Journalist defends Islam

[jafar00]

A brilliant interesting speech by Mehdi Hassan at the Oxford Union debating society.

Here is some truth for you :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy9tNyp03M0

Oh, BTW, Islam won the debate. :)

MOTION: THIS HOUSE BELIEVES ISLAM IS A RELIGION OF PEACE.
Yes's: 286
No's: 168

[NightTrain]

But still no real answer as to why Muslims kill more people every day worldwide than any other group of people.

[aboutime]

jafar. You really do believe none of us are smart enough to realize, or understand...or even suspect the reasons those NUMBERS you enjoy so much...are as you said?

Truth is. And not something you are willing to admit...that those numbers clearly show how large numbers of people are nearly in alliance with what we call "Obama-ites" here in the US.
And, that truth is. Like those who voted for Obama. They are deathly afraid to admit their real feelings against your BELOVED False prophet, phony religion of peace.

Fears are strong for those people, the same as those millions of Uninformed, Easily-led, and easily convinced Americans who voted for Obama. They are afraid to be honest, fearing their neighbors, and other Americans who are also AFRAID, would all be declared RACISTS. Like I personally have been accused.
But you relish that feeling of phony superiority over other humans who refuse to lower themselves to your bottom-fed standards of Beheadings, and Personal destruction.
I, on the other hand...PROUDLY DECLARE TO YOU, and every other phony. I AM PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN who believes in my Christian Faith, and my nation based on the REAL LAWS OF MAN.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Utter rot , laced with lies and applauded by ignorant people that have not got a damn clue.
Yes, I watched it and yes I saw exactly what I expected to see. Lies and more lies. The reason for that is Islam can only be defended by lies. The guy laughs when he was first starting his spill because he was thinking to himself--"these gullible infidels will embrace my soothing words and thus will deserve exactly what the future is going to deliver to them." Guess what both he and I agree on that one point. They are so anxious to be friends with Islam that they surrender their right to live without it.. They mentally barter with an opposition that has only the goal of conquering them by any means necessary! Which includes mass murder..

Those idiots applauding were no different than the many Jews that first allowed the Nazi's to get them ready for their own extermination.

Lets just start with the lie the liar stated about Islam and its supposed birthing of advanced math, Algebra .



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_algebra


Conceptual stages[edit]

In addition to the three stages of expressing algebraic ideas, there were four conceptual stages in the development of algebra that occurred alongside the changes in expression. These four stages were as follows:[3]
Geometric stage, where the concepts of algebra are largely geometric. This dates back to the Babylonians and continued with the Greeks, and was later revived by Omar Khayyám.
Static equation-solving stage, where the objective is to find numbers satisfying certain relationships. The move away from geometric algebra dates back to Diophantus and Brahmagupta, but algebra didn't decisively move to the static equation-solving stage until Al-Khwarizmi's Al-Jabr.
Dynamic function stage, where motion is an underlying idea. The idea of a function began emerging with Sharaf al-Dīn al-Tūsī, but algebra did not decisively move to the dynamic function stage until Gottfried Leibniz.
Abstract stage, where mathematical structure plays a central role. Abstract algebra is largely a product of the 19th and 20th centuries.

Babylonian algebra[edit]

See also: Babylonian mathematics





The Plimpton 322 tablet.
The origins of algebra can be traced to the ancient Babylonians,[4][page needed] who developed a positional number system that greatly aided them in solving their rhetorical algebraic equations. The Babylonians were not interested in exact solutions but approximations, and so they would commonly use linear interpolation to approximate intermediate values.[5] One of the most famous tablets is the Plimpton 322 tablet, created around 1900–1600 BCE, which gives a table of Pythagorean triples and represents some of the most advanced mathematics prior to Greek mathematics.[6]

Babylonian algebra was much more advanced than the Egyptian algebra of the time; whereas the Egyptians were mainly concerned with linear equations the Babylonians were more concerned with quadratic and cubic equations.[5] The Babylonians had developed flexible algebraic operations with which they were able to add equals to equals and multiply both sides of an equation by like quantities so as to eliminate fractions and factors.[5] They were familiar with many simple forms of factoring,[5] three-term quadratic equations with positive roots,[7] and many cubic equations[8] although it is not known if they were able to reduce the general cubic equation.[8]

Egyptian algebra[edit]





A portion of the Rhind Papyrus.
See also: Egyptian mathematics

Ancient Egyptian algebra dealt mainly with linear equations while the Babylonians found these equations too elementary and developed mathematics to a higher level than the Egyptians.[5]

The Rhind Papyrus, also known as the Ahmes Papyrus, is an ancient Egyptian papyrus written c. 1650 BCE by Ahmes, who transcribed it from an earlier work that he dated to between 2000 and 1800 BCE.[9] It is the most extensive ancient Egyptian mathematical document known to historians.[10] The Rhind Papyrus contains problems where linear equations of the form x + ax = b and x + ax + bx = c are solved, where a, b, and c are known and x, which is referred to as "aha" or heap, is the unknown.[11] The solutions were possibly, but not likely, arrived at by using the "method of false position", or regula falsi, where first a specific value is substituted into the left hand side of the equation, then the required arithmetic calculations are done, thirdly the result is compared to the right hand side of the equation, and finally the correct answer is found through the use of proportions. In some of the problems the author "checks" his solution, thereby writing one of the earliest known simple proofs.[11]

Greek geometric algebra[edit]

See also: Greek mathematics

It is sometimes alleged that the Greeks had no algebra, but this is inaccurate.[12] By the time of Plato, Greek mathematics had undergone a drastic change. The Greeks created a geometric algebra where terms were represented by sides of geometric objects,[13] usually lines, that had letters associated with them,[14] and with this new form of algebra they were able to find solutions to equations by using a process that they invented, known as "the application of areas".[13] "The application of areas" is only a part of geometric algebra and it is thoroughly covered in Euclid's Elements.

An example of geometric algebra would be solving the linear equation ax = bc. The ancient Greeks would solve this equation by looking at it as an equality of areas rather than as an equality between the ratios a:b and c:x. The Greeks would construct a rectangle with sides of length b and c, then extend a side of the rectangle to length a, and finally they would complete the extended rectangle so as to find the side of the rectangle that is the solution.[13]

Bloom of Thymaridas[edit]

Iamblichus in Introductio arithmatica tells us that Thymaridas (c. 400 BCE – c. 350 BCE) worked with simultaneous linear equations.[15] In particular, he created the then famous rule that was known as the "bloom of Thymaridas" or as the "flower of Thymaridas", which states that:


If the sum of n quantities be given, and also the sum of every pair containing a particular quantity, then this particular quantity is equal to 1/ (n - 2) of the difference between the sums of these pairs and the first given sum.[16]





A proof from Euclid's Elements that, given a line segment, an equilateral triangle exists that includes the segment as one of its sides.
or using modern notion, the solution of the following system of n linear equations in n unknowns,[15]


x + x1 + x2 + ... + xn-1 = s
x + x1 = m1
x + x2 = m2
.
.
.
x + xn-1 = mn-1

is,


x=\cfrac{(m_1 + m_2 + ... + m_{n-1}) - s}{n-2} = \cfrac{ (\sum_{i=1}^{n-1} m_i) -s}{n -2}

Iamblichus goes on to describe how some systems of linear equations that are not in this form can be placed into this form.[15]

Euclid of Alexandria[edit]





Hellenistic mathematician Euclid details geometrical algebra.
Euclid (Greek: Εὐκλείδης) was a Greek mathematician who flourished in Alexandria, Egypt, almost certainly during the reign of Ptolemy I (323–283 BCE).[17][18] Neither the year nor place of his birth[17] have been established, nor the circumstances of his death.

Euclid is regarded as the "father of geometry". His Elements is the most successful textbook in the history of mathematics.[17] Although he is one of the most famous mathematicians in history there are no new discoveries attributed to him, rather he is remembered for his great explanatory skills.[19] The Elements is not, as is sometimes thought, a collection of all Greek mathematical knowledge to its date, rather, it is an elementary introduction to it.[20]

Elements[edit]

The geometric work of the Greeks, typified in Euclid's Elements, provided the framework for generalizing formulae beyond the solution of particular problems into more general systems of stating and solving equations.

