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Tricky Dicky
03-26-2014, 11:49 AM
Roughly and I mean roughly
(1) There were a people spread out over europe beyond the pripet marches, they were known as Rus living in seperate city states ( like the greeks )
(2) They were centred around kiev and adopted the Orthodox religeon and the cyrillic alphabet.
(3) Along came the Mongols and destroyed everything.
(4)Eventually the western and southern lands came under the control of the catholic poles. and the Eastern Rus centred around Moscow obtained their freedom from the Golden horde. The extreme south came under Islamic control.
(5) There were many revolts by the western and southern Rus against alien western control. Eventually the eastern Rus rescued them and they became one people again the Russians. But of couse the long years of seperation meant that different DIALECTS had emergeged such as 'ukraine'
(6) The combined Rus then cleared the Turks out of the extreme south and it was settled by the descendents of Kevian Rus in the west and East Rus in naturally in the east.
(7) when the commies took power, who were by and large members of ethnic minorities, in order to curb the Rus they created the artificial nation of Ukraine and Belarus

tailfins
03-26-2014, 12:29 PM
2nd go - trouble is I've forgot what I posted the last time!

You can get meds for that!

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
03-26-2014, 08:36 PM
You can get meds for that!

I am waiting for him to make a point about it .
So far he has only said some dogs are different. -Tyr

Tricky Dicky
03-29-2014, 06:51 AM
I am waiting for him to make a point about it .
So far he has only said some dogs are different. -Tyr
What I'm trying to get over is this:
Madame Clinton says that Russia is using Nazi tatics. What she has in mind I presume is the ethnic Sudeten Germans in Czechoslovakia.
Let's get this completely clear: the Sudeten Germans were RACIAL Germans speaking a tongue which has as much in common with Czech as English has with Hindi. The Czechs on the other hand were SLAVS!
Now this is completely different from the Ukraine. The 'Ukrainians' are Southern RUS of THE SAME BLOOD as the Eastern RUS or Russians if you will. They both speak variants of the SAME LANGUAGE.
Now I agree Putin's approach instead of stating that he wants all the RUS to be united, seems to be that of protecting the 'Ethic Russians' from the 'Ukrainians' ie his mind set is the same as that of the West.
When for example the South tried to seperate from the Union ( leaving out slavery) the North would not accept the division of a single people - the Anglo Saxon Americans speaking variants of the same language!

Drummond
03-29-2014, 07:25 AM
What I'm trying to get over is this:
Madame Clinton says that Russia is using Nazi tatics. What she has in mind I presume is the ethnic Sudeten Germans in Czechoslovakia.
Let's get this completely clear: the Sudeten Germans were RACIAL Germans speaking a tongue which has as much in common with Czech as English has with Hindi. The Czechs on the other hand were SLAVS!
Now this is completely different from the Ukraine. The 'Ukrainians' are Southern RUS of THE SAME BLOOD as the Eastern RUS or Russians if you will. They both speak variants of the SAME LANGUAGE.
Now I agree Putin's approach instead of stating that he wants all the RUS to be united, seems to be that of protecting the 'Ethic Russians' from the 'Ukrainians' ie his mind set is the same as that of the West.
When for example the South tried to seperate from the Union ( leaving out slavery) the North would not accept the division of a single people - the Anglo Saxon Americans speaking variants of the same language!

But how far do you take this sort of argument ?

OK, try applying this to the US. America's people - for the most part - owe their genetic and historical origins to Britain. Their forefathers originated here, in Britain. English is America's native language. So ... if David Cameron went completely berserk one day, and announced that he wanted to annex the US ... following your principle through, should that all happen, unopposed by anyone ?

Ridiculous .. right ??

Americans would never, in their wildest dreams, want any such thing to happen.

There is only a minority of people in Ukraine (and fairly small minorities at that, depending on the region you're talking about) who want annexation to Russia. Why should they be required to feel any differently ?

