Lee Rigby's killers sentenced !

[Drummond]

I don't know what (if any) coverage this has just received in America. But, who recalls the case of the British soldier savagely murdered by Islamists on a London street, all those months ago ?

One of his assailants tried to behead him in full public view ....

Anyway, the killers were sentenced yesterday. The UK doesn't have a death penalty, so they received especially long imprisonments. Thoroughly deserved .. of course.

But here's the thing ... and, though I can guess what Jafar would say, he's welcome to comment regardless. The judge behaved in a very 'PC' way in delivering his sentences, claiming that the trash 'HAD BETRAYED ISLAM' by doing what they'd done to Lee Rigby.

Well, guess what, Jafar and folks ? They didn't like that one bit !!!! The reaction from them was immediate and violent.

... and highly traumatic for the soldier's mother ...

http://news.sky.com/story/1218098/rigbys-mum-collapsed-after-killers-brawl


Lee Rigby's mother collapsed and needed medical treatment after the dramatic sentencing hearing that saw her son's raging killers bundled out of court by guards.
Michael Adebolajo and Michael Adebowale exploded with anger after judge Mr Justice Sweeney said they had betrayed Islam when they hacked the soldier to death near Woolwich barracks.

The pair were taken to their cells where they continued screaming, and the judge sentenced them in their absence.

Afterwards, Mrs Rigby said her legs "went from underneath me", and an ambulance was called.

Paramedics checked her blood pressure, before deciding she was well enough to return home.

The 47-year-old told The Sun newspaper: "This was the final insult to Lee. It was like they were jumping all over his grave.

"As they started fighting all I could think was that was how it must have been as they hacked and killed my son. I tried to block out the noises and shouting by covering my ears.

"There was so much banging and chaos. I felt so ill I thought I was going to die. I screamed out and the police rushed to protect me and my family.

"I was terrified the glass screen around the dock was going to smash and I couldn’t even breathe properly.

"Even when they were dragged downstairs I could still hear them screaming.

"I don't think I have ever felt so frightened. But I was determined to see it through to the end for Lee."

Adebolajo, 29, was given a whole-life term, and Adebowale, 22, was jailed for at least 45 years.

So, Jafar, two Islamic savages are galvanised into fury when told that their disgusting savagery defied Islam !! Can I guess at your response ?

[jafar00]

My response? The judge is right. They betrayed Islam and they have their punishment in this life, but it will pale in comparison to the suffering they will have to endure in hell.

[aboutime]

Sir Drummond. GREAT NEWS! At least the family of Rigby may still have SOME faith restored in the Judicial system of the U.K.

Those two CRAZIES who took part in the slaughter of that man....will hopefully find their punishment far more serious WITHIN the walls of whatever prison they call home.

Personally. I hope the Correctional Officers who will oversee them....are as corrupt, behind the walls, as they were...on the street while doing their EVIL DEED.

Or...if ALL OF US ARE LUCKY. Some of the Inmates there will make the KILLERS become their ANAL SLAVES for life!!
That would really be GREAT NEWS.

[jimnyc]

With no death penalty, I imagine there are some blokes in jail for life. And if no deterrent, they may decide to exact justice. That sure would suck!

[Drummond]

My response? The judge is right. They betrayed Islam and they have their punishment in this life, but it will pale in comparison to the suffering they will have to endure in hell.

Strangely, you don't surprise me ... :rolleyes:

Care to go back to a certain thread and review all FORTY SEVEN PAGES of listed 'non' Islamic atrocities, Jafar ?? Yes, all those terrorists, right across the world, have got it wrong, and you've got it right .....

[aboutime]

Strangely, you don't surprise me ... :rolleyes:

Care to go back to a certain thread and review all FORTY SEVEN PAGES of listed 'non' Islamic atrocities, Jafar ?? Yes, all those terrorists, right across the world, have got it wrong, and you've got it right .....


Sir Drummond. Did you notice how jafar managed to only mention how the MURDERERS betrayed Islam...but said nothing about the real victim who was murdered?

Jafar is as phony as an OBAMA TELEPROMPTER....TELLING THE TRUTH. Or...this...5919

[logroller]

Strangely, you don't surprise me ... :rolleyes:

Care to go back to a certain thread and review all FORTY SEVEN PAGES of listed 'non' Islamic atrocities, Jafar ?? Yes, all those terrorists, right across the world, have got it wrong, and you've got it right .....
Over a billion and half muslims don't commit terrorist acts. Have they ALL got it wrong?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Over a billion and half muslims don't commit terrorist acts. Have they ALL got it wrong? A bullshit comparison if I ever saw one. Because ALL don't do it doesn't mean its not to be condemned. You ignore that the majority of Muslims support it. You also ignore the massive amount of evidence that clearly shows its commanded in the Koran and Hadiths. And you apparently it ignore this too.-Tyr


http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?37131-Most-recent-muslim-terrorist-attacks
And this --
http://clashdaily.com/2014/01/islam-...veryone-earth/
Islam: The Only Religion That Tells Everyone On EARTH What To Do

By Audrey Russo / 28 January 2014 / 307 Comments

The beauty, and envy, of our great nation has always been that it was a melting pot of cultures and ethnicities. The beauty of blending and sharing of cultural traditions. People who loved America and desired to be Americans came here. Not because they were trying to transplant their nation…but to add their traditions to the great melting pot.

