MUSLIM ‘CHILD BRIDE’ DIES: Yemeni 8yr. old Dies of Internal Injuries After Sex with ‘

[Jeff]

This is disgusting, these people are animals ( click on the link and look at the picture of grown men with babies all dressed up to get married ) this picture I am sure is fake but it puts a picture on what these animals do. They ought to take this guy and insert something into his anus and let him bleed to death.




An eight-year-old child bride has died in Yemen of internal bleeding sustained during her wedding night after being forced to marry a man five times her age, activists have claimed. The girl, identified only as Rawan, died in the tribal area of Hardh in northwestern Yemen, which borders Saudi Arabia. Activists are now calling for the groom, who is believed to be around 40 years old, and her family to be arrested so they can face justice in the courts.



http://clashdaily.com/2013/09/muslim-child-bride-dies-yemeni-8yr-old-dies-internal-injuries-sex-husband-five-times-age/

[Marcus Aurelius]

This is disgusting, these people are animals ( click on the link and look at the picture of grown men with babies all dressed up to get married ) this picture I am sure is fake but it puts a picture on what these animals do. They ought to take this guy and insert something into his anus and let him bleed to death.




http://clashdaily.com/2013/09/muslim-child-bride-dies-yemeni-8yr-old-dies-internal-injuries-sex-husband-five-times-age/


But it's okay, because they aren't 'really Muslims' in Yemen... right, Jahil???

[Jeff]

But it's okay, because they aren't 'really Muslims' in Yemen... right, Jahil???

We all know what he will say :laugh:

[aboutime]

I know this is cruel, and a terrible idea....on the surface. But seeing that photo not only makes me sick. It makes me wish I had control of some WELL aimed DRONES that would TAKE not only the IDIOT Men out, but to save those poor young children from a life of Disgusting, Sickening life. All of them would be better off.

Any Inhuman male like those shown in the photo SHOULD be the people targeted with Beheadings.

[Marcus Aurelius]

8 years old... disgusting.

Mohammed waited until she was 9 before he raped his child bride.

[jafar00]

This is disgusting, these people are animals ( click on the link and look at the picture of grown men with babies all dressed up to get married ) this picture I am sure is fake but it puts a picture on what these animals do. They ought to take this guy and insert something into his anus and let him bleed to death.




http://clashdaily.com/2013/09/muslim-child-bride-dies-yemeni-8yr-old-dies-internal-injuries-sex-husband-five-times-age/

First, I agree he should get an eye for an eye punishment as you suggest. Second, the pic in the story is of bridesMAIDS at a mass wedding in Gaza, not of a mass child wedding in Yemen.

[Marcus Aurelius]

First, I agree he should get an eye for an eye punishment as you suggest. Second, the pic in the story is of bridesMAIDS at a mass wedding in Gaza, not of a mass child wedding in Yemen.

So, you agree Mohammed should have been punished 'eye for eye' when he raped his 9 year old child bride.

[Drummond]

So, you agree Mohammed should have been punished 'eye for eye' when he raped his 9 year old child bride.:clap::clap::clap::clap:

[Jeff]

This is disgusting, these people are animals ( click on the link and look at the picture of grown men with babies all dressed up to get married ) THIS PICTURE I AM SURE IS A FAKE but it puts a picture on what these animals do. They ought to take this guy and insert something into his anus and let him bleed to death




http://clashdaily.com/2013/09/muslim-child-bride-dies-yemeni-8yr-old-dies-internal-injuries-sex-husband-five-times-age/


First, I agree he should get an eye for an eye punishment as you suggest. Second, the pic in the story is of bridesMAIDS at a mass wedding in Gaza, not of a mass child wedding in Yemen.


I Guess Muslims don't read very well !!! I posted it right up front, but what it does do is put a picture of what is really going on to the crime , also posted in the original post

[Arbo]

Those that have sex with children should be wiped off the earth, no matter their religion.

[jafar00]

So, you agree Mohammed should have been punished 'eye for eye' when he raped his 9 year old child bride.

Mohamed (saw) raped nobody.

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=663502#post663502)
So, you agree Mohammed should have been punished 'eye for eye' when he raped his 9 year old child bride.


Mohamed (saw) raped nobody.

Your prophet was a pedophile, and raped a 9 year old CHILD. He was a sick fuck.

[Jeff]

Your prophet was a pedophile, and raped a 9 year old CHILD. He was a sick fuck.

Lets make this simple, any adult that lays down with a child of 9 is a pedophile and should be put to death, couldn't be more simple

[Kathianne]

Reuters has picked this up:

http://news.yahoo.com/child-bride-yemen-dies-internal-bleeding-wedding-night-165832059.html


Child bride in Yemen dies of internal bleeding on wedding night: activisthttp://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/FZN6924R0WZ__x92.x6.GA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9Zml0O2g9Mjc-/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/logo/reuters/d0c3eb8ca18907492a4b337b5cec5193.jpeg (http://www.reuters.com/)<cite class="byline vcard">Reuters – <abbr title="2013-09-10T16:58:32Z">18 hrs ago</abbr></cite>




<!-- START article --> <!-- yog-5u -->
<!-- google_ad_section_start --> SANAA (Reuters) - An eight-year-old Yemeni girl died of internal bleeding on her wedding night after marrying a man five times her age, a social activist and two local residents said, in a case that has caused an outcry in the media and revived debate about child brides.


Arwa Othman, head of Yemen House of Folklore and a leading rights campaigner, said the girl, identified only as Rawan, was married to a 40-year-old man late last week in the town of Meedi in Hajjah province in northwestern Yemen.


"On the wedding night and after intercourse, she suffered from bleeding and uterine rupture which caused her death," Othman told Reuters. "They took her to a clinic but the medics couldn't save her life."


Othman said authorities had not taken any action against the girl's family or her husband.


A local security official in the provincial town of Haradh denied any such incident had taken place. He did not want to be identified because he was not authorized to speak to the press.


But two Meedi residents contacted by Reuters confirmed the incident and said that local tribal chiefs had tried to cover up the incident when news first broke, warning a local journalist against covering the story.
Many poor families in Yemen marry off young daughters to save on the costs of bringing up a child and earn extra money from the dowry given to the girl.

...

[jafar00]

Lets make this simple, any adult that lays down with a child of 9 is a pedophile and should be put to death, couldn't be more simple

And what did people think of him according to the accepted customs of the 7th century? Judging by the accepted customs of the 21st century is pointless. If he was a paedophile, so were most of the Kings and Queens, and nobles of the same time period and a thousand years before and after.

[Marcus Aurelius]

And what did people think of him according to the accepted customs of the 7th century? Judging by the accepted customs of the 21st century is pointless. If he was a paedophile, so were most of the Kings and Queens, and nobles of the same time period and a thousand years before and after.

You use that same dumb ass argument time and time again, even after it's shown to be bogus. You're a coward, hiding behind a pedophile prophet who raped a child. The fact you approve of such conduct because it happened a long time ago, proves you're no better than that rapist you worship.

[Jeff]

And what did people think of him according to the accepted customs of the 7th century? Judging by the accepted customs of the 21st century is pointless. If he was a paedophile, so were most of the Kings and Queens, and nobles of the same time period and a thousand years before and after.

Here is the difference jafar ( although you are right they where all wrong ) you people are still doing it, read the headlines or read what Kat posted this didn't just happen in 7th century, it did then and yall are still doing it :poke:

[Drummond]

Mohamed (saw) raped nobody.

Your statement is just plain wrong. More than that, it's deeply offensive. Sick, in fact.

In a further post, you say ...


Judging by the accepted customs of the 21st century is pointless.

Newsflash: WE ARE IN THE 21ST CENTURY. YET, TODAY, YOU SAY THAT MOHAMED 'RAPED NOBODY'

You would've perhaps been more correct to judge that by the standards of all those centuries ago, the understanding of 'rape' was different to today. But .. this IS today, AND WE KNOW BETTER.

Or at least, we should !! I have difficulty in seeing evidence that you share those sensibilities.

Here's something for you to consider.

There are (not counting coercion, though it's relevant anyway to one of these options !!!) just two forms of sex.

1. Consenting sex, i.e, where those involved both want it, and are fully capable of understanding and appreciating WHAT they want.

2. Rape.

From this - and considering what WE KNOW IS DEFINITELY TRUE - I ask this: how on earth can a nine year old child POSSIBLY be capable of consent ???

This leaves, given an inevitable 'no' answer, with what's left. Namely, RAPE.

But, Jafar, YOU SAY OTHERWISE ... AND YOU DO SO IN FULL KNOWLEDGE OF 21ST CENTURY SENSIBILITIES.

And, Jafar, isn't that also so for other Muslims ?

THE SUBJECT OF THIS THREAD EVIDENTLY SAYS SO.

[jafar00]

Here is the difference jafar ( although you are right they where all wrong ) you people are still doing it, read the headlines or read what Kat posted this didn't just happen in 7th century, it did then and yall are still doing it :poke:

Eh? When does what people are doing in deepest, darkest Yemen represent what the other 1.5 billion or so of us do?


Your statement is just plain wrong. More than that, it's deeply offensive. Sick, in fact.

In a further post, you say ...



Newsflash: WE ARE IN THE 21ST CENTURY. YET, TODAY, YOU SAY THAT MOHAMED 'RAPED NOBODY'

You would've perhaps been more correct to judge that by the standards of all those centuries ago, the understanding of 'rape' was different to today. But .. this IS today, AND WE KNOW BETTER.

Or at least, we should !! I have difficulty in seeing evidence that you share those sensibilities.

Here's something for you to consider.

There are (not counting coercion, though it's relevant anyway to one of these options !!!) just two forms of sex.

1. Consenting sex, i.e, where those involved both want it, and are fully capable of understanding and appreciating WHAT they want.

2. Rape.

From this - and considering what WE KNOW IS DEFINITELY TRUE - I ask this: how on earth can a nine year old child POSSIBLY be capable of consent ???

This leaves, given an inevitable 'no' answer, with what's left. Namely, RAPE.

But, Jafar, YOU SAY OTHERWISE ... AND YOU DO SO IN FULL KNOWLEDGE OF 21ST CENTURY SENSIBILITIES.

And, Jafar, isn't that also so for other Muslims ?

THE SUBJECT OF THIS THREAD EVIDENTLY SAYS SO.

