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Jeff
08-13-2013, 07:59 AM
This helps no one not the student for sure it destroys the teacher and his/her ability to teach the class and it hurts the students that are there to learn



In many major cities, black academic performance has actually gotten worse since Obama took office. We have also seen the dramatic nationwide rise of black teen mob violence under the Obama administration.
On July 26th Obama signed an executive order titled the “African American Education Initiative.” The order essentially gives a green light for black students to misbehave in public schools. In two places, Obama’s executive order calls on schools to reduce the number disciplinary actions taken against blacks students. The order specifically calls on schools too “not rely on methods that result in disparate use of disciplinary tools.”
To comply, public schools would have to engage in a racial quota system of discipline. The executive order will create a new Federal bureaucracy to pressure school systems to comply with the president’s demands. The executive order makes no mention of any effort to get black students to improve behavior.
There is a reason why blacks are more likely to be disciplined in school. Black students are more likely to misbehave. The U.S. Department of Justice’s Bureau of Justice Statistics reports that there is a huge crime rate disparity between blacks and other racial groups.

http://www.mrconservative.com/2013/08/22539-obama-tells-schools-not-to-discipline-black-students-for-bad-behavior/

Marcus Aurelius
08-13-2013, 08:22 AM
Here is a link to the executive order.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/07/26/executive-order-white-house-initiative-educational-excellence-african-am

I read the entire order, and I do not see this... 'The order essentially gives a green light for black students to misbehave in public schools. In two places, Obama’s executive order calls on schools to reduce the number disciplinary actions taken against blacks students.' ...anywhere.

fj1200
08-13-2013, 08:31 AM
This helps no one not the student for sure it destroys the teacher and his/her ability to teach the class and it hurts the students that are there to learn


The order specifically calls on schools too “not rely on methods that result in disparate use of disciplinary tools.”

http://www.mrconservative.com/2013/08/22539-obama-tells-schools-not-to-discipline-black-students-for-bad-behavior/




I'm not sure it means what you think it means. Do you think the whole context means the same as a partial sentence?


(b) Mission and Functions....
(3) To help expand educational opportunities, improve educational outcomes, and deliver a complete and competitive education for all African Americans, the Initiative shall, consistent with applicable law, promote, encourage, and undertake efforts designed to meet the following objectives:
...
(vi) reducing the dropout rate of African American students and helping African American students graduate from high school prepared for college and a career, in part by promoting a positive school climate that does not rely on methods that result in disparate use of disciplinary tools, and by supporting successful and innovative dropout prevention and recovery strategies that better engage African American youths in their learning, help them catch up academically, and provide those who have left the educational system with pathways to reentry;

Jeff
08-13-2013, 11:37 AM
I'm not sure it means what you think it means. Do you think the whole context means the same as a partial sentence?

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No I don't but I think it is ridicules to single out any group of ids and give them any more freedoms than any others, and the way I understand it , it says to Obama’s executive order calls on schools to reduce the number disciplinary actions taken against blacks students.And again if that is done then exactly what I said will happen

Marcus Aurelius
08-13-2013, 11:44 AM
No I don't but I think it is ridicules to single out any group of ids and give them any more freedoms than any others, and the way I understand it , it says to Obama’s executive order calls on schools to reduce the number disciplinary actions taken against blacks students.And again if that is done then exactly what I said will happen

It really doesn't say that though.


...in part by promoting a positive school climate that does not rely on methods that result in disparate use of disciplinary tools,

It's talking about schools methods. If the schools 'methods' result in a 'disparate use of disciplinary tools', that's an issue. However, if it simply a 'population' based issue that results in a 'disparate use of disciplinary tools', the EO doesn't address that.

I really do not see anyplace in the EO that specifically calls for a reduction in disciplinary actions against African American students.

Thunderknuckles
08-13-2013, 11:51 AM
Thank you FJ for the clarification. It certainly does not sound as ominous as mrconservative.com says.
Even so, I understand Jeff's concern. I would have been more comfortable had that partial sentence been left out entirely.
It doesn't really help the whole context of the order and can be misinterpreted as we have seen here.

Overall, I think the order is positive in its intent but don't like that it singles out African American minorities only.

Jeff
08-13-2013, 11:51 AM
It really doesn't say that though.



It's talking about schools methods. If the schools 'methods' result in a 'disparate use of disciplinary tools', that's an issue. However, if it simply a 'population' based issue that results in a 'disparate use of disciplinary tools', the EO doesn't address that.

I really do not see anyplace in the EO that specifically calls for a reduction in disciplinary actions against African American students.