New York City was always a perfect example of this phenomenon. Daniel Greenfield (a recent guest on my radio show) states:


In Chinatown, Buddhist temples and protestant churches sit side by side and in Latino neighborhoods, Adventist storefront churches and massive Catholic edifices co-exist; along with them can be found synagogues, Hindu and Zoroastrian temples and the whole dizzying array of religious diversity of a port city defined by its swells and tides of immigrants.

These cultures share their traditions with each other as a gesture of friendship… seeing each one as equal under our Constitution. There’s only one that can’t “coexist” …

This has never happened and could NEVER happen in an Islamic country or community.

Wherever Islam goes, everything goes Islam.

The ideology of Islam (a totalitarian system cloaked in the Burqa of religion) views itself as above all other religions and systems. Everywhere it invades and “conquers”, its sole purpose is to convert by force or by numbers. No other religion/culture is equal or tolerated as such. They come to a country and isolate their community… because the Quran demands that they do not mix with infidels (“Dar al Harb” or “House of War”, which is ALL non-Muslims).

But isolation is just the first step…

This subjugated brotherhood insists upon special considerations for their “religion”… far above and beyond any in the host nation. From the mantle of “victim”, they are able to subdue the “victimizers” through paltering and deceit (Taqiyyah) utilizing false guilt/shame (false claim of Islamophobia).

And so they have become the only religion that tells everyone else on the earth what to do. If you question this, simply look at Muslim regimes, ruled by Sharia Islamic Law. Their self-proclaimed superiority, inequity or shrinking of other religions, and their exorbitant tax for NOT being Muslim…not to mention their barbaric treatment of women and children.

With all our foibles due to our impiety as humans…if anyone on this globe loves the freedom given to them by the Judeo-Christian God…and protected by its patriots…then DON’T give a foothold to Islam.

Because once they get their foot in the door…they will crush you with it!

Shalom through strength…

Read more at http://clashdaily.com/2014/01/islam-religion-tells-everyone-earth/#jStt8KG7Q93SleQu.99 This sums up how they operate. --Tyr

This subjugated brotherhood insists upon special considerations for their “religion”… far above and beyond any in the host nation. From the mantle of “victim”, they are able to subdue the “victimizers” through paltering and deceit (Taqiyyah) utilizing false guilt/shame (false claim of Islamophobia). ^^^^^ It points to they acting as if Nazis with their version of Aryan supremacy. Their religion forces them to treat all non-Muslims as non-human. It promotes such savagery as the world rarely sees now except in actions engaged in by Islamic murdering scum. -Tyr

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Here is more important information in regards to the attempted demand that we respect the Religion of Murder! -Tyr

http://chersonandmolschky.com/2013/11/04/religion-death/
The Religion of Death
While every other religion in the world is more peaceful, Islam is somehow known as the “religion of peace.” Yet since its inception in the 7th Century C.E., more than 270 million people have been the victims of Muslim rage. These deaths were not just the sad side effect of war and Muslim conquests, as this number of 270 million increases on a daily basis, even in our modern era of “enlightenment.”

The Religion of Peace website has been keeping track of as many deadly Muslim terror attacks as possible since 9/11, and the attacks alone since then are nearly 22,000 at this time, not to mention the inconceivable body count which accompanies each attack. Typical wartime battles and normal crime which is not carried out in the name of Islam are not included, nor are all the honor killings between spouses. Including such attacks, this number of 22,000 would increase significantly.

In Pakistan, just one country out of the approximately 50 Muslim nations worldwide, honor killings are reported in The Express Tribune practically daily. One couple was just gunned down in Charsadda for having “illicit” relations, and a family of four was killed because one of the daughters eloped with the son of the killer. Another recent murder case in Pakistan was also the result of perceived immoral behavior. This type of honor killing is known as karo-kari, murder which is done because of the “immorality” of the victim or victims. In this case, a son killed his mother for having an affair, and according to him, he unintentionally killed his eight year-old brother as well.


These honor killings are not isolated to Muslim countries like Pakistan. The UK is importing Muslim violence with its massive, uncontrolled immigration with Pakistani immigrants being the largest Muslim group in the country. A Pakistani immigrant recently killed his wife in an honor killing when his daughter, who had already been married and divorced in an arranged marriage, told her father she fell in love with a man in Dubai and would be getting married. But marrying for love was seen as dishonoring the family according to this Muslim man, and he decided that the only way to restore honor to the family would be to kill them all. He set fire to the family home, trapping all the women inside, his wife, three daughters and a friend. Fortunately the three daughters and friend escaped, albeit with broken bones after jumping out of windows, but his wife died, killed even though she also disapproved of the relationship.

The most interesting part of the story is how the man supposedly tried to kill himself but was unable to carry it out. He also initially told police someone else committed the crime, a group led by a “white woman.” If this was meant to restore honor to the family, why didn’t he own up to what he did? Too cowardly to face the music and too cowardly to kill himself, yet he had no problems whatsoever attempting to murder his entire family due to his “religious” beliefs. This is Islam: killing your wife, your mother, your daughter, your sister, your niece… or other “loved” ones in the name of religion.

