New Report: UK Crime Statistics Fudged to Justify Gun Ban

[Jeff]

Seems some will try anything.






How many times have we heard Piers Morgan rant and rave about crime rates in his home country? He claims gun violence is virtually nonexistent thanks to the Brits doing the “responsible” thing and taking everyone’s guns away in 1997. Sure, there was an acknowledged, initial spike in crime shortly thereafter, but then it began to fall and has since plummeted. Or so they say.
It turns out that they have an entire bureaucracy over there devoted not to fighting crime, but fighting crime statistics. Their job is to determine which crimes get recorded as crimes and which get categorized as something else, which ends up not affecting the overall crime rate.




http://lastresistance.com/3441/new-report-uk-crime-statistics-fudged-justify-gun-ban/

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Seems some will try anything.






http://lastresistance.com/3441/new-report-uk-crime-statistics-fudged-justify-gun-ban/ All socialism requires constant propaganda and lies to cover for its negatives and savagery. History reveals that is a fact.... --Tyr

[cadet]

... Didn't we already know this when Piers Morgan was trying to tell us that great Britain was better?
Old news.
Just like the NSA spying. We knew that for YEARS longer than when it suddenly became big.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Take a guess how much of that is to cover for and greatly under report serious and violent crimes by muslims!!! I submit that the entire formation of the vast bureaucracy was initiated to cover for the muslims primarily with the covering for the gun confiscation taking a second place. --Tyr

[revelarts]

Same thing happens in NYC over their "stop and frisk" program. faking the crime stats to make it look like "it works".
Soft police states want you to believe that all of their police strictures keeps you safer than having your freedom would.
It's a false promise but it rings true to some folks the public and is reassuring to many around election time. law and order baby, the gov't will protect you.

Look at the NSA's actions they haven't stopped one verifiable terrorist (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?43551-NSA-Spying-Did-Not-Result-In-a-SINGLE-Foiled-Terrorist-Plot) with it's bill-o-rights busting practices but some folks on all sides insist that it's good but just needs more "oversight."

[Jeff]

... Didn't we already know this when Piers Morgan was trying to tell us that great Britain was better?
Old news.
Just like the NSA spying. We knew that for YEARS longer than when it suddenly became big.

No Doubt about it we all knew what was going on but ya only have to read threw some of these threads to see there are those that didn't believe it and they where still and I am sure will still try to argue the fact that taking guns from law abiding citizens will prevent crime.

[Drummond]

See ...

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/373023/Crime-rate-plunges-as-police-massage-figures


HUNDREDS of thousands of crimes are going unrecorded or being downplayed by police battling to meet targets, according to an official report yesterday.

Although crime levels are falling, forces are “overstating” the true rate at which they are dropping, the Office for National Statistics has found.

Targets “may have swayed officers into downgrading marginal incidents” and low-level crimes are being dealt with informally instead of being logged, according to the ONS.

Officers are increasingly focused on “charges and detection” leaving recording standards to slip, the statisticians added.

The report said the overstating could be because of “performance pressures associated with targets (e.g. to reduce crime or increase detection rates) acting as perverse incentives for some crimes to be downgraded into non-notifiable categories”.

Tory MP Priti Patel said the public would be shocked.

She added: “No corners can be cut because behind every crime is a victim. The public will be appalled to find that ultimately criminals are getting away.” Shadow Policing Minister David Hanson said: “The Home Secretary should examine urgently whether, as the ONS suggest, the cuts to police budgets mark a return to fewer crimes being recorded by the police.”

The ONS crime bulletin found 400,000 fewer crimes were recorded by police in England and Wales over the past five years than were reported in the official Crime Survey. Since 2007 police recorded crime fell 33 per cent, while Crime Survey figures fell 17 per cent.

Also ...

http://www.theftprotect.co.uk/library/justice/Crime%20Of%20The%20Century%20A%20Chilling%20Look20 11.pdf

... which provides a PDF document that's highly instructive. It starts with ... 'To be persuaded crime is going down, look at the government figures. To be persuaded it is not, look out the window' ...

