How will you get yourself into heaven? On your own merit or via a scapegoat?

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

How will you get yourself into heaven? On your own merit or via a scapegoat?


Revisit substitutionary atonement or vicarious redemption and scapegoating with me just to refresh your memory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNtBkOXItqw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNtBkOXItqw)

I am not an atheist but Satan and Christians want atheists to embrace barbaric human sacrifice and the notion that we should profit from punishing the innocent instead of the guilty. Scapegoating IOW.

In reality, if God did demand such a barbaric sacrifice, he would be sinning as we all know that it is immoral to kill the innocent. God knows this yet Christians do not seem to. You do. Right?

Those with good morals will know that no noble and gracious God would demand the sacrifice of a son just to prove it's benevolence. When you die, Satan will ask you; how was your ticket to heaven purchased? With innocent blood?

If and when you say yes, you become his.

-----------------------------------

The other option in scriptures, a moral one, is shown here. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Scriptures indicate that God prefers repentance to sacrifice and as God’s will is supreme and cannot be thwarted, this will come to pass.

---------------------------------

It is a special distorted Christian view of love that sees, --- as the greatest act of love possible, --- their God condemning them, and then turning and demanding his son’s deaths and thus corrupting God's perfect justice. A bribe set by God as judge himself for himself. This is of course ridiculous.

Christians have an insane view of love, IMO.

Would you express your love for humanity or those you love by having your own child needlessly murdered?

Or if convinced that a sacrifice was somehow good, would you have the moral fortitude to step up yourself to that cross instead of sending your child?

Your cowardly God did not.

Regards
DL

[darin]

your mom.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

your mom.

Perfect.
You show no argument is possible.

Regards
DL

[aboutime]

How will you get yourself into heaven? On your own merit or via a scapegoat?


Revisit substitutionary atonement or vicarious redemption and scapegoating with me just to refresh your memory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNtBkOXItqw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNtBkOXItqw)

I am not an atheist but Satan and Christians want atheists to embrace barbaric human sacrifice and the notion that we should profit from punishing the innocent instead of the guilty. Scapegoating IOW.

In reality, if God did demand such a barbaric sacrifice, he would be sinning as we all know that it is immoral to kill the innocent. God knows this yet Christians do not seem to. You do. Right?

Those with good morals will know that no noble and gracious God would demand the sacrifice of a son just to prove it's benevolence. When you die, Satan will ask you; how was your ticket to heaven purchased? With innocent blood?

If and when you say yes, you become his.

-----------------------------------

The other option in scriptures, a moral one, is shown here. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Scriptures indicate that God prefers repentance to sacrifice and as God’s will is supreme and cannot be thwarted, this will come to pass.

---------------------------------

It is a special distorted Christian view of love that sees, --- as the greatest act of love possible, --- their God condemning them, and then turning anddemanding his son’s deaths and thus corrupting God's perfect justice. A bribe set by God as judge himself for himself. This is of course ridiculous.

Christians have an insane view of love, IMO.

Would you express your love for humanity or those you love by having your own child needlessly murdered?

Or if convinced that a sacrifice was somehow good, would you have the moral fortitude to step up yourself to that cross instead of sending your child?

Your cowardly God did not.

Regards
DL



Not that someone like you is important enough to discuss such a personal matter.
But. That question is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.
Take your preaching, scriptures, and Selfishness elsewhere.

I have no need to defend, make excuses for, explain, or share such personal feelings with
such a perfectly unimportant stranger...here on a Worldwide, Open source of misery, ignorance,
and stupidity.
In other words. I repeat....NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.
You don't matter.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Not that someone like you is important enough to discuss such a personal matter.
But. That question is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.
Take your preaching, scriptures, and Selfishness elsewhere.

I have no need to defend, make excuses for, explain, or share such personal feelings with
such a perfectly unimportant stranger...here on a Worldwide, Open source of misery, ignorance,
and stupidity.
In other words. I repeat....NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.
You don't matter.

Perfect.
You show no argument is possible.

Regards
DL

[aboutime]

Perfect.
You show no argument is possible.

Regards
DL


The only thing PERFECT, other than your constantly repeating the same lame words is. How Perfectly ignorant you prove yourself to be, bringing such topics here...then hiding behind freedom of speech to defy Common sense, and Humanity.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

:lame2:

Here is a quarter.

