Christians Beheaded in New Jersey

[Larrymc]

Can you believe this never made it to big media? (Sarcasm)

http://gopthedailydose.com/2013/04/06/two-christians-beheaded-in-new-jersey-by-muslim-man-media-silent/

[jimnyc]

He's not a "real Muslim". Now, had he committed terror attacks against Jews, dragged corpses around on a motorcycle or suited up children to blow themselves up, THEN he may be worthy of being a good Muslim!

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Can you believe this never made it to big media? (Sarcasm)

http://gopthedailydose.com/2013/04/06/two-christians-beheaded-in-new-jersey-by-muslim-man-media-silent/
Why isn't this considered a hate crime??? Or a muslim terrorist act ? We should be asking that ! Give the scum a quick trial then hang him if he is found to be guilty. Will never happen but its the correct way to render justice. Justice be damned is our current system in America. ..... Were it not so that murdering scum that murdered those innocent people at Fort Hood would have already been shot by firing squad.. We have already lost our nation folks.. you've lost when justice does not exist IMHO...TYR

[Larrymc]

He's not a "real Muslim". Now, had he committed terror attacks against Jews, dragged corpses around on a motorcycle or suited up children to blow themselves up, THEN he may be worthy of being a good Muslim!Coptic Christians, this was news to me!! http://christianity.about.com/od/Coptic-Orthodoxy/a/JZ-Coptic-Christian-Beliefs.htm

[Larrymc]

Why isn't this considered a hate crime??? Or a muslim terrorist act ? We should be asking that ! Give the scum a quick trial then hang him if he is found to be guilty. Will never happen but its the correct way to render justice. Justice be damned is our current system in America. ..... Were it not so that murdering scum that murdered those innocent people at Fort Hood would have already been shot by firing squad.. We have already lost our nation folks.. you've lost when justice does not exist IMHO...TYRI agree we have a broken justice system, Fort Hood is cut and dry, dozens of witnesses and he seems quit proud of him self, yet untold money and time will be wasted on this circus, and then will pay a couple grand a month for the rest of his life.

[Kathianne]

Can you believe this never made it to big media? (Sarcasm)

http://gopthedailydose.com/2013/04/06/two-christians-beheaded-in-new-jersey-by-muslim-man-media-silent/

I do wish I could say this seemed 'biased,' against Muslims, unfortunately it seems near normal of what the extremists consider normal.

[red state]

TYR,

You'll not hear a peep of this cuz we have an administration who favors muSLUM/LEFTIST ways over the AMERICAN way. After all, his family has close ties with radical Saudi's and he was placed in power by the very muSLUMs we now support. Funny how our fathers and grandfathers fought to liberate folks such as BILL SOROS yet he supports our enemies and contributes greatly in placing the SOW we now have in OUR White House. I sometimes wonder (especially with the way Europe ended up) if we should have simply stayed out of ANY of the World Wars and bombed the $#!T out of Japan for waking us up. After that, we should have went back to sleep (except for weeding out the LEFTIST...our real enemy). THEY have been more harmful to this Nation than ANY Hitler or muSLUM could EVER be.

[Kathianne]

TYR,

You'll not hear a peep of this cuz we have an administration who favors muSLUM/LEFTIST ways over the AMERICAN way. After all, his family has close ties with radical Saudi's and he was placed in power by the very muSLUMs we now support. Funny how our fathers and grandfathers fought to liberate folks such as BILL SOROS yet he supports our enemies and contributes greatly in placing the SOW we now have in OUR White House. I sometimes wonder (especially with the way Europe ended up) if we should have simply stayed out of ANY of the World Wars and bombed the $#!T out of Japan for waking us up. After that, we should have went back to sleep (except for weeding out the LEFTIST...our real enemy). THEY have been more harmful to this Nation than ANY Hitler or muSLUM could EVER be.

Bill Soros? Don't know him, I do know my gather and grandfather were to busy fighting Nazis or Spanish to bother with a Soros.

So, after your 'wondering' on WW's what is your conclusions at this date?

Regarding your 'summation', who is the 'left' that has been more harmful than Hitler or Muslims and what is it we should have done to 'them' before we went to sleep?"

[Jeff]

TYR,

You'll not hear a peep of this cuz we have an administration who favors muSLUM/LEFTIST ways over the AMERICAN way. After all, his family has close ties with radical Saudi's and he was placed in power by the very muSLUMs we now support. Funny how our fathers and grandfathers fought to liberate folks such as BILL SOROS yet he supports our enemies and contributes greatly in placing the SOW we now have in OUR White House. I sometimes wonder (especially with the way Europe ended up) if we should have simply stayed out of ANY of the World Wars and bombed the $#!T out of Japan for waking us up. After that, we should have went back to sleep (except for weeding out the LEFTIST...our real enemy). THEY have been more harmful to this Nation than ANY Hitler or muSLUM could EVER be.

We don't hear nothing because we have a radical muslim as a president, look at the money he is giving them, If ya think about it if he truly is a Muslim that would explain so much of his first 5 years

[Drummond]

Why isn't this considered a hate crime??? Or a muslim terrorist act ? We should be asking that ! Give the scum a quick trial then hang him if he is found to be guilty. Will never happen but its the correct way to render justice. Justice be damned is our current system in America. ..... Were it not so that murdering scum that murdered those innocent people at Fort Hood would have already been shot by firing squad.. We have already lost our nation folks.. you've lost when justice does not exist IMHO...TYR:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

We don't hear nothing because we have a radical muslim as a president, look at the money he is giving them, if ya think about it if he truly is a Muslim that would explain so much of his first 5 years I hate to break it to you my friend but that second --if-- doesn't belong in that sentence. Obama is a muslim in hiding. The fact is that is the only thing that makes any sense out of his actions as President. What's that "sweetest sound he ever heard"???? Here is the rub even on that truth, tens of millions of muslims around the world haven't a clue that he is a muslim in hiding! Its not like they can star a campaign to announce it to them all but most(if not all) of the top Islamic leaders know. Its a game of deception and it's played for keeps!!!! I'd bet my life and that of my family on it , that's how damn sure I am! And consider this American muslims vote for abortion every chance they get. Because they will refuse to ever have one but they damn sure are happy we American infidels have had well over 50 million of them! Think about that and why/what they consider when always voting for it.... -Tyr

[jafar00]

This killing has nothing to do with Islam. I hope you still have the death penalty there in the US because this scum would deserve it.

[jafar00]

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/new_jersey&id=8989357

Apparently they were shot first before the heads and hands were severed. Looks like a failed attempt at disguising the identities of the bodies by the purp.

[red state]

Bill Soros? Don't know him, I do know my gather and grandfather were to busy fighting Nazis or Spanish to bother with a Soros.

So, after your 'wondering' on WW's what is your conclusions at this date?

Regarding your 'summation', who is the 'left' that has been more harmful than Hitler or Muslims and what is it we should have done to 'them' before we went to sleep?"

Bill soros....meant to say George Soros. Bill was just another SOB that I have had run-ins with so forgive the Freudian Slip. I believe anyone on the forum knew who I was referring to but I'm glad to have cleared that up for ya.

My grandfather was also busy fighting the Japs but I'm sure it would sit just as well for a Filipino to be doing the same thing 'GEORGE' Soros has done and is doing (AFTER) being rescued by OUR troops. They fought for FREEDOM and he fights to enslave us....very evil individual.

As for: [who ARE the left that HAVE been more harmful than Hitler or muSLUMS], you can figure that one out or look it up just as you may need to look up some basic grammar rules to correct we lowly rednecks who are so much more beneath your obvious excellence. Don't know what the hostility is about unless you consider yourself a leftist. I truly can't say but you do seem to play the part of a mild conservative some of the time and at best.

Lastly, the THEM I referred to should have been labelled for what they are and STOPPED before they were allowed to infiltrate our SCHOOL SYSTEM where teachers fail them on many levels or to label some of the 'benefits' for what they are. I could go on but if you are mistakenly thinking that I suggested that we KILL anyone....well, that is simply your line of thinking (not mine). The weeding process I was speaking of would (FOR EXAMPLE) allow us to weed out all the teachers using poor grammar or teachers passing children who are obviously not ready for advancement. I'm sure you understand what I'm talking about and that is a very good example of what is wrong with this country that we've simply thrown money at a never growing sink hole of ignorance, indoctrination and political correctness rather than EDUCATION.

I do hope that this explains things more thoroughly and I appologize to the others for having to explain this rudimentary cause and effect that most CONSERVATIVES understand.

[jafar00]

We don't hear nothing because we have a radical muslim as a president, look at the money he is giving them, If ya think about it if he truly is a Muslim that would explain so much of his first 5 years

Suuuuuure. Looks like a typical radical Muslim going to church like he should be right?

http://www.teaparty.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/4229.jpg

[Larrymc]

Suuuuuure. Looks like a typical radical Muslim going to church like he should be right?

http://www.teaparty.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/4229.jpgYep that's him, in his Radical anti-America church, Jihad stage one.

[jimnyc]

Yep that him in him, in his Radical anti-America church, Jihad stage one.

I believe he was in a "church" with Wright when he ranted about America too. I think Westboro calls their house of worship a "church" too. The message and actions speak MUCH louder than the name of a house of worship.

[Voted4Reagan]

This killing has nothing to do with Islam. I hope you still have the death penalty there in the US because this scum would deserve it.


“The killing evokes this passage in the Quran:


‘When thy Lord was revealing to the angels, ‘I am with you; so confirm the believers. I shall cast into the unbelievers’ hearts terror; so smite above the necks, and smite every finger of them!” – Quran 8:12.”


Right out of the Quran...

[jafar00]

“The killing evokes this passage in the Quran:


‘When thy Lord was revealing to the angels, ‘I am with you; so confirm the believers. I shall cast into the unbelievers’ hearts terror; so smite above the necks, and smite every finger of them!” – Quran 8:12.”


Right out of the Quran...