I like this one ...

http://www.theendrun.com/larry-pratt-british-gun-crime-stats-a-sham


Last night, Larry Pratt of Gun Owners of America appeared on Piers Morgan Tonight for a debate with the host. Morgan is a British “citizen” (“subject” (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/4191613.stm)?) who has recently been using his platform on CNN to promote the idea that the U.S. Constitution is “inherently flawed (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/12/26/piers-morgan-both-the-bible-and-u-s-constitution-are-inherently-flawed-and-need-to-be-amended/)” and to advocate stricter, more British-style gun control policies (http://www.infowars.com/piers-morgan-wants-to-eviscerate-2nd-amendment/) in the U.S. This was Pratt’s second appearance on the show in the past month, having previously appeared (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FVQgLkbLjQ) in the wake of the Sandy Hook event (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6W6b-voc-Ds#t=2m30s).

At one point in the exchange (around 11:24 in this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3C1d4onZsyw)), Morgan says that he “actually dug out the official figures… the homicide figures from guns in England and Wales by comparison to the United States of America going back to 2003,” and proceeds to read off numbers showing that the U.S. has a much higher gun murder rate. Morgan then claims that the lower numbers in England and Wales are “the result” of the “responsible action” taken in “respon[se]” to the 1996 school shooting in Dunblane, Scotland — namely a “handgun and assault weapon ban.”

To begin with, More Guns, Less Crime (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0226493660/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=thenru-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=0226493660) author John Lott has recently explained (http://johnrlott.blogspot.com/2012/12/so-did-piers-morgan-and-christiane.html) that this is a misleading representation of the statistics: Yes, the gun murder rate is relatively low in England and Wales, but it was already low before the ban, and the stats do not show a decrease in murders committed with guns (nor overall murders) since the ban was instituted, as Morgan implies. “There is a difference between levels and changes,” Lott notes. Meanwhile, The Telegraph reported (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/6438601/Gun-crime-doubles-in-a-decade.html) in 2009 that gun crime had “almost doubled in the last decade.”
Here's the thing, though. British studies of gun crime, or crime more generally, will be made from the starting-point of strict gun laws being the norm. So, British sources are far less likely to concentrate on the effect of strong gun laws than would American sources, because, to you, there's a level of normality in play demanding comparisons which British people would not be motivated to make.

The British have one standard of normality, ingrained into us over generations. Americans have another one, enshrined by your Constitution.

What Piers Morgan - entirely wrongly, in my view - is trying to do, is foist HIS BRITISH standards on Americans, insisting that HIS are superior to YOURS. Which is monumentally arrogant of him.

But where Morgan is concerned, there's more than that involved, for my money.

I don't know how well this is known in America. However .. Piers Morgan was once the editor of an especially pernicious Leftie rag, called the Daily Mirror. It's a somewhat lurid tabloid paper, specialising in promoting Left-wing news, and attacking Conservative figures (their vitriol against GW Bush had to be seen to be believed ..).

Morgan ceased to be its editor, BECAUSE HE WAS SACKED. Why ? Well ....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1461904/Mirror-editor-sacked-over-fake-photos-of-torture.html


Piers Morgan was sacked as the editor of the Daily Mirror last night as the newspaper's board made an unreserved apology for publishing fake pictures of British troops torturing Iraqi prisoners.

Morgan, 39, one of the most controversial tabloid editors of recent times, was dismissed after an afternoon-long board meeting at the Mirror's tower-block headquarters in Canary Wharf, east London.

He was immediately escorted from the building by security staff.

Morgan's departure came only hours after a devastating rebuttal of his defence of the pictures by Brig Geoff Sheldon, colonel of the Queen's Lancashire Regiment, whose soldiers were accused of torture and abuse in the Mirror under the headline "Vile".