Regards
DL

[red state]

:trolls:

PPpLLLlleeeeeeeeeezzzzzZZZZZzEEee!!!!!

[darin]

Perfect.
You show no argument is possible.

Regards
DL

...and your dad, too.

[jimnyc]

How will you get yourself into heaven?

Please read the following regarding another one of your filth posts...

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?46053-Trolling-trolling-trolling-keep-those-posties-trolling&p=695032#post695032

[logroller]

How will you get yourself into heaven? On your own merit or via a scapegoat?
Loaded question/ False dilemma. Intriguing subject but you presuppose too much.

[jafar00]

Muslims believe the path to heaven is by performing good deeds. All our deeds, good and bad will be weighed up on the Day of Judgement and if your scales are heavy with good, you go to heaven. Heavy with bad deeds? You go to hell. That's very over simplified but the gist in a nutshell.

[Abbey Marie]

your mom.

I like Blueberry Pancakes and Orange Slices.
We have a Mazda.
Time to put the clothes in the Dryer.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Muslims believe the path to heaven is by performing good deeds. All our deeds, good and bad will be weighed up on the Day of Judgement and if your scales are heavy with good, you go to heaven. Heavy with bad deeds? You go to hell. That's very over simplified but the gist in a nutshell.
You said it Jafar. Islam teaches that man can buy his way into Heaven by good deeds. A concept ridiculous and silly. Christianity teaches that salvation is gift one only has to ask for and receive. After that belief in Christ the sacrificial lamb does the rest. Man can not ever buy his way into Heaven , not with gold, jewels or good deeds. -Tyr

[gabosaurus]

Don't know about the OP, but my ticket to Heaven was arranged about 2,000 years ago when my Lord and Savior died on the cross.

[jafar00]

Don't know about the OP, but my ticket to Heaven was arranged about 2,000 years ago when my Lord and Savior died on the cross.

So, that leaves you free to sin? :p

[logroller]

Muslims believe the path to heaven is by performing good deeds. All our deeds, good and bad will be weighed up on the Day of Judgement and if your scales are heavy with good, you go to heaven. Heavy with bad deeds? You go to hell. That's very over simplified but the gist in a nutshell.
Good works are but One pillar; faith too is an integral component iirc. I believe that through sin we are all dead to God; through faith are we redeemed. While good works shall surely be where there is faith, good works are merely a demonstration of that faith.

Allow me to pose a question: suppose there is a man who performs good deeds but lacks faith-- is he saved?
If not, then surely faith is the impetus of salvation. If he is saved, then faith is irrelevant.

Understanding this, it begs the question, can one have faith and not works and still be saved? Suppose a man converts to Islam and, tragically, dies shortly after in an automobile accident having never performed any good works-- is he saved? Is the slate wiped clean upon conversion? What if he had led a good life beforehand? A dastardly one?

I cannot fathom a functional calculus of good vs bad works; too easily contemptuous IMO. I mean, if I do a bunch of really good things does it buy me so much good grace that I can do some really bad things too? It just seems to me that faith alone must suffice; that while I may falter and sin (bad works), it is faith and not good works that overcomes my failures.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Muslims believe the path to heaven is by performing good deeds. All our deeds, good and bad will be weighed up on the Day of Judgement and if your scales are heavy with good, you go to heaven. Heavy with bad deeds? You go to hell. That's very over simplified but the gist in a nutshell.

Is recognizing the equality of all peoples, gays and women a good Muslim deed?

Do you recognized Allah's curse against men of 72 virgins for us in heaven?

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

You said it Jafar. Islam teaches that man can buy his way into Heaven by good deeds. A concept ridiculous and silly. Christianity teaches that salvation is gift one only has to ask for and receive. After that belief in Christ the sacrificial lamb does the rest. Man can not ever buy his way into Heaven , not with gold, jewels or good deeds. -Tyr

How will you get yourself into heaven? On your own merit or via a scapegoat?

Revisit substitutionary atonement or vicarious redemption and scapegoating with me just to refresh your memory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNtBkOXItqw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNtBkOXItqw)

I am not an atheist but Satan and Christians want atheists to embrace barbaric human sacrifice and the notion that we should profit from punishing the innocent instead of the guilty. Scapegoating IOW.

