Sun's flipping poles could mean lights out for U.S

[Jeff]

I have been hearing about this sporadically for a while now, heck one guy that I grew up with keeps posting on FB how the world is going to end then , well actually what he says is 85% of us will be dead. Man if the lights went out we sure enough would be in trouble ( I don't think Americans most anyway could make do without it never mind how it will really effect us)




WASHINGTON – A vulnerability test by the electric-power industry of the national electrical grid shows the system would fail during certain catastrophes – and would fail even if only some of the impacts of certain catastrophes were experienced.
That is the sobering message from a preliminary readout of the results of a vulnerability test called Grid Ex II.
It revealed that even though the test was done under circumstances that didn’t represent the full impact of what would occur in the event of a grid blackout – caused either by a cyber or electromagnetic pulse attack – the system failed.
The North American Electric Power Reliability Corporation, or NERC, led the nationwide exercise to examine just how vulnerable the nation’s electric power grid would be under a limited nationwide cyber or EMP attack.
The test, regarded by experts as presenting less of an impact than a real EMP, comes as the sun is about to “flip” its own magnetic poles at the peak of its expected 11-year cycle.
The sun flips the polarity of its magnetic north and south, causing huge intergalactic geomagnetic storms which can affect the earth’s grid and communications including satellites.




http://www.wnd.com/2013/11/suns-flipping-poles-could-mean-lights-out-for-u-s/

[aboutime]

I have been hearing about this sporadically for a while now, heck one guy that I grew up with keeps posting on FB how the world is going to end then , well actually what he says is 85% of us will be dead. Man if the lights went out we sure enough would be in trouble ( I don't think Americans most anyway could make do without it never mind how it will really effect us)





http://www.wnd.com/2013/11/suns-flipping-poles-could-mean-lights-out-for-u-s/



Jeff. I learned to stop worrying about such things long ago.

If such a thing were to happen to all of us tomorrow.

We wouldn't be here to know it, or complain about it since...THERE'S NOTHING WE CAN DO.

The universe is such a huge thing. Not One Human Being on Earth is smart enough, or has any power to change whatever Nature, here on Earth, or what our SUN may do...in the next second.

In other words. When 'THE LIGHTS GO OUT'. Who will know it?

Also Jeff. As an afterthought. If this cycle occurs every 11 years.

What happened 11 years ago?
And, did it happen?

[Jeff]

Jeff. I learned to stop worrying about such things long ago.

If such a thing were to happen to all of us tomorrow.

We wouldn't be here to know it, or complain about it since...THERE'S NOTHING WE CAN DO.

The universe is such a huge thing. Not One Human Being on Earth is smart enough, or has any power to change whatever Nature, here on Earth, or what our SUN may do...in the next second.

In other words. When 'THE LIGHTS GO OUT'. Who will know it?

Also Jeff. As an afterthought. If this cycle occurs every 11 years.

What happened 11 years ago?
And, did it happen?

I have to admit AT when I read the article I also wondered about the 11 year deal :laugh:

[aboutime]

I have to admit AT when I read the article I also wondered about the 11 year deal :laugh:


Isn't it odd how they never actually presented such evidence, or accounted for the last cycle of 11 years?
I'm too much of a pragmatist, and never settle for WHAT IF's?

[logroller]

Isn't it odd how they never actually presented such evidence, or accounted for the last cycle of 11 years?
I'm too much of a pragmatist, and never settle for WHAT IF's?

Its happened before.


For instance, in 1989 the transmission system for Canada's Hydro Quebec electricity provider collapsed during a solar storm, leaving millions of people without power for nine hours or more. And the "Halloween storms" of 2003 triggered blackouts in the city of Malmö, Sweden, and likely caused transformer failures in South Africa.