Is it the year 624 AD? This is about the battle of Badr http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Badr

If I asked you to read the context of a Surah before posting claims about an Ayah, would you bother to do it? Would you consult Tafsir or the history behind it?

The verse is not relevant. Do try again.

[Larrymc]

“The killing evokes this passage in the Quran:


‘When thy Lord was revealing to the angels, ‘I am with you; so confirm the believers. I shall cast into the unbelievers’ hearts terror; so smite above the necks, and smite every finger of them!” – Quran 8:12.”


Right out of the Quran...Jafar00 seems to be one of the very few who can correctly interpret Quran, its the Millions of other ones who misinterpret it, we should be concerned about. it may be just a few extremist groups, but apparently their numbers or in the great majority.

[Voted4Reagan]

Is it the year 624 AD? This is about the battle of Badr http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Badr

If I asked you to read the context of a Surah before posting claims about an Ayah, would you bother to do it? Would you consult Tafsir or the history behind it?

The verse is not relevant. Do try again.
The verse is the same as it's been for 1400 years.

Stop making excuses for those who commit these acts.

He was a Muslim

He took a literal interpretation of the Quran and murdered 2 people on American Soil.

He should be hung...

What's the Sharia punishment for murder?

[jafar00]

Jafar00 seems to be one of the very few who can correctly interpret Quran, its the Millions of other ones who misinterpret it, we should be concerned about. it may be just a few extremist groups, but apparently their numbers or in the great majority.

Hey, it's not just me. Here are a bunch of links to back me up.

Why do I cop a load of abuse for being a Muslim who knows a little something about his religion?!?



This is important to understand when reading verse 8:12. This verse - along with several ahead of it - was revealed in reference to the Battle of Badr, the first major battle between the Muslims and the Meccan pagans around 625 C.E. A little background is in order.
After the Prophet (pbuh) and his followers were expelled from Mecca and migrated to Yathrib (now known as Medina), a city 300 miles to the north, the Meccans seized all the property of the Muslims that was left in Mecca. This was an act of open war. When the Prophet learned that a large caravan of the Meccans was coming from Syria near Medina, he intended to attack it. Abu Sufyan, who was leading the caravan, learned of this planned attack and sent word to Mecca for protection. His fellow Meccans sent an army, and they met in battle at Badr. The Muslims handily defeated the Meccans, killing almost all of the most important leaders of Mecca.
Now, verse 8:12 comes into clearer focus. The verse speaks about what God told the angels to say to the believers, in order to inspire them before the battle. The Muslims were very fearful, especially since the Meccans were thrice their number, battle hardened, and much better equipped. This becomes even clearer when the verse is read in context:
[9]: Lo! You were praying unto your Sustainer for aid, whereupon He thus responded to you: “I shall, verily, aid you with a thousand angels following one upon another!”
[10]: And God ordained this only as a glad tiding, and that your hearts should thereby be set at rest - since no succour can come from any save God: verily, God is almighty, wise!
[11]: [Remember how it was] when He caused inner calm to enfold you, as an assurance from Him, and sent down upon you water from the skies, so that He might purify you thereby and free you from Satan’s unclean whisperings and strengthen your hearts and thus make firm your steps.
[12]: Lo! Thy Sustainer inspired the angels [to convey this His message to the believers]: “I am with you! [And He commanded the angels:] “And give firmness unto those who have attained to faith (with these words from Me:) ‘I shall cast terror into the hearts of those who are bent on denying the truth; strike, then, their necks, and strike off every one of their finger-tips.’” [emphasis added]
See? The verse is clearly speaking about the events surrounding the Battle of Badr. It is not a general command to “strike at the necks of the infidels.” Anyone with an understanding of the history of Islam knows this. When I read these verses, I know that they refer to the Battle of Badr. No where in my mind is there even an inkling of a thought to “strike at the necks of the infidels.”

http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/a_new_quran/


8:12 Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instill fear into the hearts of the Unbelievers: Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them."


Badr is the place where it was as if the unseen realm flooded into the world of matter. It is a place where the early Muslims learned the lesson of the power of reliance - of total reliance on Allah. And it is the place where Allah becomes a teacher to the new Muslim community - guiding them and teaching them the way of reliance on Him. Allah sends the angels from the invisible world to give firmness to the believers - their hearts became firm, their feet became firm, and then the angels, rank on rank, bring firmness to the believers at Allah's command. Here the favors of Allah, the assistance He sends have become so overwhelming, so great, that the firmness of the believers manifests itself physically, palably, to the enemy.

So Allah throws fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve (not only disbelieve, but become actively, militarily hostile to belief). As already mentioned, some among the Meccans experienced dreams that were taken as bad omens. So there was a decline in confidence as word of these dreams spread through the ranks. Before the battle, the Qurayash sent out a scout on horseback to circle around the Prophet's army and report back on numbers and weaponry. The scout reported that they had few weapons and no reinforcements but he was so taken by the presence and solidity of the soldiers that he expressed uncertainty for the Quraysh despite their numbers. By the time the Meccans lined up for battle, uncertainty and fears gnawed at them. And with the rise of uncertainty and fear their strategies became weak and their superiority in weapons was nullified. As the verse says, their heads (strategies) were cut off and their fingertips (weapons and maneouvres) were nullified.
http://islamfrominside.com/Pages/Tafsir/Tafsir(8-11%20to%2018).html



008.012 Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you:
give firmness to the Believers: I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers:
smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."

This verse and the verses before and after were revealed about the Battle of Badr, which occurred in Arabia in the early seventh century. A battle in which the pagans of Makkah traveled more than 200 miles to Madinah with an army of about 1000 to destroy Muslims. Prophet Muhammad (peace be on him) and fellow Muslims had suffered severe persecutions and torture for 13 years in the city of Makkah. And now that they had fled Makkah and found a sanctuary in the city of Madinah, they were once again threatened. Muslim Army was only about 300 strong. God Almighty gave the order to Muslims to fight to defend their lives and faith. The enemy came to them with the intent to kill Muslims. It was a war to defend themselves and their Faith. It was a war imposed upon Muslims.

http://www.islam101.com/terror/verse8_12.htm


Sura 8:12
The first step in our exegetical method is to quote the verse from a reputable translation. MAS Abdel Haleem (The Qur’an, Oxford UP, 2004) translates Sura 8:12 as follows:
8:12 Your [Muhammad’s] Lord revealed to the angels: "I am with you: give the believers firmness; I shall put terror into the hearts of the disbelievers. Strike above their necks and strike their fingertips."
The second step in our exegetical method is to examine the historical context of Sura 8:12. No scholar doubts the historical context of Sura 8—it was revealed after the unexpected victory of the Muslims over the much-larger Meccan army at the wells of Badr, some seventy to eighty miles west of Medina, Muhammad’s new city since 622. Taking place in March 624, the Battle of Badr pitted about 320 Muslims against around 1000 Meccans who had marched north to protect their large caravan returning south from Syria, laden with goods. To intercept and capture this caravan would relieve the financial strains of the fledgling Muslim community in Medina. Also, it would weaken the Meccans who had soundly rejected Muhammad two years earlier. However, the Meccans heard of Muhammad’s plan to attack their caravan, so they mustered a force and marched north. Surprisingly, Muhammad won the battle and collected the goods and returned to Medina, believing that Allah saved the weak Muslim community (Sura 8:26, 30, 72).
Some Muslims argued over how to divide the spoils (Sura 8:1), but Allah tells his prophet that he gets twenty percent for himself and for his close relatives and orphans and other needy people (v. 41); the remaining eighty percent were to be divided among all others who had participated in the battle. Now his financial standing in Medina improved immeasurably, as well as his social standing. It was at this time that he ordered some of his enemies to be assassinated (http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/Arlandson/dead_poets.htm).
Thus, all of Sura 8 reveals the elation of a real-life, historical military victory, and Muhammad presses home this victory, as we now see in the literary context—the verses surrounding Sura 8:12.
The third step in our exegetical method is to explore the literary context of Sura 8:12, in this case vv. 5-14. These verses show Muhammad reveling in victory and promising all unbelievers the same fate as the defeated Meccans. For example, in vv. 7-8, he admits that his Muslims wanted the unarmed group (the caravan), but Allah gave them that group as well as the army in order to prove the "Truth to be true and the false to be false" (v. 8). This demonstrates that Muhammad connected military power with the spread of the truth or Islam—always a dubious connection. Next, in v. 9 Allah promised Muhammad reinforcements of "a thousand angels in succession." This gave Muhammad the hope of victory. Finally, vv. 13-14 say that anyone who opposes Allah and his messenger would get the same punishment that the Meccans got: "‘That is what you get! Taste that!’—and the torment of the Fire awaits the disbelievers" (v. 14). This is standard deduction in the Quran. Hell is for losers.
The historical and literary contexts, then, reveal that Allah helps Muhammad with angels, that his military victory demonstrates the truth of Islam and the falsehood of polytheism, and that the unbelievers go to hell. Clearly, Muhammad’s victory wins him respect and even fear from the inhabitants of Medina.
The fourth step in our exegetical process is to analyze and interpret key elements in Sura 8:12, which reveal three bloody truths. First, the verb "to strike" (three-letter root is D-r-b) is used two times: "strike above their necks" and "strike their fingertips." Some translations exceed the fingertips and say: "fingers and toes" (Hilali and Khan); "every joint of their bodies" (Maududi); "every pore and tip (Zafrulla Khan); and "every joint" (Ahmed Ali). Though Maududi’s translation is probably the original intent of the verse, the goal was to incapacitate the enemy so that he cannot fight again. Second, striking "above" the neck seems misplaced, but Yusuf Ali in his short comment on the verse says that the sword should strike "on the neck, face or head," which "finishes him off." So we must not take the preposition "above" too literally, unless Muhammad meant the head or the face. Regardless, the enemy would have died.
Third and finally, Allah sends Muslim angels to fight either for or with the Muslim humans. Their purpose is to put "terror" into the hearts of the unbelievers. Did these angels actually fight or just help the Muslims by their sides?
S. Abdul A’la Maududi holds the opinion that the Muslim angels merely helped the Muslims:
[T]he angels were not employed directly to take part in fighting and killing, but probably they were used to help the Muslims in making their strokes hard and effective. But the true knowledge is with Allah. (The Meaning of the Qur’an, vol. 2, pp. 133-34)
This last line is a polite way of saying that he really does not know, but favors the belief that the Muslim angels did not actually hit the Meccans. But the Muslim angels made sure that the sword strokes were "hard and effective."
On the other hand, Egyptian radical and godfather of modern jihadist movements Sayyid Qutb says that Muslim angels did strike the unbelievers, but he does not know the details.
God also ordered them to strike the unbelievers over their necks and strike off their fingertips. So they did all this, but in a fashion unknown to us. (In the Shade of the Qur’an, vol. 7, p. 85)
Hence, these two prominent modern commentators go in opposite directions, so they have not decided the question. What did the first generation of Muslims think?
More important than Maududi and Qutb are the earliest Muslims who witnessed the Battle or who heard from firsthand testimony. Bukhari (AD 810-870) collected the most reliable traditions and edited them in his hadith (words and actions of Muhammad outside of the Quran).
Narrated Rifa’a who was one of the warriors who participated in the battle: Jibril (Gabriel) came to the Prophet and said: "How do you look upon the warriors of (the battle of) Badr among yourselves?" The Prophet said, "As the best of the Muslims," or a similar statement. On that Jibril said, "And so are the angels who participated in (the battle of) Badr." (5:3992)
However, this report does not say how exactly the angels participated. Did they strike the necks and the fingertips?
Next, Bukhari offers this report from Ibn Abbas, Muhammad’s cousin, who is considered a highly reliable source for the hadith:
Narrated Ibn Abbas: The Prophet said on the day (of the battle) of Badr, "This is Jibril (Gabriel) holding the head of his horse and equipped with arms for the battle." (5:3995).
But this report does not say how the angels participated, so Maududi’s words fit the uncertainty: "But the true knowledge is with Allah."
Regardless of these inconclusive opinions, they have been briefly cited and discussed as a contrast to the Gospels. Jesus had at his disposal during his arrest in the Garden of Gethsemane more than twelve legions of angels, or more than 72,000, but he did not call on them to wage jihad on unbelievers (Matt. 26:53). Rather, he went to the cross and died a physical death in order to ransom the entire world from its sins.
To sum up our interpretation of Sura 8:12, then, this verse is one of many that are found in the context of physical warfare and bloodshed. Muhammad is promised the help of Muslim angels who put terror in the hearts of the Meccans. But it is unclear from the Muslim sources and commentators whether these angels or the Muslims struck above the necks and cut off the fingers. Historically and in reality, this was done by the Muslims. But even if we assume, contrary to fact, that angels either slaughtered or helped the Muslims to slaughter sinners and polytheists, Sura 8:12, as we will see, diametrically opposes Luke 22:36. History demonstrates that Jesus never waged jihad on sinners or unbelievers—he did not even swing a sword—and he died for the polytheists whom Allah’s holy soldiers killed.
Before leaving this section, if the readers would like to see the Quranic verse in multiple translations, they should go here (http://quranbrowser.com/) and type in the reference, like so: 8:12. Typing in the larger context (8:1-14) is interesting as well. Readers should keep in mind the historical context of the Sura, and the verses will then make sense.