In reality, if God did demand such a barbaric sacrifice, he would be sinning as we all know that it is immoral to kill the innocent. God knows this yet Christians do not seem to. You do. Right?

Those with good morals will know that no noble and gracious God would demand the sacrifice of a son just to prove it's benevolence. When you die, Satan will ask you; how was your ticket to heaven purchased? With innocent blood?

If and when you say yes, you become his.

-----------------------------------

The other option in scriptures, a moral one, is shown here. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Scriptures indicate that God prefers repentance to sacrifice and as God’s will is supreme and cannot be thwarted, this will come to pass.

---------------------------------

It is a special distorted Christian view of love that sees, --- as the greatest act of love possible, --- their God condemning them, and then turning and demanding his son’s deaths and thus corrupting God's perfect justice. A bribe set by God as judge himself for himself. This is of course ridiculous.

Christians have an insane view of love, IMO.

Would you express your love for humanity or those you love by having your own child needlessly murdered?

Or if convinced that a sacrifice was somehow good, would you have the moral fortitude to step up yourself to that cross instead of sending your child?

Your cowardly God did not.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Don't know about the OP, but my ticket to Heaven was arranged about 2,000 years ago when my Lord and Savior died on the cross.

Too brain dead to recognize your shame.

Is God a just judge?



This speaks of Jesus.
He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

The above quote shows this as Gods first actual judgement and shows his setting and accepting a bribe of a human sacrifice to corrupt or alter his justice and judgement.

Justice usually states that only the punishment of the guilty is acceptable to justice and that it would be unjust to punish the innocent.

God’s corruption of this usual justice is what the bribe or sacrifice of Jesus bought. Injustice.

If you elect your judges in your country, would you vote God in as a fair and just judge knowing that he can be bribed?

Is God a just judge?

Regards
DL

[jafar00]

Good works are but One pillar; faith too is an integral component iirc. I believe that through sin we are all dead to God; through faith are we redeemed. While good works shall surely be where there is faith, good works are merely a demonstration of that faith.

Allow me to pose a question: suppose there is a man who performs good deeds but lacks faith-- is he saved?
If not, then surely faith is the impetus of salvation. If he is saved, then faith is irrelevant.

He could be saved but be entirely at the Mercy of God. On the day of judgement, your deeds and your faith will speak up on your behalf. There is also the power of intercession of the Prophets. Mohamed (saw), Jesus (as) or even Jonah (as) can speak up for you to tell of your faith and your actions.


Understanding this, it begs the question, can one have faith and not works and still be saved? Suppose a man converts to Islam and, tragically, dies shortly after in an automobile accident having never performed any good works-- is he saved? Is the slate wiped clean upon conversion? What if he had led a good life beforehand? A dastardly one?

If he was sincere in his converting to Islam, his slate is indeed wiped clean. If he was a hypocrite (forced conversion or the like), he would be damned to hell.


I cannot fathom a functional calculus of good vs bad works; too easily contemptuous IMO. I mean, if I do a bunch of really good things does it buy me so much good grace that I can do some really bad things too? It just seems to me that faith alone must suffice; that while I may falter and sin (bad works), it is faith and not good works that overcomes my failures.

It's up to you to make sure that your bad deeds are small and unintentional. If they are intentional, they carry a much greater weight than mere mistakes. In Islam, intention is everything.


Is recognizing the equality of all peoples, gays and women a good Muslim deed?

Do you recognized Allah's curse against men of 72 virgins for us in heaven?

Regards
DL

72 virgins is a myth.

And Islam gave women equality 1400+ years ago. Don't confuse the oppressive regimes of despots and dictators we have today for Islam.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

72 virgins is a myth.

Not to other Muslims I speak to.



And Islam gave women equality 1400+ years ago. Don't confuse the oppressive regimes of despots and dictators we have today for Islam.

Ok. Those Muslims are not Muslims.

LDS and Fundamentalist Christians are not Christian either.

Your blind spot is showing.

Regards
DL

[KarlMarx]

Don't know about the OP, but my ticket to Heaven was arranged about 2,000 years ago when my Lord and Savior died on the cross.

Could not agree with you more!

