Conservatism-It's meanings in American politic its true opposition to Islam/terrorism [Archive] - Page 2 - Debate Policy

Drummond

11-06-2013, 01:54 PM

Interesting. Is that the source of your irrational hatred of me? But why start with #31? How about we look back at #30 and see how you welcome former board members. Is that thread a great example of your "civility"? I think not.

Contrasted against posts welcoming you back:

Of course that all makes post #31 provably true. :)

Considering that you find it tough to follow your own advice and ignore members, without trolling them, then you're not exactly in a moral position.

... h'm. Evidence of a 'conservative' offering support and good fellowship to another of his kind ??

Folks ... you decide !!!

fj1200

11-06-2013, 01:57 PM

... h'm. Evidence of a 'conservative' offering support and good fellowship to another of his kind ??

Folks ... you decide !!!

Yup. ;) Now you're in the unenviable position of having to prove that anyone that has ever posted in support of me is now a leftie? The holes you dig get deeper and deeper. :)

Drummond

11-06-2013, 02:02 PM

Now that you've twisted in the wind long enough. Proof that I didn't quote Sullivan's site:

Check the link. :laugh:

Congratulations. All this really proves is that it wasn't only Sullivan's blog piece which offered the wording in question. Now .. tell me. WHY has it taken you SO LONG to offer this, as you NOW have ?

Why DIDN'T YOU post this again, and again, in answer to my various challenges ? Why be so 'shy' in doing so, IF you had such a righteous case ?

There is one simple, and rather obvious, answer.

IT WAS NOT THE ORIGINAL SOURCE OF YOUR SIGNATURE WORDING ... IT WAS NOT WHAT YOU FIRST FOUND. SULLIVAN'S SITE WAS !!

As I've said before, and as you continue to prove, you are a waste of my time.

Drummond

11-06-2013, 02:06 PM

Yup. ;) Now you're in the unenviable position of having to prove that anyone that has ever posted in support of me is now a leftie? The holes you dig get deeper and deeper. :)

Their degree of Leftieness is a matter for them to reconcile with their consciences, FJ (to the extent that they can). I have nothing to prove .. especially as I've done such a good job already in outing YOU.

Now run along, and stop wasting my time ..

fj1200

11-06-2013, 02:09 PM

Congratulations. All this really proves is that it wasn't only Sullivan's blog piece which offered the wording in question. Now .. tell me. WHY has it taken you SO LONG to offer this, as you NOW have ?

:laugh: I love to see you twist. :laugh:

fj1200

11-06-2013, 02:11 PM

Their degree of Leftieness is a matter for them to reconcile with their consciences, FJ (to the extent that they can). I have nothing to prove .. especially as I've done such a good job already in outing YOU.

Now run along, and stop wasting my time ..

:laugh: I still love to see you twist in the wind. :laugh: You know that I can make two clicks and find many more conservatives who don't oppose me than the two knuckleheads that you think are conservatives who do. ;)

Drummond

11-06-2013, 02:27 PM

:laugh: I still love to see you twist in the wind. :laugh: You know that I can make two clicks and find many more conservatives who don't oppose me than the two knuckleheads that you think are conservatives who do. ;)

FJ, you may be a legend in your own mind. To my mind, you're just being delusional.

What you call 'twisting' is a simple act (or more than one) of exposure of the weakness of your 'case'. Nothing stopped you posting the Telegraph link, AGAIN and AGAIN, in answer to all my various posts ... except ...

... for just the one obvious, glaring problem you've had, all this time. Namely ... IT WASN'T THE SOURCE MATERIAL YOU STARTED OUT WITH.

... Nope. SULLIVAN'S BLOG was.

And, for why ? Because you think like him, argue like him ... he, being someone CLAIMING to be a Conservative, whilst all the while, he's been independently outed as someone sharing, and arguing for, many LEFT wing views.

I'm in no doubt that you model yourself on him.

Now .. are you going to stop wasting my time ? Or is your need for attention getting the better of you ???

fj1200

11-06-2013, 02:39 PM

What you call 'twisting' is a simple act (or more than one) of exposure of the weakness of your 'case'. Nothing stopped you posting the Telegraph link, AGAIN and AGAIN, in answer to all my various posts ... except ...

... for just the one obvious, glaring problem you've had, all this time. Namely ... IT WASN'T THE SOURCE MATERIAL YOU STARTED OUT WITH.

... Nope. SULLIVAN'S BLOG was.