Islamic violence takes the form of both personal attacks, like in these honor cases, which are becoming more frequent in our Western nations with the influx of Muslim immigrants, and impersonal attacks meant to kill as many infidels as possible. (Of course these attacks are very personal to the victims and their families.) Places which we never think of in terms of Islamic terrorism have been seeing attacks, like the recent suicide bombing in Tiananmen Square, and another one at a beach resort in Tunisia, which believe it or not, was Tunisia’s first suicide bombing since 2002 when 21 people were killed at a synagogue.

[aboutime]

Over a billion and half muslims don't commit terrorist acts. Have they ALL got it wrong?


log. The more you talk here, the more you sound like Obama. The defender of terrorists who would think nothing of separating YOUR HEAD from the rest of your body...because..YOU are not a muslim.

Or...MAYBE YOU ARE. Which explains why you, and jafar DEFEND THEM.

[jafar00]

A bullshit comparison if I ever saw one. Because ALL don't do it doesn't mean its not to be condemned. You ignore that the majority of Muslims support it. You also ignore the massive amount of evidence that clearly shows its commanded in the Koran and Hadiths. And you apparently it ignore this too.-Tyr

This sums up how they operate. --Tyr
^^^^^ It points to they acting as if Nazis with their version of Aryan supremacy. Their religion forces them to treat all non-Muslims as non-human. It promotes such savagery as the world rarely sees now except in actions engaged in by Islamic murdering scum. -Tyr

If they really think that (your sources are full of lies), they are presenting a non Islamic concept. In his last sermon, the Prophet Mohamed (saw) said this...

All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over a black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. - Prophet Mohamed (saw)


Here is more important information in regards to the attempted demand that we respect the Religion of Murder! -Tyr

I showed you how "Honour" killing is a non Islamic custom that is condemned in every way by Islamic texts. I don't know why I bother to debate you when you use your dubious hate blogs as your gospel.

[logroller]

A bullshit comparison if I ever saw one. Because ALL don't do it doesn't mean its not to be condemned. You ignore that the majority of Muslims support it. You also ignore the massive amount of evidence that clearly shows its commanded in the Koran and Hadiths. And you apparently it ignore this too.-Tyr

This sums up how they operate. --Tyr
^^^^^ It points to they acting as if Nazis with their version of Aryan supremacy. Their religion forces them to treat all non-Muslims as non-human. It promotes such savagery as the world rarely sees now except in actions engaged in by Islamic murdering scum. -Tyr
Just because I expose the untruths of ones assertion doesn't make my comparison bullshit. For example, the emboldened above is divorced from reality.

In many of the countries surveyed, clear majorities of Muslims oppose violence in the name of Islam. Indeed, about three-quarters or more in Pakistan (89%), Indonesia (81%), Nigeria (78%) and Tunisia (77%), say suicide bombings or other acts of violence that target civilians are never justified........

Half or more of Muslims in most countries surveyed say that suicide bombing and other acts of violence that target civilians can never be justified in the name of Islam. This opinion is most prevalent in Pakistan (89%), Indonesia (81%), Nigeria (78%), and Tunisia (77%). Majorities or pluralities share this unequivocal rejection of religious-inspired violence in Malaysia (58% never justified), Turkey (54%), Jordan (53%), and Senegal (50%). In Malaysia, however, roughly a quarter of Muslims (27%) take the view that attacks on civilians are sometimes or often justified.
http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/09/10/muslim-publics-share-concerns-about-extremist-groups/

you were saying that I ignore what again...try again-- this time without false accusations.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Just because I expose the untruths of ones assertion doesn't make my comparison bullshit. For example, the emboldened above is divorced from reality.
http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/09/10/muslim-publics-share-concerns-about-extremist-groups/

you were saying that I ignore what again...try again-- this time without false accusations.
I find different numbers amigo. -Tyr


http://moralcompassblog.com/2013/05/03/pew/ Shedding Blood For Allah: Pew Study Says More Than 350 Million Muslims Support Violent Jihad 4


3 May 2013 | Islam

.
Tuesday saw the release of a major international Pew Research study into the opinions of Muslims on a variety of topics. The full report (PDF) is here, but let’s just take a quick peek:


The study is a four-year effort by Pew, which conducted 38,000 face-to-face interviews in 80-plus languages for the survey. In total, 39 countries and territories were included, all of which had over 10 million Muslims living there. …


A majority of Muslims in Asia, Africa and the Middle East favored sharia law being adopted as the law of their countries, with the highest support recorded in Afghanistan at 99 percent. …

The study says that 72 percent of Indonesian Muslims favor making Islamic law the official legal code in the country, compared to 86 percent in Malaysia and 77 percent in Thailand having the same opinion.


islam-will-dominate-the-world


A strong majority surveyed said so-called honor killings could never be justified. The only exceptions came in Afghanistan and Iraq, where majorities condoned executions of women deemed to have shamed their families by engaging in premarital sex or adultery.

