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fj1200
11-13-2013, 11:31 PM
Cold Case JFK
The 1963 assassination of President John F. Kennedy is re-investigated using modern technology and contemporary scientific techniques. Included: ballistics experts reconstruct the shooting in a test of the "single bullet theory."

I don't have a good link but watched Cold Case: JFK on NOVA tonight. Forensically speaking the single-bullet theory holds up and debunks the possibility of a grassy knoll shooter. It mostly backs up the Warren Commission and criticizes the conclusions of the House Select Committee on Assassinations. Very interesting was the complete bungling of the autopsy and the indepth discussion of the Carcano rifle and bullet.

revelarts
11-14-2013, 06:12 AM
Single Bullet theory is BS.

the Bullet found on the stretcher in parkland hospital was Pristine. But the Dr.s and Nurses at the Hospital say they pulled bullet fragments from Connely Wrist and the rest of it from his thigh. couldn't have been on the stretcher.

and the Audio recording from the police radio definitively shows more shots that alleged by Warren.

And you've got 50+ witnesses that say shots were fired from the knoll.

And you've got most of the people who have tried to reproduce the shot LOH was suppose to have fired saying they could not do it. for multiple reason starting with the crappy rifle with slow bolt action. But somehow LOH did it nonchalantly. since he was seen in a lower floor lunch room before and after the the murder.

And you have the later House Select Committee on Assassination, congressional investigation concluding there was a more people involved.

to name a few Items...

oldy but goody
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHaMxA5w4_Y

well done modern summery
<iframe src="//www.youtube.com/embed/65N3eP2yvbQ?feature=player_embedded" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="360" width="640"></iframe>

<iframe src="//www.youtube.com/embed/3dslC2FAReg?feature=player_embedded" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="360" width="640"></iframe>

revelarts
11-14-2013, 08:54 AM
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/xnlhX5wkDWI?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

fj1200
11-14-2013, 09:07 AM
Single Bullet theory is BS.

the Bullet found on the stretcher in parkland hospital was Pristine. But the Dr.s and Nurses at the Hospital say they pulled bullet fragments from Connely Wrist and the rest of it from his thigh. couldn't have been on the stretcher.

and the Audio recording from the police radio definitively shows more shots that alleged by Warren.

And you've got 50+ witnesses that say shots were fired from the knoll.

And you've got most of the people who have tried to reproduce the shot LOH was suppose to have fired saying they could not do it. for multiple reason starting with the crappy rifle with slow bolt action. But somehow LOH did it nonchalantly. since he was seen in a lower floor lunch room before and after the the murder.

And you have the later House Select Committee on Assassination, congressional investigation concluding there was a more people involved.

Ballistics test show that the bullet could go through 3 ft of wood and look pristine, it also showed that after going through flesh (ballistics gel) that it comes out in a yaw which corresponds to the entry would on Connely. The bullet also wasn't "pristine," it was squashed to some extent which would explain bullet fragments found in the wounds.

The audio was far from definitive and three shots echoing around Dealey Plaza would mislead one to think that they heard more shots let alone where they came from; there were plenty of witnesses who had no idea where they might have heard shots from. The forensics evidence from reviewing as much of the original information as possible, x-rays, clothes, autopsy photos, etc. doesn't support the kill shot coming from the front anyway.

The House Select committee was fairly well wrong, misreading the evidence will lead to false conclusions.

revelarts
11-14-2013, 09:16 AM
Ballistics test show that the bullet could go through 3 ft of wood and look pristine, it also showed that after going through flesh (ballistics gel) that it comes out in a yaw which corresponds to the entry would on Connely. The bullet also wasn't "pristine," it was squashed to some extent which would explain bullet fragments found in the wounds.

The audio was far from definitive and three shots echoing around Dealey Plaza would mislead one to think that they heard more shots let alone where they came from; there were plenty of witnesses who had no idea where they might have heard shots from. The forensics evidence from reviewing as much of the original information as possible, x-rays, clothes, autopsy photos, etc. doesn't support the kill shot coming from the front anyway.

The House Select committee was fairly well wrong, misreading the evidence will lead to false conclusions.

the bullet fragments added up to more than the the extremely small defects of the the bullet.
And again the Bullet was still in Conely's thigh when it was supposedly found on the stretcher.
so that bullet could NOT be the real bullet.

the audio was rigorously reviewed by experts that of course took into account echos that's basic, and the echos were counted and ruled out, for the extra shots.

Do you really want to go into the problems with the x-rays and autopsy photos? it's horrific what was done and redone lost and changed there.

the House select Committee was fairly well right. the Warren commission was a cover up.

fj1200
11-14-2013, 09:26 AM
the bullet fragments added up to more than the the extremely small defects of the the bullet.
And again the Bullet was still in Conely's thigh when it was supposedly found on the stretcher.
so that bullet could NOT be the real bullet.

the audio was rigorously reviewed by experts that of course took into account echos that's basic, and the echos were counted and ruled out, for the extra shots.

