Bow season!!!

[red state]

Well, BOW SEASON is just two months away (or LESS) depending on where you live so I'd like to start a thread on what my wife and I saw while headed back home yesterday (July 30, 2013). Forgive the photo...we never stopped completely because another guy behind us had also spotted them and pulled over to scope them with his binoculars. This made them very uneasy and the guy would have been better serving to both of he and ourselves had he went on by, turned around and made a more careful approach. They were just about to head out when the photos were taken because the egghead actually started driving the adjacent field to get closer. The five bucks and three other deer with the five (doe or button heads) did not like his approach at all. These deer were not too far from our pastor's property or a major college. They were actually within 500 yards of the college.

Anyway, as an archer ONLY my last hunt with a rifle was back in 2006 or 07 but I've never put a bow down...just love it too much. I'm not as KraZy as I once was in my earlier days but I still get the fever....much like those who have long awaited the Fall Football Season. In fact, opening day still gives me those butterflies I got just before a big game and for those who have played sports or had a part in a play, you know exactly what that type of anxiety can bring. In closing, I hope this thread will bring like-minded individuals closer together and I encourage participation throughout the hunting year (whether your preference is with a gun, bow or cross bow).

I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say that WE look forward to anyone's scout photos, stories or wisdom in preparing for the coming BOW SEASON!

~Red State

[red state]

Again, forgive the photo of the deer from yesterday....
5342

5343
7-30-13 2006 last "gun buck"

5345
My son's FIRST bow kill. (Nov. 2007)

[Marcus Aurelius]

'Bo knows'...

http://www.chronicletimes.com/photos/10/70/38/1070383-L.jpg

[Jeff]

Nice Deer !!!
We start down here I think the middle of September with primitive arms and Bow , I haven't hunted since leaving SC but I am thinking of putting up a stand in the yard this year, I have 4 acres with a creek that run through the back and the deer walk through there all the time, a guy down the street has taken many out of the his yard that is the same as mine, I was concerned because although we have (I think) it is like 31/2 to 5 acre lots here it is still kind of close, but this guy assures me they walk all the time there , so I walked down there and sure enough Buck and doe tracks everywhere , heck I had a little ones tracks right in front of my shop , and the law is no hunting within 100 yards of the closest dwelling , so I may need to give it a shot.

I have never hunted with a Bow but think that is how I will go , all I have talked to have assured me if I ever do I wont want to go back to a rifle and with houses as close as they are I think a Bow is the way to go .

I really Miss SC when hunting comes along, there season is from August 1 to January 1 and you can shoot a Buck everyday , as for does they have special Does days where you may take 2 on that day or if you own enough land or hunt with someone that does ya get Doe tags so there is always plenty of time to thin them out a bit

[red state]

Jeff, I've always told folks to not make the same mistakes that I've made over the many years of hunting (or, in general, bow hunting). One of these mistakes is to believe that you need some sort of a plantation or THOUSANDS of gov. land to hunt. This simply isn't true and if you have ONE acre in the right spot....you can do FAR better on that one acre than with thousands of mediocre acres. In fact,

As for laws in hunting FROM or around houses or other structures, we can get into legalities if you like. I don't agree with such things (unless you plan to hunt just 20 yards from your street light. HA! I know an ole redneck boy who brags about the deer around his house where they feed under the street light. He says he's killed many of them while they ate the acorns at night. I frown on such things and usually just listen to him. I knew that he'd eventually wear out his welcome.....and he did by killing the 15 to 20 or so deer that he once had coming to his house. Still, I don't agree with stupid laws and one of them is in what you have mentioned. If you have a house in the middle of nowhere and wish to take a deer (without going out in the weather) I'm all for it (if you take the deer honorably). I am also against laws that are unConstitutional (such as the NO LOADED GUN during deer season law). Many folks can't afford a pistol or simply don't like them and may have a rifle for self preservation. This idiotic law was made for "bad apples" and to make it easier for game officials to catch "bad apples". It is also another way to create "revenue" so I have no doubts about the unConstitutionality of this law. Another law that I can't stand is the "primitive weapon" law. In some States, it is highly illegal to take a crossbow during "primitive weapon" season......and even during the RIFLE SEASON. Some States have gotten better but most still "regulate" crossbows unfairly. I suspect this is so it would be easier for a game official to HEAR what one is doing and as we all know, a crossbow is a GREAT mid-range weapon with virtually NO sound. I prefer a bow but I also like a crossbow ever since I got one for my son (who was too young for a 45 or 50 cal muzzle-loader). I HATE muzzle loaders by the way....never could shoot one well enough to have confidence. This brings me to my next point about crossbow regulations. They highly regulate crossbows YET allow single shot, long distance RIFLES during primitive/so-called muzzle loader season and this is plain WRONG and highly STUPID. I know I have ranted on but, Jeff, you brought legality up so I wanted to deal with that. This thread is truly for anything that one would like to ask or share with others.

Jeff, you mentioned that you are a first time bow hunter so I'd suggest you ask yourself a few questions first:
One: How serious am I on this quest?
Two: What type bow would I enjoy more?
Three: What am I willing to invest?

My reply to question #1 would be in a bit of advice. If you do ANYTHING, do it to the best of your ability. This means getting a bow that you are comfortable with and practice, Practice, PRACTICE. Know you're limits in cost, time and ability. You don't have to get "the best" but you need to take it serious enough to avoid JUNK.
As for question #2, I'd suggest you try a few bows out (especially if you have friends who bowhunt already). If not, you can always talk with a dealer. Many will even allow you to shoot a few bows and let you be the judge. As for the types of bows, there are far too many to discuss at this point but you have two main catagories to consider: TRADITIONAL and Modern. Each have sub-catogories but you'll need to know if you want to hold a bow that man held long ago or use an item that may provide more benefits (and I do hate using the word benefits but that is exactly the case). With traditional bows such as recurve, long bow and a few others in between, you'll definitely need to practice more and get in shape more cuz the bow is part of you and relies ONLY on your strength, consintration and natural ability. You can equipt such bows with modern "xtras" but you'll still need to practice pulling it back and holding it steady with a mastery of the same, exact release each time. Otherwise, you need to forget about it. The better choice that renders more benefit with less amount of time or physical ability would be modern bows such as compounds. They can be simplified depending on "let-off" or doing without all the bells and whistles OR you can go all out and bolt just about everything imaginable to them with as high a "LET OFF" as 90%. Let-off is that amount that the bow will assist in holding at full draw and usually kicks in during the drawing process. I can shoot instinctively with ALL forms of archery or use the most advanced systems but I prefer a 60# Darton Excell at 65%-75% let-off for hunting or tournament shooting. I've taken many deer with this particular brand and videoed quite a bit of these hunts (including a nice, unusually beautiful 8pt with 6" brow tines). I've also taken many deer with a 55-60lbs Martin Lynx and a beautiful (but expensive) Martin Maverick at 90# with 80% let-off. I sold both because I prefer the simplicity, speed, smoothness and reliability of the DARTONS (made in Michigan I believe). Anyway, you've got a lot of research to do and little time to apply everything you need before mid-Sept or OCTOBER. As a general rule.....especially with your just now getting into this, I'd suggest a second hand bow on Ebay and practice at TWICE the distance that you're willing to actually make on a deer. You may get VERY good at 30 yds (for example) but a lot comes into play when a deer walks up....especially if that deer is a monster. HA!!! So, at 30yds of practice, I'd try for a 12-15 yard shot at a deer. In fact, most of my deer have been taken at 12 yards. As thick as it gets around here, I don't like those longer, "IFY" shots. Too much can happen and I'd rather play it safe and see or hear one go down (rather than spend all day or all night looking for an animal that was not shot within a perfect kill zone). If you plan to go the TYR route and use a two sticks and a string, I would like to say that I bought my son a Samich sage two Christmas's ago and it is a cheap, brand new bow that shoots surprisingly well....just don't get one with too much muscle because it'll take a great deal of muscle. HA! 45 pounds is PLENTY to kill a deer and if you've never shot before....you'll quickly feel that 45 pounds after practicing. HA!!!!

Anyway, thanks for posting....If I can help in any way, I'll certainly do so.

PS: below is a Samick Sage (South Korean Bow) Of course, Tyr has some OLDIES but GOODIES that cost 10 times what this brand new one costs.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/clubkidcarlos/rbow1.jpg

[Jeff]

[QUOTE=red state;655296]Jeff, I've always told folks to not make the same mistakes that I've made over the many years of hunting (or, in general, bow hunting). One of these mistakes is to believe that you need some sort of a plantation or THOUSANDS of gov. land to hunt. This simply isn't true and if you have ONE acre in the right spot....you can do FAR better on that one acre than with thousands of mediocre acres. In fact,

As for laws in hunting FROM or around houses or other structures, we can get into legalities if you like. I don't agree with such things (unless you plan to hunt just 20 yards from your street light. HA! I know an ole redneck boy who brags about the deer around his house where they feed under the street light. He says he's killed many of them while they ate the acorns at night. I frown on such things and usually just listen to him. I knew that he'd eventually wear out his welcome.....and he did by killing the 15 to 20 or so deer that he once had coming to his house. Still, I don't agree with stupid laws and one of them is in what you have mentioned. If you have a house in the middle of nowhere and wish to take a deer (without going out in the weather) I'm all for it (if you take the deer honorably). I am also against laws that are unConstitutional (such as the NO LOADED GUN during deer season law). Many folks can't afford a pistol or simply don't like them and may have a rifle for self preservation. This idiotic law was made for "bad apples" and to make it easier for game officials to catch "bad apples". It is also another way to create "revenue" so I have no doubts about the unConstitutionality of this law. Another law that I can't stand is the "primitive weapon" law. In some States, it is highly illegal to take a crossbow during "primitive weapon" season......and even during the RIFLE SEASON. Some States have gotten better but most still "regulate" crossbows unfairly. I suspect this is so it would be easier for a game official to HEAR what one is doing and as we all know, a crossbow is a GREAT mid-range weapon with virtually NO sound. I prefer a bow but I also like a crossbow ever since I got one for my son (who was too young for a 45 or 50 cal muzzle-loader). I HATE muzzle loaders by the way....never could shoot one well enough to have confidence. This brings me to my next point about crossbow regulations. They highly regulate crossbows YET allow single shot, long distance RIFLES during primitive/so-called muzzle loader season and this is plain WRONG and highly STUPID. I know I have ranted on but, Jeff, you brought legality up so I wanted to deal with that. This thread is truly for anything that one would like to ask or share with others.

Jeff, you mentioned that you are a first time bow hunter so I'd suggest you ask yourself a few questions first:
One: How serious am I on this quest?
Two: What type bow would I enjoy more?
Three: What am I willing to invest?

My reply to question #1 would be in a bit of advice. If you do ANYTHING, do it to the best of your ability. This means getting a bow that you are comfortable with and practice, Practice, PRACTICE. Know you're limits in cost, time and ability. You don't have to get "the best" but you need to take it serious enough to avoid JUNK.
As for question #2, I'd suggest you try a few bows out (especially if you have friends who bowhunt already). If not, you can always talk with a dealer. Many will even allow you to shoot a few bows and let you be the judge. As for the types of bows, there are far too many to discuss at this point but you have two main catagories to consider: TRADITIONAL and Modern. Each have sub-catogories but you'll need to know if you want to hold a bow that man held long ago or use an item that may provide more benefits (and I do hate using the word benefits but that is exactly the case). With traditional bows such as recurve, long bow and a few others in between, you'll definitely need to practice more and get in shape more cuz the bow is part of you and relies ONLY on your strength, consintration and natural ability. You can equipt such bows with modern "xtras" but you'll still need to practice pulling it back and holding it steady with a mastery of the same, exact release each time. Otherwise, you need to forget about it. The better choice that renders more benefit with less amount of time or physical ability would be modern bows such as compounds. They can be simplified depending on "let-off" or doing without all the bells and whistles OR you can go all out and bolt just about everything imaginable to them with as high a "LET OFF" as 90%. Let-off is that amount that the bow will assist in holding at full draw and usually kicks in during the drawing process. I can shoot instinctively with ALL forms of archery or use the most advanced systems but I prefer a 60# Darton Excell at 65%-75% let-off for hunting or tournament shooting. I've taken many deer with this particular brand and videoed quite a bit of these hunts (including a nice, unusually beautiful 8pt with 6" brow tines). I've also taken many deer with a 55-60lbs Martin Lynx and a beautiful (but expensive) Martin Maverick at 90# with 80% let-off. I sold both because I prefer the simplicity, speed, smoothness and reliability of the DARTONS (made in Michigan I believe). Anyway, you've got a lot of research to do and little time to apply everything you need before mid-Sept or OCTOBER. As a general rule.....especially with your just now getting into this, I'd suggest a second hand bow on Ebay and practice at TWICE the distance that you're willing to actually make on a deer. You may get VERY good at 30 yds (for example) but a lot comes into play when a deer walks up....especially if that deer is a monster. HA!!! So, at 30yds of practice, I'd try for a 12-15 yard shot at a deer. In fact, most of my deer have been taken at 12 yards. As thick as it gets around here, I don't like those longer, "IFY" shots. Too much can happen and I'd rather play it safe and see or hear one go down (rather than spend all day or all night looking for an animal that was not shot within a perfect kill zone). If you plan to go the TYR route and use a two sticks and a string, I would like to say that I bought my son a Samich sage two Christmas's ago and it is a cheap, brand new bow that shoots surprisingly well....just don't get one with too much muscle because it'll take a great deal of muscle. HA! 45 pounds is PLENTY to kill a deer and if you've never shot before....you'll quickly feel that 45 pounds after practicing. HA!!!!

Anyway, thanks for posting....If I can help in any way, I'll certainly do so.

PS: below is a Samick Sage (South Korean Bow) Of course, Tyr has some OLDIES but GOODIES that cost 10 times what this brand new one costs.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/clubkidcarlos/rbow1.jpg[/QUOTE

I truly appreciate the advice because just like ya said ya walk into the sport store and they have a thousand different types of Bows and if ya aren't familiar with them they all look foreign to me, but I have a buddy down here that is into Bow hunting and has offered to let me try his bows like you he has high dollar and older ones and again like you he said ya need to shoot them to feel what is comfortable to me, he says all the time a $500 Bow may work well for one but the other guy may do better with the cheap one ( or a more expensive one ) so I guess I will head up to see him and see how they feel, again thanks for the advice and I will keep ya posted on my success or lack of

[red state]

Sounds great....just remember that a name is often times overrated. I shoot Browning rifles/shotguns but I'm not going to dare say that they are the BEST (I just happen to think so with good reason). Same goes for bows, I truly like PSE and DARTON....even though I had shot MARTIN most of my life. HA! Martins are good but I truly believe they are over rated and go by NAME much of the time. The expensive Martin Maverick has a speed string and often "blew up on me". I'm just glad it was under a NEW bow warranty. HA!!! My old Darton has been thrown on the other side of creeks, dropped from the tree stand and dryfired by my son. hA!!! It is VERY reliable (the AK47 of compound bows in my opinion).

Ebay is a very good way to get a good bow for a little. I've bought 5 on Ebay (including my son's electric blue tournament bow) and I've always been very pleased.

Glad I could help....you sound as though you have a great, dependable friend who will undoubtedly steer you in the RIGHT location.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Nice Deer !!!
We start down here I think the middle of September with primitive arms and Bow , I haven't hunted since leaving SC but I am thinking of putting up a stand in the yard this year, I have 4 acres with a creek that run through the back and the deer walk through there all the time, a guy down the street has taken many out of the his yard that is the same as mine, I was concerned because although we have (I think) it is like 31/2 to 5 acre lots here it is still kind of close, but this guy assures me they walk all the time there , so I walked down there and sure enough Buck and doe tracks everywhere , heck I had a little ones tracks right in front of my shop , and the law is no hunting within 100 yards of the closest dwelling , so I may need to give it a shot.

I have never hunted with a Bow but think that is how I will go , all I have talked to have assured me if I ever do I wont want to go back to a rifle and with houses as close as they are I think a Bow is the way to go .

I really Miss SC when hunting comes along, there season is from August 1 to January 1 and you can shoot a Buck everyday , as for does they have special Does days where you may take 2 on that day or if you own enough land or hunt with someone that does ya get Doe tags so there is always plenty of time to thin them out a bit Jeff , Redstate gave you great advice about archery and bow hunting. He is even more into it than I currently am. He knows his stuff too. If new into bow hunting just make sure you get a bow you can handle well. Do not go with a heavier weight than you can comfortably handle and shoot well. I'd say 45 to 50 pounds and if later you find you can go heavier do so. Heavier just means flatter shooting and deeper penetration but since it is deer you want to hunt a 45 pound bow does the trick too. Now if you are going with a compound you should be able to handle and shoot a 60 to 65 pounder easily. Myself, I shoot longbow or recurve --no compounds--traditional archery all the way with me. I will not even shoot a crossbow. I've been shooting since I was 6 years old so I usual shoot my Tom Cole custom made 78 pounder! I pull anchoring at my ear --Old ENGLISH -- which gives me 31 inches draw length. And that adds about 7 more pounds. So I have shot and still can adequately shoot an 85 pounder. Heavy enough to hunt bear with... You have a friend there you say that bow hunts so you'll do fine going with his advice . Have any questions feel free to ask here this thread or send me a pm. -Tyr

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Jeff, I've always told folks to not make the same mistakes that I've made over the many years of hunting (or, in general, bow hunting). One of these mistakes is to believe that you need some sort of a plantation or THOUSANDS of gov. land to hunt. This simply isn't true and if you have ONE acre in the right spot....you can do FAR better on that one acre than with thousands of mediocre acres. In fact,

As for laws in hunting FROM or around houses or other structures, we can get into legalities if you like. I don't agree with such things (unless you plan to hunt just 20 yards from your street light. HA! I know an ole redneck boy who brags about the deer around his house where they feed under the street light. He says he's killed many of them while they ate the acorns at night. I frown on such things and usually just listen to him. I knew that he'd eventually wear out his welcome.....and he did by killing the 15 to 20 or so deer that he once had coming to his house. Still, I don't agree with stupid laws and one of them is in what you have mentioned. If you have a house in the middle of nowhere and wish to take a deer (without going out in the weather) I'm all for it (if you take the deer honorably). I am also against laws that are unConstitutional (such as the NO LOADED GUN during deer season law). Many folks can't afford a pistol or simply don't like them and may have a rifle for self preservation. This idiotic law was made for "bad apples" and to make it easier for game officials to catch "bad apples". It is also another way to create "revenue" so I have no doubts about the unConstitutionality of this law. Another law that I can't stand is the "primitive weapon" law. In some States, it is highly illegal to take a crossbow during "primitive weapon" season......and even during the RIFLE SEASON. Some States have gotten better but most still "regulate" crossbows unfairly. I suspect this is so it would be easier for a game official to HEAR what one is doing and as we all know, a crossbow is a GREAT mid-range weapon with virtually NO sound. I prefer a bow but I also like a crossbow ever since I got one for my son (who was too young for a 45 or 50 cal muzzle-loader). I HATE muzzle loaders by the way....never could shoot one well enough to have confidence. This brings me to my next point about crossbow regulations. They highly regulate crossbows YET allow single shot, long distance RIFLES during primitive/so-called muzzle loader season and this is plain WRONG and highly STUPID. I know I have ranted on but, Jeff, you brought legality up so I wanted to deal with that. This thread is truly for anything that one would like to ask or share with others.

Jeff, you mentioned that you are a first time bow hunter so I'd suggest you ask yourself a few questions first:
One: How serious am I on this quest?
Two: What type bow would I enjoy more?
Three: What am I willing to invest?