The pictures provoked fears that they would endanger the lives of British troops in Basra. After a fortnight of recriminations, demands for an apology reached a climax once the Ministry of Defence declared that they could not have been taken in Iraq.

Col David Black, a former commanding officer of the regiment, said: "It is time the ego of an editor is measured against the life of a soldier."

A statement from Mirror publishers Trinity Mirror said last night: "The board of Trinity Mirror has decided that it would be inappropriate for Piers Morgan to continue in his role as editor of the Daily Mirror and he will therefore be stepping down with immediate effect.

"The Daily Mirror published in good faith photographs which it absolutely believed were genuine images... However there is now sufficient evidence to suggest that these pictures are fakes and that the Daily Mirror has been the subject of a calculated and malicious hoax.

"The Daily Mirror therefore apologises unreservedly."

The paper carried a front-page apology with a black border this morning, headlined: "Sorry... we were hoaxed."

For most of yesterday Morgan was his customary bullish self, "laughing and joking" with colleagues as they prepared the paper.

He told a television interviewer yesterday morning: "All I want to say is we published the truth."

But the end of his eight-year editorship came suddenly. At 6.30pm he was called to the executive floor to be told by Sly Bailey, the chief executive, that the board had "lost confidence in him". Morgan, who had made it clear that he would not resign, was not given the option of apologising and keeping his job.

According to staff, he was not allowed to bid farewell to his newsroom before being ushered out of the building. His personal assistant was said to be in tears.
Morgan's jacket was still on the chair where he had been sitting before being summoned by Miss Bailey.

There was a general sense of dismay at his leaving. Despite his sometimes mercurial editorship, he engendered much loyalty for his commitment to campaigning journalism.

But the Mirror board is understood to have been swayed by suggestions from institutional shareholders that Morgan's continuing aggressive insistence that the photographs were genuine would have a disastrous effect on circulation and revenue.

Directors were swayed by the rising tide of public opinion against the newspaper and a damning press conference yesterday at the headquarters of the Queen's Lancashire Regiment.

Col Black told the press conference: "These photographs are a recruiting poster for al-Qa'eda and every other terrorist organisation. They have made the lives of our Armed Forces in Iraq that much more difficult and dangerous."

I think, folks, that this says volumes for what's true about Piers Morgan ! Had he not been dealt with, he fully intended to go on insisting that hoax photographs were TRUE. Why ? Because they were damaging to the cause of the British troop presence in Basra, and were effectively anti-British Army.

As the above text points out, Morgan was doing Al Qaeda a favour by indulging in such propaganda .. whether a victim of a hoax, or not. Morgan remained unrepentant throughout all of this.

So, does Piers Morgan operate from ANY 'lofty moral standpoint' ? I ask: did he EVER do so ... as the pro-Leftie propaganda-monger he is ???

[aboutime]

Sir Drummond. And...they honestly want us all to believe....

Socialism is Great?

[Drummond]

Sir Drummond. And...they honestly want us all to believe....

Socialism is Great?

Well, it GRATES (if that helps ..) ... on the nerves, on the sensibilities of all truly decent human beings ....

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

See ...

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/373023/Crime-rate-plunges-as-police-massage-figures



Also ...

http://www.theftprotect.co.uk/library/justice/Crime%20Of%20The%20Century%20A%20Chilling%20Look20 11.pdf

... which provides a PDF document that's highly instructive. It starts with ... 'To be persuaded crime is going down, look at the government figures. To be persuaded it is not, look out the window' ...

I like this one ...

http://www.theendrun.com/larry-pratt-british-gun-crime-stats-a-sham


Here's the thing, though. British studies of gun crime, or crime more generally, will be made from the starting-point of strict gun laws being the norm. So, British sources are far less likely to concentrate on the effect of strong gun laws than would American sources, because, to you, there's a level of normality in play demanding comparisons which British people would not be motivated to make.

The British have one standard of normality, ingrained into us over generations. Americans have another one, enshrined by your Constitution.

