Pregnant Pakistani woman stoned to death by family

[jimnyc]

And no, not hate sites, just saw this pop up while going through Yahoo news. I know it's Pakistan, and almost expected of some of the savages there, but it shows that things like this are still happening in many places throughout the world. And how does one kill their own family member, and one who is about to bring a child into this world?

LAHORE, Pakistan (AP) — A pregnant woman was stoned to death Tuesday by her own family outside a courthouse in the Pakistani city of Lahore for marrying the man she loved.

The woman was killed while on her way to court to contest an abduction case her family had filed against her husband. Her father was promptly arrested on murder charges, police investigator Rana Mujahid said, adding that police were working to apprehend all those who participated in this "heinous crime."

Arranged marriages are the norm among conservative Pakistanis, and hundreds of women are murdered every year in so-called honor killings carried out by husbands or relatives as a punishment for alleged adultery or other illicit sexual behavior.

Stonings in public settings, however, are extremely rare. Tuesday's attack took place in front of a crowd of onlookers in broad daylight. The courthouse is located on a main downtown thoroughfare.

A police officer, Naseem Butt, identified the slain woman as Farzana Parveen, 25, and said she had married Mohammad Iqbal, 45, against her family's wishes after being engaged to him for years.

Her father, Mohammad Azeem, had filed an abduction case against Iqbal, which the couple was contesting, said her lawyer, Mustafa Kharal. He said she was three months pregnant.

Nearly 20 members of Parveen's extended family, including her father and brothers, had waited outside the building that houses the high court of Lahore. As the couple walked up to the main gate, the relatives fired shots in the air and tried to snatch her from Iqbal, her lawyer said.

When she resisted, her father, brothers and other relatives started beating her, eventually pelting her with bricks from a nearby construction site, according to Mujahid and Iqbal, the slain woman's husband.

http://news.yahoo.com/pregnant-pakistani-woman-stoned-death-family-163143284.html

[aboutime]

Hey, jafar. Would you like to explain how that "Religion of Peace" works with this story?

Or, do you have another DEFENSIVE Propaganda, Denial story to share with us?

[jafar00]

Hey, jafar. Would you like to explain how that "Religion of Peace" works with this story?

Or, do you have another DEFENSIVE Propaganda, Denial story to share with us?

Would you like to explain how that "Religion of Peace" is even relevant?

[NightTrain]

Would you like to explain how that "Religion of Peace" is even relevant?

Why, it should be clear.

You've boldly stated dozens of times right here on this very forum that islam is peaceful and muslims don't do this sort of thing. But those were muslims that just killed that defenseless woman.

Isn't that contrary to what you'd like us to believe?

[aboutime]

Would you like to explain how that "Religion of Peace" is even relevant?


I asked YOU first! You do call it the Religion of Peace. Don't you?

[jafar00]

Why, it should be clear.

You've boldly stated dozens of times right here on this very forum that islam is peaceful and muslims don't do this sort of thing. But those were muslims that just killed that defenseless woman.

Isn't that contrary to what you'd like us to believe?

You didn't answer the question. How is Islam relevant to this.

What they did is illegal in Islam too. It is murder. And there have been arrests. Their religion is and should be irrelevant.

On the same side of the coin, why isn't the religion moved front and centre when Hindus do it http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1991195,00.html or when Christians do it http://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/jun/23/israel etc...

Yet, if the perpetrators happen to be Muslims, you are all over it saying Islam is evil (when Islam actually condemns the action) and religion takes centre stage. It's hypocritical.

[NightTrain]

You didn't answer the question. How is Islam relevant to this.

What they did is illegal in Islam too. It is murder. And there have been arrests. Their religion is and should be irrelevant.


The common denominator here is that the animals committing these atrocities are muslim.

When asked why they do such things, they will begin by heaping praise upon allah and your prophet, and saying it was done in accordance with islamic law.

Seems pretty simple to me.

[jafar00]

I asked YOU first! You do call it the Religion of Peace. Don't you?

You mentioned it first.

Regardless, here is some of what the Qur'aan says about murder.