My reply to question #1 would be in a bit of advice. If you do ANYTHING, do it to the best of your ability. This means getting a bow that you are comfortable with and practice, Practice, PRACTICE. Know you're limits in cost, time and ability. You don't have to get "the best" but you need to take it serious enough to avoid JUNK.
As for question #2, I'd suggest you try a few bows out (especially if you have friends who bowhunt already). If not, you can always talk with a dealer. Many will even allow you to shoot a few bows and let you be the judge. As for the types of bows, there are far too many to discuss at this point but you have two main catagories to consider: TRADITIONAL and Modern. Each have sub-catogories but you'll need to know if you want to hold a bow that man held long ago or use an item that may provide more benefits (and I do hate using the word benefits but that is exactly the case). With traditional bows such as recurve, long bow and a few others in between, you'll definitely need to practice more and get in shape more cuz the bow is part of you and relies ONLY on your strength, consintration and natural ability. You can equipt such bows with modern "xtras" but you'll still need to practice pulling it back and holding it steady with a mastery of the same, exact release each time. Otherwise, you need to forget about it. The better choice that renders more benefit with less amount of time or physical ability would be modern bows such as compounds. They can be simplified depending on "let-off" or doing without all the bells and whistles OR you can go all out and bolt just about everything imaginable to them with as high a "LET OFF" as 90%. Let-off is that amount that the bow will assist in holding at full draw and usually kicks in during the drawing process. I can shoot instinctively with ALL forms of archery or use the most advanced systems but I prefer a 60# Darton Excell at 65%-75% let-off for hunting or tournament shooting. I've taken many deer with this particular brand and videoed quite a bit of these hunts (including a nice, unusually beautiful 8pt with 6" brow tines). I've also taken many deer with a 55-60lbs Martin Lynx and a beautiful (but expensive) Martin Maverick at 90# with 80% let-off. I sold both because I prefer the simplicity, speed, smoothness and reliability of the DARTONS (made in Michigan I believe). Anyway, you've got a lot of research to do and little time to apply everything you need before mid-Sept or OCTOBER. As a general rule.....especially with your just now getting into this, I'd suggest a second hand bow on Ebay and practice at TWICE the distance that you're willing to actually make on a deer. You may get VERY good at 30 yds (for example) but a lot comes into play when a deer walks up....especially if that deer is a monster. HA!!! So, at 30yds of practice, I'd try for a 12-15 yard shot at a deer. In fact, most of my deer have been taken at 12 yards. As thick as it gets around here, I don't like those longer, "IFY" shots. Too much can happen and I'd rather play it safe and see or hear one go down (rather than spend all day or all night looking for an animal that was not shot within a perfect kill zone). If you plan to go the TYR route and use a two sticks and a string, I would like to say that I bought my son a Samich sage two Christmas's ago and it is a cheap, brand new bow that shoots surprisingly well....just don't get one with too much muscle because it'll take a great deal of muscle. HA! 45 pounds is PLENTY to kill a deer and if you've never shot before....you'll quickly feel that 45 pounds after practicing. HA!!!!

Anyway, thanks for posting....If I can help in any way, I'll certainly do so.

PS: below is a Samick Sage (South Korean Bow) Of course, Tyr has some OLDIES but GOODIES that cost 10 times what this brand new one costs.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/clubkidcarlos/rbow1.jpg
I have those oldies but goodies because I did not yield to the temptation to sell when offered huge sums of money over the years. All worth even more because they all are left hand bows! Even my Bandito Recurve is left handed. My older brother that shoots bows is left handed he gets one if I pass on, the rest go to my son who is right handed but I'll start soon on getting him to shoot left handed so he can use them when I am long gone. Any of the old Ben Pearson or Fred Bear bows are good IF one finds them in good shape and functioning. I have a Bobby Lofton custom longbow(Maple/Purpleheart on blackglass) I wouldn't take a 1000 bucks for. He died about 10/12 years ago! He made it for me about 5 years before he passed on. -Tyr

[red state]

That's all great advice and you actually reminded me of something I meant to mention.

Jeff, I am right handed and have always shot LEFT handed but after a firearm and other incidents, I can no longer pull the string adequately with my left hand so I now shoot right handed. I prefer to shoot left handed because my left eye is dominant (still is) but it is simply one of those things that you have to contend with as you age or take on damage. SO....you will need to put both your index fingers together and (without thinking about it) point at an object. Close on eye and then the other to determine which is closer to the "targeted object". This will tell you which eye is dominant and which bow (right or left) you'd do better with. If both eyes are pretty much on the target....THAT's GREAT but do this time and time again (as a quick draw if necessary) to find out which is the better eye. I also prefer to shoot a left-handed bow because you actually hold a left-handed bow in your RIGHT hand and pull the string with your left......I always associated this with shooting a pistol (just with the wrong eye). HA!!! As Tyr, said, I'm sure your friend will know exactly what to do in getting your started. HAPPY HUNTIN'!

Thanks, TYR, for reminding me about that cuz even though J is right handed, his left eye may actually be dominant (making your old bows PERFECT).

[red state]

by the by....has anyone saw those jellyfoam ZOMBIE targets they have out now for archery and bb guns? They actually oooze blood-like stuff when shot. HA! Not sure I'd want all that on my arrows but it would be cool if you were a kid with an old Daizy. It actually reminded me of a joke I pulled on one of dad's friends (who bow hunts for elk out west....until he got too old). I rigged up one of my 3D buck targets with at water balloon full of red food coloring. When he shot it....you should have seen his look when the thing started to bleed. HA!

I got my son really good at an early age by cutting him out a buck made of 3/4 plywood. It had a cut-out in the kill zone with foam from a 3-d deer. IF he hit it right....it stuck in. If he hit the leg or gut....it'd bounce or ruin an arrow. He has been shooting since he was 2 or 3 (mostly home made bows) and by the time he was 6 or 7, he was literally bringing squirrels out of the woods...I'd be in the next hollow in case he needed me but he'd always come to me on his own (smiling and quite proud of the shish~kebob on his arrow that was to be his supper. The boy has a steady hand and keen eye but he's at the age now (college years) to where archery is second fiddle. I'll probably have to wait another several years before getting him BACK from the books, the girls and the Xbox crowd. Oh well, at least he's not into the drugs and drinking that I was doing at his age (THANK GOD)!

Sure hope this thread lives on....I truly don't mind how it branches out (but I do want it to continue the path of the arrow).

[Robert A Whit]

Nice Deer !!!
We start down here I think the middle of September with primitive arms and Bow , I haven't hunted since leaving SC but I am thinking of putting up a stand in the yard this year, I have 4 acres with a creek that run through the back and the deer walk through there all the time, a guy down the street has taken many out of the his yard that is the same as mine, I was concerned because although we have (I think) it is like 31/2 to 5 acre lots here it is still kind of close, but this guy assures me they walk all the time there , so I walked down there and sure enough Buck and doe tracks everywhere , heck I had a little ones tracks right in front of my shop , and the law is no hunting within 100 yards of the closest dwelling , so I may need to give it a shot.

I have never hunted with a Bow but think that is how I will go , all I have talked to have assured me if I ever do I wont want to go back to a rifle and with houses as close as they are I think a Bow is the way to go .

I really Miss SC when hunting comes along, there season is from August 1 to January 1 and you can shoot a Buck everyday , as for does they have special Does days where you may take 2 on that day or if you own enough land or hunt with someone that does ya get Doe tags so there is always plenty of time to thin them out a bit

You may not know this but when I am in the East I notice far more deer than I see in Ca. I can positively get to Yorktown and drive or walk around and see deer. In Ca, there are a lot of deer but perhaps hunting them a lot smartened them up and they are harder to find. Any thoughts on this? You guys must hunt the hell out of them so i don't get it. I plan to check to see if there are stats on how many deer are left in CA. I appraised a home in the mountains once and noticed deer laying about in yards but those homes are spread out and very rural.

[red state]

Much of it is in having more land per deer. Another aspect is in the diverse regions of CA. You guys have one of the most beautiful States I've ever seen. You have mountains, rivers, valleys, desert, flats full of grapes and almost PERFECT weather in the Big Bay area!!! I saw no deer when I visited SF and Sacramento last year but while driving through the wineries, saw many HUGE jack rabbits. I didn't even know you had them (till I saw them) but it really depends on the area.....you simply haven't found them yet. There's places in my area that have MANY deer but you can go just two or three miles and rarely see one. It truly is LOCATION, Location, location. and where the perfect scenarios are is where the deer will be...or turkey...or coyote or anything really. The type of agriculture is different in CA so that is also a major factor. A lot of folks go for beautiful timbered areas so I'd suggest you look in the nasty areas where timber has been cut and replaced by hard to walk thickets.....that is where the deer are when there is no adequate agriculture. Hope this helps....and HAPPY HUNTING!

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

You may not know this but when I am in the East I notice far more deer than I see in Ca. I can positively get to Yorktown and drive or walk around and see deer. In Ca, there are a lot of deer but perhaps hunting them a lot smartened them up and they are harder to find. Any thoughts on this? You guys must hunt the hell out of them so i don't get it. I plan to check to see if there are stats on how many deer are left in CA. I appraised a home in the mountains once and noticed deer laying about in yards but those homes are spread out and very rural. DEER ARE SMART ANIMALS AND THEY LEARN REAL QUICK WHAT AND WHO TO AVOID! When an area has been hunted a lot they are skittish and quite easily spooked. They tend to move about with even more of the extreme caution that usual. They shy way from wide open spaces etc. On the other hand in areas never hunted they are often quite bold even during daylight hours. The cagey old bucks are even more alert and cautious. Often one has to let the doe's move on by to wait for the buck that lets them go forth to be the victim if danger awaits.-Tyr

[red state]

A client of mine in CA (who was once a good ole boy from AL and MO) says that there are plentiful game and they've actually had a problem with hogs in certain areas (I think in the mountainous areas North or North East of Sacramento. I'd try the base of mountains where ever green meet hardwoods and where plenty of water can be found. Whitetail, unlike other CA animals such as the big horn sheep, need lots and lots of water. I'm not sure but I'd suspect that those HUGE rabbits I saw need very little water cuz they certainly didn't seem to be around any water. Boy ole boy, I'd just LOVE to stick several of those long ears with my bow and arrow!!!! That'd be almost as much fun as bow fishing (which can also be discussed here if anyone wishes to do so). Have at it guys and gals....this is very enjoyable. WE all need the change!

[red state]

DEER ARE SMART ANIMALS AND THEY LEARN REAL QUICK WHAT AND WHO TO AVOID! When an area has been hunted a lot they are skittish and quite easily spooked. They tend to move about with even more of the extreme caution that usual. They shy way from wide open spaces etc. On the other hand in areas never hunted they are often quite bold even during daylight hours. The cagey old bucks are even more alert and cautious. Often one has to let the doe's move on by to wait for the buck that lets them go forth to be the victim if danger awaits.-Tyr
Yes...and that hold true as to why CA and other liberal States have more big cat and bear attacks. The animals that once feared (or at least respected man) no longer have the need or necessity to do NEITHER. I'm trying not to ruin this thread with politics but sometimes a subject simply goes hand in hand with another. The SOUTH and SOUTH East have many deer and they all fear man BUT I've noticed how bold the deer, turkey and bear are when I'm out in Gatlinburg/Cosby area. Then again, you can go just a few miles and really see a difference in the wildlife's outlook on MAN. You can immediately tell where is hunted or not.

Our cabin in the Smokey Mountains has turkey, deer and bear walk by with just a bit of caution (which unnerves me a bit). HA! It truly is dangerous in the summer cuz you could very likely run smack dab into an old sow with her cub....and that just won't do for either of us cuz I'm ALWAYS glued to a pistol in the mountains.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

A client of mine in CA (who was once a good ole boy from AL and MO) says that there are plentiful game and they've actually had a problem with hogs in certain areas (I think in the mountainous areas North or North East of Sacramento. I'd try the base of mountains where ever green meet hardwoods and where plenty of water can be found. Whitetail, unlike other CA animals such as the big horn sheep, need lots and lots of water. I'm not sure but I'd suspect that those HUGE rabbits I saw need very little water cuz they certainly didn't seem to be around any water. Boy ole boy, I'd just LOVE to stick several of those long ears with my bow and arrow!!!! That'd be almost as much fun as bow fishing (which can also be discussed here if anyone wishes to do so). Have at it guys and gals....this is very enjoyable. WE all need the change! Not me, I'd rather put a 33 inch arrow about 31 inches deep into one of those huge wild hogs. I bet some of them are good eating too! Hell, as a young man I rabbit hunted with a single shot 22 caliber rifle. Anybody ever rabbit hunted will tell you want a feat that is but as a kid I never knew it was. Those critters as super fast and do not run in a straight line ! I've killed a few as a kid with homemade bow and arrow but they were sitting not running.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Yes...and that hold true as to why CA and other liberal States have more big cat and bear attacks. The animals that once feared (or at least respected man) no longer have the need or necessity to do NEITHER. I'm trying not to ruin this thread with politics but sometimes a subject simply goes hand in hand with another. The SOUTH and SOUTH East have many deer and they all fear man BUT I've noticed how bold the deer, turkey and bear are when I'm out in Gatlinburg/Cosby area. Then again, you can go just a few miles and really see a difference in the wildlife's outlook on MAN. You can immediately tell where is hunted or not.

Our cabin in the Smokey Mountains has turkey, deer and bear walk by with just a bit of caution (which unnerves me a bit). HA! It truly is dangerous in the summer cuz you could very likely run smack dab into an old sow with her cub....and that just won't do for either of us cuz I'm ALWAYS glued to a pistol in the mountains. That pistol should be a 44 magnum. I wouldn't trust anything smaller even with it being black bear and not a grizzly! Of course black bear can be killed with 12 shotgun gauge using slugs. When I go hunting I prefer a place where nobody else is around. Not just for safety reasons but also for the solitude and feeling of nature the way it was a couple hundred years ago here. I get this super peaceful feeling in a place like that, very hard to explain.. It's like I am in touch with my Native American ancestors when surrounded by nothing but trees and wild animals. .. Damn, I miss that.... -Tyr

[Robert A Whit]

Much of it is in having more land per deer. Another aspect is in the diverse regions of CA. You guys have one of the most beautiful States I've ever seen. You have mountains, rivers, valleys, desert, flats full of grapes and almost PERFECT weather in the Big Bay area!!! I saw no deer when I visited SF and Sacramento last year but while driving through the wineries, saw many HUGE jack rabbits. I didn't even know you had them (till I saw them) but it really depends on the area.....you simply haven't found them yet. There's places in my area that have MANY deer but you can go just two or three miles and rarely see one. It truly is LOCATION, Location, location. and where the perfect scenarios are is where the deer will be...or turkey...or coyote or anything really. The type of agriculture is different in CA so that is also a major factor. A lot of folks go for beautiful timbered areas so I'd suggest you look in the nasty areas where timber has been cut and replaced by hard to walk thickets.....that is where the deer are when there is no adequate agriculture. Hope this helps....and HAPPY HUNTING!

Good report. Where I have found deer in CA varies. Milpitas, CA a few miles south of me has them in the hills. I hear they are in my cities hills too. I am seldom up in our hills. I saw them north of Garberville, CA in the redwoods too. I see deer around Yosemite. Bear too. I honestly don't plan to hunt deer since I can't store the meat. I don't eat a lot of steaks and such. I was about 30 miles from Auburn, CA where I saw the deer laying in people's yards.

[red state]

Good report. Where I have found deer in CA varies. Milpitas, CA a few miles south of me has them in the hills. I hear they are in my cities hills too. I am seldom up in our hills. I saw them north of Garberville, CA in the redwoods too. I see deer around Yosemite. Bear too. I honestly don't plan to hunt deer since I can't store the meat. I don't eat a lot of steaks and such. I was about 30 miles from Auburn, CA where I saw the deer laying in people's yards.

Yep, the ones laying in folk's yard are the tinder ones! HA! Easy life would definitely make them tastier. The spooked kind that flinch every second or two make for TOUGH eating. As for you not hunting because you don't have anywhere to store it or because you don't eat much steak....I'll assure you that you'll not get a whole heck-of-a-lot of meat from one deer. I've a many of times thrown the shoulders on the BBQ and cut the rest up in jerky. I may save a few rumps for the following night or two but you'd be surprised at how quickly you can consume an entire deer....especially with much of it going to jerky. You can even soak it in your favorite sauce, make sure it is salted and drained before drying it (not cooking it) on the slowest setting in your oven. If you don't have a self-cleaning oven, put a pan under for the drippings. You'll have the BEST jerky you've ever had and it will not need refrigerating if you do it right.

[Robert A Whit]

A client of mine in CA (who was once a good ole boy from AL and MO) says that there are plentiful game and they've actually had a problem with hogs in certain areas (I think in the mountainous areas North or North East of Sacramento. I'd try the base of mountains where ever green meet hardwoods and where plenty of water can be found. Whitetail, unlike other CA animals such as the big horn sheep, need lots and lots of water. I'm not sure but I'd suspect that those HUGE rabbits I saw need very little water cuz they certainly didn't seem to be around any water. Boy ole boy, I'd just LOVE to stick several of those long ears with my bow and arrow!!!! That'd be almost as much fun as bow fishing (which can also be discussed here if anyone wishes to do so). Have at it guys and gals....this is very enjoyable. WE all need the change!

Ca is an enormous state and has plenty of game. I understand that wild hogs are in the hills around Monterey and Carmel and plenty more in the Napa Valley. Can't say I heard of them in the Sierras but the coastal mountain ranges seem to be a fine home to hogs. As a kid, I never saw any wild turkeys but now they are all over the place. I can find wild turkeys in maybe 5 to 7 miles.

I did not intend it to sound like we don't have plenty of deer but I noticed a lot of them near civilization in the East. I can't recall them in PA but surely they are there. Matter of fact, other than in VA I did not notice them in the East either and I was all up and down the East. I saw so little of North Carolina I can't speak much of it.

[Jeff]

Not me, I'd rather put a 33 inch arrow about 31 inches deep into one of those huge wild hogs. I bet some of them are good eating too! Hell, as a young man I rabbit hunted with a single shot 22 caliber rifle. Anybody ever rabbit hunted will tell you want a feat that is but as a kid I never knew it was. Those critters as super fast and do not run in a straight line ! I've killed a few as a kid with homemade bow and arrow but they were sitting not running.

We use to Hog hunt in Rag town SC, just south of Dillon and west of Florance , my buddy was a hunting and fishing guide up there and also wrote cook books on cooking wild game, well he made ribs from a hog one day and they where with out a doubt the best ribs I have ever had , they came right off the bone but didnt fall off and where so tender , they where fantastic , not sure where he learned to cook but he sure did a fine job on those ribs

[red state]

That pistol should be a 44 magnum. I wouldn't trust anything smaller even with it being black bear and not a grizzly! Of course black bear can be killed with 12 shotgun gauge using slugs. When I go hunting I prefer a place where nobody else is around. Not just for safety reasons but also for the solitude and feeling of nature the way it was a couple hundred years ago here. I get this super peaceful feeling in a place like that, very hard to explain.. It's like I am in touch with my Native American ancestors when surrounded by nothing but trees and wild animals. .. Damn, I miss that.... -Tyr

I figure a 38 or 40 would do just fine for a black bear. I agree that I would want a bazooka for grizz.

Hey Tyr, old buddy, if you want to connect with the Cherokee inside (and especially the Choctaw) put down the guns and bow and wittle you out a good throwing stick. We used to do that all the time in front of our beagles. Had some world class dogs at one time....have NONE now but when we didn't use the dogs, we'd either slip up on them and knock em in the head or we'd flush them out and twirl the stick. We had about a 10% chance like that but the other methods proved VERY effective.

I agree about being out in the wild....hard to find those places any more. When I was my son's age now (19) and years before, I could LEGALLY walk just about anywhere (for miles) without worrying about "posted" property but the more folks turned mean....the less stomping ground I had. It was in 1992 or 93 that I decided to buy land. Back then, I had 3-4 THOUSAND acres to hunt but I knew that land would soon be gone to clubs and such so I bought 120 acres smack dab in the middle of all the BEST hunting ground I had hunted for years. Sure enough, I watched this and that property go through death of the owners or hunting clubs. Sad really but that is the way of the times. Still, even hundreds of years ago....you'd better make darn sure you weren't a Cherokee from a certain tribe on the land of another tribe or "nation" altogether. HA! I'd be worse than a ticket from the game warden FOR CERTAIN. hA!!!!

