Israel accused of war crimes (UK Parliament)

[jafar00]

Some counterbalance to the irrational pro Israeli stuff around at the moment.

Interesting to note that one of the speakers most critical of Israel is Sir Gerald Kaufman, a British Jew.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJWNE83j__k&sns

[Kathianne]

You're really hoping for something to come from propaganda land and everyone following you there:

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1CAHPZY_enUS585US585&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=parliament%20israel%20war%20crimes

What you write and what the headline says makes it look like Parliament passed a resolution or something, which of course is not the case. Then you go on in that sicko prejudiced way you have been taking, mentioning a British Jew in Parliament, that happens to agree with getting rid of Israel.

It's almost like you haven't heard of Jews that aren't really...

[jimnyc]

One for Israel in comparison to thousands and thousands by Hamas over the years.

BUT - IT IS TELLING, Jafar, that you are the first the condemn Israel of war crimes - while denying the endless war crimes from a terror organization. We know which side you support in todays world - Islamic Terrorists, so long as they are fighting jews.

[aboutime]

jafar. You just don't get it...do you?

You keep bringing your obvious hatred, mixed with obvious propaganda based on known Hamas supporters in the U.K. And you are still convinced ALL OF US will drop everything, and become as stupid as you?

[jafar00]

All I am saying, is that you stand alone in your support for the terrorist state.

[Kathianne]

All I am saying, is that you stand alone in your support for the terrorist state.

First part some truth, second is just a lie.

[aboutime]

All I am saying, is that you stand alone in your support for the terrorist state.


Wrong again jafar. I would never support HAMAS. I leave that to you.

[gabosaurus]

Both sides are guilty of war crimes.

[Kathianne]

Both sides are guilty of war crimes.

No, they are not. Israel has not committed war crimes, indeed has been at the forefront of sending aid to those injured.

[aboutime]

No, they are not. Israel has not committed war crimes, indeed has been at the forefront of sending aid to those injured.


Kathianne. Don't let gabby get the best of you. She's just towing the expected, hypocritical, liberal, Democrat, Obama line. According to gabby, and those I mentioned. It would be intolerant as a liberal NOT to blame Israel. While all of them try to pretend how much they claim to support Israel. They do it with crossed-fingers behind their backs. A METHOD Obama uses so well to appease, and avoid insulting his friends.

[Drummond]

Some counterbalance to the irrational pro Israeli stuff around at the moment.

Interesting to note that one of the speakers most critical of Israel is Sir Gerald Kaufman, a British Jew.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJWNE83j__k&sns

Most of the speakers critical of Israel were, and are, LEFT WINGERS who are traditionally far more inclined to take up anti-Israel positions.

As you say, Jafar, Kaufman is a Jew. You neglect, however, to point out that he's also a LEFTIE, even if he IS also a has-been in their ranks. You also neglect to say that he has a long history of making imflammatory remarks, especially in Parliament.

And his ascerbic anti-Israel positions aren't new. He has a history of those as well. This is just the latest in a series of them.

Here, let me 'help' your propaganda efforts ... this, from 2009 ...

http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/01/17/gerald-kaufman-mp-the-lives-of-palestinians-do-not-count/


My parents came to Britain as refugees from Poland. Most of their families were subsequently murdered by the Nazis in the holocaust. My grandmother was ill in bed when the Nazis came to her home town of Staszow. A German soldier shot her dead in her bed.

My grandmother did not die to provide cover for Israeli soldiers murdering Palestinian grandmothers in Gaza. The current Israeli Government ruthlessly and cynically exploit the continuing guilt among gentiles over the slaughter of Jews in the holocaust as justification for their murder of Palestinians. The implication is that Jewish lives are precious, but the lives of Palestinians do not count.

On Sky News a few days ago, the spokeswoman for the Israeli army, Major Leibovich, was asked about the Israeli killing of, at that time, 800 Palestinians—the total is now 1,000. She replied instantly that: “500 of them were militants.”

