My friend, a Muslim

[jimnyc]

This particular guy is Karim. He's very devoted to his religion, but you wouldn't know it if you met him, as he's generally messing around with people and cursing a lot. All in good fun though. He also happens to work at the station I frequent due to coffee addiction and proximity. This is where I met my other very good friend, Amir, who is now a sergeant in our local police force. The owner and such... A very Muslim station, from Morocco, Jordan, Algeria, Saudi... Karim is from Morocco. I've known him for about 10 years now. I've learned a lot about him over the years, and also of Islam by discussing things with him.

So anyway, I put $50 in my left front pocket yesterday to go pickup laundry. After a bit, I slid my cell phone into the same front pocket, forgetting the money was there of course. A few hours later I was at the rehab center where my wife's grandmother is at due to a hip injury/surgery. I took out my cell to send a text, and at that moment I remembered the $50, and realized that it wasn't there. I retraced my steps back down the elevator and back out to my truck, and all around inside my truck. No luck, so I went back inside all pissed off. I tried to recall everything and anything. I figured I pulled the phone out somewhere along those few hours and the money came out with it. Most people finding cold hard cash in public are going to keep it. I considered it gone and chalked it up for a loss.

Then I took a longshot and texted Karim to see if anyone had found any money at the station. He simply replied "Yes". I called him immediately to make sure he wasn't kidding. He asked specifically what did I lose, amount and set of bills, and I told him 2 twenties and a ten, and that it was by pump 2 or inside. He said he had went out front for a cigarette and saw what looked like cash by pump 2, and went and looked and saw the cash. Of course he returned the money to me when I saw him.

The honesty is rare, at least in these parts of NY! And honestly, I think I might have kept the cash should I have pulled up and saw it laying by the pump. I should be shot. :)

The wife and I are going to take him to one of our favorite restaurants for his honesty. And I will order pork and make him watch me eat. :coffee:

Don't worry, I haven't converted to Islam! I just thought that since this happened, I would share and show that I'm not afraid to recognize the good Muslim folks in this world. Karim is a long time friend, and one I now will feel indebted to for quite some time due to his rare quality.

[Drummond]

This particular guy is Karim. He's very devoted to his religion, but you wouldn't know it if you met him, as he's generally messing around with people and cursing a lot. All in good fun though. He also happens to work at the station I frequent due to coffee addiction and proximity. This is where I met my other very good friend, Amir, who is now a sergeant in our local police force. The owner and such... A very Muslim station, from Morocco, Jordan, Algeria, Saudi... Karim is from Morocco. I've known him for about 10 years now. I've learned a lot about him over the years, and also of Islam by discussing things with him.

So anyway, I put $50 in my left front pocket yesterday to go pickup laundry. After a bit, I slid my cell phone into the same front pocket, forgetting the money was there of course. A few hours later I was at the rehab center where my wife's grandmother is at due to a hip injury/surgery. I took out my cell to send a text, and at that moment I remembered the $50, and realized that it wasn't there. I retraced my steps back down the elevator and back out to my truck, and all around inside my truck. No luck, so I went back inside all pissed off. I tried to recall everything and anything. I figured I pulled the phone out somewhere along those few hours and the money came out with it. Most people finding cold hard cash in public are going to keep it. I considered it gone and chalked it up for a loss.

Then I took a longshot and texted Karim to see if anyone had found any money at the station. He simply replied "Yes". I called him immediately to make sure he wasn't kidding. He asked specifically what did I lose, amount and set of bills, and I told him 2 twenties and a ten, and that it was by pump 2 or inside. He said he had went out front for a cigarette and saw what looked like cash by pump 2, and went and looked and saw the cash. Of course he returned the money to me when I saw him.

The honesty is rare, at least in these parts of NY! And honestly, I think I might have kept the cash should I have pulled up and saw it laying by the pump. I should be shot. :)

The wife and I are going to take him to one of our favorite restaurants for his honesty. And I will order pork and make him watch me eat. :coffee:

Don't worry, I haven't converted to Islam! I just thought that since this happened, I would share and show that I'm not afraid to recognize the good Muslim folks in this world. Karim is a long time friend, and one I now will feel indebted to for quite some time due to his rare quality.

It's a nice account, and thanks for it.

I suggest this, though ....

If this forum teaches anything, where Islamic discussion is concerned .. it seems to be that people see from it what they are most inclined to see. We have our resident Islam-promoter here, who will go to great lengths to sell what he says is true for Islam, and will happily distance those aspects from his preferred vision of Islam to see to it that the rosier picture predominates .. whether realities intrude on that, or not.

So, do different Muslims see Islam differently from each other, according either to preference, or varying correctness of understanding, or both ? And .. WHO IS RIGHT ?

