What's the difference?

[jimnyc]

Between terrorists and those who support them? Will they be as successful without the support and blind eyes? Would they be as successful without those who "understand" why they do what they do, and then look the other way? Would they still be around if the community around them stood up and said NO MORE and lashed back at them? If you know they are murderers and terrorists, then what's the difference between that, and knowing a local guy shot and killed someone and you look away and refuse to speak up about what you witnessed?

Turning a blind eye, understanding them, not working against them, giving them moral support, not fighting against them - you might as well be one of them, as you're only propping them up and helping them.

[jafar00]

Between terrorists and those who support them? Will they be as successful without the support and blind eyes? Would they be as successful without those who "understand" why they do what they do, and then look the other way? Would they still be around if the community around them stood up and said NO MORE and lashed back at them? If you know they are murderers and terrorists, then what's the difference between that, and knowing a local guy shot and killed someone and you look away and refuse to speak up about what you witnessed?

Turning a blind eye, understanding them, not working against them, giving them moral support, not fighting against them - you might as well be one of them, as you're only propping them up and helping them.

If you would be so kind as to let me know what a terrorist looks like, I would be happy to turn them over to the authorities. I have yet to knowingly meet one let alone know someone is a terrorist as I walk past them in the street.

[Jeff]

If you would be so kind as to let me know what a terrorist looks like, I would be happy to turn them over to the authorities. I have yet to knowingly meet one let alone know someone is a terrorist as I walk past them in the street.

After seeing the scripture from the Koran and listening to you a terrorist looks like a guy with a towel on his head a beard and is always talking out both sides of his mouth

[Kathianne]

What is of concern regarding 'support' is not so much that 'most Muslims are terrorists,' rather that those that profess to 'condemn' terrorists, overwhelming 'understand' their motivations. This gives justification to the terrorists, and considering the numbers, speaks to what is preached in too many mosques. Here are a few, I'm sure there's more:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/14/opinion/main1893879.shtml&date=2011-04-06

http://www.people-press.org/2004/03/16/a-year-after-iraq-war/

http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/pdf/feb09/STARTII_Feb09_rpt.pdf

http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/pdf/feb09/STARTII_Feb09_rpt.pdf

[tailfins]

If you would be so kind as to let me know what a terrorist looks like, I would be happy to turn them over to the authorities. I have yet to knowingly meet one let alone know someone is a terrorist as I walk past them in the street.

They have shifty eyes.

[Larrymc]

Between terrorists and those who support them? Will they be as successful without the support and blind eyes? Would they be as successful without those who "understand" why they do what they do, and then look the other way? Would they still be around if the community around them stood up and said NO MORE and lashed back at them? If you know they are murderers and terrorists, then what's the difference between that, and knowing a local guy shot and killed someone and you look away and refuse to speak up about what you witnessed?

Turning a blind eye, understanding them, not working against them, giving them moral support, not fighting against them - you might as well be one of them, as you're only propping them up and helping them."Truth" Like or not

[jimnyc]

If you would be so kind as to let me know what a terrorist looks like, I would be happy to turn them over to the authorities. I have yet to knowingly meet one let alone know someone is a terrorist as I walk past them in the street.

Save it, I'd rather speak with the "men", those who can be honest, those who don't support known terror organizations and then tiptoe around the subject so they don't have to admit they support their murderous ways. You are officially now the ONLY person on my ignore list. I can't sit back and read posts and absolute bullshit and lies from someone who supports known terrorists.

[jimnyc]

They have shifty eyes.

Maybe I should have clarified KNOWN terrorists. What do they look like? Here's a few of the scummy animals:

Luckily this filthbag is dead, but still a hero to many:

http://imageshack.us/a/img22/2609/abif.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img708/740/24ds.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img5/493/r05z.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img138/1623/cz.jpg

I can post a shitload more of the known islamic animals if you care.

[Drummond]

If you would be so kind as to let me know what a terrorist looks like, I would be happy to turn them over to the authorities. I have yet to knowingly meet one let alone know someone is a terrorist as I walk past them in the street.

I'm absolutely with Jim where his arguments are concerned.

But, Jafar, I've a question for you (and surely an obvious one to ask ?).

You're saying you'd happily turn a terrorist over the authorities .. yes ?

Yet, you're also known on this forum as a Hamas supporter !

So tell us. If you passed a Hamas terrorist by in the street, would you, or would you NOT, turn that terrorist over to an authority which would neutralise its terrorism ??

Just think of the lives you may save in so doing, Jafar.

[Abbey Marie]

Between terrorists and those who support them? Will they be as successful without the support and blind eyes? Would they be as successful without those who "understand" why they do what they do, and then look the other way? Would they still be around if the community around them stood up and said NO MORE and lashed back at them? If you know they are murderers and terrorists, then what's the difference between that, and knowing a local guy shot and killed someone and you look away and refuse to speak up about what you witnessed?

Turning a blind eye, understanding them, not working against them, giving them moral support, not fighting against them - you might as well be one of them, as you're only propping them up and helping them.

:clap:

[Abbey Marie]

If you would be so kind as to let me know what a terrorist looks like, I would be happy to turn them over to the authorities. I have yet to knowingly meet one let alone know someone is a terrorist as I walk past them in the street.

One does not have to walk past them on the street to know who some of these terrorists are. The Internet is a wonderful place to obtain knowledge. BTW, how exactly would you act differently if you DID walk past one?

