PDA

View Full Version : tubs and shower stalls



namvet
08-27-2014, 11:20 AM
what a drag. the 12" extension saves on my back and knees and all that scrubbing. and does the job in a fraction of the time it used to. I also have wire brush's for grill cleaning

http://i62.tinypic.com/2zgb72s.jpg

god I luv power tools


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezgXqyvfzUs

:coffee:

Gunny
08-27-2014, 11:42 AM
I've got a couple of those. 12 and 18". They help you drill through a wall without having to measure on both sides and get it right.

Got to say though, that cordless looks pretty weak.:laugh:

namvet
08-27-2014, 02:06 PM
I've got a couple of those. 12 and 18". They help you drill through a wall without having to measure on both sides and get it right.

Got to say though, that cordless looks pretty weak.:laugh:

looks are deceiving. plenty of torque. its 1/2" to. its just for indoor use

Gunny
08-27-2014, 02:19 PM
looks are deceiving. plenty of torque. its 1/2" to. its just for indoor use

Just :poke: at you. I do commercial construction as an electrician. I know you probably don't need the high speed low drag top of the line cordless for home use. I figured it was 1/2" because of the size of the hole saw. Kind of hard to get that on a 3/8s.

And I DO love the extensions. I've got an 18" 1/4" bit that has saved me a LOT of work. But when the spouse used to say "bathroom" I would point to the patch over my pocket that said "electrician". :laugh:

namvet
08-27-2014, 02:36 PM
Just :poke: at you. I do commercial construction as an electrician. I know you probably don't need the high speed low drag top of the line cordless for home use. I figured it was 1/2" because of the size of the hole saw. Kind of hard to get that on a 3/8s.

And I DO love the extensions. I've got an 18" 1/4" bit that has saved me a LOT of work. But when the spouse used to say "bathroom" I would point to the patch over my pocket that said "electrician". :laugh:

I live in a community now and they do all the maintainence. in and out. so i enjoy sitting on the patio and watch them do the repairs and cut the lawn. got a problem?? dial up em up. this is just for routine inside cleaning. but yeah extensions are great. in my case i can do it standing up. back and knee problems are catching up with me. its a bitch gettin' old :laugh:

Gunny
08-27-2014, 02:43 PM
I live in a community now and they do all the maintainence. in and out. so i enjoy sitting on the patio and watch them do the repairs and cut the lawn. got a problem?? dial up em up. this is just for routine inside cleaning. but yeah extensions are great. in my case i can do it standing up. back and knee problems are catching up with me. its a bitch gettin' old :laugh:

As I sit here, I have on a knee brace, ankle brace, and elbow wrap and am dodging a hip replacement. Ironman's gonna envy me pretty soon. So I hear ya' loud and clear.:laugh:

I just refuse to back down from the position I've been put in. I don't lose. 'Nother story though. :)

NightTrain
08-27-2014, 02:56 PM
Those extensions are life savers. I have a few of them, too.

Cordless have really come a long way, I have all DeWalt stuff. A few of my coworkers have all Milwaukee and look down on DeWalt, but they can go to hell! :laugh: My favorite is a lightweight cordless impact 3/8 gun, it's been very impressive. I drove a 5/8" x 5" lag screw into a telephone pole with it down in Ketchikan a while back without drilling a pilot hole. I didn't think she'd do it, but it did. It was pretty hot afterwards, though!

Didn't know you were an electrician, Gunny. I'm on the Telecom side of the house, but we've got a few Sparkies on staff - I don't like playing with AC. That shit hurts. Not that 300 amps from the battery bank won't fry you quickly, but DC is a bit more... predictable... in my view.

namvet
08-27-2014, 03:35 PM
As I sit here, I have on a knee brace, ankle brace, and elbow wrap and am dodging a hip replacement. Ironman's gonna envy me pretty soon. So I hear ya' loud and clear.:laugh:

I just refuse to back down from the position I've been put in. I don't lose. 'Nother story though. :)

stairs were becoming hard for me to take. mowing the lawn snow removal and and other shit i used to do. had to start farming all this crap out. so the wife and I decided to sell our home and move to this no maintenance home. I now have a ranch style with no stairs. BTY i have a painful hip problem to. so move over.