Book II of the Elements contains fourteen propositions, which in Euclid's time were extremely significant for doing geometric algebra. These propositions and their results are the geometric equivalents of our modern symbolic algebra and trigonometry.[12] Today, using modern symbolic algebra, we let symbols represent known and unknown magnitudes (i.e. numbers) and then apply algebraic operations on them. While in Euclid's time magnitudes were viewed as line segments and then results were deduced using the axioms or theorems of geometry.[12]

Many basic laws of addition and multiplication are included or proved geometrically in the Elements. For instance, proposition 1 of Book II states:
If there be two straight lines, and one of them be cut into any number of segments whatever, the rectangle contained by the two straight lines is equal to the rectangles contained by the uncut straight line and each of the segments.
But this is nothing more than the geometric version of the (left) distributive law, a(b + c + d) = ab + ac + ad; and in Books V and VII of the Elements the commutative and associative laws for multiplication are demonstrated.[12]

Many basic equations were also proved geometrically. For instance, proposition 5 in Book II proves that a^2 - b^2 = (a + b)(a - b),[21] and proposition 4 in Book II proves that (a + b)^2 = a^2 + 2ab + b^2.[12]

Furthermore, there are also geometric solutions given to many equations. For instance, proposition 6 of Book II gives the solution to the quadratic equation ax + x^2 = b^2, and proposition 11 of Book II gives a solution to ax + x^2 = a^2.[22]

Data[edit]

Data is a work written by Euclid for use at the schools of Alexandria and it was meant to be used as a companion volume to the first six books of the Elements. The book contains some fifteen definitions and ninety-five statements, of which there are about two dozen statements that serve as algebraic rules or formulas.[23] Some of these statements are geometric equivalents to solutions of quadratic equations.[23] For instance, Data contains the solutions to the equations dx^2 - adx + b^2c = 0 and the familiar Babylonian equation xy = a^2, x ± y = b.[23]

Conic sections[edit]

A conic section is a curve that results from the intersection of a cone with a plane. There are three primary types of conic sections: ellipses (including circles), parabolas, and hyperbolas. The conic sections are reputed to have been discovered by Menaechmus[24] (c. 380 BCE – c. 320 BCE) and since dealing with conic sections is equivalent to dealing with their respective equations, they played geometric roles equivalent to cubic equations and other higher order equations.

Menaechmus knew that in a parabola, the equation y2 = lx holds, where l is a constant called the latus rectum, although he was not aware of the fact that any equation in two unknowns determines a curve.[25] He apparently derived these properties of conic sections and others as well. Using this information it was now possible to find a solution to the problem of the duplication of the cube by solving for the points at which two parabolas intersect, a solution equivalent to solving a cubic equation.[25]

We are informed by Eutocius that the method he used to solve the cubic equation was due to Dionysodorus (250 BCE – 190 BCE). Dionysodorus solved the cubic by means of the intersection of a rectangular hyperbola and a parabola. This was related to a problem in Archimedes' On the Sphere and Cylinder. Conic sections would be studied and used for thousands of years by Greek, and later Islamic and European, mathematicians. In particular Apollonius of Perga's famous Conics deals with conic sections, among other topics.

Chinese algebra[edit]

See also: Chinese mathematics

Chinese Mathematics dates to at least 300 BCE with the Chou Pei Suan Ching, generally considered to be one of the oldest Chinese mathematical documents.[26]

Nine Chapters on the Mathematical Art[edit]





Nine Chapters on the Mathematical Art
Chiu-chang suan-shu or The Nine Chapters on the Mathematical Art, written around 250 BCE, is one of the most influential of all Chinese math books and it is composed of some 246 problems. Chapter eight deals with solving determinate and indeterminate simultaneous linear equations using positive and negative numbers, with one problem dealing with solving four equations in five unknowns.[26]

Sea-Mirror of the Circle Measurements[edit]

Ts'e-yuan hai-ching, or Sea-Mirror of the Circle Measurements, is a collection of some 170 problems written by Li Zhi (or Li Ye) (1192 – 1272 CE). He used fan fa, or Horner's method, to solve equations of degree as high as six, although he did not describe his method of solving equations.[27]

Mathematical Treatise in Nine Sections[edit]

Shu-shu chiu-chang, or Mathematical Treatise in Nine Sections, was written by the wealthy governor and minister Ch'in Chiu-shao (c. 1202 – c. 1261 CE) and with the invention of a method of solving simultaneous congruences, now called Chinese remainder theorem, it marks the high point in Chinese indeterminate analysis.[27]

Magic squares[edit]





Yang Hui (Pascal's) triangle, as depicted by the ancient Chinese using rod numerals.
The earliest known magic squares appeared in China.[28] In Nine Chapters the author solves a system of simultaneous linear equations by placing the coefficients and constant terms of the linear equations into a magic square (i.e. a matrix) and performing column reducing operations on the magic square.[28] The earliest known magic squares of order greater than three are attributed to Yang Hui (fl. c. 1261 – 1275), who worked with magic squares of order as high as ten.[29]

Precious Mirror of the Four Elements[edit]

Ssy-yüan yü-chien《四元玉鑒》, or Precious Mirror of the Four Elements, was written by Chu Shih-chieh in 1303 and it marks the peak in the development of Chinese algebra. The four elements, called heaven, earth, man and matter, represented the four unknown quantities in his algebraic equations. The Ssy-yüan yü-chien deals with simultaneous equations and with equations of degrees as high as fourteen. The author uses the method of fan fa, today called Horner's method, to solve these equations.[30]

The Precious Mirror opens with a diagram of the arithmetic triangle (Pascal's triangle) using a round zero symbol, but Chu Shih-chieh denies credit for it. A similar triangle appears in Yang Hui's work, but without the zero symbol.[31]

There are many summation series equations given without proof in the Precious mirror. A few of the summation series are:[31]
1^2 + 2^2 + 3^2 + \cdots + n^2 = {n(n + 1)(2n + 1)\over 3!}1 + 8 + 30 + 80 + \cdots + {n^2(n + 1)(n + 2)\over 3!} = {n(n + 1)(n + 2)(n + 3)(4n + 1)\over 5!}
Diophantine algebra[edit]





Cover of the 1621 edition of Diophantus' Arithmetica, translated into Latin by Claude Gaspard Bachet de Méziriac.
Diophantus was a Hellenistic mathematician who lived c. 250 CE, but the uncertainty of this date is so great that it may be off by more than a century. He is known for having written Arithmetica, a treatise that was originally thirteen books but of which only the first six have survived.[32] Arithmetica has very little in common with traditional Greek mathematics since it is divorced from geometric methods, and it is different from Babylonian mathematics in that Diophantus is concerned primarily with exact solutions, both determinate and indeterminate, instead of simple approximations.[33]

In Arithmetica, Diophantus is the first to use symbols for unknown numbers as well as abbreviations for powers of numbers, relationships, and operations;[33] thus he used what is now known as syncopated algebra. The main difference between Diophantine syncopated algebra and modern algebraic notation is that the former lacked special symbols for operations, relations, and exponentials.[34] So, for example, what we would write as
x^3 - 2x^2 + 10x -1 = 5
Diophantus would have written this as
ΚΥ α̅ς ι̅ ⫛ ΔΥ β̅ Μ α̅ ἴσ Μ ε̅
where the symbols represent the following:[35][36]


Symbol

Representation

α̅ represents 1
β̅ represents 2
ε̅ represents 5
ι̅ represents 10
ς represents the unknown quantity (i.e. the variable)
ἴσ (short for ἴσος) represents "equals"
⫛ represents the subtraction of everything that follows it up to ἴσ
Μ represents the zeroth power of the variable (i.e. a constant term)
ΔΥ represents the second power of the variable, from Greek δύναμις, meaning strength or power
ΚΥ represents the third power of the variable, from Greek κύβος, meaning a cube
ΔΥΔ represents the fourth power of the variable
ΔΚΥ represents the fifth power of the variable
ΚΥΚ represents the sixth power of the variable

Note that the coefficients come after the variables and that addition is represented by the juxtaposition of terms. A literal symbol-for-symbol translation of Diophantus's syncopated equation into a modern symbolic equation would be the following:[35]
{x^3}1{x}10 - {x^2}2{x^0}1 = {x^0}5
and, to clarify, if the modern parentheses and plus are used then the above equation can be rewritten as:[35]
({x^3}1+{x}10) - ({x^2}2+{x^0}1) = {x^0}5
Arithmetica is a collection of some 150 solved problems with specific numbers and there is no postulational development nor is a general method explicitly explained, although generality of method may have been intended and there is no attempt to find all of the solutions to the equations.[33] Arithmetica does contain solved problems involving several unknown quantities, which are solved, if possible, by expressing the unknown quantities in terms of only one of them.[33] Arithmetica also makes use of the identities:[37]