The child in this story was married against her will and indeed raped.

Aisha went willingly to marry Mohamed, and according to many Hadiths on the subject, didn't go to live with him until she reached puberty which in those times was a sign of maturity and of marriageable age.

I'm not going to go around and around in circles ad infinitum trying to get it you to understand what is an simple historical fact. Everyone was happy for the marriage to take place. None of Mohamed's enemies, nor enemies of Muslims over thousands of years since ever mentioned the age of Aisha at the time of their marriage. Not until recent years anyway.

It's lame and illogical to start judging the entire medieval society based on 21st century customs.

Joseph was 90 when he married Mary who was 12-14 at the time. Was Joseph a paedophile?

[Jeff]

[QUOTE]Eh? When does what people are doing in deepest, darkest Yemen represent what the other 1.5 billion or so of us do?

Fair enough jafar I hear ya I just simply don't believe this happens just in Yemen, I think Muslims would marry children anywhere they can get away with it , and of course that is just my opioin I did not look anything up to try to prove ya wrong or me right because it wouldn't change my mind anyway.

[Marcus Aurelius]

...Joseph was 90 when he married Mary who was 12-14 at the time. Was Joseph a paedophile?

complete bullshit. List the Bible book, chapter and verse you got that from, dumb ass.

[jafar00]

[QUOTE=jafar00;664164]

Fair enough jafar I hear ya I just simply don't believe this happens just in Yemen, I think Muslims would marry children anywhere they can get away with it , and of course that is just my opioin I did not look anything up to try to prove ya wrong or me right because it wouldn't change my mind anyway.

It is not an Islamic custom. It was a custom of nobles and powerful families many years ago. If what they are doing in Yemen is not a continuation of that antiquated custom, it is totally wrong as I suspect this case is completely wrong too. Sometimes poverty leads scumbag parents to sell their daughters into slavery for money. This is despicable.


complete bullshit. List the Bible book, chapter and verse you got that from, dumb ass.

I won't give Islamic sources because you wouldn't believe them anyway so here are some Christian ones.

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=m_OShrBh0I0C&lpg=PP1&pg=PA12#v=onepage&q=betrothal&f=false

Marriage (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)It is probably at (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)Nazareth (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10725a.htm) that Joseph (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)betrothed (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02537c.htm) and married her who was to become the (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)Mother of God (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm). When the marriage took place, whether before or after the (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)Incarnation (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07706b.htm), is no easy matter to settle, and on this point the masters of (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)exegesis (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05692b.htm) have at all times been at variance. Most modern (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)commentators (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04157a.htm), following the footsteps of (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)St. Thomas (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14663b.htm), understand that, at the epoch of the (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)Annunciation (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01541c.htm), the (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)Blessed Virgin (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm) was only (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)affianced (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02537c.htm) to Joseph; as (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)St. Thomas (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14663b.htm) notices, this interpretation suits better all the (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)evangelical (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06655b.htm) data. (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)
It will not be without interest to recall here, unreliable though they are, the lengthy stories concerning St. Joseph's marriage contained in the (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)apocryphal writings (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01601a.htm). When forty years of age, Joseph married a (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)woman (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15687b.htm) called Melcha or Escha by some, Salome by others; they lived forty-nine years together and had six children, two daughters and four sons, the youngest of whom was (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)James (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08280a.htm) (the Less, (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)"the Lord's brother" (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02767a.htm)). A year after his wife's death, as the (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)priests (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12406a.htm) announced through (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)Judea (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08544a.htm) that they wished to find in the (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)tribe of Juda (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08536a.htm) a respectable man to espouse (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)Mary (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm), then twelve to fourteen years of age. Joseph, who was at the (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)time (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14726a.htm) ninety years old, went up to Jerusalem among the candidates; a (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)miracle (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10338a.htm) manifested the choice (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)God (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06608a.htm) had made of Joseph, and two years later the (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)Annunciation (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01541c.htm) took place. These dreams, as (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)St. Jerome (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08341a.htm) styles them, from which many a (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)Christian (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03712a.htm) artist has drawn his inspiration (see, for instance, (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)Raphael's (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12640c.htm) "Espousals of the Virgin"), are void of authority; they nevertheless acquired in the course of ages some popularity; in them some (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)ecclesiastical (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03744a.htm)writers sought the answer to the well-known difficulty arising from the mention in the Gospel of (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)"the Lord's brothers" (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02767a.htm); from them also popular credulity has, contrary to all probability, as well as to the tradition witnessed by old works of (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)art (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03710a.htm), retained the (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)belief (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02408b.htm) that St. Joseph was an old man at the time of marriage with the (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)Mother of God (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm). (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)

In ancient Israel, girls married in their teens, even early teens. (http://www.truthortradition.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1168)[2] (http://www.truthortradition.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1168#null) For Mary to be betrothed (engaged) but not yet formally married, yet old enough to have and nurse the Messiah, she would have been 12-14. The Zondervan Pictorial Encyclopedia of the Bible points out, “It appears that both boys and girls were married very young. Later [after the New Testament period] the rabbis fixed the minimum age for marriage at twelve for girls and thirteen for boys.” (http://www.truthortradition.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1168)[3] (http://www.truthortradition.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1168#null)

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

[QUOTE=Jeff;664178]

It is not an Islamic custom. It was a custom of nobles and powerful families many years ago. If what they are doing in Yemen is not a continuation of that antiquated custom, it is totally wrong as I suspect this case is completely wrong too. Sometimes poverty leads scumbag parents to sell their daughters into slavery for money. This is despicable.



I won't give Islamic sources because you wouldn't believe them anyway so here are some Christian ones.

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=m_OShrBh0I0C&lpg=PP1&pg=PA12#v=onepage&q=betrothal&f=false

Marriage (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)It is probably at (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)Nazareth (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10725a.htm) that Joseph (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)betrothed (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02537c.htm) and married her who was to become the (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)Mother of God (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm). When the marriage took place, whether before or after the (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)Incarnation (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07706b.htm), is no easy matter to settle, and on this point the masters of (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)exegesis (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05692b.htm) have at all times been at variance. Most modern (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)commentators (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04157a.htm), following the footsteps of (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)St. Thomas (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14663b.htm), understand that, at the epoch of the (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)Annunciation (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01541c.htm), the (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)Blessed Virgin (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm) was only (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)affianced (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02537c.htm) to Joseph; as (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)St. Thomas (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14663b.htm) notices, this interpretation suits better all the (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)evangelical (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06655b.htm) data. (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)
It will not be without interest to recall here, unreliable though they are, the lengthy stories concerning St. Joseph's marriage contained in the (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)apocryphal writings (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01601a.htm). When forty years of age, Joseph married a (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)woman (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15687b.htm) called Melcha or Escha by some, Salome by others; they lived forty-nine years together and had six children, two daughters and four sons, the youngest of whom was (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)James (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08280a.htm) (the Less, (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)"the Lord's brother" (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02767a.htm)). A year after his wife's death, as the (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)priests (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12406a.htm) announced through (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)Judea (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08544a.htm) that they wished to find in the (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)tribe of Juda (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08536a.htm) a respectable man to espouse (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)Mary (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm), then twelve to fourteen years of age. Joseph, who was at the (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)time (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14726a.htm) ninety years old, went up to Jerusalem among the candidates; a (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)miracle (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10338a.htm) manifested the choice (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)God (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06608a.htm) had made of Joseph, and two years later the (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)Annunciation (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01541c.htm) took place. These dreams, as (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)St. Jerome (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08341a.htm) styles them, from which many a (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)Christian (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03712a.htm) artist has drawn his inspiration (see, for instance, (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)Raphael's (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12640c.htm) "Espousals of the Virgin"), are void of authority; they nevertheless acquired in the course of ages some popularity; in them some (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)ecclesiastical (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03744a.htm)writers sought the answer to the well-known difficulty arising from the mention in the Gospel of (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)"the Lord's brothers" (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02767a.htm); from them also popular credulity has, contrary to all probability, as well as to the tradition witnessed by old works of (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)art (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03710a.htm), retained the (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)belief (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02408b.htm) that St. Joseph was an old man at the time of marriage with the (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)Mother of God (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm). (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)

In ancient Israel, girls married in their teens, even early teens. (http://www.truthortradition.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1168)[2] (http://www.truthortradition.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1168#null) For Mary to be betrothed (engaged) but not yet formally married, yet old enough to have and nurse the Messiah, she would have been 12-14. The Zondervan Pictorial Encyclopedia of the Bible points out, “It appears that both boys and girls were married very young. Later [after the New Testament period] the rabbis fixed the minimum age for marriage at twelve for girls and thirteen for boys.” (http://www.truthortradition.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1168)[3] (http://www.truthortradition.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1168#null)


Jafar a huge difference between marrying 12/13/14 year olds than marrying 6/7/8 or 9 year olds. Especially at 14 many girls have physically matured as far as a boy has at 18. However even now here in USA girls 14 year old can not legally get married in most states , maybe with parental consent they can in a few states.

[Marcus Aurelius]

I won't give Islamic sources because you wouldn't believe them anyway so here are some Christian ones.