Do you really want to go into the problems with the x-rays and autopsy photos? it's horrific what was done and redone lost and changed there.

the House select Committee was fairly well right. the Warren commission was a cover up.

I don't recall what they said about the bullet in the stretcher and bullets apparently will generate two sound waves, one for the supersonic bullet and one for the muzzle blast.

I already stated that there were plenty of problems but modern forensics can make up much for much of what was done wrong 50 years ago. And no, I don't really want to watch any videos about x-rays and photos. I fully grant you that you can find alternative conclusions to anything that you want. :poke:

revelarts
11-14-2013, 09:57 AM
I don't recall what they said about the bullet in the stretcher and bullets apparently will generate two sound waves, one for the supersonic bullet and one for the muzzle blast.

I already stated that there were plenty of problems but modern forensics can make up much for much of what was done wrong 50 years ago. And no, I don't really want to watch any videos about x-rays and photos. I fully grant you that you can find alternative conclusions to anything that you want. :poke:

Sure i could find alternative versions of plenty stories if i just want to find stories. but what we're talking about are here are things that have real forensic weight one way or the others.

and as i often say let look at all of the evidence. not just what favors one side or the others.
To me the more i looked at the JFK killing the more obvious it becomes that the commission covered up lots of contrary evidence. you and other may say they were doing it "for the good of the country" but to me once someone lies to me i want to know what else was a lie.
and the deeper you dig the smeller it gets.

so it's fine to wipe our hands and say the gov't report tells the basic story and not poke around at the loose ends and bend over backwards to believe everything that is at the bleeding edge of physical creditability and gloss over fudged docs, film, and other evidence added to altered and ignored testimonies just because ..well the warren story basically hold up.

But it bugs me. so I toss out the few monkey wrench I'm aware of into the conversation.
you should take a look at some of the vids i posted. interesting to say the least.

Arbo
11-14-2013, 11:05 AM
I'm not much for conspiracy stuff, I prefer occams razor and the reality that most conspiracies would need to involve far too many people to ever truly hide anything. Perhaps the official story was wrong, but at this point, decades later, does it matter?

revelarts
11-14-2013, 11:55 AM
I'm not much for conspiracy stuff, I prefer occams razor and the reality that most conspiracies would need to involve far too many people to ever truly hide anything. Perhaps the official story was wrong, but at this point, decades later, does it matter?

Occam's Razor
It states that among competing hypotheses, the hypothesis with the fewest assumptions should be selected.

sure, OK we want to get there finally but,
try this , you walk into a room there's a 7 year old boy on the floor with a half eaten cookie in his hand and a ripped box of half finished chocolate chip and nuts in front of him on the table.
the simple explanation is obvious.
the kid ate the cookies. "Cold Case"" case Closed" no need for further investigation. no more details..

but the kid say it wasn't him, he just got there too.

the older brother comes downstairs an says the kid just got out of the toilet, evidenced by the smell and he just heard the flush.
the older sister comes in from outside of and ask why the dog is puking chocolate and nuts all over the porch.

Do we lean to Occam's razor or allow the more complex evidence take us where it leads. and use the razor going forward based on all the evidence?

I like to rely on the preponderance of the evidence to come to conclusions.

as far as people being able to hide anything, How could we every come to a reasonable conclusion of what various groups are able to hide? If they hide it we don't know it. if they don't we do.
it's not a question i try answer 1st as to waht might have happened. assuming the answer to that precludes even looking any where but but where told.
but hey that's good enough "evidence" for some people. the General incredulity of such a thing. it Could never happen here tut tut.

Why is it important?
1. it removes the blinders of incredulity from the general public to the idea that some in our gov't are capable of murdering elected officials to get their way and cover it up.
1b. showing the corruption of the system.
2. no statute of limitations on murder.
3. might shed light on parts of gov't that needs to be shut down.
4. open the door to related and similar investigations.
that's 4 off the top of my head

Arbo
11-14-2013, 12:10 PM
as far as people being able to hide anything, How could we every come to a reasonable conclusion of what various groups are able to hide? If they hide it we don't know it. if they don't we do.

The problem is the larger the group needed to hide or coverup, the less likely they can pull it off. There will always be someone that either has a conscious or see's the potential fame/wealth that could come from outing a massive coverup. Mix that together with the reality that most people in government aren't smart enough to pull off the lies, and the odds of a grand conspiracy drop off dramatically.



1. it removes the blinders of incredulity from the general public to the idea that some in our gov't are capable of murdering elected officials to get their way and cover it up.
1b. showing the corruption of the system.