What Piers Morgan - entirely wrongly, in my view - is trying to do, is foist HIS BRITISH standards on Americans, insisting that HIS are superior to YOURS. Which is monumentally arrogant of him.

But where Morgan is concerned, there's more than that involved, for my money.

I don't know how well this is known in America. However .. Piers Morgan was once the editor of an especially pernicious Leftie rag, called the Daily Mirror. It's a somewhat lurid tabloid paper, specialising in promoting Left-wing news, and attacking Conservative figures (their vitriol against GW Bush had to be seen to be believed ..).

Morgan ceased to be its editor, BECAUSE HE WAS SACKED. Why ? Well ....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1461904/Mirror-editor-sacked-over-fake-photos-of-torture.html



I think, folks, that this says volumes for what's true about Piers Morgan ! Had he not been dealt with, he fully intended to go on insisting that hoax photographs were TRUE. Why ? Because they were damaging to the cause of the British troop presence in Basra, and were effectively anti-British Army.

As the above text points out, Morgan was doing Al Qaeda a favour by indulging in such propaganda .. whether a victim of a hoax, or not. Morgan remained unrepentant throughout all of this.

So, does Piers Morgan operate from ANY 'lofty moral standpoint' ? I ask: did he EVER do so ... as the pro-Leftie propaganda-monger he is ??? I checked him out long ago and found him to be a lying ,pompous ass of the highest caliber and a total shill for the liberal/leftist agenda without an ounce of integrity or honor in him. After that I just view everything he says as a damn lie. Which puts me in the 99% correct category!--Tyr

[hjmick]

Meanwhile...

US student 'scarred for life' in street attack three days after arriving in UK (http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/23/21090020-us-student-scarred-for-life-in-street-attack-three-days-after-arriving-in-uk?lite)

http://media2.s-nbcnews.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/131023-student-attacked-5a.380;380;7;70;0.jpg


LONDON -- An American student was attacked and slashed with a broken bottle just three days after arriving in Britain, police said Wednesday.

Francesco Hounye, who moved to the U.K. from Florida to study aviation, needed 23 stitches to his face after five men beat him following a "heated" verbal exchange in the Shadwell area of east London.

"Every time I look in the mirror from now on I will be reminded of this incident," said Hounye, 22. "I face the rest of my life with the permanent scarring that will be left on my face as a result of this attack."


Meanwhile, again...


Woman, 28, told to prove age to buy pizza-cutter (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/5914307/Woman-28-told-to-prove-age-to-buy-pizza-cutter.html)



Jenny Palmer, 28, was asked for her ID at the checkout after she went to the retailer's Derby store to buy the £1.50 item.

"I'm only two years off my 30th birthday and hardly look like I'm going to go out and physically harm someone," she said.

"I told the checkout woman I was buying it because I was moving into a new house, but she said her screen was telling her to ask for ID. I think she could have used some common sense. I can't believe I had to go through all of that just to buy a pizza-cutter, of all things."

M&S insisted its employee was right to demand proof of age from Ms Palmer under the 'Challenge 25' policy.

Staff are required to ask for identification from any customer who tries to buy alcohol or a bladed item and appears younger than 25.


One crazy mixed up island...


To the OP...

I realize that the folks in the U.K. have never really had the level of freedoms their brothers and sisters here in the U.S. have enjoyed, what with the monarchy fearing an angry, dissatisfied citizenry and all... But to willingly, almost happily relinquish an already restricted freedom just makes no sense whatsoever...


Farm worker and wife arrested after burglars shot (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9516552/Farm-worker-and-wife-arrested-after-burglars-shot.html)

That case reminds me of the case of Tony Martin...

The farmer who shot the burglars, Tony Martin, was later charged with the murder of 16-year old Fred Barras and intent to cause grievous bodily harm to another intruder, Brendan Fearon.
In April 2000 he was found guilty of murder and jailed for life.