[aboutime]

Personally. I believe every man, woman, and child living in the United States today has seen what many, consider a terrorist. Someone who has terrorized an entire nation, and convinced large numbers of unknowing, uneducated people to become followers...
Much like those who followed this man, and still do. 5374
And today. This man is personally responsible for doing the same.5375
I fully expect many to deny it, or insist that I provide proof, or a link.
No need for any of that. You cannot be convinced you made a mistake. That would ruin your self-image.

[jafar00]

After seeing the scripture from the Koran and listening to you a terrorist looks like a guy with a towel on his head a beard and is always talking out both sides of his mouth

Are you calling me a terrorist?


They have shifty eyes.

:laugh:


I'm absolutely with Jim where his arguments are concerned.

But, Jafar, I've a question for you (and surely an obvious one to ask ?).

You're saying you'd happily turn a terrorist over the authorities .. yes ?

Yet, you're also known on this forum as a Hamas supporter !

So tell us. If you passed a Hamas terrorist by in the street, would you, or would you NOT, turn that terrorist over to an authority which would neutralise its terrorism ??

Just think of the lives you may save in so doing, Jafar.

What does a Hamas terrorist look like and do they leave Gaza?


One does not have to walk past them on the street to know who some of these terrorists are. The Internet is a wonderful place to obtain knowledge. BTW, how exactly would you act differently if you DID walk past one?

How do I know I did walk past one?

[aboutime]

Are you calling me a terrorist?



:laugh:



What does a Hamas terrorist look like and do they leave Gaza?



How do I know I did walk past one?

Sounds like you just nod, wink, and keep walking jafar. Based on everything you've tried to deny here.

[jimnyc]

Sounds like you just nod, wink, and keep walking jafar. Based on everything you've tried to deny here.

LOL, great, I put the TS on ignore and see the lies anyway! Oh well, he's going to support those who commit terror attacks whether I see his posts or not. At least I know I'm not voluntarily communicating with someone like that.

[Abbey Marie]

Are you calling me a terrorist?



:laugh:



What does a Hamas terrorist look like and do they leave Gaza?



How do I know I did walk past one?
Do you need to walk past one to do anything about terrorism?

[jimnyc]

Do you need to walk past one to do anything about terrorism?

For starters, anyone in the world can fight back against terrorism by simply condemning every last one of them. A half assed condemnation of some and support to another doesn't do jack shit, but tells a lot about a person. Calling terrorists true Muslims also speaks volumes.

[aboutime]

LOL, great, I put the TS on ignore and see the lies anyway! Oh well, he's going to support those who commit terror attacks whether I see his posts or not. At least I know I'm not voluntarily communicating with someone like that.

Agreed jim. But that's all part of their overall plan. They want us to get so angry, we ignore everything they do. Until it's too late. Then, as we see happening mostly in the U.K. They step in, make demands, and declare THEIR SHARIA LAW should be, and is...the Law of the land wherever they are.

Just like OBL, in many ways. He attacked us. Scared us, threatened us, murdered thousands with his proxies, then sat silent waiting for us to SURRENDER to our own Self-destruction. Which he knew we would eventually do.
Obama is nothing but a tool OBL needed to continue the destruction of America.
Most people forget, or are not aware. OBL attended American schools, and knew America better than most Americans living today know about America.
Without another SEPTEMBER 11TH, 2001. OBL, even as the Martyr he has become, somewhere in the Indian Ocean. OBL successfully, and intentionally caused WE THE PEOPLE....with the help of the OBAMA DIVIDER TACTICS, to become angry at one-another, and feel sorry for the terrorists who still intend to MURDER US.

The war game is right on schedule, just as OBL planned for it to happen.
SO. People like Jafar happily would dance on thousands, or millions of DEAD American bodies...all the while, pretending he cares?

[jafar00]

Do you need to walk past one to do anything about terrorism?

I'm not the police and thank God, I don't live in a country where terrorism is a problem. What do you suggest I do apart from countering all the nonsense I read in the forum where some of you spend an inordinate amount of time trying to justify terrorist acts without realising what you are doing?

[aboutime]

I'm not the police and thank God, I don't live in a country where terrorism is a problem. What do you suggest I do apart from countering all the nonsense I read in the forum where some of you spend an inordinate amount of time trying to justify terrorist acts without realising what you are doing?


Really, jafar? Terrorism is not a problem in Australia?

What planet did you just come from?

[jafar00]

Really, jafar? Terrorism is not a problem in Australia?

What planet did you just come from?

When was the last time there was a terrorist attack in Aus? We don't have a homeland security thing, TSA goons, a colour coded terror alert system, Patriot Act or any of the other nonsense you have to live with in the US.

[Drummond]

What does a Hamas terrorist look like and do they leave Gaza?

This is a total cop-out answer, Jafar. I asked you ...


If you passed a Hamas terrorist by in the street, would you, or would you NOT, turn that terrorist over to an authority which would neutralise its terrorism ??

Obviously, to take such an action, you'd have to know that the individual WAS, IS, a terrorist. My question presupposed that you'd have that knowledge.

So .. let's try this AGAIN, Jafar. What's your answer ? Would you turn that terrorist over to the authorities I had in mind, or, wouldn't you ?