:coffee:

namvet
08-27-2014, 04:01 PM
Those extensions are life savers. I have a few of them, too.

Cordless have really come a long way, I have all DeWalt stuff. A few of my coworkers have all Milwaukee and look down on DeWalt, but they can go to hell! :laugh: My favorite is a lightweight cordless impact 3/8 gun, it's been very impressive. I drove a 5/8" x 5" lag screw into a telephone pole with it down in Ketchikan a while back without drilling a pilot hole. I didn't think she'd do it, but it did. It was pretty hot afterwards, though!

Didn't know you were an electrician, Gunny. I'm on the Telecom side of the house, but we've got a few Sparkies on staff - I don't like playing with AC. That shit hurts. Not that 300 amps from the battery bank won't fry you quickly, but DC is a bit more... predictable... in my view.

http://i59.tinypic.com/wmi61i.jpg

when I worked for Sony this was the average size we used. 2.4V but the damned thing has a lotta torque


Compact and lightweight
6-stage clutch
Easily converts from straight to pistol form for accurate drilling
Capable of 2 ft.-lbs. (26 in.-lbs.) of torque
2-speed gear box (0-200/0-400 RPM)
The large rocker-switch is conveniently placed within reach of your thumb and changes drill or driving from forward to reverse
Multi-stage clutch plus drill setting prevents overtightening
The ergonomic design ensures drill driver is well balanced and easy to operate for long periods of time without fatigue
Fully charges battery in 15 minutes

they also made extensions for these :laugh:

Gunny
08-27-2014, 04:01 PM
Those extensions are life savers. I have a few of them, too.

Cordless have really come a long way, I have all DeWalt stuff. A few of my coworkers have all Milwaukee and look down on DeWalt, but they can go to hell! :laugh: My favorite is a lightweight cordless impact 3/8 gun, it's been very impressive. I drove a 5/8" x 5" lag screw into a telephone pole with it down in Ketchikan a while back without drilling a pilot hole. I didn't think she'd do it, but it did. It was pretty hot afterwards, though!

Didn't know you were an electrician, Gunny. I'm on the Telecom side of the house, but we've got a few Sparkies on staff - I don't like playing with AC. That shit hurts. Not that 300 amps from the battery bank won't fry you quickly, but DC is a bit more... predictable... in my view.

I have Milwaukee. But i was more of a defensive move. Everyone has Dewalt. But you can't steal my Milwaukee stuff and make your Dewalt work. :laugh: Nowadays it's about half n half from what I've seen and I never had too much problem with either brand.

I don't "play" with AC. I know what I'm doing. I haven't been hit in over 12 years. As long as you know it's the amps that'll kick your ass and not the volts, you're ahead of the game. I've been hit with 277 volts ungrounded. Just a shock. WHen I was a rookie, I got hit by it grounded and got knocked off an 8 footer. That happened only once. That's Rule #1: make sure you aren't grounded. That rule is above all others. Electricity is going to ground and it has no problem using you to do it.

I know I do stuff that would make the average person freak. I'll work stuff hot because I know how. My grandfather was an electrician, btw. ;) In no way do I endorse the average joe to do the same. That shit will kill. Turn it off. Lot easier and quicker. Be safe, dude.

And I thought about running cable, but then I thought about all the attics I'd be in and just scratched that plan.:laugh:

Gunny
08-27-2014, 04:07 PM
stairs were becoming hard for me to take. mowing the lawn snow removal and and other shit i used to do. had to start farming all this crap out. so the wife and I decided to sell our home and move to this no maintenance home. I now have a ranch style with no stairs. BTY i have a painful hip problem to. so move over.