For that cause We decreed for the Children of Israel that whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind. (5:32)

Whoso slayeth a believer of set purpose, his reward is hell for ever. Allah is wroth against him and He hath cursed him and prepared for him an awful doom. (4:93)

And those who cry not unto any other god along with Allah, nor take the life which Allah hath forbidden save in (course of) justice, nor commit adultery - and whoso doeth this shall pay the penalty; The doom will be doubled for him on the Day of Resurrection, and he will abide therein disdained for ever; (25:68-69)

Your turn to show if you can that Islam in any way condones murder.

[jafar00]

The common denominator here is that the animals committing these atrocities are muslim.

When asked why they do such things, they will begin by heaping praise upon allah and your prophet, and saying it was done in accordance with islamic law.

Seems pretty simple to me.

Maybe they will say it but they will be wrong. Nobody can claim murder is sanctioned by Islamic or any other law.

[NightTrain]

Maybe they will say it but they will be wrong. Nobody can claim murder is sanctioned by Islamic or any other law.


Strangely enough, Jafar, all those muslims committing atrocities daily disagree with you.

Weird, huh?

Actions speak louder than words. You tell us that they're wrong; they still gleefully murder away and say it's sanctioned by islamic law.

Why do millions of muslims think that they're right and you're wrong?

[jafar00]

Strangely enough, Jafar, all those muslims committing atrocities daily disagree with you.

Weird, huh?

Actions speak louder than words. You tell us that they're wrong; they still gleefully murder away and say it's sanctioned by islamic law.

Why do millions of muslims think that they're right and you're wrong?

Bad people do bad things.

Now show me why you believe that Islam condones this action, or shut up about it.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Why, it should be clear.

You've boldly stated dozens of times right here on this very forum that islam is peaceful and muslims don't do this sort of thing. But those were muslims that just killed that defenseless woman.

Isn't that contrary to what you'd like us to believe?
Notice they killed HER but not the man... that's keeping in the Muslim way--where the woman gets punished but not the man. --TYR

[NightTrain]

Bad people do bad things.

Now show me why you believe that Islam condones this action, or shut up about it.


Because they're all muslims.

Rather arrogant of you to think that you've got the right idea when we can look all over the world and see what millions of your brethren are doing. They all proudly proclaim that they're doing good muslim things.

How is it that you've got it right and all of them got it wrong?

[aboutime]

More propaganda...quotes from the brainwashed, used as more excuses to distort, twist, and pretend the JAFAR way.

If it wasn't so sickening...it might be funny.

[jimnyc]

Maybe they will say it but they will be wrong. Nobody can claim murder is sanctioned by Islamic or any other law.

I agree that it doesn't appear to be in the Quran. But the FACT of the matter is that this stuff that happens so often, is being done by people who are Muslims and many getting away with it. In this case, the father gets arrested, and the family forgives him and he walks free. They know this. And I guarantee you that in MANY areas that have what they say is Sharia law, and these are Muslim folks - and people charged with apostasy are still sentenced to death.

I understand your desire to claim nothing is "Islamic", and I understand that when speaking literally. And you disregard much of others as "not Muslims" as a Muslim wouldn't believe or do what they did. But at the end of the day, there are still endless people calling themselves Muslim and killing based on Sharia law or what they 'claim' to be religious texts. EVEN IF you claim that 100% of this is non-Islamic and not a single person is a true Muslim that commit these heinous acts - there is STILL an issue then within Islam, where religious nuts are running around and infecting the Muslim world. I see endless denials throughout the Muslim world, and from yourself - but I rarely, if ever, see these areas or the rest of the Muslim community standing in to put an end to things. These are entire countries that are condoning these things. And if not entire countries, then why isn't the power side, those in charge, stepping in to put a stop to things and making change?

[gabosaurus]

I don't recall reading where the family depicted in the story is Muslim. Honor killing are also prevalent in Hindu culture, particularly in India and Pakistan. There are also honor killings in parts of Africa. It even happens here in the U.S.
We won't even go into areas of Central and South America where women can be killed simply by disobeying their parents or husbands.
I suppose these killings are OK with you people as long as they aren't done by Muslims.

