Sept. 11, 2013: A Muslim poem but no Pledge of Allegiance at Boston-area high school

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

http://news.yahoo.com/sept-11-2013-muslim-poem-no-pledge-allegiance-105009544.html Sept. 11, 2013: A Muslim poem but no Pledge of Allegiance at Boston-area high school On Wednesday, the 12th anniversary of the September 11, 2001 terror attacks, the principal at Concord-Carlisle High School in the suburbs of Boston read a Muslim poem to the entire school instead of the Pledge of Allegiance.

Principal Peter Badalament has since apologized for the oversight, reports the Boston Herald. According to school district spokesman Tom Lucey, Badalament had lined up a student to recite the Pledge on the morning of Sept. 11. However, that student turned out to be busy with an internship.

“We had the well-being of students at the forefront of our thinking when we chose to acknowledge 9/11 by reading a poem that focused on cross-cultural understanding rather than unsettling words and images associated with the event,” the principal’s apology explained. Badalament also acknowledged “all those who died and suffered loss on 9/11″ and “those who have served and continue to serve our country.”

Badalament managed to fail to schedule anyone else to recite the Pledge of Allegiance. He was also apparently incapable of reciting the short expression of patriotism himself on the anniversary of coordinated al-Qaeda terrorist attacks that killed almost 3,000 people on American soil.

The recitation of the Muslim poem occurred later in the day, not at the same time the Pledge had been scheduled, Lucey added.

A local school board member has now stepped up to defend Badalament from the philistines who have criticized his decision.

“I’m disappointed at the reaction of some of my community,” Concord-Carlisle School Committee member Philip Benincasa told the Herald. “I think what the principal was doing was an attempt to offer young people a glimpse of what binds us together as people. This was an attack carried out by extremists, not by a religious group that is as peace-loving and valued member of our community, our culture and our world as any other.”

The poem by Syrian-American poet Mohja Kahf is called “My Grandmother Washes Her Feet in the Sink of the Bathroom at Sears.” It details the cultural collision that occurs when the author’s Muslim grandmother attempts to wash her feet in a bathroom at a Midwestern department store in observance of “wudu,” a pre- prayer ritual for Muslims.

The poem does not rhyme and has no recognizable metrical form. The word “American” makes three appearances in the work — two of them sarcastic observations by the narrator and the third a contemptuous reference to U.S. citizens by a character in the poem.

Here’s some sample verses:


She does it with great poise, balancing

herself with one plump matronly arm

against the automated hot-air hand dryer,

after having removed her support knee-highs

and laid them aside, folded in thirds,

and given me her purse and her packages to hold

so she can accomplish this august ritual

and get back to the ritual of shopping for housewares…

“You can’t do that,” one of the women protests,

turning to me, “Tell her she can’t do that.”

“We wash our feet five times a day,”

my grandmother declares hotly in Arabic.

“My feet are cleaner than their sink.

Worried about their sink, are they? I

should worry about my feet!”
Somebody tell me where these idiots come from. Read a damn muslim poem on 9 /11. And a extremely bad poem at that!! That's right, the freaking Department of Education ran by the Federal Government. And such a damn fool was put in charge of our kids..

[Arbo]

Does the school normally do the pledge?

[jafar00]

Somebody tell me where these idiots come from. Read a damn muslim poem on 9 /11. And a extremely bad poem at that!! That's right, the freaking Department of Education ran by the Federal Government. And such a damn fool was put in charge of our kids..

Why do you hate us?

[Larrymc]

Somebody tell me where these idiots come from. Read a damn muslim poem on 9 /11. And a extremely bad poem at that!! That's right, the freaking Department of Education ran by the Federal Government. And such a damn fool was put in charge of our kids..What to do when our public schools are becoming anti-God and anti-Family? we can't all home school so??