[red state]

I'm glad we don't have hogs....they are too hazardous to other game species and to your property. We had some guys who would catch them and raise them only to turn them loose on other properties but we land owners got together and did something that I had heard, time and time again, was impossible if you ever got them started.....we cleaned them out. I wasn't impressed with the taste our wild hogs...I much preferred the domesticated BBQ. Now, I can make some outstanding BBQ using a sorry ole deer shoulder. I can even make a deer shoulder taste EXACTLY like Sunday Roast. It is a lot of trouble to some degree but it beats throwing that part of the deer away.

Dag-nab-it! Jeff, you've done made me hungry!!!! Fixin' to raid the kitchen now! See you guys later.

[Robert A Whit]

Yep, the ones laying in folk's yard are the tinder ones! HA! Easy life would definitely make them tastier. The spooked kind that flinch every second or two make for TOUGH eating. As for you not hunting because you don't have anywhere to store it or because you don't eat much steak....I'll assure you that you'll not get a whole heck-of-a-lot of meat from one deer. I've a many of times thrown the shoulders on the BBQ and cut the rest up in jerky. I may save a few rumps for the following night or two but you'd be surprised at how quickly you can consume an entire deer....especially with much of it going to jerky. You can even soak it in your favorite sauce, make sure it is salted and drained before drying it (not cooking it) on the slowest setting in your oven. If you don't have a self-cleaning oven, put a pan under for the drippings. You'll have the BEST jerky you've ever had and it will not need refrigerating if you do it right.

I am not sure those deer in the Sierras were that small. I did not get out of the car to disturb them. around my town, our deer are not very big and the local government does not look kindly on hunting them that I know of. I can store meat in the freezer but I don't have a deep freeze. I like your ideas.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

We use to Hog hunt in Rag town SC, just south of Dillon and west of Florance , my buddy was a hunting and fishing guide up there and also wrote cook books on cooking wild game, well he made ribs from a hog one day and they where with out a doubt the best ribs I have ever had , they came right off the bone but didnt fall off and where so tender , they where fantastic , not sure where he learned to cook but he sure did a fine job on those ribs Damn , dude you just made me hungry! Eating this late at night would murder me! :laugh: I've had Arkansas razorback ribs before and they were good too. Friend of my oldest brother was a great cook when it came to wild game and wild hog was one of his specialties. Damn shame he moved out west back in the early 90's. DAT MAN SHO' KUD COOK..;)-- He made a deer chili that was to die for! Hell, far better than mine....Tyr

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I'm glad we don't have hogs....they are too hazardous to other game species and to your property. We had some guys who would catch them and raise them only to turn them loose on other properties but we land owners got together and did something that I had heard, time and time again, was impossible if you ever got them started.....we cleaned them out. I wasn't impressed with the taste our wild hogs...I much preferred the domesticated BBQ. Now, I can make some outstanding BBQ using a sorry ole deer shoulder. I can even make a deer shoulder taste EXACTLY like Sunday Roast. It is a lot of trouble to some degree but it beats throwing that part of the deer away.

Dag-nab-it! Jeff, you've done made me hungry!!!! Fixin' to raid the kitchen now! See you guys later.
Hey Bud, drink a cold brew and leave that heavy food alone this late at night. You'll thank me in da mornin'. ;)--Tyr

[red state]

Funny you should mention that...I could actually use a beer about now (although I don't drink).

All that talk sounded good last night but I've had too much BBQ and "bad stuff" apparently....my wife had me weigh and although I thought I had lost after some heavier work schedules and many honey do tasks.....I actually gained two pounds (from 185 -187). WOW! I was so depressed that I ate very lightly (although I had eaten NO supper). I know it is the worst thing you can do is to eat late but that is just how the cookie crumbles sometimes. At least I rarely eat desserts (VERY rarely) but I eat enough of the other stuff to make up for it I'm sure.

I am tall and show my weight very well but I should actually *(by my own account) weight in at around 210 or 220. Even then, folks were shocked that I wasn't 185 or so. Those days are over cuz even it they still mistake my weight, they could still (EASILY) guess me in at 240-250. At my college days of 210 - 220, I look very trim and fit....even tho my ball playing days had me weigh in at a fast, agile 190. That is what I weighed for a long, long time till age (and a lot of college beer) caught up with me. HA!!!

I want to be around to bow hunt for a few more years so my wife has now ordered some sort of meal thingy she wants me to do with her. YIKES!!! Goodbye REAL food! I'm actually going to try and follow her lead, however, and hope to reap the benefits in 6 months or so. I truly can't allow myself to get any heavier. We take care of our bows and guns and it isn't right to not take better care of our most important aspects that allow us to enjoy life in the outdoors.

[red state]

I was 38 or so in this photo, quite able to do just about anything and everything and weighed about 250 (which may be a good size for me now that I'm an older adult). I don't think it good to lose too much......I've seen too many folks lose too much, too quickly and they end up looking HORRIBLE.

I am simply going to have to reduce my intake cuz I'm not NEARLY as active as I was (even just a few years ago) and cutting wood to clear my roads and stuff or running and gunning for a king tom turkey isn't taking the pounds off as it once did. Yep, my goal is 240 but I'll settle for 250.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5343&d=1375289887&thumb=1

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Funny you should mention that...I could actually use a beer about now (although I don't drink).

All that talk sounded good last night but I've had too much BBQ and "bad stuff" apparently....my wife had me weigh and although I thought I had lost after some heavier work schedules and many honey do tasks.....I actually gained two pounds (from 185 -187). WOW! I was so depressed that I ate very lightly (although I had eaten NO supper). I know it is the worst thing you can do is to eat late but that is just how the cookie crumbles sometimes. At least I rarely eat desserts (VERY rarely) but I eat enough of the other stuff to make up for it I'm sure.

I am tall and show my weight very well but I should actually *(by my own account) weight in at around 210 or 220. Even then, folks were shocked that I wasn't 185 or so. Those days are over cuz even it they still mistake my weight, they could still (EASILY) guess me in at 240-250. At my college days of 210 - 220, I look very trim and fit....even tho my ball playing days had me weigh in at a fast, agile 190. That is what I weighed for a long, long time till age (and a lot of college beer) caught up with me. HA!!!

I want to be around to bow hunt for a few more years so my wife has now ordered some sort of meal thingy she wants me to do with her. YIKES!!! Goodbye REAL food! I'm actually going to try and follow her lead, however, and hope to reap the benefits in 6 months or so. I truly can't allow myself to get any heavier. We take care of our bows and guns and it isn't right to not take better care of our most important aspects that allow us to enjoy life in the outdoors.
OH no!!!!!! Not the dreaded go on a diet with the wife thing!! I've done that a few times and it ended badly each time. Never go on a diet unless its in your heart to do so. I've never heard of a wife going on a diet because the husband did.. Of course could be a further bonding thing with your wife and a good thing. Only you know the specifics so don't take my advice in the wrong way my friend. By the way I did the error of eating late last night after I signed off here. Ate a left over pork chop and sure as hell my blood pressure was high this morning. I should have taken my own advice and had that beer! :laugh: Then I could bitch about losing sleep waking up twice to go urinate when I should have been sleeping. My wife did mention a few weeks back my weight gain .. Although she said it wasn't too bad. She had just gotten use to my slim belly after the first year of extreme diet right after my heart attack. -Tyr

[red state]

yep....we HUMANS seldom take our own advice but are liberal in giving it to others. My wife had actually been contemplating that we both eat better given the history of diabetes, heart failure, cancer and so many other things on BOTH sides of our family. The final draw was in my "THINKING/FEELING as thought I had lost weight (when in fact, I had gained). Now I know that two pounds isn't much but a couple of years ago I told (promised myself) that I would diet and exercise (IF) and (WHEN) I go over 275. Well, that came and went and my body frame/style hid my condition well, but I then promised myself that I 280 was it and (IF) I got any heavier, I'd have to do something. Well, 285 came and I did pretty good keeping it at that so I simply let it go. NOW, I've gotten two pounds more over many months so it is time to nip it in the bud....before I step up and the scale reads 0. HA!!! They don't make them past 299 so I refuse to be "that guy". It has gone on long enough. I prefer to hunt from blinds in my wisdom but if I must force myself to start climbing trees again as I once did for years....so be it. I need to start doing much more and now that I see a break in the publication process of two very good clients, I will actually have more time on my hands (AWAY from the computer). Been having trouble with my tractor and am in the process of looking for a newer one....that'll keep me "ACTIVE" cutting and clearing and making food plots. I also need to start cutting firewood and hanging deer stands. I'm sure that this alone will cut 10 pounds off QUICK. IF I start shooting again (as I should) I will probably be able to slice another 5 pounds going back and forth to the target. I don't know how you shoot BUT I shoot only one arrow. It isn't that I'm cheap or don't have enough arrows (because I do have a great number of arrows....although I am VERY cheap). The fact of the matter is; I shoot one arrow and think about my release and form as I walk to retrieve my arrow. You usually get only one shot at a deer so I practice accordingly. I even walks quickly on a steep grade before shooting to simulate the heart rate one has when a deer approaches. It is all good practice for a hunt and as you well know....you get only one shot at tournaments as well. In fact, I'm going to re-post this so that it may help someone like Jeff later on. I believe it to be a good habit to get into.

[red state]

When practicing, I shoot one arrow and think about my release and form as I walk to retrieve my arrow. You usually get only one shot at a deer so I practice accordingly. I even walk quickly on a steep grade before shooting to simulate the heart rate one has when a deer approaches.

It is all good practice for a hunt and as TYR probably knows....you do get only ONE shot at tournaments.

I've actually called one of my home-made hunting tapes "Flags, Tags and Double Jeopardy" because I have failed attempts, successes and second chances at the same deer within the same minute (after missing). On one hunt I recorded my skimming across the back of the deer but knew that the deer would try and get back with the others so I quickly shook my mistake off and readied myself with arrow #2. Sure enough, I was presented a second chance and had a clear mind this time around. After the shot, I removed my head set and recorded the deer going down within 60 yrds. I have actually filmed some great hunts (including a spine shot). I may look into pulling these from the old, dusty tapes and converting them but if anyone actually has some DIGITAL footage, I'm sure we'd love to see it (and it doesn't have to be a kill footage either). All footage would be appreciated.

When I filmed my nice 8pt with bow, I showed the 6 holes that was in that buck.....almost missed him as he had picked me out in that large, old Blackjack tree. I truly lucked up hitting him and killing him. He only went 100 yards or more but it is a wonder I found him at all. the arrow went in the LOW, flabby part of his front leg, came out, angled up and into the LOW brisket/rib area, out the described area and rose as it exited the opposing flabby part of his other front leg. I found 90% of the shaft that housed the WASP broadhead but I never found the fletching. You could hear the arrow break as he bucked from the impact and I can't imagine why the arrow rose as it did because I actually hunted too high back then. Had the arrow not rose so miraculously, the buck would have lived with minimum harm (very minimum). It simply was his bad luck and my good blessing.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

When practicing, I shoot one arrow and think about my release and form as I walk to retrieve my arrow. You usually get only one shot at a deer so I practice accordingly. I even walk quickly on a steep grade before shooting to simulate the heart rate one has when a deer approaches.

It is all good practice for a hunt and as TYR probably knows....you do get only ONE shot at tournaments.

I've actually called one of my home-made hunting tapes "Flags, Tags and Double Jeopardy" because I have failed attempts, successes and second chances at the same deer within the same minute (after missing). On one hunt I recorded my skimming across the back of the deer but knew that the deer would try and get back with the others so I quickly shook my mistake off and readied myself with arrow #2. Sure enough, I was presented a second chance and had a clear mind this time around. After the shot, I removed my head set and recorded the deer going down within 60 yrds. I have actually filmed some great hunts (including a spine shot). I may look into pulling these from the old, dusty tapes and converting them but if anyone actually has some DIGITAL footage, I'm sure we'd love to see it (and it doesn't have to be a kill footage either). All footage would be appreciated.

When I filmed my nice 8pt with bow, I showed the 6 holes that was in that buck.....almost missed him as he had picked me out in that large, old Blackjack tree. I truly lucked up hitting him and killing him. He only went 100 yards or more but it is a wonder I found him at all. the arrow went in the LOW, flabby part of his front leg, came out, angled up and into the LOW brisket/rib area, out the described area and rose as it exited the opposing flabby part of his other front leg. I found 90% of the shaft that housed the WASP broadhead but I never found the fletching. You could hear the arrow break as he bucked from the impact and I can't imagine why the arrow rose as it did because I actually hunted too high back then. Had the arrow not rose so miraculously, the buck would have lived with minimum harm (very minimum). It simply was his bad luck and my good blessing. I used to several months in advance practice using two arrows, so as to do corrections after the first shot --to get shot in so to speak.. . Then about two or three weeks before opening day start shooting one arrow only! Redstate is correct one arrow shooting forces you to concentrate the way you should! If wanting to get close to how its going to be if not hunting in a tree stand go stump shooting but be sure to use judo-points! Even with that you are likely to break a few arrows but its loads of fun when two or three guys do it as a competition shoot. Also if possible practice using a 3D deer target. I'VE BEEN SHOOTING BOWS FOR WELL OVER 50 YEARS SO LOTS OF STUFF I JUST DO MY OWN WAY AND LET NATURAL TALENT FLOW OUT. Sure sometimes that's just being a bit lazy but now its like target shooting with guns, I do it for fun but the improvement aspect just doesn't exist as I'm not going to get any better. I've maxed out on that a couple decades ago. I shot my heavy bow a few weeks ago and did very well. My nephew was amazed but to me it was just very well. I'll never shoot again like I DID WHEN IN MY 20'S ,30'S and 40's. Eyesight has diminished and concentration just isn't at that high of a level any more. Still very good but no longer truly amazing. Archery requires so much more than gunning! Hell, with guns I can still shoot a flea off a fat bullfrog's ass on a cloudy day at 60 paces and never even make the frog flinch! :laugh:--Tyr

[red state]

Yeah...I once had many 3d targets and homemade bales full of dirt that we pretended were black hogs. They made for a decent archery range as you walked the trails I had cleared. Even had all of them and 3d & 2d targets that guests brought when we had a shoot-out so our total was well over 40 targets some days. I had 5 or 6 real 3d deer and at least that many home-made bales. Now I just shoot into my pond levee at a suspended white cotton ball on a string. I can shoot that well into the dark and I don't ruing arrows that way. At one time, we had a fantastic archer club but those days are over and such events are few and far between. Good days...like TYR, I'm about blind now and the attention span is limited when you can't help but think about the blurriness, the pain in your chest and left arm, the dizziness and all the other distractions. OLD AGE SUCKS!!!

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Yeah...I once had many 3d targets and homemade bales full of dirt that we pretended were black hogs. They made for a decent archery range as you walked the trails I had cleared. Even had all of them and 3d & 2d targets that guests brought when we had a shoot-out so our total was well over 40 targets some days. I had 5 or 6 real 3d deer and at least that many home-made bales. Now I just shoot into my pond levee at a suspended white cotton ball on a string. I can shoot that well into the dark and I don't ruing arrows that way. At one time, we had a fantastic archer club but those days are over and such events are few and far between. Good days...like TYR, I'm about blind now and the attention span is limited when you can't help but think about the blurriness, the pain in your chest and left arm, the dizziness and all the other distractions. OLD AGE SUCKS!!!
Yep it sucks but sure as hell beats the alternative.. :laugh: I'd bet we could go out into the deep woods as a hunting team and come back with more game than any three or four of these modern day young bucks. -:beer:--Tyr

[red state]

I don't know....If you're talking about the average "young buck" then I'd agree with you but if you're talking about my son....I'd not take that bet. He lacks the grit and Uuummpppphhhh that I'd like him to have but when it comes to gathering up game (be it fish, rabbit, deer or varmit) I'd not go against him on his worse day in dealing with "wildlife". I just wish he was more like me in going all out and getting things done but I'm extremely relieved that he isn't like I was at his age with the "WILD LIFE" and wild living. I hope he NEVER knows that kind of life. Still, he could "man up" more. HA!!!

Yeah...TYR, if we didn't just collapse under the heat or if our OLD tickers didn't give out on us....I'm SURE we'd do very well in surviving. In fact, our older age may be the trick to settling down and taking it easy and SMART. I see a lot of wasted effort in my younger days as a hunter. SMARTS is better than physical ability any day.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I don't know....If you're talking about the average "young buck" then I'd agree with you but if you're talking about my son....I'd not take that bet. He lacks the grit and Uuummpppphhhh that I'd like him to have but when it comes to gathering up game (be it fish, rabbit, deer or varmit) I'd not go against him on his worse day in dealing with "wildlife". I just wish he was more like me in going all out and getting things done but I'm extremely relieved that he isn't like I was at his age with the "WILD LIFE" and wild living. I hope he NEVER knows that kind of life. Still, he could "man up" more. HA!!!

Yeah...TYR, if we didn't just collapse under the heat or if our OLD tickers didn't give out on us....I'm SURE we'd do very well in surviving. In fact, our older age may be the trick to settling down and taking it easy and SMART. I see a lot of wasted effort in my younger days as a hunter. SMARTS is better than physical ability any day. Sure your son is an exception but that's because you raised the boy right. Today's kids play car stealing games on the internet! And who knows what other kind of damn foolishness!?? When I was ten years old hunting game for the table was added as a chore. The only chore I enjoyed doing it was! :laugh:-Tyr

[red state]

Well, he's not perfect but I know the changes that a young man goes through....he's now talking about taking a break from college cuz he's not sure he wants to be a Pharm D. He's now considering the field of education (really wants to be a baseball coach) but I see this as a heartache. I'll support him but it is trying times. He seems lost right now and with his buddy getting back from the military, he's been laughing and playing war XBOX games over the internet. I'm not pressing it cuz I'd rather he do that than do some of the BULL$#!T I use to do. They play some of the buds stationed over seas during the weekend late at night when those guys are getting up. This leaves him getting up very late (as in 10:30 or 11). He actually went fishing the other day and that is something he did religiously until some of his friends "joined up". I would have allowed him but I NEVER encouraged it. He wanted so badly to be an Army Ranger (sniper) and would have made a darn good one but NOT under the SOW we currently have in OUR White House. Ok.....(NO POLITICS HERE). My apologies. I did raise him right and have been told that by MANY and I should be proud of this and let him iron out all the wrinkles in his life. It is hard on him right now anyway (after losing his MAW MAW). They were very close and during the Summer, when she wasn't teaching, practically raised him while I was at work. Perhaps he is now contemplating a teaching/coaching career on her account. Silly me....I never thought about that until now.

Parents....when your kids get to a certain age.....BUTT out and rely on the raising you've instilled in their hearts. I'd hate to think that I pushed my son into something that he did not enjoy or prevented him from fulfilling any dreams (HIS DREAMS-NOT MINE).

Well, this will be my last post for a while.....my wife is dead set on an SRX Cadillac so we're going to finish our test drive today and POSSIBLY sign some papers. HA!!! The car I bought her last year will go to my daughter (who, I'm proud to say, has ALL A's and will likely get a FULL scholarship to anywhere she wants). She was within a group to be sent to the White House two years ago or so but I forbid it. She was simply too young and I did not trust her in such a city so far from the protection of "daddy". She's my little hunter....until the boys started calling, texting and harassing. In a way....I'm all alone now in the woods cuz my two hunting partners are growing up on me and my youngest cares NOTHING for guns, bows or hunting....she's "momma's girl". I've bought her a PINK Micro Midas with PINK arrows and everything but she'll have none of it. I even shot a buck with my bow before her amazed and excited eyes thinking that would do it but she simply isn't into all that. I still remember her being so quiet up in that iron ladder stand as the buck walked directly under and by us. He looked to check out the surroundings and came right back (just like I had whispered to her that he would). I then backed her up out of the way a bit, drew my bow and PLUGGED him! He ran by us, directly down the road from which he had openly walked when he first appeared and before cutting in the woods, flipped over. Her eyes were huge and her smile wide as she started breathing again and exclaimed "OH MY GOSH"!!! I thought I had her then but she still just an "observer". HA!!! I'll have to wait till my other two grow into dear old dad again before I have my hunting partners back.....probably after they've gotten bored with their new found adult lives. HA!! There's a FIRST and LAST to everything but fortunately for those who enjoy the SPIRIT OF THE WILD.....there is re-birth.