After an appeal Martin's conviction was later reduced to manslaughter and his sentence shortened to five years.

In January 2002 Martin was refused leave to take his case for acquittal to the House of Lords.

The two surviving burglars, Brendan Fearon, 29, and Darren Bark, 33, were jailed for three years and 30 months respectively.

In 2002 Fearon began a claim against Martin for up to £50,000 compensation for his injuries.
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/august/22/newsid_2500000/2500697.stm)

[Drummond]

I checked him out long ago and found him to be a lying ,pompous ass of the highest caliber and a total shill for the liberal/leftist agenda without an ounce of integrity or honor in him. After that I just view everything he says as a damn lie. Which puts me in the 99% correct category!--Tyr:clap::clap::clap::clap:

Nicely put. Morgan isn't to be trusted. He has his agenda, and it's one where the truth scarcely, if ever, has any part to play. Like other Lefties, all he really cares about is the effectiveness of the propaganda he wants to push on people.

He's the disgraced ex-editor of a disgraceful British Leftie rag. His standards were proven to be even lower than the rag he edited. Which is somewhere - somehow ! - beneath the level of the gutter.

[Drummond]

Meanwhile...

US student 'scarred for life' in street attack three days after arriving in UK (http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/23/21090020-us-student-scarred-for-life-in-street-attack-three-days-after-arriving-in-uk?lite)

http://media2.s-nbcnews.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/131023-student-attacked-5a.380;380;7;70;0.jpg




Meanwhile, again...


Woman, 28, told to prove age to buy pizza-cutter (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/5914307/Woman-28-told-to-prove-age-to-buy-pizza-cutter.html)





One crazy mixed up island...


To the OP...

I realize that the folks in the U.K. have never really had the level of freedoms their brothers and sisters here in the U.S. have enjoyed, what with the monarchy fearing an angry, dissatisfied citizenry and all... But to willingly, almost happily relinquish an already restricted freedom just makes no sense whatsoever...


Farm worker and wife arrested after burglars shot (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9516552/Farm-worker-and-wife-arrested-after-burglars-shot.html)

That case reminds me of the case of Tony Martin...

The farmer who shot the burglars, Tony Martin, was later charged with the murder of 16-year old Fred Barras and intent to cause grievous bodily harm to another intruder, Brendan Fearon.
In April 2000 he was found guilty of murder and jailed for life.

After an appeal Martin's conviction was later reduced to manslaughter and his sentence shortened to five years.

In January 2002 Martin was refused leave to take his case for acquittal to the House of Lords.

The two surviving burglars, Brendan Fearon, 29, and Darren Bark, 33, were jailed for three years and 30 months respectively.

In 2002 Fearon began a claim against Martin for up to £50,000 compensation for his injuries.
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/august/22/newsid_2500000/2500697.stm)

In all honesty, you make some fair points. And the Tony Martin case is one we totally agree on. I've posted on it myself, repeatedly. And I enjoyed the fact of Charlton Heston having offered him some support ... a fact reported by the BBC.

This all boils down to generations of Left-wing tinkering with social values, and taking decades of time to instill in us an anti-gun culture.

This is just one of a whole host of ways that Left-wing influence has proved poisonous to our health as a nation. I pray that you, in America, will never fall as victim to that as we have.

[hjmick]

In all honesty, you make some fair points. And the Tony Martin case is one we totally agree on. I've posted on it myself, repeatedly. And I enjoyed the fact of Charlton Heston having offered him some support ... a fact reported by the BBC.

This all boils down to generations of Left-wing tinkering with social values, and taking decades of time to instill in us an anti-gun culture.

This is just one of a whole host of ways that Left-wing influence has proved poisonous to our health as a nation. I pray that you, in America, will never fall as victim to that as we have.


You and me both, brother...

