View Full Version : When I say... "I am a Christian"
jimnyc
06-01-2014, 09:09 AM
Jeff posted this on Facebook and I stole it. I thought it fitting with her recent passing...
** Update - I looked further and it turns out that Maya Angelou didn't write this, who I was originally going to tribute this to. It's Carol Wimmer, and the lyrics are even a bit different.
When I say, “I am a Christian”
I’m not shouting, “I’ve been saved!”
I’m whispering, “I get lost sometimes
That’s why I chose this way”
When I say, “I am a Christian”
I don’t speak with human pride
I’m confessing that I stumble -
needing God to be my guide
When I say, “I am a Christian”
I’m not trying to be strong
I’m professing that I’m weak
and pray for strength to carry on
When I say, “I am a Christian”
I’m not bragging of success
I’m admitting that I’ve failed
and cannot ever pay the debt
When I say, “I am a Christian”
I don’t think I know it all
I submit to my confusion
asking humbly to be taught
When I say, “I am a Christian”
I’m not claiming to be perfect
My flaws are far too visible
but God believes I’m worth it
When I say, “I am a Christian”
I still feel the sting of pain
I have my share of heartache
which is why I seek God’s name
When I say, “I am a Christian”
I do not wish to judge
I have no authority
I only know I’m loved
Thief !!!!
Seriously I am glad you did, I really like it.
jimnyc
06-01-2014, 09:20 AM
Thief !!!!
Seriously I am glad you did, I really like it.
Just be prepared if any of your friends call you out, as Ms. Angelou didn't write it. It would be fitting this week if she had though! The original above is great regardless of who wrote it.
Just be prepared if any of your friends call you out, as Ms. Angelou didn't write it. It would be fitting this week if she had though! The original above is great regardless of who wrote it.
Honestly I posted it for the words not so much a tribute to anyone, but yes I have been warned :laugh:
jimnyc
06-01-2014, 09:24 AM
Honestly I posted it for the words not so much a tribute to anyone, but yes I have been warned :laugh:
Facebook can be a brutal place if you post something wrong! Nothing like the best of friends and family to tell you what a loser you are when you make a mistake! LOL :lol:
Facebook can be a brutal place if you post something wrong! Nothing like the best of friends and family to tell you what a loser you are when you make a mistake! LOL :lol:
No mistake was made, I don't care LOL I liked the poem and didn't care about anything else, LOL
Besides if people want to attack then they probably are the type that didn't stop and read it anyway.
I’'m not shouting, “I’'ve been saved!” I’m whispering, “I get lost sometimes
Shoulda come downtown with me the other day, they were shouting it through megaphones while i was trying to enjoy my lunch >,>
#1 the other will be around shortly :laugh:
jimnyc
06-01-2014, 10:05 AM
Shoulda come downtown with me the other day, they were shouting it through megaphones while i was trying to enjoy my lunch >,>
Yeah, I disagree with those who go around in public shouting down others with their beliefs. There's a time and a place to share with others. And I mean share, not shoving down someone's throat. Your average everyday Christian is more like what you see in this poem though. :)
aboutime
06-01-2014, 06:33 PM
Jim. Thanks for posting it.
The greatest thing I have learned over many years about saying "I am a Christian" is. I have no reason to apologize for being a Christian. I don't need to make excuses for being a Christian. And, I don't care if others HAVE NO FAITH, NOR BELIEVE AS I BELIEVE.
I am a Christian, and there's no person alive who can change that!
Because....I AM A CHRISTIAN.
Anyone who doesn't like it can simply EAT MY SHORTS. See. No abuse. No vulgar language. Just facts.
Yeah, I disagree with those who go around in public shouting down others with their beliefs. There's a time and a place to share with others. And I mean share, not shoving down someone's throat. Your average everyday Christian is more like what you see in this poem though. :)
Your average everyday christian thinks nothing of schools teaching 4, 5, 6 year olds etc all about their religion, getting them to memorise prayers and so on, which is much much worse than some moron in the street with a megaphone, and sadly much more common.
logroller
06-02-2014, 05:24 AM
Your average everyday christian thinks nothing of schools teaching 4, 5, 6 year olds etc all about their religion, getting them to memorise prayers and so on, which is much much worse than some moron in the street with a megaphone, and sadly much more common.