OK....we're off to the dealership. Rather be headed to my favorite Archery dealer. HA!!!

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Well, he's not perfect but I know the changes that a young man goes through....he's now talking about taking a break from college cuz he's not sure he wants to be a Pharm D. He's now considering the field of education (really wants to be a baseball coach) but I see this as a heartache. I'll support him but it is trying times. He seems lost right now and with his buddy getting back from the military, he's been laughing and playing war XBOX games over the internet. I'm not pressing it cuz I'd rather he do that than do some of the BULL$#!T I use to do. They play some of the buds stationed over seas during the weekend late at night when those guys are getting up. This leaves him getting up very late (as in 10:30 or 11). He actually went fishing the other day and that is something he did religiously until some of his friends "joined up". I would have allowed him but I NEVER encouraged it. He wanted so badly to be an Army Ranger (sniper) and would have made a darn good one but NOT under the SOW we currently have in OUR White House. Ok.....(NO POLITICS HERE). My apologies. I did raise him right and have been told that by MANY and I should be proud of this and let him iron out all the wrinkles in his life. It is hard on him right now anyway (after losing his MAW MAW). They were very close and during the Summer, when she wasn't teaching, practically raised him while I was at work. Perhaps he is now contemplating a teaching/coaching career on her account. Silly me....I never thought about that until now.

Parents....when your kids get to a certain age.....BUTT out and rely on the raising you've instilled in their hearts. I'd hate to think that I pushed my son into something that he did not enjoy or prevented him from fulfilling any dreams (HIS DREAMS-NOT MINE).

Well, this will be my last post for a while.....my wife is dead set on an SRX Cadillac so we're going to finish our test drive today and POSSIBLY sign some papers. HA!!! The car I bought her last year will go to my daughter (who, I'm proud to say, has ALL A's and will likely get a FULL scholarship to anywhere she wants). She was within a group to be sent to the White House two years ago or so but I forbid it. She was simply too young and I did not trust her in such a city so far from the protection of "daddy". She's my little hunter....until the boys started calling, texting and harassing. In a way....I'm all alone now in the woods cuz my two hunting partners are growing up on me and my youngest cares NOTHING for guns, bows or hunting....she's "momma's girl". I've bought her a PINK Micro Midas with PINK arrows and everything but she'll have none of it. I even shot a buck with my bow before her amazed and excited eyes thinking that would do it but she simply isn't into all that. I still remember her being so quiet up in that iron ladder stand as the buck walked directly under and by us. He looked to check out the surroundings and came right back (just like I had whispered to her that he would). I then backed her up out of the way a bit, drew my bow and PLUGGED him! He ran by us, directly down the road from which he had openly walked when he first appeared and before cutting in the woods, flipped over. Her eyes were huge and her smile wide as she started breathing again and exclaimed "OH MY GOSH"!!! I thought I had her then but she still just an "observer". HA!!! I'll have to wait till my other two grow into dear old dad again before I have my hunting partners back.....probably after they've gotten bored with their new found adult lives. HA!! There's a FIRST and LAST to everything but fortunately for those who enjoy the SPIRIT OF THE WILD.....there is re-birth.

OK....we're off to the dealership. Rather be headed to my favorite Archery dealer. HA!!! Going to start Justin shooting next year, he'll be 7 years old then. I know kinda late starting but he has been so unhealthy and by next year his health shouldn't be an issue.. Will wait until he is 8 or 9 to start his training on shooting guns. My wife forced a compromise out of me on that. She at first went for 14 but I told her to hell with that I'll start him today rather than do that------wait that damn late! She next went for 12 and again I went on a rant and lectured her for about 30 minutes on how important it was and even tossed in that I may not be around that much longer due to my age and health. That kind of got to her a bit (hey, had to use anything-its that important) and she relented by saying 10 was her final concession. An hour later I had her down to 8 or 9.. ;) . I plan on getting him a bb -gun for Christmas this year--he'll be 7 on Dec.23rd. I know it's all kinda late but
his childhood has not been the norm. and now he has been into video games far too much. Got to bring him away from that and real shooting will do that. My wife mentioned gun safety to me! Im almost 60 and know more about guns and safety than just about any ten people combined... First thing taught is safety, even before the actual shooting and safety is to be stressed all the way thru the teaching. Other than women(later in life)(:laugh:), guns will be the most dangerous things he'll ever have in is hands! At least I will not be teaching him knife and hatchet like I was taught as a child! Times, they are achangin'.. ;) --Tyr

[red state]

Tyr, I'm fortunate in that regard. My wife has NEVER gotten in between me and the way I see fit to raise our children in the ways of the WILD. She may have ridiculed my harshness when it comes to learning and work but she has never saw me as some monster or irresponsible adult for wanting to spend time teaching my kids how to hunt, fish, fight or (even drive). Yes...I am one of those who sat them in my lap and let them drive. HA! God forbid I break the "LAW". No...I use common sense and taught them everything I could to get them AHEAD of everyone else. Folks can judge me here our out in the real world all they want but I have kids (TRUTHFULLY) that any parent would love to have. I forget that sometimes and when I am reminded of lil' Justin's condition, I have to thank God Almighty for giving my children the health they have always had. I can't imagine how you've been able to do it, TYR. They say God gives us ONLY that which we are able to endure so you must truly be a heck-of-a-guy!!! My hat is off to your, sir.

:clap:

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Tyr, I'm fortunate in that regard. My wife has NEVER gotten in between me and the way I see fit to raise our children in the ways of the WILD. She may have ridiculed my harshness when it comes to learning and work but she has never saw me as some monster or irresponsible adult for wanting to spend time teaching my kids how to hunt, fish, fight or (even drive). Yes...I am one of those who sat them in my lap and let them drive. HA! God forbid I break the "LAW". No...I use common sense and taught them everything I could to get them AHEAD of everyone else. Folks can judge me here our out in the real world all they want but I have kids (TRUTHFULLY) that any parent would love to have. I forget that sometimes and when I am reminded of lil' Justin's condition, I have to thank God Almighty for giving my children the health they have always had. I can't imagine how you've been able to do it, TYR. They say God gives us ONLY that which we are able to endure so you must truly be a heck-of-a-guy!!! My hat is off to your, sir.

:clap: I tell ya we love our kids and do whatever it takes to help them succeed. My sacrifices for me kids come just like breathing to me. I almost never even think of them as sacrifices . If you are a parent and naturally love your child far more than you do yourself you are on the correct path. Just stay there and stay true to that course. Life is not easy but we make do. Giving up is not an option. And putting myself ahead of my child is not one either!! My adult daughter is a truly beautiful person inside and out. She credits that to me! Has told me that often. Even wrote a long paragraph about it on a birthday card. I have that card saved and have asked that it go with me to the grave.... --Tyr

[Noir]

Yay, lets hear it for the bloodlust of men who can kill a defenceless animal ^,^

[red state]

Find another thread moron....this is for archery, guns, bow hunting (hunting in general)....I've asked for there to be no politics and even though I've slipped from time to time, I posted logically and without attacking the beliefs of others (especially others who I know to have strong feelings regarding their heritage). You don't hunt? FINE....start a non-hunting thread. I'll post there and deal with the issues of BLOOD LUST and girly-men who would be speaking German right now if not for the AMERICANS who grew up on very healthy game that they harvested by means of fair chase....some of the game that even dared to nibble on the corn and other products of their labor which was to feed their children. You see, liberals are so ignorant as to the facts YET the always pipe up to further show their ignorance.....this thread is not for the ignorant so go away (unless you'd like to actually LEARN for a change).

[Noir]

Touchy much? =P

Don't worry I'll leave you and the other 'non-girly men' to chat in peace (:

[red state]

Not touchy at all...just sick and tired of topics being attacked or derailed by leftists who understand or tolerate NOTHING. Now, had you been more inclined to ask questions and treat others with respect, I may have responded differently. I detected no humor in your post but did detect a misinformed judgement on those of us who have a different culture and heritage than yourself. A better culture and heritage than anything I have ever seen over seas. (IF) you were not simply poking at us and wanted to chime in with a "funny" that could be overlooked but (IF) you were simply attacking something you don't understand....at least pretend to be more intelligent or take the time to read some of the info above. You could learn much from this thread and Marcus's, Jeff's or TYR's thread on guns. I forget who started the other Outdoor thread but both mine and this one is filled with good stuff. Look, as you can tell, this is a thread much the same as you'd see some good ole boys outside their favorite diner...it is unlikely that you'd simply walk up and mouth off like you did (kidding or not). Just as I would not mouth off about something you may be discussing with kindred spirits or friends. It is simply rude but if you believe you can muster enough manners to "contribute" to the thread in a positive manner, so be it...you are welcome but if you're going to simply spout off ignorance...spread your ignorance elsewhere, PLEASE.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Touchy much? =P

Don't worry I'll leave you and the other 'non-girly men' to chat in peace (: Look , if you have something to say about we barbaric cavemen hunters by all means spit it out. It'll not bother me because I am sure I've heard it all before from other anti-hunter don't eat wild game types. All of it is quite easy to refute . So blast way, should be good fun IMHO. Just don't get upset when your objections to hunting are exposed for the foolishness that they are. ok? See, I can be nice when I want to.-Tyr

[red state]

As for "... men who can kill a defenseless animal", those men carved out the GREATEST Nation the world has ever seen with the most abundant wildlife and the most successful management program that benefits animals than EVER seen in this ole Earth's history. In fact, if you would be a bit more tolerant and LISTEN more than SPEAK, you'd learn that there are areas in North America who have more species that are not native to our lands than there are in the countries that such species originated. Some are near extinction in other places of the world YET we have the same species (in abundance) and are enjoyed by hunters who enjoy the healthy nutrition that they provide (as GOD intended).

In closing, [men who can kill a defenseless animal] know all to well that they are not defenseless. It is the girly-men who would soon learn how sophisticated these animals are in avoiding predators.....leaving the REAL men to eat while the girly-men starve or beg from those who CAN. It is the REAL men who left their homes, family, loved ones and way of life to storm European and other beaches all over the world to rescue the men who either could not or would not fight against the onslaught of fascism and other evils.

You see, MY way of life not only provides me with a special oneness with nature, it also feeds my family, keeps my Native American culture alive and prepares me and my kind for bad days which come to mankind. Lessons learned while out in the GREAT OUTDOORS has served a many of my kind in times of war. Should you ever, try to get out into the wild and photograph the animals I hunt, you'd soon learn that it is not like butchering a cow, goat or chicken. Then again, the more liberal areas of Europe (if any countries in Europe) have little to NO wild game worth mentioning.....because they've been practically pushed out of existence Great conservation strategies you leftists have....but this is no place for politics. I encourage you (challenge you) to get out there and enjoy nature (without killing) and get back to me. We'd all love to see and read what you've discovered while in the "KINGS FOREST".

By the way, we good ole boys actually have more of YOUR European deer than you do so you may prefer to come over here if to have a better chance at photographing TRUE WILD and unpinned, stags who live free and without a hand to feed them.

[red state]

Look , if you have something to say about we barbaric cavemen hunters by all means spit it out. It'll not bother me because I am sure I've heard it all before from other anti-hunter don't eat wild game types. All of it is quite easy to refute . So blast way, should be good fun IMHO. Just don't get upset when your objections to hunting are exposed for the foolishness that they are. ok? See, I can be nice when I want to.-Tyr

Solid words of wisdom and a gracious reply that reveals your willingness to engage someone with more patience than I am willing to share. I did not mean to talk for everyone else when I addressed Noir and had hoped that Noir's reply was simply to rile up those of us who love our way of life and the heritage we know to be GREAT. After I thought about it....my only conclusion was simply that of an attack and a spouting off of ignorance so I addressed it with the same amount of respect that OUR thread was given. If Noir wishes to engage anyone or explain to everyone that he was simply poking fun....by all means POKE away, discuss the topic or GO AWAY. I have said my peace and hope to get back to the delightful stories and advice that this tread started with before any rudeness or unpleasantness was implemented. I've quite adequately made my case many times and will turn the mic over to TYR whom will undoubtedly educate Noir respectfully and as adults should discuss matters or expose him for the usual leftist who have no tolerance or intellect in such matters as hunting or survival.

Thanks for pointing out my weakness due to my passion and temper when I encounter stupidity from someone who could/should learn before judging others. I'm sure he'll get a "top notch" education from my good friend TYR so I'll now stand aside, get to church in a minute or two and come back later to discuss Archery, Archery Equipment and the soon to come BOW SEASON.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Solid words of wisdom and a gracious reply that reveals your willingness to engage someone with more patience than I am willing to share. I did not mean to talk for everyone else when I addressed Noir and had hoped that Noir's reply was simply to rile up those of us who love our way of life and the heritage we know to be GREAT. After I thought about it....my only conclusion was simply that of an attack and a spouting off of ignorance so I addressed it with the same amount of respect that OUR thread was given. If Noir wishes to engage anyone or explain to everyone that he was simply poking fun....by all means POKE away, discuss the topic or GO AWAY. I have said my peace and hope to get back to the delightful stories and advice that this tread started with before any rudeness or unpleasantness was implemented. I've quite adequately made my case many times and will turn the mic over to TYR whom will undoubtedly educate Noir respectfully and as adults should discuss matters or expose him for the usual leftist who have no tolerance or intellect in such matters as hunting or survival.

Thanks for pointing out my weakness due to my passion and temper when I encounter stupidity from someone who could/should learn before judging others. I'm sure he'll get a "top notch" education from my good friend TYR so I'll now stand aside, get to church in a minute or two and come back later to discuss Archery, Archery Equipment and the soon to come BOW SEASON. Thanks my friend. As it has been turned over to me I'll now cite my evidence and words of wisdom from an American that knows hunting and knows all its redeeming qualities. So pay attention Noir because these words are solid gold!! Here are those "top notch" words for you to learn from..--Tyr 2 AM #47 (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?42074-Bow-season!!!&p=656030#post656030) http://www.debatepolicy.com/image.php?u=2280&dateline=1343797919 (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?2280-red-state)red state (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?2280-red-state)
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<dl class="userstats"><dt> </dt></dl>

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/icons/icon1.png As for "... men who can kill a defenseless animal", those men carved out the GREATEST Nation the world has ever seen with the most abundant wildlife and the most successful management program that benefits animals than EVER seen in this ole Earth's history. In fact, if you would be a bit more tolerant and LISTEN more than SPEAK, you'd learn that there are areas in North America who have more species that are not native to our lands than there are in the countries that such species originated. Some are near extinction in other places of the world YET we have the same species (in abundance) and are enjoyed by hunters who enjoy the healthy nutrition that they provide (as GOD intended).

In closing, [men who can kill a defenseless animal] know all to well that they are not defenseless. It is the girly-men who would soon learn how sophisticated these animals are in avoiding predators.....leaving the REAL men to eat while the girly-men starve or beg from those who CAN. It is the REAL men who left their homes, family, loved ones and way of life to storm European and other beaches all over the world to rescue the men who either could not or would not fight against the onslaught of fascism and other evils.

You see, MY way of life not only provides me with a special oneness with nature, it also feeds my family, keeps my Native American culture alive and prepares me and my kind for bad days which come to mankind. Lessons learned while out in the GREAT OUTDOORS has served a many of my kind in times of war. Should you ever, try to get out into the wild and photograph the animals I hunt, you'd soon learn that it is not like butchering a cow, goat or chicken. Then again, the more liberal areas of Europe (if any countries in Europe) have little to NO wild game worth mentioning.....because they've been practically pushed out of existence Great conservation strategies you leftists have....but this is no place for politics. I encourage you (challenge you) to get out there and enjoy nature (without killing) and get back to me. We'd all love to see and read what you've discovered while in the "KINGS FOREST".

By the way, we good ole boys actually have more of YOUR European deer than you do so you may prefer to come over here if to have a better chance at photographing TRUE WILD and unpinned, stags who live free and without a hand to feed them.

[red state]

Thanks, TYR, you are too kind. My words were choppy and all over the place so I had preferred someone who had not been agitated as much as I had been write out something with a bit more order so that it is more understandable. A little less hostility than what I put into my writing would have been nice as well.....................................BUT, as long as the message was in there somewhere, I suppose it was successful. HA! I'm the guy who tries to let my buddies do all the talking but if the hammer is to drop....I'll be the first to jump in with EVERYTHING I've got. It is just best for me to try and stay out of it until the more cool headed one in my clan actually says: IT'S ON!

Noir, I do hope you will keep an open mind and research the TRUTH and not allow certain bias or intolerance or indoctrination limit what you know of the world. You'll be the better man if you do your own thinking and look at things from the eyes of others. I try to do the same (which is why I don't have a problem whatsoever with those who prefer not to hunt or protect themselves). What I don't tolerate is others looking down or criticizing my way of life....a way of life and of honor that MY FELLOW AMERICANS have lived and profited from. A way of life that the world has profited from by way of the USA when WE have rescued the world.

[red state]

Headed out the door....church starts at 10:30 (just down the road). Hope everyone has a fantastic LORD's DAY.

[Noir]

One tamely tounge-in-cheek sentence, 8 half page replies, priceless, never change guys (:

My only gripe would be to stop with the sexist comments, 'girly' is not an insult because being a girl is not insulting, maybe something to think over this Lords day ^,^

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

One tamely tounge-in-cheek sentence, 8 half page replies, priceless, never change guys (:

My only gripe would be to stop with the sexist comments, 'girly' is not an insult because being a girl is not insulting, maybe something to think over this Lords day ^,^ Yes, people attempting to correct you on your error in judgment are to be ridiculed for giving too much info or showing too much passion. I seem to recall that you are an atheist, vegetarian, anti-war, type. Now we find out anti-hunting is on the list too. I do not recall ever being too harsh on you for having those views. I just figured you are young and may see the light when you are older. If you do not then it is your loss but not a big deal IMHO. Feel free to correct me if I have been misled in my memory of your being those things that I listed. As too your "tamely tongue in cheek" comment we who have been viciously attacked so often in our past may react quickly and harshly due to those past experiences elsewhere. That does not change or negate the words we may post in defense of hunting. You should understand that had we not cared at all we would have completely ignored you as if you did not exist. Redstate has caused me to be more considerate than my usual self. I often find myself in your case giving you the benefit of the doubt because of your age and yes partly because I believe that you sincerely seek to do what is right. --Tyr

[Noir]

you are an atheist, vegetarian, anti-war, type.

1 out of 3.
Am an athiest. Am not anti-war, and am a Vegan not a vegetarian, which accounts for anti-hunting / bloodsports.


As too your "tamely tongue in cheek" comment we who have been viciously attacked so often in our past may react quickly and harshly due to those past experiences elsewhere.

Dear blesses, it's about hunting, you're not a persecuted people, keep going down t his road and you'll be in bed with Jesse Jackson before long!

[red state]

SCENARIO ONE:
I don't believe in hunting because I view it as being cruel and unnecessary....especially in modern times, but I also see where in some instances hunting can be a crucial part of survival. I enjoy a good steak, fish, foul and seafood but I see no need to kill unless I'm in some sort of danger or am in need of sustenance (such as an economic crisis or accident where normal means of obtaining food is not available). I admire those with the skills to humanely harvest animals and utilize their meat and hides but I detest those who kill for the pleasure and discard much of the usefulness of the animal.


SCENARIO TWO:

I don't believe in hunting because I view it as being cruel and unnecessary....especially in modern times. PERIOD! I believe those who hunt should face the same sentence as a convicted murderer faces when a premeditated act has been successfully executed. I don't believe we, as a civil society, should even use animal products (much less practice the consumption of meats or animal byproducts). I find it disgusting and if king of the world, would ban all use of animals and the consumption of meat. It is wrong and immoral. As for conservation or the well being of game animals, I'd ban all hunting and introduce NATURAL predators to take the place of hunters. The natural order of things will be better in the long run and if deseases or even extinctions are the result, I would dare say that it is simply the natural order of things.....at least we'd have such species in zoos or on footage for future generations. We are no more than animals ourselves and we have no right to enforce our superiority or intellect on the animals who share this world with us.