Is that enough history and context for you to see that the verse can in no way be used to justify first shooting, the decapitating 2 innocent people in 2013 and hiding their bodies?


The verse is the same as it's been for 1400 years.

Stop making excuses for those who commit these acts.

He was a Muslim

He took a literal interpretation of the Quran and murdered 2 people on American Soil.

He should be hung...

What's the Sharia punishment for murder?

Sure the verse has been the same all this time. The explanation for it, the literary and historical context, and the meaning of it has been the same too. The only thing that has changed is the anti-Islam extremist blogs trying to twist it for their own agenda.

What is the Sharia punishment for murder?

slay not the life which Allah hath made sacred, save in the course of justice. (6:151)

O ye who believe! Retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the murdered; the freeman for the freeman, and the slave for the slave, and the female for the female. And for him who is forgiven somewhat by his (injured) brother, prosecution according to usage and payment unto him in kindness. This is an alleviation and a mercy from your Lord. He who transgresseth after this will have a painful doom. (2:178)

It is the death penalty unless the relatives of the deceased forgive the murderer and are paid restitution.

[red state]

Jafar00 seems to be one of the very few who can correctly interpret Quran, its the Millions of other ones who misinterpret it, we should be concerned about. it may be just a few extremist groups, but apparently their numbers or in the great majority.

Larry, as I've stated, jafar may very well be the only REAL muSLUM out there and as you've said: "its the Millions of other ones who misinterpret" the cult scriptures from a cult that derived from the moon god Allah. They even use the same symbol (THE CRESCENT MOON). This explains the muSLUMs taking part in pagen practices and the obvious need to shed blood as did the pagens that came before them in killing their captives, slaves and even their children. This is evident in some of their practices and symbols which are under the guise of monotheism (which mohummad copied from the Hebrews and Christians) so that his lies would be better accepted. They even continue the worship of the moon god allah by kissing a stone (the black stone of the moon god). Why else would muSLUMs preserve pagan customs and practices such as circumambulating a pagan temple? Why else would their god demand the shedding of blood? Because they are an evil cult....with the exception of jafar being the only REAL muSLUM of peace.....the rest are the muSLUMs who practice a religion of PIECES!

[Voted4Reagan]

slay not the life which Allah hath made sacred, save in the course of justice. (6:151)




Guess they didn't teach him that one in the Madrassa...

[jafar00]

Guess they didn't teach him that one in the Madrassa...

More like he didn't do any study.

[Larrymc]

Hey, it's not just me. Here are a bunch of links to back me up.

Why do I cop a load of abuse for being a Muslim who knows a little something about his religion?!?



http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/a_new_quran/


http://islamfrominside.com/Pages/Tafsir/Tafsir(8-11%20to%2018).html


http://www.islam101.com/terror/verse8_12.htm



Is that enough history and context for you to see that the verse can in no way be used to justify first shooting, the decapitating 2 innocent people in 2013 and hiding their bodies?



Sure the verse has been the same all this time. The explanation for it, the literary and historical context, and the meaning of it has been the same too. The only thing that has changed is the anti-Islam extremist blogs trying to twist it for their own agenda.

What is the Sharia punishment for murder?

slay not the life which Allah hath made sacred, save in the course of justice. (6:151)

O ye who believe! Retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the murdered; the freeman for the freeman, and the slave for the slave, and the female for the female. And for him who is forgiven somewhat by his (injured) brother, prosecution according to usage and payment unto him in kindness. This is an alleviation and a mercy from your Lord. He who transgresseth after this will have a painful doom. (2:178)

It is the death penalty unless the relatives of the deceased forgive the murderer and are paid restitution.Jafar00 it seems you were raised to believe your religion is peaceful, and may be it is, but when you see the heinous acts done daily in the name of Islam and or Allah, what are people to believe, until entire Muslim community's and Clerics display their disapproval, and disgust for these acts, You are just a voice crying in the wilderness, The big quiston is why aren't Muslims out raged at daily uses of their religion to justify heinous acts??

[Jeff]

Suuuuuure. Looks like a typical radical Muslim going to church like he should be right?

http://www.teaparty.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/4229.jpg

Thats the difference between you and I jafar it does look like a typical LYING Muslim going to church , if you remember 5 years ago he was going to have a church for him and his family to attend by Easter well Easter 5 years later has come and went and still no church, why , simple he swore for so long he wasn't a Muslim if he joined a Mosque now he would have to admit he is a liar , this way he goes to church ( ooo and by the way the church or Preacher that blessed his marriage and was his spiritual adviser travels the country screaming how the white man is the devil ) but yes he is not kneeling on his prayer rug but he does refuse to join a church why because he has a religion he is a Muslim . Even you must realize you can attend a Christian church but just attending makes you no more a Christian than if I go to a NASCAR race makes me a professional driver

[jafar00]

Jafar00 it seems you were raised to believe your religion is peaceful, and may be it is, but when you see the heinous acts done daily in the name of Islam and or Allah, what are people to believe, until entire Muslim community's and Clerics display their disapproval, and disgust for these acts, You are just a voice crying in the wilderness, The big quiston is why aren't Muslims out raged at daily uses of their religion to justify heinous acts??

Don't confuse the actions of those who say they are Muslims with Islam. People can be wrong and do the wrong thing.

No Muslim I know is supportive of terrorism or any of the crimes committed by their people. There are hundreds of condemnations by Islamic leaders all over the internet if you look for them. They don't get as much free publicity as terrorists though. Not sensational enough and not supportive of the war on terror thing I guess.


Thats the difference between you and I jafar it does look like a typical LYING Muslim going to church , if you remember 5 years ago he was going to have a church for him and his family to attend by Easter well Easter 5 years later has come and went and still no church, why , simple he swore for so long he wasn't a Muslim if he joined a Mosque now he would have to admit he is a liar , this way he goes to church ( ooo and by the way the church or Preacher that blessed his marriage and was his spiritual adviser travels the country screaming how the white man is the devil ) but yes he is not kneeling on his prayer rug but he does refuse to join a church why because he has a religion he is a Muslim . Even you must realize you can attend a Christian church but just attending makes you no more a Christian than if I go to a NASCAR race makes me a professional driver

If he is a Muslim, he is hiding it pretty well.

[Larrymc]

Don't confuse the actions of those who say they are Muslims with Islam. People can be wrong and do the wrong thing.

No Muslim I know is supportive of terrorism or any of the crimes committed by their people. There are hundreds of condemnations by Islamic leaders all over the internet if you look for them. They don't get as much free publicity as terrorists though. Not sensational enough and not supportive of the war on terror thing I guess.