I've posted myself on the principle of abrogation. It seems, from what I've discovered, that 'nastier' stuff overrules earlier 'kindly' teachings (suggesting to me that Muslim terrorism is truer to the ACTUAL nature of Islam). Some Muslims may genuinely identify with the kindlier stuff and ignore the abrogation material (or be unaware of it).

Or, there may be Muslims who only loosely identify with their own religion in any case, who consider themselves to be individuals who'll be true to their own personalities, first and foremost.

Perhaps .. Karim is one such person ?

Jim, have you suggested that Karim joins this forum ? Does he have any interest in doing so ?

[jimnyc]

It's a nice account, and thanks for it.

I suggest this, though ....

If this forum teaches anything, where Islamic discussion is concerned .. it seems to be that people see from it what they are most inclined to see. We have our resident Islam-promoter here, who will go to great lengths to sell what he says is true for Islam, and will happily distance those aspects from his preferred vision of Islam to see to it that the rosier picture predominates .. whether realities intrude on that, or not.

So, do different Muslims see Islam differently from each other, according either to preference, or varying correctness of understanding, or both ? And .. WHO IS RIGHT ?

I've posted myself on the principle of abrogation. It seems, from what I've discovered, that 'nastier' stuff overrules earlier 'kindly' teachings (suggesting to me that Muslim terrorism is truer to the ACTUAL nature of Islam). Some Muslims may genuinely identify with the kindlier stuff and ignore the abrogation material (or be unaware of it).

Or, there may be Muslims who only loosely identify with their own religion in any case, who consider themselves to be individuals who'll be true to their own personalities, first and foremost.

Perhaps .. Karim is one such person ?

Jim, have you suggested that Karim joins this forum ? Does he have any interest in doing so ?

I've asked him to come post here like 100 times and he continues to refuse. He's not big into computers and doesn't understand the whole forum thing. I don't think you would like his opinions/views anyway! Very little that I argue with him will he admit is a problem, or admit is Islamic. Usually it's someone else's fault and he tries to absolve the Islamic world of wrongdoing. But while he defends the Quran and the religion, I've not seen him often make excuses for any type of terrorist or sympathize with them in any way. Him and I have had some battles over the years and have learned that, for our friendship, we simply don't discuss certain things. We're still cordial on subjects, we just avoid debates. I did in fact disown him for awhile as he had made some comments that were anti-American. But like any other friendships, people talk smack and piss one another off and then make friends again. What keeps me being friends with Karim, religion and certain opinions aside, is that he is good people.

But to answer a little more directly, yes, he considers himself to be more of an individual. While he defends Islam, he also strays from the beaten path and has adapted himself to the NY culture, and I think my bad influence has even rubbed off a bit! There are times that you would think he is the perfect Muslim, like during Ramadan, and then other times he reminds you that he has his own ways as well - like the time the 2 of us went out and I watched him drink Long Island Iced Tea's like they were water (that's a heavily mixed drink full of yummy alcohol, where just one should do the trick!).

[Drummond]

I've asked him to come post here like 100 times and he continues to refuse. He's not big into computers and doesn't understand the whole forum thing. I don't think you would like his opinions/views anyway! Very little that I argue with him will he admit is a problem, or admit is Islamic. Usually it's someone else's fault and he tries to absolve the Islamic world of wrongdoing. But while he defends the Quran and the religion, I've not seen him often make excuses for any type of terrorist or sympathize with them in any way. Him and I have had some battles over the years and have learned that, for our friendship, we simply don't discuss certain things. We're still cordial on subjects, we just avoid debates. I did in fact disown him for awhile as he had made some comments that were anti-American. But like any other friendships, people talk smack and piss one another off and then make friends again. What keeps me being friends with Karim, religion and certain opinions aside, is that he is good people.

But to answer a little more directly, yes, he considers himself to be more of an individual. While he defends Islam, he also strays from the beaten path and has adapted himself to the NY culture, and I think my bad influence has even rubbed off a bit! There are times that you would think he is the perfect Muslim, like during Ramadan, and then other times he reminds you that he has his own ways as well - like the time the 2 of us went out and I watched him drink Long Island Iced Tea's like they were water (that's a heavily mixed drink full of yummy alcohol, where just one should do the trick!).

Thanks for that, Jim.

I daresay you're correct, and I wouldn't like his opinions or views. But then, whether I'd like them or not is really my problem, surely ? If he's honest in what he says, if there's integrity in his willingness to give and take in a debate, what more could you ask for on here ? I'd like to see him put them to the test here, and we'd all see how well (or otherwise) the merits of his arguments stood up to scrutiny.