By the way ... I'm obviously unsure about the typical movements of a Hamas terrorist. Reports have it that they prefer to fire rockets at Israel rather than leave Gaza. On occasions, they strap bombs to children and send THEM out of Gaza, instead. Indeed .. that may be one way you have of identifying Hamas terrorists, Jafar .. they'll be the ones preparing kids with bombs that those children have no way of removing.

Having said all that, well, I posted a report which suggests that Hamas terrorists are busily stirring up trouble outside of Gaza, anyway. They're branching out, helping other Jihadist groups.

.... TERRORISTS, I should say ...

Oh, and DO Hamas terrorists have 'shifty eyes' .. ?? I suppose it might depend on the terrorist. But my guess would be to say, probably not. Looking 'shifty' suggests the presence of a conscience. I have no reason to suppose that Muslim terrorists possess the humanity required for such a conscience to thrive.

[Drummond]

When was the last time there was a terrorist attack in Aus? We don't have a homeland security thing, TSA goons, a colour coded terror alert system, Patriot Act or any of the other nonsense you have to live with in the US.

Well now, Jafar. I'll leave the task of answering you to the Sydney Morning Herald (perhaps you've heard of it) ...

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/australia-still-has-tightknit-terrorist-community-says-expert-20130528-2n9mn.html


Australia still has a small but persistent jihadist community that is tight-knit and continues to pose a danger, a terrorism expert has said after the arrest of a young Sydney man on terrorism charges.

Shandon Harris-Hogan, from Monash University's global terrorism research centre said the existing extremist network tended to be linked to previous terrorism plots or investigations.

His comments came after Milad Bin Ahmad Shah al-Ahmadzai, 23, was charged with ''terrorism related offences'', and as national security dominated a furious debate in Canberra amid concerns of Chinese hacking and claims intelligence agencies are underfunded.

Mr Harris-Hogan, who has worked with police to compile a picture of Islamic extremism, said Australia's serious extremist network was ''not a massive group of people … but it is persistent''.

The article this is from is dated 29th May 2013.

Perhaps, Jafar, you think that Mr Harris-Hogan is just making it all up ? Care to accuse him of that ? After all, heyy, he needs to justify his salary ...

[aboutime]

Well now, Jafar. I'll leave the task of answering you to the Sydney Morning Herald (perhaps you've heard of it) ...

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/australia-still-has-tightknit-terrorist-community-says-expert-20130528-2n9mn.html



The article this is from is dated 29th May 2013.

Perhaps, Jafar, you think that Mr Harris-Hogan is just making it all up ? Care to accuse him of that ? After all, heyy, he needs to justify his salary ...


Sir Drummond. Of course. jafar will do everything he can to deny there is any kind of terrorist threat in Australia. Why would Inbred, Australian terrorists attack someone like jafar, or his family?
I do wonder if jafar flies the HAMAS flag 5380 at his front door to protect himself, and his family from those
INVISIBLE Terrorists he insists...do not exist???

[Drummond]

Sir Drummond. Of course. jafar will do everything he can to deny there is any kind of terrorist threat in Australia. Why would Inbred, Australian terrorists attack someone like jafar, or his family?
I do wonder if jafar flies the HAMAS flag 5380 at his front door to protect himself, and his family from those
INVISIBLE Terrorists he insists...do not exist???

He probably does fly that flag .. proudly, no doubt. Not so sure that he needs to 'protect' himself from his chums, though (invisible or otherwise) ...

... meanwhile, any other passing Australians who actually understand what the flag IS, probably pat themselves on the back for their 'enlightened tolerance'. Even after the next terrorist attack happens from 'friendly, peace loving terrorists' ....

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

He probably does fly that flag .. proudly, no doubt. Not so sure that he needs to 'protect' himself from his chums, though (invisible or otherwise) ...

... meanwhile, any other passing Australians who actually understand what the flag IS, probably pat themselves on the back for their 'enlightened tolerance'. Even after the next terrorist attack happens from 'friendly, peace loving terrorists' .... Hey, its just possible that Jafar is sincerely blinded and no more than one of the tens of millions that are that way within Islam. That does not mean he is totally innocent of any bias but he may truly believe he is doing God's will(Allah's will)!! I truly doubt he is hardcore radical but his support of Hamas indicates he is willing to overlook much and trust its Allah's will and Allah knows best. And that ladies and gentlemen is exactly how many, many millions of muslims feel as well. They will not condemn Jihad or ANY acts of Islamists against infidels no matter how brutal and murderous those acts may be. Such refusal in blind faith that murder is Allah's will is a product of the Koran and its many verses instructing to slay the infidel. Our American muslims are taught from the same Koran folks!! The same Koran!!!!!!! Let that sink in... They silently agree with Jihad and more and more of them are not so silent about it. They are already creating muslim strongholds that even our cops are forbidden to enter! Think about that and what it means! The fact that our Homeland Security ignores these muslim fortresses should give you people a clue how entrenched and influential the muslims are in our government already! AND ALL THAT SHOULD BE SCARING YOU PEOPLE ALMOST TO DEATH!!! YET IT DOESNT EVEN REGISTER EVEN AFTER YOU BEING TOLD. I'll tell you why that is.. Propaganda and conditioning. They go hand in hand and have been around for many decades. These muslims didn't just pop up here a few years ago. They have been working their agenda for well over 50 years here. Even if too stupid to think of yourselves you should still think of your kids and grandkids. For they are sure to reap the death and enslavement that you so foolishly allowed to be harvested upon them.. Go study Britain to see what is coming here. --Tyr

[Jeff]

Are you calling me a terrorist?