If he is a Muslim, he is hiding it pretty well.If the Muslim community was up in arms over atrocity's being done in the name of Islam, you can't tell me with current administration trying to sale the Muslims as peace loving, and with the media bias that it would not make the news, while they may like you in small settings deny it represents there culture, but you don't see large community's doing so.

[jafar00]

If the Muslim community was up in arms over atrocity's being done in the name of Islam, you can't tell me with current administration trying to sale the Muslims as peace loving, and with the media bias that it would not make the news, while they may like you in small settings deny it represents there culture, but you don't see large community's doing so.

Meh.. The forum isn't big enough to post it all. And this doesn't include countless Friday sermons I've sat through condemning AQ and the like.



Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attacks
This page focuses on condemnations of the 9/11 terrorist attacks and other terrorist incidents since then as well as of terrorism in general. It is not a complete listing of all condemnations written or spoken by Muslims but is intended to provide a representative sample.
It has often been claimed in the media that Muslims are "silent" and do not condemn terrorism. This page is intended to refute that claim. Muslims have not been silent. Not even close. See also How American Muslims Really Responded to September 11 (http://www.mediamonitors.net/riadabdelkarim3.html) for more information about the Muslim response to 9/11. And another listing is at Statements Against Terror (http://www.unc.edu/~kurzman/terror.htm). Also Muslim Voices Against Terrorism (http://www.theamericanmuslim.org/2005jul_comments.php?id=733_0_39_60_C). Related commentary at Friedman Wrong About Muslims Again (http://www.juancole.com/2005/07/friedman-wrong-about-muslims-again-and.html), by Juan Cole and The Myth of Muslim Condemnation of Terror (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ali-eteraz/the-myth-of-muslim-condem_b_67904.html) by Ali Eteraz.

Muslim Leaders
A Message from the Council on American-Islamic Relations (http://www.cair-net.org/crisiscenter/html/cair_ad.html)
American Muslim Leaders Condemn Attacks (http://islamicity.com/articles/Articles.asp?ref=AM0109-335)
American Muslims Denouncing Terrorism (http://www.beliefnet.com/gallery/terrorist.html)
American Muslims and Scholars Denounce Terrorism on Anniversary of 9/11 (http://www.islam-democracy.org/terrorism_statement.asp)
Australian Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attack (http://www.muslimaffairs.com.au/News/PR-terror.htm)
Bin Laden Distorts Islam, Islamic Scholars Say (http://www.themodernreligion.com/terror/wtc-distortion.html)
Bin Laden's Idea of 'Jihad' is Out of Bounds, Islamic Scholars Say (http://seattlep-i.nwsource.com/national/39887_islam22.shtml)
British Muslim leaders condemn terrorism (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/5111092.stm)
British Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attacks (http://www.muslimnews.co.uk/news/news.php?article=1062)
Canadian Muslims Condemn Terorist Attacks (http://muslim-canada.org/news09112001.html)
Islamic Statements Against Terrorism in the Wake of the September 11 Mass Murders (http://www.unc.edu/~kurzman/terror.htm)
Islamic World Deplores U.S. Losses (http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/americas/newsid_1544000/1544955.stm)
Looking for Answers in Islam's Holy Book: What Islamic Scholars Have to Say (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A43785-2001Sep29?language=printer)
Muslim Reactions to Sept 11 (http://www.crescentlife.com/heal%20the%20world/muslim_reactions_to_sept_11.htm)
Muslim Voices Against Extremism & Terrorism - Part II - Statements by Organizations (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/muslim_voices_against_extremism_terrorism_part_ii_ statements_by_organizatio/0012210)
Muslim World Condemns Attacks on U.S. (http://www.islam-online.net/English/News/2001-09/13/article18.shtml)
Muslim rulers condemn WTC attacks (http://muslimunity.net/condemn.htm)
New Zealand Muslims Condemn Terrorism (http://www.angelfire.com/biz2/FIANZWEB16/PressRelease1.html)
Organization of the Islamic Conference Foreign Ministers Condemn International Terrorism (http://www.oic-oci.org/english/fm/11_extraordinary/declaration.htm)
Quran a Book of Peace Not War, Islamic Scholars Say (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2001/09/0925_TVkoran.html)
Scholars of Islam Condemn Terrorism (http://groups.colgate.edu/aarislam/response.htm)
Some American Muslims Take a Look at Their Communities' Shortcomings (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=articles&node=&contentID=A50342-2001Nov18)
U.S. Muslim Scholars Condemn Attacks (http://www.islam-online.net/English/News/2001-09/13/article1.shtml)
UK Muslim Leaders Condemn 'Lunatic Fringe' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_1554000/1554177.stm)
When is jihad OK? Muslim Perspectives (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/134342698_jihad17.html)

Specific Muslim Scholars
A Common Word Between Us and You (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/11_10_07_letter.pdf), by 130 Islamic scholars
Attacks on Civilians: Forbidden by Islam (http://www.islam-online.net/English/News/2001-09/13/article25.shtml), by Shaykh Yusuf Qaradawi
Ayatollah Muhammad Husain Fadlallah of Lebanon condemns Osama Bin Laden (http://www.sullivan-county.com/identity/bin_laden.html), by Ayatollah Muhammad Husain Fadlallah
Bin Laden's Violence is a Heresy Against Islam (http://www.themodernreligion.com/terror/wtc-heresy.html), by AbdulHakim Murad (Tim Winter)
Defending the Civilians (a fatwa against terrorism) (http://www.livingislam.org/k/dcmm_e.html), by Shaykh Muhammad Afifi al-Akiti
Expert Says Islam Prohibits Violence Against Innocents (http://www0.mercurycenter.com/local/center/isl0916.htm), by Shaykh Hamza Yusuf
Grand Sheikh of al-Azhar Condemns Suicide Bombings (http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle_east/newsid_1690000/1690624.stm), by Shaykh Muhammad Sayyed Tantawi
High Mufti of Russian Muslims calls for Extradition of Bin Laden (http://english.pravda.ru/world/2001/09/20/15781.html), by Russian Muslim leaders
Iran's Supreme Leader Condemns Attacks on U.S. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle_east/newsid_1549000/1549573.stm), by Ayatollah Ali Khamanei
Islam and the Question of Violence (http://www.al-islam.org/al-serat/IslamAndViolence.htm), by Seyyed Hossein Nasr, Iranian scholar
Jihad and the Modern World (http://users.tpg.com.au/dezhen/jihad_and_the_modern_world.html), by Dr. Sherman Jackson
Jihad: Its True Meaning and Purpose (http://www.isna.net/Library/khutbahs/Jihad.asp), by Muzammil H. Siddiqui
Most Prominent Sunni Muslim Scholar Condemns Killing of Civilians (http://www.islam-online.net/English/News/2001-09/15/article2.shtml), by Shaykh Muhammad Sayyed Tantawi, Grand Imam of Al-Azhar University
Muslim Attitudes about Violence (http://www.islamqa.com/index.php?ref=21757&ln=eng), by Shaykh Muhammad al-Munajjid
Muslim Voices Against Extremism and Terrorism - Part I - Fatwas (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/muslim_voices_against_extremism_and_terrorism_part _i_fatwas/0012209), by various scholars
Muslim Voices Against Extremism and Terrorism - Part IV A few Quotes (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/muslim_voices_against_extremism_and_terrorism_a_fe w_quotes/0012273), by various scholars
On the Terrorist Attacks (http://www.themodernreligion.com/terror/wtc-imamzaid.html), by Imam Zaid Shakir
Prominent Pakistani Cleric Tahir ul Qadri condemns Bin Laden (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/10/17/195606.shtml), by Tahir ul Qadri
Reclaiming Islam from the Terrorists (http://www.themodernreligion.com/terror/wtc-murad.html), by AbdulHakim Murad, British scholar
Reflections on the National Horror of September 11, 2001 (http://www.isna.net/Library/khutbahs/IslamandtheMuslimsofAmerica.asp), by Muzammil H. Siddiqui
Refutation of Bin Laden's Defense of Terrorism (http://www.understanding-islam.com/related/questions.jsp?point=3&id=1007), by Moiz Amjad, Pakistani scholar
Response to a Question about Islam and Terrorism (http://www.understanding-islam.com/related/questions.jsp?point=3&id=955), by Moiz Amjad, Pakistani scholar
Saudi Clerics Condemn Terrorism (http://www.iviews.com/scripts/news/stories/default.cfm?id=670835), by Sheikh Abderrahman al-Sudayes
Saudi Grand Mufti Condemns Terrorist Attacks in U.S. (http://saudiembassy.net/press_release/01-spa/09-15-Islam.htm), by Shaikh Abdulaziz Al-Ashaikh
Scholars' Statements Regarding The Attacks In The United States (http://www.alharamain.org/english/articles/scholars_on_attack.htm), by Shaykh Abdul-Aziz Aali-Shaykh, Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia and President of the Committee of Senior Scholars, and Shaykh Saleh Al-Lehaydaan, Chief Justice Of The Saudi Arabian Judiciary, and Shaykh Dr. Saaleh Ibn Ghaanem As-Sadlaan, Pres. Higher Studies Dept. Al-Imaam Muhammd Ibn Saud Islamic University
Spanish Muslim Clerical authorities Issue Fatwa against Osamah Bin Laden (http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/4637/terr42a.html), by Spanish Muslim leaders
Terrorism Is at Odds With Islamic Tradition (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/open-archive/message/10), by Khaled Abou El Fadl
Terrorism: Not a doorway to heaven (http://archives.seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/texis/web/vortex/display?slug=satrdr22&date=20010922), by Jamil Abdul Razzak Hajoo, of Idriss Mosque, Seattle
The Myth of Islamic Terrorism Exploded (http://www.theclearpath.com/old/articles/theclearpath/20.html), by Shaykh Abdul Azeez bin Abdullah bin Baaz and Shaykh Muhammad Bin Saalih al Uthaymeen
The worst enemies of Islam are from within (http://www.islamfortoday.com/hamza01.htm), by Hamza Yusuf
Top Saudi Cleric Says Attacks on U.S. a Terrible Crime in Islam (http://www.iviews.com/scripts/news/stories/default.cfm?id=647305), by Shaykh Salah al-Lahidan, head of the Islamic Judiciary of Saudi Arabia
Violence Against Innocents Violates Islamic Law (http://www.themodernreligion.com/terror/imam-wahhaj.html), by Imam Siraj Wahhaj
What is jihad? What is terrorism? (http://www.religioscope.com/info/doc/jihad/2002_scholars_definition.htm), by Statement by Muslim scholars