I'm glad there's an individual lurking there, though, and not just someone subservient to a faith out of slavish obedience to it .. sounds like an interesting character, maybe even open to alternative viewpoints, if that's the case ? Hope you find some way, at some time, to get him here (.. preferably not because he was plastered at the time .. ?).

[jafar00]

I have a similar story.

When I was in London. I went home after attending Eid prayers at the Mosque in Seven Sisters and realised I had dropped my wallet.
Luckily, one of the brothers at the Mosque picked it up and asked everyone he knew if they knew where I lived and he got my address and drove over to give me my wallet back. That's a good 20km drive.

Jim, may your friend be blessed. His way of dealing with it is almost as described in Hadiths about the same subject. When someone finds lost property, he should announce it as lost property and wait a year before claiming it. And if the owner comes forth to claim it and can describe the lost property (In your case two twenties and a ten), it should be returned.

You can read about it more here http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/index.php?page=articles&id=135453

Thanks Jim for another example of how we should all strive to be, not just Muslims.

[jimnyc]

I have a similar story.

When I was in London. I went home after attending Eid prayers at the Mosque in Seven Sisters and realised I had dropped my wallet.
Luckily, one of the brothers at the Mosque picked it up and asked everyone he knew if they knew where I lived and he got my address and drove over to give me my wallet back. That's a good 20km drive.

Jim, may your friend be blessed. His way of dealing with it is almost as described in Hadiths about the same subject. When someone finds lost property, he should announce it as lost property and wait a year before claiming it. And if the owner comes forth to claim it and can describe the lost property (In your case two twenties and a ten), it should be returned.

You can read about it more here http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/index.php?page=articles&id=135453

Thanks Jim for another example of how we should all strive to be, not just Muslims.

He and his boss told me that the money was "blessed" when they returned it. Unfortunately, that blessed money is now in the pocket of the little Mexican girl who did my laundry!!

On my way to Pittsburgh to see a Steelers game for the first time, 1998, we left from Laguardia airport in NY. I was still a smoker then and we stopped at the bar so I could puff before leaving. When I got to Pittsburgh, of course I ran outside to have a smoke, only to realize my lighter was gone. It was no ordinary lighter, to me anyway, it was a specially designed Steelers lighter, and now it was gone.

Just as a longshot again, I stopped there on the way home. I asked the woman if anyone had found a lighter. I was shocked when she told me SHE had. She said she had brought it home. She took my address and about 3 days later I got it back by Fedex!! Even though the lighter was only like $50 itself, I think I sent her back a $20 or so?

As for me? I'm sure I have some decency in there! A few years ago I saw an awesome looking Bulldog walking down my road, all by himself. I fell in love with the fat bastard. I watched him for like 10 minutes and realized he was on his own. I walked down the road and coaxed him to my house with some of my dogs treats. I found his collar had a number and called them. Who knew the little ball of fat lived only 2 blocks away. I waited with my new friend for like an hour before they finally came and retrieved him. Maybe it wasn't money, but I would give someone all I had if they found and saved my doggy!! :)

[jimnyc]

Oh, and I bolded that last sentence in your reply, Jafar, as I couldn't agree with you more!!!

[jafar00]

I for one am enjoying reading uplifting stories for once :)

[gabosaurus]

Of course, if you hadn't called him when you did, your money would be in the hands of a shoe bomber by now. Or perhaps a strip joint. :cool:

[Jeff]

Of course, if you hadn't called him when you did, your money would be in the hands of a shoe bomber by now. Or perhaps a strip joint. :cool:

No Doubt and Y'all said there was no hope for gabby :rolleyes:

[Jeff]

I love to see Morons try and stir the POT, I don't think I have ever seen anyone say all Muslims are bad, in fact I have told the story many times how one of my best friends growing up was a Muslim, my issue is with those that do wrong and use the religion to do so and/or those that are Muslim and make excuses for every thing that happens and try to play it off as well they aren't real, they may not be but shouldn't ya be getting pissed by now at the animals that are doing this and maybe stand up in front of the world and stop these lying bastards ? Instead of just allowing it to go on and making excuses, and then yes you have idiots that know nothing of either side except for what the liberal left tells them but they feel they must chime in anyway :rolleyes:

I have never met the guys Jim speaks of but have had second hand conversations with ( at least one of them ) while speaking to Jim, he seems like a great guy!!

[jimnyc]

I have never met the guys Jim speaks of but have had second hand conversations with ( at least one of them ) while speaking to Jim, he seems like a great guy!!

I tell Karim a lot about you. Karim is FAR from innocent, and he thinks he would have a lot in common with you! LOL Everytime my phone rings he's like "Is that the one I like from Georgia" and he's never even met you!