Man Boy you're dumb as F' and lie like the wind. :laugh: Your twisted world thinks I went in my way-back machine so that I could alter a post to show some truth which you now have to twist to suit your agenda. Pages and pages of you twisting your way into something you can't prove was worth it for the comedic value... that and the whole burden of proof is on the accuser thing. :)

And newsflash for you; Your fetish with Sullivan should be worrying to you because you've spent way more time on his site these past two? weeks than I have ever spent paying attention to him. ;)

Now .. are you going to stop wasting my time ? Or is your need for attention getting the better of you ???

Well, you are the one who is spending so much time on me and my "agenda." :laugh:

aboutime

11-06-2013, 03:05 PM

Drummond

11-06-2013, 03:12 PM

Man Boy you're dumb as F' and lie like the wind. :laugh: Your twisted world thinks I went in my way-back machine so that I could alter a post to show some truth which you now have to twist to suit your agenda. Pages and pages of you twisting your way into something you can't prove was worth it for the comedic value... that and the whole burden of proof is on the accuser thing. :)

And newsflash for you; Your fetish with Sullivan should be worrying to you because you've spent way more time on his site these past two? weeks than I have ever spent paying attention to him. ;)

Well, you are the one who is spending so much time on me and my "agenda." :laugh:

Not just a delusion, but layer upon layer of them.

What makes you think I've spent any more time on Sullivan than I've had to ? YOU are the one who copies what he does, and YOU are the one who first went to his site to extract some wording which you, like he did, thought you could use to bolster a fiction about yourself.

You can't get around the fact that IF your source for your signature text came from a source other than Sullivan's site, you would naturally have posted that evidence whenever you could. But you wholly failed to do so. Why? Because any site other than Sullivan's was incidental to the truth of where you DID get your material from, originally.

No, FJ, you've been outed as the fraud you are. A Left-winger with a characteristic lack of regard for truth, an opportunist who'll use what it takes to further your Left wing agenda (e.g finding any excuse to be a pro-terrorist sanitiser and protector ... they, according to you, are 'human beings' whose 'human rights are sacrosanct') ... and in between, easily the rudest, most abusive excuse for a blogger I've encountered in years. I even spent much of one post just listing your abusive remarks from THIS THREAD ALONE !

Why am I still bothering with you at all ? Since you're such a waste of space (and of my time) I really have no good answer.

-- Time I stopped, then. No doubt your great need for attention will make you try and goad ever-more responses ? To which I say: GET SOME HELP. You clearly need it.

aboutime

11-06-2013, 03:18 PM

Not just a delusion, but layer upon layer of them.

What makes you think I've spent any more time on Sullivan than I've had to ? YOU are the one who copies what he does, and YOU are the one who first went to his site to extract some wording which you, like he did, thought you could use to bolster a fiction about yourself.

You can't get around the fact that IF your source for your signature text came from a source other than Sullivan's site, you would naturally have posted that evidence whenever you could. But you wholly failed to do so. Why? Because any site other than Sullivan's was incidental to the truth of where you DID get your material from, originally.

No, FJ, you've been outed as the fraud you are. A Left-winger with a characteristic lack of regard for truth, an opportunist who'll use what it takes to further your Left wing agenda (e.g finding any excuse to be a pro-terrorist sanitiser and protector ... they, according to you, are 'human beings' whose 'human rights are sacrosanct') ... and in between, easily the rudest, most abusive excuse for a blogger I've encountered in years. I even spent much of one post just listing your abusive remarks from THIS THREAD ALONE !

Why am I still bothering with you at all ? Since you're such a waste of space (and of my time) I really have no good answer.

-- Time I stopped, then. No doubt your great need for attention will make you try and goad ever-more responses ? To which I say: GET SOME HELP. You clearly need it.

Sir Drummond. You cannot HELP those who do not want to be helped. Much like, you cannot HELP Trolls, and Bullies who ply Forums on the Internet. Trying to drum up business to get others to feel miserable, and frustrated like the Troll, and Bully.
In other words. You are correct. Time to stop wasting time on fj. Let's wait and see if he changes AFTER he graduates from PRE-PRE-SCHOOL mentality, and idea's.

fj1200

11-06-2013, 04:58 PM

aboutime

11-06-2013, 05:04 PM

I agree, your delusional. And a liar. The thing is you can't back up a thing you say so why on earth should you be given any credibility?

Sir Drummond. ABOVE...more of the same. And he doesn't realize how the continued need to say, or repeat everything works so well to prove what we know already.