(a^2 + b^2)(c^2 + d^2) = (ac + db)^2 + (bc - ad)^2
= (ad + bc)^2 + (ac - bd)^2

Indian algebra[edit]

See also: Indian mathematics

The method known as "Modus Indorum" or the method of the Indians have become our algebra today. This algebra came along with the Hindu Number system to Arabia and then migrated to Europe. The earliest known Indian mathematical documents are dated to around the middle of the first millennium BCE (around the 6th century BCE).[38]

The recurring themes in Indian mathematics are, among others, determinate and indeterminate linear and quadratic equations, simple mensuration, and Pythagorean triples.[39]

Aryabhata[edit]

Aryabhatta is the first mathematician to solve equations using methods that are acceptable to modern scholarship.[citation needed] Diaophantus of Greece solved equations using special methods.[clarification needed] Aryabhata (476–550 CE) was an Indian mathematician who authored Aryabhatiya. In it he gave the rules,[40]
1^2 + 2^2 + \cdots + n^2 = {n(n + 1)(2n + 1) \over 6}
and
1^3 + 2^3 + \cdots + n^3 = (1 + 2 + \cdots + n)^2
Brahma Sphuta Siddhanta[edit]

Brahmagupta (fl. 628) was an Indian mathematician who authored Brahma Sphuta Siddhanta. In his work Brahmagupta solves the general quadratic equation for both positive and negative roots.[41] In indeterminate analysis Brahmagupta gives the Pythagorean triads m, {1 \over 2}({m^2\over n} - n), {1 \over 2}({m^2\over n} + n), but this is a modified form of an old Babylonian rule that Brahmagupta may have been familiar with.[42] He was the first to give a general solution to the linear Diophantine equation ax + by = c, where a, b, and c are integers. Unlike Diophantus who only gave one solution to an indeterminate equation, Brahmagupta gave all integer solutions; but that Brahmagupta used some of the same examples as Diophantus has led some historians to consider the possibility of a Greek influence on Brahmagupta's work, or at least a common Babylonian source.[43]

Like the algebra of Diophantus, the algebra of Brahmagupta was syncopated. Addition was indicated by placing the numbers side by side, subtraction by placing a dot over the subtrahend, and division by placing the divisor below the dividend, similar to our notation but without the bar. Multiplication, evolution, and unknown quantities were represented by abbreviations of appropriate terms.[43] The extent of Greek influence on this syncopation, if any, is not known and it is possible that both Greek and Indian syncopation may be derived from a common Babylonian source.[43]

Bhāskara II[edit]

Bhāskara II (1114–c. 1185) was the leading mathematician of the 12th century. In Algebra, he gave the general solution of the Pell equation.[43] He is the author of Lilavati and Vija-Ganita, which contain problems dealing with determinate and indeterminate linear and quadratic equations, and Pythagorean triples[39] and he fails to distinguish between exact and approximate statements.[44] Many of the problems in Lilavati and Vija-Ganita are derived from other Hindu sources, and so Bhaskara is at his best in dealing with indeterminate analysis.[44]

Bhaskara uses the initial symbols of the names for colors as the symbols of unknown variables. So, for example, what we would write today as
( -x - 1 ) + ( 2x - 8 ) = x - 9
Bhaskara would have written as
. _ .ya 1 ru 1 .ya 2 ru 8 .Sum ya 1 ru 9
where ya indicates the first syllable of the word for black, and ru is taken from the word species. The dots over the numbers indicate subtraction.

Islamic algebra[edit]





A page from The Compendious Book on Calculation by Completion and Balancing.
See also: Islamic mathematics

The first century of the Islamic Arab Empire saw almost no scientific or mathematical achievements since the Arabs, with their newly conquered empire, had not yet gained any intellectual drive and research in other parts of the world had faded. In the second half of the 8th century, Islam had a cultural awakening, and research in mathematics and the sciences increased.[45] The Muslim Abbasid caliph al-Mamun (809–833) is said to have had a dream where Aristotle appeared to him, and as a consequence al-Mamun ordered that Arabic translation be made of as many Greek works as possible, including Ptolemy's Almagest and Euclid's Elements. Greek works would be given to the Muslims by the Byzantine Empire in exchange for treaties, as the two empires held an uneasy peace.[45] Many of these Greek works were translated by Thabit ibn Qurra (826–901), who translated books written by Euclid, Archimedes, Apollonius, Ptolemy, and Eutocius.[46]

There are three theories about the origins of Arabic Algebra. The first emphasizes Hindu influence, the second emphasizes Mesopotamian or Persian-Syriac influence and the third emphasizes Greek influence. Many scholars believe that it is the result of a combination of all three sources.[47]

Throughout their time in power, before the fall of Islamic civilization, the Arabs used a fully rhetorical algebra, where often even the numbers were spelled out in words. The Arabs would eventually replace spelled out numbers (e.g. twenty-two) with Arabic numerals (e.g. 22), but the Arabs did not adopt or develop a syncopated or symbolic algebra[46] until the work of Ibn al-Banna in the 13th century and Abū al-Hasan ibn Alī al-Qalasādī in the 15th century


Algebra was around thousands of years before birth of Mohammad. In fact, Egyptians used advanced math calculations to build the pyramids! So are you and the liar in the video saying the Egyptians were muslims even before Mohammad's birth??
Muslims did what they do ---they conquered people, stole things including knowledge they had no concept of before!
The liar in the video had to go with that great lie thus exposing what he truly is.-Tyr

[NightTrain]

I know you're sitting there, trying to come up with numbers about America or, even better, Israel killing more people than your muzzies are every day, but that's just not possible.

The only way that's going to happen is if you muzzies finally piss off Israel enough to nuke Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Iran, Saudi, Yemen and Oman.

That's right; Israel has the potential to wipe you fuckers off the map - and we gave that to them. Keep pushing and see where that gets you. They will nuke your backward asses and cleanse the earth by fire.

Why Oman, you ask? Because they're considered the Middle East, the hotbed of Islamic Radicalism and the only way to eradicate this is to kill it outright and start over. You had your chance, Jafar, and you did nothing except profess moderate views that no one believed after your lapses in judgement after partaking of the Hookah.

You should have started an Islamic movement to reign in the 'radicals' that define you, but you do nothing.

When the Big Showdown comes, you will remember that you did nothing.

[jafar00]

But still no real answer as to why Muslims kill more people every day worldwide than any other group of people.

Politics. He even mentioned it in the video. There is a lot of politics happening in Muslim lands which is why there seems to be a lot of Muslims fighting each other for power and money. It has little to do with religion.


Utter rot , laced with lies and applauded by ignorant people that have not got a damn clue.
Yes, I watched it and yes I saw exactly what I expected to see. Lies and more lies. The reason for that is Islam can only be defended by lies. The guy laughs when he was first starting his spill because he was thinking to himself--"these gullible infidels will embrace my soothing words and thus will deserve exactly what the future is going to deliver to them." Guess what both he and I agree on that one point. They are so anxious to be friends with Islam that they surrender their right to live without it.. They mentally barter with an opposition that has only the goal of conquering them by any means necessary! Which includes mass murder..

Those idiots applauding were no different than the many Jews that first allowed the Nazi's to get them ready for their own extermination.

Lets just start with the lie the liar stated about Islam and its supposed birthing of advanced math, Algebra .

Algebra was around thousands of years before birth of Mohammad. In fact, Egyptians used advanced math calculations to build the pyramids! So are you and the liar in the video saying the Egyptians were muslims even before Mohammad's birth??
Muslims did what they do ---they conquered people, stole things including knowledge they had no concept of before!
The liar in the video had to go with that great lie thus exposing what he truly is.-Tyr

Is that all you have?

Algebra is an Arabic word. While the formative concepts of Algebra may have existed before Muslims got hold of it, Algebra didn't exist as we know it today.

Hope you enjoy movies and television. They may not have been possible without the invention of the pinhole camera by a Muslim :)



You should have started an Islamic movement to reign in the 'radicals' that define you, but you do nothing.


So numerous fatwas including one of 600 pages is not enough for you? Is Islamic education in Mosques worldwide to ensure that Muslims are well informed enough not to be strayed by extremists with views that oppose mainstream Islamic thought not enough?