Marcus if I have read it wrong and this is for all kids that is different if it is simply a different wau of discipline for any Child in school it may work time will tell, I know we have a couple teachers on here maybe they can chime in but if it is for Blacks only no matter what I read or how they plan to change it it is wrong, it goes along the lines of Black children don't need to score as high as white kids, hell there are plenty of very smart blacks and all kids can do it if they apply themselves but what Obama did here with the testing to me that is racist against blacks

Marcus I see what you are saying I am reading/ glancing through it now but I am confused here last week Obama made it where a black student doesn't have to score as high as a white or Hispanic ( If I remember correctly ) and then the Hispanic didn't need to score as high as the white child but yet in this order after all the B.S. of African Americans have done so much for this country ( yes that makes me made as hell because there where many different people that made this country grow not just Blacks ) but then he goes on to say

However, substantial obstacles to equal educational opportunity still remain in America's educational system. African Americans lack equal access to highly effective teachers and principals, safe schools, and challenging college-preparatory classes, and they disproportionately experience school discipline and referrals to special education. African American student achievement not only lags behind that of their domestic peers by an average of two grade levels, but also behind students in almost every other developed nation. Over a third of African American students do not graduate from high school on time with a regular high school diploma, and only four percent of African American high school graduates interested in college are college-ready across a range of subjects. An even greater number of African American males do not graduate with a regular high school diploma, and African American males also experience disparate rates of incarceration.

Why if he believes this does he want them to be able to get by with lower test scores ? I am confused here ( but that is nothing new ) I must say this particular paragraph looks pretty racist to me

Gaffer
08-13-2013, 12:00 PM
Why is a president writing EO's telling schools how to handle discipline. That is the business of the individual schools and not the god damn president. And creating another agency to deal with this? Must have another donater that's wants a cushy high paying position.

This is more federal meddling in things the feds have no business in.

Jeff
08-13-2013, 12:11 PM
Why is a president writing EO's telling schools how to handle discipline. That is the business of the individual schools and not the god damn president. And creating another agency to deal with this? Must have another donater that's wants a cushy high paying position.

This is more federal meddling in things the feds have no business in.

Gaffer honestly the paragraph I just posted from this article looks like a book Al Sharpton might of wrote and the last line

*and African American males also experience disparate rates of incarceration*

Sorry but statistics show more blacks are in jail for a reason , and if I felt this was a way to help keep them out I would be all for it but I don't this looks like more of a way to show his Blackness and look I will be the first to admit I may be wrong I didn't read word for word , when I see the Black colleges and realize if we had a white college it would be racist I simply can't keep reading

fj1200
08-13-2013, 12:55 PM
... but then he goes on to say


However, substantial obstacles to equal educational opportunity still remain in America's educational system. African Americans lack equal access to highly effective teachers and principals, safe schools, and challenging college-preparatory classes, and they disproportionately experience school discipline and referrals to special education. African American student achievement not only lags behind that of their domestic peers by an average of two grade levels, but also behind students in almost every other developed nation. Over a third of African American students do not graduate from high school on time with a regular high school diploma, and only four percent of African American high school graduates interested in college are college-ready across a range of subjects. An even greater number of African American males do not graduate with a regular high school diploma, and African American males also experience disparate rates of incarceration.

Why if he believes this does he want them to be able to get by with lower test scores ? I am confused here ( but that is nothing new ) I must say this particular paragraph looks pretty racist to me

Unfortunately those are mostly true statements; Would be better if he couched it in socio-economic terms but it is what it is. The other unfortunate aspect is that his solution is larger government and not competition in local schools so it's likely doomed to failure, but then again we have people complain about anything BO does even if it is along the lines of something conservatives would generally support, i.e. charter schools.

Kathianne
08-13-2013, 05:25 PM
I'm not sure it means what you think it means. Do you think the whole context means the same as a partial sentence?

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I know you were not responding to me, but I must ask YOU what YOU think that means? I'm not saying you said anything wrong, I'm curious about what you meant.

Kathianne
08-13-2013, 05:27 PM
Why is a president writing EO's telling schools how to handle discipline. That is the business of the individual schools and not the god damn president. And creating another agency to deal with this? Must have another donater that's wants a cushy high paying position.

This is more federal meddling in things the feds have no business in.

Thank you! A voice of sanity!

aboutime
08-13-2013, 06:36 PM
Actually. After reading that piece of trash from Obama. He is violating the law, the constitution, and every civil right possible for All Americans when he specifies One Race in his Executive order, while leaving other races out.

The NAACP should be all over him like STINK ON CRAP for this.

And, I have little doubt. It will be challenged, and possibly fall in front of the SCOTUS, who should also see it as DISCRIMINATION at it's highest levels.

Kathianne
08-13-2013, 07:35 PM
Actually. After reading that piece of trash from Obama. He is violating the law, the constitution, and every civil right possible for All Americans when he specifies One Race in his Executive order, while leaving other races out.

The NAACP should be all over him like STINK ON CRAP for this.