But in REALITY:
Neither post scenarios were made. They still may have been void of fact in certain areas but I would have respected either post. Instead, we got the same ignorant, disrespectful ONE LINER that proves the point that most leftists are usually intolerant, hateful and lacking of any honor when addressing those who believe differently than they. They are lacking in knowledge as well as common sense so they know only one thing....what they are taught and have been told so they go through life blinded and posting ONE LINERS because they have no passions as we do and truly lack the integrity or intellect to post anything other than "tongue and cheek" one liners. I'm not saying Noir is this way because I've actually enjoyed his posts and have seen a great deal of integrity in some of his posts but this is not one of those times or one of those posts.




I personally feel that we are not animals but we are the caretakers of animals and I have seen no better conservation than that of North American Sportsmen/Hunters. I don't object to those who disagree but I am not going to be disrespectful of them or FORCE them to conform to my ways or beliefs. I've mentioned this in other posts recently and spoke of my two children who love hunting and the one child who is amazed at the skill a hunter develops over time YET she has never fired so much as a BB gun.....but she does like archery. She even enjoyed watching her daddy arrow a buck. Said it was one of the most thrilling and challenging things she's ever seen. I respect her views and appreciate the fact that she respects my views and commitments. I am a very committed hunter and strive to be as humane as possible.....passing up more game than harvesting or attempting to harvest such game.




VEGETARIAN: One who reframes from eating meat or does not believe in eating meat or the product of animals such as eggs or cheese but rather subsists on vegetables (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/vegetable), fruits, nuts, grain and even grasses.


VEGAN: a "suped up version of vegetarian" . More radical in strict beliefs reframing from the consumption of animals or the use of animals. A vegetarian who consumes no animal food or dairy products; also: one who abstains from using animal products (as leather)

Who cares....either one (in my opinion) is WEIRD! But that is your right to deprive your body of things your body may or may not need. I personally believe we are omnivores and need some form of meat consumption to be healthy and not the anirexic looking zombies one sees most of the time as a result of avoiding beef, fish, fowl. I prefer to be normal and will be happy to consume YOUR portion of such foods. HA! See, that is how you respectfully disagree with someone while providing ample info that may steer others away from irrational or damaging decisions (whether that be for or against hunting).

But really....who cares. this is about BOW SEASON so I will start this thing anew:

It is really a bit hot to practice but the season is fast approaching. As soon as it cools down a bit, I'm going to start shooting at least an hour in the morning and an hour just before dark. I truly need to do some walking as well because the more fit you are, the better hunter you'll be. By the time October rolls around, I should be ready to make a perfect shot. Of course, in my younger days, I would normally be doing a lot of scouting for areas to hunt or improve chances of success but in my wisdom and in having some great spots that have proven to be successful time and Time and TIME again, I no longer need to scout (unless slight changes in deer patterns have resulted due to various reasons). So, I should be good to go equipment wise and my property is certainly a winner. All I need to do is hope for great weather and the cooperation of the deer.

By the way, I shoot a DARTON Excel, but I have also hunted with Martin and Browning bows. DARTON is, by far, my weapon of choice. They are relatively compact, FAST and surprisingly smooth. I shoot long, aluminum shafts with ALL white turkey feathers (five inches). I sometime place a twist when fletching my own arrows but most of the time, I have plenty of success in plain old straight glued feathers. This length in the arrows and the fletching/feathers are the main thing for stability and the white coloration provides me with ample arrow flight viability....as well as info for instances where I have not seen or heard the deer go down. If, by any chance, I've not made the best of shots or some unforeseen arrow flight or reflex of the deer has caused me to make a not-so-perfect shot, I can "read" the blood on the white to let me know what part of the vitals was hit (whether liver, lungs, heart or all three). If I've hit the liver, the animal must be left alone for at least an hour or so before tracking the blood trail. This allows the deer to go less of a distance, lie down and fall asleep (literally). If the white reads a great deal of bubbly blood, I'll not be so reluctant to wait but 15 to 20 minutes should always be the amount of time one waits before tracking a hit animal (even it you've seen the animal go down).

Anyway, I hope this helps and I look forward to any advice or details that I've missed. Of course, there are many details not covered here that help in preparing to be the BEST predator that one can be (such as clothing, scents, food plots, the planting of certain trees, strategies and even a clearing/cleansing of the mind, but this'll do it for now. I look forward to the same respectful and heart felt responses this thread had (before it was interrupted with the ONE LINER). But as I said, this thread is open to other topics (such as bow fishing, tournaments, hunting tales and past/present photos). An opposing view is even welcome....but please don't bore us with one liners or the same disrespect that leftists are notorious for.

Church services start again in an hour or two so I'll leave it open for now...

Happy hunting to all.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

1 out of 3.
Am an athiest. Am not anti-war, and am a Vegan not a vegetarian, which accounts for anti-hunting / bloodsports.



Dear blesses, it's about hunting, you're not a persecuted people, keep going down t his road and you'll be in bed with Jesse Jackson before long! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I hope not, my wife wouldn't take kindly to any of that .:laugh: So atheist and Vegan. Well , I guess believing there is no God goes hand in hand with believing that certain animals were not meant to be fine food on the table for our consumption. WRONG, but is your right to believe as you wish. Life is too short to miss out on some of the best food on earth IMHO... -Tyr

[Perianne]

I don't think I could kill an animal. But I don't knock the ones who do. There is nothing wrong with killing an animal as long as you eat it. But not dogs, like Obama.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I don't think I could kill an animal. But I don't knock the ones who do. There is nothing wrong with killing an animal as long as you eat it. But not dogs, like Obama. Killing animals for food is as old as mankind. It's historically noted that man hunted long before he ever sought to grow crops! I no longer ever shot live things just for practice. I do shoot live things for food as I do not trophy hunt and never have. There is a connecting to our past that ethical hunting brings and its very hard to explain to none hunters or those that have not that in their heritage. As an American with Native American blood in my veins I hunt for the connection to my past and because I enjoy it and the food it provides. Wild game is mighty tasty... - ;)-Tyr

[red state]

Well, I'm ready to do some KILLIN'.....the weather was absolutely PERFECT for an opening EARLY season day. Made me want to go out and get some deer steaks for lunch or supper. So, what kind of day do any of you other hunters like. I personally don't like the cold as much now that I'm a bit older and I appreciate what a decent wind can do for ya. One can get too much of anything but TODAY was the type of day I LOVE. It is cool in the morning and warm enough to take a dip in the old pond (after you've gotten hot dragging your buck out). HA!

[red state]

I don't think I could kill an animal. But I don't knock the ones who do. There is nothing wrong with killing an animal as long as you eat it. But not dogs, like Obama.

Perianne, I don't enjoy killing the animal but I do enjoy the hunt and ALL that leads up to taking the shot. I actually do feel for the animal that I so intimately respect but most of what I feel when attempting to harvest an animal and when the time of TRUTH is presented is an extremely frightened feeling (almost as if I were back in Junior High and the coach tells me to fill in for the FIRST string tight end). The butterflies of trying and the fear of failing is only magnified with the worry of something going wrong. Missing is just a part of the enjoyment but a bad shot is a horrific, sickening feeling. It doesn't happen often (if one is diligent in practicing and preparing for things such as limbs that could be in the way....therefor I usually do a bit of clearing) but it is something that will happen and is a part of life and death. After a well placed shot, I feel relieved and a bit excited to listen for the crash that usually comes after a well placed arrow has met its destination. Still, whether killing a deer or a turkey, I always know that this deer will never again be an enjoyment of watching walk by or the turkey TOM will never again give me the enjoyment of his triumphant gobble in the hard woods where I hunt. Same as with a great fish (be it bass or marlin)....never again will that fish that you've caught give you or anyone else the enjoyment of seeing it emerge from the water and make a majestic splash. But, I do eat them and God has made them for our enjoyment and to manage.

[Jeff]

I came in to the house Last night and had a couple of Bucks cross right in front of me then two doe and a yearling crossed all headed to the land right behind my house, there is going to be some fine eating at my house very soon ;)

[red state]

I came in to the house Last night and had a couple of Bucks cross right in front of me then two doe and a yearling crossed all headed to the land right behind my house, there is going to be some fine eating at my house very soon ;)

Yeah....especially if I come over there. I get enough for both our families. HA! In fact, I may get a head start on you if you don't hurry up and get your bow and bow practicing in.

Just saw a guy today in Walmart stocking up in kids bows and such. I started a conversation and tried to help him all I could.....he seemed very nice and enthusiastic to be rigging his 8 yr old daughter and 5 year old son up for archery. It brought back memories for me and I appreciated him getting them in a sport/hobby/way of life that will benefit in and out of the woods. He's well on his way to having some great kids and adults one day.

I was in town buying a 1700 Diesel tractor and on the way home, saw a HUGE doe and her little one. She must have had that ONE lil' one early cuz it had NO spots and was almost half the size of the mom. Around here, it isn't normal to see fawns this early and you see very small fawns with spots well into the early and mid archery season.

Say, if anyone knows anything about tractors (especially the Ford 1700) I'd certainly appreciate them PMing me. I plan to really use this beauty in the coming month or two. Got a lot of road smoothing, bushogging and food plot planting to do. I'll get my old RED Ford 600 fixed and use it while my son uses the much safer (seemingly anyway) blue 1700.

Anyway, I see a very good dear season this year and even ate a few of the apples and grapes that are ripe right now in my dad's orchard....very good tasting this year and I'm sure the acorns will be as tasty. Good huntin' ALL.

[Perianne]

Do any of you kill dogs and eat them?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Do any of you kill dogs and eat them?
No not that I am aware of but this guy did! He ate snake too which to me points to cannibalism.. -Tyr
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0412/75296.html Obama eating dog: The 11 best tweets By MJ LEE (http://www.politico.com/reporters/MJLee.html) | 4/18/12 10:52 AM EDT
<iframe name="iframe_odiogo_0" width="290" height="0" id="iframe_odiogo_0" src="" frameborder="0" scrolling="no"></iframe>
The dog-eat-dog world of the 2012 presidential campaign just got a little nastier.
The Daily Caller’s Jim Treacher on Tuesday flagged (http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/17/obama-bites-dog/) a passage from President Barack Obama’s memoir “Dreams From My Father,” in which Obama recalls eating dog meat in Indonesia when he was a young boy. (The president describes the meat as “tough,” but not as tough as the snake meat he also ate.)
Continue Reading (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0412/75296.html#continue)
<!--/#adjustTextSize-->
<!--/.embed-mod-->
<!--/.story-embed--> “Say what you want about Romney, but at least he only put a dog on the roof of his car, not the roof of his mouth,” Treacher wrote, referencing the infamous tale (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0412/74983.html) about Mitt Romney’s dog Seamus being forced to ride on the roof of the former governor’s family car during a highway drive in the 1980s — a bizarre story that the Obama campaign has seized on to question the character of the president’s likely Republican opponent




Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0412/75296.html#ixzz2c3C3NgIh - or this link.. http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/04/obama-as-a-boy-ate-dog-meat/

[red state]

Do any of you kill dogs and eat them?

Perianne, did you mean HOGS or dog? Tyr has already obliged us with a POLITICAL statement and I had hoped this thread would not go in that direction but if you were attempting to execute a particular agenda with a question that you surely knew to be ridiculous, then TYR handled it better than I. If you are simply funning around and attempting to play the attractive/dumb blonde that your avatar suggests, then NO....how could I eat my best friend?

Dogs have long been part of the human family and I revere them greatly. On two or three different occassions, it was a dog that tracked or found a slightly OFF shot I had made on a deer so they are too valuable (as is a horse) to eat. In fact, messing with a SOUTHERNER's dog can (and has) gotten folks KILLED. No, and as TYR so eloquently put it, only the SOW (the Son of a whore) in OUR White House has eaten dog so I hope this answers your question.

As I've told Tyr on other occasions...."There's too many GOOD TASTING ANIMALS to eat before I'd pick up eating possum, coon or the French delicacy of snails and such." Likewise, I've said this many times, and being from the South, it has left me black-balled but I find that there are too many parts of a hog that suits me just fine (without resorting to eating their intestines, 'manhood' and feet). HA!!!

Speaking of HOG...and kinda getting back on TOPIC, check out the video below: it may not have been harvested with two sticks and a string but this guy seems to have done just fine with ONE long stick (better known as a spear....so you gals don't get too excited). HA!!!!

http://discussions.texasbowhunter.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210868

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Checked her posts and this was the last one she made. A week ago! Do not know if she has visited since then but it was the last post made by her..

[red state]

Tyr, if I ever get the time and figure out how to convert some of my videos (VHS) I'll try to post some of my hunts (successes and misses). If Jim is reading this and has a problem with posting hunts, I'll simply respect that and have folks PM me with the links to my hunts and other folk's hunts.

Jim, by all means, jump in to the discussion. This thread is not limited to bow hunters....it is open to ALL (those who hunt with gun, bow or simply have questions about hunting). I just hope it is positive questions and not the type of junk we get from loons who simply post to disrespect our way of life. A system that has served my people well for many moons.

[red state]

Checked her posts and this was the last one she made. A week ago! Do not know if she has visited since then but it was the last post made by her..

Well, you handled it correctly then (with FACT from another who seems to know all about eating dog...among other things). I responded to her more "respectful" comment but failed to see this one till today. Hope you didn't run her or NOIR off......not. HA! Seriously though, if they dropped in to simply ridicule something they know nothing of....that is their problem. A wise man seeks knowledge through legitimate questions....not to ridicule or insult others.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Well, you handled it correctly then (with FACT from another who seems to know all about eating dog...among other things). I responded to her more "respectful" comment but failed to see this one till today. Hope you didn't run her or NOIR off......not. HA! Seriously though, if they dropped in to simply ridicule something they know nothing of....that is their problem. A wise man seeks knowledge through legitimate questions....not to ridicule or insult others. I saw where she thanked my reply to her question. Maybe she took a vacation or has been very busy. It happens.


The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Tyr-Ziu Saxnot For This Useful Post:
Gaffer (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=23) (08-15-2013),Perianne (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=2722) (08-15-2013),red state (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=2280) (Today)

[red state]

SENT U A PM...

The hunting with a spear isn't anything I'd particularly get into but I would like to try it and spear fishing one day. Bow fishing is great but to actually get in and UNDER the water where the fish are and tag one would be outstanding.

Anyway, talk to ya more within the PM.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Tyr, if I ever get the time and figure out how to convert some of my videos (VHS) I'll try to post some of my hunts (successes and misses). If Jim is reading this and has a problem with posting hunts, I'll simply respect that and have folks PM me with the links to my hunts and other folk's hunts.

Jim, by all means, jump in to the discussion. This thread is not limited to bow hunters....it is open to ALL (those who hunt with gun, bow or simply have questions about hunting). I just hope it is positive questions and not the type of junk we get from loons who simply post to disrespect our way of life. A system that has served my people well for many moons.

http://www.imarketcity.com/adavvicadeco.html?gclid=COTOhc33j7kCFZSi4AodPw4AYQ

[red state]

Thanks....I suppose I always thought it would be expensive. Dad had our old family videos (old school and without sound) converted to VHS so I couldn't see why the same couldn't be applied to my VHS. I have three different formats as I've used different recorders over the years. At the very least, or until my wife (THE SHOPPER) can order me one, I suppose I could, at least, slap a video in and record it from our more modern recorder.

THANKS

[red state]

Marcus, I actually talked to my wife about it and she thinks that we can simply play our old VHS and record it to a DVD. Then we could load it to my computer and possibly edit the download with some very nice FREE software I've found online. Looked in Walmart today....they had no such cables you suggested so I may try and find some on Ebay or buy the item you sent within that link. Still, it seems that my DVD/VHS recorder should do the trick. Funny how we get so involved in life that we don't take time to do such things with the technology we're blessed with these days. I did see a very nifty (yet expensive) lil' gadget that skateboarders and divers (sky and water) use. They are impact resistant and water resistant. That would have came in handy when I videoed my own hunts 15-20 years ago. I used my camcorders (went through 5 of them over the years) and custom mounted it to a hard hat. In this way and depending on how I had zoomed, you could see me draw, shoot, and the impact of the deer. In some instances, I was able to take the helmet off, hold it as one would normally hold a camcorder and zoom in to get the deer going down. I overcame the cold/battery problem by rigging me up a motorcycle battery instead of using the camcorder battery. Those batteries lasted FOREVER and regardless of how cold it was. Another beauty to this was in using the battery with a home made light system for tracking the deer at night...very bright, WHITE light. I would never go through all that nowdays but it sure was fun then and it even made me a better shot cuz you had to have a great deal of followthru in keeping your anchor point so that the camera could see the entire shot sequence.

I'm gonna try my best to try our DVD recorder or the cool cables you found.

Again, THANKS! You have sparked an interest in me that died long ago. I may even fork out the $200 bucks for that head cam I saw at Walmart.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Marcus, I actually talked to my wife about it and she thinks that we can simply play our old VHS and record it to a DVD. Then we could load it to my computer and possibly edit the download with some very nice FREE software I've found online. Looked in Walmart today....they had no such cables you suggested so I may try and find some on Ebay or buy the item you sent within that link. Still, it seems that my DVD/VHS recorder should do the trick. Funny how we get so involved in life that we don't take time to do such things with the technology we're blessed with these days. I did see a very nifty (yet expensive) lil' gadget that skateboarders and divers (sky and water) use. They are impact resistant and water resistant. That would have came in handy when I videoed my own hunts 15-20 years ago. I used my camcorders (went through 5 of them over the years) and custom mounted it to a hard hat. In this way and depending on how I had zoomed, you could see me draw, shoot, and the impact of the deer. In some instances, I was able to take the helmet off, hold it as one would normally hold a camcorder and zoom in to get the deer going down. I overcame the cold/battery problem by rigging me up a motorcycle battery instead of using the camcorder battery. Those batteries lasted FOREVER and regardless of how cold it was. Another beauty to this was in using the battery with a home made light system for tracking the deer at night...very bright, WHITE light. I would never go through all that nowdays but it sure was fun then and it even made me a better shot cuz you had to have a great deal of followthru in keeping your anchor point so that the camera could see the entire shot sequence.

I'm gonna try my best to try our DVD recorder or the cool cables you found.

Again, THANKS! You have sparked an interest in me that died long ago. I may even fork out the $200 bucks for that head cam I saw at Walmart. Wow, never spent a dime to record my hunting. I did take some pics with my home camera and had a small photo album that I 've looked for and can not find. I damn sure hope the ex-wife didn't take it when she made a "grab stuff run" on my house before I changed my locks 9 years ago. Still have all the stuff in the antic above the garage to look thru and if its not there she tossed it or made off with it like she did with some really old coins and paper money I had collected over the decades. I guess I should be glad she didn't steal some of my pistols that day. Although I had a really heavy gold chain that had been given to me by a former girlfriend that disappeared back then too. It was given to me back in 1979 when gold was really low price. I can only imagine its worth now if I still had it. Pappy told me some of these dang women jest can't be trusted.:laugh:--Tyr Anyways, hope you can post some of your videos my friend . I'd really enjoy seeing them..

[red state]

Just got back from a very nice 23rd Anniversary of marriage but we've known each other for 25+ years. Had a great time in the mountains and found some more really nice (NEW) places to hit again come Thanksgiving. Jeff, I never could find that place we talked about but we love our area to pieces and back and saw that the folks in charge of the site link you sent had many properties in our general area anyway. Not sure if I'll go back to the mountains in Aug/Sept. ever again cuz it was hotter than our normal stay in Feb and Nov and there were MANY bikers to watch out for, more ambulances and even more eggheads from Virginia (who seemed to be very strange city-people). I was surprised that one of the biggest eggheads was from TEXAS (sorry Larry....I was as surprised as you are). HA!!! The best, most friendly folks we met were Cuban/Americans from Florida. Not one person (that I saw) was from Arkansas, LA or Mississippi (NOT ONE) and the only Tennesseans were from the general area so that left MANY from Virginia, a few from N and S Carolina and very few from PA and Kentucky. Saw no bear but saw a bunch of young turkey around Pittman Center (where we love to stay) and a really nice buck at Cade's Cove. It simply wasn't the best lot of folks that we're accustomed to while in the Smokies.