Worse how? I mean, the lesson of 'do unto other others as you would others do unto you' is rooted in Mosaic law but is nonetheless a humanist lesson. In fact, it's not even Christian per se; the fundamental Christian belief is that we're saved through faith, not by our actions; yet many (Christian or not) would say that the golden rule is a Christian belief.
I'm not advocating the teaching of the Lord's Prayer in schools, (ie, forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us) but it would be a valued lesson to teach 4,5,6 year-olds the concept of grace through forgiveness and treating others as we wish to be treated. Its quite humanistic in fact, so how is that worse???
Worse how? I mean, the lesson of 'do unto other others as you would others do unto you' is rooted in Mosaic law but is nonetheless a humanist lesson. In fact, it's not even Christian per se; the fundamental Christian belief is that we're saved through faith, not by our actions; yet many (Christian or not) would say that the golden rule is a Christian belief. I'm not advocating the teaching of the Lord's Prayer in schools, (ie, forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us) but it would be a valued lesson to teach 4,5,6 year-olds the concept of grace through forgiveness and treating others as we wish to be treated. Its quite humanistic in fact, so how is that worse???
Teach the humanist stuff all they please, teach forgiveness, honesty, and any other good lessons...just leave the whole god bit out of it and alls grand.
Teach the humanist stuff all they please, teach forgiveness, honesty, and any other good lessons...just leave the whole god bit out of it and alls grand.
Noir I am not sure what schools are like over there but over here they are taken God out of the schools completely, in many school districts having anything to do with Christianity will get you suspended quick.
Noir I am not sure what schools are like over there but over here they are taken God out of the schools completely, in many school districts having anything to do with Christianity will get you suspended quick.
A rare showing of reason in the states!
Over here (Northern Ireland, not the rest of the UK) parents chose to send their kids to Catholic or Protestant schools, daily prayers, days out to churches, compulsory christian education, the works >,>
jimnyc
06-02-2014, 07:13 AM
Your average everyday christian thinks nothing of schools teaching 4, 5, 6 year olds etc all about their religion, getting them to memorise prayers and so on, which is much much worse than some moron in the street with a megaphone, and sadly much more common.
That's a problem with your government. Most religious texts should be saved for Catholic schools, like we have here in the USA. And believe me, I htink we have a few more of the "average Christians" here than you do in your area. :)
jimnyc
06-02-2014, 07:15 AM
A rare showing of reason in the states!
Over here (Northern Ireland, not the rest of the UK) parents chose to send their kids to Catholic or Protestant schools, daily prayers, days out to churches, compulsory christian education, the works >,>
ALL states and almost ALL rules conform to what Jeff stated. Outside of religious schools themselves in which someone chooses to go to, religion in public schools is a rare thing, and when it does come up, it's a historical thing, generally.
logroller
06-02-2014, 10:26 AM
Teach the humanist stuff all they please, teach forgiveness, honesty, and any other good lessons...just leave the whole god bit out of it and alls grand.
Why: is it less grand with God?
Why: is it less grand with God?
Because the state should not be forcing religious teaching on to kids. Just teach the ethics.
NightTrain
06-02-2014, 11:04 AM
Because the state should not be forcing religious teaching on to kids. Just teach the ethics.
The State doesn't. The parents enroll the kids in those particular schools according to their beliefs.
And the parents have every right to decide what faith they want their children taught.
fj1200
06-02-2014, 11:09 AM
The State doesn't.
I think it's different across the pond based on noir's previous posts on the subject.
tailfins
06-02-2014, 11:29 AM
Teach the humanist stuff all they please, teach forgiveness, honesty, and any other good lessons...just leave the whole god bit out of it and alls grand.
I'm going to call BS on you, Noir. I made a decision many here don't like: To match leftists tit-for-tat. In spite of being a conservative, I have learned to be sleazy, uncouth, vile, etc. from lefties. They don't expect it when you throw it right back at 'em. They are dismayed when you give them a taste of their own medicine. The secret to dealing with lefties is to give them ample doses of their own medicine. While "Humanists" claim what you say above for PR purposes, what they do in practice is another kettle of fish.
NightTrain
06-02-2014, 11:35 AM
I think it's different across the pond based on noir's previous posts on the subject.
Interesting... that doesn't seem right and I would agree that the state does not have a right to choose what religion your kids are taught.
jimnyc
06-02-2014, 11:42 AM
Interesting... that doesn't seem right and I would agree that the state does not have a right to choose what religion your kids are taught.