:coffee:

The ladders are killing me. What's REALLY sad is, I'm 54, damaged all over, and I can still out work the 20 years olds. I kept getting ticked off when I went back to work because I couldn't do what I used to be able to. Then I looked around. Pathetic. I was out-working them anyway.

But yeah, I've lived hard and it catches up eventually.

I'd do it again the same damned way. I had a blast. :)

namvet
08-27-2014, 04:17 PM
I have Milwaukee. But i was more of a defensive move. Everyone has Dewalt. But you can't steal my Milwaukee stuff and make your Dewalt work. :laugh: Nowadays it's about half n half from what I've seen and I never had too much problem with either brand.

I don't "play" with AC. I know what I'm doing. I haven't been hit in over 12 years. As long as you know it's the amps that'll kick your ass and not the volts, you're ahead of the game. I've been hit with 277 volts ungrounded. Just a shock. WHen I was a rookie, I got hit by it grounded and got knocked off an 8 footer. That happened only once. That's Rule #1: make sure you aren't grounded. That rule is above all others. Electricity is going to ground and it has no problem using you to do it.

I know I do stuff that would make the average person freak. I'll work stuff hot because I know how. My grandfather was an electrician, btw. ;) In no way do I endorse the average joe to do the same. That shit will kill. Turn it off. Lot easier and quicker. Be safe, dude.

And I thought about running cable, but then I thought about all the attics I'd be in and just scratched that plan.:laugh:

i never worked with high AC. just what come's out the wall. I did most of my work with DC. including TV's that ran as high as 27-35KV. had to work it under full power so every so often I got bit. but the side effect was great. cleared up my sinus's. I could breathe again

NightTrain
08-27-2014, 04:19 PM
Oh, I haven't pulled residential cable since I was an apprentice... that crap got old in a hurry. These days I do integrations and play mostly with fiber & microwave. Last time I got bit was back in my apprentice days and I was on top of a 10 footer and the sparky apprentice had left live 277 without the wire nuts on the stripped ends. I leaned over the frame of the drop ceiling and that 277 went to work... for some reason that particular voltage hurts worse than the others.

The sparky apprentice saw it happen and thought it was funny, and he almost got a speed tune - I started coming off my ladder and his foreman grabbed him and steered him out of the room. He found me later after I cooled off and apologized.

I do hot work on DC as well... many of the cell sites we're working on can't go offline because of 911 traffic. I do it but I don't care for it and we turn it down whenever possible - shit happens and I try not to tempt fate. I have a nice set of hot tools and the mandatory rubber mat - the company credit card is generous whenever I want more tools. They never question safety.

namvet
08-27-2014, 04:23 PM
Oh, I haven't pulled residential cable since I was an apprentice... that crap got old in a hurry. These days I do integrations and play mostly with fiber & microwave. Last time I got bit was back in my apprentice days and I was on top of a 10 footer and the sparky apprentice had left live 277 without the wire nuts on the stripped ends. I leaned over the frame of the drop ceiling and that 277 went to work... for some reason that particular voltage hurts worse than the others.

The sparky apprentice saw it happen and thought it was funny, and he almost got a speed tune - I started coming off my ladder and his foreman grabbed him and steered him out of the room. He found me later after I cooled off and apologized.

I do hot work on DC as well... many of the cell sites we're working on can't go offline because of 911 traffic. I do it but I don't care for it and we turn it down whenever possible - shit happens and I try not to tempt fate. I have a nice set of hot tools and the mandatory rubber mat - the company credit card is generous whenever I want more tools. They never question safety.

its not the voltage you feel but the current. and I felt my share

Gunny
08-27-2014, 04:36 PM
Oh, I haven't pulled residential cable since I was an apprentice... that crap got old in a hurry. These days I do integrations and play mostly with fiber & microwave. Last time I got bit was back in my apprentice days and I was on top of a 10 footer and the sparky apprentice had left live 277 without the wire nuts on the stripped ends. I leaned over the frame of the drop ceiling and that 277 went to work... for some reason that particular voltage hurts worse than the others.