[KarlMarx]

So, that leaves you free to sin? :p

Grace does not excuse us from sin.. From St Paul's letter to the Romans

6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection,6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him.10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

[aboutime]

He could be saved but be entirely at the Mercy of God. On the day of judgement, your deeds and your faith will speak up on your behalf. There is also the power of intercession of the Prophets. Mohamed (saw), Jesus (as) or even Jonah (as) can speak up for you to tell of your faith and your actions.



If he was sincere in his converting to Islam, his slate is indeed wiped clean. If he was a hypocrite (forced conversion or the like), he would be damned to hell.



It's up to you to make sure that your bad deeds are small and unintentional. If they are intentional, they carry a much greater weight than mere mistakes. In Islam, intention is everything.



72 virgins is a myth.

And Islam gave women equality 1400+ years ago. Don't confuse the oppressive regimes of despots and dictators we have today for Islam.


Wrong again jafar. It's only ONE virgin. ONE 72 YEAR OLD male, virgin.

[tailfins]

Muslims believe the path to heaven is by performing good deeds. All our deeds, good and bad will be weighed up on the Day of Judgement and if your scales are heavy with good, you go to heaven. Heavy with bad deeds? You go to hell. That's very over simplified but the gist in a nutshell.

Ephesians 2:8
<small style="color:#999999;"> </small>
8 (http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Ephesians-2-8/)For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: (http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Ephesians-2-8/)


- King James Bible "Authorized Version", Cambridge Edition



John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


- King James Bible "Authorized Version", Cambridge Edition

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Ephesians 2:8
<small style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);"> </small>
8 (http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Ephesians-2-8/)For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: (http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Ephesians-2-8/)


- King James Bible "Authorized Version", Cambridge Edition



John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


- King James Bible "Authorized Version", Cambridge Edition

Now that was disgustingly immoral and lying cherry picking.

You forgot to quote what James said about Jesus knowing his people by their works and deeds and that faith without them was dad.

Do try to b e more honest, Christian.

Regard
DL

[DragonStryk72]

How will you get yourself into heaven? On your own merit or via a scapegoat?


Revisit substitutionary atonement or vicarious redemption and scapegoating with me just to refresh your memory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNtBkOXItqw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNtBkOXItqw)

I am not an atheist but Satan and Christians want atheists to embrace barbaric human sacrifice and the notion that we should profit from punishing the innocent instead of the guilty. Scapegoating IOW.

In reality, if God did demand such a barbaric sacrifice, he would be sinning as we all know that it is immoral to kill the innocent. God knows this yet Christians do not seem to. You do. Right?

Those with good morals will know that no noble and gracious God would demand the sacrifice of a son just to prove it's benevolence. When you die, Satan will ask you; how was your ticket to heaven purchased? With innocent blood?

If and when you say yes, you become his.

-----------------------------------

The other option in scriptures, a moral one, is shown here. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Scriptures indicate that God prefers repentance to sacrifice and as God’s will is supreme and cannot be thwarted, this will come to pass.

---------------------------------

It is a special distorted Christian view of love that sees, --- as the greatest act of love possible, --- their God condemning them, and then turning anddemanding his son’s deaths and thus corrupting God's perfect justice. A bribe set by God as judge himself for himself. This is of course ridiculous.

Christians have an insane view of love, IMO.

Would you express your love for humanity or those you love by having your own child needlessly murdered?

Or if convinced that a sacrifice was somehow good, would you have the moral fortitude to step up yourself to that cross instead of sending your child?

Your cowardly God did not.

Regards
DL



Um... God didn't kill Jesus. The Romans did, beginning to end. God resurrected him after the fact. Yeah, he was crucified for several days, then got run-through with a spear for a "merciful" death by a Roman soldier.

Second, failing the above, Jesus had choice. This is clearly demonstration during his 40 days in the desert, when he is tempted by Satan to use his god-given powers for his own benefit. There's no point in a temptation, if there is no chance of temptation. Jesus was both fully-human, and fully-divine, meaning he has free will. He could've bagged out at any point.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Um... God didn't kill Jesus. The Romans did, beginning to end. God resurrected him after the fact. Yeah, he was crucified for several days, then got run-through with a spear for a "merciful" death by a Roman soldier.