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=m_OShrBh0I0C&lpg=PP1&pg=PA12#v=onepage&q=betrothal&f=false

Marriage (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)

It is probably at (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)Nazareth (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10725a.htm) that Joseph (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)betrothed (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02537c.htm) and married her who was to become the (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)Mother of God (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm). When the marriage took place, whether before or after the (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)Incarnation (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07706b.htm), is no easy matter to settle, and on this point the masters of (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)exegesis (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05692b.htm) have at all times been at variance. Most modern (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)commentators (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04157a.htm), following the footsteps of (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)St. Thomas (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14663b.htm), understand that, at the epoch of the (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)Annunciation (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01541c.htm), the (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)Blessed Virgin (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm) was only (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)affianced (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02537c.htm) to Joseph; as (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)St. Thomas (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14663b.htm) notices, this interpretation suits better all the (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)evangelical (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06655b.htm) data. (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)
It will not be without interest to recall here, unreliable though they are, the lengthy stories concerning St. Joseph's marriage contained in the (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)apocryphal writings (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01601a.htm). When forty years of age, Joseph married a (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)woman (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15687b.htm) called Melcha or Escha by some, Salome by others; they lived forty-nine years together and had six children, two daughters and four sons, the youngest of whom was (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)James (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08280a.htm) (the Less, (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)"the Lord's brother" (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02767a.htm)). A year after his wife's death, as the (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)priests (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12406a.htm) announced through (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)Judea (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08544a.htm) that they wished to find in the (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)tribe of Juda (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08536a.htm) a respectable man to espouse (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)Mary (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm), then twelve to fourteen years of age. Joseph, who was at the (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)time (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14726a.htm) ninety years old, went up to Jerusalem among the candidates; a (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)miracle (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10338a.htm) manifested the choice (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)God (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06608a.htm) had made of Joseph, and two years later the (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)Annunciation (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01541c.htm) took place. These dreams, as (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)St. Jerome (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08341a.htm) styles them, from which many a (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)Christian (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03712a.htm) artist has drawn his inspiration (see, for instance, (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)Raphael's (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12640c.htm) "Espousals of the Virgin"), are void of authority; they nevertheless acquired in the course of ages some popularity; in them some (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)ecclesiastical (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03744a.htm)writers sought the answer to the well-known difficulty arising from the mention in the Gospel of (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)"the Lord's brothers" (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02767a.htm); from them also popular credulity has, contrary to all probability, as well as to the tradition witnessed by old works of (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)art (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03710a.htm), retained the (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)belief (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02408b.htm) that St. Joseph was an old man at the time of marriage with the (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)Mother of God (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm). (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)

In ancient Israel, girls married in their teens, even early teens. (http://www.truthortradition.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1168)[2] (http://www.truthortradition.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1168) For Mary to be betrothed (engaged) but not yet formally married, yet old enough to have and nurse the Messiah, she would have been 12-14. The Zondervan Pictorial Encyclopedia of the Bible points out, “It appears that both boys and girls were married very young. Later [after the New Testament period] the rabbis fixed the minimum age for marriage at twelve for girls and thirteen for boys.” (http://www.truthortradition.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1168)[3] (http://www.truthortradition.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1168)



you really are not very bright, are you. The source for the 12-14 comment says this about themselves...

We are an independent, nondenominational ministry that is not affiliated with any other religious denomination or group.

the GOOGLE source says betrothal was at 12-14... look up the word, dumb ass. It's a promise to marry, not a marriage.

Your New Advent source is garbage too...
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Joseph_the_Pedophile#Mary_married_90-year-old_Joseph_when_she_was_only_12.2C_so_Joseph_was_a _pedophile_too

Mary married 90-year-old Joseph when she was only 12, so Joseph was a pedophile too

Everyone who makes this claim, cite the same New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia page.[1] (http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Joseph_the_Pedophile#cite_note-1) What they do not mention is that this page begins by warning readers, "the apocryphal literature is full of details, the non-admittance of these works into the Canon of the Sacred Books casts a strong suspicion upon their contents".[2] (http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Joseph_the_Pedophile#cite_note-Catholic_Encyclopedia_1-2)

According to Wikipedia, apocrypha is defined as "spurious", "of questionable authenticity", and "Christian texts that are not canonical."[3] (http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Joseph_the_Pedophile#cite_note-3) Thus they can be considered as the Christian equivalent of da`if (weak) or maudu (fabricated) hadith (http://wikiislam.net/wiki/List_of_Fabricated_Hadith).
Something that is non-canonical is not binding on a follower and can be ignored. There is no authoritative Christian text which state Mary's age. Claims about her age are, at best, educated guesses, but guesses none-the-less. Bukhari and Muslim (http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur%27an,_Hadith_and_Scholars:Aisha#Aisha.27s_Age_ at_Consummation_and_Marriage), on the other hand, are canonical Islamic writings (http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam_and_Scripture) of the utmost religious authenticity (http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Sahih), accepted by approximately 90 percent (http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Sunni) of the world's Muslims.

Even if we do accept this tu-quoque logical fallacy (http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Logical_Fallacies) as a valid argument, there remains several problems. The first being the fact that the New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia page does not say Mary married Joseph when she was aged only 12.

What it actually says, after warning readers once again that the stories are "unreliable", is that Mary was 12 to 14 at the time of the choosing of candidates, and the Annunciation (the announcement by the angel Gabriel (http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Gabriel) to the virgin called Mary, that she would conceive and become the mother of Jesus)[4] (http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Joseph_the_Pedophile#cite_note-4) took place two years later.[5] (http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Joseph_the_Pedophile#cite_note-Catholic_Encyclopedia_2-5) This would make Mary 14 to 16 at the time of her marriage, not 12, or 9, as was the case between Muhammad and Aisha (http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Aisha%27s_Age_of_Consummation). She would have been a teenager of child-bearing age, not a pre-pubescent pre-teen child.

Another problem is that the theological significance of Joseph and Muhammad to the Christian and Islamic (http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam) faiths are incomparable (i.e. the logical fallacy of false equivalence (http://wikiislam.net/wiki/False_Equivalence)). Unlike the Muslim view of Muhammad, Christians do not consider Joseph to be an uswa hasana (http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Uswa_Hasana) (excellent model of conduct). Joseph's moral character holds no importance within Christian theology. He could have been insane and it would not matter to a Christian.
Then there is the fact that, according to both the Christian scriptures and the Islamic ones, Mary was a virgin when she conceived and gave birth to Jesus; therefore, her relationship with Joseph could not have been a sexual one until after Jesus' birth, making her possibly 17 years of age at the time the marriage was eventually consummated, if ever.

Indeed, the same New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia page continues the narrative of Joseph's life by stating both Mary and Joseph entered the marriage with the understanding that it was never to be consummated.[6] (http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Joseph_the_Pedophile#cite_note-Catholic_Encyclopedia_4-6)

Mary's Perpetual virginity, the belief that Mary remained a virgin her entire life, is an essential article of faith for the majority of the world's Christians (including the Roman Catholic, Anglo-Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and Oriental Orthodox Christians). It is even held by some Muslims.[7] (http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Joseph_the_Pedophile#cite_note-7)
Finally, the most decisive argument against the claim that Joseph was a pedophile is the fact that the same non-canonical writings which are used to gather information on Joseph and Mary's age, also confirm Mary's status as "ever virgin" (in The History of Joseph the Carpenter, Jesus says on Joseph's death "my mother, virgin undefiled").[8] (http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Joseph_the_Pedophile#cite_note-8)





Consider yourself educated, dumb ass.

[Marcus Aurelius]

additional education for Jahil...

http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=9298

JOSEPH'S AGE

Let's get right to the facts. The only sources for the age of St. Joseph are the apocryphal accounts previously quoted. They are just as unreliable in this instance too. The apocryphal stories were not meant to portray Joseph as old and senile, but basically to safeguard the universal belief in Mary's virginity in the face of heretical opposition and insinuations. They adopted old age for Joseph to symbolize deadened passions, and to certify Mary's absolute continence with Joseph. Again, they made "brethren of the Lord" children of a former marriage to avoid problems. So they had to give Joseph advanced years to generate these children, then to become a widower, and only after that period to take Mary into his charge as her guardian.

When this unfounded supposition is rejected, we will have more reason to justify his youth at the time of his marriage with Our Lady. Also, to reply to the apocrypha on his senility, I reject it because it was so unique a marriage as ever existed between two people so holy as Joseph and Mary. God's grace is more than sufficient to observe virginity if such be God's will.
Above all, the idea that St. Joseph would be an old man of eighty or more years stands in direct contradiction with the requirements of his vocation. Joseph was to appear publicly as the husband of Mary and the father of Jesus, at least to safeguard the honor of Mother and Son. Yet how could a man of patriarchal years be considered capable of fatherhood? A decrepit, senile guardian of Mary would open the door to public suspicion of adultery and illegitimacy. Again, hard work and trying situations of all sorts beset the Holy Family. How could such an old man perform duties that called for a robust provider and protector? The general feeling of the Gospel points to the conclusion that Joseph was of an age customary for marriage, and that age was certainly not advanced to the twilight years of life. Granting the truth of St. Joseph's virginity, and therefore the falsity of any tales of his earlier marriage, could we hold that a devout Jew would remain unmarried until extreme old age in defiance of the customs of his day? We have to assume that Joseph lived during the major portion of Christ's life at Nazareth, as would appear from the text of St. Luke, "He was subject to them." (Lk.2:51)

Therefore it is safe to assert that Joseph must have been espoused to Mary when he was in the prime of life. There's no way to discover his age more exactly than to study the customs of his times, and determine if possible, what the normal marriageable age must have been. The Dead Sea Scrolls indicates such an average age when the male was considered marriageable. The Essene community wished its members to delay marriage (if they were to marry at all) until well after the customary time, and a man in his twenties was considered beyond that time. So the normal age for a man was in the middle to late teens. In such a hypothesis, Joseph would have been about 17-19 years old at the time of his espousal. Joseph died most likely in the latter part of the hidden life of Jesus, and certainly before the public life and passion of Our Lord. Joseph was father at Nazareth for sometime since Jesus was "subject to them." He would have been at Cana if living. Otherwise its difficult to explain the subsequent text that Jesus left Cana and went to Capharnaum, "He and His mother and his brethren and his disciples."(Jn.2:12). No mention of Joseph. Again, when Christ's fellow citizens attempted to refute Him by naming His living relatives, they omitted to mention His supposed father. (Mt.13:55) Jesus commended Mary to St. John while He hung on the cross. Joseph was the official protector of the Blessed Virgin because he was her husband. If Joseph was living, there was no reason to commend Mary to John. By giving Mary to John's protection, Our Lord was assuming guardianship of Mary. Therefore Joseph had already died. This was important because Our Lord was making His Mother the Mother of the Church at this point, and she became the mother of all the living in the order of grace.