[jimnyc]

I don't recall reading where the family depicted in the story is Muslim. Honor killing are also prevalent in Hindu culture, particularly in India and Pakistan. There are also honor killings in parts of Africa. It even happens here in the U.S.
We won't even go into areas of Central and South America where women can be killed simply by disobeying their parents or husbands.
I suppose these killings are OK with you people as long as they aren't done by Muslims.

It was a Muslim family. I can cite other articles if you care?

[NightTrain]

I don't recall reading where the family depicted in the story is Muslim. Honor killing are also prevalent in Hindu culture, particularly in India and Pakistan. There are also honor killings in parts of Africa. It even happens here in the U.S.
We won't even go into areas of Central and South America where women can be killed simply by disobeying their parents or husbands.
I suppose these killings are OK with you people as long as they aren't done by Muslims.


I'd be happy to discuss with you the other killings.

Why don't you start a new thread about one of them and we'll see if we can get to the bottom of it!

In the meantime, this particular thread is about that pregnant Pakistani woman who was brutally murdered by her peace-loving muslim family and a mob in front of a courthouse.

[jafar00]

I agree that it doesn't appear to be in the Quran. But the FACT of the matter is that this stuff that happens so often, is being done by people who are Muslims and many getting away with it.

People who are Christians murder people.
People who are Hindus murder people.
People who are Jews murder people.
People who are Buddhists murder people.

Why do you single out Muslims who murder people and blame the religion despite acknowledging that Islam doesn't support it? It's not logical. You must admit it.

[jimnyc]

People who are Christians murder people.
People who are Hindus murder people.
People who are Jews murder people.
People who are Buddhists murder people.

Why do you single out Muslims who murder people and blame the religion despite acknowledging that Islam doesn't support it? It's not logical. You must admit it.

Because the out of control things we talk about are by Muslims, not others. The deaths for apostasy, adultery and blasphemy are only out of control within Islam. Why are there so many misguided Muslims that think they are killing for their faith, and honor and other retarded things?

And again, if not religious, don't you think it's a bit odd that the overwhelming majority of sick people killing for such things just happen to be in regions inundated by Muslims and the Islamic faith?

The only thing illogical is to deny SO MUCH death and destruction and abuse within Muslim borders, and simply shrug because it isn't in the Quran.

[Jeff]

People who are Christians murder people.
People who are Hindus murder people.
People who are Jews murder people.
People who are Buddhists murder people.

Why do you single out Muslims who murder people and blame the religion despite acknowledging that Islam doesn't support it? It's not logical. You must admit it.

No doubt there are murdering scum in all walks of life, but just the fact that you had noticed it makes me wonder why you are not up in arms with those that kill in the name of Allah, yes there are sick people in all walks of life but ya can't pick up a paper ( on any given day ) without seeing another atrocity committed by someone in the name of Allah, seems if someone is so educated on all the different murdering scum they would surely see what these animals do daily. :rolleyes:

[Drummond]

People who are Christians murder people.
People who are Hindus murder people.
People who are Jews murder people.
People who are Buddhists murder people.

Why do you single out Muslims who murder people and blame the religion despite acknowledging that Islam doesn't support it? It's not logical. You must admit it.

DOESN'T Islam support such savagery ?

I'm aware that each of those religious groupings you mention has murderers within it, Jafar. What I'm certainly NOT aware of is any comparable prevalence between any of those non-Muslim religions.

It's high time you faced something of the truth .. be it from a long-running thread on this very forum, which you visit very sparingly indeed .. to, for example, THIS ...

http://iranaware.com/2012/04/30/honor-killing-is-absolutely-islamic/


by Syed Kamran Mirza

Honor killings, which occur with shocking regularity in certain parts of the Middle East and South Asia, target women whose actions – actual or suspected – violate the honor of their family, an honor which is thought to depend on the sexual purity of its female members. Victims are always being killed/slaughtered mercilessly by her own family members. Honor killing is a manifestation of global phenomenon in general and Muslim nations in particular. Since this terrible inhumane practice does exists only among the Muslims of the world—very often civilized people do blame Islam as the precursor of this dreadful act. Most others do not agree with this notion at all; and they try to put the blame on the tribal/cultural practice, and do not consider Islam is anyway responsible for it. In this essay I shall analyze the real issues, cause and origin, and pattern of this heinous act amongst the Muslims of the world to postulate if there is any link, or incitements that originates from the very core of Islam.