Hope fj keeps on, keepin' on. It's almost like that long, lost, Gift...that keeps on giving.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

11-06-2013, 07:03 PM

Interesting. Is that the source of your irrational hatred of me? But why start with #31? How about we look back at #30 and see how you welcome former board members. Is that thread a great example of your "civility"? I think not.

Contrasted against posts welcoming you back:

Of course that all makes post #31 provably true. :)

Considering that you find it tough to follow your own advice and ignore members, without trolling them, then you're not exactly in a moral position. Good God man, you using Conhog and his phony crap as an example is off the charts for me to read! The guy was A DUMBASS , A LIAR AND AN ASSHAT OF THE LOWEST ORDER (the very idea of using him ) THAT was as fake as a damn three dollar bill. A VERY BAD EXAMPLE that cuts no mustard with me Hoss. SORRY BUT YOU'LL HAVE TO DO FAR, FAR BETTER THAN THAT TO MAKE SUCH A POINT.. JUST SAYIN'.

fj1200

11-06-2013, 07:19 PM

Good God man...

Hold on there babalouie... I didn't bring that thread into play so the example stands. If he wanted to show examples of his civility then he should have chosen differently. :)

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

11-06-2013, 07:38 PM

Hold on there babalouie... I didn't bring that thread into play so the example stands. If he wanted to show examples of his civility then he should have chosen differently. :) ok, this is that post number 30.....

If Debate Policy was listed on the Dow, the board would have lost more then 50% yesterday. I for one am shocked to see so many people (including staff) welcome this piece of trash back with open arms Now its only wrong if its a great lie and a complete mischaracterization of the man. Otherwise it may not be nice but is the truth. And the truth should be freely offered without regard to how its received. If you care to prove it was a total fabrication then I will agree with you but Hoss I GOT TO WARN YOU I KNOW ALL ABOUT THE PERSON HE WAS COMMENTING ON AND A SNOWBALL HAS A BETTER CHANCE IN HELL THAN YOU EVER CONVINCING ME THAT HE WAS WRONG IN THAT COMMENT. I am just being honest on this.. --Tyr

fj1200

11-06-2013, 07:46 PM

Otherwise it may not be nice but is the truth. And the truth should be freely offered without regard to how its received.

I know your opinion on the man but the point that was raised was "civility" and all I did was point out the differences in civility in a thread that I did not bring up. He also pointed out my post which had at least as much truth as anyone else has offered because if anything is clear it's that rsr does indeed "hold a grudge like no other." One only need to look at some posts upon his return that trolled at least three members into threads that they had not been in prior. :)

Besides, if market value by post count was the source of "value" then DP would have doubled that day. :poke:

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

11-06-2013, 08:12 PM

I know your opinion on the man but the point that was raised was "civility" and all I did was point out the differences in civility in a thread that I did not bring up. He also pointed out my post which had at least as much truth as anyone else has offered because if anything is clear it's that rsr does indeed "hold a grudge like no other." One only need to look at some posts upon his return that trolled at least three members into threads that they had not been in prior. :)

Besides, if market value by post count was the source of "value" then DP would have doubled that day. :poke: Ok, but who here hasn't been rude to another member AT ONE TIME OR ANOTHER except maybe Abbey, Trinity and a couple other ladies. I am guilty which I freely admit. I have made efforts recently to be very much less so. I plead no excuse except my being put into war mode immediately upon my arrival here. Even with that I should have backed off sooner. Now let me say this for the record, I admire a man that can hold a grudge when it is truly justified! And its not my call how long such a grudge should be held by another man. I still hold a grudge against a supervisor I had over 31 years ago and yes I will stomp his ass damn good if I ever catch him out in the right place at the right time. I never lose sight of that goal.. He moved far away shortly after I sent word of my goal. So at least I had that satisfaction for 31 years now. I may be a man with many faults but failing to deliver a well deserved justice when possible isn't one of them. Trust me on that.. --Tyr

Arbo

11-06-2013, 11:20 PM

…

I know what you replied to and what you replied with. That's why I said you appear to be very clueless. Clearly you didn't understand what you replied to, thus making your reply look foolish (again).