Individual Ordinary Muslims
Special links
A Country United (http://www.muhajabah.com/9-11_poem.htm)- Poem by a Muslim woman about September 11
Islam Denounces Terrorism (http://www.islamdenouncesterrorism.com/)- Site of Muslim scholar Harun Yahya
Muslims Against Terrorism (http://www.matusa.org/)- An organization founded by Muslims who stand against the hijacking of Islam by extremists and terrorists
Report: Muslim Celebrities Condemn Attacks (http://www.islam-online.net/English/News/2001-09/17/article3.shtml)- Yusuf Islam (Cat Stevens), Muhammad Ali, Hakeem Olajuwon of the Houston Rockets
Muslim charities who solicited donations to help victims in New York City:


Global Relief Foundation (http://www.grf.org/emergency-usawtc.html)
Islamic Relief (http://www.islamic-relief.com/usa/USA-alert.htm)
Mercy USA (http://www.mercyusa.org/html/default_new_york.html)



And here are articles by other ordinary Muslims:
A Curse Upon the Brigands Who Kill Children (http://unmedia.blogspot.com/2002_11_21_unmedia_archive.html#85700270), by Aziz Poonawalla
A Dastardly Act (http://www.mediamonitors.net/ikramsehgal37.html), by Ikram Seghal
A Muslim Surgeon's Prayer for His Fellow Americans (http://www.oregonlive.com/commentary/oregonian/index.ssf?/xml/story.ssf/html_standard.xsl?/base/editorial/10028013122561253.xml), by Aftab Ahmad
Amid simmering religious tension, Muslims denounce killing of Christian family (http://www.newsday.com/news/local/state/ny-bc-nj--familyslain0118jan18,0,4137021.story), by (Associated Press report)
Area Muslims slam suicide bombing (http://www.washingtontimes.com/metro/20050310-105612-1198r.htm), by Washington Times report
Bin Laden's Fatwa is a Call to Plunder Not Jihad (http://www.altmuslim.com/opinion_comments.php?id=795_0_25_0_C), by Aziz H. Poonawalla
Defaming, Defiling, and Falsifying Islam: A Condemnation of al-Qaeda (http://www.mediamonitors.net/frankmafflitto12.html), by Frank M. Afflitto, convert to Islam
Does the Quran Sanction Violence? (http://www.mediamonitors.net/elmasry31.html), by Mohamed Elmasry
Hirabah versus Jihad (http://www.cuii.org/hirabah.htm), by Robert D. Crane, convert to Islam
Horrified by What Happened in the U.S. (http://www.mediamonitors.net/majdoubeh4.html), by Ahmad Y. Majdoubeh
Human Nature at Its Worst (http://www.mediamonitors.net/meshkin16.html), by Amir Meshkin
I Believe in Allah and America (http://www.iviews.com/scripts/articles/stories/default.cfm?id=13792&category_id=39), by Arsalan Iftikhar
I'm Not the Enemy (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentID=A21488-2001Sep12), by Reshma Memon Yaqub
Islam Demands a Muslim Response to 9/11 (PDF) (http://www.minaret.org/response%20to%20terror.pdf), by Imad-ad-Dean Ahmad
Islam condemns all acts of terrorism (http://www.daar-ul-ehsaan.org/terrorism.htm), by Daar-ul-Ehsaan
Islam is Not the Source of Terrorism (http://www.mediamonitors.net/harunyahya1.html), by Harun Yahya
Islam is Not to Blame (http://www.understanding-islam.com/related/discshow.jsp?point=3&id=955&dis_id=221), by Omar Sarwar
Islam is a Religion of Peace, Not Terrorism (http://www.mediamonitors.net/muhammadali1.html), by Muhammad Ali
Islam: A Home of Tolerance Not Fanaticism (http://www.themodernreligion.com/terror/wtc-home.html), by Yusuf Islam (Cat Stevens)
Islamic Scholars Should Speak Up for the Truth about Islam and Jihad (http://laila.aresworld.net/silent.html), by Laila Nasheeba-Or
Jihad Means Waging Peace and Justice (http://www.mediamonitors.net/elmasry8.html), by Mohamed Elmasry
May God Touch All of Us with His Infinite Grace (http://www.mediamonitors.net/susan17.html), by Susan Abulhawa
Muslim scholars reach out to Pope (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7038992.stm), by BBC News
Muslims Must Not Let Terrorism Become the Voice of Islam (http://www.iviews.com/scripts/articles/stories/default.cfm?id=13414&category_id=39), by Blerime Topalli
My Fatwa on the Fanatics (http://www.observer.co.uk/waronterrorism/story/0,1373,556636,00.html), by Ziauddin Sardar
Not In My Name: A Treatise Against Religious Intolerance (http://www.mediamonitors.net/richardldixon1.html), by Richard L. Dixon, convert to Islam
Osama Bin Laden: An Enemy of Islam (http://www.glocaleye.org/binladen.htm), by Muqtedar Khan
Press Release (http://biz.yahoo.com/em/010914/ih1vti6cfrcjj5yqxgoesg_1.html), by Khalid Usman, Councillor, Ward 7, Markham, Ontario
Salafi scholars condemn terrorism (http://muslimmethod.wordpress.com/2007/07/19/a-response-to-robert-spencer-and-others/), by collected by Just your average Muslim
Some Misappropriations of Quranic Verses (http://www.karamah.org/ar/Dakake_Misappropriations.pdf), by David Dakake, Islamic Research Institute (PDF)
Terror Is Not Islam (http://www.twf.org/News/Y2001/0918-NotIslam.html), by Kari Ann Owen (convert to Islam)
The Meaning of Jihad (http://www.iviews.com/scripts/articles/stories/default.cfm?id=13829&category_id=39), by Hesham Hassaballa
The Real Meaning of the Concept of Jihad (http://www.mediamonitors.net/ahmedmotiar1.html), by Ahmed Motiar
Twin Towers Viewed from a Western Minaret: Thoughts of a Convert to Islam (http://www.themodernreligion.com/terror/wtc-westernminaret.html), by Michael Wolfe
Under Attack (http://www.islam-online.net/english/Views/2001/09/article2.shtml), by Imad-ad-Dean Ahmad
What Does the Quran's 'Verse of the Sword' Really Mean? (http://www.iviews.com/scripts/articles/stories/default.cfm?id=13669&category_id=39), by Hesham A. Hassaballa
When the innocent are murdered, we all go into the dark with them (http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4258238,00.html), by Ziauddin Sardar
Who Hijacked Islam (http://www.islam-online.net/English/News/2001-10/10/article8.shtml), by Anwar Ibrahim, Malaysian dissident
World's future hinges on peace between faiths, Islamic scholars tell Pope (http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,,2188742,00.html), by Riazat Butt and Martin Hodgson
Messages on Muslims' Websites:


Al-Islam (http://www.al-islam.org/dilp_statement.html), by scholars at a Shi'ite resource site
Islam: The Modern Religion (http://www.themodernreligion.com/terrorism.htm#list), by Fareena Alam
Islamic Studies page (http://www.arches.uga.edu/~godlas/home.html), by Alan Godlas (convert to Islam)
Kamilat (http://www.kamilat.org/News/prSept11.htm), by Talibah Jilani
Muslim Answers (http://www.muslim-answers.org/), by Abd ar-Rahman Robert Squires
Muslim Voices Against Extremism and Terrorism - Part III - Statements & Articles by Individuals (http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/muslim_voices_against_extremism_and_terrorism_part _iii_statements_articles/0012211), by various individuals

See also: Muslim Imam Offers Words of Prayer at World Trade Center Memorial Ceremony (http://www.islam-online.net/English/News/2001-11/13/article12.shtml)
Bonus: View This Is Islam (http://thisisislam.islamacademy.com/): "Islam, it's all about peace, terrorism it doesn't teach".