That was the reply of a Nazi. I suppose that the Jews fighting for their lives in the Warsaw ghetto could have been dismissed as militants.

The Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni asserts that her Government will have no dealings with Hamas, because they are terrorists. Tzipi Livni’s father was Eitan Livni, chief operations officer of the terrorist Irgun Zvai Leumi, who organised the blowing-up of the King David hotel in Jerusalem, in which 91 victims were killed, including four Jews.

Israel was born out of Jewish terrorism ....

And so he prattles on. He does so as a firebrand Socialist, with, as I say, a history of taking anti-Israel stances.

But then, he's just doing what other British Socialists have done in times past. Socialists are adept at selling Israel out ... this, from just two weeks after 9/11 ...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1561975.stm


Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon is refusing to meet British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw because of Israeli anger over Mr Straw's comments on the Middle East.

Mr Straw is due in Israel later on Tuesday after landmark diplomatic talks in Iran.

Officially, Mr Sharon does "not have enough time in his schedule" to meet Mr Straw.

But many in the Israeli Government are infuriated by comments made by Mr Straw published in an Iranian newspaper.

"One of the factors that helps breeds terrorism is the anger which many people in this region feel at events over the years in Palestine, " Mr Straw said.

Ministers see Mr Straw's comments as implying that Israel is to blame for attacks carried out on Israelis.

They also object to use of word "Palestine" with its implication of statehood.

One Israeli minister described Mr Straw's comments as "abominable".

Here's one of UK Labour's more shameful Parliamentary motions. Note what it is; what it seeks to achieve; and the strong support it had from LABOUR, i.e SOCIALIST, Members of Parliament.

http://www.parliament.uk/edm/2008-09/400



BRITISH ARMS SALES TO ISRAEL

That this House is appalled that the Foreign and Commonwealth Office has been licensing increasing arms sales to Israel; registers with extreme disapproval that in the first three months of 2008 Britain exported nearly £19 million worth of weapons to Israel, compared to £7.5 million in the whole of 2007; requests the Government to state the value of British arms sold to Israel from April to December 2008; further requests the Government to list the types of weapons sold to Israel; calls on the Government to halt delivery of further weapons; and urges the Government to investigate whether any of the weapons exported to Israel during 2008 have been used in the attacks on Palestinian civilians in the Gaza Strip.

Thirty (if I've counted correctly) of the 63 signatories were Labour MP's. More were from a Labour Party offshoot, the SDP ... yet more were from our Liberal Party. Not one Conservative supported this. Ah, but LABOUR .. including Kaufman ... were strong supporters.

Jafar must be proud. Aren't you, Jafar ?

[Drummond]

jafar. You just don't get it...do you?

You keep bringing your obvious hatred, mixed with obvious propaganda based on known Hamas supporters in the U.K. And you are still convinced ALL OF US will drop everything, and become as stupid as you?

Quite.

I've just posted evidence of the British Labour Party's hostility towards Israeli interests (Kaufman's a proven part of that). It goes back a long way. In the example I posted of a Parliamentary motion, Labour worked to demonise the UK's export of arms to Israel ... one must presume with the intention in mind of stopping us from helping them with self-defence entirely.

In the meantime, they, like Jafar, work to create sympathy for the Gaza side. Run BY TERRORISTS.

[gabosaurus]

No, they are not. Israel has not committed war crimes, indeed has been at the forefront of sending aid to those injured.

Both sides are guilty of sending missiles into areas occupied by civilians. The recent Israeli ground invasion has resulted in several hundred civilian deaths, including women and children.

[darin]

Only the arab terrorists are to blame. As long as they hide among their "innocents" blood is on their hands. Generally, imo, israel can do no wrong.

[Kathianne]

Both sides are guilty of sending missiles into areas occupied by civilians. The recent Israeli ground invasion has resulted in several hundred civilian deaths, including women and children.