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Why do you hate us? Well, you asked so here is a sample of why.


http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/



Count the deaths, 30+1+30+11+24+10= 106 murdered in just 3 days. Now use your brain a bit . If I hated -ALL- Muslims why would I care to post this murdering death toll for over a year now when the vast majority of the victims are Muslim???? I do not hate all Muslims but that doesn't stop me from citing the truth and pointing out the desperate need for a Reformation in Islam. I rage against the senseless murdering slaughter regardless of what religion or race the victims are but that fact eludes my critics here. -Tyr



2013.09.13 (Baqubah, Iraq) - Thirty worshippers at a Sunni mosque are massacred by two bombs set by sectarian Jihadis.
2013.09.11 (Nazimabad, Pakistan) - A Shia scholar is brought down outside his home by Sunni assassins.
2013.09.11 (Baghdad, Iraq) - At least thirty Shia worshippers are torn to shreds by a suicide bomber at the entrance of their mosque.
2013.09.11 (Rafah, Egypt) - A Fedayeen suicide car bombing leaves eleven dead.
2013.09.10 (Maksar al-Hesan, Syria) - Women and children are among two dozen villagers massacred by al-Nusra over their status as religious minorities.
2013.09.10 (Baqubah, Iraq) - Ten people at an outdoor market are sent to Allah by al-Qaeda bombers.


* Sources for individual incidents can be provided upon request

[Drummond]

Well, you asked so here is a sample of why.


http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/



Count the deaths, 30+1+30+11+24+10= 106 murdered in just 3 days. Now use your brain a bit . If I hated -ALL- Muslims why would I care to post this murdering death toll for over a year now when the vast majority of the victims are Muslim???? I do not hate all Muslims but that doesn't stop me from citing the truth and pointing out the desperate need for a Reformation in Islam. I rage against the senseless murdering slaughter regardless of what religion or race the victims are but that fact eludes my critics here. -Tyr :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

... And please, Jafar, if you're going to answer Tyr's post, can I ask you to NOT go the 'This is a hate site, you should only see it as one, and not accept that these reported outrages are Islamic' route .... ???

It's a tired line, wholly unbelievable, and well you know it !!

[jafar00]

I wonder why they didn't choose poetry from Rumi?


:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

... And please, Jafar, if you're going to answer Tyr's post, can I ask you to NOT go the 'This is a hate site, you should only see it as one, and not accept that these reported outrages are Islamic' route .... ???

It's a tired line, wholly unbelievable, and well you know it !!

I say they are not Islamic, because they are not Islamic and you cannot prove they are either.

[tailfins]

Why do you hate us?

When you get yours, but we don't get ours, it's a problem.

[jafar00]

When you get yours, but we don't get ours, it's a problem.

I'd share mine with you. In fact, the Islamic way is for me to offer you my plate before I eat from it.

[red states rule]

Why do you hate us?

This is a good place to start asshole


http://images.nationalgeographic.com/wpf/media-live/photos/000/399/cache/september-9-11-attacks-anniversary-ground-zero-world-trade-center-pentagon-flight-93-second-airplane-wtc_39997_600x450.jpg

[tailfins]

I'd share mine with you. In fact, the Islamic way is for me to offer you my plate before I eat from it.

I mean get our beliefs honored. When a Muslim poem is OK to read aloud, but a Billy Sunday sermon isn't, it's time to say "enough".

[red states rule]

I mean get our beliefs honored. When a Muslim poem is OK to read aloud, but a Billy Sunday sermon isn't, it's time to say "enough".

and you can thank liberalism as our schools and universities are nothing but liberal indoctrination centers

[Drummond]

I wonder why they didn't choose poetry from Rumi?



I say they are not Islamic, because they are not Islamic and you cannot prove they are either.

Several days ago, a list of Quranic references were posted to show how war'like' Islam truly is.

But even leaving that aside .. would you care to explain to me how it is that the perpetrators of all the savage attacks, murders and maimings reported on a daily basis SAY THEY ARE ISLAMIC, AND FIGHTING FOR THAT CAUSE, IF IN 'FACT' THEY ARE NOT ???