The sparky apprentice saw it happen and thought it was funny, and he almost got a speed tune - I started coming off my ladder and his foreman grabbed him and steered him out of the room. He found me later after I cooled off and apologized.

I do hot work on DC as well... many of the cell sites we're working on can't go offline because of 911 traffic. I do it but I don't care for it and we turn it down whenever possible - shit happens and I try not to tempt fate. I have a nice set of hot tools and the mandatory rubber mat - the company credit card is generous whenever I want more tools. They never question safety.

277 and 208 or 240 hurt worse because they blow you off. However, 120 will kill you quicker. Because it only "tingles" and you think you can handle it, you're not as afraid. 277 is one leg of 480 volts. That neutral will knock you flat. It's "dirty" voltage. The return amps from all the damned lights attached to it. THAT sucks.

I don't have any "hot" tools. I've seen how you cable guys have a pouch full of useless tool. :laugh: Give me 9" linesman's, a 10-in-one and I can do most anything. Of course you KNOW I have the duct tape and tie-wire on hand too!:laugh:

NightTrain
08-27-2014, 05:08 PM
I guess 'Cable Guy' is better than the usual "Commie" (communications) I get called by the smartasses as we're engaging in the usual banter. Knuckle-dragger and Narrowback phases them about as much as the Commie digs do to me - zero.

We had an inspector talk one of my coworkers into changing out a lug on the end of a cable running into an old school Nortel power bay - it was a 1-hole lug and he wanted a 2-hole because code had changed in the last 20 years since it had been installed. It wasn't even part of our scope. There was no room to work in there, and I told him to tell the Inspector to fuck off... but he did it anyway to make him happy.

He got the nut off the lug, and it slipped and fell onto the hot bar inside, and naturally shorted out and began glowing. The 300 amp breaker didn't trip. So he quickly stuck his 8" Klein screwdriver in there to knock that stupid nut off the bar, and suddenly we were blinded by a lightning bolt and deafened by the blast. It sounded like a 12-gauge going off in a closet. I thought he was dead for sure.

When I could see again, he was still standing there, blinking and holding the handle of that screwdriver - that Klein had vaporized with nary a trace of the steel. And that damn breaker was still closed.

Then our phones started ringing, because suddenly no one on this network had service in the middle of Anchorage. It seems a few cards had suddenly vaporized internal circuits and had a few air gaps. The Inspector got his ass chewed for it, and our boss told us of the virtues of sticking with the scope of work. There was right under $100,000 worth of electronics that fried over something that didn't need to be done and $15,000 in fines for an unscheduled outage, all paid by the Inspector's employer.

We ended up with a few hours of overtime to bring her back online, I was just thankful I didn't witness my buddy's death.

Gunny
08-27-2014, 05:25 PM
I guess 'Cable Guy' is better than the usual "Commie" (communications) I get called by the smartasses as we're engaging in the usual banter. Knuckle-dragger and Narrowback phases them about as much as the Commie digs do to me - zero.

We had an inspector talk one of my coworkers into changing out a lug on the end of a cable running into an old school Nortel power bay - it was a 1-hole lug and he wanted a 2-hole because code had changed in the last 20 years since it had been installed. It wasn't even part of our scope. There was no room to work in there, and I told him to tell the Inspector to fuck off... but he did it anyway to make him happy.

He got the nut off the lug, and it slipped and fell onto the hot bar inside, and naturally shorted out and began glowing. The 300 amp breaker didn't trip. So he quickly stuck his 8" Klein screwdriver in there to knock that stupid nut off the bar, and suddenly we were blinded by a lightning bolt and deafened by the blast. It sounded like a 12-gauge going off in a closet. I thought he was dead for sure.

When I could see again, he was still standing there, blinking and holding the handle of that screwdriver - that Klein had vaporized with nary a trace of the steel. And that damn breaker was still closed.