I'm pretty sure most people already understand there is massive corruption and believes those in government capable of #1.

revelarts
11-14-2013, 12:31 PM
The problem is the larger the group needed to hide or coverup, the less likely they can pull it off. There will always be someone that either has a conscious or see's the potential fame/wealth that could come from outing a massive coverup. Mix that together with the reality that most people in government aren't smart enough to pull off the lies, and the odds of a grand conspiracy drop off dramatically.


often people who say things like that dismiss all of the dead wittiness and dead insiders in JFK case.
there's a dead navy photogrpher, dead mafia people and many others.
Some of those that haven't been kill some say they've been threatened ,others have loss their jobs and or been smeared -looking for fame and fortune- that comes with exposing secret assassins.

Somehow those people don't count. Just coincidence tut tut. Others that may know more see those people and the fame and fortune doesn't look as good as you paint it.

As far a smart enough. sure there's plenty of dummies and in gov't that can't do decent work. but there are jobs that get done. the military has caldestinally killed people, so has the cia and often in secret. so has the Mob. You don't need everyone on gov't in on it or a whole dept or a brigade just few well place people.

what u seem to be doing is brushing the whole idea aside based on some broad assumptions,
"somebody would have talked" well a lot of people have talked but some people don't believe them.
"people in gov't are to dum to kill people" well ok but really but isn't killing people one of the thing the U.S. gov't is best at.

gabosaurus
11-14-2013, 12:31 PM
The JFK assassination will always be the most active conspiracy theory hotbed in the U.S. I took my daughter out to get some books last Sunday and there was an entire display shelf devoted to books about JFK and his demise.
I am still divided between the CIA, organized crime or Castro as the culprits.

jimnyc
11-14-2013, 12:35 PM
I think Oswald killed JFK.

gabosaurus
11-14-2013, 12:39 PM
I think Oswald killed JFK.

Too easy. Show some imagination!

Top 5 alleged culprits:

Lyndon Johnson
Castro
Organized crime
Poppy Bush
Space aliens

Arbo
11-14-2013, 12:46 PM
I think Oswald killed JFK.

Nah, it was Bush.

jimnyc
11-14-2013, 12:48 PM
Too easy. Show some imagination!

Top 5 alleged culprits:

Lyndon Johnson
Castro
Organized crime
Poppy Bush
Space aliens

If I must go out on a limb, then I would lean towards the mafia. But I honestly don't believe that, I think it's simply a lone killer, which morphed into multiple conspiracies, and has lived and breathed for 50 years.

jimnyc
11-14-2013, 12:50 PM
Nah, it was Bush.

Elder, GW or Jeb? Or perhaps Cheney enlisted all 3 of them and the entire Bush family shot from various angles - but it was really Cheney shooting for the birds again? :coffee:

Arbo
11-14-2013, 12:53 PM
Elder, GW or Jeb? Or perhaps Cheney enlisted all 3 of them and the entire Bush family shot from various angles - but it was really Cheney shooting for the birds again? :coffee:

Even simply blaming bush can turn into a quick multi-family member hit squad conspiracy. ;)

But you might be on to something, though I think Jeb would have been too young to be involved.

fj1200
11-14-2013, 01:27 PM
Sure i could find alternative versions of plenty stories if i just want to find stories. but what we're talking about are here are things that have real forensic weight one way or the others.
...
you should take a look at some of the vids i posted. interesting to say the least.

Yes, real forensic weight which is completely different now than it was back then with the apparent bungling of the whole process. And I did watch most of the 5 minute video and there's only so much weight that can be placed on CE399.


I think Oswald killed JFK.

:laugh:

jimnyc
11-14-2013, 02:41 PM
:laugh:

You filthy fucker! Now you got me all confused in the head. Are you laughing at me because you think my belief is funny? Because you thought I was kidding? Just because you wanted to fuck with me? LOL

fj1200
11-14-2013, 02:46 PM
You filthy fucker! Now you got me all confused in the head. Are you laughing at me because you think my belief is funny? Because you thought I was kidding? Just because you wanted to fuck with me? LOL

I'll take any of those but I thought your post was the ultimate conspiracy theory; that the guy actually did it. :laugh:

aboutime
11-14-2013, 06:41 PM
Since that Friday in November of 1963. The most popular, longest lasting Conspiracy Theory, most often written about, with the most books sold on the subject, has been The JFK murder.

Nearly every year since that day. Someone has offered up another of the possible hundreds of Conspiracy Theory stories...each intended to sell, and make a much money as possible.

And...the American people. Being so gullible, and easily led. Have all fallen for, and even become convinced....Oswald did not act alone. Which was the first Declaration made at that time that has been joined by dozens of other Declarations by KNOWING MINDS...better known as Fiction Writers out to make a Buck.