:laugh:



What does a Hamas terrorist look like and do they leave Gaza?



How do I know I did walk past one?

No jafar it was a joke and I meant no harm by it, honestly I don't know you well enough to kid like that so I apologize but honestly the Muslims that do work around here I have made friends with and I call them terrorist all the time they laugh it off knowing I am kidding so if you see me say something like that please let it go if I ever felt the need to be serious with you you will know it.

[Drummond]

Well now, Jafar. I'll leave the task of answering you to the Sydney Morning Herald (perhaps you've heard of it) ...

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/australia-still-has-tightknit-terrorist-community-says-expert-20130528-2n9mn.html



The article this is from is dated 29th May 2013.

Perhaps, Jafar, you think that Mr Harris-Hogan is just making it all up ? Care to accuse him of that ? After all, heyy, he needs to justify his salary ...

--- Jafar. Would you now care to acknowledge that Australia really DOES have its own terrorist problem ?

[jafar00]

--- Jafar. Would you now care to acknowledge that Australia really DOES have its own terrorist problem ?

The only terrorist problem we have is bikie gangs shooting at each other over drug dealing turf.

[tailfins]

Save it, I'd rather speak with the "men", those who can be honest, those who don't support known terror organizations and then tiptoe around the subject so they don't have to admit they support their murderous ways. You are officially now the ONLY person on my ignore list. I can't sit back and read posts and absolute bullshit and lies from someone who supports known terrorists.

I tend to agree with Jerry Falwell's idea that the threat was always there, but the hand of God protected us. Modern American society isn't interested in the hand of God, so he let us protect ourselves. How are we doing?

If you want to fight the consequences of sin, get out there and evangelize! You can order gospel tracts for 16 cents each at:

Chick Publications
P O Box 3500
Ontario Calif. 91761-1019
Telephone: 909 987-0771
Fax: 909 941-8128

Romans 3:10

King James Version (KJV)

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:


Romans 3:23


For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

John 8:7

King James Version (KJV)

7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

[Noir]

I tend to agree with Jerry Falwell's...

Well i'mA have to stop you right there xD
Falwell was half a step away from those westbrough baptist morons. The fact that he was invited on news stations and the like to tell people that it's the american citizens fault for 9/11 etc renders him among the lowliest type of scum. Tis sad to see folks openly agreeing with his message.

[jimnyc]

Well i'mA have to stop you right there xD
Falwell was half a step away from those westbrough baptist morons. The fact that he was invited on news stations and the like to tell people that it's the american citizens fault for 9/11 etc renders him among the lowliest type of scum. Tis sad to see folks openly agreeing with his message.

Would you like to read about Richard Dawkins take on Islam? Of course you do! (and he's spot on I might add)


Today is the first day of Eid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eid_al-Fitr), the end of the fasting month of Ramadan. I took the day off, as Eid on your own at work without family can be a rather bleak affair, and was surprised to find that when I logged on to Twitter (not a nice place over the past few days) there were lots of genuine Eid messages from non-Muslims and Muslim fasters, luxuriating in their first morning teas in a month. Even David Cameron's "Eid Mubarak" (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/eid-2013-david-cameron-wishes-muslims-around-the-world-eid-mubarak) registered quite low on my cynicism scale. I posted my own Eid greeting, and proceeded to bask in the unfamiliar good will of the morning.

Then Richard Dawkins, like a guest arriving too drunk to a polite and civil party, crashed into Eid. His tweet, apropos nothing at all, jarring with all the rest stated:

All the world's Muslims have fewer Nobel Prizes than Trinity College, Cambridge. They did great things in the Middle Ages, though.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/08/richard-dawkins-tweets-islam-muslim-nobel

And in the past:

Richard Dawkins says it outright. One wonders why so few other atheists are speaking out in the same way. Note that he does not hasten to qualify his comment by saying, "Islamic extremism" or "radical Islam." Dawkins: "I'm reasonably optimistic in America and Europe. I'm pessimistic about the Islamic world. I regard Islam as one of the great evils in the world, and I fear that we have a very difficult struggle there." Narrator: "Why is it more problematic than Christianity, for instance?" RD: "There is a belief that every word of the Koran is literally true, and there's a kind of closemindedness which is, I think, less present in the former Christendom, perhaps because we've had long - I don't know quite why - but there's more of a historical tradition of questioning. There are people in the Islamic world who simply say, 'Islam is right, and we are going to impose our will.' There's an asymmetry. I think in a way we are being too nice. I think that it's possible to be naively overoptimistic, and if you reach out to people who have absolutely no intention of reaching back to you, then you may be disillusioned."

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/LhYus6TiGEE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Noir]

Would you like to read about Richard Dawkins take on Islam? Of course you do! (and he's spot on I might add)

My post was about Falwell, not muslims. If all christians thought like falwell, we'd be having the same problem with christians as we do with muslims.

To put it another way - the religious are best when they don't take their beliefs too seriously.

[jimnyc]

My post was about Falwell, not muslims. If all christians thought like falwell, we'd be having the same problem with christians as we do with muslims.

To put it another way - the religious are best when they don't take their beliefs too seriously.

