69 years ago today

[Little-Acorn]

On Aug. 5, 1945, the first atomic bomb ever used in warfare, was dropped on Hiroshima, Japan. Approx. 40,000 people died in Hiroshima that day, with as many as 60,000 more dying over the next year from injuries, disease, radiation etc. Three days later, another atomic bomb was dropped on Nagasaki, with similar casualties.

Analysts estimate that the abrupt end of the war caused by the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, saved approx. 500,000 American casualties, and a million or more Japanese casualties, that would otherwise have occurred in the planned invasion of the Japanese home islands.

[aboutime]

Literally. The DAY that forever changed the World. Though it was used to end a war and save lives.

Can anyone honestly say it did?

[DLT]

Literally. The DAY that forever changed the World. Though it was used to end a war and save lives.

Can anyone honestly say it did?

Can anyone honestly say that it did what? End a war? Yes. Save lives? Yes. Forever changed the World? Absolutely....but the world is ever-changing, as you well know. And evil adapts and changes right along with it.

[red state]

I agree with AT.....it has not changed a thing, saved lives (since then) or prevented wars. The reason being is a culture that is too "civilized" to use it so out of fear of being labeled mass murderers or other names, we refuse to use our BEST weapon as a deterrent. Because of this, we have enemies who do NOT fear us so they continue to cause us harm.

I agree with Xenalee, in that evil does adapt but it is our weakness that has allowed any so-called adaptation. If anything, our enemies have adapted by introducing the "ENEMIES FROM WITHIN" as means to defeat us without firing a shot. The USSR predicted as much and dog if they weren't spot on. Liberalism............the death of AMERICA.

[red state]

My grandfather, (born Feb.1919 / killed in FEB. '94) always told me how grateful he was that we dropped the bomb. He was a Sgt. and fought in the many jungles of the SP and after losing many friends (including his CO/LT) he was left to lead and was surely running out of men. The fever, lack of provisions and replacements were taking a toll on them all and although he thought highly of the oriental people (including his enemy) he was glad that the bomb stopped the war and saved that many others who would have surely died.

[NightTrain]

I disagree, AT.

I believe a conventional war would have been fought during the Cold War years between the USA and USSR if there had not been Nukes that both sides were afraid of unleashing.

Using these weapons saved lives in WWII and probably saved many lives by reducing direct confrontations between major players afterwards - I can't think of one direct conflict between nuclear armed countries since the advent of nukes.

Prior to WWII, there were conflicts and bloodshed between major powers all the time.

[NightTrain]

My grandfather, (born Feb.1919 / killed in FEB. '94) always told me how grateful he was that we dropped the bomb. He was a Sgt. and fought in the many jungles of the SP and after losing many friends (including his CO/LT) he was left to lead and was surely running out of men. The fever, lack of provisions and replacements were taking a toll on them all and although he thought highly of the oriental people (including his enemy) he was glad that the bomb stopped the war and saved that many others who would have surely died.


My Grandfather felt the same way. He won the Purple Heart on Okinawa and a few other medals as a Marine Sergeant, and told me that everyone was dreading the invasion of Japan - which was the ultimate goal. It was going to be an extremely bloody affair and casualty estimates were astronomical.

He and all his fellow Marines were relieved when the world learned there was a game-changer weapon that leveled cities.

[Caliban]

If I were in Truman's shoes I would have made exactly the same decision.

The conventional fire bombing of Tokyo killed even MORE people than the Hiroshima bomb did.

Death by fire doesn't become magically more sinister and terrible just because it's nuclear.

[red state]

Nightrain......MAYBE. I say this because it seems that we have gone about business as usual since then and I can't imagine the numbers of those who have died in wars since then. I would agree that FEWER may have died but this would be due to other technologies and war strategies BUT if our enemies of Korea, Vietnam and war with islam feared our using nukes, we'd have MUCH less strife from them. This is a good topic for debate and in a way, I'm glad that we've decided as humanity to let the cob webs settle. We have better technologies that is safer to use BUT we don't even use them as we should (or as often as we should). We are simply too PC to be the BAD @$$es that we all know that we can be.

[red state]

My Grandfather felt the same way. He won the Purple Heart on Okinawa and a few other medals as a Marine Sergeant, and told me that everyone was dreading the invasion of Japan - which was the ultimate goal. It was going to be an extremely bloody affair and casualty estimates were astronomical.

He and all his fellow Marines were relieved when the world learned there was a game-changer weapon that leveled cities.


Wow! Mine too!!! EXACTLY! with the exception that my grandfather was in the ARMY. They spent so much time out in the bush that he said their clothes LITERALLY rotted off of their bodies. He had so many stories.....wish I had recording him telling them. Too bad I didn't. I ended up with my gramp's old 7.7 Jap rifle (with bayonet, original sites that adjust and full metal jacket cartridges) but my aunt (his youngest of 7 kids) got his large Jap flag with all his surviving buddies names on it as well as the purple heart and other medals. I always wondered why he never contacted his friends......many of which had their ph #'s and addresses on that old Jap flag but he never answered. Perhaps he was afraid to find out who had died over the years or something.