Islam is the Islamic movement that reigns in the "radicals". If they followed Islam, they wouldn't be killing innocent people in order to grab political power in whatever backwater they live in.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Politics. He even mentioned it in the video. There is a lot of politics happening in Muslim lands which is why there seems to be a lot of Muslims fighting each other for power and money. It has little to do with religion.



Is that all you have?

Algebra is an Arabic word. While the formative concepts of Algebra may have existed before Muslims got hold of it, Algebra didn't exist as we know it today.

Hope you enjoy movies and television. They may not have been possible without the invention of the pinhole camera by a Muslim :)





So numerous fatwas including one of 600 pages is not enough for you? Is Islamic education in Mosques worldwide to ensure that Muslims are well informed enough not to be strayed by extremists with views that oppose mainstream Islamic thought not enough?


Islam is the Islamic movement that reigns in the "radicals". If they followed Islam, they wouldn't be killing innocent people in order to grab political power in whatever backwater they live in.

There is no "may have" to it Jafar. The word Algebra is Arabic but the substance of that word was formed thousands of years before Muslims even existed. Yet they and those they deceive give them credit for the totality of it. The liar in the video boasted of that totality.

So if you made furniture that were fantastic works of art and I came over killed you and took them then I get to pass them off as coming from my brain and my hands that's ok or even true?? No, its theft and then lying about it. Islam stole from every country it conquered and even many it did not conquered. History is being rewritten and Islamists are doing it with the help of lying cowardly appeasers.
We that are truly educated and know better and reject all this crap the fools now embrace while they flaunt their supposed enlightenment!!

I embrace history and truth while you subvert it to gather false admiration/praise for your religion. --Tyr

[NightTrain]

Politics. He even mentioned it in the video. There is a lot of politics happening in Muslim lands which is why there seems to be a lot of Muslims fighting each other for power and money. It has little to do with religion.

Muslims are killing innocents which are proclaimed by muslims to be not that big of a deal by other muslims, which other muslims tell me it's not a big deal, just politics. Just a little killin' going on here, no worries!

The fact that muslims are killing more humans than any other group is disturbing, and something you should look into rather than spouting a cavalier "Oh, it's just politics! Nothing to see here, keep moving!".

You all have a major problem, and that is that most of you that are supposedly peaceful do nothing about the animals in your midst doing these everyday atrocities. You allow the animals to plot and plan in your midst, and then claim outrage when you get your asses kicked for supporting Achmed that was building pipebombs in your kitchen.

(If you can't extrapolate from the literal kitchen, then fuck you)

This tells the civilized world that you are all untrustworthy, as you are unwilling to police your own. So, therefore, the United States has to step in, bomb you fuckers further into the Stone Age, and instead of cheering us on for doing your own dirty work, you sit there and snipe about unilateral military action.

Got it.

I'm glad Harry Reid doesn't have his own band of Muslims in Arizona right now or shit would get real. Or maybe that's coming.


Is that all you have?

Algebra is an Arabic word. While the formative concepts of Algebra may have existed before Muslims got hold of it, Algebra didn't exist as we know it today.

Hope you enjoy movies and television. They may not have been possible without the invention of the pinhole camera by a Muslim :)

Don't even get me started on what muzzies have done for modern mankind other than heartache & grief. As I'm sure you're aware, the modern age was brought to you by America.

You're welcome.




So numerous fatwas including one of 600 pages is not enough for you? Is Islamic education in Mosques worldwide to ensure that Muslims are well informed enough not to be strayed by extremists with views that oppose mainstream Islamic thought not enough?

Islam is the Islamic movement that reigns in the "radicals". If they followed Islam, they wouldn't be killing innocent people in order to grab political power in whatever backwater they live in.

You Muzzies are killing people faster than anyone can keep count. The only common denominator there is that you're all muslim. How else is anyone to determine who is a threat other than who is a muslim?

Don't hand me some weak bullshit about a 600 page fatwah, what I want to see (coincidently, the world would like to see!) is an organized takedown of your zealots by your supposedly moderate base.

The WORLD wants results, Jafar. Not empty words here on this forum.

We don't want to bomb you further into the Stone Age. We want you to reign in your own.

You sitting on your comfortable ass in Australia isn't fixing the world's muslim problem.

GET OFF YOUR FAT ASS AND FIX YOUR MUZZIE PROBLEM!

Until then, do NOT complain when we bomb the holy fuck out of your buddies doing their normal muzzie dastardly deeds. We are doing something, you are criticizing the only person to step up to the plate - and doing nothing.

[jafar00]

Muslims are killing innocents which are proclaimed by muslims to be not that big of a deal by other muslims, which other muslims tell me it's not a big deal, just politics. Just a little killin' going on here, no worries!

Oh really? It seems to me that Muslims worldwide are roundly condemning the killing of innocents. The only ones saying it is ok are terrorists.


The fact that muslims are killing more humans than any other group is disturbing, and something you should look into rather than spouting a cavalier "Oh, it's just politics! Nothing to see here, keep moving!".

Wrong. It seems the group that is killing more humans than any other group at the moment are the Alawites and their Shia friends. 120,000+ deaths and counting, and that's just since 2011.

Not to mention the biggest killers of all, the USA

The following table of deaths from the 2nd Iraq war alone is an estimate of the death and suffering at the hands of the US military.

<tbody>
Source
Casualties
Time period


Associated Press (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associated_Press)
110,600 violent deaths
March 2003 to April 2009


Iraq Body Count project (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Body_Count_project)
112,667–123,284 civilian deaths from violence. 174,000 civilian and combatant deaths[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War#cite_note-iraqbodycountlogs-1)[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War#cite_note-2)[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War#cite_note-3)[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War#cite_note-4)
March 2003 to March 2013


Iraq Family Health Survey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Family_Health_Survey)
151,000 violent deaths
March 2003 to June 2006


Lancet survey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancet_surveys_of_Iraq_War_casualties)
601,027 violent deaths out of 654,965 excess deaths
March 2003 to June 2006


Opinion Research Business survey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORB_survey_of_Iraq_War_casualties)
1,033,000 deaths as a result of the conflict
March 2003 to August 2007


PLOS Medicine Survey (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=PLOS_Medicine_Survey_of_Iraq_War_c asualties&action=edit&redlink=1)[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War#cite_note-5)
Approximately 500,000 deaths in Iraq as direct or indirect result of the war.
March 2003 to June, 2011


Classified Iraq War Logs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War_Logs)[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War#cite_note-iraqbodycountlogs-1)[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War#cite_note-guardianlogs3-6)[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War#cite_note-guardianlogs-7)[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War#cite_note-aljazeeralogs2-8)
109,032 deaths including 66,081 civilian deaths.[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War#cite_note-spiegel-9)[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War#cite_note-guardianlogs2-10)
January 2004 to December 2009

</tbody>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War



You all have a major problem, and that is that most of you that are supposedly peaceful do nothing about the animals in your midst doing these everyday atrocities. You allow the animals to plot and plan in your midst, and then claim outrage when you get your asses kicked for supporting Achmed that was building pipebombs in your kitchen.

(If you can't extrapolate from the literal kitchen, then fuck you)

This tells the civilized world that you are all untrustworthy, as you are unwilling to police your own. So, therefore, the United States has to step in, bomb you fuckers further into the Stone Age, and instead of cheering us on for doing your own dirty work, you sit there and snipe about unilateral military action.

In my midst? These animals you speak of are nowhere near me or other Muslims. They keep to themselves in their little groups. They wouldn't dare come near our Mosques.


Don't hand me some weak bullshit about a 600 page fatwah, what I want to see (coincidently, the world would like to see!) is an organized takedown of your zealots by your supposedly moderate base.

That fatwa is not hard to find. There are many others but this one is particularly details. I don't expect you to read a word of it, but here is a link I googled for you nonetheless.

http://www.quranandwar.com/FATWA%20on%20Terrorism%20and%20Suicide%20Bombings. pdf

The author of the above fatwa has impressive Islamic credentials btw.


The WORLD wants results, Jafar. Not empty words here on this forum.

We don't want to bomb you further into the Stone Age. We want you to reign in your own.

There was a program of re-education of terrorists to turn them to the correct Islamic path that had a 98% success rate. It was discontinued due to lack of funding however. I'm sure the US would have spent a lot less money funding Islamic education instead of spending money on bombs and a huge military. This would also have won the hearts and minds of millions.