Finally, to Pew’s credit, it didn’t ignore the elephant in the room:


The survey found the global median for Muslims opposed to violence in the name of Islam was 72 percent.

Marvellous.

Even though that group includes individuals like the 2009-era Tsarnaev brothers — then still moderate and not yet radicalized — let’s take it at face value and rejoice that a solid majority of Muslims does not openly engage in (or openly support) murder for Allah. 72 percent! Terrific!




www.pewforum.org_uploadedFiles_Topics_Religious_Af filiation_Muslim_worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf
Except … well, what about the other 28 percent? There are 1.3 billion Muslims on this planet. If 28 percent of them support violent jihad, that’s 364 million Muslims who condone the murder of apostates, blasphemers, gay people, cartoonists, loose women, and possibly everyone godless enough to attend the Boston marathon.

In the United States, the picture is only marginally better. Eight out of ten U.S. Muslims say it’s not cool to strap a bomb to your chest and kill a bunch of kuffar. But two out of ten say that’s dandy. There are 2.6 million Muslims living in the U.S. … x 19 percent … Yep, almost half a million of them give suicide bombers a big thumbs-up.

Relieved? Reassured? Me neither.

Now let’s take a closer look at the report itself (pages 68-71), rather than the summary:


The survey finds widespread concern about religious extremism in Southeast Asia, South Asia and the Middle EastNorth Africa region. In nearly every country surveyed in these regions, at least half of Muslims say they are very concerned or somewhat concerned about extremist groups.

So roughly half a billion Muslims have no such concerns. Got it.


In Indonesia, nearly eight-in-ten Muslims say they are worried about religious extremism (78%), including more than half (53%) who are worried about Islamic extremists.

That’s adorable. That means that 25 percent of Indonesian Muslims are worried about non-Muslim extremists (of which there are very few in that country) to the exclusion of the violent agitators, murderers, and terrorists in their own midst. And in their way, they’d be right. They themselves will likely not be the targets of fellow Muslims. That fate will have to be borne by Indonesian Christians, Buddhists, or agnostics — or by tourists brave enough to visit a Bali nightclub.

My main takeaway from the Pew study is that the Muslim world seems to be radicalizing at breakneck speed.

Consider: After Gallup opinion-polled tens of thousands of Muslims across 35 nations in the mid-aughts and released its report in 2007, we were told that Muslims were almost totally non-violent. They only desire that the West show a little “respect” for their religion.

At the time, Dalia Mogahed, the executive director of the Gallup Center for Muslim Studies, could hardly stop talking about how widespread the Muslim aversion to Islamic violence was. She said she found that 93 percent of her fellow believers don’t want to see a drop of blood spilled in the name of Mohammed. What she left out was that the seven percent who do amounted to 91 million Muslims.

No doubt there is a difference between Gallup’s questions and methodology on the one hand, and Pew’s on the other. But if their respective numbers are even in the ballpark, and in seven or eight years’ time we’ve gone from roughly 90 million devout self-confessed supporters of Islamic violence to more than 350 million, we may well wonder if the message that Islam is “the religion of peace” is getting through to the followers — much less anyone else. ^^^^^ Islam and its allies seek to downplay the fact that over 350 million support use of violence to push Islam's agenda. I suspect the number is actually much larger.. Let them unite under a Caliphate and the number would increase greatly ,most likely hitting at least 750 million or even more. Believe what you like and what you want I tend to see the savagery , dedication to murder and denial of Jesus's divinity for what it truly is--a absolute dedication to kill or enslave all non-muslims to then force conversion. And that goal is commanded by their Koran and Hadiths. Reject what you want, reject truth and reality . Know this, the God of Abraham demands that truth be accepted over that of any desire= even a desire to appease and defend based upon sympathy or any other false reason. Islam clearly demands Jesus not be acknowledge to be the Son of God and the Savior. I fail to see why you so desperately seek to defend them and thus defend their mission. A man can not serve two masters. Either Islam lies or else Christianity does. I'd advise you to make up your mind. If one decides Christianity is correct they must not defend those that seek to destroy it. Just that simple.--Tyr

[Jeff]

A bullshit comparison if I ever saw one. Because ALL don't do it doesn't mean its not to be condemned. You ignore that the majority of Muslims support it. You also ignore the massive amount of evidence that clearly shows its commanded in the Koran and Hadiths. And you apparently it ignore this too.-Tyr

This sums up how they operate. --Tyr
^^^^^ It points to they acting as if Nazis with their version of Aryan supremacy. Their religion forces them to treat all non-Muslims as non-human. It promotes such savagery as the world rarely sees now except in actions engaged in by Islamic murdering scum. -Tyr


This same comparison could be used when talking about Bikers

There are how many million Bikers in the USA but yet all we hear about is the bad things they do, how often do you hear of the toy runs the runs for cancer ....ect. Hell the Bikers themselves call the real outlaws 1 percenters because only 1 percent are outlaws but yet I don't see much ( if any ) of the American ( non riding population ) explaining this, and honestly if ya broke it down I am sure the percentage of Muslims ( yes jafar I know I am wrong, the thousands that kill in the name of Allah are fake Muslims :laugh: ) killing in the name of Allah greatly out weigh the one percent of motorcycle riders.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