Great to know....and THANKS!!!

[NightTrain]

Wow! Mine too!!! EXACTLY! with the exception that my grandfather was in the ARMY. They spent so much time out in the bush that he said their clothes LITERALLY rotted off of their bodies. He had so many stories.....wish I had recording him telling them. Too bad I didn't. I ended up with my gramp's old 7.7 Jap rifle (with bayonet, original sites that adjust and full metal jacket cartridges) but my aunt (his youngest of 7 kids) got his large Jap flag with all his surviving buddies names on it as well as the purple heart and other medals. I always wondered why he never contacted his friends......many of which had their ph #'s and addresses on that old Jap flag but he never answered. Perhaps he was afraid to find out who had died over the years or something.

Great to know....and THANKS!!!

Very cool! Can you post a pic of that 7.7 rifle? I'd like to see that.

Gramps had one of the originals of that famous shot of the Marines raising the flag over Iwo Jima, I think he said there were 7 of them total, and he traded something like a Jap rifle for one of those pictures from the guy who took that picture.

All his war memorabilia were in a large box in one of those tin sheds, behind his house here in Wasilla in 1988. We had a big snowstorm hit in the Spring, and the wet, heavy snow collapsed the roof on it and immediately melted. It saturated everything and ruined that picture - he was devastated. I didn't realize how big of a loss it was for him at the time, because I was 17. But that thing was priceless.

[red state]

Very cool! Can you post a pic of that 7.7 rifle? I'd like to see that.

Gramps had one of the originals of that famous shot of the Marines raising the flag over Iwo Jima, I think he said there were 7 of them total, and he traded something like a Jap rifle for one of those pictures from the guy who took that picture.

All his war memorabilia were in a large box in one of those tin sheds, behind his house here in Wasilla in 1988. We had a big snowstorm hit in the Spring, and the wet, heavy snow collapsed the roof on it and immediately melted. It saturated everything and ruined that picture - he was devastated. I didn't realize how big of a loss it was for him at the time, because I was 17. But that thing was priceless.

I should have a photo of the Jap rifle somewhere but if I don't, I'll have to dig the actual rifle up out of my "hide-E-hole" I made after B.O. got in office. Although I haven't rifle hunted or shot any in a number of years (bow hunt only) I would hate to see any of my Brownings or the Jap get cut in to pieces as they have done in other less free Nations where only the wealthy and elite may have them.

I still remember how proud my grandfather was when we were "indian sneaking", as he called it, and I killed a running coyote with it in one, quick draw. He said that was one of the BEST shots he'd ever seen. I didn't have the heart to tell him that it was PURE luck. I am VERY good with my bow and my browning (with a scope) but can't hit the side of a barn without sights. HA!!!! A doe had come running up on us and by the way she was acting, I knew something was chasing her (hopefully a heavy racked buck) but after she bolted....a coyote appeared where she had been standing. It didn't take him long to do an aboutface but I drew quickly and shot. I saw his back end flip over and after that, received a very painful slap on the back as my grandfather spit his tobacco. Once he was cleared of the tobacco, he praised me and gave out a loud chuckle. When we walked up to the coyote, I had hit him in the rear and it came out the chest. This was with our personal loads (we load our own ammo). I shot a very thick sycamore with one of the WWII full metal jackets and it went clean through. I just had to find out cuz PA (my grandfather told me about that thing penetrating his tractor's box blade................and you should have seen the old, black 50something model chevy. It looked like the aftermath of Bonnie and Clyde. HA!!!!

Let me check........

[namvet]

http://i58.tinypic.com/igma8z.jpg

she delivered the "gadget" to Tinian island in the Marianas

on JUL 30 At a few minutes past midnight on July 30 two Japanese torpedoes tore into the side of the USS Indianapolis, igniting an explosion that broke the ship in two. It took only twelve minutes for the ship to dip her bow, roll to starboard and slip beneath the sea. Of her crew of 1,196, an estimated 900 survived the explosion. of those only 317 survived.

[red state]

You know, I have found MANY 6.5 cal. Jap rifles and they are very cheap to buy but I have not found many 7.7 cal. If I have, I can't recall where. I wonder why 6.5's are so numerous? They are GREAT guns and have twice (if not 3 times the riflings) that our men had in WWII. Pa really liked this rifle and you know who was his favorite grandson, HA!!!! When I got this rifle, the bayonet was not workable or usable. I worked it carefully for weeks so as not to break the spring and all. It has original parts and I freed it up one day and put it on. The stock had a longer one that my PA made for it (Japs are very short armed) but I took that off. If it had a brass butt, I don't have it any more. Probably got tossed when the stock was modified.