Yeah, I think where Noir is at it's part of the public school system, which I disagree with. I don't know if the entire "UK" is like that or not.
Interesting... that doesn't seem right and I would agree that the state does not have a right to choose what religion your kids are taught.
Sadly Christianly held its clutch on Northern Ireland a little longer than most other nations, so we have to live with this tosh for the time being, at least until the generations above pass on.
Another gem is that our largest national party want being homosexual to be re-criminalised, fascinating no?
NightTrain
06-02-2014, 11:51 AM
Sadly Christianly held its clutch on Northern Ireland a little longer than most other nations, so we have to live with this tosh for the time being, at least until the generations above pass on.
Another gem is that our largest national party want being homosexual to be re-criminalised, fascinating no?
Well, that would explain why you have a bad taste in your mouth regarding religion, Noir.
I can't say as I blame you, I would have rebelled as well. I'm very surprised that the UK would implement something like this and continue to do so in this day and age.
jimnyc
06-02-2014, 11:53 AM
Sadly Christianly held its clutch on Northern Ireland a little longer than most other nations, so we have to live with this tosh for the time being, at least until the generations above pass on.
Another gem is that our largest national party want being homosexual to be re-criminalised, fascinating no?
Sounds like more the fault of the government than the religion. Only the government and the people can allow such to go forth.
fj1200
06-02-2014, 12:37 PM
Interesting... that doesn't seem right and I would agree that the state does not have a right to choose what religion your kids are taught.
I think they can be whatever religion they want. They get to choose between the Catholics and the Protestants. :poke:
NightTrain
06-02-2014, 12:59 PM
I think they can be whatever religion they want. They get to choose between the Catholics and the Protestants. :poke:
Oh.
Well, what's the problem, then, Noir? :slap:
jimnyc
06-02-2014, 01:12 PM
I think they can be whatever religion they want. They get to choose between the Catholics and the Protestants. :poke:
Oh.
Well, what's the problem, then, Noir? :slap:
Really, some act like they were forced to learn and/or be Muslims. :coffee:
Abbey Marie
06-02-2014, 01:56 PM
Because the state should not be forcing religious teaching on to kids. Just teach the ethics.
Well then, why teach ethics at all? Without a religious text/background to give us a basis for why we believe as we do, who is to say what is right for you is right for me?
tailfins
06-02-2014, 01:59 PM
Well then, why teach ethics at all? Without a religious text/background to give us a basis for why we believe as we do, who is to say what is right for you is right for me?
In Brazil, Gerson's Law is what gets handed down as ethics, but not amongst Evangelicals. If you're not going to teach faith in school, then why bother with ethics? For example, it's OK to cheat on a test, just NOT OK to get caught.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%A9rson%27s_law
In Brazilian (http://www.debatepolicy.com/wiki/Brazil) culture, Gérson's Law (Portuguese (http://www.debatepolicy.com/wiki/Portuguese_language): Lei de Gérson) is an adage (http://www.debatepolicy.com/wiki/Adage) in which those who "like to take advantage of everything" have no concern for ethics (http://www.debatepolicy.com/wiki/Ethics).
This expression came into use because of a TV commercial (http://www.debatepolicy.com/wiki/TV_commercial) from around 1970 for the cigarette (http://www.debatepolicy.com/wiki/Cigarette) brand Vila Rica (http://www.debatepolicy.com/wiki/Vila_Rica), played by Brazilian (http://www.debatepolicy.com/wiki/Brazil_national_football_team) footballer Gérson (http://www.debatepolicy.com/wiki/G%C3%A9rson). While he is a very well known football player (http://www.debatepolicy.com/wiki/Association_football) in Brazil and worldwide, Gérson was always a source for controversy. In the commercial, that particular cigarette brand was portrayed as being advantageous for being better and cheaper than other brands, and at the end of the commercial, Gérson said:
You like to take advantage in everything too, right?
—Gérson
Later, the player resented having his image connected to the ad, since all kinds of unethical behaviors were linked to his name with reference to the law.
gabosaurus
06-02-2014, 02:17 PM
Noir I am not sure what schools are like over there but over here they are taken God out of the schools completely, in many school districts having anything to do with Christianity will get you suspended quick.
They don't teach math and geography in Sunday School. So why should they teach religion in school?