Therefore, the process of clearing away the dross of the apocrypha came to an end, and the untarnished luster of St. Joseph's virginity was revealed to all. From the 15th century to the present, it has been acknowledged by all the Catholic faithful. That is, until this alleged ossuary of James (brother of Jesus) appeared recently. This has allowed apocryphal teaching to re-emerge as an explanation of "brethren of the Lord."
Theologians have not been lax in imitating the example of Suarez, who composed a special defense of St. Joseph's dignity and holiness, and vigorously rejected the legend of Joseph the widower. (Suarez, In III,q.28,a.3,disp.5,sect 4, n.9)
Are Catholics obliged to accept the virginity of St. Joseph as revealed by God and contained in the deposit of faith confided to the Church? No. No theologian has made this claim. The correct theological note is that it would be rash for a Catholic to deny it, although strictly speaking, no Catholic is bound to accept it as part of official Catholic doctrine. In 1889 Pope Leo XIII wrote in his Encyclical "Quamquam Pluries" "that virgins can look to him [Joseph] for their pattern and as the guardian of virginal integrity."
In this age of a disastrous sexual revolution, let us once again echo the praises of the virginal integrity of St. Joseph and ask him to bring sanity and common sense to a materialistic and sex obsessed world. If the answer to error is truth; if the answer to hate is to love; then the answer to impurity is purity and chastity. Let St. Joseph be our guide, and may he and our Immaculate Mother lead us once again out of slavery to sin to our freedom in Christ Our Lord. Amen.

[Arbo]

complete bullshit. List the Bible book, chapter and verse you got that from, dumb ass.

So if the Bible doesn't say something, it didn't happen? And only what is said in the bible matters? Just asking.


http://www.catholicculture.org/cultu...fm?recnum=9298 (http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=9298)

You castigate jafar for his sources, complaining about them, then use a source that would be biased towards your point of view to prove what you claim? Big time Irony.

[jafar00]

Jafar a huge difference between marrying 12/13/14 year olds than marrying 6/7/8 or 9 year olds. Especially at 14 many girls have physically matured as far as a boy has at 18. However even now here in USA girls 14 year old can not legally get married in most states , maybe with parental consent they can in a few states.

Would a marriage between a 12-14yo to a 90 year old, or even mid 20s man be acceptable according to 21st century US morals? in 1880, the legal age of marriage in Delaware, USA was 7yo and in most other states it was 10. Times have changed since then haven't they? The fact is that betrothal and marriage at a very early age was not uncommon in the 15th century.

I made a list of early marriages and betrothals before in another thread where this was discussed. People such as

Margaret III, Countess of Flanders - Married at 7 in 1357 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_III_of_Flanders)


Margaret of Bohemia, Queen of Hungary - Betrothed at 2, Married at 7 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_of_Luxembourg) in 1342


Isabella of Hainault - Betrothed at 1, Married at 10 in 1180 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isabella_of_Hainault)


And so on...

ergo, it was the custom of the time to marry at a very early age. Mohamed (saw) was no paedophile.


you really are not very bright, are you. The source for the 12-14 comment says this about themselves...



the GOOGLE source says betrothal was at 12-14... look up the word, dumb ass. It's a promise to marry, not a marriage.

Your New Advent source is garbage too...
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Joseph_the_Pedophile#Mary_married_90-year-old_Joseph_when_she_was_only_12.2C_so_Joseph_was_a _pedophile_too




Consider yourself educated, dumb ass.

And your wikiislam source is impeccable?

[Gaffer]

So where does Joseph's 90 years age come from? I do remember him being said to be old, but not 90. Those were the days when reaching 40 made you an old person and it was rare.

Joseph was a carpenter, who supposedly taught his son the trade. So how long did Joseph live? He must have been a regular Jack Lalane.

Girls married at 12 and 13 in those days because they were considered women and able to bear children. Anyone that achieved the age of 30 was considered old and fortunate. The mortality rate in those days was incredibly high.

[Marcus Aurelius]

...And your wikiislam source is impeccable?

I notice you 'forgot' to mention catholicculture.org. Truth hurts, huh, dumb ass.

Mohammed was a pedophile rapist, and died in agony as a coward.

BTW... the fact you whine like a little girl about WikiIslam, and then use Wikipedia in the same post, is hilariously ironic:laugh2:

[Marcus Aurelius]

So where does Joseph's 90 years age come from? I do remember him being said to be old, but not 90. Those were the days when reaching 40 made you an old person and it was rare.

Joseph was a carpenter, who supposedly taught his son the trade. So how long did Joseph live? He must have been a regular Jack Lalane.

Girls married at 12 and 13 in those days because they were considered women and able to bear children. Anyone that achieved the age of 30 was considered old and fortunate. The mortality rate in those days was incredibly high.

I already debunked the 90 year old nonsense.:cool:

[revelarts]

So if the Bible doesn't say something, it didn't happen? And only what is said in the bible matters? Just asking.

You castigate jafar for his sources, complaining about them, then use a source that would be biased towards your point of view to prove what you claim? Big time Irony.

The Bible is our source of authority as the koran is for the Muslims.

the bible does not say how old Joseph or Mary were.
the Koran DOES say who old Mohamed's child bride was.

that's 1st

2nd if Jahil can show that the sources for some Muslims info is False and just tradition or made up by certain tribes and cultures. I (for one ) have no problem taking his word for it. at least taking the source with a grain of salt.

the the same should go for sources that are and have been, for centuries, considered false, embellished and or otherwise made up additions to the historical narrative found in the Bible.
Of Course there are many historical bits written outside of the Bible that confirm many portions of it, Pilate, the census taken by Rome, text about John the baptist and Jesus. etc

However other things like... Many people believe that Jesus was born on the 25th of December but that's WELL known to be false and it is NOT in the Bible. So similarly details of Mary's and Josephs Ages are NOT found in any known historical docs of the 1st 3 centuries.

People can speculate, assume and accuse all they like but they've got no facts to back up pedophile accusations from the Bible or elsewhere.

[jafar00]

The Bible is our source of authority as the koran is for the Muslims.

the bible does not say how old Joseph or Mary were.
the Koran DOES say who old Mohamed's child bride was.


Actually Aisha's age was mentioned in Hadiths, not in the Qur'aan.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Actually Aisha's age was mentioned in Hadiths, not in the Qur'aan.

So, the Hadith's lie?

[jafar00]

So, the Hadith's lie?

No. While some accounts put her age as 10 at betrothal and 15 at marriage, it is generally accepted as 6 at betrothal and 9 at marriage. Neither of which were out of the ordinary at the time.

[Marcus Aurelius]

No. While some accounts put her age as 10 at betrothal and 15 at marriage, it is generally accepted as 6 at betrothal and 9 at marriage. Neither of which were out of the ordinary at the time.
Your false prophet was a pedophile. He had sex with a child. ANYONE, at ANY TIME who has sex with a child is a pedophile, and deserves to die. Period.

You worship a man burning in Hell for all eternity.

[Arbo]

Your false prophet was a pedophile. He had sex with a child. ANYONE, at ANY TIME who has sex with a child is a pedophile, and deserves to die. Period.

You worship a man burning in Hell for all eternity.

In real life, in the real world, face to face with people, if you are talking to someone in person who is a Muslim, do you say the above to them?

[jafar00]

Your false prophet was a pedophile. He had sex with a child. ANYONE, at ANY TIME who has sex with a child is a pedophile, and deserves to die. Period.

You worship a man burning in Hell for all eternity.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z33CocoMNn8


In real life, in the real world, face to face with people, if you are talking to someone in person who is a Muslim, do you say the above to them?

He's trolling.

[Drummond]

No. While some accounts put her age as 10 at betrothal and 15 at marriage, it is generally accepted as 6 at betrothal and 9 at marriage. Neither of which were out of the ordinary at the time.

I'm really fed up with this argument.

A child doesn't cease to be a child just because some old pervert who had a religion to shove down peoples' throats wanted to say so.

A few hundred years ago, 'scientific consensus' of the time had it that the earth was flat. Because that's what people said and even believed, did it make it true, Jafar ? Would you care to argue that, because people said it was, that, all that time ago, IT WAS ?

FACT - this Mohamed git was an old pervert, and TODAY, Muslims defend that perversity. YOU HAVE DONE IT YOURSELF, YOU, A MUSLIM, LIVING IN TODAY'S WORLD.

.... and that's all there is to it. Muslims have NOT progressed as the rest of the world has.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

In real life, in the real world, face to face with people, if you are talking to someone in person who is a Muslim, do you say the above to them? I would if circumstances called for it but no I do not go out looking for muslims to criticize. There is not a man alive that I am scared to say the truth to an that especially includes those I know wouldn't like to hear it. In fact, face to face is my preferred way of talking to people regardless if they be friend or foe AND always has been for me.. -Tyr

[jafar00]

I'm really fed up with this argument.

A child doesn't cease to be a child just because some old pervert who had a religion to shove down peoples' throats wanted to say so.

A few hundred years ago, 'scientific consensus' of the time had it that the earth was flat. Because that's what people said and even believed, did it make it true, Jafar ? Would you care to argue that, because people said it was, that, all that time ago, IT WAS ?

FACT - this Mohamed git was an old pervert, and TODAY, Muslims defend that perversity. YOU HAVE DONE IT YOURSELF, YOU, A MUSLIM, LIVING IN TODAY'S WORLD.

.... and that's all there is to it. Muslims have NOT progressed as the rest of the world has.

King Richard II married a 6yo. King Henry IV married a 12yo and so on.... It's funny they never get a mention.

[aboutime]

King Richard II married a 6yo. King Henry IV married a 12yo and so on.... It's funny they never get a mention.



jafar. Since you sound so prone to going back centuries to provide examples. Most of us are not convinced about your techniques to distract, or misplace attention from PRESENT DAY reality.

You sound like a little kid who was scolded by his mommy for peeing on the toilet seat, and your reasoning to her was "Well, other kids do it and their mommy never says anything!"

[Drummond]

King Richard II married a 6yo. King Henry IV married a 12yo and so on.... It's funny they never get a mention.

I think Aboutime's done a good job of answering you, Jafar.

I'll have to check your examples out in any case. But, accepting for argument that your statements are historically correct ... note that they are HISTORICAL ... and PURELY that.

Richard II, Henry IV - did they represent a religion whose practitioners would TODAY condone such things ? The point of the discussion this thread was created to consider is that TODAY such things are done by MUSLIMS.

And cite me the Christians who'd approve of children of those ages being 'married' today. Or, would fight to argue approval of either of the 'cases' you cite of English rulers. But YOU, Jafar, defend Mohamed to us all !!!!

[Marcus Aurelius]

King Richard II married a 6yo. King Henry IV married a 12yo and so on.... It's funny they never get a mention.

Show me the historical records from a reliable source that says they raped these girls like Mohammed did, and I'll call them pedophiles too.