Tyr, I'll dig around in the media closet for some of those videos and see if my CD recorder/VHS player will be able to copy from VHS to CD. A lot going on right now as it was also my son's 20th birthday. He has two crossbow kills on tape from when he was 12 or older and (if I can find it) a bow hunt that he begged me to destroy but I kept it somewhere. Probably won't post it cuz he's not happy with the outcome at all but dear ole dad certainly put him on a whole lotta deer. HA!!!

I really liked the idea Marcus posted but if I can do it the way I described above, I will. That'll keep me from having another set of cables to loose (or buy). HA!!! The expense was well worth it then and I suppose it still is but I can see where you are coming from as I've not spent any effort, time or money in video taping my hunts in SEVERAL years. I also understand that you have to actually video a hunt before you can say that you'ver invested ANY money in such a hobby. I stayed with the basics and redneck ingenuity so I never invested much (other than the same equiptment that was used for family functions (and an improvised hard hat). HA!!! The time and effort is considerable more expensive and it does whittle down considerably on the enjoyment of the hunt.....very uncomfortable carrying and wearing the extra stuff. It did make me a better shot, however. The follow-through had to be much better to get the entire shot (with the animal running off and, in some cases, going down). I've not killed as many deer (or cared to) since I stopped video tapping and even considered taking "my" new camera out hunting this year instead of a bow. This camera is significantly better than my old FILM Nikon FG cuz it is also a video camera (although limited to certain time frames).

Took some really nice photos of the mountains (even got a falcon with a 5" or so fish in his talons. My wife got [US] a new Nikon Camera with a 300 zoom lens and I've really enjoyed it so far!!! I did see a shock and water resistant mini-cam that I'd love to have but that'll have to be for Christmas cuz it is pretty darn high for what you get. Only the water and shock resistant aspect of it interests me enough to fork out that kind of money (that could buy me another bow). HA!!!! I just about ruined a Sony Camcorder a few years back when I had the bright idea of strapping it to my 30.06 Browning bolt action. HA! It went completely blank for a few seconds and then came back on after shooting that blame thing!!!! I took it off as fast as I could and never told my wife about it. HA! Yeah, we've have several camcorders over the years...

The sad thing is....we've got all kinds of family videos that could be posted to our Facebook if we had ever taken the time to "modernize" them. The really sad thing is that we never watch any of the old videos....hunting or family.

[red state]

Wow, never spent a dime to record my hunting. I did take some pics with my home camera and had a small photo album that I 've looked for and can not find. I damn sure hope the ex-wife didn't take it when she made a "grab stuff run" on my house before I changed my locks 9 years ago. Still have all the stuff in the antic above the garage to look thru and if its not there she tossed it or made off with it like she did with some really old coins and paper money I had collected over the decades. I guess I should be glad she didn't steal some of my pistols that day. Although I had a really heavy gold chain that had been given to me by a former girlfriend that disappeared back then too. It was given to me back in 1979 when gold was really low price. I can only imagine its worth now if I still had it. Pappy told me some of these dang women jest can't be trusted.:laugh:--Tyr Anyways, hope you can post some of your videos my friend . I'd really enjoy seeing them..

Well, Tyr, old buddy, you friends would have probably appreciated your recording hunts cuz mine certainly have. Just so you know, I'm very tight with my money and would usually record over an original hunt after making a copy or two (one for me and one for my friends). I lost a bit of quality doing that but the VHS that I already had was cheaper than the small tapes and stuff that the more modern cameras used. Taping hunts was big back then but now just about everyone does it. Had I stuck to it, I could have been a pioneer as the GREAT Dan Fitzgerald was in the early 80's. I still prefer his old tapes to the new "junk" that's on the outdoor channel. Anyway, the expense is the least of it all. The time and preparation in doing it right is 95% of it. when I first started, my buddy and I were taking turns on the camera but it seemed that I always ended up behind the camera some how and he never had the patience to actually let the deer come in for a good video so I dropped him and started doing it all by my lonesome. That's quite a job with the equipment I used and "created". Sure would have been nice to have one of those small (yet high quality) deals that are now impact and water resistant. I even cut out an old coke bottle to protect my camera from drizzle and such (back in the day). HA!!!

PS; please see my post on the previous page....

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Glad you guys had a great time!!! Always good to get away for a while.. I'm long overdue.. Just too many sticks in the fire now Hoss. :laugh:--Tyr

[red state]

Re-set both my PRO-LINE and DARTON bow today and shot up to 50 yards. I shot well up to 40 yards but at 50, I started getting wild. Of course, I had already shot WAY too much at 20, 30 and a bit at 40 which tired me out and made my fingers extremely soar. My shoulders and all seem fine now but I'll probably feel EVERYTHING in the morning. HA!

Well, I shot well enough to head out this evening...not doing anything else really. It is a bit too hot but we've been seeing them at ALL times of the day so I could very well sit by a group of white oaks to cool off and possibly get a shot off in an hour or so.....gotta get moving though cuz it's after four now. I just finished lunch so I'll have to digest a bit before heading out.

Hope you shot today and are pleased with your groupings. http://perspectives.com/forums/images/smilies/cheers2.gif

~Red

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Re-set both my PRO-LINE and DARTON bow today and shot up to 50 yards. I shot well up to 40 yards but at 50, I started getting wild. Of course, I had already shot WAY too much at 20, 30 and a bit at 40 which tired me out and made my fingers extremely soar. My shoulders and all seem fine now but I'll probably feel EVERYTHING in the morning. HA!

Well, I shot well enough to head out this evening...not doing anything else really. It is a bit too hot but we've been seeing them at ALL times of the day so I could very well sit by a group of white oaks to cool off and possibly get a shot off in an hour or so.....gotta get moving though cuz it's after four now. I just finished lunch so I'll have to digest a bit before heading out.

Hope you shot today and are pleased with your groupings. http://perspectives.com/forums/images/smilies/cheers2.gif

~Red No, did not shoot today. My brother driving over tomorrow to do some shooting out by my sister's home in the country. He wants to do some stump shooting but I currently have only one arrow with a judo point. Old one at that, likely to get broken the first few rounds. We always compete a dollar a shot. On a good day I usually win about 30 to 40 bucks before he gives up on the betting. He now notices I always start off shooting badly until he suggests we start competing a dollar a shot. Then magically I pull it together and out perform him! ;) And no I don't feel bad doing him like that ,he is loaded. Dropping 40 bucks to me for him is like spending a nickel. Takes a bigger toll on his ego than anything else. :laugh: My other brother Ricky has refused to shoot with me like that for over 20 years now. Calls me a sandbagger. :laugh: He phoned that he may join us Sunday. Which usually means that he will not show up. I will sight in my bows tonight, by stringing each one and pulling them twice each.-- :laugh: --Tyr

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

ahhh, no comment on my little joke. :laugh:
I will sight in my bows tonight, by stringing each one and pulling them twice each.-- --Tyr

[red state]

No, did not shoot today. My brother driving over tomorrow to do some shooting out by my sister's home in the country. He wants to do some stump shooting but I currently have only one arrow with a judo point. Old one at that, likely to get broken the first few rounds. We always compete a dollar a shot. On a good day I usually win about 30 to 40 bucks before he gives up on the betting. He now notices I always start off shooting badly until he suggests we start competing a dollar a shot. Then magically I pull it together and out perform him! ;) And no I don't feel bad doing him like that ,he is loaded. Dropping 40 bucks to me for him is like spending a nickel. Takes a bigger toll on his ego than anything else. :laugh: My other brother Ricky has refused to shoot with me like that for over 20 years now. Calls me a sandbagger. :laugh: He phoned that he may join us Sunday. Which usually means that he will not show up. I will sight in my bows tonight, by stringing each one and pulling them twice each.-- :laugh: --Tyr

It's a NO GO....Just looked up the season schedule and saw that it is not open yet (usually when the 1st lands on a Monday or something, it opens in Sept) but not any more....

Sorry to hear that you didn't shoot but it seems that you'll get in some good practice with your brother. That is funny about you sighting in your bow. I can do the same by simply running it through in my head and pulling it back but to make sure that my time (and the deer) isn't wasted, I use sites and stuff. I can hunt both with and without sites (but you know all of this). I just had to get it out cuz I detect a little ANTI-COMPOUND bow sarcasm there. HA!!! I don't care how good a guy is....he can never be as consistent by shooting instinctive as he could had he implemented modern day sites, peeps, rests, stabilizers etc.

I may have to move to Kentucky...Kentucky

Archery: Saturday, September 7th, 2013, through Monday, January 20th, 2014, except quota hunt days and the day immediately before each quota hunt
Quota hunts: October 26th-27th and November 23rd-24th
Crossbow: October 1st-20th and November 9th-December 31st, except quota hunt days and the day immediately before each quota hunt

__________________________________________________ _____________________________They got it going on!



Our area:

ArkansasArkansas Game and Fish Commission Hunting Guidebook 2012-13
Wildlife • Deer
Mark Your Calendars For Next Year:
2013 Deer Season Opening Dates
Archery. Saturday, Sept. 28, 2013
Muzzleloader. Saturday, Oct. 19, 2013
Modern Gun. Saturday, Nov. 9, 2013

Mississippi

Archery Tuesday, Oct. 1, 2013, through Nov. 22
Quota hunts: Archery weapons include: Longbows, recurves, compound bows, and crossbows. There is nominimumormaximumdraw weight. There is nominimumarrow length. Fixed or mechanical broadheads may be used.
AntleredBuck Deer:The bag limit on antlered buck deeris one (1) buck per day, notto exceed three (3) perlicense year.
Legal bucksmustmeetthe antler criteriawithin the appropriate deermanagement zone.
For youth huntersfifteen (15) years of age and younger, hunting on private land and authorized state and federal lands, all three (3) ofthe three (3) buck bag limit may be any
antlered deer.
Antlerless Deer:The bag limit on antlerless deeris one (1) per day, not to exceed five
(5) perlicense year.
Spotted Fawns are not to be killed or molested at any time.

http://mdwfp.com/media/7311/Hunting_seasons.pdf

Tennessee

Archery/Crossbow: Saturday, September 28th 2013, through Sunday, January 5th, 2014, except quota hunt days and the day immediately before each quota hunt
Quota hunts: October 19th-20th, November 15th-16th, and November 29th-30th


Hope you win a lot of money tomorrow. Perhaps I can take some of your brother's money someday (out of his hand and yours). HA!!!

[red state]

ahhh, no comment on my little joke. :laugh:

Well, I have the single pin (adjustable) so I'm going to go back out to the archery range and shift my pin (in both bows) to the "out of the way spot" and shoot instinctive. I'll get back to you on how I do. All the kids are going to a friends house to watch the football game and then David and his friend are going out to run their dogs.

Anyway, I did comment on your joke and did pick up on it but was busy writing a long reply with dates from our Southern hunting schedules. Looks as though some States have it going on and Mississippi (YET AGAIN) is put back in the corner.

Maybe we can play "HORSE" one day (as in the basketball game) but use only our bows. Heck, I'll even use one of my home-made bows. Oh...I have also made some really nice pipes and walking canes. If I can ever get my kiln going, I'm gonna get back into pottery. I have been an award winning potter/sculpter earlier in life and hope to get my own shop with Native American/Mountain man items. My wife and I have dreamed of living in the mountains and doing what others seem to enjoy. Bow making and other things that can be used and were a part of our heritage is something that I'd very much enjoy doing so.....once we find some property (at a steal) we may very well do that. We have been looking and it seems that we have missed our window of opportunity for a real deal. Everything was stagnant but it's now on the rebound. I do expect another fall back and as a former investor.....I'm just waiting to make a deal that is in my favor. You won't believe what I bought my hunting land for....so I'll not share that personal info cuz it is unbelievable. Look, TYR, I am NOT a gambling man so if ever I agree to a gentleman's wager.....you can bet your bottom dollar (or last dollar) that I'm in it for the SURE thing. Just giving you fair warning in a long, drawn out way. HA!!!

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

It's a NO GO....Just looked up the season schedule and saw that it is not open yet (usually when the 1st lands on a Monday or something, it opens in Sept) but not any more....

Sorry to hear that you didn't shoot but it seems that you'll get in some good practice with your brother. That is funny about you sighting in your bow. I can do the same by simply running it through in my head and pulling it back but to make sure that my time (and the deer) isn't wasted, I use sites and stuff. I can hunt both with and without sites (but you know all of this). I just had to get it out cuz I detect a little ANTI-COMPOUND bow sarcasm there. HA!!! I don't care how good a guy is....he can never be as consistent by shooting instinctive as he could had he implemented modern day sites, peeps, rests, stabilizers etc.

I may have to move to Kentucky...Kentucky

Archery: Saturday, September 7th, 2013, through Monday, January 20th, 2014, except quota hunt days and the day immediately before each quota hunt
Quota hunts: October 26th-27th and November 23rd-24th
Crossbow: October 1st-20th and November 9th-December 31st, except quota hunt days and the day immediately before each quota hunt

__________________________________________________ _____________________________They got it going on!



Our area:

ArkansasArkansas Game and Fish Commission Hunting Guidebook 2012-13
Wildlife • Deer
Mark Your Calendars For Next Year:
2013 Deer Season Opening Dates
Archery. Saturday, Sept. 28, 2013
Muzzleloader. Saturday, Oct. 19, 2013
Modern Gun. Saturday, Nov. 9, 2013

Mississippi

Archery Tuesday, Oct. 1, 2013, through Nov. 22
Quota hunts: Archery weapons include: Longbows, recurves, compound bows, and crossbows. There is nominimumormaximumdraw weight. There is nominimumarrow length. Fixed or mechanical broadheads may be used.
AntleredBuck Deer:The bag limit on antlered buck deeris one (1) buck per day, notto exceed three (3) perlicense year.
Legal bucksmustmeetthe antler criteriawithin the appropriate deermanagement zone.
For youth huntersfifteen (15) years of age and younger, hunting on private land and authorized state and federal lands, all three (3) ofthe three (3) buck bag limit may be any
antlered deer.
Antlerless Deer:The bag limit on antlerless deeris one (1) per day, not to exceed five
(5) perlicense year.
Spotted Fawns are not to be killed or molested at any time.

http://mdwfp.com/media/7311/Hunting_seasons.pdf

Tennessee

Archery/Crossbow: Saturday, September 28th 2013, through Sunday, January 5th, 2014, except quota hunt days and the day immediately before each quota hunt
Quota hunts: October 19th-20th, November 15th-16th, and November 29th-30th


Hope you win a lot of money tomorrow. Perhaps I can take some of your brother's money someday (out of his hand and yours). HA!!! Byron Ferguson would disagree and so would Howard Hill were he alive today my friend. Try shooting aspirins out of the air with a compound and sights. And yes it was some good nature ribbing about the compound and sights. If my brother brings up competing then he'll lose, I never bring it up myself. I let him hang himself so to speak. Just toss out the line and when the fish bites reel it in. By the way, he NEVER offers competing against me with guns! I broke him of that decades ago. Last time we did that in the early 80's he lost 600 bucks to me and learned his lesson. Occasionally, to mess with him I'll say lets do some pistol competition shooting. He usually just curses me a time or two. As he knows its just a small bit of payback for much of the crap he has pulled on me over these many years. :laugh:-Tyr

[red state]

Byron Ferguson would disagree and so would Howard Hill were he alive today my friend. Try shooting aspirins out of the air with a compound and sights. And yes it was some good nature ribbing about the compound and sights. If my brother brings up competing then he'll lose, I never bring it up myself. I let him hang himself so to speak. Just toss out the line and when the fish bites reel it in. By the way, he NEVER offers competing against me with guns! I broke him of that decades ago. Last time we did that in the early 80's he lost 600 bucks to me and learned his lesson. Occasionally, to mess with him I'll say lets do some pistol competition shooting. He usually just curses me a time or two. As he knows its just a small bit of payback for much of the crap he has pulled on me over these many years. :laugh:-Tyr


Now, TYR, if you want a debate....you may have one HERE and NOW (as I am not able to go hunting and the wife caught me before I could head out to the archery range again). YES, I agree that one can not "quick draw" as Fergoson does aspirin....but he can't do it everytime either and it is pretty much a set up as he is short range and relies on repetition. Besides, he has many 'takes' before getting much of it right. I shoot all kinds of ways and will not say one is better than the other but to do my TIME and the animal justice.....I prefer to shoot sites. If I was a starving pilgrim, I'd shoot instinctive as I am so very capable of doing.....bow fishing (fore example) but to close this little debate, you can not tell me that a rifle (without a scope) is better than a rifle with the BEST OF THE BEST scopes (I shoot Leupold) and the same principle is with archery. At short distances, it really doesn't matter but as CONSISTENCY goes....you can't beat an archer with sites (at 100yds). In fact, you can't beat an archer in HOLDING STEADY at 100 yds if you have an older compound with 50-65% let-off as compared to these new contraptions that have up to 90% let-off. Again, I'm not saying one way is better than the other but you MUST admit that sites allow one to be more precise time and Time and TIME again at longer distances in hitting smaller targets. It is just fact.....HA!!!!

OK....since I told my wife that we're not going out (AGAIN) she wants me to fire up the grill............CAN'T WIN FOR LOSING SOMETIMES!!!!

[red state]

OK...while firing up the grill, I got away from the Mrs's and shot instinctively. I shot SUPER low but quickly adjusted. I then (almost) proved myself wrong on consistency but when going back to sites, busted the plum-sized target that dangled from a string time after time after time. Had the target been a deer's vitals, I would have killed it each time (instinctively) at distances up to 17 yards. Still, one should be able to see the importance of both sites and using instinct. When bowfishing, I do not use sites because (in most cases) the gator-gar require quick-draw & release tactics and too much (such as the varying depths of the water come into play that sites would only hamper and delay a HIT).

There are so many shooting styles and bows out there that one could truly argue different points all day long or all night around the campfire. I prefer bows with little LET-OFF cuz I shoot quickly in most cases and the addition let-off feels so strange that it messes my form/style up too much. That doesn't mean that I don't or can't appreciate the importance of having the newer/high tech bows with extreme let-off.

Another argument that is really silly has to do with primitive archery nuts who accuse one as inferior simply because of their using the SHAFT SHOOTING style instead of true instinctive styles. This is similar to the case that traditional archers use to downplay the skill or preference that modern archers have in using sites. I'm for ALL archery (even cross bows) because they are all primitive weapons (regardless of how "techy" they have evolved over the years). Why....I'm know of folks who look down on recurver traditional archers who prefer the laminated (once-upon-a-time techy RECURVE limbs). I'd go as far as to say if you haven't built your own bow and use it.....don't use any other bow because you're just as guilty as "PURCHASING" a ceraint amount of technology, skill or tools.

[red state]

TYR, I know you are doing all of that in good nature (as I am) but I also see it as a good topic for the Bow Season thread. I should have simply made it a Guns, Bows and good ole boy thread instead. Everything GOOD about the great outdoors is open for discussion but my main passion happens to be bow hunting.

Since you mentioned GUNS and reeling in the fish.....how do you fair in LONG distance shooting? I assume that you are MUCH better with pistols and at close range because pistols are not my strong suit BUT, I could probably be your huckaberry if I were to bring my rifle out of retirement. We load our own military powder (when we could get it) and did quit a lot of shooting back in the day. In fact, remind me and I'd love to invite you and Justin to our Men's (father & son) day of shooting come May. We pitch washers, horse shoes, shoot shotguns, rifles, pistols......everything but bows but I'd bring mine if you wanted to show folks your bows. I imagine they'd be as much the talk of the party as some of my friends $10,000.oo PLUS shotguns. I can't imagine spending over $2,000 for a rifle but THAT for a shotgun!!!!! Get outta here!