Then our phones started ringing, because suddenly no one on this network had service in the middle of Anchorage. It seems a few cards had suddenly vaporized internal circuits and had a few air gaps. The Inspector got his ass chewed for it, and our boss told us of the virtues of sticking with the scope of work. There was right under $100,000 worth of electronics that fried over something that didn't need to be done and $15,000 in fines for an unscheduled outage, all paid by the Inspector's employer.

We ended up with a few hours of overtime to bring her back online, I was just thankful I didn't witness my buddy's death.

Okay. Can you say "I did everything wrong by the numbers"? :laugh:

!. That lug is not in your scope. Period. That's my job.

2. Doesn't matter a damn what current code is if pre-existing code allowed it, and you aren't changing out the entire service.

3. Your partner was a dipshit. :laugh: Putting a screwdriver into a panel that is shorting out is about as smart as pulling the clip and pin from a grenade and sticking it in your pocket. You get the f- away and pick up the pieces later. I've seen too many idiots buck phases with a screwdriver and blow themselves up. And I ain't talking a singe phase house panel. You buck phases at 480 volts guess where you're going? If you live. The ER.

That inspector was out of line and y'all aren't even licensed to do high voltage electrical. He was in the wrong. I change lugs in the panel. You don't. I suspend the ground. You don't. What an idiot. You could have had his license for that.

NightTrain
08-27-2014, 05:39 PM
Okay. Can you say "I did everything wrong by the numbers"? :laugh:

!. That lug is not in your scope. Period. That's my job.

2. Doesn't matter a damn what current code is if pre-existing code allowed it, and you aren't changing out the entire service.

3. Your partner was a dipshit. :laugh: Putting a screwdriver into a panel that is shorting out is about as smart as pulling the clip and pin from a grenade and sticking it in your pocket. You get the f- away and pick up the pieces later. I've seen too many idiots buck phases with a screwdriver and blow themselves up. And I ain't talking a singe phase house panel. You buck phases at 480 volts guess where you're going? If you live. The ER.

That inspector was out of line and y'all aren't even licensed to do high voltage electrical. He was in the wrong. I change lugs in the panel. You don't. I suspend the ground. You don't. What an idiot. You could have had his license for that.

Yep, I agree on all counts.

The good news is that these days my coworker has no qualms with telling an overzealous inspector to fuck off. And when I tell him I don't think it's a good idea, he listens.

red state
08-27-2014, 10:36 PM
http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by NightTrain http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=701044#post701044)
I guess 'Cable Guy' is better than the usual "Commie" (communications) I get called by the smartasses as we're engaging in the usual banter. Knuckle-dragger and Narrowback phases them about as much as the Commie digs do to me - zero.

We had an inspector talk one of my coworkers into changing out a lug on the end of a cable running into an old school Nortel power bay - it was a 1-hole lug and he wanted a 2-hole because code had changed in the last 20 years since it had been installed. It wasn't even part of our scope. There was no room to work in there, and I told him to tell the Inspector to fuck off... but he did it anyway to make him happy.

He got the nut off the lug, and it slipped and fell onto the hot bar inside, and naturally shorted out and began glowing. The 300 amp breaker didn't trip. So he quickly stuck his 8" Klein screwdriver in there to knock that stupid nut off the bar, and suddenly we were blinded by a lightning bolt and deafened by the blast. It sounded like a 12-gauge going off in a closet. I thought he was dead for sure.

When I could see again, he was still standing there, blinking and holding the handle of that screwdriver - that Klein had vaporized with nary a trace of the steel. And that damn breaker was still closed.

Then our phones started ringing, because suddenly no one on this network had service in the middle of Anchorage. It seems a few cards had suddenly vaporized internal circuits and had a few air gaps. The Inspector got his ass chewed for it, and our boss told us of the virtues of sticking with the scope of work. There was right under $100,000 worth of electronics that fried over something that didn't need to be done and $15,000 in fines for an unscheduled outage, all paid by the Inspector's employer.