It has been 50 years, and still. The Warren Report is claimed to be fiction because. AMERICANS are so easily led, and so gullible still.

revelarts
11-17-2013, 10:47 AM
Magic Bullet:
More lead in evidence recovered from Connelly than is missing from the Bullet
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/A1_DbeN6b48?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


the Rifle, is crap. unreliable, slow, small scope. same rifle as found?
Called "the humanitarian rifle" by the Italian army because they couldn't kill anyone with it.
Army's top snipers duplicated everything at Quantico and couldn't make the shots.
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/CZ-C74ip2xY?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



but hey, reality for everyone else on these points don't matter, LHO was just REALLY REALLY LUCKY Shooter.
And Bullets CAN sometime have more lead left on them than fragments that come off of them in their targets.

AND anyway somebody woulda talked, so no other facts matter!

aboutime
11-17-2013, 06:12 PM
NOVEMBER 22nd of every year since 1963 has brought out more BS than a BS Factory.

The story will never go away, and there will always be someone who claims to KNOW what happened.

All of which, still, never manages to change after FIFTY YEARS.

All of the principles have DIED.

Everything else we hear is pure conjecture, and Endless BS.

glockmail
11-17-2013, 08:11 PM
I think Oswald killed JFK.It was LBJ assisted by his thugs in the unions, hence mafia. LHO was a useful idiot, as was Jack Ruby. LBJ had means, motive and opportunity. RFK had all kinds of shit on him, which is why he didn't run for reelection.

Gaffer
11-24-2013, 10:44 AM
I'm going on memory here. But, as I remember there was a bunch of evidence that was locked away and not to be made available to the public for 25 years. The excuse being to "protect the family". After 25 years, reporters attempted to get access to that evidence and were told nothing would be released for another 25 years. So here it is again, and the latest report is the evidence locked away will remain locked away forever.

Nothing to see here folks, just swamp gas.

soupnazi630
11-25-2013, 08:25 PM
Single Bullet theory is BS.

the Bullet found on the stretcher in parkland hospital was Pristine. But the Dr.s and Nurses at the Hospital say they pulled bullet fragments from Connely Wrist and the rest of it from his thigh. couldn't have been on the stretcher.

and the Audio recording from the police radio definitively shows more shots that alleged by Warren.

And you've got 50+ witnesses that say shots were fired from the knoll.

And you've got most of the people who have tried to reproduce the shot LOH was suppose to have fired saying they could not do it. for multiple reason starting with the crappy rifle with slow bolt action. But somehow LOH did it nonchalantly. since he was seen in a lower floor lunch room before and after the the murder.

And you have the later House Select Committee on Assassination, congressional investigation concluding there was a more people involved.

to name a few Items...

oldy but goody
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHaMxA5w4_Y

well done modern summery
<iframe height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/65N3eP2yvbQ?feature=player_embedded" frameBorder="0" width="640" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

<iframe height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/3dslC2FAReg?feature=player_embedded" frameBorder="0" width="640" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>


The single bullet fact is well proven and has never been debunked.

The claims you make concerning this bullet have long since been proven false.
First of all it was NEVER pristine it was damaged and missing mass in a manner perfectly consistent with a bullet which struck two men. It is endless CTs who claim it was pristine but that is simple a lie.

The audio recording from one officers shoulder microphone was found to have no sounds of any gunfire on it whatsoever and has no evidence supporting any theory.

You have 50+ witnesses TODAY claiming they heard gunfire from the knoll. Only a few made such a claim immediately after the shooting. The rest came forward and changed there testimony after extensive prompting and leading from conspiracy theorists they have NO credibility. In the end the vast majority of witnesses heard 3 and only 3 shots coming from the TSBD. Of course many others heard something different which is normal whenever there is more than one witness.

In fact nearly every expert or even average shooter is easily able to match or exceed Oswalds shooting. Furthermore nearly anyone can take the time he took to fire 3 shots hide the rifle and WALK calmly to the lunchroom where he was seen after the shooting. He was not seen there before the shooting.

The House select committee concludced that there was a PROBABLE conspiracy not a certianty.

They based that conclusion on the above mentioned audio tape which has long since been debunked. As this was their only evidence of a second shooter they have no evidence of such a shooter whatsoever. The ORIGINAL conclusion of the HSCA was that Oswald acted alone this is the proper conclusion to reach. They changef that conclusion only after the audio recording was introduced and then they disbanded before any others could examine it which is when it was proven wrong.

namvet
12-06-2013, 12:40 PM
the magic bullet wasn't really magic


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfSXkfV_mhA

if I had to point a finger its at the Dallas PD or someone connected to them. they screwed the pooch here big time. add to it Kennedy was not liked at all in TX because of his stand on civil rights and communism, he had a lot of enemies there. if I had to point a finger IMO Ozwald did it. alone

he also had lots a bitch's and whore's


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiTfrIpVI6k

and he sealed his own fate by riding in the rag top