[red state]

Oh....and just so you know....I reset both of my bows cuz I bought new arrows (the same as my son's size since we have identical bows) and with those and my new broadheads, I now have two bows that are TOTALLY interchangeable without having to worry about this or that when it comes to matching them up. I take one bow *(my DARTON) for evening hunts (cuz it has fiber optic/battery operated/light-sites) and my other one for day time cuz it is lighter and easier to adjust the yardages while stalking. Both have their own SLING and both are fully decked out. I still have my old browning bow and others that have 50% or less LET-OFF which makes them more like a recurve but they are too slow for my deer. HA!!! They also have too much ARCH in their archery. HA!!! I haven't changed my set-up in YEARS (till today). I agree, however, once upon a time, all I did was pull my bow back a few times and "pretend" to shoot as this kept my eye trained on the target. I still shot but it was really just for fun and not practice. Whatever I put my eye on.....was dead! Of course, that was when I was a lefty. With my eyes and my old bad left hand, I had to switch to right handed bows. I still shoot fingers and I still shoot long shaft arrows off of an old pronged rest. The arrows I discarded from last year are still good but I'll likely never use them again. This is the first year I'll be using 3" plastic vanes. For YEARS I have used 5" loose plastic or turkey feathers (all white) so that I could see the arrow fly at dusk and so that I could see the type of blood from the pass-thru. This year, my colors are bright yellow and one white with NO cresented shafts in white (as I've always done). Times, they are a changin'.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Just got back from 2 hours of good shooting. No bets were made and I was feeling generous so didn't bring it up. I did my usual shooting with the exception that near the end my arm was tired and my accuracy fell off. I made the mistake of only taking my heavy Tom Cole longbow! My Lofton is almost 20 pounds lighter. Damn sure wish I had taken it instead. My shoulder tomorrow morning gonna' tell me about it too. :laugh: Still have company here so your other posts will be addressed later amigo. -Tyr

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

TYR, I know you are doing all of that in good nature (as I am) but I also see it as a good topic for the Bow Season thread. I should have simply made it a Guns, Bows and good ole boy thread instead. Everything GOOD about the great outdoors is open for discussion but my main passion happens to be bow hunting.

Since you mentioned GUNS and reeling in the fish.....how do you fair in LONG distance shooting? I assume that you are MUCH better with pistols and at close range because pistols are not my strong suit BUT, I could probably be your huckaberry if I were to bring my rifle out of retirement. We load our own military powder (when we could get it) and did quit a lot of shooting back in the day. In fact, remind me and I'd love to invite you and Justin to our Men's (father & son) day of shooting come May. We pitch washers, horse shoes, shoot shotguns, rifles, pistols......everything but bows but I'd bring mine if you wanted to show folks your bows. I imagine they'd be as much the talk of the party as some of my friends $10,000.oo PLUS shotguns. I can't imagine spending over $2,000 for a rifle but THAT for a shotgun!!!!! Get outta here! I used to wheel and deal in guns , made a nice profit on every gun I bought then resold. Only once back then did I ever pay over a thousand bucks and it was for a pair of matching Colt revolvers that had the best engraving on pistols that I've ever seen. Paid the guy 1100 bucks, sold 'em two years later for 1600. I never shot them because the guy I bought 'em from had never shot them and the guy I sold 'em too swore he never would. Price kept going up for mint condition unfired weapons. Hell, they are likely worth 4 or 5 grand now if not more. Long distance shooting I am pretty good at although never really practiced much for shots longer than 300 yards but that was without scopes. Most of my practice with rifle , pistol and shotgun was at normal ranges , typical of hunting. As a kid I could go into the woods with adults that all had nice 12 gauge shotguns while I had an old single shot 22 caliber rifle. We all come out of the woods back to the truck and just about every time I had the greatest number of squirrels. Hell, these days if you talk about squirrel hunting with a single shot 22 caliber rifle the young guys look at you like you just came from Mars! Most never even shot a 22 caliber rifle having been bought shotguns as their first guns. I'd never do that to a kid. First real gun should always be a 22 caliber rifle so as to hone their accuracy in shooting. -Tyr

[red state]

Sorry for the late reply....just got back from your neck of the woods....had a great burger at Firebirds and then the flourless brownie at BoneFish. Up really too late for going hunting in the morning.....but we'll see. I shot really well at 40 yards today but was pulling to the left with the practice tip. I most ALWAYS shoot a broadhead and almost NEVER a practice tip but It was muddy today and I shoot at a small floating (sometimes rocking) target that is dangled from a sting (which the arrow always penetrates my pond levee whether I'm dead on or not. Just didn't want to get my broadheads all muddy and it was good to see that my practice tip shoots a hair to the left while my broadheads tend to shoot just a bit to the right. I know....I know, I have some adjusting to do but it is so irrelevant as to the "kill zone" that I'll leave it be (for now).

I agree entirely.....I also squirrel hunted with a 22 and refused to do anything but HEAD shots. My dog would tree them (had a very nice, high priced dog that I trained) and I often times didn't even need a gun cuz of how fast that blame dog was. It took quite a lot of breaking to get that dog to settle down. My grandpa had one of the best but he had to get rid of him because he could never break him of going from dead squirrel to the next squirrel in the next hollow. He simply wore my pa out. HA!!! We have a few good dogs now but nothing like the ones we had back when. My dad had some of the BEST beagles in the country (if not the world) and folks as far as Florida to the South East and NJ to the North East. If I'm not mistaken, Idaho was also in the mix to buy dad's bloodline or mix their bloodline to ours. At one time, dad had well over 50 beagles! We never got into squirrel hunting dogs but dad had MANY trophies (over 100) that his dogs won. Dad always had a green thumb, an eye for hunting dogs and a steady trigger finger for long distance shots. The furthest I've ever taken a deer was at 420+ yards and that is a long distance for the SOUTH and for two bucks fighting over ONE doe's attention. I took the bigger buck and he was certainly busy trying to run the other buck off. In the process, he was keeping me extremely busy in getting everything just right before squeezing off a round...or two....or three. HA!!! Yeah, I missed the first two shots but nailed him clean on the third. I even have that long distance bullet. It almost went completely through him and when I rolled him over to see the exit wound.....saw only a tumor-looking protrusion. When I touched it with my knife, the bullet popped put. I mounted the mushroomed lead with the buck's antlers.....as well as some dice. HA!!!

As for the pistols....I wouldn't want to shoot them or the high priced shotguns that some of my friends shoot BUT they shoot those $10,000.oo guns all the time. One friend (from Texas originally) shoots two. One is a composite OLYMPIC looking gun with high-teck everything (including those custom cheek rests that are micro tunable and the other is a gorgeous hunting looking gun with gold trigger and beautiful engravings. My Browning is beautiful but it is only a $700 to $1,000 dollar 12 gauge that I turkey hunt with. It has two loping bucks on one side and two tom turkeys engraved on the other side. the shells come out the bottom (as all shells should). I simply can't see paying 10grand for a gun of any type but I'm sure there are those who think we are KraZy for spending the money we spend on "regular" guns. My rifle is an expensive firearm with a scope that costs as much as some guns do. That glass can be as expensive as diamonds in some cases but a good glass is a good thing to have. HA!!! I've never liked ANY firearm without a scope. Even my turkey gun has a scope. It comes off when skeet shooting and such but for hunting....I always want the best that allows for little mistakes. I believe I and the game I hunt deserve a good clean kill.

Well, time to hit the hay....may even go out in my short pants and flip flops int he morning....supposed to be in the mid to upper 80's and that is too hot to be walking around in camo. HA!!!

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Sorry for the late reply....just got back from your neck of the woods....had a great burger at Firebirds and then the flourless brownie at BoneFish. Up really too late for going hunting in the morning.....but we'll see. I shot really well at 40 yards today but was pulling to the left with the practice tip. I most ALWAYS shoot a broadhead and almost NEVER a practice tip but It was muddy today and I shoot at a small floating (sometimes rocking) target that is dangled from a sting (which the arrow always penetrates my pond levee whether I'm dead on or not. Just didn't want to get my broadheads all muddy and it was good to see that my practice tip shoots a hair to the left while my broadheads tend to shoot just a bit to the right. I know....I know, I have some adjusting to do but it is so irrelevant as to the "kill zone" that I'll leave it be (for now).

I agree entirely.....I also squirrel hunted with a 22 and refused to do anything but HEAD shots. My dog would tree them (had a very nice, high priced dog that I trained) and I often times didn't even need a gun cuz of how fast that blame dog was. It took quite a lot of breaking to get that dog to settle down. My grandpa had one of the best but he had to get rid of him because he could never break him of going from dead squirrel to the next squirrel in the next hollow. He simply wore my pa out. HA!!! We have a few good dogs now but nothing like the ones we had back when. My dad had some of the BEST beagles in the country (if not the world) and folks as far as Florida to the South East and NJ to the North East. If I'm not mistaken, Idaho was also in the mix to buy dad's bloodline or mix their bloodline to ours. At one time, dad had well over 50 beagles! We never got into squirrel hunting dogs but dad had MANY trophies (over 100) that his dogs won. Dad always had a green thumb, an eye for hunting dogs and a steady trigger finger for long distance shots. The furthest I've ever taken a deer was at 420+ yards and that is a long distance for the SOUTH and for two bucks fighting over ONE doe's attention. I took the bigger buck and he was certainly busy trying to run the other buck off. In the process, he was keeping me extremely busy in getting everything just right before squeezing off a round...or two....or three. HA!!! Yeah, I missed the first two shots but nailed him clean on the third. I even have that long distance bullet. It almost went completely through him and when I rolled him over to see the exit wound.....saw only a tumor-looking protrusion. When I touched it with my knife, the bullet popped put. I mounted the mushroomed lead with the buck's antlers.....as well as some dice. HA!!!

As for the pistols....I wouldn't want to shoot them or the high priced shotguns that some of my friends shoot BUT they shoot those $10,000.oo guns all the time. One friend (from Texas originally) shoots two. One is a composite OLYMPIC looking gun with high-teck everything (including those custom cheek rests that are micro tunable and the other is a gorgeous hunting looking gun with gold trigger and beautiful engravings. My Browning is beautiful but it is only a $700 to $1,000 dollar 12 gauge that I turkey hunt with. It has two loping bucks on one side and two tom turkeys engraved on the other side. the shells come out the bottom (as all shells should). I simply can't see paying 10grand for a gun of any type but I'm sure there are those who think we are KraZy for spending the money we spend on "regular" guns. My rifle is an expensive firearm with a scope that costs as much as some guns do. That glass can be as expensive as diamonds in some cases but a good glass is a good thing to have. HA!!! I've never liked ANY firearm without a scope. Even my turkey gun has a scope. It comes off when skeet shooting and such but for hunting....I always want the best that allows for little mistakes. I believe I and the game I hunt deserve a good clean kill.

Well, time to hit the hay....may even go out in my short pants and flip flops int he morning....supposed to be in the mid to upper 80's and that is too hot to be walking around in camo. HA!!! I only practice using the broad heads the last two weeks just before season starts. Always shoot a bit different than the field points do. Kinda boring shooting deer with a rifle ,no sport in at all for me. Just far too easy. With a bow its not easy. Makes it a challenge. I was once hunting on the ground and got two shots at a big buck. Shot over the buck both times! Even with my aiming lower the second shot my arrow went right over but seemed to nick his fur the second time. Man that sucker took off like a scalded dog. I was shooting my heavy bow and only found one arrow. The other stayed in the woods unless I hit the buck and didn't see it but I could find no sign of blood , was starting to get dark so cut short my arrow finding mission. I had put a new string on that bow the day before and found I had misjudged setting the nock points on the string. Reset them and the high shooting stopped. Dogs, my brother had some of the best rabbit hunting dogs I've ever seen. All beagles except Queenie the very best dog was a daschound mix, half beagle /half daschound. Queenie never lost the trail. Always listened for her yelp even when the other dogs were coming from another direction, the rabbit would always be just in front of Queenie. I hadnt hunted with my brother for about 5 years and his good friend Rex started rabbit hunting with him . Third hunt out Rex shoot Queenie instead of the rabbit . SEEMS QUEENIE WAS ONLY ABOUT 3 OR 4 FEET BEHIND THE RABBIT EMERGING INTO THE CLEARING AND REX NEVER WAS A GREAT SHOT. My brother dearly loved that dog, took it real, real hard. Sold his other dogs and never rabbit hunted again. That was about 14 years ago. Never hunted with Rex again either. -Tyr

[red state]

Don't mean to be rude or anything but the markings of a really good dog is for one to allow the hunters time to read the situation and prepare for it. A fast dog is so hard to keep up with or anticipate how the rabbit will act or react. Our dogs were usually 3 to 5 minutes "slow" or behind the dog. My son has one now (a mix breed of blue heeler / beagle) that catches many rabbit and squirrel year round. She could definitely make it out in the wild but isn't the best for what one would consider a hunting dog or [trial rabbit dog]. But to each his own cuz my son loves lil' Trixie. He also had a beautiful saddle back Beagle and after I finally broke her and trained her, she turned out to be a very good dog. She was a bit slow (too slow for my taste) but she really showed a bunch of SMART@$$ boys around Wolf River one day. We were all out hunting and they laughed at how she'd still be hunting a rabbit that their dogs had ran, they had shot, cleaned and cooked before ole YellowBelle would come through but that backfired on them cuz each time their dogs lost the trail, good ole Yellowbelle would slow and steadily show them the err of their ways. HA!!!! I didn't like her being so slow but I ate it up with a spoon that day. HA!!!! I accidentally ran over her while backing out of the garage one day going back to work at lunch. I hated it but I had no idea she was there OR that she couldn't/wouldn't have moved in time.

As for practicing with practice tips and my own hunting story (that I caught on video for whenever I'm able to figure all that out), I rarely (if ever) shoot practice tips but most of the time, they shoot just like my broadheads (IF) my rest and everything is set right. If they shoot differently, it usually means the rest needs minor adjustments. Mine needs a micro move to the right on one of my bows because the practice tips shoots a good bit to the right and slightly lower than the broadheads (I shoot those big, wide Walmart specials for $7 or $8 three pack). The best they make is the WASP but they're high and my black Walmart specials do just fine. I also shoot Thunderheads and the traditional broadheads from years ago. I don't like the old, traditional archer broadheads cuz they loose their sharpness here in our humidity. They fly better than almost anything on the market but I truly don't like having to check them and fear using one someday that was not sharp enough to cut an artery. I absolutely HATE my son's retractable heads cuz they are the devil to sharpen and you have to worry with the rubber collars and such.......just not for me but I'm always the one who gets stuck servicing my son's bow and arrows!!!!

Now for the hunting story of the day (since TYR has made the thread interesting). I took my wife's nephew hunting and although it was rifle season, had given up rifle hunting because I enjoyed archery so much and I had actually had a really good year in video taping my hunts. Well, when Jeremy (then a 15 year old.....now a police officer and Iraq Army Vet) asked what he could shoot, I told him that he could shoot anything if he carried his bow but could only shoot a Wall Hanger if he carried his rifle. Since he knew my hunting ground as a good source for Wall Hanger quality deer, he decided to take his rifle......big mistake. He saw over 30 deer in different herds that morning but NONE were worthy of his or my wall so he could shoot. I, on the other hand, saw only 15 - 20 deer and one group of 7 had one out-of-place doe so I opted for her. I saw them in plenty of time on this cold and barren morning and switched my head cam on to watch them approach. They came exactly where I knew they would and the camera caught my bow limbs bending until I released. The white 5" fletched 31" arrow with at least 8" of shaft in white was very easy to see fly till it hit the doe square in the back. My shot was perfect from side to side but the heigth of the stand (40'....which is way too high) plus the doe being a tad further than they normally travel goofed my shot up. This kept the other deer from crossing the lane and when they ran off, I knew the loner would probably double back and walk exactly like she had just done so I was more prepared to correct the mistakes I had just made seconds ago. I had immediately pulled another arrow (which is a second nature trait with me in bow fishing and it is a great practice for when or IF one ever hunts dangerous game) but I did it because I KNEW I'd probably get another chance. Sure enough, with camera rollling, she makes her second mistake and I bust her in the front shoulder. I was a bit off because of the adrenaline and such but I was able to swing the camera and follow her as she went only 50 yards in the beautiful timber that had no leaves and was glistening in frost. My wife's nephew walked up on me as I was getting down and I filmed him tracking the deer till he almost stumbled over her. It was funny because I had time to have hid her a bit before he came and before I was through hunting. Back then, I used KOLPIN four bladed twisters (95 gr) and those make HUGE holes and fantastic blood trails.......too bad they stopped making them. When we studied the deer, we noticed that the broadhead was a wreck cuz I had totally destroyed that bone where the shoulder blade and upper leg meet. This also destroyed the arrow along with the broadhead. Speaking of KOLPIN twisters; because they had quite selling them and because I liked them so much, I killed my first deer with a tin can but that'll have to wait for another post and after there has been any interest in hearing about it. I don't wish to hog the thread and GOD forbid I bore anyone.

Thanks for the story TYR, this is EXACTLY why I opened this thread and my invitation still stands on any story (gun or bow) that anyone wishes to share. It just happens to be BOW SEASON right now but that doesn't mean we aren't interested in hearing any hunting story.

[red state]

I only practice using the broad heads the last two weeks just before season starts. Always shoot a bit different than the field points do. -Tyr

TYR, this is the only reason that I like my son's retractable broadheads.....they ARE practice tips till they hit something. Still, I'm extremely happy with my fixed blades. By the way, I may sell David's recurve......he isn't man enough (or dedicated enough) to use it or keep it. He hated to tell me but he said that he probably won't use it cuz he can't shoot it well enough past 20 yards. He can practically strike a match at 70+ yards with his PSE electric blue tournament bow and his ProLine hunting bow but he hasn't the patience or strength to practice enough to get good at longer distances. Heck, I'd love to use it if it wasn't a lefty but with my old crippled left (release hand) there's no way I can smoothly release ANY bow....much less a 60+ pound bow with ZERO let-off. Maybe I can Ebay it and buy one just like it (only right handed).

My son does use fixed blades on his tournament bow cuz it is sited in with 75 gr and we haven't found any 75 gr retractable/expandable broadheads. In fact, I'm going to Ebay right now to see if anyone has any KOLPIN four bladed TWISTERS. I shoot 125 for maximum penatration but those 95 grain TWISTERS would be worth re-setting my bow to. They do a LOT of damage because the four blades are really like eight. The canted/twisted blade placement causes the four blades to twist at a half turn and this action actually persist (to some degree) as it goes through the animal. What a hole! What a blood trail!!! I miss them!

[red state]

OK....found three possibilities for the Kolpin broadheads on EBAY. Not exactly what i was hoping for, however.

Oh yes.....I almost forgot (AGAIN). On my hunting story above....when we were inspecting the deer, there was a distinct cut that was 7 inches long along the top of the deer's back and the hide had stretched open about 3 inches down to clean, un-bloodied meat. I suppose the broadhead was so sharp that it had cut the hide as a doctor would without cutting the meat at all. Amazing! The deer probably thought it had happened upon a swarm of yellow jackets (which is probably the case in most circumstances having to do with the arrow impacting a deer). This is especially true (IF) the arrow has passed cleanly through the deer without touching any of the bones. Very humane way to hunt. A bow kills by cutting and a gun (for the most part) kills by SHOCK of the devastating impact.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

TYR, this is the only reason that I like my son's retractable broadheads.....they ARE practice tips till they hit something. Still, I'm extremely happy with my fixed blades. By the way, I may sell David's recurve......he isn't man enough (or dedicated enough) to use it or keep it. He hated to tell me but he said that he probably won't use it cuz he can't shoot it well enough past 20 yards. He can practically strike a match at 70+ yards with his PSE electric blue tournament bow and his ProLine hunting bow but he hasn't the patience or strength to practice enough to get good at longer distances. Heck, I'd love to use it if it wasn't a lefty but with my old crippled left (release hand) there's no way I can smoothly release ANY bow....much less a 60+ pound bow with ZERO let-off. Maybe I can Ebay it and buy one just like it (only right handed).