Ongoing: The Council on American-Islamic Relations
In an effort to show that Muslim activism against terrorism didn't stop after 9/11, this section contains press releases and statements by the Council on American-Islamic Relations condemning terrorist attacks. This is a resource in development. Subscribe to CAIR's mailing list (http://www.cair-net.org/) to keep up with their latest statements and releases.
American Muslims Condemn Riyadh Bombings (http://www.pakistanlink.com/Community/2003/May/23/14.html) - May 23, 2003
CAIR Calls for Release of All Hostages in Iraq (http://www.cair-net.org/asp/article.asp?id=1222&page=NR) - Tuesday, September 21, 2004
CAIR Condemns 'Barbaric' London Terror Attacks (http://www.cair-net.org/default.asp?Page=articleView&id=1647&theType=NR) - Thursday, July 07, 2005
CAIR Condemns Attack On Seattle Jewish Center (http://www.cair-net.org/default.asp?Page=articleView&id=2242&theType=NR) - Saturday, July 29, 2006
CAIR Condemns Attack On U.S. Medical Personnel In Yemen (http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/qtr1_2003/1230-106.html) - December 30, 2002
CAIR Condemns Attack on US Diplomatic Convoy in Gaza (http://www.pakistanlink.com/Community/2003/oct03/24/14.html) - October 15, 2003
CAIR Condemns Haifa Suicide Bombing (http://www.forrelease.com/D20031004/nysa009.P2.10042003164607.22632.html) - 10/04/2003
CAIR Condemns Hariri Assassination (http://www.cair-net.org/default.asp?Page=articleView&id=1442&theType=NR) - Monday, February 14, 2005
CAIR Condemns Iraq Church Bombings (http://www.cair-net.org/asp/article.asp?id=1145&page=NR) - Sunday, August 01, 2004
CAIR Condemns Killing of British Hostage in Iraq (http://www.cair-net.org/asp/article.asp?id=1257&page=NR) - Friday, October 08, 2004
CAIR Condemns Murder of American in Saudi Arabia (http://www.cair-net.org/asp/article.asp?id=1083&page=NR) - Friday, June 18, 2004
CAIR Condemns Murder of Margaret Hassan (http://www.cair-net.org/asp/article.asp?id=1325&page=NR) - Wednesday, November 17, 2004
CAIR Condemns School Killings in Russia (http://www.cair-net.org/asp/article.asp?id=1200&page=NR) - Tuesday, September 07, 2004
CAIR Joins 'Call to Action' on Darfur Crisis (http://www.cair-net.org/asp/article.asp?id=1147&page=NR) - Tuesday, August 03, 2004
CAIR condemns Istanbul bombings (http://www.cair-net.org/asp/article.asp?id=1029&page=NR) - Thursday, November 20, 2003
CAIR condemns attacks on civilians (http://www.cair-net.org/asp/article.asp?id=693&page=NR) - Thursday, March 28, 2002
CAIR condemns hostage-taking by Iraqi insurgents, calls for release of hostages (http://www.boston.com/dailynews/100/wash/_CAIR_to_Call_for_Release_of_I:.shtml) - 4/9/2004
CAIR condemns killings in Iraq, Pakistan (http://www.cair-net.org/asp/article.asp?id=1045&page=NR) - Tuesday, March 02, 2004
CAIR condemns murder of American in Iraq (http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=167-05112004) - 5/11/2004
CAIR condemns mutilation of bodies in Iraq (http://www.cair-net.org/asp/article.asp?id=1055&page=NR) - Wednesday, March 31, 2004
CAIR statements on the events of September 11 (http://www.cair.com/html/911statements.html) - (various dates)
CAIR welcomes capture of Saddam Hussein (http://www.cair-net.org/asp/article.asp?id=1031&page=NR) - Sunday, December 14, 2003
CAIR-CAN Condemns Anti-Semitic Graffiti (http://www.cair-net.org/asp/article.asp?id=1181&page=NR) - August 25, 2004
CAIR-CAN Condemns Vandalism of Jewish Homes in Toronto (http://www.caircan.ca/itn_more.php?id=A885_0_2_0_M) - Friday, March 19, 2004
CAIR-CAN condemns Daniel Pearl killing (http://www.caircan.ca/itn_more.php?id=A74_0_2_0_M) - Friday, February 22, 2002
CAIR-CAN condemns bomb attack on Passover celebration in Israel (http://www.caircan.ca/itn_more.php?id=A77_0_2_0_M) - Thursday, March 28, 2002
CAIR-CAN condemns firebomb attack of Jewish school (http://www.caircan.ca/itn_more.php?id=914_0_2_0_C) - Tuesday, April 06, 2004
CAIR-CAN condemns gang-rape of woman in Pakistan by tribal court (http://www.caircan.ca/itn_more.php?id=A87_0_2_0_M) - Friday, July 05, 2002
CAIR-CAN condemns hate graffiti on Edmonton synagogue (http://www.caircan.ca/itn_more.php?id=2206_0_2_0_C) - Wednesday, December 28, 2005
CAIR-CAN condemns killing of innocent Christian worshippers in Pakistan (http://www.caircan.ca/itn_more.php?id=A63_0_2_0_M) - Tuesday, October 30, 2001
CAIR-CAN: There is no justification for attacks on innocent people (http://www.caircan.ca/itn_more.php?id=A95_0_2_0_M) - Thursday, November 14, 2002
CAIR-NJ Offers Condolences to Coptic Community (http://www.cair-net.org/default.asp?Page=articleView&id=1397&theType=NR) - Monday, January 17, 2005
CAIR: American Muslims Condemn Sectarian Mosque Bombing (http://www.forrelease.com/D20030705/nysa008.P2.07052003103216.24264.html) - 07/05/2003
Canadian Muslim scholars reject Bin Laden's calls for jihad (http://www.caircan.ca/itn_more.php?id=A61_0_2_0_M) - Monday, October 15, 2001
Canadian Muslims Condemn Recent Khadr Comments That Excuse Terrorism (http://www.caircan.ca/itn_more.php?id=A856_0_2_0_M) - Friday, March 05, 2004
Canadian Muslims condemn 9/11 terrorist attacks (http://www.caircan.ca/itn_more.php?id=A57_0_2_0_M) - Tuesday, September 11, 2001
Canadian Muslims condemn anti-Jewish article (http://www.cair-net.org/asp/article.asp?id=1038&page=NR) - Monday, January 12, 2004
Canadian Muslims condemn church attack in Pakistan (http://www.caircan.ca/itn_more.php?id=A76_0_2_0_M) - Sunday, March 17, 2002
Canadian Muslims condemn vandalism of synagogues (http://www.caircan.ca/itn_more.php?id=A82_0_2_0_M) - Friday, April 12, 2002
Muslims Condemn Philippines Airport Bombing (http://www.iio.org/article.php?story=20030304130841821) - Tuesday, March 04 2003
Muslims Offer Help for Victims of Terrorist Attacks (http://www.cair-ny.com/wtc/wtc3.html) - 9/11/01
Muslims condemn anti-Jewish article (http://www.caircan.ca/itn_more.php?id=A760_0_2_0_M) - Wednesday, January 07, 2004
Muslims condemn anti-Semitic article (http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20021108-042429-5699r) - 11/8/2002
Muslims to hold 9/11 vigil at U.S. Capitol (http://www.cair-net.org/asp/article.asp?id=1022&page=NR) - Thursday, August 28, 2003
Muslims urged to donate for D.C. sniper victims (http://www.cair-net.org/asp/article.asp?id=982&page=NR) - Wednesday, October 16, 2002
U.S. Imams Say Iraq Hostage-Takers Violate Islamic Beliefs (http://www.cair-net.org/asp/article.asp?id=1294&page=NR) - Friday, October 29, 2004
U.S. Muslim Group Condemns bin Laden Videotape (http://www.forrelease.com/D20030911/dcth040.P2.09112003193210.10015.html) - 09/11/2003
U.S. Muslims Condemn Madrid Bombings (http://www.forrelease.com/D20040311/dcth043.P2.03112004160858.10244.html) - 03/11/2004
U.S. Muslims call for 9/11/02 "Day of Unity and Prayer" (http://www.cair-net.org/asp/article.asp?id=878&page=NR) - Tuesday, July 23, 2002
US Muslims Condemn Terrorism in Ad Campaign (http://www.dawn.com/2003/03/09/int7.htm) - March 8, 2003
We repudiate terrorism (http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2007/07/post-17.html) - Ibrahim Hooper, July 11, 2007

Special: Muslims in the Military
Are American Muslims patriotic? Do they serve their country, or support America's response to the terrorist attacks? Read these stories to find out more
Islam Gains Place in U.S. Military As Ranks of Muslims Grow (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/134347642_muslimsoldiers29m.html)
Islamic Scholars Say U.S. Muslim Soldiers Must Fight for Country (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentID=A40545-2001Oct10)
Muslim soldier dies in Iraq (http://www.nbc4.com/news/3405344/detail.html)
Muslims In Military: Arab-American proudly serves U.S. (http://www.freep.com/news/nw/terror2001/muslim9_20011009.htm)
Muslims in military say 'everybody belongs' (http://stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=56332&archive=true)
Muslims in the U.S. Military are As Loyal As Any, Chaplain Says (http://seattlep-i.nwsource.com/attack/43546_chaplains20.shtml)
Ramadan a Sacred Time for U.S. Muslim Troops (http://seattlep-i.nwsource.com/national/47077_ramadan17.shtml)
Soldier of Faith (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/16/AR2008011603131.html?nav=rss_nation/special)
UK Muslims Must Obey UK Law, says Professor Muhammad Abdel Haleem (http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_1634000/1634517.stm)
Plus: American Muslim Armed Forces and Veterans (http://www.amafandvac.org/)

http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php


Spanish Muslims issue 'fatwa' against bin Laden(March 12, 2005) Spain's leading Muslim clerics have issued a religious order declaring Usama bin Ladin an apostate and to have forsaken Islam by backing attacks such as the Madrid train bombings.
The Islamic Commission of Spain timed its fatwa to coincide with the first anniversary of the attacks, which killed 191 people and were claimed in the name of al-Qaeda in Europe.
The commission's secretary-general, Mansur Escudero, urged others of their faith worldwide to denounce the al-Qaeda. Escudero said that the group had consulted with Muslim leaders in other countries, such as Morocco – home to most of the jailed suspects in the atrocities – Algeria and Libya, and had their support also. He has called upon all Muslim leaders to now also condemn the terrorists publicly.
Crimes
The commission, whose elected leaders represent the Muslim community in talks with the government, said the Koran barred Muslims from committing crimes against innocent people.
"We declare ... that Usama bin Laden and his al-Qaeda organisation, responsible for the horrendous crimes against innocent people who were despicably murdered in the 11 March terrorist attack in Madrid, are outside the parameters of Islam," the commission said. The fatwa said that according to the Koran “the terrorist acts of Osama bin Laden and his organization al-Qaeda … are totally banned and must be roundly condemned as against Islam.”
It added: “Inasmuch as Osama bin Laden and his organization defend terrorism as legal and try to base it on the Koran --- they are committing the crime of ‘istihlal’ and thus become apostates that should not be considered Muslims or treated as such.” The term “istihlal” refers to the act of making up one’s own laws.
Muslim fear
"The reaction of some Muslims has been: 'How do you dare to do this (fatwa)? You are putting your lives in danger'," Escudero said.
"But so far, I have not seen any Muslim who opposed it. Some might question our authority to do it, but no one has denied our arguments."
Muhammad Chaib, head of the Ibn Batuta Socio-Cultural Association for Muslim immigrants, supported the condemnation of Bin Laden but said the Muslim community's priority should be integrating into Spanish society, not making political statements.
Islam does not justify terrorism
Most of the 42 suspects still held in the investigation into the bombings are of Moroccan origin. Investigators say they were committed to fighting the West.
"The terrorist acts of Usama bin Laden and his al-Qaeda organisation ... which result in the death of civilians, such as women and children ... are totally prohibited and are the object of strong condemnation within Islam," the commission said in a statement quoting extensively from religious texts.
It issued its fatwa as Spaniards paid tribute to the passengers killed on four Madrid commuter trains a year ago.
At Madrid's main mosque, worshippers observed a minute's silence before Friday prayers, and Morocco's King Muhammad attended a wreath-laying ceremony in honour of the victims.
Muslim isolation
Some one million Muslims live in Spain and many have felt increasingly isolated as a result of the 11 March 2004 bombings.
Twelve Muslims were killed in the attacks.
"If we analyse actions, we see they have only caused harm and pain to the Muslim world," said Escudero, a Spaniard who converted to Islam in the 1970s. "Some Muslims even wonder whether he is an invention of the enemies of Islam."
Bin Laden's stated aim of recovering al Andalus - the Arabic term for Spain during the nearly 800 years parts of the country were under Moorish rule - "totally contradicts God's will", the commission added.
"If there are reprisals from this group or any other, then I am willing to accept them. I am not afraid," said Escudero.
"I only fear God, and He is the best protector."
[B]International Review