Second, failing the above, Jesus had choice. This is clearly demonstration during his 40 days in the desert, when he is tempted by Satan to use his god-given powers for his own benefit. There's no point in a temptation, if there is no chance of temptation. Jesus was both fully-human, and fully-divine, meaning he has free will. He could've bagged out at any point.

I guess that pre-ordained thanks to God's great plan means nothing to you. If Jesus was chosen before people were even created as scriptures say, then God had to choose then who would do the killing and they would have no choice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ott15j2KwQ&feature=related

Regards
DL

[red state]

Good works are but One pillar; faith too is an integral component iirc. I believe that through sin we are all dead to God; through faith are we redeemed. While good works shall surely be where there is faith, good works are merely a demonstration of that faith.

Allow me to pose a question: suppose there is a man who performs good deeds but lacks faith-- is he saved?
If not, then surely faith is the impetus of salvation. If he is saved, then faith is irrelevant.

Understanding this, it begs the question, can one have faith and not works and still be saved? Suppose a man converts to Islam and, tragically, dies shortly after in an automobile accident having never performed any good works-- is he saved? Is the slate wiped clean upon conversion? What if he had led a good life beforehand? A dastardly one?

I cannot fathom a functional calculus of good vs bad works; too easily contemptuous IMO. I mean, if I do a bunch of really good things does it buy me so much good grace that I can do some really bad things too? It just seems to me that faith alone must suffice; that while I may falter and sin (bad works), it is faith and not good works that overcomes my failures.

"It just seems to me that faith alone must suffice; that while I may falter and sin (bad works), it is FAITH and not good works that overcomes my failures"

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::c lap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

I couldn't agree more that FAITH and trust in the ONE who paid our debt and conquered death is the ONLY way to eternal light/LIFE. Through WORKS.....we fall short EVERY time. One thing to consider is that man has questionable concepts of good and evil. Some see evil as good and good as evil. Cults usually dwell on "WORKS" which is how they convince their sheep to do some awful things.

As a Christian, we are not perfect and we do stumble (OFTEN) but as the old children's song goes......"HE IS STILL WORKING ON ME". One day, we will ALL be like HIM and it will have nothing to do with what we've done but what we've done THROUGH Him. If a Christian continues to fall short (willingly or through weakness). God will chastise His own children but allows the wicked to prosper (if it is in HIS plan). So, if you continually do wickedly, you should fear that you were never HIS to begin with or that He will surely call you home early or make an example of you here on earth.

Great reply Log.....well thought out, respectful and in detailed for all to understand TRUE Christianity (THE FAITH) not the cults and false doctrine of so-called Christianity that still applies WORKS and requires mediators. We have but ONE high priest that is to be praised and through Him, we can lay ALL of our cares at his feet and on His VERY able and sturdy shoulders.

[red state]

Everyone, please remember our bro/sisters in Iraq and other such places....they are in dire need right now.

[tailfins]

"It just seems to me that faith alone must suffice; that while I may falter and sin (bad works), it is FAITH and not good works that overcomes my failures"

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::c lap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

I couldn't agree more that FAITH and trust in the ONE who paid our debt and conquered death is the ONLY way to eternal light/LIFE. Through WORKS.....we fall short EVERY time. One thing to consider is that man has questionable concepts of good and evil. Some see evil as good and good as evil. Cults usually dwell on "WORKS" which is how they convince their sheep to do some awful things.

As a Christian, we are not perfect and we do stumble (OFTEN) but as the old children's song goes......"HE IS STILL WORKING ON ME". One day, we will ALL be like HIM and it will have nothing to do with what we've done but what we've done THROUGH Him. If a Christian continues to fall short (willingly or through weakness). God will chastise His own children but allows the wicked to prosper (if it is in HIS plan). So, if you continually do wickedly, you should fear that you were never HIS to begin with or that He will surely call you home early or make an example of you here on earth.

Great reply Log.....well thought out, respectful and in detailed for all to understand TRUE Christianity (THE FAITH) not the cults and false doctrine of so-called Christianity that still applies WORKS and requires mediators. We have but ONE high priest that is to be praised and through Him, we can lay ALL of our cares at his feet and on His VERY able and sturdy shoulders.

My son told me another kid asked him if suicide will send you to hell. My answer is, I don't think it will, but if God wants you alive, you'll stay alive. Of course the alive from a failed attempt could mean fifty years as a paraplegic.