My son does use fixed blades on his tournament bow cuz it is sited in with 75 gr and we haven't found any 75 gr retractable/expandable broadheads. In fact, I'm going to Ebay right now to see if anyone has any KOLPIN four bladed TWISTERS. I shoot 125 for maximum penatration but those 95 grain TWISTERS would be worth re-setting my bow to. They do a LOT of damage because the four blades are really like eight. The canted/twisted blade placement causes the four blades to twist at a half turn and this action actually persist (to some degree) as it goes through the animal. What a hole! What a blood trail!!! I miss them! I have only ever shot two blade on my arrows, nothing fancy and used Howard Hill broad heads except for a couple years that I used Fred Bear broad heads. Bought a huge supply back then and still have a half dozen that have never been used. Two blades all a man needs if he keeps them sharp. Just a simple guy that likes easy simple gear myself. My nephew used to shot all that fancy stuff. I told him go for it its your hunt not mine. The way I look at it if they are into archery more power to them ,which ever way they chose to do it. -Tyr

[logroller]

I only practice using the broad heads the last two weeks just before season starts. Always shoot a bit different than the field points do. Kinda boring shooting deer with a rifle ,no sport in at all for me. Just far too easy. With a bow its not easy. Makes it a challenge. I was once hunting on the ground and got two shots at a big buck. Shot over the buck both times! Even with my aiming lower the second shot my arrow went right over but seemed to nick his fur the second time. Man that sucker took off like a scalded dog. I was shooting my heavy bow and only found one arrow. The other stayed in the woods unless I hit the buck and didn't see it but I could find no sign of blood , was starting to get dark so cut short my arrow finding mission. I had put a new string on that bow the day before and found I had misjudged setting the nock points on the string. Reset them and the high shooting stopped. Dogs, my brother had some of the best rabbit hunting dogs I've ever seen. All beagles except Queenie the very best dog was a daschound mix, half beagle /half daschound. Queenie never lost the trail. Always listened for her yelp even when the other dogs were coming from another direction, the rabbit would always be just in front of Queenie. I hadnt hunted with my brother for about 5 years and his good friend Rex started rabbit hunting with him . Third hunt out Rex shoot Queenie instead of the rabbit . SEEMS QUEENIE WAS ONLY ABOUT 3 OR 4 FEET BEHIND THE RABBIT EMERGING INTO THE CLEARING AND REX NEVER WAS A GREAT SHOT. My brother dearly loved that dog, took it real, real hard. Sold his other dogs and never rabbit hunted again. That was about 14 years ago. Never hunted with Rex again either. -Tyr
That is a tragic story tyr. I'm sad now.

[red state]

I have only ever shot two blade on my arrows, nothing fancy and used Howard Hill broad heads except for a couple years that I used Fred Bear broad heads. Bought a huge supply back then and still have a half dozen that have never been used. Two blades all a man needs if he keeps them sharp. Just a simple guy that likes easy simple gear myself. My nephew used to shot all that fancy stuff. I told him go for it its your hunt not mine. The way I look at it if they are into archery more power to them ,which ever way they chose to do it. -Tyr

Agreed on the simplicity factor but in a way, my son's expendables are having to do with simplicity in the truest form (except for when it comes to resharpinging them.....but, as I've said, I only like my three blade fixed heads when it comes to easy sharpening). The old traditional heads dull quickly and are not as easy to sharpen as mine are. I say this about David's expandable/switch blade heads because he can set his sites for 3D archery tournaments YET also be SPOT ON for when it comes time to screw on hunting heads. Simple....no worries and can swapped out, with confidence, shoot EXACTLY as he does with practice tips (without worry of dulling or losing a hunting head by practicing with it) so this seems to be a win win.

I can shoot either traditional or modern, in any way (whether finger or aid) with any type of broad head (even home made kinds using tin can tops (peach cans seem to do best). HA!!! I believe I've told you that story before but because the KOLPIN twisters were out of business, I had to do something after breaking a few blades so I shot some home made blades and although they would damage after a few rounds of shooting, they did fly extremely well and were easy to sharpen. Heck, even a plain ole tin can can cut ya so it seemed to be fine to try. Well, on one particular evening after work, I tried one. A single old doe came within 15 yards so I let one fly. I was a bit worried that it may not work BUT after hearing her burn through the brush and hearing a LOUD crash, I knew it worked. She had gone 75 yards (the average run that my deer go after being shot) and she was going down hill all the way and had just made it across the creek that came from my bass lake. I've not used a tin can again but it is a cheap alternative to buying more blades when that time comes. If I ever start my traditional career of hunting (with bows I've made) I'll most assuredly make my own broad heads. That, my friend, is going all out in being traditional.

Seriously though, we should either make our own stuff or be happy with those who only wish to be the best they can in providing food and taking an animal down cleanly. I can and do appreciate those who shoot traditional and, in a way, I too am a traditionalist. I have used the very heads you mentioned and still have some Fred Bear specials in their original package. I hate to use them out of sentimental reasons so I opened one pack and saved the other. I have also used (and still have) the following hunting heads: Hill's Hornet (two blade) glue-on with modern glue-in twist-on inserts for carbon arrows. VINTAGE BEAR mentioned above....with two blades and two small razor blade inserts BUT (I just use the two blades as they fly better without the thin, smaller razor insert blades). I even have some single welded BOD~KIN four blades that fire true and are virtually indestructible. BY THE WAY, what do you have against carbon arrows? The wood ones that you use and the cedar ones that my son uses for his Samick Sage break easy and must be kept dry. The feathers go bad quickly whereas carbon arrows are VERY true flying arrows and are extremely tough. I've used aluminum but they also bend and break fairly easily. I've reused ONE carbon arrow for killing many deer cuz they are so tough and although I like turkey feathers, they truly can't compete with the plastic vanes for accuracy and endurance under ALL weather (wind, rain, sleet). I HATE turkey feathers for when it's raining and don't dare let it rain and then go cold quickly cuz that makes them freeze and unshootable. Plastic vanes can simply be thumped to knock the ice off and they dry in seconds. So, to me that is much more SIMPLE to use than the traditional wood ones with glue on nocks, glue on heads and delicate feathers that require much more work to "set" (if) your equipment needs minor adjustments or to keep from damage. I guess I'm being difficult because I wasn't able to go hunting this mornin' and with my daughter having another game tonight will not get to go tonight. HA!!! Still, I do have good argument to bring to the table and am only trying to keep this interesting.

Look forward to your reply.....AND, if you're able, HAPPY HUNTIN'

[red state]

http://www.politicalforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22860&d=1380894194&thumb=1 (http://www.politicalforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22860&d=1380894194)

Well, This young lady, one of my daughter's best friend, who goes to the same church as we do and lives just down the road got her a 7pt-r the other day!!! A few years ago, she bagged a really nice 19-20 inch spread 8 pt (I think) I don't have those photos any more but do remember it being a "shooter" in my book and that's a pretty good book. HA! Good job Marissa!!!!

[red state]

3 more months!!!! and I plan to take a deer with my home-made bows this Fall. Time to pluck the feathers from some of the turkey mounts I've taken and ready-up some arrows with Magnus two-bladed broadheads. I've recently lost one Magnus cuz I'm a bit new to the hot-melt glue. I suppose I wasn't liberal enough in distributing the stuff and one of my broadheads is now deep in the ground after finding a root. I once shot 3D but now all I shoot at is a small white coffee cup (suspended from a stick or string). Once upon a time, I had a dog that would fetch my arrows from the pond after shooting at small, floating objects. I did this so as never to dull a blade. The only problem was with the dog grabbing the fletching from time to time.

Tyr, I have that bow for Dustin but it is now dusty and I'm sure he'd be better off with one of my other ones. I have made many but I am partial to Juniper bows cuz I've not had one to blow up on me and they have a great deal of SNAP. I don't have any Boddock around here or else I'd make one from that type wood. I made a very (VERY) short bow for a neighbor a few weeks ago and I've asked him every Sunday if this 56" Juniper has exploded on him yet. He says it hasn't but continually brags about how it spits his carbon arrows. He plans to take several hogs and deer with it. As it is Juniper, it truly is a beautiful bow indeed. I made a 60+" Juniper bow for a friend who is 6'7" and a 32" draw. Now that was one gorgeous bow and I hated to part with it. I test shot it for well over 200+ shots. Had I not cut it down for tournament shooting, I would have loved to have kept it heavier for hunting (and for myself). It was smooth, comfortable and had plenty of riser for bow fishing, quivers and even site pins. I don't shoot all that now (hope you're proud, TYR) but I was really hitting consistently up to 25yds with that bow. I got a bit shakey at 30 & 35 and could randomly hit at 40+ yds but with more practice, the proper arrows and the proper poundage/draw for me......I'm certain I could have gotten really good with that extremely quiet bow.

At any rate, it is almost time to get all the dust off and get out in the heat, ticks and briars. I'm gonna hit the woods with MY bow, my arrows and possibly my broadheads that I've made (if I don't lazy-out and use the very dependable Magnus two-blades). I've killed a deer with my "tin-can" broadhead but it is so much easier to simply glue on the store-bought ones. HA!!!

Tyr, we're gonna have to get together some time and go stompin'.

[red state]

Oh....just to clarify; I'm long bow all the way none of my bows are recure (although a few have reflex tips). My son still has that Korean Samick Sage recurve and is quite good with it up to 30 yds BUT one simply can't beat the simplicity and smoothness of a reliable LONG BOW! So much more fun to shoot than compounds. Ya can't compete with the SPEED & accuracy of compounds but they are so blasted loud.

To Granny or anyone else here who shoots or to all those interested in picking archery up (like JEFF) put in your 2cents and we'll have a great topic.

[red state]

[QUOTE=red state;655296]Jeff, I've always told folks to not make the same mistakes that I've made over the many years of hunting (or, in general, bow hunting). One of these mistakes is to believe that you need some sort of a plantation or THOUSANDS of gov. land to hunt. This simply isn't true and if you have ONE acre in the right spot....you can do FAR better on that one acre than with thousands of mediocre acres. In fact,

As for laws in hunting FROM or around houses or other structures, we can get into legalities if you like. I don't agree with such things (unless you plan to hunt just 20 yards from your street light. HA! I know an ole redneck boy who brags about the deer around his house where they feed under the street light. He says he's killed many of them while they ate the acorns at night. I frown on such things and usually just listen to him. I knew that he'd eventually wear out his welcome.....and he did by killing the 15 to 20 or so deer that he once had coming to his house. Still, I don't agree with stupid laws and one of them is in what you have mentioned. If you have a house in the middle of nowhere and wish to take a deer (without going out in the weather) I'm all for it (if you take the deer honorably). I am also against laws that are unConstitutional (such as the NO LOADED GUN during deer season law). Many folks can't afford a pistol or simply don't like them and may have a rifle for self preservation. This idiotic law was made for "bad apples" and to make it easier for game officials to catch "bad apples". It is also another way to create "revenue" so I have no doubts about the unConstitutionality of this law. Another law that I can't stand is the "primitive weapon" law. In some States, it is highly illegal to take a crossbow during "primitive weapon" season......and even during the RIFLE SEASON. Some States have gotten better but most still "regulate" crossbows unfairly. I suspect this is so it would be easier for a game official to HEAR what one is doing and as we all know, a crossbow is a GREAT mid-range weapon with virtually NO sound. I prefer a bow but I also like a crossbow ever since I got one for my son (who was too young for a 45 or 50 cal muzzle-loader). I HATE muzzle loaders by the way....never could shoot one well enough to have confidence. This brings me to my next point about crossbow regulations. They highly regulate crossbows YET allow single shot, long distance RIFLES during primitive/so-called muzzle loader season and this is plain WRONG and highly STUPID. I know I have ranted on but, Jeff, you brought legality up so I wanted to deal with that. This thread is truly for anything that one would like to ask or share with others.

Jeff, you mentioned that you are a first time bow hunter so I'd suggest you ask yourself a few questions first:
One: How serious am I on this quest?
Two: What type bow would I enjoy more?
Three: What am I willing to invest?

My reply to question #1 would be in a bit of advice. If you do ANYTHING, do it to the best of your ability. This means getting a bow that you are comfortable with and practice, Practice, PRACTICE. Know you're limits in cost, time and ability. You don't have to get "the best" but you need to take it serious enough to avoid JUNK.
As for question #2, I'd suggest you try a few bows out (especially if you have friends who bowhunt already). If not, you can always talk with a dealer. Many will even allow you to shoot a few bows and let you be the judge. As for the types of bows, there are far too many to discuss at this point but you have two main catagories to consider: TRADITIONAL and Modern. Each have sub-catogories but you'll need to know if you want to hold a bow that man held long ago or use an item that may provide more benefits (and I do hate using the word benefits but that is exactly the case). With traditional bows such as recurve, long bow and a few others in between, you'll definitely need to practice more and get in shape more cuz the bow is part of you and relies ONLY on your strength, consintration and natural ability. You can equipt such bows with modern "xtras" but you'll still need to practice pulling it back and holding it steady with a mastery of the same, exact release each time. Otherwise, you need to forget about it. The better choice that renders more benefit with less amount of time or physical ability would be modern bows such as compounds. They can be simplified depending on "let-off" or doing without all the bells and whistles OR you can go all out and bolt just about everything imaginable to them with as high a "LET OFF" as 90%. Let-off is that amount that the bow will assist in holding at full draw and usually kicks in during the drawing process. I can shoot instinctively with ALL forms of archery or use the most advanced systems but I prefer a 60# Darton Excell at 65%-75% let-off for hunting or tournament shooting. I've taken many deer with this particular brand and videoed quite a bit of these hunts (including a nice, unusually beautiful 8pt with 6" brow tines). I've also taken many deer with a 55-60lbs Martin Lynx and a beautiful (but expensive) Martin Maverick at 90# with 80% let-off. I sold both because I prefer the simplicity, speed, smoothness and reliability of the DARTONS (made in Michigan I believe). Anyway, you've got a lot of research to do and little time to apply everything you need before mid-Sept or OCTOBER. As a general rule.....especially with your just now getting into this, I'd suggest a second hand bow on Ebay and practice at TWICE the distance that you're willing to actually make on a deer. You may get VERY good at 30 yds (for example) but a lot comes into play when a deer walks up....especially if that deer is a monster. HA!!! So, at 30yds of practice, I'd try for a 12-15 yard shot at a deer. In fact, most of my deer have been taken at 12 yards. As thick as it gets around here, I don't like those longer, "IFY" shots. Too much can happen and I'd rather play it safe and see or hear one go down (rather than spend all day or all night looking for an animal that was not shot within a perfect kill zone). If you plan to go the TYR route and use a two sticks and a string, I would like to say that I bought my son a Samich sage two Christmas's ago and it is a cheap, brand new bow that shoots surprisingly well....just don't get one with too much muscle because it'll take a great deal of muscle. HA! 45 pounds is PLENTY to kill a deer and if you've never shot before....you'll quickly feel that 45 pounds after practicing. HA!!!!

Anyway, thanks for posting....If I can help in any way, I'll certainly do so.

PS: below is a Samick Sage (South Korean Bow) Of course, Tyr has some OLDIES but GOODIES that cost 10 times what this brand new one costs.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/clubkidcarlos/rbow1.jpg[/QUOTE

I truly appreciate the advice because just like ya said ya walk into the sport store and they have a thousand different types of Bows and if ya aren't familiar with them they all look foreign to me, but I have a buddy down here that is into Bow hunting and has offered to let me try his bows like you he has high dollar and older ones and again like you he said ya need to shoot them to feel what is comfortable to me, he says all the time a $500 Bow may work well for one but the other guy may do better with the cheap one ( or a more expensive one ) so I guess I will head up to see him and see how they feel, again thanks for the advice and I will keep ya posted on my success or lack of


Jeff, did you ever find a good comfortable (AND CONSISTENT) bow? The season may have started in your area already and it starts this coming weekend here. I plan to use one of three bows that I've made. I have arrows that I've made but will probably strip my carbons down and put feathers one them from ole toms that I've killed. All three shoot really well and I've even been shooting 5" plastic vanes in them. Tyr can tell you that it is sometimes difficult to get an aluminum arrow (especially without actual feathers) to shoot well but these bows even shoot them off the shelf of the bow with grace and beauty. They are a bit weaker than I had originally planned to make but they are smooth to the draw and don't wear me out shooting them. I may actually place some old traditional heads that I've had for years and hunt the aluminum/plastic vane arrows since they're shooting so well. I put one of the three bladed [welded] broadheads from YESTERYEAR on one of my 2115 XX Eastons after our homecoming at church a while ago and it shot exceptionally well. Too hot to keep shooting so I stopped after 15 or 20 rounds. Inside to stay now. HA! No church tonight and I may grab a long nap after all that preachin', singing and GOOD, Good, good food!

The bow I like the most from the three I've built is the Juniper bow. It has the best snap to it and is just a tad higher in poundage. It isn't as smooth to achieve full draw but I can really hit with it. Gonna try and show my son out this coming weekend. He just bought a $1,000 PSE X-Force that is SUPER fast (one of the fastest bows I've EVER seen) and I got a bit angry with him. You see, I bought him that Samack Sage three Christmas' ago and he can hit very well with it but has yet to kill a deer with it and seems to have no intentions of using it (for now anyway). I may keep one or two of my compounds for old tyme sake but I am determined to kill my very first deer with a bow that MICHAEL made. I told my son that his is probably 50times faster than mine but mine is much smoother, a great deal stealthier and is MUCH easier to make. HA!!! I'd hate to have to try and build a bow like his.....the blame thing is half rifle. He can shoot LITERALLY the same pin at 40 yards!!! It is that flat! Almost seems unfair to the deer when you see him get half inch to an inch groups (consistently) at 70 yds.

Well, if you need any more info on a bow I'm here for ya. I still say that the Samick Sage is your best option. Pound for pound, I feel that they are one of the BEST bows out there. They're fast, quiet and fit within a 14" X 10" carry case which is fantastic for a biker such as yourself. They are a nice looking bow on top of that so spend the $130 - $150 bucks for one (with string, case and other stuff with this great deal/price).

Hope everyone who goes out this weekend with bow and arrow gets them some fine table fare for the family...nuthin' like fresh, home-made deer jerky for Monday Nite Football!!!!

[Elessar]

I have hunted with both bow and rifle - both of which I had to give up due to knee and back problems.

I firmly believe it takes far more skill to be even mildly successful with a bow than a firearm.

When I did hunt, I always 'still-hunted' - not having the patience to sit in a stand or blind for
hours on end.

[red state]

I have hunted with both bow and rifle - both of which I had to give up due to knee and back problems.

I firmly believe it takes far more skill to be even mildly successful with a bow than a firearm.

When I did hunt, I always 'still-hunted' - not having the patience to sit in a stand or blind for
hours on end.

You are correct on all counts.....and WELCOME to Debate Policy. You may be an old member coming back or a new one but since I'm not familiar with you, I wanted to reach out and wish you the best. Anyway, I find it hard to sit or stand for very long but our deer around here are so heavily hunted and "educated" it makes it almost impossible to get a shot off while slipping. I've done it, mind you, but it is a rare thing (and I'm a darn good injun sneak). I now hunt only with bows that I've made and haven't hunted with a rifle in YEARS (possibly 7 or more). There is a joy I get in crafting my own bow and actually hunting with it. Haven't killed a deer with traditional equipment yet but I have killed a few other things (including stumps). HA!! I'm looking for some good Bodock wood (THE BEST) but have found that Dogwood, Juniper, Red Heart Elm and Huckaberry make GREAT bows....and they are less trouble than Bodock (which usually requires a deep cutting down of outside layers). Huckaberry is VERY dense, tough, plyable and rot resistant but they are hard to find for a solid, one-piece bow. They work great if making a takedown. In fact, I found one a few weeks ago that I plan to hunt with next year. it is 14 hands of limb + two hands of riser, very straight and even has natural deflex in addition to both limbs recurving 6 inches at the tips. It should make a great bow but I'll have to be careful while building it. You can eat the fruit off of 'Huckleberry' and I personally find them tasty.

Truthfully, I haven't been hunting much at all this year. I don't know if it is a turning of the page or if I've simply not made as much an effort. I do know that much of it has to do with my son not hunting much.

Well, I hope you can get your back and knee problems sorted out so you can get back out in the woods. At one time of my life, I was fairly big on shooting deer with a video camera while scouting.....this may be something to consider.

Kind regards,

~RED