Dumb ass.

[jafar00]

jafar. Since you sound so prone to going back centuries to provide examples. Most of us are not convinced about your techniques to distract, or misplace attention from PRESENT DAY reality.

You sound like a little kid who was scolded by his mommy for peeing on the toilet seat, and your reasoning to her was "Well, other kids do it and their mommy never says anything!"

Mohamed (saw) didn't live in the present day so I have no idea what your argument is.


I think Aboutime's done a good job of answering you, Jafar.

I'll have to check your examples out in any case. But, accepting for argument that your statements are historically correct ... note that they are HISTORICAL ... and PURELY that.

Richard II, Henry IV - did they represent a religion whose practitioners would TODAY condone such things ? The point of the discussion this thread was created to consider is that TODAY such things are done by MUSLIMS.

And cite me the Christians who'd approve of children of those ages being 'married' today. Or, would fight to argue approval of either of the 'cases' you cite of English rulers. But YOU, Jafar, defend Mohamed to us all !!!!

And Mohamed's (saw) marriage to Aisha is ALSO historical. Your point?

[red states rule]

Actually Aisha's age was mentioned in Hadiths, not in the Qur'aan.

http://schnellmann.org/pic_counterjihad/mein_koran.jpg

[revelarts]

the Trololo dude cracks me up.

[red states rule]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-GZuYGowXMFo/TaHfFgVFcvI/AAAAAAAAD-o/DxZxO4PHp8A/s1600/hate_or_art.jpg

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-GZuYGowXMFo/TaHfFgVFcvI/AAAAAAAAD-o/DxZxO4PHp8A/s1600/hate_or_art.jpg Libs say a Christian crucifix turned upside down in urine is art, but an infidel even touching a Quran is a hate crime.. Now which side are they on? I think the answer is obvious and libs control our Education system. As long as they control that the muslims will win eventually. Fact... A very sad fact... For with Islam the liberal only stand is to appease! They will fight Christianity tooth and nail but Islam always say give them what they want.. Which by logic and common sense indicates that they too are enemies of this nation.. -Tyr

[Arbo]

I would if circumstances called for it but no I do not go out looking for muslims to criticize.

Thanks for the answer, but I asked MA, and as of yet, he has not offered a response.

[Arbo]

so I have no idea what your argument is.

It appears based on several threads, the 'point' is that there are some extremist muslims that have done bad thing, and for that ALL muslims must be continually picked on, bashed and treated like shit.

Because that's how ignorant people act, and how American's get a reputation for being ignorant.

[red states rule]

http://sarahtrachtenberg.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/koran-vi.jpg

[Drummond]

And Mohamed's (saw) marriage to Aisha is ALSO historical. Your point?

Jafar. Are you blind to that which you prefer not to see ? You were adequately answered in post #42, just a couple of posts before the one where you pose that question !!!

I'll quote the part of my post which you evidently need to see, yet would prefer you didn't. In larger font, this time. As follows:-


Richard II, Henry IV - did they represent a religion whose practitioners would TODAY condone such things ? The point of the discussion this thread was created to consider is that TODAY such things are done by MUSLIMS.

And cite me the Christians who'd approve of children of those ages being 'married' today. Or, would fight to argue approval of either of the 'cases' you cite of English rulers. But YOU, Jafar, defend Mohamed to us all !!!!

[jafar00]

Jafar. Are you blind to that which you prefer not to see ? You were adequately answered in post #42, just a couple of posts before the one where you pose that question !!!

I'll quote the part of my post which you evidently need to see, yet would prefer you didn't. In larger font, this time. As follows:-

It is not supported by Islam at all. Next question.

[Marcus Aurelius]

It is not supported by Islam at all. Next question.

liar.


http://quotingislam.blogspot.com/2011/06/islamic-scholars-explanations-of-quran.html


Top Islamic scholars' explanations of Qur'an 65:4 show that the verse assumes consummation of marriage with prepubescent girls


So major Muslim expositors of the Quran agree that Quran 65:4 assumes and supports consummation of marriage with prepubescent girls. These expositors know what Maududi above mentions: per Quran 33:49 (http://www.islamawakened.com/Quran/33/49/default.htm), a waiting period before remarriage is only required if the dissolved marriage was consummated.

Also, many Muslim translations of 65:4 make absolutely clear that the verse refers to the waiting period before remarriage of prepubescent girls. See for example these translations: Al-Muntakahb, Abdel Haleem, Abdul Majid Daryabadi, Aisha Bewley, Ali Quli Qara'i, Muhammad Mahmoud Ghali, Muhammad Taqi Usmani.

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2010/04/yemeni-child-brides-aisha-and-quran-654.html


Western Muslims are typically quite embarrassed by the fact that Muhammad had sex with a nine-year-old girl, and Muslim apologists are doing everything in their power to rewrite history in order to rescue their prophet from criticism. But are they willing to rewrite the Qur'an as well?

According to Surah 2:228, if a Muslim man wants to divorce his wife, he should wait until she has gone through three monthly cycles (i.e. three periods). But the question later arose: What are men who want a divorce supposed to do when their wives, for whatever reason, do not have monthly cycles? The Qur'an answers this question in Surah 65:4, where it gives divorce rules for (1) women who do not have monthly cycles because they are too old, (2) girls who do not have monthly cycles because they are too young, and (3) women and girls who do not have monthly cycles because they are pregnant. The verse declares that, if Muslim men want to divorce girls who haven't yet reached puberty, they must wait three months (after having sex with them).


Hence, the Qur'an says that there is no waiting period if a man hasn't had sex with his bride, and the Qur'an prescribes a waiting period for men who want to divorce their prepubescent child-brides. This presupposes that the men have had sex with them, which means that the Qur'an allows sex with prepubescent girls. This shouldn't be surprising, since Muhammad himself had sex with a girl who hadn't reached puberty.

[Arbo]

http://quotingislam.blogspot.com/2011/06/islamic-scholars-explanations-of-quran.html

Hey look, a blog that in no way identifies who the blogger is. Not the most reliable thing to use.

[jafar00]

liar.


http://quotingislam.blogspot.com/2011/06/islamic-scholars-explanations-of-quran.html

Remember what was discussed previously about kings and queens, nobles, etc... all marrying at a young age, some pre-pubecent in that time period as a matter of routine? The verse doesn't say marrying pre-pubescent girls is allowed at all. It only covers the question of how long they should wait before being divorced even if they haven't menstruated yet because of the common custom of marrying at a young age at the time. If it wasn't mentioned, it wouldn't have answered the question from those who lived at that time would it?



Allah the Exalted clarifies the waiting period of the woman in menopause. And that is the one whose menstruation has stopped due to her older age. Her `Iddah is three months instead of the three monthly cycles for those who menstruate, which is based upon the Ayah in (Surat) Al-Baqarah. ﴿see 2:228﴾ The same for the young, who have not reached the years of menstruation. Their `Iddah is three months like those in menopause. This is the meaning of His saying;

﴿وَاللَّـتِي لَمْ يَحِضْنَ﴾

(and for those who have no courses...) as for His saying;

﴿إِنِ ارْتَبْتُمْ﴾

(if you have doubt...) There are two opinions: First, is the saying of a group of the Salaf, like Mujahid, Az-Zuhri and Ibn Zayd. That is, if they see blood and there is doubt if it was menstrual blood or not. The second, is that if you do not know the ruling in this case, then know that their `Iddah is three months. This has been reported from Sa`id bin Jubayr and it is the view preferred by Ibn Jarir. And this is the more obvious meaning. Supporting this view is what is reported from Ubay bin Ka`b that he said, "O Allah's Messenger! Some women were not mentioned in the Qur'an, the young, the old and the pregnant.'' Allah the Exalted and Most Honored sent down this Ayah,

﴿وَاللاَّئِى يَئِسْنَ مِنَ الْمَحِيضِ مِن نِّسَآئِكُمْ إِنِ ارْتَبْتُمْ فَعِدَّتُهُنَّ ثَلَـثَةُ أَشْهُرٍ وَاللَّـتِي لَمْ يَحِضْنَ وَأُوْلَـتُ الاٌّحْمَالِ أَجَلُهُنَّ أَن يَضَعْنَ حَمْلَهُنَّ﴾

(Those in menopause among your women, for them the `Iddah, if you have doubt, is three months; and for those who have no courses. And for those who are pregnant, their `Iddah is until they lay down their burden.) Ibn Abi Hatim recorded a simpler narration than this one from Ubay bin Ka`b who said, "O Allah's Messenger! When the Ayah in Surat Al-Baqarah was revealed prescribing the `Iddah of divorce, some people in Al-Madinah said, `There are still some women whose `Iddah has not been mentioned in the Qur'an. There are the young, the old whose menstruation is discontinued, and the pregnant.' Later on, this Ayah was revealed,

﴿وَاللاَّئِى يَئِسْنَ مِنَ الْمَحِيضِ مِن نِّسَآئِكُمْ إِنِ ارْتَبْتُمْ فَعِدَّتُهُنَّ ثَلَـثَةُ أَشْهُرٍ وَاللَّـتِي لَمْ يَحِضْنَ﴾

(Those in menopause among your women, for them the `Iddah, if you have doubt, is three months; and for those who have no courses.)''

http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1316&Itemid=121

And now it looks like the girl in this story may actually be still alive and still living with her family. The whole thing could just be rumours, however there is more to this story which is yet to be determined.


Yemen's human rights minister has said she will press for the minimum age of marriage to be set at 18, after the reported death of a young girl on the first night of her marriage.
Eight-year-old Rawan was said to have died last week from internal bleeding after sexual intercourse, after having been married to a man in his 40s in the northeastern province of Hajja.
The provincial governor, however, on Saturday denied the reports that Rawan had died.


Huriya Mashhoor told the AFP news agency she wanted to revive a bill that has lain dormant since 2009, which would have set the minimum age for marriage at 17, and amend it to raise the age to 18.
"We are asking to fix the legal age for marriage at 18, as Yemen is a signatory to the international conventions on children's rights," she said.
Mashhoor spoke a day after the government formed a committee to investigate the reports of the girl's death.
The governor of Hajja province told official news agency SABA that Rawan was still alive.
Ali al-Qaissi said "the young girl Rawan Abdo Hattan is still alive and normally lives with her family who, in turn, deny the whole thing".
But he added that "the young girl is currently in a social protection centre after undergoing physical and psychological tests in a public hospital" in the area.


