. I think the man is a Turk.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

You won from almost the first post. The topic was agreed to ahead of time. You stuck to it in each post, Alik did not. In fact, he complained about the topic he had agreed to in a few posts. You used sources other than your own writings, while Alik primarily mentioned his many 'articles' as source material. You covered a wide variety of related topics on change in America, and in the Mid-east, while Alik barely touched on them.

It's blatently obvious you won. However, I have my doubts that Alik will agree. I have to agree with that. V4R STAYED ON TOPIC AND PRESENTED AN ORDERLY AND WELL THOUGHT OUT DEFENSE OF HIS POSITION. The fact that his opponent did not do the same is not his fault. As he did admonish Alik to stick to the agreed upon topic. V4R CLEARLY WON IMHO. If rating it by a point system I'd say it came in as a 9 to 1 victory for V4R.. -Tyr

[tailfins]

Just a reminder: When you're busy talking, debating, opining, you're not DOING. Plenty of time has passed to get over the election loss. It's time to get to work! Don't forget that amnesty isn't buried yet!

[Voted4Reagan]

I have to agree with that. V4R STAYED ON TOPIC AND PRESENTED AN ORDERLY AND WELL THOUGHT OUT DEFENSE OF HIS POSITION. The fact that his opponent did not do the same is not his fault. As he did admonish Alik to stick to the agreed upon topic. V4R CLEARLY WON IMHO. If rating it by a point system I'd say it came in as a 9 to 1 victory for V4R.. -TyrT

TY Old Friend...

:beer:

[aboutime]

T

TY Old Friend...

:beer:


Ditto! Withholding all comment in attempts to refrain from causing DERAILING, per the ROBERT machine.

[Voted4Reagan]

Ditto! Withholding all comment in attempts to refrain from causing DERAILING, per the ROBERT machine.

Sometime it's impossible not to get SALTY with him....:laugh:

[Marcus Aurelius]

did we get a final verdict from the judges?

[fj1200]

did we get a final verdict from the judges?

Yup, Jim posted in the debate thread. It was more of a 4-0-1 though.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Yup, Jim posted in the debate thread. It was more of a 4-0-1 though.

Jim has it at 5-0 for V4R. You think someone was just going with the crowd?:eek:

[fj1200]

Jim has it at 5-0 for V4R. You think someone was just going with the crowd?:eek:

No. I'm pretty sure more voted than the "official" 5. I think he assumed I was part of it but there wasn't an option for clusterF* so I abstained.