[Drummond]

You and me both, brother...:clap::clap::clap:

[Drummond]

--- Just a very small taste of the Mirror's sordid hatred of the Conservatives, taken beyond the point of common decency. In this case, a tasteless attack they planned on Lady Thatcher AFTER HER DEATH ... which, to be fair, they backed away from at the last minute ....

http://gordonsrepublic.brandrepublic.com/2013/04/16/daily-mirror-planned-anti-thatcher-ad-after-her-death/


In the wake of Margaret Thatcher’s death, the Guardian reports that Daily Mirror publisher Trinity Mirror considered running an ad campaign highlighting how its papers opposed her policies during the 1980s.

Trinity Mirror, which publishes the Labour supporting Daily and Sunday Mirror titles and the Sunday People, created a mock-up ad that takes aim at its Conservative supporting and pro-Thatcher rival The Sun.

While the mock-up ads were created in the end Trinity Mirror steered away from using them. Probably wisely. However, they have since leaked from the publisher’s Canary Wharf headquarters.

http://gordonsrepublic.brandrepublic.com/files/Mirror-Thatcher-ad-008-300x169.jpg

[aboutime]

--- Just a very small taste of the Mirror's sordid hatred of the Conservatives, taken beyond the point of common decency. In this case, a tasteless attack they planned on Lady Thatcher AFTER HER DEATH ... which, to be fair, they backed away from at the last minute ....

http://gordonsrepublic.brandrepublic.com/2013/04/16/daily-mirror-planned-anti-thatcher-ad-after-her-death/




Sir Drummond. If someone wanted to take a Tour through the MIRROR. Wouldn't that instantly mean 13 years bad luck? And, every actual mirror in the building would need to be cracked to make the RAG viable competition for Toilet Tissue?

[revelarts]

Meanwhile...
...
One crazy mixed up island...

To the OP...
I realize that the folks in the U.K. have never really had the level of freedoms their brothers and sisters here in the U.S. have enjoyed, what with the monarchy fearing an angry, dissatisfied citizenry and all... But to willingly, almost happily relinquish an already restricted freedom just makes no sense whatsoever...
Farm worker and wife arrested after burglars shot (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9516552/Farm-worker-and-wife-arrested-after-burglars-shot.html)

That case reminds me of the case of Tony Martin...
The farmer who shot the burglars, Tony Martin, was later charged with the murder of 16-year old Fred Barras and intent to cause grievous bodily harm to another intruder, Brendan Fearon.
In April 2000 he was found guilty of murder and jailed for life.
After an appeal Martin's conviction was later reduced to manslaughter and his sentence shortened to five years.
In January 2002 Martin was refused leave to take his case for acquittal to the House of Lords.
The two surviving burglars, Brendan Fearon, 29, and Darren Bark, 33, were jailed for three years and 30 months respectively.
In 2002 Fearon began a claim against Martin for up to £50,000 compensation for his injuries.
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/august/22/newsid_2500000/2500697.stm)

that's insane.

[jimnyc]

Slightly off topic - but Piers does remind me of someone who would lie to gain an advantage in a debate/discussion. Never liked him, but he completely lost me when Zimmerman's brother went on his show and he completely disrespected him and tossed out a shitload of crap at him rather than discussing the facts.

[Drummond]

Sir Drummond. If someone wanted to take a Tour through the MIRROR. Wouldn't that instantly mean 13 years bad luck? And, every actual mirror in the building would need to be cracked to make the RAG viable competition for Toilet Tissue?

I can well believe it would, Aboutime.

I know this much. Whenever I get near a copy of the Daily Mirror, I definitely feel unlucky .....

[aboutime]

I can well believe it would, Aboutime.

I know this much. Whenever I get near a copy of the Daily Mirror, I definitely feel unlucky .....



And that kind of feeling would be familiar to me. Since I would feel the same way about PRAVDA, and AL JAZEERA. Almost the Newspaper versions of 'THE THREE STOOGES'...on steroids.

[CSM]

Ancient Aliens, Global Warming, Bigfoot, Gun Control, The Lock Ness monster, Vampires, Zombies, liberalism ..... just sayin.