'Not enough evidence'
Before the denial from the governor, Mashhoor had said: "We do not have enough evidence at the moment."
"But I am worried that there could be an attempt to silence the matter, especially as it took place in an isolated rural area in Hajja province where there have been similar cases before.
"If the case was confirmed and covered up, then the crime would be more serious," Mashhoor warned.
Mashhoor has been involved in a campaign against the marriage of child brides in Yemen. There is no clear definition in the country of what constitutes a child, making it difficult to battle the practice.
European Union foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton urged the Sanaa authorities on Friday to investigate the case "without delay and to prosecute all those responsible for this crime".
Human Rights Watch said on Wednesday that 14 percent of girls in Yemen are married before the age of 15, and 52 percent before 18, citing Yemeni and 2006 data from the United Nations.
Marrying off young daughters is a way for poor Yemeni families to save on the costs of bringing up a child and earn extra money from the dowry given to a girl.
According to the UN about half of Yemen's 24 million people lack sufficient food and access to safe water.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2013/09/201391413182157493.html

[Marcus Aurelius]

jahil seems not to care or even admit that regardless of what may or may not have been common at some point in time, it was then, and is now, disgusting and sick to have sex with children like Mohammed did.

Jahil's entire argument is... "well, it was common 'then', so it is acceptable 'now' that it happened 'then'."

Dumb ass.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Remember what was discussed previously about kings and queens, nobles, etc... all marrying at a young age, some pre-pubecent in that time period as a matter of routine? The verse doesn't say marrying pre-pubescent girls is allowed at all. It only covers the question of how long they should wait before being divorced even if they haven't menstruated yet because of the common custom of marrying at a young age at the time. If it wasn't mentioned, it wouldn't have answered the question from those who lived at that time would it?


http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1316&Itemid=121

And now it looks like the girl in this story may actually be still alive and still living with her family. The whole thing could just be rumours, however there is more to this story which is yet to be determined.


http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2013/09/201391413182157493.html

BTW... your sources are crap. According to Arbo, you're not allowed to cite sources that only agree with your own point of view... it's hypocritical.

[red states rule]

More on the "leader" of Islam





The Myth:
Muhammad Condemned Pedophilia
The Truth:The legitimacy of “marrying” pre-pubescent girls who have not yet had their “monthly courses” is established both in the Qur’an and in the "perfect example" set by Muhammad for his Muslim followers.


The Qur'an:

Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same) (65:4 (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/065-qmt.php#065.004))The rule concerns divorce, which obviously implies marriage. Muhammad wanted believing men to observe a three month waiting period before evicting their wives, to make sure that they weren’t pregnant.

Muhammad elsewhere encouraged his men to marry “young girls” for sexual pleasure:


"Allah's Apostle said to me, "Have you got married O Jabir?" I replied, "Yes." He asked "What, a virgin or a matron?" I replied, "Not a virgin but a matron." He said, "Why did you not marry a young girl who would have fondled with you?" (Bukhari 59:382 (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/bukhari/059-sbt.php#005.059.382))

Lest there be any doubt by what he meant by “young,” Muhammad set the example by marrying and having sex with Aisha when she was only 9-years-old:

'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: “Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine.” (Sahih Muslim 3309 (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/muslim/008-smt.php#008.3309)) This is confirmed in many other hadith as well.

According to the most reliable traditions, Aisha brought her dolls to Muhammad’s house for play (Muslim 3341 (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/muslim/008-smt.php#008.3311)) and he would fondle the little girl in the tub while taking baths with her (Bukhari 6:298 (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/bukhari/006-sbt.php#001.006.298)). Aisha was just a teenager by the time Muhammad died, but she had already spent over half her life in marriage to himEven worse for Muslims is that part of the Qur’an was actually “revealed” while Muhammad was in bed with this little girl:


[Muhammad said] "…the Divine Inspirations do not come to me on any of the beds except that of Aisha." (Bukhari 47:755 (http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/bukhari/047-sbt.php#003.047.755))
So, no... Muhammad did not condemn pedophilia.

Not even close.


http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/muhammad/myths-mu-pedophilia.htm

[jafar00]

jahil seems not to care or even admit that regardless of what may or may not have been common at some point in time, it was then, and is now, disgusting and sick to have sex with children like Mohammed did.

Jahil's entire argument is... "well, it was common 'then', so it is acceptable 'now' that it happened 'then'."

Dumb ass.

The verses and hadiths you have quoted are all about divorce and do not support your argument.

Fact: Marrying at a young age was normal in the middle ages and even as recent as 100-200 years ago.
Fact: It is not appropriate in the 21st century marry so young and is in fact against the law in most countries

What else is there to talk about here?

[Voted4Reagan]

a question for Jafar:

Why are Muslim men still marrying 8yo girls in the 21st century if it is as you say a 7th century custom..??

[logroller]

The verses and hadiths you have quoted are all about divorce and do not support your argument.

Fact: Marrying at a young age was normal in the middle ages and even as recent as 100-200 years ago.
Fact: It is not appropriate in the 21st century marry so young and is in fact against the law in most countries

What else is there to talk about here?
I don't know for sure what the cultual customs are everywhere in the world now, let alone throughout time, but it seems that consummating a marriage before the onset of menses should never have been culturally acceptable at any time in history. Betrothals I can understand, but consummation with a child that's not of a physical maturity level to reproduce...that's just perverse. It serves no honorable purpose to a marriage, family or God.

[aboutime]

a question for Jafar:

Why are Muslim men still marrying 8yo girls in the 21st century if it is as you say a 7th century custom..??



V4R. Don't be bothering jafar with such insulting questions. He may lose his page at the porn site.

[jafar00]

a question for Jafar:

Why are Muslim men still marrying 8yo girls in the 21st century if it is as you say a 7th century custom..??

Yemen hasn't caught up with the rest of us? One reason given was that severe poverty caused them to sell their daughters. It's terrible and it needs to stop. BTW a fatwa from Al Azhar University in Cairo said that women should not marry before the age of 15 and men before 16 because this is the average age of puberty and of responsibility.


I don't know for sure what the cultual customs are everywhere in the world now, let alone throughout time, but it seems that consummating a marriage before the onset of menses should never have been culturally acceptable at any time in history. Betrothals I can understand, but consummation with a child that's not of a physical maturity level to reproduce...that's just perverse. It serves no honorable purpose to a marriage, family or God.

I think in history it wasn't acceptable to consumate before puberty either. If this case is true (and there are reports that she is still alive) it needs to be stamped out immediately and the "husband" should be tried for murder.

[Voted4Reagan]

It is incorrect to say that it's not permitted to marry off girls who are 15 and younger. A girl aged 10 or 12 can be married. Those who think she's too young are wrong and they are being unfair to her.

We hear a lot in the media about the marriage of underage girls. We should know that Shariah law has not brought injustice to women.
Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia, Sheikh Abdul Aziz Al-Sheikh


↑ (http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Contemporary_Pedophilic_Islamic_Marriages#cite_ref-24) Top Saudi cleric: OK for young girls to wed (http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/01/17/saudi.child.marriage/index.html?iref=newssearch) - CNN, January 17, 2009



Our mothers and before them our grandmothers married when they were barely 12. Good upbringing makes a girl ready to perform all marital duties at that age.

Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia, Sheikh Abdul Aziz Al-Sheikh




↑ (http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Contemporary_Pedophilic_Islamic_Marriages#cite_ref-25) Carlyle Murphy - Child marriage case showcases deep splits in Saudi society (http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/saudi-arabia/090416/child-marriage-case-showcases-deep-splits-saudi-society) - GlobalPost, April 16, 2009




A nine-year-old girl has the same sexual capacities like a woman of twenty and over.
Skeikh Mohamed Ibn Abderrahmane Al-Maghraoui




↑ (http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Contemporary_Pedophilic_Islamic_Marriages#cite_ref-26) Fatwa in favour of 9-year-old girl marriage, Polemics (http://www.ansamed.info/en/news/ME03.@AM12423.html) - ANSAmed, September 8, 2008

[jafar00]

My mother in law married at 16. And she gave birth to my wonderful wife.

[red states rule]

http://images.sodahead.com/profiles/0/0/2/1/2/6/6/3/1/Moslem-Child-brides-Islamic-Pedophile-29762420729.png

[Arbo]

I am betting those speaking out the loudest wouldn't dare go to a mosque to say the things they say online. As 'being brave' on the internet is one thing, real life another.

[aboutime]

I am betting those speaking out the loudest wouldn't dare go to a mosque to say the things they say online. As 'being brave' on the internet is one thing, real life another.



Since you brought it up with a Bet. Why don't you be the first to prove it? That should either make you a Hero in your own mind, or...what most of us already know. It would make you DEAD.

[Arbo]

Since you brought it up with a Bet. Why don't you be the first to prove it? That should either make you a Hero in your own mind, or...what most of us already know. It would make you DEAD.

Uh, I am talking about those that continually spout off on an internet forum, slamming Islam. I can not prove they would or would not do the same in real life. But I agree that if they did walk into a mosque and spout off the same way, they'd probably end up dead. But why fear death if you believe in something? Or is it just safer to get one's 'internet macho' on?

[red states rule]

Since you brought it up with a Bet. Why don't you be the first to prove it? That should either make you a Hero in your own mind, or...what most of us already know. It would make you DEAD.

Since Arbo is now a defender of Muslims, if they ever go after his family they will show their gratitude and kill him last

After making him watch as they slaughter his family of course

[Nukeman]

Since Arbo is now a defender of Muslims, if they ever go after his family they will show their gratitude and kill him last

After making him watch as they slaughter his family of course
REALLY!?!?!??!? So now if someone calls some of you out and ask if you have the balls to back up the "internet tough guy" persona and now you say something like that!!!! Wow just wow. Really don't know where you get your crap from sometimes!?!?!?!?:poke:

[red states rule]

REALLY!?!?!??!? So now if someone calls some of you out and ask if you have the balls to back up the "internet tough guy" persona and now you say something like that!!!! Wow just wow. Really don't know where you get your crap from sometimes!?!?!?!?:poke:

Where does it come from?