This same comparison could be used when talking about Bikers

There are how many million Bikers in the USA but yet all we hear about is the bad things they do, how often do you hear of the toy runs the runs for cancer ....ect. Hell the Bikers themselves call the real outlaws 1 percenters because only 1 percent are outlaws but yet I don't see much ( if any ) of the American ( non riding population ) explaining this, and honestly if ya broke it down I am sure the percentage of Muslims ( yes jafar I know I am wrong, the thousands that kill in the name of Allah are fake Muslims :laugh: ) killing in the name of Allah greatly out weigh the one percent of motorcycle riders. That is the difference the majority of Bikers do not support or try to excuse the deeds of the 1 percent . Instead they not only condemn such actions but do exactly the opposite in charity events etc. You simply do not see that in Islam. Instead poll after poll shows far too much support coming from the so-called "peaceful Muslims". And know this, all it takes for a so-called peaceful Muslim to turn violent is a few words from some Imam. Truth and reality is what it is and that is Jafar's problem.. Its hard as hell to counter the TRUTH when so much evidence presents its reality. And 99% can not stop the 1% =bullshat! The 99% has about 85% supporting the 1% in far too many ways that's why. -Tyr

[logroller]

log. The more you talk here, the more you sound like Obama. The defender of terrorists who would think nothing of separating YOUR HEAD from the rest of your body...because..YOU are not a muslim.


Or...MAYBE YOU ARE. Which explains why you, and jafar DEFEND THEM.
Is Obama under your bed and in your closet too? Just leave the nightlight on.

[jimnyc]

Just because I expose the untruths of ones assertion doesn't make my comparison bullshit. For example, the emboldened above is divorced from reality.
http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/09/10/muslim-publics-share-concerns-about-extremist-groups/

you were saying that I ignore what again...try again-- this time without false accusations.

Here is what concerns me about a few things on that page:


Views of extremist groups (unfavorable):

Al Qaeda - 57%
Taliban - 51%
Hamas - 45%
Hezbollah - 42%

My first concern - that low of numbers? That averages out to be like 50% over the 4 groups. Wouldn't that mean that 50% surveyed DO NOT see those extremist groups in an unfavorable light?


Across 11 Muslim publics surveyed by the Pew Research Center, a median of 67% say they are somewhat or very concerned about Islamic extremism. In five countries – Pakistan, Jordan, Tunisia, Turkey and Indonesia – Muslim worries about extremism have increased in the past year.

First off, I wonder why no other major countries outside of these? I wonder if the numbers would change if others were added: Iran, Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq, Egypt... But even with just these, the points to 30+% of people not concerned about extremism in those locales.


Today, al Qaeda is widely reviled, with a median of 57% across the 11 Muslims publics surveyed saying they have an unfavorable opinion of the terrorist organization that launched the twin attacks on New York City and Washington, DC more than a decade ago.

Only 57%? How could a single person support them? That's over 4 million people that DID NOT see Al Qaeda with an unfavorable opinion. How does even a single person support such a group? It's simply a group of murderers.

The Taliban reaches a whopping 51%, meaning 49% don't give a crap.

[Drummond]

Over a billion and half muslims don't commit terrorist acts. Have they ALL got it wrong?

I wonder how many terrorist Muslims would think so ?

Hamas's Charter makes plain their commitment to Jihad, and Hamas sees itself as a standard-bearer for all Muslims. Observe ...

http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/880818.htm


The Universality of Hamas


Article Seven


By virtue of the distribution of Muslims, who pursue the cause of

the Hamas, all over the globe, and strive for its victory, for the

reinforcement of its positions and for the encouragement of its Jihad, the

movement is a universal one. It is apt to be that due to the clarity of

its thinking, the nobility of its purpose and the loftiness of its objectives.


It is in this light that the Movement has to be regarded,

evaluated and acknowledged. Whoever denigrates its worth, or avoids

supporting it, or is so blind as to dismiss its role, is challenging Fate

itself.

But in any case, Islamic domination doesn't just depend on terrorism. Sometimes, Muslims just root themselves in a Society and work to erode opposition from within. They NEVER defer to other religions or social orders, yet, insist that others DO.

The goal is always the same. And consider that Lee Rigby's killers were incensed when told by the sentencing judge that their actions defied Islam.

[fj1200]

Hamas's Charter...

:facepalm99:

[logroller]

Here is what concerns me about a few things on that page:



My first concern - that low of numbers? That averages out to be like 50% over the 4 groups. Wouldn't that mean that 50% surveyed DO NOT see those extremist groups in an unfavorable light?



First off, I wonder why no other major countries outside of these? I wonder if the numbers would change if others were added: Iran, Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq, Egypt... But even with just these, the points to 30+% of people not concerned about extremism in those locales.



Only 57%? How could a single person support them? That's over 4 million people that DID NOT see Al Qaeda with an unfavorable opinion. How does even a single person support such a group? It's simply a group of murderers.