"Because they are located closer to the magnetic North Pole, Canadian utilities are deeply involved in monitoring geomagnetically induced currents, modeling impacts for vulnerability, and refining their operational protocols," EPRI's Lordan said. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/energy/2011/08/110803-solar-flare-storm-electricity-grid-risk/

[Nukeman]

Back to topic.. This happens every 11 years or so. The poles shift on a routine cycle, actually for this being a "solar maximum" the cycle has been rather tame.. Now that being said if the Sun did decide to unleash a hell of a cosmic storm we have to remember that it would need to be DIRECTLY pointed at us for it to do damage. Now the Sun is pretty darn big and can send i all different direction and has done so this cycle. There have been a couple of mass ejections that if directed towards the Earth we would have been in real trouble.

The problem with a solar flare hitting our electric grid is not that it would last a few months but realistically we are looking a multi-year recovery. If only slight it may be "only" 9 months if severe we are looking at the potential of 2-8 years of NO electric power in any meaningful way.. That my friends is a catastrophe of biblical proportions. We would see large cities destroyed in a matter of weeks, then the hordes would start streaming out looking for anything and everything they can get their hands on and steal. That is when it would go south REAL quick for those "city" dwellers. I would add that as a "rural" person I would NOT count on the govt or military to help because they would have their hands full in the metropolitan area's... I would say those of us in the rural area's would be on our own and need to protect/feed ourselves..


This is actually one of my biggest fears that our govt is NOT preparing for, most of our infrastructure for the electric grid can be be EMP/solar safe..

[jimnyc]

Other crap moved to cage.

[jimnyc]

For anyone thinking posts were hidden, or deleted, or put in a place to get less attention - not the case. The same as the past 10 years, posts that are OT, fighting, or back and forth which kill threads, will be moved to the cage, even if they are my posts too! Anyway, go here for the rest:

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?44049-11-21-crap

/continue crap there, or continue good discussion right here.

[Drummond]

I don't really see what the big deal is in this story. The Sun goes through cycles of sunspot activity. Sometimes, there's not much going on at all. But, once every 11 years, sunspot activity reaches a maximum, and yes, at such times, disruptions are possible.

But this phenomenon has been known about for rather a long time.

So ... is there reason to suppose that THIS 'maximum' is going to be so much worse than others, to justify specific concern ? If so, what reason exists to suppose that ? If not .. why is this a concern right now ?

[aboutime]

Its happened before.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/energy/2011/08/110803-solar-flare-storm-electricity-grid-risk/


logroller. If you somehow found that I stated "It hadn't happened" please show me where I said that?

I offered my opinion, and my perspective about how I am a pragmatic kind of person. YOU decided that I said something else.

Show me.

[Gaffer]

I'm curious to see what laws they can come up with concerning solar activity and how they can blame mankind for it. You can bet it's coming.

Nukemans got it right. A large solar flare could knock out all the power grids around the world creating chaos and panic world wide. Starvation and disease will kill billions. The world will enter a new dark age. And you can bet the elites in washington have a contingency plan so they can emerge and take over again.

[Drummond]

I agree ... there's potential for concern.

But what I still want to know is, why now ? Has there been evidence, or maybe some calculation done, to show that THIS maximum must be worse than others we've experienced ?

Without reason to suppose that an especially bad episode will happen this time, I see no reason to believe it'll happen. Is this a scare story, and nothing more ?

[aboutime]

I agree ... there's potential for concern.

But what I still want to know is, why now ? Has there been evidence, or maybe some calculation done, to show that THIS maximum must be worse than others we've experienced ?

Without reason to suppose that an especially bad episode will happen this time, I see no reason to believe it'll happen. Is this a scare story, and nothing more ?


Sir Drummond. Once again. I see information like this, designed to distract, or cause fear in people about things THEY HAVE NO CONTROL OVER...as nothing more than another Political kind of trick.

Since human beings generally have a very SHORT, and SMALL attention span. Anyone who wants to get their instant attention only needs to find more STUFF....to make everybody worry, and forget about the THINGS THEY CAN CONTROL.