What is honor killing?

Honor killing is the bone chilling horrific cruelty committed by the family members—father, mother, brothers, brother-in-laws, even in some cases own sisters also. In this terrible episode the victim is always the daughter/sister or other blood related young women who get killed. Perpetrators are always the family members stated above. Family honor is one of the core values of Arab society. Anything from speaking with an unrelated man, to rumored pre-marital loss of virginity, to an extra-marital affair, refuses forced marriages; marry according to their will; or even women and girls who have been raped—can stain or destroy the family honor. Therefore, family members (parents, brothers, or sisters) kill the victim in order to remove the stain or maintain, and protect the honor of the family. Killers are given light sentences, sometimes with little or no jail time at all. The killers mainly defend their act of murder by referring to the Koran and Islam. Family guardian will say that they are merely following the directives set down in their Islamic ethical beliefs.

These barbaric killings occur only to save the honor of the family, and not for any animosity or for wealth or gold. In 100% of cases—the killers have no animosity, rather they love the girl as their own daughter or sister, but they kill the girl anyway upon their ethical compulsion to save their family honor, or to erase family stigmas. The victims cry, beg for their life but the family members become merciless (out of their ethical prejudices and also religious burden of fear) and kill the victim. After killing family members usually mourn and cry for the victim (usually loving daughter or sister) but feel solace that they have done the right thing to save their family honor.

And this kind of cruel killings to save family honor had happened, still happening, and will remain to happen—only to a Muslim family. Honor killings happen only to some designated Muslim nations such as Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria, Yemen, Lebanon, Egypt, Sudan, the Gaza strip and the West Bank (Palestine), Jordan, Pakistan, Indonesia, Malaysia, Nigeria, Somalia, Turkey, Iran and some other south and central Asian countries. Bangladesh though a Muslim majority country—regular pattern of honor killings never happened as of today. But it is not unknown or impossible to record some stray incidences in Bangladeshi rural Muslim family (only) in which girl was poisoned by family members, or asked to commit suicide after being impregnated by unwed sexual intercourse. However, this same kind of case history was never heard, or recorded in the non-Muslim family of Bangladesh.

Every two weeks a young woman is killed in Jordan alone in the name of family honour.

Most Muslim apologists and also some gullible westerners want to argue that the ‘so called “honor killing” is not Islamic and it’s a tribal/cultural vice.’ This statement is utterly untrue and only a wish full covers up. It’s true that in pre-Islamic Arab culture this heinous honor killing of women did exist; likewise, many other uncivilized practices like stoning, flogging, beheading, slavery etc also existed in the pre-Islamic Arab society. But Islam did incorporate entirely most of these inhumane/uncivilized practices of pagan society, which they now call them Allah’s laws.

Had it been the tribal/cultural practice, ‘honor killing’ would exist amongst the Arabs only. But honor killing does happen amongst the non-Arab Muslims also. Also Arabs belonged to all religions (Muslims, Christians, Jews, Bhai etc.) would practice honor killing with equal prevalence. Fact of the matter is—no Arab Christians, Jews or Bahai etc do practice this uncivilized act at all. Only Arab Muslims do practice this heinous act with a regular pattern.

Dictums of Quran and Hadiths which may dictate/incite honor killing:

Quran- 4:15 “If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four (reliable) witness from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them. Or God ordain for them some (other) way.”

Quran-24:2 “The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication—flog each of them with hundred stripes: Let no compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by God, if ye believe in God and the last day.”

Quran-17:32 “ Nor come nigh to adultery: for it is a shameful (deed) and an evil, opening the road (to other evils).

Quran-33:33 “stay quietly in your houses, and make not a dazzling display.”