And, I have little doubt. It will be challenged, and possibly fall in front of the SCOTUS, who should also see it as DISCRIMINATION at it's highest levels.

I don't know about the SCOTUS stuff, but it's very clear the President of United States of America, has chosen to identify one race regarding change. That may have been reasonable 40, 50,60 years ago; certainly 140 years ago, but today? Not so much. Seems more like a conflict of interest.

Larrymc
08-13-2013, 07:47 PM
This helps no one not the student for sure it destroys the teacher and his/her ability to teach the class and it hurts the students that are there to learn


In many major cities, black academic performance has actually gotten worse since Obama took office. We have also seen the dramatic nationwide rise of black teen mob violence under the Obama administration.
On July 26th Obama signed an executive order titled the “African American Education Initiative.” The order essentially gives a green light for black students to misbehave in public schools. In two places, Obama’s executive order calls on schools to reduce the number disciplinary actions taken against blacks students. The order specifically calls on schools too “not rely on methods that result in disparate use of disciplinary tools.”
To comply, public schools would have to engage in a racial quota system of discipline. The executive order will create a new Federal bureaucracy to pressure school systems to comply with the president’s demands. The executive order makes no mention of any effort to get black students to improve behavior.
There is a reason why blacks are more likely to be disciplined in school. Black students are more likely to misbehave. The U.S. Department of Justice’s Bureau of Justice Statistics reports that there is a huge crime rate disparity between blacks and other racial groups.

http://www.mrconservative.com/2013/08/22539-obama-tells-schools-not-to-discipline-black-students-for-bad-behavior/


Dose anyone wonder why these folks fell so entitled?

Missileman
08-13-2013, 08:31 PM
I don't know about the SCOTUS stuff, but it's very clear the President of United States of America, has chosen to identify one race regarding change. That may have been reasonable 40, 50,60 years ago; certainly 140 years ago, but today? Not so much. Seems more like a conflict of interest.

There could only be a conflict of interest if he actually gave a damn about the welfare of anyone other than himself. He's courting the blacks for congressional votes to aid in HIS interests, nothing more.

fj1200
08-14-2013, 05:34 AM
And, I have little doubt. It will be challenged, and possibly fall in front of the SCOTUS, who should also see it as DISCRIMINATION at it's highest levels.

It won't be challenged, EOs hardly ever are especially when based on existing law which this seems to be.


(3) To help expand educational opportunities, improve educational outcomes, and deliver a complete and competitive education for all African Americans, the Initiative shall, consistent with applicable law, promote, encourage, and undertake efforts designed to meet the following objectives:


I know you were not responding to me, but I must ask YOU what YOU think that means? I'm not saying you said anything wrong, I'm curious about what you meant.

I'm no expert on disparate impact but it says to me that they shouldn't be using disciplinary actions that automatically result in blacks being subject to higher levels of discipline. If you only discipline the loud black kid and not the loud white kid then you're actions resulted in a disparate use.


I don't know about the SCOTUS stuff, but it's very clear the President of United States of America, has chosen to identify one race regarding change. That may have been reasonable 40, 50,60 years ago; certainly 140 years ago, but today? Not so much. Seems more like a conflict of interest.

Do you agree that black kids suffer from lower results in schools then the overall population? I'll assume yes for the moment which suggests it's pretty much a classic disparate impact argument. As I've said before it's likely doomed to fail but it does give background from which to base an initiative.

Kathianne
08-14-2013, 06:52 AM
It won't be challenged, EOs hardly ever are especially when based on existing law which this seems to be.





I'm no expert on disparate impact but it says to me that they shouldn't be using disciplinary actions that automatically result in blacks being subject to higher levels of discipline. If you only discipline the loud black kid and not the loud white kid then you're actions resulted in a disparate use.



Do you agree that black kids suffer from lower results in schools then the overall population? I'll assume yes for the moment which suggests it's pretty much a classic disparate impact argument. As I've said before it's likely doomed to fail but it does give background from which to base an initiative.

Are you sure that is the 'disparate discipline' is on the level of two kids acting the same and the black kid is punished to a greater degree? That I would find unlikely, at least rare. That would take a principal at least, superintendent more likely, to leave their district wide open to fed coming in via the courts with consent decree. That would be the case for racism, without a doubt. Further, you'd have to find a wide range of this type of behaviors across integrated districts, and across socioeconomic examples. That's again, very unlikely.

More intuitive it seems to me, that by the EO, Obama is effectively blaming the results of the 50 years of spiraling down of tests results with the rocketing dropout rates, on the schools. Perhaps most ironically that the leading precursor to the poor results would be the Federal Government itself and its 'War On Poverty." For his use, Obama is laying out more arguments to divide this country along racial lines.

fj1200
08-14-2013, 07:17 AM
Are you sure that is the 'disparate discipline' is on the level of two kids acting the same and the black kid is punished to a greater degree? That I would find unlikely, at least rare. That would take a principal at least, superintendent more likely, to leave their district wide open to fed coming in via the courts with consent decree. That would be the case for racism, without a doubt. Further, you'd have to find a wide range of this type of behaviors across integrated districts, and across socioeconomic examples. That's again, very unlikely.