Well here for one...............


http://wizbangblog.com/2013/09/05/religion-of-peace-muslims-throw-stones-at-jews-visiting-temple-mount-for-rosh-hashanah/

and the never ending slaughter of helpless people

Maybe you are not up on current events Nukeman

[aboutime]

Uh, I am talking about those that continually spout off on an internet forum, slamming Islam. I can not prove they would or would not do the same in real life. But I agree that if they did walk into a mosque and spout off the same way, they'd probably end up dead. But why fear death if you believe in something? Or is it just safer to get one's 'internet macho' on?


Arbo. Well then. If you can't bring yourself to SLAM Islam. That must mean you DEFEND it, and really don't care whether Islamic laws replace our Constitutional Laws...ala OBAMA, and his merry band of Muslim Brotherhood gang.

[red states rule]

Arbo. Well then. If you can't bring yourself to SLAM Islam. That must mean you DEFEND it, and really don't care whether Islamic laws replace our Constitutional Laws...ala OBAMA, and his merry band of Muslim Brotherhood gang.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_9SWihgUwVDw/TQra-ByQz2I/AAAAAAAAAFs/nWiykvn8nY8/s1600/Muslims%2BNOT%2BPROBLEM%2BREST%2BOF%2BWORLD%2BIS.j pg

[Arbo]

REALLY!?!?!??!? So now if someone calls some of you out and ask if you have the balls to back up the "internet tough guy" persona and now you say something like that!!!! Wow just wow. Really don't know where you get your crap from sometimes!?!?!?!?:poke:

It is clearly diversion from the reality that 'internet tough guy' is about as much as they can do, or so it seems.


Arbo. Well then. If you can't bring yourself to SLAM Islam. That must mean you DEFEND it, and really don't care whether Islamic laws replace our Constitutional Laws...ala OBAMA, and his merry band of Muslim Brotherhood gang.

It is not a matter of 'you are with us or against us'. That one doesn't feel the need to spend hours a day on an internet forum trashing a certain religion does not mean they support it. The world is not built on such straight lines, or well defined lines. Terrorists should be hunted down and shot in cold blood and left to rot, but that doesn't mean that 1.6 billion people that practice that religion are all terrorists. I see some of the same people complaining about religion not being in schools, fine, let's have a christian prayer, a Buddhist prayer, an Islamic prayer and an atheist talking about how religion is fake, each and every morning in every school. Oh? That's not good? Yeah, thought so. Tis' the normal hypocrisy.

If you have read anything I have posted, you would know I place the Constitution above either party, and believe both parties have done a LOT of damage to our country by disregarding it. So your made up little fantasy that I wouldn't care if it was replaced sort of discredits your ability to read and understand where others stand.

Keep drinking the koolaide of hate, your government loves it, as you focus your attention on mostly trivial things and allow the government to keep marching on doing as it pleases.

[red states rule]

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT---WNQkaNOo2a5pfc_CYOBpYgjww82YhUqGza3lhKOdAHVfmrPw

[aboutime]

It is clearly diversion from the reality that 'internet tough guy' is about as much as they can do, or so it seems.



It is not a matter of 'you are with us or against us'. That one doesn't feel the need to spend hours a day on an internet forum trashing a certain religion does not mean they support it. The world is not built on such straight lines, or well defined lines. Terrorists should be hunted down and shot in cold blood and left to rot, but that doesn't mean that 1.6 billion people that practice that religion are all terrorists. I see some of the same people complaining about religion not being in schools, fine, let's have a christian prayer, a Buddhist prayer, an Islamic prayer and an atheist talking about how religion is fake, each and every morning in every school. Oh? That's not good? Yeah, thought so. Tis' the normal hypocrisy.

If you have read anything I have posted, you would know I place the Constitution above either party, and believe both parties have done a LOT of damage to our country by disregarding it. So your made up little fantasy that I wouldn't care if it was replaced sort of discredits your ability to read and understand where others stand.

Keep drinking the koolaide of hate, your government loves it, as you focus your attention on mostly trivial things and allow the government to keep marching on doing as it pleases.



Wow. That really does hurt when you...the greenhorn on the block accuses us of being like you. Your Kool-aid supply must be bitter.

[Arbo]

Wow. That really does hurt when you...the greenhorn on the block accuses us of being like you. Your Kool-aid supply must be bitter.

I'm not playing 'internet tough guy' slamming islam and suggesting those that do not are somehow defending it. But nice try.

[red states rule]

Wow. That really does hurt when you...the greenhorn on the block accuses us of being like you. Your Kool-aid supply must be bitter.


AT, Arbo is not playing the role of internet tough guy, he is however showing the results when the human brain does not get enough oxygen at birth

[Arbo]

AT, Arbo is not playing the role of internet tough guy, he is however showing the results when the human brain does not get enough oxygen at birth


Hey look, another OT BS post! Shocking!

[red states rule]

Sometimes the appeasers get upset over speaking the truth about them.

[jafar00]

Most threads around here seem to deteriorate into personal attacks. It's a shame really.

[Jeff]

Most threads around here seem to deteriorate into personal attacks. It's a shame really.

jafar you know you and I stand at opposite ends especially on the religion debate but I have to agree with you here, ( and yes I have been guilty of it myself ) things would be a lot better if we all stuck to facts instead of internet tough guy stuff

And BTW jafar if ya just got smart and realized I was right that would be easier as well :laugh:

[Jeff]

Yemen hasn't caught up with the rest of us? One reason given was that severe poverty caused them to sell their daughters. It's terrible and it needs to stop. BTW a fatwa from Al Azhar University in Cairo said that women should not marry before the age of 15 and men before 16 because this is the average age of puberty and of responsibility.

brother I started a thread just the other day showing it isn't just in Yemen, it is in many countries that are mainly Muslim and yes I know you saw the thread , selective reading I see :poke:

I think in history it wasn't acceptable to consumate before puberty either. If this case is true (and there are reports that she is still alive) it needs to be stamped out immediately and the "husband" should be tried for murder. agreed

It is never OK for a grown man to have sex with a 8 year old child, forget religion or ethnic background , if a man does that he is a pedophile plain and simple and should die the most painful of deaths

[Jeff]

I am betting those speaking out the loudest wouldn't dare go to a mosque to say the things they say online. As 'being brave' on the internet is one thing, real life another.

:laugh: I can only speak for myself but I think a couple on here can back my story, I have no problem walking down Islein NJ now called little Islam and saying what ever comes to mind , see I am not a internet tuff guy I live my life and say what I want to who ever I want when ever I want and let the chips fall where they will, in fact Jim has been with me and will usually ask me to sssshhhh :laugh: Now of course as I have gotten older I have learned not all things need to be spoken out loud because when it is just my opinion it is wrong and it should be kept to myself , but at 50 years old I can tell you I have walked through black area's speaking my mind , Muslim area's and yes the Jewish area's where the guys all carry brief cases and have them wild hair do's LOL along with the little Mexico and little PR areas So that would be a bet you would lose Arbo, at least with me

[Arbo]

:laugh: I can only speak for myself but I think a couple on here can back my story, I have no problem walking down Islein NJ now called little Islam and saying what ever comes to mind , see I am not a internet tuff guy I live my life and say what I want to who ever I want when ever I want and let the chips fall where they will, in fact Jim has been with me and will usually ask me to sssshhhh :laugh: Now of course as I have gotten older I have learned not all things need to be spoken out loud because when it is just my opinion it is wrong and it should be kept to myself , but at 50 years old I can tell you I have walked through black area's speaking my mind , Muslim area's and yes the Jewish area's where the guys all carry brief cases and have them wild hair do's LOL along with the little Mexico and little PR areas So that would be a bet you would lose Arbo, at least with me

You are probably one of the few that would do that, at least on this forum. ;)

[jafar00]

It is never OK for a grown man to have sex with a 8 year old child, forget religion or ethnic background , if a man does that he is a pedophile plain and simple and should die the most painful of deaths

Agreed. Even in history, it was not acceptable to consumate a marriage before puberty as far as I know from historical accounts.

[jafar00]

Good News! It seems little Rawan is alive and well and amused by the whole thing. Her death was all a rumour and simply didn't happen!


Recent reports of an 8-year-old Yemeni bride shocked the whole world and triggered dismay from the majority after learning that the child bride died from severe sexual injuries (http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/504910/20130910/8-year-old-yemeni-child-bride-died.htm#.UjqLo38paJR) on her wedding night. Rawan, the Yemeni child bride was reported to have tied the knot with a man almost five times her own age.

But now, the report is being questioned when authorities from the north western part of Yemen came up with a girl by the same name in front of the media along with her dad.
Death News Not True
Gulf News released a video interview (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2424377/Is-girl-proof-Yemeni-child-bride-rape-horror-happened-Man-produces-year-old-daughter-claims-married.html) of Rawan who was asked for a message to those who thought she was dead. "I would say to them that this is not true," she said while giggling once in a while to the camera, Daily Mail UK reports.

Even the alleged dead child bride Rawan's father made a statement against those who deemed the family members of the Yemeni girl as 'not humans.' The girl's father, Mohammed Abdu Ebrahim Hattan insisted the story that went around online was just a made up rumour and that those who spread it must have been possibly possessed by Satan.
He cleared it up that one of his six daughters really got married but it certainly was not Rawan. He added too that all of his daughters are in the pink of health and not suffering from any injuries.
The Practice Of Child Brides
Young girls getting married is very common in Yemen and has garnered much attention from various international rights groups. The recent alleged death report of Rawan pushed one Human Rights Minister Huriya Mashhoor to fight for 18 to be the minimum age (http://www.scmp.com/news/world/article/1312533/yemen-denies-child-bride-death) for any woman to get married, as mentioned by the South China (http://au.ibtimes.com/topics/detail/227/china/)Morning Post.
The country has once set 15 as the minimum age but the law was annulled during the 90s, letting parents be the one to decide instead on when their daughters should get married.

http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/507259/20130919/yemeni-child-bride-death-hoax-update-rawan.htm#.Uj-y_4Zmh8E

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-f7SGfh5uhjU/UjwDj0n_Y_I/AAAAAAAAtHg/u4TPkfOkTvY/s400/Yemeni+'child+bride'+said+to+have+died+on+her+wedd ing+night+has+appeared+in+a+video,+it+is+claimed.j pg

[tailfins]

It is clearly diversion from the reality that 'internet tough guy' is about as much as they can do, or so it seems.