Now some sahih hadiths:

Bukhari: Volume 7, Book 63, Number 196:

Narrated Abu Huraira: A man from Bani Aslam came to Allah’s Apostle while he was in the mosque and called (the Prophet ) saying, “O Allah’s Apostle! I have committed illegal sexual intercourse.” On that the Prophet turned his face from him to the other side, whereupon the man moved to the side towards which the Prophet had turned his face, and said, “O Allah’s Apostle! I have committed illegal sexual intercourse.” The Prophet turned his face (from him) to the other side whereupon the man moved to the side towards which the Prophet had turned his face, and repeated his statement. The Prophet turned his face (from him) to the other side again. The man moved again (and repeated his statement) for the fourth time. So when the man had given witness four times against himself, the Prophet called him and said, “Are you insane?” He replied, “No.” The Prophet then said (to his companions), “Go and stone him to death.” The man was a married one. Jabir bin ‘Abdullah Al-Ansari said: I was one of those who stoned him. We stoned him at the Musalla (‘Id praying place) in Medina. When the stones hit him with their sharp edges, he fled, but we caught him at Al-Harra and stoned him till he died.
(See also Bukhari: Volume 7, Book 63, Number 195.)

Sahi Bukhari: 8:6814:
Narrated Jabir bin Abdullah al-Ansari: “A man from the tribe of Bani Aslam came to Allah’s Messenger [Muhammad] and informed him that he had committed illegal sexual intercourse; and he bore witness four times against himself. Allah’s Messenger ordered him to be stoned to death as he was a married person.”

Sahi Muslim No. 4206:
“A woman came to the prophet and asked for purification by seeking punishment. He told her to go away and seek God’s forgiveness. She persisted four times and admitted she was pregnant. He told her to wait until she had given birth. Then he said that the Muslim community should wait until she had weaned her child. When the day arrived for the child to take solid food, Muhammad handed the child over to the community. And when he had given command over her and she was put in a hole up to her breast, he ordered the people to stone her. Khalid b. al-Walid came forward with a stone which he threw at her head, and when the blood spurted on her face he cursed her.”

Sahih Al-Bukhari Vol 2. pg 1009; and Sahih Muslim Vol 2. pg 65:
Hadhrat Abdullah ibne Abbaas (Radiallahu Anhu) narrates the lecture that Hadhrat Umar (Radiallaahu Anhu) delivered whilst sitting on the pulpit of Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wa Sallam). Hadhrat Umar (Radiallahu Anhu) said, “Verily, Allah sent Muhammad (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) with the truth, and revealed the Quran upon him. The verse regarding the stoning of the adulterer/ess was from amongst the verse revealed (in the Quraan). We read it, secured it and understood it. Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) stoned and we stoned after him. I fear that with the passage of time a person might say, ‘We do not find mention of stoning in the Book of Allah and thereby go astray by leaving out an obligation revealed by Allah. Verily, the stoning of a adulterer/ress is found in the Quraan and is the truth, if the witnesses are met or there is a pregnancy or confession.”

Jafar, the link I've provided gives altogether more evidence than JUST the above !! But - regardless - the case is surely made.

I shall now wait for your sanitising reply, one denying the above evidence in some shape or form ... because you're never going to admit the truth about Islam.

Prove me wrong on that if you can. I challenge you ...

[NightTrain]

Nice work, Detective.

It would appear that there is indeed basis in islam for stoning people to death.

Since muhammad had that man stoned to death, then surely this is what the muslims base their actions on. Odd that it doesn't spell it out in the Quran and yet muhammad ordered that death penalty anyway. Did he make up the rules as he went along? Who gave him authority to give a death sentence to an event that wasn't that harsh in the Quran?

And this must be where the 'insanity' comes into play with determining if he's eligible for the death penalty, when muhammad asked him straight out if he was insane before sentencing him to death by stoning.

[Drummond]

Nice work, Detective.

It would appear that there is indeed basis in islam for stoning people to death.

Since muhammad had that man stoned to death, then surely this is what the muslims base their actions on. Odd that it doesn't spell it out in the Quran and yet muhammad ordered that death penalty anyway. Did he make up the rules as he went along? Who gave him authority to give a death sentence to an event that wasn't that harsh in the Quran?

And this must be where the 'insanity' comes into play with determining if he's eligible for the death penalty, when muhammad asked him straight out if he was insane before sentencing him to death by stoning.

Stonings go back to the very beginning of Islam. That they continue to this day surely shows how entrenched a 'practice' (for want of a better word !) this is amongst Muslims.