Oh, I know what your post was about. I was just pointing out that some see Dawkins and his latest comments as extreme too, although he is spot on and simply speaks the truth. Do you agree Dawkins?

[Noir]

Oh, I know what your post was about. I was just pointing out that some see Dawkins and his latest comments as extreme too, although he is spot on and simply speaks the truth. Do you agree Dawkins?

Dawkins is alright, but i think Hitchens and Harris put it much better most of the time when it comes to extremism.

[Abbey Marie]

Would you like to read about Richard Dawkins take on Islam? Of course you do! (and he's spot on I might add)



http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/08/richard-dawkins-tweets-islam-muslim-nobel

[/INDENT]And in the past:

Richard Dawkins says it outright. One wonders why so few other atheists are speaking out in the same way. Note that he does not hasten to qualify his comment by saying, "Islamic extremism" or "radical Islam." Dawkins: "I'm reasonably optimistic in America and Europe. I'm pessimistic about the Islamic world. I regard Islam as one of the great evils in the world, and I fear that we have a very difficult struggle there." Narrator: "Why is it more problematic than Christianity, for instance?" RD: "There is a belief that every word of the Koran is literally true, and there's a kind of closemindedness which is, I think, less present in the former Christendom, perhaps because we've had long - I don't know quite why - but there's more of a historical tradition of questioning. There are people in the Islamic world who simply say, 'Islam is right, and we are going to impose our will.' There's an asymmetry. I think in a way we are being too nice. I think that it's possible to be naively overoptimistic, and if you reach out to people who have absolutely no intention of reaching back to you, then you may be disillusioned."

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/LhYus6TiGEE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

My, my, an atheist who doesn't see Christianity as the greatest evil in the world. Never thought I'd see the day. GREAT find, Jim.

[Abbey Marie]

My post was about Falwell, not muslims. If all Christians thought like falwell, we'd be having the same problem with Christians as we do with Muslims.

To put it another way - the religious are best when they don't take their beliefs too seriously.

Not even close.

[jimnyc]

Dawkins is alright, but i think Hitchens and Harris put it much better most of the time when it comes to extremism.

You took the easy way out! Do you agree with his sentiments about Islam?

[jimnyc]

Not even close.

Agreed. When they allow an entire country to discriminate against women, cut off heads at will, drag bodies around, arrange marriages for their little kids, commit 21,000+ terror attacks in 12 years... Then they'll be remotely close to what Islam gives our world.

[Noir]

My, my, an atheist who doesn't see Christianity as the greatest evil in the world. Never thought I'd see the day. GREAT find, Jim.

You obviously don't read much atheist literature.

[Noir]

You took the easy way out! Do you agree with his sentiments about Islam?

Yes.

[aboutime]

You obviously don't read much atheist literature.


Noir. Why would anyone need to read atheist literature? If atheists do not believe in any God, Allah, or Supreme, Unseen Powers that create religions around the world. What need would there be to have Literature about Nothing?

If something doesn't exist. How can anyone say anything about something they claim...doesn't exist.

Kind of a useless tactic, isn't it?

Unless. Atheists need to remind themselves to insist something doesn't exist, in order to stay convinced it doesn't exist, which brings them full circle in talking about nothing, since it doesn't exist. And they have no idea what they are talking about in the Literature...which should, in all practicality...be EMPTY PAGES of literature.

NOTHING FROM NOTHING EQUALS NOTHING.....RIGHT?

[jafar00]

Agreed. When they allow an entire country to discriminate against women, cut off heads at will, drag bodies around, arrange marriages for their little kids, commit 21,000+ terror attacks in 12 years... Then they'll be remotely close to what Islam gives our world.

Hearing this ridiculous stuff you are ranting about lately, it reminds me of this idiot. You have no idea what you are talking about. Educate yourself!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_1SFf8t-ko

[Noir]

Noir. Why would anyone need to read atheist literature? If atheists do not believe in any God, Allah, or Supreme, Unseen Powers that create religions around the world. What need would there be to have Literature about Nothing?

If something doesn't exist. How can anyone say anything about something they claim...doesn't exist.

Kind of a useless tactic, isn't it?

Unless. Atheists need to remind themselves to insist something doesn't exist, in order to stay convinced it doesn't exist, which brings them full circle in talking about nothing, since it doesn't exist. And they have no idea what they are talking about in the Literature...which should, in all practicality...be EMPTY PAGES of literature.

NOTHING FROM NOTHING EQUALS NOTHING.....RIGHT?

Athiest authors such as Harris, Dennett, Hitchens, and Dawkins, have given some of the best critiques of Islam and the wider topic of dogmatism.

If you choose to ignore their works because they are atheist and therefore 'have nothing to say', fair enough.

[revelarts]

Between terrorists and those who support them? Will they be as successful without the support and blind eyes? Would they be as successful without those who "understand" why they do what they do, and then look the other way? Would they still be around if the community around them stood up and said NO MORE and lashed back at them? If you know they are murderers and terrorists, then what's the difference between that, and knowing a local guy shot and killed someone and you look away and refuse to speak up about what you witnessed?

Turning a blind eye, understanding them, not working against them, giving them moral support, not fighting against them - you might as well be one of them, as you're only propping them up and helping them.