[logroller]

logroller. If you somehow found that I stated "It hadn't happened" please show me where I said that?

I offered my opinion, and my perspective about how I am a pragmatic kind of person. YOU decided that I said something else.

Show me.


You said,

...
What happened 11 years ago?
And, did it happen?
"What happened?" would have sufficed, but you rephrased the same question inferring doubt over whether it happened. Then,

Isn't it odd how they never actually presented such evidence, or accounted for the last cycle of 11 years?
I'm too much of a pragmatist, and never settle for WHAT IF's?

to which I replied

Its happened before.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/energy/2011/08/110803-solar-flare-storm-electricity-grid-risk/

You asked a question; I answered and provided evidence. Its quite a pragmatic approach actually. Apparently self- profession does not a pragmatist make.

[logroller]

logroller. If you somehow found that I stated "It hadn't happened" please show me where I said that?

I offered my opinion, and my perspective about how I am a pragmatic kind of person. YOU decided that I said something else.

Show me.
Post 2-- you asked, "what happened? " post 4, you talked about no evidence. So I answered and provided evidence. You're welcome.

[Nukeman]

I agree ... there's potential for concern.

But what I still want to know is, why now ? Has there been evidence, or maybe some calculation done, to show that THIS maximum must be worse than others we've experienced ?

Without reason to suppose that an especially bad episode will happen this time, I see no reason to believe it'll happen. Is this a scare story, and nothing more ?


Sir Drummond. Once again. I see information like this, designed to distract, or cause fear in people about things THEY HAVE NO CONTROL OVER...as nothing more than another Political kind of trick.

Since human beings generally have a very SHORT, and SMALL attention span. Anyone who wants to get their instant attention only needs to find more STUFF....to make everybody worry, and forget about the THINGS THEY CAN CONTROL.. Its not a matter of why now, in1863 there was such a large flare that hit the earth it knocked out all the telegraph lines in the US now those line were less susceptible to solar activity. Our current electric grid is very fragile. As for why worry now? Well we as a society have become so dependent upon technology that without it we would be lost. EVERY THING we use today has computer or electronic parts. In the 90's Canada lost power for week or so from a minor flare. Now do I g think this is a different cycle? No! That does not mean we shouldn't prepare. This is not a matter IF this will occur but WHEN!!!!!

[logroller]

I agree ... there's potential for concern.

But what I still want to know is, why now ? Has there been evidence, or maybe some calculation done, to show that THIS maximum must be worse than others we've experienced ?

Without reason to suppose that an especially bad episode will happen this time, I see no reason to believe it'll happen. Is this a scare story, and nothing more ?

As I understand it, Its not so much that this one is worse as it is the effects could be catastrophic and we need to prepare for when it does. It's not if it happens, it's when. Could be this year, might not be for a thousand years; but there is really no way to predict which cycle will be the one. There is a satellite that observes the sun and perhaps we may get some warning, but how much warning? Seconds? minutes? Ideally days but they've been studying this cycle since 1976; so that's only 4 solar cycles-- not a particularly great dataset for comparison. Regardless, even a mild solar event unleashes massive forces.

Scale- wise, if the sun were a basketball, the earth would be a pinhead at the opposite side of a basketball court. During this period the sun is sending these bursts out and, thus far, they've not been direct hits on us, that little pinhead. Probability is low but given the severity of what could happen, what reasonable steps should be taken to minimize its negative effect?

[aboutime]

. Its not a matter of why now, in1863 there was such a large flare that hit the earth it knocked out all the telegraph lines in the US now those line were less susceptible to solar activity. Our current electric grid is very fragile. As for why worry now? Well we as a society have become so dependent upon technology that without it we would be lost. EVERY THING we use today has computer or electronic parts. In the 90's Canada lost power for week or so from a minor flare. Now do I g think this is a different cycle? No! That does not mean we shouldn't prepare. This is not a matter IF this will occur but WHEN!!!!!