You could very well be right and admittedly I'm not an expert on disparate impact. Just though that it misses the point to scream about half of a sentence when there is so much more to point out that he is wrong about.

Obama's Educational Excellence Initiative (http://www.creators.com/conservative/walter-williams/obama-s-educational-excellence-initiative.html)

More intuitive it seems to me, that by the EO, Obama is effectively blaming the results of the 50 years of spiraling down of tests results with the rocketing dropout rates, on the schools. Perhaps most ironically that the leading precursor to the poor results would be the Federal Government itself and its 'War On Poverty." For his use, Obama is laying out more arguments to divide this country along racial lines.

Without a doubt BO is not going to focus on the core of the issue because that would expose the error of his ideology, conservatives shouldn't have to focus on his skin color to win that debate.

Kathianne
08-14-2013, 08:05 AM
You could very well be right and admittedly I'm not an expert on disparate impact. Just though that it misses the point to scream about half of a sentence when there is so much more to point out that he is wrong about.

Obama's Educational Excellence Initiative (http://www.creators.com/conservative/walter-williams/obama-s-educational-excellence-initiative.html)




Without a doubt BO is not going to focus on the core of the issue because that would expose the error of his ideology, conservatives shouldn't have to focus on his skin color to win that debate.

I wasn't focusing on HIS skin color, I've no doubt that a Teddy Kennedy would have been more than happy to have made the same argument.

More to the point, it is HE who has been making nearly everything about race, others are reacting to that. Whether it's Trayvon, the professor and the 'white cop', now dysfunction in schools, housing foreclosures, Detroit, SNAP, etc.

When it's not 'race' per se, it's Muslims, 'working folks', etc. Divide and conquer is BO's MO.

fj1200
08-14-2013, 08:14 AM
I wasn't focusing on HIS skin color, I've no doubt that a Teddy Kennedy would have been more than happy to have made the same argument.

More to the point, it is HE who has been making nearly everything about race, others are reacting to that. Whether it's Trayvon, the professor and the 'white cop', now dysfunction in schools, housing foreclosures, Detroit, SNAP, etc.

When it's not 'race' per se, it's Muslims, 'working folks', etc. Divide and conquer is BO's MO.

I didn't say you, I said conservatives, although I should have said "conservatives." ;)

I'm not sure if you think we disagree in the main because we don't really. Just that conservative shouldn't help him along in his quest.

Jeff
08-14-2013, 08:28 AM
I wasn't focusing on HIS skin color, I've no doubt that a Teddy Kennedy would have been more than happy to have made the same argument.

More to the point, it is HE who has been making nearly everything about race, others are reacting to that. Whether it's Trayvon, the professor and the 'white cop', now dysfunction in schools, housing foreclosures, Detroit, SNAP, etc.

When it's not 'race' per se, it's Muslims, 'working folks', etc. Divide and conquer is BO's MO.

Kat focus on his skin color because that is what this all about , Obama wants to show his blackness, we must remember his new threat is racisim will get much worse if he doesn't get his way and he is getting his army in line

Kathianne
08-14-2013, 08:48 AM
Kat focus on his skin color because that is what this all about , Obama wants to show his blackness, we must remember his new threat is racisim will get much worse if he doesn't get his way and he is getting his army in line

I don't agree that it's his 'skin color' that's just one of the 'excuses' he uses to divide. It's about him alright, but others that agree with his ideas, at least those he's made evident, would gladly take up the same arguments.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
08-14-2013, 09:54 AM
I saw this plan put into action many decades ago. When blacks were first integrated into our schools I was in high school. They allowed them in and the first thing the black guys tried was to totally dominate the white boys. They even tried to dominate the teachers too. They also tried that touchy feely thing with the white girls too. My sister slapped one such scum so hard he fell back over the desk. He had tried to pinch her on her butt.. We had many fights that year and for the next two years . It only slowed down when the school admin stopped coddling the blacks as they had been doing the first two years. They respect only brute force(same as the muslims) and that means hard discipline is a must with them. If that sounds racist then I say , tuff shat it's reality. The Liberal philosophy of denying reality has harmed this nation far more than all its wars combined. Its an evil concept which promotes idiocy. The truth is that blacks need more damn discipline no less! A major reason for that is so many are raised in homes with no father present. My father kept us boys in line and trust me that wasn't an easy task.. ;)Obama likely knows his crap will make it worse not better. After all , he wants massive division in this nation. As that suits his destructive purposes so very well. The Obama leftist, divide and conquer at work.-Tyr