The Taliban reaches a whopping 51%, meaning 49% don't give a crap.
I wouldn't read too far into statistics unless you have a good grasp of its limits . 50% being below average doesn't mean 50% are stupid. I'd be more than happy to discuss such limits but it would require a rather extensive review.
why one country is polled and another not? A myriad of reasons exist, but pew research is a respectable firm so I hope you don't mean to suggest the results were tailored to fit. The target of this report was certain muslim-majority countries (11 in total, iirc). I'm sure pew research isn't allowed into some countries (Iran, Saudi Arabia etc). This is just a part in a large and ongoing research project. http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-exec/

As to why some wouldn't hold an unfavorable view of al Qaida? Perspective based on personal experience perhaps. I'm sure most of those same respondents hold a negative view of American military/foreign policy impacts to them personally. I'm not saying they're right; but often have I seen support lodged for the lesser evil.

[jimnyc]

I wouldn't read too far into statistics unless you have a good grasp of its limits . 50% being below average doesn't mean 50% are stupid. I'd be more than happy to discuss such limits but it would require a rather extensive review.
why one country is polled and another not? A myriad of reasons exist, but pew research is a respectable firm so I hope you don't mean to suggest the results were tailored to fit. The target of this report was certain muslim-majority countries (11 in total, iirc). I'm sure pew research isn't allowed into some countries (Iran, Saudi Arabia etc). This is just a part in a large and ongoing research project. http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-exec/

As to why some wouldn't hold an unfavorable view of al Qaida? Perspective based on personal experience perhaps. I'm sure most of those same respondents hold a negative view of American military/foreign policy impacts to them personally. I'm not saying they're right; but often have I seen support lodged for the lesser evil.

I wasn't suggesting that at all. I figured it on the up and up, they are more respected than most other polling firms out there. I think the numbers are already very damaging. The reason I asked about the other countries as I think the support of extremism would be much higher in those places. And I agree they are Muslim majority countries. In fact, even the portion I refer to states that those polled were in fact solely Muslim.

I'm only speaking of the numbers presented, and I see it as very low numbers against the extremist groups. If they did the same here in the USA, anything shy of 100% against would leave me wondering. And even though these groups are in Muslim countries, I still shake my head knowing that projections show that only about half the people against the extremist groups mentioned.

And I'm not reading too far into them, just one level reverse is all. Surely, for example, if one can say that 65% of the kids showed up for school, another can say that 35% did not show up for school. I understand it's a horrible analogy and it's more complex than that, but how much? If 42% of those polled have an unfavorable view of Hezbollah, just how far off is it to say that 58% do not have an unfavorable view?

But there's not even a need to debate methodology or the reasoning of the Muslims polled. With SO many not choosing unfavorable for these groups, there is obviously WAY too many still supporting these groups, and I do believe these polls reflect that.

And then the article itself:


And although substantial percentages in some countries do think suicide bombing is often or sometimes justified – including a 62%-majority of Palestinian Muslims, overall support for violence in the name of Islam has declined among Muslim publics during the past decade.


In Indonesia, the Muslim public is evenly split: 48% concerned vs. 48% unconcerned. Turkey, meanwhile, is the only country surveyed where at least half of Muslims (51%) say they are not worried about Islamic extremism.


However, in some countries, substantial minorities of Muslims say attacks on civilians are at least sometimes justified to defend Islam from its enemies; in the Palestinian territories, a majority of Muslims hold this view.


In Lebanon and Egypt, too, substantial minorities of Muslims (33% and 25%, respectively) think suicide bombings and similar attacks in the name of Islam are at least sometimes justified.

These aren't numbers that can be twisted or misunderstood, but text that supports that there are very high numbers that do support the extremism and violence.

[aboutime]

Is Obama under your bed and in your closet too? Just leave the nightlight on.


Nice try log, but you still haven't been able to change the subject. Hiding your own idiosyncrasies like Obama, but attempting to redirect them my way..JUST DOESN'T WORK. Old Liberal, partisan tricks like that went out with Jimmy Carter's Lusting.

[logroller]

Nice try log, but you still haven't been able to change the subject. Hiding your own idiosyncrasies like Obama, but attempting to redirect them my way..JUST DOESN'T WORK. Old Liberal, partisan tricks like that went out with Jimmy Carter's Lusting.
What subject is that, exactly-- me sounding like Obama or just that you're generally a troll?

If you want to debate, fine. Lets do it in the one on one section, subject: Logroller sounds like Obama and aboutime isn't a simply a troll. If you're a gentleman, surely you'll accept. Should be a slam-dunk, right?

In the meantime, the subject at hand is islamic support of terrorism. Perhaps you have something to contribute on the subject beyond personal attacks on other members.

[aboutime]

What subject is that, exactly-- me sounding like Obama or just that you're generally a troll?

If you want to debate, fine. Lets do it in the one on one section, subject: Logroller sounds like Obama and aboutime isn't a simply a troll. If you're a gentleman, surely you'll accept. Should be a slam-dunk, right?

In the meantime, the subject at hand is islamic support of terrorism. Perhaps you have something to contribute on the subject beyond personal attacks on other members.


Nope. You've said just about all that needs to be said.

[Drummond]

:facepalm99:

I don't think this qualifies as a coherent comment.