In our schools, there are numerous religious groups. There are also people who don't believe in God. School are best leaving out religion and teaching education.
If religion is important to you, send your kids to a parochial school.
tailfins
06-02-2014, 02:26 PM
They don't teach math and geography in Sunday School. So why should they teach religion in school?
In our schools, there are numerous religious groups. There are also people who don't believe in God. School are best leaving out religion and teaching education.
If religion is important to you, send your kids to a parochial school.
While I despise most of the powers that be in my kids' school here in Rhode Island, the principal treats us a religious minority. We get to opt out of evolution and environmentalism (environmentalism is a form of Pagan Earth Worship). There are Muslim kids that have their exemptions, the Hindus theirs, etc. I would have never imagined Rhode Island as the place where the government schools were most accomodating to Christian Fundamentalism. And your idea of sending your kids to a parocial school is fine as long as the property tax payments made to the school are refunded. One shouldn't have to pay twice for education. The only problem is that my seventh grade son re-did his sixth grade work as a seventh grader because the school is so busy accommodating everybody. He said this school year was a complete waste with the only silver lining being making the honor roll with almost no studying.
However, if you're not going to teach faith in school, you may as go by Gerson's Law as stated in one of my posts above.
Noir I am not sure what schools are like over there but over here they are taken God out of the schools completely, in many school districts having anything to do with Christianity will get you suspended quick.
They don't teach math and geography in Sunday School. So why should they teach religion in school?
In our schools, there are numerous religious groups. There are also people who don't believe in God. School are best leaving out religion and teaching education.
If religion is important to you, send your kids to a parochial school.
OK along comes #2 ! :laugh:
At least #1 has a brain !! :rolleyes:
Gabby please show me how in the statement you supposedly are responding to I even sounded like a Christian let alone taken either side, I was simply explaining to Noir what goes on here.
Do you think maybe Noir never heard of private schools ?
As for sending your kid to parochial school I always thought that was what most did ? Silly me, we had quite a few of them in our area growing up, in fact we walked by the bus stops for 2 of those schools on the way to our one.
If ya want to sling sh** at least make sense.
tailfins
06-02-2014, 03:03 PM
Noir I am not sure what schools are like over there but over here they are taken God out of the schools completely, in many school districts having anything to do with Christianity will get you suspended quick.
Are you referring to student initiated Christian activity being punished? That's very illegal. Someone needs to defy that kind of rule and have Liberty Counsel or the Rutherford Institute sue if there's any kind of sanction.
Are you referring to student initiated Christian activity being punished? That's very illegal. Someone needs to defy that kind of rule and have Liberty Counsel or the Rutherford Institute sue if there's any kind of sanction.
I agree tf, but this happens daily, it is no different than gun control, the public schools are at war against Christianity and have been so for a while now.
tailfins
06-02-2014, 03:17 PM
I agree tf, but this happens daily, it is no different than gun control, the public schools are at war against Christianity and have been so for a while now.
It makes one wonder what we've become when the Chistian has to sue his way into the school. However, being both Christian and someone with Aspergers, I have become accustomed to suing my way into the mainstream of society. I have seen the alternative to suing one's way in and it ain't pretty.
Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
06-02-2014, 09:06 PM
Over here (Northern Ireland, not the rest of the UK) parents chose to send their kids to Catholic or Protestant schools, daily prayers, days out to churches, compulsory christian education, the works >,>
Man, how dare those parents actually have the audacity to think they have the right to choose what is best for their own kids!
I mean everybody knows that is best left to Statists that haven't a damn clue and no real concern for the kids!
Right NOIR!????-Tyr
fj1200
06-02-2014, 10:06 PM
Well then, why teach ethics at all? Without a religious text/background to give us a basis for why we believe as we do, who is to say what is right for you is right for me?
Pretty sure that right/wrong/ethics is not tied only to religion. It shouldn't take belief in God to understand that other individuals should be secure in their life, liberty, property.
logroller
06-03-2014, 12:09 AM
Because the state should not be forcing religious teaching on to kids. Just teach the ethics.
I feel the state shouldn't be forcing kids into public schools--period--but I agree that religious preference shouldn't be shown by the state.
Oh. Well, what's the problem, then, Noir? :slap:
Whats the problem? The kids are forced to learn Christianity, as fact.