If we were just talking abou one group of delusional thugs, your claim could be perhaps passed off as credible. BUT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THOUSANDS OF AGGRESSORS, REPRESENTING MANY GROUPS, IN A VARIETY OF COUNTRIES. If they're all 'wrong', then it's the biggest, most massive 'coincidence' of all time, if THEY'VE ALL SIMULTANEOUSLY MADE THE SAME ERROR !!

By the way, Jafar, you and I know that Hamas is included in that list of Jihadist scum, who ALSO say they're Islamic. AND YOU SUPPORT THEM.

So isn't it time you quit all the ridiculous attempts at Islam 'sanitation' ? There's not the 'disinfectant' in existence anywhere that could ever begin to sanitise what Islam is responsible for !!

[red states rule]

http://www.irreligion.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/sw0312cd__1268415395_1144.jpg

[Drummond]

Here, Jafar, is what I referred to a couple of posts ago, where I said: 'Several days ago, a list of Quranic references were posted to show how war'like' Islam truly is.'

Posted 4th September --- post #72 of the thread. With thanks to Red States Rule -

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?42634-Syrian-rebel-eating-heart-of-dead-victim-This-is-what-obama-will-help-win-Video-not&p=661787#post661787


The Quran:Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing...


but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)" The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries. In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did). The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is thus disingenuous (the actual Muslim words for persecution - "idtihad" - and oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do not appear in the verse). The actual Arabic comes from "fitna" which can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation. Taken as a whole, the context makes clear that violence is being authorized until "religion is for Allah" - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief.


Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."


Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.


Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."


Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').


Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle, as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. Here is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.


Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"


Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."


Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-" This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes. It also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is the Arabic word used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad and this is reflected in other translations of the verse).


Quran (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..." Is pursuing an injured and retreating enemy really an act of self-defense?


Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"


Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.


Quran (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."


Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah" Some translations interpret "fitna" as "persecution", but the traditional understanding of this word is not supported by the historical context (See notes for 2:293, also). The Meccans were simply refusing Muhammad access to their city during Haj. Other Muslims were allowed to travel there - just not as an armed group, since Muhammad had declared war on Mecca prior to his eviction. The Meccans were also acting in defense of their religion, since it was Muhammad's intention to destroy their idols and establish Islam by force (which he later did). Hence the critical part of this verse is to fight until "religion is only for Allah", meaning that the true justification of violence was the unbelief of the opposition. According to the Sira (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 324) Muhammad further explains that "Allah must have no rivals."


Quran (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."


Quran (8:59-60) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy."


Quran (8:65) - "O Prophet, exhort the believers to fight..."


Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them." According to this verse, the best way of staying safe from Muslim violence is to convert to Islam (prayer (salat) and the poor tax (zakat) are among the religion's Five Pillars). This popular claim that the Quran only inspires violence within the context of self-defense is seriously challenged by this passage as well, since the Muslims to whom it was written were obviously not under attack. Had they been, then there would have been no waiting period (earlier verses make it a duty for Muslims to fight in self-defense, even during the sacred months). The historical context is Mecca after the idolaters were subjugated by Muhammad and posed no threat. Once the Muslims had the power, they violently evicted those unbelievers who would not convert.


Quran (9:14) - "Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace..."


Quran (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant." The Arabic word interpreted as "striving" in this verse is the same root as "Jihad". The context is obviously holy war.


Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." "People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. According to this verse, they are to be violently subjugated, with the sole justification being their religious status. This was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths.




Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"


Quran (9:38-39) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place." This is a warning to those who refuse to fight, that they will be punished with Hell.


Quran (9:41) - "Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! That is best for you if ye but knew." See also the verse that follows (9:42) - "If there had been immediate gain (in sight), and the journey easy, they would (all) without doubt have followed thee, but the distance was long, (and weighed) on them" This contradicts the myth that Muslims are to fight only in self-defense, since the wording implies that battle will be waged a long distance from home (in another country and on Christian soil, in this case, according to the historians).