If you have some kind of countering point to make, then why not offer it ? Discussions consist of them ....

[fj1200]

I don't think this qualifies as a coherent comment.

If you have some kind of countering point to make, then why not offer it ? Discussions consist of them ....

I also hear discussions consist of making an actual argument rather than just bringing up "Hamas" when you have nothing else to add. :)

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

If they really think that (your sources are full of lies), they are presenting a non Islamic concept. In his last sermon, the Prophet Mohamed (saw) said this...

All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over a black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. - Prophet Mohamed (saw)



I showed you how "Honour" killing is a non Islamic custom that is condemned in every way by Islamic texts. I don't know why I bother to debate you when you use your dubious hate blogs as your gospel. Yes Jafar according to you every site that gives statistics that reveal Islam is all about conquering and murder is a hate site. That way you get to ignore those statistics that refute so much of what you say. I can go along with you in true belief not accepting those that attack Islam based solely upon hatred but your absolute rejection of statistics often given by many different sources points to your knowingly doing so because you can not refute those facts!-Tyr

[jafar00]

I guess it depends on where the survey is targeted and who they target. If you asked at any of the Mosques in my area where I go frequently, you would get a figure of 100% against Al Qaeda, suicide bombs etc... I know because we have discussed among ourselves why the "Islamists" are deviant from Islam and by how much.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Quote Originally Posted by logroller View Post

Just because I expose the untruths of ones assertion doesn't make my comparison bullshit. For example, the emboldened above is divorced from reality.
http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/09/10/...remist-groups/

you were saying that I ignore what again...try again-- this time without false accusations.





I find different numbers amigo. What people say is not the true indicator amigo. What they do reveals far more about who and what they truly support. -Tyr




http://moralcompassblog.com/2013/05/03/pew/ Shedding Blood For Allah: Pew Study Says More Than 350 Million Muslims Support Violent Jihad 4


3 May 2013 | Islam

.
Tuesday saw the release of a major international Pew Research study into the opinions of Muslims on a variety of topics. The full report (PDF) is here, but let’s just take a quick peek:


The study is a four-year effort by Pew, which conducted 38,000 face-to-face interviews in 80-plus languages for the survey. In total, 39 countries and territories were included, all of which had over 10 million Muslims living there. …


A majority of Muslims in Asia, Africa and the Middle East favored sharia law being adopted as the law of their countries, with the highest support recorded in Afghanistan at 99 percent. …

The study says that 72 percent of Indonesian Muslims favor making Islamic law the official legal code in the country, compared to 86 percent in Malaysia and 77 percent in Thailand having the same opinion.


islam-will-dominate-the-world


A strong majority surveyed said so-called honor killings could never be justified. The only exceptions came in Afghanistan and Iraq, where majorities condoned executions of women deemed to have shamed their families by engaging in premarital sex or adultery.

Finally, to Pew’s credit, it didn’t ignore the elephant in the room:


The survey found the global median for Muslims opposed to violence in the name of Islam was 72 percent.

Marvellous.

Even though that group includes individuals like the 2009-era Tsarnaev brothers — then still moderate and not yet radicalized — let’s take it at face value and rejoice that a solid majority of Muslims does not openly engage in (or openly support) murder for Allah. 72 percent! Terrific!




http://www.pewforum.org_uploadedFile...ull-report.pdf
Except … well, what about the other 28 percent? There are 1.3 billion Muslims on this planet. If 28 percent of them support violent jihad, that’s 364 million Muslims who condone the murder of apostates, blasphemers, gay people, cartoonists, loose women, and possibly everyone godless enough to attend the Boston marathon.

In the United States, the picture is only marginally better. Eight out of ten U.S. Muslims say it’s not cool to strap a bomb to your chest and kill a bunch of kuffar. But two out of ten say that’s dandy. There are 2.6 million Muslims living in the U.S. … x 19 percent … Yep, almost half a million of them give suicide bombers a big thumbs-up.

Relieved? Reassured? Me neither.

Now let’s take a closer look at the report itself (pages 68-71), rather than the summary:


The survey finds widespread concern about religious extremism in Southeast Asia, South Asia and the Middle EastNorth Africa region. In nearly every country surveyed in these regions, at least half of Muslims say they are very concerned or somewhat concerned about extremist groups.

So roughly half a billion Muslims have no such concerns. Got it.


In Indonesia, nearly eight-in-ten Muslims say they are worried about religious extremism (78%), including more than half (53%) who are worried about Islamic extremists.

That’s adorable. That means that 25 percent of Indonesian Muslims are worried about non-Muslim extremists (of which there are very few in that country) to the exclusion of the violent agitators, murderers, and terrorists in their own midst. And in their way, they’d be right. They themselves will likely not be the targets of fellow Muslims. That fate will have to be borne by Indonesian Christians, Buddhists, or agnostics — or by tourists brave enough to visit a Bali nightclub.

My main takeaway from the Pew study is that the Muslim world seems to be radicalizing at breakneck speed.

Consider: After Gallup opinion-polled tens of thousands of Muslims across 35 nations in the mid-aughts and released its report in 2007, we were told that Muslims were almost totally non-violent. They only desire that the West show a little “respect” for their religion.