I posted this following link quite recently. It may have a lighthearted tone to it, but I'm sure that it mirrors the truth of the matter ... this from an unofficially run British Army website, a sort of spoof 'Wikipedia' they run. It claims within it that, YES, Mohammad did make up his rules as he went along ...

http://www.arrse.co.uk/wiki/Koran


Rather like a bad Quentin Tarantino film, the Koran is arranged in no meaningful order. It contains 114 Suras, the first of which is, logically enough, called "The Opening". The other 113 are ranged not in any meaningful chronological order, in which they have to be interpreted, but in decreasing order of length.

But why is the order so important? Well, Mohammed, I mean God, liked to change his mind. These changes of mind, properly called " abrogations", conveniently happened whenever Mohammed was having problems with things he, I mean God, had previously decreed. For instance, Mohammed, I mean God, decreed that believers could have four wives. But our Mo wanted a few more, so there is a sudden revelation that Mohammed can have more, indeed as many as he liked. But of course this revelation explicitly only provides Mohammed with the exception, and not the rest of the believers.

Alcohol is another case in point - 16:67 accepts it, then 4:43 prohibits turning up to worship drunk, and finally 5:90 prohibits it. Perhaps the most relevant abrogation today relates to attitudes towards nonbelievers (including the "people of the book") - the so-called Verse of the Sword, 9:5, aggregates and therefore cancels out no fewer than 124 more peaceful and tolerant verses, including the famous "there is no compulsion in religion" (which appears chronologically earlier). The vast majority of Islamic scholars agree that Sura 9 was chronologically the last to be "revealed", and - shock horror - an awful lot of the really nasty stuff appears in this sura and cancels out anything it contradicts!

This surely also shows why Jafar, when he supposedly cites Quranic sources 'proving' peaceful intent from Islam, may well in fact be being thoroughly disingenuous. Even if Jafar can locate such material for his own purposes, do later verses supersede them ?

As I understand it, Mohammed had absolute authority. If he wanted to change his mind from one week to the next, then the Quran, therefore Islam itself, had to accommodate whatever he felt like decreeing at the time.

[aboutime]

jafar makes lists to call out other religious groups.

Not once has jafar shown this list: http://icansayit.com/images/tencommands.jpg

[jafar00]

Because the out of control things we talk about are by Muslims, not others. The deaths for apostasy, adultery and blasphemy are only out of control within Islam. Why are there so many misguided Muslims that think they are killing for their faith, and honor and other retarded things?

But there are others who a not Muslims who are also out of control, yet under reported or reported differently. That is my point.


DOESN'T Islam support such savagery ?

No. Most certainly not!


I'm aware that each of those religious groupings you mention has murderers within it, Jafar. What I'm certainly NOT aware of is any comparable prevalence between any of those non-Muslim religions.

It's high time you faced something of the truth .. be it from a long-running thread on this very forum, which you visit very sparingly indeed .. to, for example, THIS ...

http://iranaware.com/2012/04/30/honor-killing-is-absolutely-islamic/

The article says


no Arab Christians, Jews or Bahai etc do practice this uncivilized act at all. Only Arab Muslims do practice this heinous act with a regular pattern.

Nope. First lie for the article...

Three Coptic brothers accused of killing sister, her husband and child for converting to Islam (http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/1/64/10609/Egypt/Politics-/Three-Coptic-brothers-accused-of-killing-sister,-h.aspx)


Often times, honor killings are performed by persons of Christian or Jewish faiths.
http://www2.webster.edu/~woolflm/honorkillings.html

Then article then goes on trying to provide evidence of the stoning punishment FOR ADULTERY, not because your family just doesn't like your husband as in the OP story. It is interesting to not in the Hadiths you so joyfully bolded that the Prophet (saw) tried his best to ignore the confessions of the adulterous people until they insisted on being punished which shows up the fact that it is almost impossible to get a conviction for adultery with enough evidence to get to the stoning verdict in the first place.

Yes, stoning for adultery does exist in Islamic law, but as I pointed out AT LENGTH in previous discussions on the subject, four witnesses must witness the actual act of penetration up close as if they were seeing a live sex show in close up in order for the stoning verdict to be handed down. It is the most unlikely of punishments to be handed out, at least if the word of Islamic law is followed.