The only 'choice' comes from whether their parents want them to be one type of christian or another.
Well then, why teach ethics at all? Without a religious text/background to give us a basis for why we believe as we do, who is to say what is right for you is right for me?
"Rape is bad."
"Rape is bad, because god exists."
Do you consider both of these statements valid, or only one?
Man, how dare those parents actually have the audacity to think they have the right to choose what is best for their own kids! I mean everybody knows that is best left to Statists that haven't a damn clue and no real concern for the kids! Right NOIR!????-Tyr
What if a parent decides whats 'best for their kid' is for them to go to a school that doesn't teach a religion as fact?
red state
06-14-2014, 08:32 AM
Man, how dare those parents actually have the audacity to think they have the right to choose what is best for their own kids!
I mean everybody knows that is best left to Statists that haven't a damn clue and no real concern for the kids!
Right NOIR!????-Tyr
SPOT ON TYR!!!! What we need to understand is that GOD is in OUR laws, goverment and founding. To get around this is to deny clarity and intellect. We all know that one needs a manual to properly build something and if if is built leaving parts out simply because one doesn't like the rule or method, the finished build could come out faulty, dangerous or even deadly. We have a guide book for life (at least here in the States as confirmed by our laws, gov. and founding) and you can't beat that guide book we call the BIBLE. After all, these foundations has provide the world with the BEST gov. that this ole nasty world has ever seen. Why, we even embrace those who disagree....how's that for the ultimate guide book. It certainly isn't the guide book the muSLUMs follow or the leftists. They both would prefer to stifle ALL (except their own personal OPINION of what is right or wrong).
Abbey Marie
06-14-2014, 10:50 AM
"Rape is bad."
"Rape is bad, because god exists."
Do you consider both of these statements valid, or only one?
Without a basis, such as, oh I don't know, perhaps "Love your neighbor as you love yourself"?, it depends on your particular "values", doesn't it? Perhaps mine say it is ok. Who are you to tell me I am wrong? It's just your opinion. Kinda like how liberals feel about abortion.
Without a basis, such as, oh I don't know, perhaps "Love your neighbor as you love yourself"?, it depends on your particular "values", doesn't it? Perhaps mine say it is ok. Who are you to tell me I am wrong? It's just your opinion. Kinda like how liberals feel about abortion.
Fine.
"Love your neighbour as you love yourself"
"Love your neighbour as you love yourself, because god exists"
Again - Do you see two valid statements, or only one?
Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
06-14-2014, 11:55 AM
What if a parent decides whats 'best for their kid' is for them to go to a school that doesn't teach a religion as fact?
Then the parent should find such a school to send them to. And fund it themselves. However Teaching religious doctrine in public schools is a far cry from just allowing Christians to function freely and speak freely in school about their faith.
Currently here the going agenda is to remove ever vestige of Christianity in our public schools and to do that by way of stopping Christian free speech and the free exercise thereof !!! Both are current NEA and Federal government policies and both are clearly Unconstitutional !!!-Tyr
Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
06-14-2014, 12:02 PM
SPOT ON TYR!!!! What we need to understand is that GOD is in OUR laws, goverment and founding. To get around this is to deny clarity and intellect. We all know that one needs a manual to properly build something and if if is built leaving parts out simply because one doesn't like the rule or method, the finished build could come out faulty, dangerous or even deadly. We have a guide book for life (at least here in the States as confirmed by our laws, gov. and founding) and you can't beat that guide book we call the BIBLE. After all, these foundations has provide the world with the BEST gov. that this ole nasty world has ever seen. Why, we even embrace those who disagree....how's that for the ultimate guide book. It certainly isn't the guide book the muSLUMs follow or the leftists. They both would prefer to stifle ALL (except their own personal OPINION of what is right or wrong).
Muslim/leftist guide books both teach conquering and murdering any opposition, neither teaches tolerance or appeasement in any form. Yet their supporters are the first to demand appeasement and tolerance for them!
Any support for either of them is truly insanity. That is UNLESS one is all for either being the totalitarian power here! Leftists are just another type of Nazi and so are the Muslims. Both have absolute and tyrannical power as their ultimate goal.--Tyr
Then the parent should find such a school to send them to. And fund it themselves. However Teaching religious doctrine in public schools is a far cry from just allowing Christians to function freely and speak freely in school about their faith.