Let me spell it out for you a bit more in hopes that perhaps it might sink through your thick skull… it is humorous to watch you and a few other tards rant on about 'lefties', when anyone with 2 functioning brain cells that has read posts from said 'lefties' could clearly see how stupid your claims of 'lefty' are. Do you get it this time or do you need more explanation.

logroller

11-07-2013, 01:17 AM

Ok, but who here hasn't been rude to another member AT ONE TIME OR ANOTHER except maybe Abbey, Trinity and a couple other ladies. I am guilty which I freely admit. I have made efforts recently to be very much less so. I plead no excuse except my being put into war mode immediately upon my arrival here. Even with that I should have backed off sooner. Now let me say this for the record, I admire a man that can hold a grudge when it is truly justified! And its not my call how long such a grudge should be held by another man. I still hold a grudge against a supervisor I had over 31 years ago and yes I will stomp his ass damn good if I ever catch him out in the right place at the right time. I never lose sight of that goal.. He moved far away shortly after I sent word of my goal. So at least I had that satisfaction for 31 years now. I may be a man with many faults but failing to deliver a well deserved justice when possible isn't one of them. Trust me on that.. --Tyr
Well that grudge led himto be rude to members and staff, including abbey; so I believe your admiration in the instant case is ill-supported and speaks more to your own grudge and/or bias.

red states rule

11-07-2013, 04:11 AM

Not just a delusion, but layer upon layer of them.

What makes you think I've spent any more time on Sullivan than I've had to ? YOU are the one who copies what he does, and YOU are the one who first went to his site to extract some wording which you, like he did, thought you could use to bolster a fiction about yourself.

You can't get around the fact that IF your source for your signature text came from a source other than Sullivan's site, you would naturally have posted that evidence whenever you could. But you wholly failed to do so. Why? Because any site other than Sullivan's was incidental to the truth of where you DID get your material from, originally.

No, FJ, you've been outed as the fraud you are. A Left-winger with a characteristic lack of regard for truth, an opportunist who'll use what it takes to further your Left wing agenda (e.g finding any excuse to be a pro-terrorist sanitiser and protector ... they, according to you, are 'human beings' whose 'human rights are sacrosanct') ... and in between, easily the rudest, most abusive excuse for a blogger I've encountered in years. I even spent much of one post just listing your abusive remarks from THIS THREAD ALONE !

Why am I still bothering with you at all ? Since you're such a waste of space (and of my time) I really have no good answer.

-- Time I stopped, then. No doubt your great need for attention will make you try and goad ever-more responses ? To which I say: GET SOME HELP. You clearly need it.

So FU bellows how he loves to see you twist. Looks like he is one of "those" as well (Not hat there is anything wrong with that) as being an angry childlike liberal

You are beating FU like a government mule Drummond. Have fun

red states rule

11-07-2013, 05:07 AM

FJ, you may be a legend in your own mind. To my mind, you're just being delusional.

What you call 'twisting' is a simple act (or more than one) of exposure of the weakness of your 'case'. Nothing stopped you posting the Telegraph link, AGAIN and AGAIN, in answer to all my various posts ... except ...

... for just the one obvious, glaring problem you've had, all this time. Namely ... IT WASN'T THE SOURCE MATERIAL YOU STARTED OUT WITH.

... Nope. SULLIVAN'S BLOG was.

And, for why ? Because you think like him, argue like him ... he, being someone CLAIMING to be a Conservative, whilst all the while, he's been independently outed as someone sharing, and arguing for, many LEFT wing views.

I'm in no doubt that you model yourself on him.

Now .. are you going to stop wasting my time ? Or is your need for attention getting the better of you ???

Drummond, you are exposing more and more about FU. No doubt he is a loony tune leftie but know you have brought FU out of the closet.

That would explain his hate toward women and using women to attempt to insult people

I can understand his hate towards women - it started the night a hooker turned him down telling him she had a headache

It is sad to see FU disintegrate into a stumbling, bumbling, babbling liberal idiot. But it could not happen to a nicer guy!

fj1200

11-07-2013, 08:55 AM

Ok, but who here hasn't been rude to another member AT ONE TIME OR ANOTHER except maybe Abbey, Trinity and a couple other ladies. I am guilty which I freely admit. ... And its not my call how long such a grudge should be held by another man.

I can't/won't argue that point but when one presents a thread as example of their being civil then one shouldn't be surprised when that whole thread is used to present evidence that they are in fact NOT civil. :thumb: Nevertheless when that grudge leads one to lie about other members and disrupt threads in violation of rules then it's a fair guess that it might have been held a hair too long. ;)

Arbo

11-07-2013, 08:59 AM

I can't/won't argue that point but when one presents a thread as example of their being civil then one shouldn't be surprised when that whole thread is used to present evidence that they are in fact NOT civil. :thumb: Nevertheless when that grudge leads one to lie about other members and disrupt threads in violation of rules then it's a fair guess that it might have been held a hair too long. ;)

You skipped the repeated claims of how he was going to 'beat ass' on all sorts of people. Sounds more like the high school 'me play football' meathead than a civilized (or intelligent) person. As I pointed out in another thread, same sort of propensity for violence as extremists of a certain religion that he hates. LOL.

fj1200

11-07-2013, 09:05 AM

... FU ... FU ...