War is not clever for whatever reason.

[NightTrain]

Oh really? It seems to me that Muslims worldwide are roundly condemning the killing of innocents. The only ones saying it is ok are terrorists.

Strange, I haven't heard anything about that.

Apparently, most muzzies haven't heard about it, either, judging by the numbers! Are you claiming that muslim killings are down?



Wrong. It seems the group that is killing more humans than any other group at the moment are the Alawites and their Shia friends. 120,000+ deaths and counting, and that's just since 2011.

The Alawites, also known as Alawis (ʿAlawīyyah Arabic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_language): علوية‎), are a prominent mystical (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mysticism) religious group, centred in Syria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria), who follow a branch of the Twelver (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelver)school of Shia Islam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shia_Islam)but with syncretistic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syncretistic) elements.

Oops. Sounds like Muzzies to me.

Thanks for proving my point.


Not to mention the biggest killers of all, the USA

I deleted your bullshit 2009 chart; we're talking about today.

As I said before, we don't want to bomb you people back into the correct age; we have to because you won't police yourselves, you cowardly worms.


In my midst? These animals you speak of are nowhere near me or other Muslims. They keep to themselves in their little groups. They wouldn't dare come near our Mosques.

Of course. And you've always been outspoken about how fucked up Radical Islam is here, among Americans. Yes, I remember how you thanked us for punishing the Taliban and how you cheered Israel's defenses lately. I'm sure you are a real troublemaker!

Tell us of the boards and your username so we can verify your pleas for peace and tolerance, O wise one. Google will verify all.

I can only imagine what a firebrand you are amongst your fellow muzzies on the Palestinian boards as you preach peace and tolerance.


That fatwa is not hard to find. There are many others but this one is particularly details. I don't expect you to read a word of it, but here is a link I googled for you nonetheless.

http://www.quranandwar.com/FATWA%20on%20Terrorism%20and%20Suicide%20Bombings. pdf

The author of the above fatwa has impressive Islamic credentials btw.

Too bad no one listens to it, right?

Why is it that the only fatwas observed are the ones that have to do with a Dutch Cartoonist? Think maybe it's time to mobilize that ass off the chair and try to save islam?


There was a program of re-education of terrorists to turn them to the correct Islamic path that had a 98% success rate. It was discontinued due to lack of funding however. I'm sure the US would have spent a lot less money funding Islamic education instead of spending money on bombs and a huge military. This would also have won the hearts and minds of millions.

War is not clever for whatever reason.

I see. So, it's our fault for not giving you pirates billions of dollars.

Giving you people money has been historically a bad idea. You all hate us anyway, no matter how many billions we've given you people, but you still want more and you still hate us more.

Fuck that.

Muslims haven't been relevant as a society for thousands of years - oil has been the only factor to forcing any civilization to deal with them. Fracking has changed that game.

Even though you're in Australia, here's a few pointers for you to pass on to your muslim brethren :

Be financially responsible and pay your own way and stop asking us for money and food. Curb your fanatics like civilized people to these days. Women are just as valid as you are and should vote - they should also kick your ass when you fuck up. Women should cover themselves as much as you do, fair is fair. Israel is a nuclear power and has been for a long time - there will come a day when you fuckers will push her too far and she will permanently eliminate a muslim country - and we will block any UN sanctions.

In my opinion, she should have done it years ago and all this bullshit wouldn't be taking place.

[jafar00]

I have a verse for you NightTrain.

In the Qur'an We have explained things to people in myriad ways. But no matter what Sign you bring to them, those who are resolved upon denying the Truth will say: “You are given to falsehood.”
Thus does Allah seal the hearts of those who have no knowledge. (30:58-59)

It seems you are resigned to live in the belief of falsehood.

[NightTrain]

I have a verse for you NightTrain.

In the Qur'an We have explained things to people in myriad ways. But no matter what Sign you bring to them, those who are resolved upon denying the Truth will say: “You are given to falsehood.”
Thus does Allah seal the hearts of those who have no knowledge. (30:58-59)

It seems you are resigned to live in the belief of falsehood.

I have a verse for you, Jafar.

It is an old and cherished American bit of wisdom, and it goes like this :

If it looks like a duck;
If it acts like a duck;
If it quacks like a duck;
Most likely it's a fucking duck.

[NightTrain]

In all seriousness, I would love to see your pleas for tolerance and you railing against radical islam in the muslim forums.

I have translators courtesy of google; lay it on me.

If you are sincere, I will be the first to apologize to you right here in this very thread.

I will even make an official apology thread and ask Jim to sticky it on the top of the forum.

This is where the rubber meets the road, Jafar. Cowboy up.

[fj1200]

But still no real answer as to why Muslims kill more people every day worldwide than any other group of people.

Poverty, ignorance, and theocracies.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Poverty, ignorance, and theocracies.

First two the dems promote and love. However the third one they Hate (if its Christian or Jewish).
Yet they put that HATE aside since the third one when its ISLAM seeks the destruction of this nation as do they!! The old- "enemy of my enemy is my friend" adage.

Now we Conservatives reject all three and are hated for it.. No Conservative I know wants a theocracy here. One can not be loyal to the Constitution and this nation and want that too.

Yes, I know you typed those words specifically about the Islamic jihadists. Yet when myself and others ever so rightly condemn Islam and its methods(murder, rape, enslavement etc.) you often come in defending them in a clever way. Sure you try to tie that to fair treatment but I say well known and proven murdering scum deserve no fair treatment at all (see Nazis as an example). Every Jihadist should be shot down on the spot. Like one would do a rabid dog in their yard snapping at their kids. They are vermin that murder (innocent women and children) for pleasure and for Allah. It just doesn't get any worse than that Hoss. Not in my book it doesn't!!!! --Tyr

[fj1200]

^Yeah, OK.

[Drummond]

Not to mention the biggest killers of all, the USA

The following table of deaths from the 2nd Iraq war alone is an estimate of the death and suffering at the hands of the US military.

<tbody>
Source
Casualties
Time period


Associated Press (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associated_Press)
110,600 violent deaths
March 2003 to April 2009


Iraq Body Count project (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Body_Count_project)
112,667–123,284 civilian deaths from violence. 174,000 civilian and combatant deaths[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War#cite_note-iraqbodycountlogs-1)[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War#cite_note-2)[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War#cite_note-3)[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War#cite_note-4)
March 2003 to March 2013


Iraq Family Health Survey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Family_Health_Survey)
151,000 violent deaths
March 2003 to June 2006


Lancet survey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancet_surveys_of_Iraq_War_casualties)
601,027 violent deaths out of 654,965 excess deaths
March 2003 to June 2006


Opinion Research Business survey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORB_survey_of_Iraq_War_casualties)
1,033,000 deaths as a result of the conflict
March 2003 to August 2007


PLOS Medicine Survey (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=PLOS_Medicine_Survey_of_Iraq_War_c asualties&action=edit&redlink=1)[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War#cite_note-5)
Approximately 500,000 deaths in Iraq as direct or indirect result of the war.
March 2003 to June, 2011


Classified Iraq War Logs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War_Logs)[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War#cite_note-iraqbodycountlogs-1)[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War#cite_note-guardianlogs3-6)[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War#cite_note-guardianlogs-7)[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War#cite_note-aljazeeralogs2-8)
109,032 deaths including 66,081 civilian deaths.[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War#cite_note-spiegel-9)[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War#cite_note-guardianlogs2-10)
January 2004 to December 2009

</tbody>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War


One quick, and I'd have though very obvious, point to make.

In posting this .. and given your words 'Not to mention the biggest killers of all, the USA' .. you seem to be inferring, and want others to believe, that these death tolls were created by Americans. That, for each figure quoted, these are people Americans have murdered. Yes ?

IN TRYING TO SO MUCH AS HINT AT THAT MESSAGE, YOU PROVE YOUR HOSTILITY TOWARDS AMERICA.

Anyone taking time out to think about this .. and this assumes any degree of accuracy in these figures .. will understand some relevant factors. Such as, how many of those are innocent civilians, how many terrorists ? Or, how many are soldiers killed, contributing to the totals ? Or, how many are innocents killed by terrorists ?

If the transition from Saddam's despotism to democracy hadn't involved terrorist activity in the interim, if all had been smooth and peaceful, rather than a melting-pot of terrorist interference, Coalition forces would have had nothing to fight, NO military actions to undertake, and scant reason for staying so long in Iraq. As it was and is, terrorists have flocked to the country, looking for Westerners to murder .. and not caring if innocent civilians got in the way.