I agree, however there is a grey area.
Some here have nearly advocated the wholesale deportation, and wholesale murder torture and death for "suspects". And attacking whole countries that MIGHT attack us, nuking whole countries, heck the whole m.e. where terrorist live (excpet for Saudia Arabia, but not because of oil).
Because the threat is so dire and horrible. Many UNDERSTAND the motives for any or all actions like that.
But when Muslims or Non Muslims who live in those countries "understand" why terrorist want to attack the U.S.. they are NO DIFFERENT than the terrorists? How many innocent tortured cousins and dead drone struck little girls in school does it take to understand SOME terrorist?
Might you understand revenge if your daughters school was bombed by a country that put paid puppets leaders in your capital that won't investigated or admit the bombing? other bogus twisted or legit Koran based motives aside.

pot calling the kettle black?

Speaking of blacks. what about all of the whites who stood by and watched Blacks lynched during the recent past. And those who KNEW family and friends in the KKK who burned down homes, killed and raped people. Threatened, harassed and beat people. Terrorized and destroyed the homes, businesses and property of blacks AND sympathetic whites.

Were/are they "just as bad" as those that did the deed. Many are still alive TODAY. should they be blamed and held accountable for their "understanding" , their compliance, and their silence?

It's hard to say what was going on in people hearts, I'd guess that many where not in agreement with the most violent tactics but were sympathetic to the GOALS of continued systematic legal and social oppression and marginalization of some Americans.
However they were not willing... out of cowardice or misplaced loyalties... to do or say anything to stop or bring to justice known murders, rapist, and criminals dedicated to the oppression of other Americans.


I'd Agree 100% it's very bad that more Muslims Don't OUT the crazy murderous so-called twisted Koran motivated terrorist types.
That the "real" Muslims aren't with the loudest voice and MOST earnest criminal measures putting pressure on those groups.


Be nice if we didn't supply Alqeada in Syria with Weapons too. and people in the U.S. would speak up about that to their congress people. And that we'd demand the Suadi Money supplies tracked down and prosecuted and not protected ..for whatever reason.
That we didn't allow/assist the Afghanistan to use drug money to supply terroist.
That we didn't PAY the Taliban and other terrorist Groups to NOT attack our supply lines.
that we didn't support SOME terrorist groups like Jundulla.
That the NATO Operation Gladio part b was investigated for it's terrorist connections
etc etc etc

I'm not saying that silent Muslims don't have any moral responsibility to speak to their own. I'm saying when we point the finger there are three pointing back.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I agree, however there is a grey area.
Some here have nearly advocated the wholesale deportation, and wholesale murder torture and death for "suspects". And attacking whole countries that MIGHT attack us, nuking whole countries, heck the whole m.e. where terrorist live (excpet for Saudia Arabia, but not because of oil).
Because the threat is so dire and horrible. Many UNDERSTAND the motives for any or all actions like that.
But when Muslims or Non Muslims who live in those countries "understand" why terrorist want to attack the U.S.. they are NO DIFFERENT than the terrorists? How many innocent tortured cousins and dead drone struck little girls in school does it take to understand SOME terrorist?
Might you understand revenge if your daughters school was bombed by a country that put paid puppets leaders in your capital that won't investigated or admit the bombing? other bogus twisted or legit Koran based motives aside.

pot calling the kettle black?

Speaking of blacks. what about all of the whites who stood by and watched Blacks lynched during the recent past. And those who KNEW family and friends in the KKK who burned down homes, killed and raped people. Threatened, harassed and beat people. Terrorized and destroyed the homes, businesses and property of blacks AND sympathetic whites.

Were/are they "just as bad" as those that did the deed. Many are still alive TODAY. should they be blamed and held accountable for their "understanding" , their compliance, and their silence?

It's hard to say what was going on in people hearts, I'd guess that many where not in agreement with the most violent tactics but were sympathetic to the GOALS of continued systematic legal and social oppression and marginalization of some Americans.
However they were not willing... out of cowardice or misplaced loyalties... to do or say anything to stop or bring to justice known murders, rapist, and criminals dedicated to the oppression of other Americans.


I'd Agree 100% it's very bad that more Muslims Don't OUT the crazy murderous so-called twisted Koran motivated terrorist types.
That the "real" Muslims aren't with the loudest voice and MOST earnest criminal measures putting pressure on those groups.


Be nice if we didn't supply Alqeada in Syria with Weapons too. and people in the U.S. would speak up about that to their congress people. And that we'd demand the Suadi Money supplies tracked down and prosecuted and not protected ..for whatever reason.
That we didn't allow/assist the Afghanistan to use drug money to supply terroist.
That we didn't PAY the Taliban and other terrorist Groups to NOT attack our supply lines.
that we didn't support SOME terrorist groups like Jundulla.
That the NATO Operation Gladio part b was investigated for it's terrorist connections
etc etc etc

I'm not saying that silent Muslims don't have any moral responsibility to speak to their own. I'm saying when we point the finger there are three pointing back. Rev. you don't get to justify bad behavior by citing bad behavior in the past. Islamists are so keen on murdering for even the slightest insult to the religion yet they claim these radicals are not doing what's right within the religion and then they just ignore it!! You see it's because they do not truly believe jihad is wrong they just say it to we ignorant Western infidels so as to further the lie that Islam is a religion of peace! I do not justify the KKK AND THOSE THAT SUPPORTED IT AND I NEVER HAVE. -Tyr

[Gaffer]

Rev there is only a grey area when you create a grey area. It's easy to point things out from the past and bring them up so you can say, see they did it too.

muslims become terrorist because the koran tells them too. It's that simple. Accidentally killing an innocent does create a terrorist it just justifies his determination. He was already of the mind set.