It's nice to see that I pwn you too. :)

... FU. ... leftie ... FU ... FU ...

I invite you to continue your failure in pointing out my "leftie" positions. :laugh: Oh yeah, and prove your lies too. ;) It's just a shame that we have idiots like you who think they are the face of educated conservatism here and in the world. But take heart, at least if you stopped ignoring like a middle school girl here then you wouldn't have actual conservatives continuing to make you look the fool.

fj1200

11-07-2013, 09:09 AM

You skipped...

No, Tyr was not the subject of my post. I also don't hole grudges. :thumb:

Drummond

11-07-2013, 02:41 PM

Drummond, you are exposing more and more about FU. No doubt he is a loony tune leftie but know you have brought FU out of the closet.

That would explain his hate toward women and using women to attempt to insult people

I can understand his hate towards women - it started the night a hooker turned him down telling him she had a headache

It is sad to see FU disintegrate into a stumbling, bumbling, babbling liberal idiot. But it could not happen to a nicer guy!:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh::laugh: :laugh:

Drummond

11-07-2013, 02:48 PM

I can't/won't argue that point ......:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?43641-Conservatism-It-s-meanings-in-American-politic-its-true-opposition-to-Islam-terrorism&p=671774#post671774

fj1200

11-07-2013, 02:55 PM

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?43641-Conservatism-It-s-meanings-in-American-politic-its-true-opposition-to-Islam-terrorism&p=671774#post671774

:confused: :dunno:

Drummond

11-07-2013, 03:02 PM

… it is humorous to watch you and a few other tards rant on about 'lefties', when anyone with 2 functioning brain cells that has read posts from said 'lefties' could clearly see how stupid your claims of 'lefty' are. Do you get it this time or do you need more explanation.

I need no lectures from you, thanks.

Let me simply say that anyone asserting that I can't spot a Left winger from a mile away (.. or in this case, a couple of thousand ?) just isn't being realistic. In my society, we've had GENERATIONS of Left-leaning politicians and their many sympathisers positively swamp our culture. They're everywhere ! The BBC is riddled with it, the Guardian, the Daily Mirror likewise, I can't recall a time when I couldn't spot them in the workplace.

Socialist influence, I'm sure, is more widespread and more entrenched here than in the US, and its supporters even less bashful about promoting it than in your part of the world. So to suppose I 'can't' spot them is, frankly, a ludicrous suggestion of yours.

I shall continue to tell it as I see it, Arbo, whether or not you approve.

Drummond

11-07-2013, 03:03 PM

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

11-07-2013, 06:44 PM

Well that grudge led himto be rude to members and staff, including abbey; so I believe your admiration in the instant case is ill-supported and speaks more to your own grudge and/or bias. One may admire a man for his stand on an issue without applauding other comments he may make when angry or provoked. You playing off my supporting a member being rude to Abbey don't cut it Hoss. I simply don't play that way. Because I've never seen a solitary example of Abbey ever deserving such treatment. Sure I know how to hold a grudge and I am no different than anybody else where being biased is concerned. Paint that anyway you care too but I'll damn sure call you on it when you paint it with a total falsehood as was your example of citing that I in anyway supported Abbey suffering rude comments ..By the way, had I ever saw such comments you could bet your right arm I'd have replied to them myself..-Tyr

Arbo

11-07-2013, 11:04 PM

I need no lectures from you, thanks.

Let me simply say that anyone asserting that I can't spot a Left winger from a mile away (.. or in this case, a couple of thousand ?) just isn't being realistic. In my society, we've had GENERATIONS of Left-leaning politicians and their many sympathisers positively swamp our culture. They're everywhere ! The BBC is riddled with it, the Guardian, the Daily Mirror likewise, I can't recall a time when I couldn't spot them in the workplace.

Socialist influence, I'm sure, is more widespread and more entrenched here than in the US, and its supporters even less bashful about promoting it than in your part of the world. So to suppose I 'can't' spot them is, frankly, a ludicrous suggestion of yours.

I shall continue to tell it as I see it, Arbo, whether or not you approve.

You are of course free to call it as you incorrectly see it. My point merely being that you have achieved negative credibility by continuing to make such insanely incorrect acquisitions. It is noted as well that you and others that claim such thing, have yet to back any of it up. Should be easy, going trough posts and pulling out all the 'lefty' stuff to prove your point.