http://www.int-review.org/terr42a.html

[Larrymc]

Meh.. The forum isn't big enough to post it all. And this doesn't include countless Friday sermons I've sat through condemning AQ and the like.


http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php


http://www.int-review.org/terr42a.htmlSo all of these made the main stream media, because i haven't seen them surly i would have caught some of them. a lot are server not found, some are from the UK and we know how that's going?

[jafar00]

So all of these made the main stream media, because i haven't seen them surly i would have caught some of them. a lot are server not found, some are from the UK and we know how that's going?

That's the problem. Mainstream media ignored them.

[Larrymc]

That's the problem. Mainstream media ignored them.I could buy that if someone else was in office.

[jafar00]

I could buy that if someone else was in office.

So how do you explain it? You hear plenty from AQ, the Taliban, Anjem Choudary types and others who are considered to be enemies of Islam, yet nothing in mainstream media from Muslims speaking out against them.

[Larrymc]

So how do you explain it? You hear plenty from AQ, the Taliban, Anjem Choudary types and others who are considered to be enemies of Islam, yet nothing in mainstream media from Muslims speaking out against them.That seems to be the quiston, i can't imagine they can't coverage if they want it, with Obama in the White House. I think the problem is the Qur'an you can find a lot of passages that seem to promote piece, while on the other side can find just as many that promote violence against none believers, if its that confusing to Muslims, what is the rest of the world supposed to make of it. the only difference seems to be what you decide to believe, that the violent parts or not valid, or they are Vidal,

[Gaffer]

The very first one I saw was CAIR. The hezbo financing charity. I didn't look closely from there on.

[jafar00]

That seems to be the quiston, i can't imagine they can't coverage if they want it, with Obama in the White House. I think the problem is the Qur'an you can find a lot of passages that seem to promote piece, while on the other side can find just as many that promote violence against none believers, if its that confusing to Muslims, what is the rest of the world supposed to make of it. the only difference seems to be what you decide to believe, that the violent parts or not valid, or they are Vidal,

As a native English speaker I can see what you are getting at. Some verses can seem belligerent at face value, but when you learn a bit more about them, the history, the context, you can understand what they mean and that the verses (and I can guess which ones you mean) are for a particular time in history that has long gone.


The very first one I saw was CAIR. The hezbo financing charity. I didn't look closely from there on.

Therein is the problem. You just won't listen to us no matter how loud we scream.

[Gaffer]

p
As a native English speaker I can see what you are getting at. Some verses can seem belligerent at face value, but when you learn a bit more about them, the history, the context, you can understand what they mean and that the verses (and I can guess which ones you mean) are for a particular time in history that has long gone.



Therein is the problem. You just won't listen to us no matter how loud we scream.

The time in history that is long gone is what is inspiring muslims today. And when the very first group on the list is CAIR then I question all the others no matter how legitimate they might be. CAIR is a terrorist supporting organization, proven in court. And they scream a lot. Credibility has to be earned and in ten years I've seen nothing credible out of islam.

[Drummond]

This killing has nothing to do with Islam. I hope you still have the death penalty there in the US because this scum would deserve it.

No. 'Of course not' ...

http://www.examiner.com/article/muslim-who-beheaded-two-men-arraigned-new-jersey


A man described as a lone-wolf, radical Islamist was arraigned yesterday with two counts of murder and two counts of desecration of human remains, according to a New Jersey law enforcement official.

Sergeant Peter O'Donnell said that detectives from the New Jersey State Police, working with the Atlantic County Prosecutor’s Office and the United States Marshals Service, arrested Yusuf Ibrahim, a resident of Jersey City, N.J., earlier this month in the nearby city of Bayonne.


The 28-year-old man allegedly murdered two Jersey City men whose remains were discovered behind a home in Buena Vista, N.J.


Detectives from the Troop A Criminal Investigation Office responded to a report of suspicious activity in Buena Vista Township. Upon arrival, detectives from Buena Vista Station obtained permission to search a wooded area behind the residence. While searching in the wooded area, an area of disturbed dirt was located approximately 20 yards into the woods by cadaver dogs.


Armed with a search warrant, detectives from the Major Crime Unit, Criminal Investigation Office, and Crime Scene Unit continued the search of the disturbed area. During an excavation of the area, two male bodies were discovered without their heads or hands attached. Both bodies seem to have suffered a single gunshot wound to the chest. A short time later, a New Jersey State Police canine located another burial site which uncovered two human heads and four human hands.

[jafar00]

The time in history that is long gone is what is inspiring muslims today.

What inspired the OP?

[Drummond]

Therein is the problem. You just won't listen to us no matter how loud we scream.

... like, how 'moderate Muslims' kept 'screaming' to protest against Abu Hamza's YEARS OF PREACHING HIS JIHADIST MESSAGES, AT THE FINSBURY PARK MOSQUE ?

Or, to be more accurate, they DIDN'T SCREAM AT ALL. That 'silent majority' kept remarkably silent. FOR YEARS.

No, Jafar. Muslims move to distance their communities from terrorist acts, and only AFTER the terrorism has happened. Why ? Because they don't want reprisals, and it's what politicians can buy into.

How many cases, Jafar, can you cite to me of a Muslim community alerting the authorities to a terrorist in their midst ? How many have been prepared to work to neutralise such savagery, BEFORE it can happen ?

There's my challenge, Jafar. Cite us such cases.

[jafar00]

No. 'Of course not' ...

http://www.examiner.com/article/muslim-who-beheaded-two-men-arraigned-new-jersey


... like, how 'moderate Muslims' kept 'screaming' to protest against Abu Hamza's [B]YEARS OF PREACHING HIS JIHADIST MESSAGES, AT THE FINSBURY PARK MOSQUE ?

Or, to be more accurate, they DIDN'T SCREAM AT ALL. That 'silent majority' kept remarkably silent. FOR YEARS.

No, Jafar. Muslims move to distance their communities from terrorist acts, and only AFTER the terrorism has happened. Why ? Because they don't want reprisals, and it's what politicians can buy into.

How many cases, Jafar, can you cite to me of a Muslim community alerting the authorities to a terrorist in their midst ? How many have been prepared to work to neutralise such savagery, BEFORE it can happen ?

There's my challenge, Jafar. Cite us such cases.

I was warned away from Finsbury Park Mosque by more than one Imam in London when I was there. Abu Hamza was universally viewed as a Wahhabi preaching something that was far from Islam. I have no idea what happened with that after I left the UK. I'm quite sure someone alerted the police about Abu Hamza but nothing was done about him. I am of the opinion Abu Hamza, Ajem Choudary and the like are working with MI5 to sow division among Muslims and to keep us preoccupied with defending the faith against them instead of spreading the message of Islam to you. Through them and the amazing amount of publicity they get, all you are getting is the message that Islam is a terrorist ideology instead of the truth. Your heart has been closed to the truth after seeing murderers claiming to be acting in the name of Islam and it has been protrayed as such in the media, yet really acting contrary to Islamic teachings.

[Voted4Reagan]

all you are getting is the message that Islam is a terrorist ideology instead of the truth.

how is it a lie when 95+% of the worlds terror attacks are comitted by Muslims/Islamists?

please... tell us Jafar... the numbers dont lie....

[jafar00]

how is it a lie when 95+% of the worlds terror attacks are comitted by Muslims/Islamists?

please... tell us Jafar... the numbers dont lie....

If they are doing things that are not Islamic how can you call terrorists, "Islamic"?

[Voted4Reagan]

If they are doing things that are not Islamic how can you call terrorists, "Islamic"?

They arent doing things that arent ISLAMIC.

They are doing things that run contrary to all civilized human nature in the Name of ALLAH, The Prophet and Islam.

The acts dont negate them being Muslim...

You cant play your denial game anymore Jafar... They are Muslims doing bad things in the name of Islam.

[jafar00]

They arent doing things that arent ISLAMIC.

They are doing things that run contrary to all civilized human nature in the Name of ALLAH, The Prophet and Islam.

The acts dont negate them being Muslim...

You cant play your denial game anymore Jafar... They are Muslims doing bad things in the name of Islam.

Yes, they are doing things that are unislamic. Muslims are as capable of breaking the law as much as non Muslims are.

And I agree with you. These things are inhuman, uncivilised and break the laws of both God and man.

[Drummond]

I was warned away from Finsbury Park Mosque by more than one Imam in London when I was there.

Interesting ... if true.