Quran (9:73) - "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination." Dehumanizing those who reject Islam, by reminding Muslims that they are merely firewood for Hell, makes it easier to justify slaughter. It also explains why today's devout Muslims have little regard for those outside the faith.


Quran (9:88) - "But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper."


Quran (9:111) - "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Quran: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme."


Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."


Quran (17:16) - "And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction." Note that the crime is moral transgression, and the punishment is "utter destruction." (Before ordering the 9/11 attacks, Osama bin Laden first issued Americans an invitation to Islam).


Quran (18:65-81) - This parable lays the theological groundwork for honor killings, in which a family member is murdered because they brought shame to the family, either through apostasy or perceived moral indiscretion. The story (which is not found in any Jewish or Christian source) tells of Moses encountering a man with "special knowledge" who does things which don't seem to make sense on the surface, but are then justified according to later explanation. One such action is to murder a youth for no apparent reason (74). However, the wise man later explains that it was feared that the boy would "grieve" his parents by "disobedience and ingratitude." He was killed so that Allah could provide them a 'better' son. (Note: This is one reason why honor killing is sanctioned by Sharia. Reliance of the Traveler (Umdat al-Saliq) says that punishment for murder is not applicable when a parent or grandparent kills their offspring (o.1.1-2).)


Quran (21:44) - "We gave the good things of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?"


Quran (25:52) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness..." "Strive against" is Jihad - obviously not in the personal context. It's also significant to point out that this is a Meccan verse.


Quran (33:60-62) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter." This passage sanctions the slaughter (rendered "merciless" and "horrible murder" in other translations) against three groups: Hypocrites (Muslims who refuse to "fight in the way of Allah" (3:167) and hence don't act as Muslims should), those with "diseased hearts" (which include Jews and Christians 5:51-52), and "alarmists" or "agitators who include those who merely speak out against Islam, according to Muhammad's biographers. It is worth noting that the victims are to be sought out by Muslims, which is what today's terrorists do. If this passage is meant merely to apply to the city of Medina, then it is unclear why it is included in Allah's eternal word to Muslim generations.


Quran (47:3-4) - "Those who reject Allah follow vanities, while those who believe follow the truth from their lord. Thus does Allah set forth form men their lessons by similitude. Therefore when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners," Those who reject Allah are to be subdued in battle. The verse goes on to say the only reason Allah doesn't do the dirty work himself is in order to to test the faithfulness of Muslims. Those who kill pass the test. "But if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost."


Quran (47:35) - "Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost (Shakir: "have the upper hand") for Allah is with you,"


Quran (48:17) - "There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for the lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom." Contemporary apologists sometimes claim that Jihad means 'spiritual struggle.' Is so, then why are the blind, lame and sick exempted? This verse also says that those who do not fight will suffer torment in hell.


Quran (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves" Islam is not about treating everyone equally. There are two very distinct standards that are applied based on religious status. Also the word used for 'hard' or 'ruthless' in this verse shares the same root as the word translated as 'painful' or severe' in verse 16.


Quran (61:4) - "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way" Religion of Peace, indeed! The verse explicitly refers to "battle array" meaning war. This is followed by (61:9): "He it is who has sent His Messenger (Mohammed) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam) to make it victorious over all religions even though the infidels may resist." (See next verse, below). Infidels who resist Islamic rule are to be fought.


Quran (61:10-12) - "O You who believe! Shall I guide you to a commerce that will save you from a painful torment. That you believe in Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad ), and that you strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with your wealth and your lives, that will be better for you, if you but know! (If you do so) He will forgive you your sins, and admit you into Gardens under which rivers flow, and pleasant dwelling in Gardens of 'Adn - Eternity ['Adn (Edn) Paradise], that is indeed the great success." This verse refers to physical battle in order to make Islam victorious over other religions (see above). It uses the Arabic word, Jihad.