:rolleyes:

Drummond

11-08-2013, 04:12 PM

You are of course free to call it as you incorrectly see it. My point merely being that you have achieved negative credibility by continuing to make such insanely incorrect acquisitions. It is noted as well that you and others that claim such thing, have yet to back any of it up. Should be easy, going trough posts and pulling out all the 'lefty' stuff to prove your point.

:rolleyes:

I don't understand what you mean by 'acquisitions' Unless .. you meant 'accusations' .. ?? I'll assume you did.

You seem to think that I haven't backed up what I've been asserting ? I fail to understand that.

Observe, study FULLY, the contents of the post I'm supplying a link to, here ...

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?43641-Conservatism-It-s-meanings-in-American-politic-its-true-opposition-to-Islam-terrorism&p=671987#post671987

I trust that this corrects matters for you. But, if not ... well, I don't doubt that yet more examples can be supplied, if you want them.

fj1200

11-08-2013, 05:19 PM

You seem to think that I haven't backed up what I've been asserting ? I fail to understand that.

Observe, study FULLY, the contents of the post I'm supplying a link to, here ...

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?43641-Conservatism-It-s-meanings-in-American-politic-its-true-opposition-to-Islam-terrorism&p=671987#post671987

You keep pointing back to a failed post since refuted. :dunno: Someone with an ego would wonder about that ;)

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot

11-08-2013, 10:18 PM

red states rule

11-09-2013, 03:16 AM

The main two and strongest opposition to the Islamic takeover of USA is Conservatives and Christians. Obama makes war on both every chance he gets. There is no such thing as a liberal Christian . A CHRISTIAN CAN NOT BE A CHRISTIAN and abide by and support liberalism IMHO. Obama's antigun crusade was an attack upon primarily those two groups because those two groups are the primarily the core of the patriots in this nation. --Tyr

In speech's Obama has called on his supporters to put their heels on the throats of Tea Party members, to get in face of Republicans, ahs called his political opponents enemies, and bragged how his supporters will bring a gun to a knife fight

Yet he refuses to call acts of terrorism terrorism, and continues to treat acts of terrorism as crimes and not acts of war

Seems Obama has the typical liberal priorities that embolden terrorists to continue their attacks

fj1200

11-09-2013, 07:44 AM

Drummond

11-10-2013, 03:49 PM

Yes, you are a joke, the challenge is not. Act like an adult, use your words, prove something. We can have a party and cake and such to celebrate your first time doing it.

Tut tut.

Such gratuitous denigration is evidence of concern for your position.

You rejected the idea of looking at the evidence I posted on incredibly flimsy grounds, so much so that I really had to ask if it was a joke. And, having done so once, why would I think you wouldn't do it again ?

But your support for FJ remains rock solid. It doesn't matter to you that I can defend what I say, and HAVE done. You're not interested in that, as you've proved. Support for a comrade, however .. that's a different matter.

fj1200

09-26-2014, 01:01 PM

Recently, especially in Asia, some governments have urged that the standards of Human Rights laid down in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights attached to the UN Charter, are Western and therefore not suitable for Asia and parts of the Third World whose cultures and circumstances are different. But the dispositions of human nature are the same everywhere—the affection of mother for child, the wish to do better for the family, the desire of the child to please, the recognition of courage and heroism, and the suffering and torture are felt the same by all human beings. Further, I have no difficulty in accepting the view that human nature is naturally endowed with a moral sense and a disposition (albeit if sometimes fragile) to make moral judgements. It's not only Western man who is created in God's image.
. (http://www.margaretthatcher.org/document/108322)

aboutime

09-26-2014, 05:28 PM

Tut tut.

Such gratuitous denigration is evidence of concern for your position.

You rejected the idea of looking at the evidence I posted on incredibly flimsy grounds, so much so that I really had to ask if it was a joke. And, having done so once, why would I think you wouldn't do it again ?

But your support for FJ remains rock solid. It doesn't matter to you that I can defend what I say, and HAVE done. You're not interested in that, as you've proved. Support for a comrade, however .. that's a different matter.

Sir Drummond. Remember this?....http://icansayit.com/images/arbo.jpg

Born2DecadesLate

09-29-2014, 01:13 PM

I see no point in another attempt to have a rational conversation with you; You do not have the capacity within you. I know this will go in one eye and out the other, whether it gets into your head at all, but your view is based on the emotions of hate and rage. Conservatives should see the issues for what they are and be able to rationally discuss the issues. There is copious evidence that torture is counterproductive that you constantly ignore and your attempts to couch the discussion in terms of justice is evidence of your emotions on the issue.