Nukeman. I agree with you...in theory. But, pragmatically, and Honestly. WHAT can anyone? Any human being now living on Earth do about what the SUN may, or may not do, whenever it happens?

The Sun, our nearest star is 93 Million miles from Earth. We have experienced Sunspot activity for as long as science has known about Sunspot activity. And....throughout all of our History. NO HUMAN BEING has ever been able to harness, slow down, or stop whatever is taking place on the Sun.
If anyone knows of such a person, past, or present. Please share their name with us, and what they did to change the Sun's actions.
Until then. We....THE HUMAN RACE living on Planet EARTH....are at the mercy of the SUN.

[Nukeman]

Nukeman. I agree with you...in theory. But, pragmatically, and Honestly. WHAT can anyone? Any human being now living on Earth do about what the SUN may, or may not do, whenever it happens?

The Sun, our nearest star is 93 Million miles from Earth. We have experienced Sunspot activity for as long as science has known about Sunspot activity. And....throughout all of our History. NO HUMAN BEING has ever been able to harness, slow down, or stop whatever is taking place on the Sun.
If anyone knows of such a person, past, or present. Please share their name with us, and what they did to change the Sun's actions.
Until then. We....THE HUMAN RACE living on Planet EARTH....are at the mercy of the SUN.Once again let me point out to you that its not a matter of IF or MAY but WHEN this will happen.

I find it odd that you are saying that I or someone else on here has suggested that this is somehow a "different" cycle. In fact I believe I said "Now do I think this is a different cycle? No! "


It isn't a matter of harnessing the power or "stopping what is taking place" but PROTECTING against it, do you truly NOT see the difference in that?? Are purposefully being obtuse?

As for what anyone can do about it? It really is not that difficult to protect key infrastructures that our society relies on. We have the technology to protect our grid and make it hardened against this type of NATURAL event as well as a terrorist attack with an EMP (which North Korea has developed for use). For some reason those elected officials that should be looking at how to take care of all of us are more concerned with giving free shit to everyone that applies (Votes) instead of PROTECTING everyone.

Do you realize that if a pulse as strong as the one in 1863 hit today we would lose all of our electronic devices??? That means NO cars, NO computers, NO telephones, NO medical testing, NO mass travel, etc.. etc.. At no time in recorded history have we as a species been SO dependent on ONE item, without our electric grid Millions if not Billions would starve and die... We don't need to protect everything just key components. It is NOT difficult to place a Faraday Cage around those key components. It just takes a little money and time. My fear is that our govt is not taking this type of potential catastrophe serious enough. I will reiterate that at no time in recorded history has our species been so dependent upon technology to function on a daily basis.

Now try to read the post you are responding to before responding to them!!!!!!!!!!!!

[aboutime]

Once again let me point out to you that its not a matter of IF or MAY but WHEN this will happen.

I find it odd that you are saying that I or someone else on here has suggested that this is somehow a "different" cycle. In fact I believe I said "Now do I think this is a different cycle? No! "
It isn't a matter of harnessing the power or "stopping what is taking place" but PROTECTING against it, do you truly NOT see the difference in that?? Are purposefully being obtuse?

As for what anyone can do about it? It really is not that difficult to protect key infrastructures that our society relies on. We have the technology to protect our grid and make it hardened against this type of NATURAL event as well as a terrorist attack with an EMP (which North Korea has developed for use). For some reason those elected officials that should be looking at how to take care of all of us are more concerned with giving free shit to everyone that applies (Votes) instead of PROTECTING everyone.

Do you realize that if a pulse as strong as the one in 1863 hit today we would lose all of our electronic devices??? That means NO cars, NO computers, NO telephones, NO medical testing, NO mass travel, etc.. etc.. At no time in recorded history have we as a species been SO dependent on ONE item, without our electric grid Millions if not Billions would starve and die... We don't need to protect everything just key components. It is NOT difficult to place a Faraday Cage around those key components. It just takes a little money and time. My fear is that our govt is not taking this type of potential catastrophe serious enough. I will reiterate that at no time in recorded history has our species been so dependent upon technology to function on a daily basis.