Tricky - here's the truth of the matter. It really comes down to power. Political and military power. Russia can annex, and has annexed, Crimea because Russia can say that far more people there want that annexation .. AND .. the military might exists to pull it off. Political power is easier to apply with a more compliant people, and the military power speaks for itself. Ukraine .. more problematic, because political power isn't quite as easy to apply because of the 'minority' situation. Militarily, however, Russia COULD just walk in and take over (and no doubt install a puppet Government).

But the world would be outraged by it. Politically, it'd be difficult - though not impossible.

Tricky, aren't you just, ultimately, advocating a 'might is right' argument ? Freedom, choice .. don't these matter ?

tailfins
03-29-2014, 08:20 AM
O God give me patience or other wise I'll explode!

I would pay admission to see that.

Gaffer
03-29-2014, 08:27 AM
What I'm trying to get over is this:
Madame Clinton says that Russia is using Nazi tatics. What she has in mind I presume is the ethnic Sudeten Germans in Czechoslovakia.
Let's get this completely clear: the Sudeten Germans were RACIAL Germans speaking a tongue which has as much in common with Czech as English has with Hindi. The Czechs on the other hand were SLAVS!
Now this is completely different from the Ukraine. The 'Ukrainians' are Southern RUS of THE SAME BLOOD as the Eastern RUS or Russians if you will. They both speak variants of the SAME LANGUAGE.
Now I agree Putin's approach instead of stating that he wants all the RUS to be united, seems to be that of protecting the 'Ethic Russians' from the 'Ukrainians' ie his mind set is the same as that of the West.
When for example the South tried to seperate from the Union ( leaving out slavery) the North would not accept the division of a single people - the Anglo Saxon Americans speaking variants of the same language!

Clinton knows all about Nazi tactics. And she's right. They are doing what was done in Austria and Czechoslovakia by the Germans. I would have to ask what qualifies as a Russian speaker? Someone who migrated from russia? Second third or fourth generation? A Ukrainian kid that learned Russian in school? How many of the Russian speakers migrated there at the suggestion of the Russian govt? A little trick they learned from the muslims.

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
03-29-2014, 12:12 PM
What I'm trying to get over is this:
Madame Clinton says that Russia is using Nazi tatics. What she has in mind I presume is the ethnic Sudeten Germans in Czechoslovakia.
Let's get this completely clear: the Sudeten Germans were RACIAL Germans speaking a tongue which has as much in common with Czech as English has with Hindi. The Czechs on the other hand were SLAVS!
Now this is completely different from the Ukraine. The 'Ukrainians' are Southern RUS of THE SAME BLOOD as the Eastern RUS or Russians if you will. They both speak variants of the SAME LANGUAGE.
Now I agree Putin's approach instead of stating that he wants all the RUS to be united, seems to be that of protecting the 'Ethic Russians' from the 'Ukrainians' ie his mind set is the same as that of the West.
When for example the South tried to seperate from the Union ( leaving out slavery) the North would not accept the division of a single people - the Anglo Saxon Americans speaking variants of the same language!

Russia has a security interest there no doubt. They also have support of a lot of the citizens in the area they just took. No doubt that Obama's weakness /cowardice stirred Putin to make the move now. Myself, (if he stops at taking Crimea only) I see it as not a big deal to us as a nation. However it is a big deal to Europe . And furthermore once treasure is so easily grabbed the greed sets in to grab more. That's the great danger we face as does the entire world. If Putin just now decides to take much more territory and just say fkk NATO, Europe and the rest of the world. That has the makings of starting a WW3 IMHO.

There exists the possibility that Obama previously secretly agreed to this grab . And is just now playing a role about it all. Remember Obama promised to Putin be more flexible after his re-election. Many missed the big question that begged. Exactly what he was going to be more flexible in allowing? I think it was in promising no U.S military intervention. What obamboy did do was laughable and showed pure weakness of character and backbone to the entire world. Putin already knew it!!!

My concern is not the right or wrong of it which can be argued forever(worthy of another thread) but the extremely likely possibility that Obama is in on it already . He is after all a damn socialist minded muslim and both those ideologies represent a love of the " totalitarian use of might/force " to just take anything..

Admitting that Putin's future moves could disprove it all. We shall see ..

By the way, thanks for giving an explanation and not just running away as so many often do. --Tyr