I see no point. If you want to have a discussion on conservatism then we can have at it and if you truly are the conservative you think you are then we won't have much disagreement but your torture/terrorism stance is utterly contrary to a conservative position.

BS bro, torture works, and if any of you think that a little waterboarding and or sleep deprivation is all that US forces were doing to get information LOL, and if any of you thought that things changed just because Obama said they've changed LOL.

You know the real reason GITMO hasn't been closed in 6 years under Obama despite his promises? Because someone at the CIA told him "Mr President if you close GITMO nosy reporters are liable to start digging and find where we're REALLY torturing people at.

I've watched through a window as Mossad took a hammer to some terrorist's balls. "oh the US doesn't do things like that" No we don't , we just stand by while our allies do; AND if you knew the amount of real information gleaned from such tactics you would never say it didn't work.

Now of course whether we should be involved at all whether torture works or not is another matter entirely. Personally I say no.

fj1200

09-29-2014, 01:40 PM

BS bro, torture works, and if any of you think that a little waterboarding and or sleep deprivation is all that US forces were doing to get information LOL, and if any of you thought that things changed just because Obama said they've changed LOL.

You know the real reason GITMO hasn't been closed in 6 years under Obama despite his promises? Because someone at the CIA told him "Mr President if you close GITMO nosy reporters are liable to start digging and find where we're REALLY torturing people at.

I've watched through a window as Mossad took a hammer to some terrorist's balls. "oh the US doesn't do things like that" No we don't , we just stand by while our allies do; AND if you knew the amount of real information gleaned from such tactics you would never say it didn't work.

Now of course whether we should be involved at all whether torture works or not is another matter entirely. Personally I say no.

Does Torture Work? (http://www.theguardian.com/science/the-lay-scientist/2010/nov/04/2)

In spite of decades of use, and ample opportunity to gather statistics, there just isn't any scientific evidence beyond a few dubious anecdotes to show that torture works. Torture is an extreme method, and before we even reach the ethical and moral debate over its use, the effectiveness of it must be demonstrated to some reasonable degree. The burden of proof lies with the people who seek to torture. Any trials would of course be deeply unethical, but it's not like they don't have plenty of past experience to draw data from.

And I think I agree with much of your post, I'm sure we've done worse but many pro-torture folks point to three waterboarding instances as their evidence. I have no problem with GITMO for what it is although I do think we need to deal with the people that are in there. And I clearly don't have firsthand knowledge but what I said in the post you quoted was that it's counterproductive.

And was that a no that you think we shouldn't torture?

Born2DecadesLate

09-29-2014, 01:47 PM

Does Torture Work? (http://www.theguardian.com/science/the-lay-scientist/2010/nov/04/2)

And I think I agree with much of your post, I'm sure we've done worse but many pro-torture folks point to three waterboarding instances as their evidence. I have no problem with GITMO for what it is although I do think we need to deal with the people that are in there. And I clearly don't have firsthand knowledge but what I said in the post you quoted was that it's counterproductive.

And was that a no that you think we shouldn't torture?

Of course you have no proof that torture works because I, and others like me, are prevented from saying "hey I beat the shit out of ______ and he told me ____________ and it was true"

we are prevented from disclosing so many things. Unless you're a scumbag like Snowden you are going to honor the reams of documents you've signed agreeing to keep quiet.

but , between you and me, you hit someone in the balls with a hammer enough times and they will break. Will everything they tell you be true? No of course not, that is what coorebarating intel is for. But, they won't keep anything from you either.

But , no. I do NOT believe the US should be torturing people, even though I myself have done it. And here's why.

It dehumanizes the detainee. No, I don't mean it makes them feel less human, I frankly don't care what they feel. I mean it makes them SEEM less human, which leads the person doing the torturing to go further and further. because they begin to think of the other person as non human It's not as a big step from water boarding to pulling teeth out with a pair of pliers as one may think.

fj1200

09-29-2014, 03:57 PM

Of course you have no proof that torture works because I, and others like me, are prevented from saying "hey I beat the shit out of ______ and he told me ____________ and it was true"

we are prevented from disclosing so many things. Unless you're a scumbag like Snowden you are going to honor the reams of documents you've signed agreeing to keep quiet.

but , between you and me, you hit someone in the balls with a hammer enough times and they will break. Will everything they tell you be true? No of course not, that is what coorebarating intel is for. But, they won't keep anything from you either.