But .. 'strangely', Jafar, you seem to be ignoring ALL OF THESE ADDITIONAL FACTORS.

So I say .. your hatred towards the American and (I must presume) Coalition forces generally, is evident for all to see.

And that's a strange stance, isn't it, for a truly 'peaceloving' Islamist, originating from Australia, to adopt .. ? WHERE IS YOUR ENTHUSIASM FOR UNDERSTANDING THE CULPABILITY, AND THE STATISTICAL FACT, OF TERRORIST SLAUGHTER IN ALL OF THIS ??

[aboutime]

One quick, and I'd have though very obvious, point to make.

In posting this .. and given your words 'Not to mention the biggest killers of all, the USA' .. you seem to be inferring, and want others to believe, that these death tolls were created by Americans. That, for each figure quoted, these are people Americans have murdered. Yes ?

IN TRYING TO SO MUCH AS HINT AT THAT MESSAGE, YOU PROVE YOUR HOSTILITY TOWARDS AMERICA.

Anyone taking time out to think about this .. and this assumes accurate figures, which they may NOT be .. will understand some relevant factors. Such as, how many are innocent civilians, how many terrorists ? Or, how many are soldiers killed ? Or, how many are innocents killed by terrorists ?

If the transition from Saddam's despotism to democracy hadn't involved terrorist activity in the interim, if all had been smooth and peaceful, rather than a melting-pot of terrorist interference, Coalition forces would have had nothing to fight, NO military actions to undertake, and scant reason for staying so long in Iraq. As it was and is, terrorists have flocked to the country, looking for Westerners to murder .. and not caring if innocent civilians got in the way.

But .. 'strangely', Jafar, you seem to be ignoring ALL OF THESE ADDITIONAL FACTORS.

So I say .. your hatred towards the American and (I must presume) Coalition forces generally, is evident for all to see.

And that's a strange stance, isn't it, for a truly 'peaceloving' Islamist, originating from Australia, to adopt .. ? WHERE IS YOUR ENTHUSIASM FOR UNDERSTANDING THE CULPABILITY, AND THE STATISTICAL FACT, OF TERRORIST SLAUGHTER IN ALL OF THIS ??


Sir Drummond. A reminder. jafar only comes here to instigate, and advertise his propaganda. Pretending to be someone he IS NOT, and hoping all of us are as uninformed, and gullible as those he admires so much...before the Bomb Goes Off.

[Drummond]

Sir Drummond. A reminder. jafar only comes here to instigate, and advertise his propaganda. Pretending to be someone he IS NOT, and hoping all of us are as uninformed, and gullible as those he admires so much...before the Bomb Goes Off.:clap::clap::clap:

Well said. I absolutely agree.

In posting my piece, I even missed the words 'of the death and suffering at the hands of the US military.' .. which he'd posted. The hostile accusation was even more candidly made than I'd thought.

ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING.

My point is made. Terrorist activity, terrorist slaughter, mandated the continued American and Coalition presence, and their military response. Jafar COULD concentrate his attacking prose against those terrorists. But we DO NOT SEE THAT .. we see the effort made to blame AMERICA.

This says it all.

[jimnyc]

ANY religion, if peaceful, shouldn't need journalists to state their case. What matters at the end of the day are simple facts and statistics. Imagine, if the amount of energy and time that is spent in defending Islam as peaceful, was used to continually speak against radicals, was used to arrest and round up radicals and terrorists, was used to continually show respective countries how bad the radical ways are....

For example, I could say this about the Catholic church - don't give me lip service and fancy talking around sex scandals with priests. Just hand over the guilty and making this never happen again a top priority.

The problem I see is that terrorism still breeds, far too many places don't do a damn thing about women's rights and/or abuses & the radicals within the religion seem to speak out more than those opposed from the majority. So until Islamic nations stand up and join the world in ridding of terrorists, even working with them and inviting them to places they cannot do themselves, they will be looked at as sympathizers. The women's rights and abuses is a serious issue that exists and I've always stood against. And this is the easiest of all to fix. Simply make laws to protect women, make laws to give women equal rights. Make harsh laws to penalize anyone who abuses a woman. I don't know why there are so many areas that still have so much violence and abuse towards women.

[jafar00]

In all seriousness, I would love to see your pleas for tolerance and you railing against radical islam in the muslim forums.

I have translators courtesy of google; lay it on me.

If you are sincere, I will be the first to apologize to you right here in this very thread.

I will even make an official apology thread and ask Jim to sticky it on the top of the forum.

This is where the rubber meets the road, Jafar. Cowboy up.

They only forums I know have people asking advice about everyday normal things, not extremism because the 99.99999% of Muslims don't encounter extremism from our fellow Muslims.

Like I said, extremists tend to stick to themselves and their little groups, isolated from society.


Poverty, ignorance, and theocracies.

Poverty, Ignorance, living under brutal western backed Dictatorships, politics and power vacuums.


One quick, and I'd have though very obvious, point to make.

In posting this .. and given your words 'Not to mention the biggest killers of all, the USA' .. you seem to be inferring, and want others to believe, that these death tolls were created by Americans. That, for each figure quoted, these are people Americans have murdered. Yes ?

IN TRYING TO SO MUCH AS HINT AT THAT MESSAGE, YOU PROVE YOUR HOSTILITY TOWARDS AMERICA.

Shock and Awe. Yeh, nobody was killed by this were they? It was just fireworks.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NktsxucDvNI

Of course we can't forget this terrible act of mass killing.

Brought to us by the Christians of USA :p


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6l5jI4iO4-g


If the transition from Saddam's despotism to democracy hadn't involved terrorist activity in the interim, if all had been smooth and peaceful, rather than a melting-pot of terrorist interference, Coalition forces would have had nothing to fight, NO military actions to undertake, and scant reason for staying so long in Iraq. As it was and is, terrorists have flocked to the country, looking for Westerners to murder .. and not caring if innocent civilians got in the way.

But .. 'strangely', Jafar, you seem to be ignoring ALL OF THESE ADDITIONAL FACTORS.

So I say .. your hatred towards the American and (I must presume) Coalition forces generally, is evident for all to see.

And that's a strange stance, isn't it, for a truly 'peaceloving' Islamist, originating from Australia, to adopt .. ? WHERE IS YOUR ENTHUSIASM FOR UNDERSTANDING THE CULPABILITY, AND THE STATISTICAL FACT, OF TERRORIST SLAUGHTER IN ALL OF THIS ??

There were no terrorism attacks in Iraq before the USA went in. Now it is a hotbed. There is something in that eh?


ANY religion, if peaceful, shouldn't need journalists to state their case. What matters at the end of the day are simple facts and statistics. Imagine, if the amount of energy and time that is spent in defending Islam as peaceful, was used to continually speak against radicals, was used to arrest and round up radicals and terrorists, was used to continually show respective countries how bad the radical ways are....

Journalists are needed to defend Islam because a great deal more journalists and others are involved in anti Islam propaganda which appears to be a well funded and organised group. I have my theories about who is behind that but you would probably reject it. ;)


The problem I see is that terrorism still breeds, far too many places don't do a damn thing about women's rights and/or abuses & the radicals within the religion seem to speak out more than those opposed from the majority. So until Islamic nations stand up and join the world in ridding of terrorists, even working with them and inviting them to places they cannot do themselves, they will be looked at as sympathizers. The women's rights and abuses is a serious issue that exists and I've always stood against. And this is the easiest of all to fix. Simply make laws to protect women, make laws to give women equal rights. Make harsh laws to penalize anyone who abuses a woman. I don't know why there are so many areas that still have so much violence and abuse towards women.

Islam can give those rights back to Women as it did in the early days. What we have now in many places is simple despotism, subjugation and dictatorships wrapped in a supposed Sharia shell which is BS.

There is nothing in Islam to stop women driving
There is nothing in Islam to force women to wear the hijab
There is nothing in Islam to force women into marriages they don't want. In fact there is in built protection against it!
There is nothing in Islam to support FGM
etc....

[jimnyc]

Islam can give those rights back to Women as it did in the early days. What we have now in many places is simple despotism, subjugation and dictatorships wrapped in a supposed Sharia shell which is BS.

There is nothing in Islam to stop women driving
There is nothing in Islam to force women to wear the hijab
There is nothing in Islam to force women into marriages they don't want. In fact there is in built protection against it!
There is nothing in Islam to support FGM
etc....