Gabby, your ignorance of current events and history is showing. Truly.

There really are times that both sides are not equally at fault, no matter how much you wish them to be.

[Drummond]

Both sides are guilty of sending missiles into areas occupied by civilians. The recent Israeli ground invasion has resulted in several hundred civilian deaths, including women and children.

You surely know the answer to this ?

Hamas commits its aggressions, firing rocket after rocket into Israeli territory. They don't specifically target military targets. They don't specifically - with any great accuracy, anyway - target civilian areas either, purely and simply because their rockets are relatively primitive.

This means that they don't know who they'll kill, when firing them. BUT THEY LAUNCH THEM ALL THE SAME.

As for the Israeli side, they respond to these attacks. Israel is 'guilty' of having a greater capacity for targeting than Hamas does. Nonetheless .. they are stuck with Hamas's tactic of using human shields from the civilian population to try and protect their rocket launchers and bases.

.. So. Should Israel never defend themselves from attack, should Hamas never incur a cost for its savageries, in total deference to the human shield strategy ?

Since you're keen to foist blame on Israel .. and really, what Leftie wouldn't ?? .. I assume you think that THEY are to blame for Hamas's use of human shields ?

So, there's now been a ground invasion. Possibly an answer to that human shield problem, when rockets originate from the Israeli side ? But that's not good enough for you. STILL, YOU BLAME ISRAEL FOR THEIR ACTIONS ?

[aboutime]

Both sides are guilty of sending missiles into areas occupied by civilians. The recent Israeli ground invasion has resulted in several hundred civilian deaths, including women and children.


Gabby. If what you say is true. Why haven't you taken your elite, wealthy, California, hypocrisy to the nearest airport?

You should buy a ONE-WAY ticket to GAZA, and place yourself....conspicuously...in front of those Israeli's who are targeted by Hamas.

Or, use your hypocrisy to obey Hamas' orders NOT TO HEED the warnings..and become your own, sick Martyr for Hamas as HUMAN SHIELD targets. Just the way YOU and HAMAS like it.

[jafar00]

I'm proud of your countrymen Drummond


Thousands march through London over Gaza crisishttp://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/76391000/jpg/_76391075_76391074.jpg
Thousands of people have marched through central London to call for an end to Israel's ground campaign and air strikes in Gaza.
Protesters marched from Downing Street to the Israeli embassy in Kensington. A police blockade stopped them from gaining access.
Whitehall, Trafalgar Square, Piccadilly and Hyde Park Corner were closed.
More than 300 Palestinians have been killed since 8 July, officials in Gaza report. Five Israelis have died.
Before the event up to 15,000 people were expected to attend. However, the police were not able to verify how many were there.
The event was organised by the Palestine Solidarity Campaign and is part of a national day of action.
Labour MP Diane Abbott was among the speakers to address protesters as they gathered in Whitehall.
"I am here to show solidarity with the people in Gaza," she said.
"We call for an end to the occupation and justice for Palestinians."

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-28383460

[Drummond]

I'm proud of your countrymen Drummond


http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-28383460

I wonder what it precisely is that you're proud of, Jafar ?

Could it be ... their gullibility ?

Then again, how many who attended were Muslims ? How many from the Left wing ?

One person was definitely Leftie .. the Labour politician, Diane Abbott (your link mentions her). Needless to say, as she IS a Leftie, she'll advance political correctness, anything seen to be 'diversity-friendly' .. and of course, anything that socks it to Israel, the supposed 'great bully'.

Basically the same spectrum of people would've turned up, as would've been proud to go on a 'Let's Protect Saddam' march of 2003.

But 'fret not', Jafar. There is perhaps hope. You see, a lot of what's driving those gullible marchers is propaganda from our most dominant media, the BBC. And there ARE people out there willing to expose the BBC's propaganda for what it is.