On behalf of all us internet tough guys, I resent that:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UE6iAjEv9dQ&feature=player_embedded#t=1

[Arbo]

Good News! It seems little Rawan is alive and well and amused by the whole thing. Her death was all a rumour and simply didn't happen!


http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/507259/20130919/yemeni-child-bride-death-hoax-update-rawan.htm#.Uj-y_4Zmh8E

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-f7SGfh5uhjU/UjwDj0n_Y_I/AAAAAAAAtHg/u4TPkfOkTvY/s400/Yemeni+'child+bride'+said+to+have+died+on+her+wedd ing+night+has+appeared+in+a+video,+it+is+claimed.j pg

Well, that sorta makes all the screams look a little foolish, doesn't it?

[Arbo]

On behalf of all us internet tough guys, I resent that:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UE6iAjEv9dQ&feature=player_embedded#t=1

Brad is a pretty cool guy, and comes up with some funny and entertaining music.

[jafar00]

Well, that sorta makes all the screams look a little foolish, doesn't it?

The crickets are deafening in this thread now.

[tailfins]

The crickets are deafening in this thread now.

I hear you. Don't you find it the least bit ironic that the mackerel snappers that demand tolerance for them worshiping the pope are the first ones to fly off in an anti-Islamic rant?

[Jeff]

Well, that sorta makes all the screams look a little foolish, doesn't it?

Well That is great news !!! I am thrilled the young lady is fine , but I have to laugh , its all OK now because she didn't die but it is OK for grown men to sleep with babies as long as they don't die , great news :poke:

[Arbo]

Well That is great news !!! I am thrilled the young lady is fine , but I have to laugh , its all OK now because she didn't die but it is OK for grown men to sleep with babies as long as they don't die , great news :poke:

Gee, I don't recall anyone saying that.

[Jeff]

Well, that sorta makes all the screams look a little foolish, doesn't it?


Gee, I don't recall anyone saying that.

I don't know I kind of look at it being foolish that people where against a grown man having sex with a baby as saying it is OK ,


Arbo I would never use the word foolish with the word pedophile in the same sentence , and yes I do understand your point but being you want to try and be clever and knock people for being pissed about a news story that apparently went world wide just to get a reaction from the peanut gallery I will point out that there is nothing foolish about a grown man shoving his man size penis into a baby , nope I just don't find any humor in it at all, and as I said I thank God the story was wrong , do I feel foolish , not at all because #1 it was reported as true in many papers and #2 whether she died or not it is a sick MotherFer that would lay down with a baby, so you and your crew yuk it up , I will continue to be happy the little girl is safe and continue to believe in what I believe in !!

[Arbo]

Arbo I would never use the word foolish with the word pedophile in the same sentence , and yes I do understand your point but being you want to try and be clever and knock people for being pissed about a news story that apparently went world wide just to get a reaction from the peanut gallery

The story was posted as an anti-Muslim rant, just to get the fellow peanut gallery slapping backs for who can name call the best.

The story turned out to not be true.

None of that has anything to do with pedophiles, and as I stated many times before such people should not be breathing air on this earth.

[tailfins]

The story was posted as an anti-Muslim rant, just to get the fellow peanut gallery slapping backs for who can name call the best.

The story turned out to not be true.

None of that has anything to do with pedophiles, and as I stated many times before such people should not be breathing air on this earth.

Where did you pick that up? I thought that was a New England specific phrase, and from the older crowd to boot.

[Arbo]

Where did you pick that up? I thought that was a New England specific phrase, and from the older crowd to boot.

Uh, Jeff used it. But it not a new england thing btw.

[Jeff]

The story was posted as an anti-Muslim rant, just to get the fellow peanut gallery slapping backs for who can name call the best.

The story turned out to not be true.

None of that has anything to do with pedophiles, and as I stated many times before such people should not be breathing air on this earth.


Arbo I posted this article so as for your accusation of it being a Muslim rant you are wrong I hate pedophiles with a passion ( seen it to close to people I love ) I would of posted this very article if it where about a guy named Bubba from the deep south if they had pictures of a bunch or Rednecks dressed up in there Sunday best ( clean jeans and a t shirt with no holes ) with little girls lines up to be married ( yes the picture is false but as I said in post one it gives you a clear picture of what is going on &nbsp;) But a Muslim rant it isn't my fault that these people marry little kids , in fact jafar at one point said this happens in the part of the world ( yes I have since posted showing where it happens in many parts of the world ) but not because it is Muslim it could of been Jews , Catholics , you name it a pedophile is a pedophile , that brings me to your last sentence , you really believe this article has nothing to do with pedophiles ? WOW


As a medical diagnosis, pedophilia or paedophilia is a psychiatric disorder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_disorder) in persons 16 years of age or older typically characterized by a primary or exclusive sexual interest (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_attraction) toward prepubescent children (generally age 11 years or younger, though specific diagnostic criteria for the disorder extends the cut-off point for prepubescence to age 13).[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia#cite_note-DSM_5-1)[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia#cite_note-ICD-10-2)[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia#cite_note-britannica-3)[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia#cite_note-SetoReview-4) An adolescent who is 16 years of age or older must be at least five years older than the prepubescent child before the attraction can be diagnosed as pedophilia.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia#cite_note-DSM_5-1)[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia#cite_note-ICD-10-2)

According to Wikipedia this had a lot to do with pedophiles , and look I used the little Box for ya :laugh:


But I am glad to see once you recognize a pedophile you think they should not be breathing air on this earth :thumb:

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[jafar00]

Jeff, you post a lot of anti Muslim diatribes and this one was no different. You can't even prove that these things are in any way Islamic. You just stomp all over my faith with your muddy boots without knowing an ounce of knowledge about Islam.

Nobody agreed in this thread that paedophilia is ok and we were horrified at the thought of this little girl from Yemen being raped to death. We are elated that she has not been harmed and that she wasn't even involved in any marriage in the first place. One good thing to come out of it is that debate about minimum age is happening in Yemen and I hope they re-enable their past law again.

[Jeff]

Jeff, you post a lot of anti Muslim diatribes and this one was no different. You can't even prove that these things are in any way Islamic. You just stomp all over my faith with your muddy boots without knowing an ounce of knowledge about Islam.

Nobody agreed in this thread that paedophilia is ok and we were horrified at the thought of this little girl from Yemen being raped to death. We are elated that she has not been harmed and that she wasn't even involved in any marriage in the first place. One good thing to come out of it is that debate about minimum age is happening in Yemen and I hope they re-enable their past law again.

jafar I have posted about Muslims you are correct but as I explained if it was any other group of people doing the same thing I would post the same , as for not knowing nothing says you , I know many marry babies I know when they march they are big and bad and will scream down a lone woman but when they hear bikers are coming they cave like a deck of cards I know they are the religion of peace as soon as all other religions are gone , and these same people thaty where scared shitless of the bikers like to catch people ( you know 30 on one, you know good odds ) and cut there heads off if they dis agree , seems about right doesn't it, now your version , anything wrong about Muslims means they are not real, end of story, looks like I know more about your religion than you do ( and yes that is sarcasm because as I have said a million times I have no idea what your religion is all about other than ya'll worship a guy that married a baby ) jafar I post these things not out of hatred for Muslims but out of hatred for the acts being presented to me in news articles. \You know say how
We are elated that she has not been harmed and that she wasn't even involved in any marriage in the first place All other post where just celebrating that it didn't happen and how wrong anybody was that didn't like what they saw, you say there is a minimum age now I just posted a article for you showing this is a epidemic in many parts of the world not just Yemen, so lets just try the truth I am glad that you are against men marrying babies but it does happen in the Muslim religon and NO you didn't once post how happy you where for the girl just how happy you where we where wrong

[Gaffer]

Where did you pick that up? I thought that was a New England specific phrase, and from the older crowd to boot.

It's an expression that goes way back. The first time I heard it was in reference to the kids in the audience of the Howdy Doody Show. If it wasn't already, it became a national phrase at that time.

It is the evening of the day, I sit and watch the children play
Doing things I use to do, they think are new - As Tears Go By - Jaggar & Richards

[Arbo]

jafar I have posted about Muslims you are correct but as I explained if it was any other group of people doing the same thing I would post the same

Have you started a post every time a Catholic priest raped a little boy?

[fj1200]

There are plenty of pedophilia stories that go "unreported" on DP.

[jafar00]

jafar I have posted about Muslims you are correct but as I explained if it was any other group of people doing the same thing I would post the same , as for not knowing nothing says you , I know many marry babies I know when they march they are big and bad and will scream down a lone woman but when they hear bikers are coming they cave like a deck of cards I know they are the religion of peace as soon as all other religions are gone , and these same people thaty where scared shitless of the bikers like to catch people ( you know 30 on one, you know good odds ) and cut there heads off if they dis agree , seems about right doesn't it, now your version , anything wrong about Muslims means they are not real, end of story, looks like I know more about your religion than you do ( and yes that is sarcasm because as I have said a million times I have no idea what your religion is all about other than ya'll worship a guy that married a baby ) jafar I post these things not out of hatred for Muslims but out of hatred for the acts being presented to me in news articles.

You ignorance is showing through with your continued insults against my faith.


\You know say how All other post where just celebrating that it didn't happen and how wrong anybody was that didn't like what they saw, you say there is a minimum age now I just posted a article for you showing this is a epidemic in many parts of the world not just Yemen, so lets just try the truth I am glad that you are against men marrying babies but it does happen in the Muslim religon and NO you didn't once post how happy you where for the girl just how happy you where we where wrong

So my post http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?42896-MUSLIM-%91CHILD-BRIDE%92-DIES-Yemeni-8yr-old-Dies-of-Internal-Injuries-After-Sex-with-%91&p=666485#post666485 saying it is good news that she is alive and well is not saying I am happy for her?

[tailfins]

Have you started a post every time a Catholic priest raped a little boy?

I have a deal for the Catholics: How about we old-time Baptists treat Catholics they way the Catholics treat Muslims?

In the mean time here's some John Hagee, he may have some error, but he right down the line on the Papists:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OygDw2m3z4U


When we're done with that shall we discuss indulgences?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indulgence