You are correct, and I should have made myself more clear. I sure wasn't trying to blame Islam, the religion, as something taught from the Quran or simple. I was mentioning "areas" that are considered Islamic countries. I honestly don't know for sure where it stems from, other than years of it being allowed and/or going unpunished. Change within society is difficult, and takes time - but it shouldn't be allowed to take too much time when it's people's basic human rights involved, IMO. Unfortunately, it's left up to the countries where this happens, or their local jurisdictions. Definitely a disconnect in a lot of areas though.

I think having women speaking up more, having more power, politicians... I think it would go a long way towards others perceptions. Look at what one young girl named Malala did for Islam by simply voicing her opinions, and continuing to do so even after all she has been through.

[aboutime]

You are correct, and I should have made myself more clear. I sure wasn't trying to blame Islam, the religion, as something taught from the Quran or simple. I was mentioning "areas" that are considered Islamic countries. I honestly don't know for sure where it stems from, other than years of it being allowed and/or going unpunished. Change within society is difficult, and takes time - but it shouldn't be allowed to take too much time when it's people's basic human rights involved, IMO. Unfortunately, it's left up to the countries where this happens, or their local jurisdictions. Definitely a disconnect in a lot of areas though.

I think having women speaking up more, having more power, politicians... I think it would go a long way towards others perceptions. Look at what one young girl named Malala did for Islam by simply voicing her opinions, and continuing to do so even after all she has been through.


jimnyc. Take note how jafar uses his language skills to circumvent the truth by NOT saying it, or referring to it.
In his list. He never once alluded to..."IF THE WOMEN DO NOT OBEY THE MEN, THEY ARE PUNISHED". And there is nothing in ISLAM to PREVENT THAT either!

Right jafar???

[fj1200]

Poverty, Ignorance, living under brutal western backed Dictatorships, politics and power vacuums.

And theocracies.

[jafar00]

jimnyc. Take note how jafar uses his language skills to circumvent the truth by NOT saying it, or referring to it.
In his list. He never once alluded to..."IF THE WOMEN DO NOT OBEY THE MEN, THEY ARE PUNISHED". And there is nothing in ISLAM to PREVENT THAT either!

Right jafar???

Oh really? Tell me more ;)


And theocracies.

Iran and The Vatican? :)

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

They only forums I know have people asking advice about everyday normal things, not extremism because the 99.99999% of Muslims don't encounter extremism from our fellow Muslims.

Like I said, extremists tend to stick to themselves and their little groups, isolated from society.



Poverty, Ignorance, living under brutal western backed Dictatorships, politics and power vacuums.



Shock and Awe. Yeh, nobody was killed by this were they? It was just fireworks.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NktsxucDvNI

Of course we can't forget this terrible act of mass killing.

Brought to us by the Christians of USA :p


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6l5jI4iO4-g



There were no terrorism attacks in Iraq before the USA went in. Now it is a hotbed. There is something in that eh?



Journalists are needed to defend Islam because a great deal more journalists and others are involved in anti Islam propaganda which appears to be a well funded and organised group. I have my theories about who is behind that but you would probably reject it. ;)



Islam can give those rights back to Women as it did in the early days. What we have now in many places is simple despotism, subjugation and dictatorships wrapped in a supposed Sharia shell which is BS.

There is nothing in Islam to stop women driving
There is nothing in Islam to force women to wear the hijab
There is nothing in Islam to force women into marriages they don't want. In fact there is in built protection against it!
There is nothing in Islam to support FGM
etc....

All that stated as you support Hamas. You list war casualties on par with murdered terrorist victims!

I suspect you may have stepped over the line with that and you owe an apology to America and the 9/11 victims along with the many, many thousands of others around the world. Your call..-Tyr

[jafar00]

All that stated as you support Hamas.

I DO NOT SUPPORT HAMAS.

It's so annoying for you to keep saying that.

[fj1200]

Iran and The Vatican? :)

Well the Vatican doesn't really rule over anyone... And I'm not sure of your Iran reference.


It's so annoying for you to keep saying that.

You know you're winning when... ;)

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I DO NOT SUPPORT HAMAS.

It's so annoying for you to keep saying that.

Really!!???

So denounce Hamas right here and now! With no damn caveats..

Agree that they are a terrorist organization and should be utterly destroyed.

A simple yes in reply will do but be sure to bold and capitalize it please. ;)

If you do that I'll not accuse you of supporting them again but playing the game most Muslims play of SECRETLY giving moral support and refusing to publicly denounce Hamas doesn't cut it with this American. I am by no means a gullible person.. I've been around the block a few hundred times and usually kicked asses that richly deserved it along the way.. --Tyr

[aboutime]

I DO NOT SUPPORT HAMAS.

It's so annoying for you to keep saying that.


jafar. WANNA BET?

Easy way to prove what we say about your admiration for Hamas.

If YOU were standing in the street, somewhere in the GAZA strip, between an Israeli, and a Palestinian...and rockets were falling around you. Who would you seek shelter with????

Not a difficult question, is it?

[jafar00]

Well the Vatican doesn't really rule over anyone... And I'm not sure of your Iran reference.

Iran is ruled by a Theocracy. The Ayatollah is the supreme leader there.


Really!!???

So denounce Hamas right here and now! With no damn caveats..

Agree that they are a terrorist organization and should be utterly destroyed.

A simple yes in reply will do but be sure to bold and capitalize it please. ;)

If you do that I'll not accuse you of supporting them again but playing the game most Muslims play of SECRETLY giving moral support and refusing to publicly denounce Hamas doesn't cut it with this American. I am by no means a gullible person.. I've been around the block a few hundred times and usually kicked asses that richly deserved it along the way.. --Tyr

That is a special case and you know it. Support or not is conditional and in only certain situations.

Name another nation state that is currently subjected to illegal collective punishment? The closest thing I can think of to Gaza is the Warsaw Ghetto of WW2.

When you think of it like that, you can understand why I applaud actions taken to fight back against Israeli oppression, but to also condemn their own oppressive and anti Islamic behaviour behind the blockade.


jafar. WANNA BET?

Easy way to prove what we say about your admiration for Hamas.

If YOU were standing in the street, somewhere in the GAZA strip, between an Israeli, and a Palestinian...and rockets were falling around you. Who would you seek shelter with????

Not a difficult question, is it?

I'd stick with the Mossad guy. It's unlikely he would be targeted.

[fj1200]

Iran is ruled by a Theocracy. The Ayatollah is the supreme leader there.

I know, I'm just not sure how you're figuring them into the conversation. As far as I know the Iranians are relatively wealthy and relatively educated.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

That is a special case and you know it. Support or not is conditional and in only certain situations.

Name another nation state that is currently subjected to illegal collective punishment? The closest thing I can think of to Gaza is the Warsaw Ghetto of WW2.

When you think of it like that, you can understand why I applaud actions taken to fight back against Israeli oppression, but to also condemn their own oppressive and anti Islamic behaviour behind the blockade.

^^^^^^^^^^ There came those caveats right on Q..
So you answered no..
Thanks for playing amigo..
So here is how you actually answered. "Sorry no can do because I like some other minor things those murdering savages do and think. Those minor things far outweigh the lives of those innocent people they slaughter."

I understand amigo, just don't expect me to go along with such mistaken, illogical and totally unsound thinking because I will not ever buy a "pig in a poke" like that.--Tyr

[jafar00]

^^^^^^^^^^ There came those caveats right on Q..
So you answered no..
Thanks for playing amigo..
So here is how you actually answered. "Sorry no can do because I like some other minor things those murdering savages do and think. Those minor things far outweigh the lives of those innocent people they slaughter."

I understand amigo, just don't expect me to go along with such mistaken, illogical and totally unsound thinking because I will not ever buy a "pig in a poke" like that.--Tyr

Yet, you overlook Israel's brutal murders of innocent people and the occupation and illegal collective punishment of the Palestinians.

I condemn it when either side kills innocents. I only applaud when a subjugated people rise up to fight against an oppressive occupying force as the Palestinians do.

You seem to have a history of supporting tyrants don't you? Assad, Israel, Qadhafi...

[Gaffer]

Yet, you overlook Israel's brutal murders of innocent people and the occupation and illegal collective punishment of the Palestinians.

I condemn it when either side kills innocents. I only applaud when a subjugated people rise up to fight against an oppressive occupying force as the Palestinians do.