I couldn't find the photo of my son with this rifle and the deer he killed with it but here are some photos of the rifle (as I once displayed it), my "PA" and a few of his daughters.............including my mom who passed away in '12. That man had one son and SIX (6) daughters. Tough man. HA!!!


http://www.ifreelance.com/graphics/handlers/sampleimage.ashx?v=1&id=314035&si=1&sv=1&mw=695&mh=500&rmc=35


http://www.ifreelance.com/graphics/handlers/sampleimage.ashx?v=1&id=314036&si=1&sv=1&mw=695&mh=500&rmc=35
The gal to "PA's" left is his youngest (who got all the medals. They will now go to her only child (a son) since she passed away this June.
The photo of my PA was taken just before he was killed. Tyr knows that story and I really rather not repeat it today.....too sad.



http://www.ifreelance.com/graphics/handlers/sampleimage.ashx?v=1&id=314034&si=1&sv=1&mw=695&mh=500&rmc=35

This is my mom (the middle child) who lost her battle to cancer in '12. out of 14 aunts and uncles.....I have HALF that have passed away recently.

[red state]

she delivered the "gadget" to Tinian island in the Marianas

on JUL 30 At a few minutes past midnight on July 30 two Japanese torpedoes tore into the side of the USS Indianapolis, igniting an explosion that broke the ship in two. It took only twelve minutes for the ship to dip her bow, roll to starboard and slip beneath the sea. Of her crew of 1,196, an estimated 900 survived the explosion. of those only 317 survived.

Yes, I believe many of the survivors were the only ones that the sharks didn't get..........what a bad way to go. HEROES!!!!

Ya'll please let me know if the photos didn't come thru. They want be there long as I'll probably remove them from the original source.

[Jeff]

Yes, I believe many of the survivors were the only ones that the sharks didn't get..........what a bad way to go. HEROES!!!!

Ya'll please let me know if the photos didn't come thru. They want be there long as I'll probably remove them from the original source.

Photo's look great Red

[aboutime]

http://i58.tinypic.com/igma8z.jpg

she delivered the "gadget" to Tinian island in the Marianas

on JUL 30 At a few minutes past midnight on July 30 two Japanese torpedoes tore into the side of the USS Indianapolis, igniting an explosion that broke the ship in two. It took only twelve minutes for the ship to dip her bow, roll to starboard and slip beneath the sea. Of her crew of 1,196, an estimated 900 survived the explosion. of those only 317 survived.


Thanks namvet. Not many people even knew about the Indianapolis at the time. Not even the navy knew of her special mission. I believe I heard, several years ago. The navy tried to lay blame on the Skipper for not ZIG ZAGGING. Not sure about the whole story, but most Americans had no idea what the Indianapolis was, or ever heard about her till after the war.

[namvet]

Thanks namvet. Not many people even knew about the Indianapolis at the time. Not even the navy knew of her special mission. I believe I heard, several years ago. The navy tried to lay blame on the Skipper for not ZIG ZAGGING. Not sure about the whole story, but most Americans had no idea what the Indianapolis was, or ever heard about her till after the war.

I would say a very limited number knew about her mission in the Army and Navy. she did transport Army personnel on the trip. this sinking was a back page story here because of war's end. I don't think anyone knew about it till the Movie Jaws came out. one of the survivors confirmed the story in Jaws was factual.
the so called zig zag pattern was useless and proven so at McVays court martial by the I-58's CO. the prosecution was relying on his testimony to convict McVay but it back fired. he said the maneuver made no diff. it just required an adjustment in firing time. the defense also put a USN sub CO who testified the same. bringing this Japanese sub CO back to the states to testify outraged the public, the media and politicians.
.............after the bomb was delivered the Indy was told to sail south to Guam for orders. the OIC there told him to sail to the Philippine sea for gunnery practice with another cruiser before getting back in the war. what he didn't tell McVay was 2 or 3 days earlier a US destroyer had been sunk on the same course he was sending the Indy. also she didn't have any sub detection equipment and McVay requested an escort. request denied. had an escort been provided it could rescued the men in the sea and called for help. so IMO the OIC was Culpable here.
.........one of the officers who died in the disaster was the son of a wealthy industrial businessman back east. and by god he wanted someone to pay. he had political connections in DC and laid it on them. they had no idea what to do so they dumped it on the Navy. who said there's only one responsible. the first, by law McVay. so that's the story i read as to why he was singled out. there's the scapegoat. there's a lot more to this story

Hollywood made a movie. called mission of the shark (1991)

the best doc I saw was called ocean of fear and give a different view of the shark attacks


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yd-oYG7RuT4