See ...

http://bbcwatch.org/2014/07/12/what-are-the-dominant-themes-appearing-in-bbc-filmed-reports-from-the-gaza-strip/ (http://bbcwatch.org/2014/07/12/what-are-the-dominant-themes-appearing-in-bbc-filmed-reports-from-the-gaza-strip/)


As Operation Protective Edge progresses, the BBC is increasingly putting the focus of its reporting on the subject of casualties in the Gaza Strip. Notably – although the figures quoted by the BBC come exclusively from Palestinian sources and primarily from the Hamas-run Palestinian Ministry of Health – reports have not taken the trouble to clarify to BBC audiences that neither the figures themselves nor the ratio of civilians to combatants has been independently verified by the BBC.

Since the entry of the first BBC foreign correspondent into the Gaza Strip on July 8th, viewers of BBC television news and visitors to the BBC News website have seen the following filmed reports among others.

July 8th:

Promotion of the inaccurate claim that the shortage of medical supplies in the Gaza Strip is the result of Israeli policy from Yolande Knell.

July 9th:

Two reports by Yolande Knell including one from Beit Hanoun which failed to clarify the use of civilians as human shields.
Another report by Yolande Knell which promotes the lie that Israel deliberately targets civilians.

July 10th:

A report by Yolande Knell in which she amplifies claims made on Hamas-run local TV stations without informing audiences that they have not been independently verified by the BBC.

“…People really are extremely afraid. They’re just watching the local television news which is telling about the number of people killed here in Gaza since Tuesday morning mounting up, saying that most of those are civilians.” [emphasis added]

In the same report, Knell also amplifies an inaccurate claim of ‘collective punishment’ from what she describes as “human rights groups”, but fails to provide audiences with the names of those organisations so that they can verify the relevance and accuracy of such claims for themselves. In addition, she once more fails to inform audiences that the “homes” targeted also served as centres for terrorist activity.

“Israel has been following a policy of targeting the homes it says belong to militants here in Gaza. Because this is a very densely crowded place that often means that because residential areas are targeted, whole families are targeted and you have what’s been described by some human rights groups as collective punishment, but also just other civilians not involved in militant activity getting caught up in this.”

A filmed report by Kevin Connolly, the synopsis of which also quotes Hamas officials without informing readers that the information has not been independently verified by the BBC and does not differentiate between civilians and combatants.

“Palestinian officials in the Gaza Strip say 78 people have been killed in Israeli attacks from the air and the sea this week.”

To his credit, Connolly mentions in that report some of the methods used by Israel to avoid civilian casualties (others include aborting missions and leafleting operational areas).

“Israel says its air-force tries hard to avoid civilian casualties. Before houses are bombed, warnings are telephoned to people inside and a dummy missile is fired before the real one: a so-called ‘knock on the roof’.”

He goes on:

“It doesn’t always work. Israel today called the death of eight civilians in a house in Khan Younis on Tuesday a tragedy, saying the victims had gone back inside too soon after the warning.”

Disappointingly, Connolly fails to inform viewers that Hamas has instructed the local population to ignore warnings from the IDF, encouraging them to act as human shields.

A report by Quentin Sommervile from Khan Younis which includes footage of a local woman saying:

“They didn’t warn us. […] It was the first time they hit a house without any warning.”

Sommerville adds:

“The Israeli military usually gives advance notice of an attack. If they did here, the Haj family didn’t receive it.”

Again, no effort is made to inform BBC audiences of Hamas’ calls to civilians not to heed Israeli warnings or of the significant fact that in this particular case, that instruction was issued using the Palestinian National Authority logo due to the establishment of the PUG at the beginning of June.

July 11th:

A filmed report narrated by Tim Wilcox with no effort made to clarify to viewers how many of the casualties were terrorists.