Abu Hamza was universally viewed as a Wahhabi preaching something that was far from Islam.

Granted that the media agreed that his preaching was 'extremist' ... which is the same standard way they have of describing ANY MUSLIM not behaving peacefully !! But, was he really so unrecognisable as a bona fide Muslim figure ??

See, for example ...

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2006/jan/12/terrorism.islam


The Islamic cleric Sheikh Abu Hamza kept a 10-volume terrorism manual in his west London home which detailed how to make explosives, fire guns, carry out assassinations and stage ambushes, the Old Bailey was told yesterday. The books, called the Encyclopedia of Afghan Jihad, bore a dedication to Osama bin Laden, among others, and suggested Big Ben and the Eiffel Tower as targets for attack, the prosecution alleged.

The jury were told that police made the find of what the prosecution claim is a "blueprint" for terror when Mr Hamza was arrested in May 2004. The manual urged that plans "should be laid out" to hit buildings such skyscrapers, ports, airports, nuclear plants and football stadiums, the prosecution said, and it talked about attacking large congregations of people at Christmas.

The former cleric at the Finsbury Park mosque in north London faces nine counts of soliciting murder, four charges of inciting racial hatred and one charge of owning a document useful to a person committing or preparing acts of terrorism. He denies all charges.

Opening the prosecution, David Perry said Mr Hamza had used his position as a spiritual leader within the Muslim community to preach hate and encourage the murder of non-believers, and particularly Jews. The cleric allegedly told worshippers at mosques, and audiences at private meetings, that violent jihad was their duty, praising suicide bombers as martyrs and urging followers to terrorise those Mr Hamza branded enemies of Islam.

Quite a charming individual !! Nonetheless, EVEN the Guardian, a Leftie paper, goes some way to telling this as it was. Hamza is a confirmed MUSLIM, an ex-cleric who preached IN the Finsbury Park mosque, and they confirm his status as A MUSLIM SPIRITUAL LEADER. Yet, here we have you, Jafar, trying to distance him from Islam itself !

I'm sure, if I tried, I could find various other media outlets similarly willing to confirm him as representative of Islam, and not 'removed' from it !!


I have no idea what happened with that after I left the UK. I'm quite sure someone alerted the police about Abu Hamza but nothing was done about him.

Indeed ? Well, something I am sure of is that his later sermons OUTSIDE the mosque were conducted with a police presence in evidence, so someone tipping them off doesn't really make sense. What evidence do you have that this ever happened, and that it was a 'peaceloving Muslim' who was responsible ?

What ultimately happened .. after an outrageous amount of time with the police sitting on their hands, doing nothing .. is that Hamza was arrested. Ultimately, because America wanted to extradite him to US territory to stand trial on terrorist charges of their own, Britain agreed to release him to US custody. See ..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Hamza_al-Masri#Arrest.2C_charges_and_imprisonment


On 26 August 2004, Hamza was arrested by British police under section 41 of the Terrorism Act 2000 which covers the instigation of acts of terrorism. Charges against him were dropped on 31 August 2004, but he was kept in jail whilst a U.S. extradition case was developed and British authorities drew up further criminal charges of their own. Almost two months later, on 19 October 2004, Hamza was charged with 15 offences under the provisions of various British statutes, including encouraging the murder of non-Muslims, and intent to stir up racial hatred. The trial commenced on 5 July 2005, but was adjourned, and not resumed until 9 January 2006.

On 7 February 2006, he was found guilty on eleven charges and not guilty on four:

Guilty of six charges of soliciting murder under the Offences against the Person Act 1861; not guilty on three further such charges.

Guilty of three charges related to "using threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour with intent to stir up racial hatred, [contrary to section 18 (1) of the Public Order Act 1986]", not guilty on one further such charge.

Guilty of one charge of "possession of threatening, abusive or insulting recordings of sound, with intent to stir up racial hatred [contrary to section 23 of the Public Order Act 1986]".

Guilty of one charge of "possessing a document containing information likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism" under the Terrorism Act 2000. This charge under the Terrorism Act of 2000 related to his possession of an Encyclopedia of Afghan Jihad, an Al Qaeda Handbook and other propaganda materials produced by Abu Hamza.

In sentencing, Mr Justice Hughes said Hamza had "helped to create an atmosphere in which to kill has become regarded by some as not only a legitimate course but a moral and religious duty in pursuit of perceived justice." Abu Hamza was sentenced to seven years' imprisonment.

So tell me this, Jafar. If Hamza was such a 'marginal' figure, if he was 'so unrepresentative of Islam', how come the judge concluded that Hamza had such an ability to influence any of his audience ??

Was Mr Justice Hughes LYING, Jafar ???

I'm including this extra quote from my link for the sake of Americans who may find his extradition of interest ...


On 27 May 2004, Hamza was detained on remand (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_suspect) by British authorities and appeared before magistrates (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magistrate) at the start of a process to try to extradite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extradition) him to the United States. Yemen also requested his extradition. The United States wanted Hamza to stand trial for 11 counts relating to the taking of 16 hostages in Yemen in 1998, advocating violent jihad in Afghanistan in 2001, supporting James Ujaama (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Ujaama) in an attempt to establish a terrorist training camp in late 1999 and early 2000 near Bly (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bly,_Oregon), Oregon and of providing aid to al-Qaeda.Ujaama is a U.S. citizen who had met Abu Hamza in England in 1999 and was indicted in the U.S. for providing aid to al-Qaeda, attempting to establish a terrorist training camp, and for running a Web site advocating global violent jihad.

Abu Hamza was in Britain throughout the relevant period. Hamza could not face the death penalty if extradited to the United States because the UK is a signatory to the European Convention on Human Rights (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Convention_of_Human_Rights) (ECHR). On 15 November 2007, British courts gave permission for Hamza's extradition to the U.S. Abu Hamza appealed against this decision to the European Court of Human Rights (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Court_of_Human_Rights) (ECtHR), Europe's highest court. In the meantime, Hamza was kept in prison after the completion of his sentence.

On 8 July 2010, the ECtHR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECtHR) temporarily blocked Hamza's extradition to the United States to face terrorism charges until the court was satisfied that Abu Hamza would not be treated inhumanely. The court based its judgement on ECHR which applies to British law. It is an absolute prohibition for a signatory to the ECHR to remove anyone to a place where they would be subject to inhumane or degrading treatment. In past cases, the ECtHR has prevented the UK from deporting suspected foreign terrorists to places where they might be tortured. In Hamza's case, this has been extended to refusing extradition to a country where he might be jailed for life and where the prison regime is judged to be too harsh. The ruling would apply to any extradition to the U.S. unless American authorities can guarantee in advance that the suspect will not be incarcerated in a so-called supermax (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermax) prison. The court said there should be further legal argument on whether life without parole would be a breach of human rights. The court asked for fresh submissions on whether Hamza, and other prisoners awaiting extradition, would face inhumane treatment in the U.S. if they were sent there to stand trial.

On 24 September 2012, the court said he could be extradited to the U.S. to face terrorism charges ...

So, America got its way, and Hamza is, today, in American custody. However, Left-wing influences in Europe, via the ECHR, did what they do best, and worked to make sure that Hamza couldn't possibly be subject to any punishment that 'offended them'.


I am of the opinion Abu Hamza, Ajem Choudary and the like are working with MI5 to sow division among Muslims and to keep us preoccupied with defending the faith against them instead of spreading the message of Islam to you.

So, Jafar, the British authorities ACTUALLY worked with the US to get Hamza extradited to the US on terrorism charges, very serious charges as you can see, where in so-called 'reality', he was 'just an MI5 stooge' ???

DON'T BE RIDICULOUS !!

You'll go to any lengths to sanitise Islam, won't you, Jafar, no matter how outlandish the theory you dream up !! FACE FACTS, and ADMIT what these Islamic clerics, Sharia judges, etc etc are REALLY ALL ABOUT .. IT'S STARING YOU IN THE FACE !!


Through them and the amazing amount of publicity they get, all you are getting is the message that Islam is a terrorist ideology instead of the truth. Your heart has been closed to the truth after seeing murderers claiming to be acting in the name of Islam and it has been protrayed as such in the media, yet really acting contrary to Islamic teachings.

So tell me of how 'peaceloving' HAMAS really is !! The report I posted, twice, around 24 hours ago, of Hamas's efforts to use Gazan TV which they control, to brainwash young children into becoming terrorists ... that's ALL A LIE, IS IT ??

I challenge you to face the whole truth about Hamas, Jafar. Accept it, be disgusted by it, resolve to henceforth NEVER support that scum in ANY WAY WHATEVER.

And pledge, to all of us here on this forum, that you are no longer any supporter of theirs, that what they do, and all they represent - TERRORIST BARBARIANISM AT ITS WORST - you want nothing to do with.

What could stop you in this, Jafar ? You ARE a peaceloving Muslim .. yes ?

[Voted4Reagan]

So tell me of how 'peaceloving' HAMAS really is !! The report I posted, twice, around 24 hours ago, of Hamas's efforts to use Gazan TV which they control, to brainwash young children into becoming terrorists ... that's ALL A LIE, IS IT ??

HAMAS is a faction of the Muslim Brotherhood

Both rose out of the Fascist based pan-arab nationalism of the 1920's, 1930's,1940's.

Their basis of religious Philosophy is Nazi Germany and her "Final Solution" which Arabs collaborated with enthusiastically.

This mix of Fascism and Nazi Ideology has produced a theology based entirely on violence and Hatred.

The Muslim Brotherhood today burned 3 Coptic Christian Churches in Cairo,.

Jafar says this is against all the foundations of the teachings of Islam... Yet he doesn't condemn the groups who commit the acts. His support of HAMAS is in effect Support of the Muslim Brotherhood.

This is how he hides his hypocrisy. He condemns the individual and not the people who indoctrinated the individual.

This allows the cycle of violence to go on... If he desires peace he must condemn those that do not seek it.

HAMAS and the Muslim Brotherhood do not want peace. Their charters say as much.