Currently here the going agenda is to remove ever vestige of Christianity in our public schools and to do that by way of stopping Christian free speech and the free exercise thereof !!! Both are current NEA and Federal government policies and both are clearly Unconstitutional !!!-Tyr
Pay for private schooling? Avoiding christian teachings should be a privilege for the wealthy? I'd be inclined to disagree.
Tyr-Ziu Saxnot
06-14-2014, 12:14 PM
Pay for private schooling? Avoiding christian teachings should be a privilege for the wealthy? I'd be inclined to disagree.
Why? It is exactly what Christian parents now have to do if they want their children taught Christian principles at school. They now have to pay tuition at private Christian schools, three of my nieces and two of my nephews were educated and graduated from such schools.
Why not allow schools here to be like they were all along up to the 70's? For over 200 hundreds years it was just fine but now it's not!
ffing poppycock!!
To please all there must be private religious schools, private non-religious schools and government funded schools that allow a mixture of both because our society is a mixture of both.
Yet Fed government not forces the Christians out of the mix and that is completely unconstitutional!-Tyr
Why? It is exactly what Christian parents now have to do if they want their children taught Christian principles at school. They now have to pay tuition at private Christian schools, three of my nieces and two of my nephews were educated and graduated from such schools.
Why not allow schools here to be like they were all along up to the 70's? For over 200 hundreds years it was just fine but now it's not!
ffing poppycock!!
To please all there must be private religious schools, private non-religious schools and government funded schools that allow a mixture of both because our society is a mixture of both.
Yet Fed government not forces the Christians out of the mix and that is completely unconstitutional!-Tyr
The State should not be preferring one religion over another. If you want your children to be forced into learning about some god, go pick your special school, and pay for it if its that important. But the 'free' and standard education available to people should not be religiously inclined. That is not to stay you shouldn't learn about religions in state schools, how they impacted on history, how they influence culture today etc, but you shouldn't be taught that one religion is true.
And likewise back in the 70s it was okay for teachers to beat children, we move on, despite how many years previous that it had been considered fine.
logroller
06-14-2014, 04:19 PM
The State should not be preferring one religion over another. If you want your children to be forced into learning about some god, go pick your special school, and pay for it if its that important. But the 'free' and standard education available to people should not be religiously inclined. That is not to stay you shouldn't learn about religions in state schools, how they impacted on history, how they influence culture today etc, but you shouldn't be taught that one religion is true.
And likewise back in the 70s it was okay for teachers to beat children, we move on, despite how many years previous that it had been considered fine.
The standard school isn't free; it's paid for by tax dollars. Tax dollars that I don't have a choice over whether they're collected, but I should atleast enjoy some choice on how its spent. I agree there shouldn't be any religious instruction in public schools but I disagree that public schools should be afforded a monopoly on tax-based funding.
The standard school isn't free; it's paid for by tax dollars. Tax dollars that I don't have a choice over whether they're collected, but I should atleast enjoy some choice on how its spent. I agree there shouldn't be any religious instruction in public schools but I disagree that public schools should be afforded a monopoly on tax-based funding.
That's why i specifically typed 'free' instead of free.
red state
06-14-2014, 05:23 PM
Back to what Abbey was trying to convey: Unless we have a "guide book".....specific guide book, we can call one thing good that another calls evil (or if you like: call one thing right and the other wrong). Without a standard, there is no standard and, as liberals like to put it, "no REAL truth due to shades of truth or the interpretation of truth, right or wrong. As it so happens, OUR guide book is the Bible since 99% of our founders and a huge majority of those who fought and died to preserve this Great Nation were CHRISTIAN. It isn't a bad deal.....especially since you consider that our faith (not religion) accepts others and respects their religion. You can't say that about MOST muSLUM countries and we are so blessed to still be the standard for the world to look up to. As Tyr put it; we once used the Bible to teach reading in our classrooms and we had some of the brightest student in the world who grew up to do great things. Our other brilliant student were our founding fathers who just happened to be home schooled or private schooled for the most part and they spoke many languages, were top of the scale in Math and other Sciences. We would do well to go back to those days and I hate that Noir or other liberals can't see this fact....probably out of some hatred they have for faith or religion. I certainly hope Noir doesn't have some legitimate reason for hating his countrymen's religion being that it is predominately catholic. If so, Noir, please don't hold that experience against true Christians or Christianity.