“The deaths of two Palestinians in an Israeli air-raid on a camp in central Gaza has brought the total number of people killed in the conflict to 100 in just four days. Overnight another five people were killed when a three-storey house in the southern town of Rafah was flattened. Militants have fired more rockets at Tel Aviv in the last few hours. No Israelis have so far been killed since the conflict began.”

A filmed report using amateur footage, the synopsis to which as it appears on the BBC News website does not clarify that the source of the information given is Hamas or that the BBC has not independently verified it and does not make any distinction between civilian and combatant casualties.
“More than 100 people have died in the Israeli air strikes on Gaza, Palestinian sources say.”

A filmed report by Jeremy Bowen, who arrived in the Gaza Strip on the morning of the same day. The synopsis to the version of that report appearing on the BBC News website’s Middle East page once again fails to distinguish between civilian and combatant casualties and neglects to inform audiences that the figures have not been independently verified by the BBC.

“More than 100 people have died in the Israeli air strikes in the territory, Palestinian sources say.”

Failing to point out that the Gaza Health Ministry is run by Hamas and that the BBC has not verified its claims independently, Bowen informs viewers:

“More than half of over 100 people killed in Gaza by Israeli raids were women and children according to the Health Ministry.”

... and so it goes on .....

I can attest to how determined the BBC is to pile on the emphasis of 'mass suffering' on the Gazan / Palestinian side. We get such reports nightly. And, Jafar, you see from this (... though you'd much prefer NOT to ...) how true and proper balance is thrown out the window in the effort.

The BBC's propaganda is so Leftie, Jafar, that they might as well be a Hamas mouthpiece.

So this is why many British buy into the sort of outrageous rot YOU are pleased to peddle to us, Jafar. But .. as you can see, some ARE alert to what they're doing.

'Sorry' about that, Jafar ... :rolleyes:

[Daniyel]

I wonder what it precisely is that you're proud of, Jafar ?

Could it be ... their gullibility ?

Then again, how many who attended were Muslims ? How many from the Left wing ?

One person was definitely Leftie .. the Labour politician, Diane Abbott (your link mentions her). Needless to say, as she IS a Leftie, she'll advance political correctness, anything seen to be 'diversity-friendly' .. and of course, anything that socks it to Israel, the supposed 'great bully'.

Basically the same spectrum of people would've turned up, as would've been proud to go on a 'Let's Protect Saddam' march of 2003.

But 'fret not', Jafar. There is perhaps hope. You see, a lot of what's driving those gullible marchers is propaganda from our most dominant media, the BBC. And there ARE people out there willing to expose the BBC's propaganda for what it is.

See ...

http://bbcwatch.org/2014/07/12/what-are-the-dominant-themes-appearing-in-bbc-filmed-reports-from-the-gaza-strip/ (http://bbcwatch.org/2014/07/12/what-are-the-dominant-themes-appearing-in-bbc-filmed-reports-from-the-gaza-strip/)



... and so it goes on .....

I can attest to how determined the BBC is to pile on the emphasis of 'mass suffering' on the Gazan / Palestinian side. We get such reports nightly. And, Jafar, you see from this (... though you'd much prefer NOT to ...) how true and proper balance is thrown out the window in the effort.

The BBC's propaganda is so Leftie, Jafar, that they might as well be a Hamas mouthpiece.

So this is why many British buy into the sort of outrageous rot YOU are pleased to peddle to us, Jafar. But .. as you can see, some ARE alert to what they're doing.

'Sorry' about that, Jafar ... :rolleyes:
Ouch :laugh:
Like I said Jafar that just by reading the death toll everyone assume Israel committing awful genocide and war crimes and what else not, but don't hesitate to make a decision, go and make sure you heard everything and considered every detail to the very end of it.

[aboutime]

JAFAR IS PROUD TO SUPPORT, AND BE...JUST LIKE OTHER IGNORANT TERRORISTS.

Wonder why jafar ignores the war crimes of HAMAS?

Let's hear your newest propaganda excuse jafar. YOU do have one. Don'tcha?