You seem to have a history of supporting tyrants don't you? Assad, Israel, Qadhafi...

Comparing Israel with arab tyrants is just muslim propaganda. Israel has never launched a war of aggression against it's neighbors. They have fought only in defense. Taking land that was used to launch attacks from is only logical.

If you have hamas setting up rocket sites in a school yard and launching hundreds of rockets at cities and towns in Israel, isn't it logical to strike at that site and eliminate the rockets. The fact that hamas is hiding behind children doesn't seem to fit into your view of things.

I like seeing the tyrants taken down, but I have to worry about who replaces them. Replacing the devil you know with the devil you don't is not always a wise move. And most of these "rebel" forces are al qaeda type fanatics supported by wahabi sauds. So you replace a despot with religious fanatics. Those are really the only choices in the ME. Until they can set up secular govt's that don't have sharia law as their main legal basis you will continue to have strife and war.

[Drummond]

Shock and Awe. Yeh, nobody was killed by this were they? It was just fireworks.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NktsxucDvNI

Shock and awe indeed, Jafar. Caused by Saddam's intransigence, his refusal to straightforwardly account for WMD stocks. Caused additionally by Saddam's dodgy dealings with Islamic terrorists, not least Hamas, all this proving that any stockpile held by Saddam was not one he could be trusted with.

Saddam was given a peaceful 'out' prior to the beginnings of the attacks. HE DID NOT TAKE IT.

What you're enthusiastic about laying at the US's door, Jafar, SADDAM HAD AMPLE OPPORTUNITY, GIVEN TO HIM, TO AVERT.

[QUOTE]Brought to us by the Christians of USA :p


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6l5jI4iO4-g

There were no terrorism attacks in Iraq before the USA went in. Now it is a hotbed. There is something in that eh?

Yes, there is. In Saddam, terrorists had a friend, so why would they attack him ?? But after Saddam was deposed, so Muslim terrorists moved in and created the problem Coalition forces have been DEFENDING AGAINST, EVER SINCE.

So tell me, Jafar, just how many deaths HAVE Muslim terrorists been directly responsible for, eh ?

THAT'S AS OPPOSED TO INDIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL THE REST OF THEM ...

[aboutime]

Iran is ruled by a Theocracy. The Ayatollah is the supreme leader there.



That is a special case and you know it. Support or not is conditional and in only certain situations.

Name another nation state that is currently subjected to illegal collective punishment? The closest thing I can think of to Gaza is the Warsaw Ghetto of WW2.

When you think of it like that, you can understand why I applaud actions taken to fight back against Israeli oppression, but to also condemn their own oppressive and anti Islamic behaviour behind the blockade.



I'd stick with the Mossad guy. It's unlikely he would be targeted.


jafar. Not only are you predictable. You seem even more willing to prove how absolutely dumb you are as well. Guess that comes with the promise of an eventual 72 year old virgin man in your future???

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Yet, you overlook Israel's brutal murders of innocent people and the occupation and illegal collective punishment of the Palestinians.

I condemn it when either side kills innocents. I only applaud when a subjugated people rise up to fight against an oppressive occupying force as the Palestinians do.

You seem to have a history of supporting tyrants don't you? Assad, Israel, Qadhafi...

I have a real life history of beating the hell out of would be tyrants.. Does that count?? :laugh:-Tyr

[jafar00]

I have a real life history of beating the hell out of would be tyrants.. Does that count?? :laugh:-Tyr

Who?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Who?

Why would it matter. Nobody you know but saved a helluva lot of people the misery degradation they experienced by the actions of such people. Back when I was very active giving "attitude adjustments" I rarely ever had to bless the same person twice...:laugh:
And never ever a third time... Fact--Tyr

[fj1200]

Why would it matter.

He asked which "would-be-tyrants," not which would-be-thugs.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

He asked which "would-be-tyrants," not which would-be-thugs.

Ahhhh, I find it quite interesting that you do not know they are in most cases same thing. :slap:
Just the top ones rule over a nation the lesser ones rule over a much smaller number of people.
And there was nothing "would be" about the ones I blessed with a damn fine ass stomping.-:laugh:

I do not know but think possibly you haven't a clue about that kind of life, those kind of people and how brutal they are to their victims. And how real the misery is as long as its allowed to continue. I spent my blood and treasure many times stopping it and did so with no demand for payment or no thought of any form of returning favors. Actually all I got out of it was keeping myself in practice and the simple pleasure of showing such asshats what it felt like to be a victim of a more powerful person. It all started out with me defending my younger twin brothers that had a speech impediment and just mushroomed from there. --Tyr

[fj1200]

Ahhhh, I find it quite interesting that you do not know they are in most cases same thing.

Actually I do know that they are not the same thing because words have particular definitions.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Actually I do know that they are not the same thing because words have particular definitions.



Sometimes they have the same meanings. Look up synonyms.. happy=joyful=elated..
Entities such as tyrants are would be thugs that have actually made it.. in short successful would be thugs if you will.

Now stop trying to -" meaning of is " me to death like Slick Willie would attempt. As it should entertain neither of us IMHO and certainly adds little to nothing of substance to the thread .. .-Tyr

[fj1200]

Now stop trying to -" meaning of is " me to death...

Stop trying to spin away a ridiculous answer. Nevertheless do you really think Jafar cared about Jimmy swiping your Tonka truck or do you think he sees 'tyrants' as those subjugating an entire country or population of people against their will?

[Drummond]

Actually I do know that they are not the same thing because words have particular definitions.

So they do, FJ.

Here's a tip: try checking out the definition of 'Thatcherism'. We've established that you have much to learn, still, about what it means in total. You've grasped snippets of it .. but you definitely need to learn more.

-- Best of luck ! :rolleyes:

[fj1200]

... 'Thatcherism'...

I see you've admitted defeat already. Now I can take your posts even less seriously than before.

[jafar00]

Stop trying to spin away a ridiculous answer. Nevertheless do you really think Jafar cared about Jimmy swiping your Tonka truck or do you think he sees 'tyrants' as those subjugating an entire country or population of people against their will?

This. Tyrants are world leaders doing evil. Thanks fj200.

Now, how many world leaders have you beaten up Tyr? :)

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Stop trying to spin away a ridiculous answer. Nevertheless do you really think Jafar cared about Jimmy swiping your Tonka truck or do you think he sees 'tyrants' as those subjugating an entire country or population of people against their will?

I have no concern about what Jafar thinks on the subject of my life and things Ive done.

I made my point its you spinning like a top. :laugh:
That you claim to see no similarity between thug and dictator speaks volumes.
Name a dictator that was not a thug....:laugh: --Tyr

[fj1200]

I have no concern about what Jafar thinks on the subject of my life and things Ive done.

I made my point its you spinning like a top. :laugh:
That you claim to see no similarity between thug and dictator speaks volumes.
Name a dictator that was not a thug....:laugh: --Tyr

Um, no. Your words:


However context is everything...

Jafar set the context.


You seem to have a history of supporting tyrants don't you? Assad, Israel, Qadhafi...


I have a real life history of beating the hell out of would be tyrants.. Does that count?? :laugh:-Tyr

If you had no concern about what he thinks then you wouldn't have taken the opportunity to brag.

Besides, one can be a tyrant and one can be a thug but being one doesn't mean that you are also the other. Words mean things.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

. If you had no concern about what he thinks then you wouldn't have taken the opportunity to brag.

Besides, one can be a tyrant and one can be a thug but being one doesn't mean that you are also the other. Words mean things.

Not bragging if and when its true and it was true. .
And when asked to list them I chose not to list("brag in detail") simply because it would be viewed as bragging by those that feel insecure from having always had lesser ABILITIES.
When have I ever gave a blow for blow accounting of any of my fights!??
Answer is never if memory serves me well.
I could do that but if I did and gave accounts of them all the sheer numbers alone would be viewed as bragging.
I chose not to avail myself of that opportunity -a thing no real bragger would ever pass up.
I MENTION THINGS ABOUT MY LIFE THAT ARE TRUE.
I'll not deny the truth of my life, my wild young days and my eager embrace of violence as a younger man out of fear that some fool will accuse me of bragging or lying.
Not that anybody here will ever see them but I have several severe scars to prove the really bad fights. And none of those scars came from me facing just a single opponent.. Fact--Tyr

[fj1200]

Not bragging if...

Cool story bro. Has nothing to do with tyrants though.