Back to what Abbey was trying to convey: Unless we have a "guide book".....specific guide book, we can call one thing good that another calls evil (or if you like: call one thing right and the other wrong). Without a standard, there is no standard and, as liberals like to put it, "no REAL truth due to shades of truth or the interpretation of truth, right or wrong. As it so happens, OUR guide book is the Bible since 99% of our founders and a huge majority of those who fought and died to preserve this Great Nation were CHRISTIAN. It isn't a bad deal.....especially since you consider that our faith (not religion) accepts others and respects their religion. You can't say that about MOST muSLUM countries and we are so blessed to still be the standard for the world to look up to. As Tyr put it; we once used the Bible to teach reading in our classrooms and we had some of the brightest student in the world who grew up to do great things. Our other brilliant student were our founding fathers who just happened to be home schooled or private schooled for the most part and they spoke many languages, were top of the scale in Math and other Sciences. We would do well to go back to those days and I hate that Noir or other liberals can't see this fact....probably out of some hatred they have for faith or religion. I certainly hope Noir doesn't have some legitimate reason for hating his countrymen's religion being that it is predominately catholic. If so, Noir, please don't hold that experience against true Christians or Christianity.
Decades of murder, bullets, bombs, abductions, segregation, sectarianism, bigotry, sexism, and so on. Some guide book, you may not consider priests, ministers, and their congregations to be 'true christians' but you've then gotta consider you're starting to sound like those muslims...
NightTrain
06-14-2014, 06:54 PM
Whats the problem? The kids are forced to learn Christianity, as fact.
The only 'choice' comes from whether their parents want them to be one type of christian or another.
It was a joke, man. I thought it was funny.
NightTrain
06-14-2014, 07:29 PM
Decades of murder, bullets, bombs, abductions, segregation, sectarianism, bigotry, sexism, and so on. Some guide book, you may not consider priests, ministers, and their congregations to be 'true christians' but you've then gotta consider you're starting to sound like those muslims...
The principles you hold so dear are Christian ideals that derived from the Bible, Noir.
That's not to say that people haven't gone too far with their version of those ideals, because they have. I think every religion has had their share of extremists that have gone too far -- some have gone insanely overboard like Islam is today, and is getting worse.
Except Buddhism... I can't think of any Buddhist off the top of my head that's gone out with a machete or an IED in the name of that religion to start killing, but odds are that it's happened.
The "live and let live" principles and tolerance we enjoy today certainly didn't come from the thousands of dictators & kings that human history has witnessed. It didn't result from Henry VIII, Genghis Kahn, Mao, Cleopatra, Alexander the Great, Peter the Great, Atilla the Hun or Suleyman.
Civilization didn't begin coming around with the ideals we champion today until Christianity became widespread. Sure, you can look to the Greeks and argue that, but they still did some pretty fucked up things like feeding Tens of Thousands slaves to wild animals or forcing them to kill each other for entertainment purposes.
Nations founded on Christian teachings of tolerance, forgiveness, and justice have been built upon to give equality, freedom of speech and freedom of religion are what turned the corner for mankind and resulted in what we have today in civilized society.
logroller
06-14-2014, 08:47 PM
That's why i specifically typed 'free' instead of free.
So then if public schools taught about 'God' being the creator of all things...
red state
06-14-2014, 09:32 PM
Decades of murder, bullets, bombs, abductions, segregation, sectarianism, bigotry, sexism, and so on. Some guide book, you may not consider priests, ministers, and their congregations to be 'true christians' but you've then gotta consider you're starting to sound like those muslims...
Yeah, Noir, what I said and how muSLUMs act are so similar.....REALLY?! Is that your best liberal spin on what I wrote about a VERY tolerant and GREAT Nation that was founded on the BEST principle that man could EVER have that actually worked; to not only make US the best, brightest and most successful (who, by the way SAVED the entire world.....LITERALLY) but also trickled that success to the rest of the world. Yeah, if that is the comparison of our founding religion (the faith in Christ) religion that also contains GOD in our founding law (aka the Constitution) which allows freedom for ALL to worship as they see fit.....with FREEDOM (OF) religion and not freedom FrOM religion as the liberals try to twist it then I suppose you truly have no ground to stand on. With that said, your reply to me was unfounded and you still don't understand a thing Abbey was trying to express. The situation and hatred that is detected is truly sad.
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