There was a strike against this country that killed 3000 people. That created a very formidable force of millions that were set against the fanatical islamics. They have continued their attacks over the last 12 years and we have struck back. We don't target the innocents like they do. We try to only kill the terrorists. We don't always succeed. Does that cause more terrorists. No, it just inspires those that support them to be more active. Do their killing of our innocents inspire us to slaughter people. No, we step up or operations to kill the terrorists.

It's not grey, it's black and white. Try putting yourself in the shoes of the people defending you for a change, get a different perspective. It's fine to think outside the box, but sometimes you got to go back in the box to for focus.

If you were concentrating on this administration and how corrupt it is I can go along with you. But you always condemn America as a whole. Saying "we" did this and that. Try putting the blame where it belongs, on the administration and their incompetence in running things, instead of America.

[revelarts]

If you were concentrating on this administration and how corrupt it is I can go along with you. But you always condemn America as a whole. Saying "we" did this and that. Try putting the blame where it belongs, on the administration and their incompetence in running things, instead of America.
from my post:
Be nice if we didn't supply Alqeada in Syria with Weapons too. and people in the U.S. would speak up about that to their congress people.

The We ther is Both dems and republicans -2 very Prominent republicans- and the Obama admin and a complacent (complicit?) American people.
is that specific enough?

And that we'd demand the Suadi Money supplies tracked down and prosecuted and not protected ..for whatever reason.
That started with the Bush administration, protecting the assests and flying saudias out the country on 9/11. also bypassing them in the 9/11 report and not following though on the money trails in various investigations.
Are they "protecting me" when they do that?

That we didn't allow/assist the Afghanistan to use drug money to supply terrorist.
Both Bush and Obama's Adimin. did that not America i suppose. But do i need to get into the hard core Drug dealing for safety box for that?

That we didn't PAY the Taliban and other terrorist Groups to NOT attack our supply lines.
Both Bush and Obama's Adimin
Are they "protecting me" when they do that?

that we didn't support SOME terrorist groups like Jundulla.
Am i suppose to get in to the some terrorist are GOOD terrorist box for that?

That the NATO Operation Gladio part b was investigated for it's terrorist connections
etc Both Bush and Obama admins have been part of the NATO actions there. so it's not America I suppose.

but it just seems the same as Jafar says.
It's not "real" Muslims.
It's not "America"

Why not parse the dark deeds as fine for Muslims as for America Gaffer?


Again I'm not Justifing ANY Killing I'm just pointing out the raw outrage against people who HAVE not done the deeds but UNDERSTAND it is not exactly the same.
AND American's have similar blood on there hands today.
do we get similar Outrage for that. How far in the past are those acts to be ignored or not brought up. 9/11 was over 10 years ago should we for get it? what about the holocaust, the Israels hunted those criminals down for 70 years. shouldn't they just forget and not bring it up anymore.

As far as the Muslims faith Justifing terror, I think it can and often does. But not always. But understanding the enemy does not mean you have to agree with them. I've point out in several post that those that have taken the the time to really look at the major terroist events have found that hte the Reasons for them are not primarily religious but political.

if you want to talk about women 's right etc sure that religion and culturally based oppression but the acts of terror and suicide bombing etc are not based there. the Former Head of the Bin Ladin Unit said it wasn't religion that was the primary issue. and in the in the book Dying to win...
wellhere's a product description of "Dying to win" from Amazon.

...
Suicide terrorism is rising around the world, but there is great confusion as to why. In this paradigm-shifting analysis, University of Chicago political scientist Robert Pape has collected groundbreaking evidence to explain the strategic, social, and individual factors responsible for this growing threat.

One of the world’s foremost authorities on the subject, Professor Pape has created the first comprehensive database of every suicide terrorist attack in the world from 1980 until today. With striking clarity and precision, Professor Pape uses this unprecedented research to debunk widely held misconceptions about the nature of suicide terrorism and provide a new lens that makes sense of the threat we face.

FACT: Suicide terrorism is not primarily a product of Islamic fundamentalism.

FACT: The world’s leading practitioners of suicide terrorism are the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka–a secular, Marxist-Leninist group drawn from Hindu families.

FACT: Ninety-five percent of suicide terrorist attacks occur as part of coherent campaigns organized by large militant organizations with significant public support.

FACT: Every suicide terrorist campaign has had a clear goal that is secular and political: to compel a modern democracy to withdraw military forces from the territory that the terrorists view as their homeland.

FACT: Al-Qaeda fits the above pattern. Although Saudi Arabia is not under American military occupation per se, one major objective of al-Qaeda is the expulsion of U.S. troops from the Persian Gulf region, and as a result there have been repeated attacks by terrorists loyal to Osama bin Laden against American troops in Saudi Arabia and the region as a whole.

FACT: Despite their rhetoric, democracies–including the United States–have routinely made concessions to suicide terrorists. Suicide terrorism is on the rise because terrorists have learned that it’s effective.