Quran (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end." The root word of "Jihad" is used again here. The context is clearly holy war, and the scope of violence is broadened to include "hypocrites" - those who call themselves Muslims but do not act as such.


http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/qu...3-violence.htm

... 'charming', eh, Jafar ?

I'd like you to now explain to me how it is that the Quran 'isn't Islamic' ......

[red states rule]

Drummond, jafar has already been asked twice about that post and his wimpy response was they were taken out of contaxt

What do expect form our resident terrorist lover?

[Drummond]

Drummond, jafar has already been asked twice about that post and his wimpy response was they were taken out of contaxt

What do expect form our resident terrorist lover?

Yes, exactly.

But then, Jafar is following some fairly standard sanitation efforts. I've seem it explained elsewhere how Muslims assert that no non-Muslim examination of Islamic material can be relied upon to be accurate, or interpreted correctly. In other words, just believe what a Muslim tells you, because only THEY can 'know'.

It's a lame excuse .... laughable (if you could ever feel like laughing about it), but they try it on all the same.

[red states rule]

Yes, exactly.

But then, Jafar is following some fairly standard sanitation efforts. I've seem it explained elsewhere how Muslims assert that no non-Muslim examination of Islamic material can be relied upon to be accurate, or interpreted correctly. In other words, just believe what a Muslim tells you, because only THEY can 'know'.

It's a lame excuse .... laughable (if you could ever feel like laughing about it), but they try it on all the same.

Shades of Jafar


http://www.dcthornton.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/02/20060204.gif

[Drummond]

Shades of Jafar


http://www.dcthornton.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/02/20060204.gif:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

[red states rule]

http://image.spreadshirt.com/image-server/v1/designs/11534986,width=178,height=178/AN-APPEASER-IS-ONE-WHO-FEEDS-A-CROCODILE,-HOPING-IT-WILL-EAT-HIM-LAST.-CHURCHILL-quote.png

[jafar00]

Here, Jafar, is what I referred to a couple of posts ago, where I said: 'Several days ago, a list of Quranic references were posted to show how war'like' Islam truly is.'

Posted 4th September --- post #72 of the thread. With thanks to Red States Rule -

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?42634-Syrian-rebel-eating-heart-of-dead-victim-This-is-what-obama-will-help-win-Video-not&p=661787#post661787



... 'charming', eh, Jafar ?

I'd like you to now explain to me how it is that the Quran 'isn't Islamic' ......

Fair go. Ask me about one or two at a time. You just copy pasted a load from a blog that added it's own ignorant and bigoted commentary.

[jafar00]

Yes, exactly.

But then, Jafar is following some fairly standard sanitation efforts. I've seem it explained elsewhere how Muslims assert that no non-Muslim examination of Islamic material can be relied upon to be accurate, or interpreted correctly. In other words, just believe what a Muslim tells you, because only THEY can 'know'.

It's a lame excuse .... laughable (if you could ever feel like laughing about it), but they try it on all the same.

It's not "standard sanitation". In order to debate a topic, you need to know something about it.

[red states rule]

Fair go. Ask me about one or two at a time. You just copy pasted a load from a blog that added it's own ignorant and bigoted commentary.

Translation - way too many facts to deal with at one time. It is easier to lie, spin, duck, dodge, and hide from them one at a time

[Marcus Aurelius]

...I say they are not Islamic, because they are not Islamic and you cannot prove they are either.

So, you've gone from 'they are not Islamic'... to 'their acts are not Islamic but they are still', back to 'they are not Islamic'.

You're a dumb ass.

[Arbo]

Fair go. Ask me about one or two at a time. You just copy pasted a load from a blog that added it's own ignorant and bigoted commentary.