Now try to read the post you are responding to before responding to them!!!!!!!!!!!!



Nukeman. Re-read? How bout you do the same? I agreed with you.
And, you seemed to overlook my admission about being a Pragmatic person.
I'm not arguing with you. Just being realistic.
If you have an answer on how to PROTECT us from whatever the SUN may do, not IF, but WHEN. Please tell us all what, and how you would protect the WORLDWIDE electric grid from such a thing.
I fully agree, the Human Race has become so dependent upon technology. All it would take to send the entire World into a havoc, and desperation would be such a PULSE emitted from the SUN.
SO...pragmatically speaking. RIGHT NOW. TODAY.
What can be done to stop it if it happens....5, 4, 3, 2, 1.....NOW?

[logroller]

Nukeman. Re-read? How bout you do the same? I agreed with you.
And, you seemed to overlook my admission about being a Pragmatic person.
I'm not arguing with you. Just being realistic.
If you have an answer on how to PROTECT us from whatever the SUN may do, not IF, but WHEN. Please tell us all what, and how you would protect the WORLDWIDE electric grid from such a thing.
I fully agree, the Human Race has become so dependent upon technology. All it would take to send the entire World into a havoc, and desperation would be such a PULSE emitted from the SUN.
SO...pragmatically speaking. RIGHT NOW. TODAY.
What can be done to stop it if it happens....5, 4, 3, 2, 1.....NOW?

Instead of prattling on and on about how pragmatic you are, maybe try google.


To protect your own electrical equipment from solar flares, first tune-in to the reports from places like “spaceweather.com” that have accurate reports and timing of solar flares. If there is an X-class flare or CME coming our way, turn-off the main breaker at your electrical distribution panel at least a couple of hours before contact, and if there is nothing else involved in your system, then just review the precautions outlined on the next page. If you have solar equipment, turn-off also the solar panel breakers as well as, the disconnect (switch) at the junction box where the battery wires and solar panel wires terminate.
[Also keep in mind that solar flares are not 5 second, sun bursts. The M-class flare (a 10 fold decrease from X-class type) unleashed Feb 24, 2011 that just missed us, lasted 90 minutes. With any flare, its light (photons) takes about 8 minutes to reach earth. This has little effect on an electrical system. It’s the stuff that comes afterwards (from 6 hours to 3 days) that may deliver a crippling blow.]



http://www.mastersconnection.com/index.php/archived-articles/earth-changes/989-protecting-your-electrical-equipment-from-solar-flares

[aboutime]

Instead of prattling on and on about how pragmatic you are, maybe try google.

http://www.mastersconnection.com/index.php/archived-articles/earth-changes/989-protecting-your-electrical-equipment-from-solar-flares



Sure thing log. Let us all know when you have completed all of that. Will ya?

[cadet]

Nukeman. Re-read? How bout you do the same? I agreed with you.
And, you seemed to overlook my admission about being a Pragmatic person.
I'm not arguing with you. Just being realistic.
If you have an answer on how to PROTECT us from whatever the SUN may do, not IF, but WHEN. Please tell us all what, and how you would protect the WORLDWIDE electric grid from such a thing.
I fully agree, the Human Race has become so dependent upon technology. All it would take to send the entire World into a havoc, and desperation would be such a PULSE emitted from the SUN.
SO...pragmatically speaking. RIGHT NOW. TODAY.
What can be done to stop it if it happens....5, 4, 3, 2, 1.....NOW?

It'd be fairly easy to fix the transistors to not be susceptible to emp pulses. not sure why we haven't done it already... probably cost of manpower or procrastination or something like such.

but if it'd happened right now, i'd be fine. my truck would still work, i live in a farm community, etc. i'd be able to help with ,y degree finally, and we'd lose all those rapists and murderers in the cities! i call it a win win.