In this wide-ranging analysis, Professor Pape offers the essential tools to forecast when some groups are likely to resort to suicide terrorism and when they are not. He also provides the first comprehensive demographic profile of modern suicide terrorist attackers. With data from more than 460 such attackers–including the names of 333–we now know that these individuals are not mainly poor, desperate criminals or uneducated religious fanatics but are often well-educated, middle-class political activists.

More than simply advancing new theory and facts, these pages also answer key questions about the war on terror:

• Are we safer now than we were before September 11?
• Was the invasion of Iraq a good counter terrorist move?
• Is al-Qaeda stronger now than it was before September 11?

Professor Pape answers these questions with analysis grounded in fact, not politics, and recommends concrete ways for today’s states to fight and prevent terrorist attacks. Military options may disrupt terrorist operations in the short term, but a lasting solution to suicide terrorism will require a comprehensive, long-term approach–one that abandons visions of empire and relies on a combined strategy of vigorous homeland security, nation building in troubled states, and greater energy independence.

For both policy makers and the general public, Dying to Win transcends speculation with systematic scholarship, making it one of the most important political studies of recent time...

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/6BzF4to63W8?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

It's just kind of Jingoistic and propaganda to repeat that Islam is THE cause of terror.

As I've said MANY times. the terror threat from Islam is FAR less a problem than the cultural and population threat. Deerborne Michigan's Muslim city council and Muslim taking over the street in Paris is a bigger concern to me than some guy in Pakistan listening to some local Iman rant on the radio about Jihad.

[Gaffer]

Interesting rev.

I said the administration is responsible for all of this. That includes much of the congress. Mclame and grame to name the two you mention. It's why we need more conservatives and tea party people in congress.

Bush's part in all of this is no longer relevant. What he started has been reshaped and bastardized by this admin.

The cultural population threat you mention is part of the soft jihad being used now in this country and Europe. It's stage one. France is already experiencing the first part of stage two. And it's all centered with the muslim brotherhood who is financed and supported by.....saudi arabia.

As for the author of Dying to Win. He seems to be a leftie secularist. It's really hard to recruit suicide bombers from secularists. Kinda like getting Noir to go blow himself up in a meat house to promote vegans. It ain't gonna happen.

It takes the promise of some great reward in the after life to get people to do that. The Japanese used it in world war two and the muslims use it now. It's politics for the guys in charge, but for everyone under them it's a way to paradise. The soviets didn't use suicide bombers, neither do the chinese. It takes a strong religious mindset to kill yourself and others for your cause and a promise of a great reward in the after life. I think that author is full of shit.

The liberals didn't learn the lesson of iran in 1978 when they, supported by carter, attempted to take over iran with a secular Marxist govt. Once the shah was out the Marxists were rounded up and executed by the religious extremists. It's happening again in egypt, libya, tunisia and syria. The administration is once again backing the wrong side. It's not the fault of the CIA, the military or any other agency. It's the fault of the administration that is giving the orders. And this one is ten times worse than the Bush administration even thought of being. And twenty times more incompetent.

Are there lots of conspiracies going on? You bet. But they are not the ones you post from youtube. Those are just nuts and distractions from the real things. Look at this hand, don't pay attention to the other one.

AQ exists as an arm of the brotherhood, which in turn is an arm of the sauds. The sauds use these and many other arms to promote unrest and war throughout the region and the world, much as the soviets did during the cold war. Same tactics are being used today with the sauds keeping a low profile. The soviets and chinese didn't really get along but they kept a uneasy peace and supported each other at times, much like the shites and sunnis now. The hardest part for the sauds is they are dealing with tribal loyalties rather than national loyalties. That's why they need the caliphate.

The threat to the world is islam, the threat to this country is washington under the current regime.

[Marcus Aurelius]

If you would be so kind as to let me know what a terrorist looks like, I would be happy to turn them over to the authorities. I have yet to knowingly meet one let alone know someone is a terrorist as I walk past them in the street.


like this...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_WoIE9xf9-Jo/S_WjKdRzo3I/AAAAAAAABEk/EF2-QOmaYt8/s400/Mohammed.jpg

http://iamiranaware.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/prophet-mohammed-ayisha1.jpg

http://blog.balder.org/billeder-blog/Cartoon-Gregorius-Nekschot-Prophet-Mohammed-Deflowering-Aisha-260.jpg

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Rev there is only a grey area when you create a grey area. It's easy to point things out from the past and bring them up so you can say, see they did it too.

muslims become terrorist because the koran tells them too. It's that simple. Accidentally killing an innocent does create a terrorist it just justifies his determination. He was already of the mind set.

There was a strike against this country that killed 3000 people. That created a very formidable force of millions that were set against the fanatical islamics. They have continued their attacks over the last 12 years and we have struck back. We don't target the innocents like they do. We try to only kill the terrorists. We don't always succeed. Does that cause more terrorists. No, it just inspires those that support them to be more active. Do their killing of our innocents inspire us to slaughter people. No, we step up or operations to kill the terrorists.

It's not grey, it's black and white. Try putting yourself in the shoes of the people defending you for a change, get a different perspective. It's fine to think outside the box, but sometimes you got to go back in the box to for focus.

If you were concentrating on this administration and how corrupt it is I can go along with you. But you always condemn America as a whole. Saying "we" did this and that. Try putting the blame where it belongs, on the administration and their incompetence in running things, instead of America. You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Gaffer again.-Tyr