Your post is a good attempt at deflecting the argument but your sources are flawed. You are reading a bunch of nonsense from people who's agenda is to paint Islam in the worst light. You are brainwashing yourself.


Stonings go back to the very beginning of Islam. That they continue to this day surely shows how entrenched a 'practice' (for want of a better word !) this is amongst Muslims.

Actually, stonings go way back before Islam.

Leviticus 24:16 for example.

24:16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him

That was Jewish law and just for blasphemy. :p


I posted this following link quite recently. It may have a lighthearted tone to it, but I'm sure that it mirrors the truth of the matter ... this from an unofficially run British Army website, a sort of spoof 'Wikipedia' they run. It claims within it that, YES, Mohammad did make up his rules as he went along ...

http://www.arrse.co.uk/wiki/Koran

Really. Would you like to post some stuff from the Onion in addition to back you up?


The ARRSEPedia is a Wiki (http://www.arrse.co.uk/wiki/Wiki), just like wikipedia, but for the British Army / ARRSE and not quite 100% serious.

If the site doesn't even take themselves seriously, why do you? :laugh2:


jafar makes lists to call out other religious groups.

Not once has jafar shown this list: http://icansayit.com/images/tencommands.jpg

Since when do I make lists to call out other religious groups and why would I list the 10 commandments? I'm not Christian.

[jimnyc]

But there are others who a not Muslims who are also out of control, yet under reported or reported differently. That is my point.

Out of controlling in performing & allowing death for apostasy, honor killings, adultery, blasphemy... Yes, every now and again this happens by other people, but by far and large its Muslim folks. That's a FACT. It's also a FACT that you avoided the rest of my questions and snipped them. Just as you avoided my reply to you in the other thread about Hamas, their charter and Islam indirectly supporting terrorism. I'd bail from answering as well if I were cornered so spectacularly.

Gee, let's call out the bad Jews, but give various levels of support to the folks who swear there will never be negotiations, never be peace AND that the best blood is jew blood. Many support those people, many directly, and many like yourself do indirectly. And why? Because most Muslims are taught from a VERY young age that Jews are evil. Jew hating terrorists are applauded, donated to, held in high esteem and supported in many, many ways - by Islam and it's people from around the world.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

But there are others who a not Muslims who are also out of control, yet under reported or reported differently. That is my point.

So your defense now is --others do it too!!!!

That guy is a child molester, so you reply--well others do it too!
That guy is a rapist , so you reply--well others do it too!
That guy is a murderer, so you reply--well others do it too!

Yet replace the word "guy" with the word "Muslim" and you defend either by saying------ not real Muslim or others do it too!!!

My God, how does that relate to your claims of the superiority
of Islam!!????
When hundreds of millions
Muslims believe in and do go along with the murders, bombings, rapes , torture, hangings , stonings, acid attacks and even child molestation engaged in by so many Muslims in so many countries!!!!! --Tyr

[aboutime]

So your defense now is --others do it too!!!!

That guy is a child molester, so you reply--well others do it too!
That guy is a rapist , so you reply--well others do it too!
That guy is a murderer, so you reply--well others do it too!

Yet replace the word "guy" with the word "Muslim" and you defend either by saying------ not real Muslim or others do it too!!!

My God, how does that relate to your claims of the superiority
of Islam!!????
When hundreds of millions
Muslims believe in and do go along with the murders, bombings, rapes , torture, hangings , stonings, acid attacks and even child molestation engaged in by so many Muslims in so many countries!!!!! --Tyr


Tyr. Propagandists often forget WHICH lies they wanted everyone to believe first.
So, they get confused, and accuse others of their exact tactics.
But, none of them work.

[jafar00]

So your defense now is --others do it too!!!!


I'm not defending it at all. I am just pointing out the hypocrisy in reporting.

[aboutime]

I'm not defending it at all. I am just pointing out the hypocrisy in reporting.
Funny stuff jafar. The very fact YOU DENY IT...ACTUALLY IS defending it.

Proving how convinced you are that the lies you have been fed for so long are..TRUE????