At the time, Dalia Mogahed, the executive director of the Gallup Center for Muslim Studies, could hardly stop talking about how widespread the Muslim aversion to Islamic violence was. She said she found that 93 percent of her fellow believers don’t want to see a drop of blood spilled in the name of Mohammed. What she left out was that the seven percent who do amounted to 91 million Muslims.

No doubt there is a difference between Gallup’s questions and methodology on the one hand, and Pew’s on the other. But if their respective numbers are even in the ballpark, and in seven or eight years’ time we’ve gone from roughly 90 million devout self-confessed supporters of Islamic violence to more than 350 million, we may well wonder if the message that Islam is “the religion of peace” is getting through to the followers — much less anyone else. ^^^^^ Islam and its allies seek to downplay the fact that over 350 million support use of violence to push Islam's agenda. I suspect the number is actually much larger.. Let them unite under a Caliphate and the number would increase greatly ,most likely hitting at least 750 million or even more. Believe what you like and what you want I tend to see the savagery , dedication to murder and denial of Jesus's divinity for what it truly is--a absolute dedication to kill or enslave all non-muslims to then force conversion. And that goal is commanded by their Koran and Hadiths. Reject what you want, reject truth and reality . Know this, the God of Abraham demands that truth be accepted over that of any desire= even a desire to appease and defend based upon sympathy or any other false reason. Islam clearly demands Jesus not be acknowledge to be the Son of God and the Savior. I fail to see why you so desperately seek to defend them and thus defend their mission. A man can not serve two masters. Either Islam lies or else Christianity does. I'd advise you to make up your mind. If one decides Christianity is correct they must not defend those that seek to destroy it. Just that simple.--Tyr
^^^^^ Islam and its allies seek to downplay the fact that over 350 million support use of violence to push Islam's agenda. I suspect the number is actually much larger.. Let them unite under a Caliphate and the number would increase greatly ,most likely hitting at least 750 million or even more. Believe what you like and what you want I tend to see the savagery , dedication to murder and denial of Jesus's divinity for what it truly is--a absolute dedication to kill or enslave all non-muslims to then force conversion. And that goal is commanded by their Koran and Hadiths. Reject what you want, reject truth and reality . Know this, the God of Abraham demands that truth be accepted over that of any desire= even a desire to appease and defend based upon sympathy or any other false reason. Islam clearly demands Jesus not be acknowledge to be the Son of God and the Savior. I fail to see why you so desperately seek to defend them and thus defend their mission. A man can not serve two masters. Either Islam lies or else Christianity does. I'd advise you to make up your mind. If one decides Christianity is correct they must not defend those that seek to destroy it. Just that simple.--Tyr

Somebody's numbers do not add up to meet their defensive stand methinks..-Tyr

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Here is what concerns me about a few things on that page:



My first concern - that low of numbers? That averages out to be like 50% over the 4 groups. Wouldn't that mean that 50% surveyed DO NOT see those extremist groups in an unfavorable light?



First off, I wonder why no other major countries outside of these? I wonder if the numbers would change if others were added: Iran, Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq, Egypt... But even with just these, the points to 30+% of people not concerned about extremism in those locales.



Only 57%? How could a single person support them? That's over 4 million people that DID NOT see Al Qaeda with an unfavorable opinion. How does even a single person support such a group? It's simply a group of murderers.

The Taliban reaches a whopping 51%, meaning 49% don't give a crap. Numbers that should point to a great truth that is being denied. First that the number listed as 1% is actually much higher and secondly how many hundreds of millions in very hardcore Muslim governed nations were not questioned at all??? And bear in mind Muslims are religiously taught to present the false face of Islam, that its a peaceful religion. History shows that to be a lie. A peaceful religion would not have murdered over 250 million people in 1400 years. A peaceful religion would not be a quasi military/political movement wrapped in a cloak of religion. One that commands conquering by the sword and/or ANY means possible (treachery, deceit and infiltration etc.) -Tyr

[jafar00]

What kind of thing do we learn at the Mosque?

Took a photo of the whiteboard last night...

Love for others, non Muslims included. Examples given included the many examples of love for others by the Prophet Mohamed (saw) for us to ponder. To love for the sake of Allah not for any gain or worldly reason.

http://i.imgur.com/DndkFH4.jpg

Your survey obviously targeted the wrong people the wrong questions.

[Drummond]

What kind of thing do we learn at the Mosque?

Took a photo of the whiteboard last night...

Love for others, non Muslims included. Examples given included the many examples of love for others by the Prophet Mohamed (saw) for us to ponder. To love for the sake of Allah not for any gain or worldly reason.

http://i.imgur.com/DndkFH4.jpg

Your survey obviously targeted the wrong people the wrong questions.

You can guarantee for us that all whiteboards in the world's mosques have the same messages written on them ??

[Besides - the English comments look, to me, to be written in the same handwriting ... written when, for a specific photo opportunity, maybe ?]

Do you imagine Abu Hamza would've approved of any such 'messaging' in the Finsbury Park mosque, a mosque he once preached within ?