It is how they play the 'game'. Flood information, almost always cut and paste, as they don't have near that much information (or misinformation) in their heads. Must rely on right wing extremist blogs to steal copyrighted info from and all that. ;)

[Drummond]

It is how they play the 'game'. Flood information, almost always cut and paste, as they don't have near that much information (or misinformation) in their heads. Must rely on right wing extremist blogs to steal copyrighted info from and all that. ;)

Jafar is free to tackle as many, or as few, of those quotes as he chooses.

Of course, it would be that much more helpful to Jafar's mission here if he could refute everything provided ! Though ... wouldn't that be interesting ? Jafar being in opposition to the Quran itself is a somewhat entertaining prospect ....

Bottom line, Arbo - the Quran itself defies what Jafar claims for Islam, and for those who fight, murder and maim in its name. I'm hardly to blame, nor of course is the original poster of these various Quranic items, if there's so MUCH in the Quran which defies Jafar's sanitising efforts !!

Perhaps you could guide us as to how much of this we should've hidden from consideration ?

[Drummond]

Translation - way too many facts to deal with at one time. It is easier to lie, spin, duck, dodge, and hide from them one at a time:goodposting::goodposting::goodposting:

[Arbo]

Jafar is free to tackle as many, or as few, of those quotes as he chooses.

Why should he bother? It doesn't matter what 90% of Muslims believe or how they live their lives, you and the posse have determined they are all scum, murdering, pedophiles and if they don't agree you can just go on a forum and shout 'LIAR!'. There is really no point bothering to reply to such ignorance.

[tailfins]

Why should he bother? It doesn't matter what 90% of Muslims believe or how they live their lives, you and the posse have determined they are all scum, murdering, pedophiles and if they don't agree you can just go on a forum and shout 'LIAR!'. There is really no point bothering to reply to such ignorance.


I can't get over how they soil their britches over some random guy in an office in Australia.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Jafar is free to tackle as many, or as few, of those quotes as he chooses.

Of course, it would be that much more helpful to Jafar's mission here if he could refute everything provided ! Though ... wouldn't that be interesting ? Jafar being in opposition to the Quran itself is a somewhat entertaining prospect ....

Bottom line, Arbo - the Quran itself defies what Jafar claims for Islam, and for those who fight, murder and maim in its name. I'm hardly to blame, nor of course is the original poster of these various Quranic items, if there's so MUCH in the Quran which defies Jafar's sanitising efforts !!

Perhaps you could guide us as to how much of this we should've hidden from consideration ?


Perhaps you could guide us as to how much of this we should've hidden from consideration ? Are you kidding? This guy couldn't guide a one man fishing expedition ! He is one of those appeasing clowns that thinks Islam truly is the sanitized version they present for the gullible infidel fools to believe. :laugh:--Tyr

[Drummond]

Why should he bother? It doesn't matter what 90% of Muslims believe or how they live their lives, you and the posse have determined they are all scum, murdering, pedophiles and if they don't agree you can just go on a forum and shout 'LIAR!'. There is really no point bothering to reply to such ignorance.

But why is answering such an issue ?

If we're wrong, then surely, that can be proved ? Running AWAY from debate is hardly convincing. Rather, it is itself instructive.

It doesn't help that thousands of acts of terrorism across the world, all 'coincidentally' done in the name of Islam and 'all erroneously so' (!!!) are well documented -- does it ?

[Drummond]

Are you kidding? This guy couldn't guide a one man fishing expedition ! He is one of those appeasing clowns that thinks Islam truly is the sanitized version they present for the gullible infidel fools to believe. :laugh:--Tyr

Well, Tyr, I do like to have my little joke ... :laugh::laugh:

Let it not be said that I don't like to give my opposition a run for their money. If only they wouldn't run in the opposite direction ....:laugh:

[jafar00]

So, you've gone from 'they are not Islamic'... to 'their acts are not Islamic but they are still', back to 'they are not Islamic'.

You're a dumb ass.

Yes you still fail to provide evidence that they are Islamic acts. Who's the dumb ass now?