[DragonStryk72]

I guess that pre-ordained thanks to God's great plan means nothing to you. If Jesus was chosen before people were even created as scriptures say, then God had to choose then who would do the killing and they would have no choice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ott15j2KwQ&feature=related

Regards
DL

Let's say I want to build a bridge. Now, I need to choose a foreman for the project, and I've got a bunch of options on the point. There's this one guy's who basically perfect for it: Good resume, letters of rec, pictures of his other bridges that he built, and he's not asking for a huge salary for the job. I choose that guy, before the project begins.

Now, Does that foreman have the choice to turn down the job? Absolutely. There, your argument's dead. Moving on.

[red state]

My son told me another kid asked him if suicide will send you to hell. My answer is, I don't think it will, but if God wants you alive, you'll stay alive. Of course the alive from a failed attempt could mean fifty years as a paraplegic.

TAILFINS, as best I know about 'unpardonable sin', the ONLY sin that will condemn anyone to Hell is the rejection and turning away of Christ. All other sins (including self-murder) is a sin that can be forgiven. This is from what I've been able to study and reflect upon from those who have a doctrine regarding the subject. Your mention of 50 years as a paraplegic is certainly spot on and could be considered a hell on earth in my OPINION. Thank you for that reflection.....others would do well to heed your warning.

Still, I truly don't like these types of threads and probably shouldn't have participated (especially given the author) but it is good that we can discuss around those who would create a thread to simply spout off their PERSONAL problems with faith or faith that others adore. The liberal mind is truly a dark place that respects no one.

[logroller]

Now that was disgustingly immoral and lying cherry picking.

You forgot to quote what James said about Jesus knowing his people by their works and deeds and that faith without them was dad.

Do try to b e more honest, Christian.

Regard
DL
Thou cast stones. You forget what Paul said,

"know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified." Galatians 2:16

"not by works, so that no one can boast" Ephesians 2:9

Faith is evident in one's works-- That's all Jesus meant-- it's not salvation that's earned by works-- it's just that a man if faith shall demonstrate such through works.
It be like saying, if you're a USC graduate, then you cheer for their sports teams; but that doesn't mean that all who cheer for their sports teams are graduates of USC.

If you're gonna introduce the faith debate, do try to be more honest, Gnostic.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Let's say I want to build a bridge. Now, I need to choose a foreman for the project, and I've got a bunch of options on the point. There's this one guy's who basically perfect for it: Good resume, letters of rec, pictures of his other bridges that he built, and he's not asking for a huge salary for the job. I choose that guy, before the project begins.

Now, Does that foreman have the choice to turn down the job? Absolutely. There, your argument's dead. Moving on.

Another swollen headed fool.

How can Jesus refuse himself. Impossible. Bt keep embracing human sacrifice. Satan promotes that quite heavily.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Thou cast stones. You forget what Paul said,

"know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified." Galatians 2:16

"not by works, so that no one can boast" Ephesians 2:9

Faith is evident in one's works-- That's all Jesus meant-- it's not salvation that's earned by works-- it's just that a man if faith shall demonstrate such through works.
It be like saying, if you're a USC graduate, then you cheer for their sports teams; but that doesn't mean that all who cheer for their sports teams are graduates of USC.

If you're gonna introduce the faith debate, do try to be more honest, Gnostic.

Faith without facts is for fools.

Regard
DL

[jimnyc]

Another swollen headed fool.


Faith without facts is for fools.

If you want to troll with data and your viewpoints, cool - but stop with the lame name calling and such when others aren't doing so to you. That's why these threads degrade so quickly. If kept as an honest debate without the names and insults, maybe the responses in these threads would be better and longer.

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Impossible with literalist fools who believe in fantasy, miracles and magic and love a genocidal son murdering prick of a God.

Regards
DL

[tailfins]

Impossible with literalist fools who believe in fantasy, miracles and magic and love a genocidal son murdering prick of a God.

Regards
DL

It sounds like you have issues with someone's death and blame God. You have my condolences.

[jimnyc]

Impossible with literalist fools who believe in fantasy, miracles and magic and love a genocidal son murdering prick of a God.

Regards
DL

That's too bad.