But , no. I do NOT believe the US should be torturing people, even though I myself have done it. And here's why.

It dehumanizes the detainee. No, I don't mean it makes them feel less human, I frankly don't care what they feel. I mean it makes them SEEM less human, which leads the person doing the torturing to go further and further. because they begin to think of the other person as non human It's not as a big step from water boarding to pulling teeth out with a pair of pliers as one may think.

I could only counter the first part with some CIA guy or ex-interrogator corroborating any other links I've posted. And honestly, revelarts will bury you with links like that if you think it's necessary. :laugh: And anyway I think the argument would be unnecessary as it seems we agree on the overall point. I've posted this before and it goes a little further.

1) Torture violates the dignity of the human being, made in the image of God.
2) Torture mistreats the vulnerable and violates the demands of justice.
3) Authorizing torture trusts government too much.
4) Torture dehumanizes the torturer.
5) Torture erodes the character of the nation that tortures.
http://justpeacemaking.org/david-gushee-on-the-torture-and-the-detainee-task-force-part-i/

I like number 3 because it's nice when a leftie makes a rightie argument. ;)

Born2DecadesLate

09-29-2014, 04:07 PM

I could only counter the first part with some CIA guy or ex-interrogator corroborating any other links I've posted. And honestly, revelarts will bury you with links like that if you think it's necessary. :laugh: And anyway I think the argument would be unnecessary as it seems we agree on the overall point. I've posted this before and it goes a little further.

http://justpeacemaking.org/david-gushee-on-the-torture-and-the-detainee-task-force-part-i/

I like number 3 because it's nice when a leftie makes a rightie argument. ;)

I agree with you about not using torture. I wholeheartedly disagree with all claims that it doesn't glean the information you want. It does. What every person who has used torture will tell you is that it yields false positives as well as positive positives . No one will ever say "nope, torture doesn't work , some guys can resist and not tell you what you want to know" because NO ONE can resist, everyone breaks, eventually.

So, that isn't why torture doesn't work, it doesn't work because people will say ANYTHING to make pain stop. That anything WILL include what you really want to know, but often times sifting through the unwanted garbage is more time consuming than it is worth, OR by the time you do, the real intel is already outdated. It certainly doesn't do any good electrocute a man's testicles and then get the intel you need too late to do anything with it. So in THAT sense, torture often does not work, but in the sense of " can anyone withstand torture and not break?" the answer is no, torture does work in that regard

And I don't know who Revelarts is, but I suspect if his family were abducted by Muslim scum and one of them was captured and he was given the choice of whether an FBI agent in a suit interrogated the guy, or I did, I suspect he'd choose me.

However, I still maintain that as a general rule the US should not torture.

fj1200

09-29-2014, 04:11 PM

^Fair enough.

jimnyc

09-29-2014, 04:30 PM

I could only counter the first part with some CIA guy or ex-interrogator corroborating any other links I've posted. And honestly, revelarts will bury you with links like that if you think it's necessary. :laugh:

I love you Rev, but this was a little comical. :coffee:

Give the man credit though, while he posts novels, he DOES take the time to research what he believes in!

Born2DecadesLate

09-29-2014, 04:59 PM

Just a hunch here, but it seems this board has mostly members who at least claim to be conservatives?

Abbey Marie

09-29-2014, 05:52 PM

I agree with you about not using torture. I wholeheartedly disagree with all claims that it doesn't glean the information you want. It does. What every person who has used torture will tell you is that it yields false positives as well as positive positives . No one will ever say "nope, torture doesn't work , some guys can resist and not tell you what you want to know" because NO ONE can resist, everyone breaks, eventually.

So, that isn't why torture doesn't work, it doesn't work because people will say ANYTHING to make pain stop. That anything WILL include what you really want to know, but often times sifting through the unwanted garbage is more time consuming than it is worth, OR by the time you do, the real intel is already outdated. It certainly doesn't do any good electrocute a man's testicles and then get the intel you need too late to do anything with it. So in THAT sense, torture often does not work, but in the sense of " can anyone withstand torture and not break?" the answer is no, torture does work in that regard

And I don't know who Revelarts is, but I suspect if his family were abducted by Muslim scum and one of them was captured and he was given the choice of whether an FBI agent in a suit interrogated the guy, or I did, I suspect he'd choose me.

However, I still maintain that as a general rule the US should not torture.

Perhaps our poster knows if spanking elicits good info. or outdated intel...