We ended up with a few hours of overtime to bring her back online, I was just thankful I didn't witness my buddy's death.



GUNNY wrote:

Okay. Can you say "I did everything wrong by the numbers"? :laugh:

!. That lug is not in your scope. Period. That's my job.

2. Doesn't matter a damn what current code is if pre-existing code allowed it, and you aren't changing out the entire service.

3. Your partner was a dipshit. :laugh: Putting a screwdriver into a panel that is shorting out is about as smart as pulling the clip and pin from a grenade and sticking it in your pocket. You get the f- away and pick up the pieces later. I've seen too many idiots buck phases with a screwdriver and blow themselves up. And I ain't talking a singe phase house panel. You buck phases at 480 volts guess where you're going? If you live. The ER.

That inspector was out of line and y'all aren't even licensed to do high voltage electrical. He was in the wrong. I change lugs in the panel. You don't. I suspend the ground. You don't. What an idiot. You could have had his license for that.

__________________________________________________ ______________________


Night Train, That was (IS) one of the funniest posts I've EVER heard!!! I can relate to all that has been posted by everyone participating to this thread. Ironically, I'm putting in a shower and toilet to its own private room away from the room with the vanity and two person power tub off of the master bedroom. Kinda freaked when I saw the title of the thread and had hoped for some pointers. HA!!! I do pretty much EVERYTHING at my house: from foundation to roof and everything else from plumbing, masonry, electrical, windows and even all the wiring for our media room that contains routers and such.

I also got a bit unnerved when I read Gunny's mention of the "tingle" being more dangerous cuz it leaves you thinking that you're too tough to be effected. Just three weeks ago, I was "tingled" twice. HA!!! Right in the back as an exposed wire got me as I was wiring the huge vanity and was between the vanity and the wall. Yeah, yeah...I should have cut the juice off and I certainly should have topped them until I was ready to work with them but I was in a hurry.

Good to know that there are posters out there who know their stuff.

Gunny
08-28-2014, 12:20 AM
http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by NightTrain http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=701044#post701044)
I guess 'Cable Guy' is better than the usual "Commie" (communications) I get called by the smartasses as we're engaging in the usual banter. Knuckle-dragger and Narrowback phases them about as much as the Commie digs do to me - zero.

We had an inspector talk one of my coworkers into changing out a lug on the end of a cable running into an old school Nortel power bay - it was a 1-hole lug and he wanted a 2-hole because code had changed in the last 20 years since it had been installed. It wasn't even part of our scope. There was no room to work in there, and I told him to tell the Inspector to fuck off... but he did it anyway to make him happy.

He got the nut off the lug, and it slipped and fell onto the hot bar inside, and naturally shorted out and began glowing. The 300 amp breaker didn't trip. So he quickly stuck his 8" Klein screwdriver in there to knock that stupid nut off the bar, and suddenly we were blinded by a lightning bolt and deafened by the blast. It sounded like a 12-gauge going off in a closet. I thought he was dead for sure.

When I could see again, he was still standing there, blinking and holding the handle of that screwdriver - that Klein had vaporized with nary a trace of the steel. And that damn breaker was still closed.

Then our phones started ringing, because suddenly no one on this network had service in the middle of Anchorage. It seems a few cards had suddenly vaporized internal circuits and had a few air gaps. The Inspector got his ass chewed for it, and our boss told us of the virtues of sticking with the scope of work. There was right under $100,000 worth of electronics that fried over something that didn't need to be done and $15,000 in fines for an unscheduled outage, all paid by the Inspector's employer.

We ended up with a few hours of overtime to bring her back online, I was just thankful I didn't witness my buddy's death.



GUNNY wrote:

Okay. Can you say "I did everything wrong by the numbers"? :laugh:

!. That lug is not in your scope. Period. That's my job.

2. Doesn't matter a damn what current code is if pre-existing code allowed it, and you aren't changing out the entire service.

3. Your partner was a dipshit. :laugh: Putting a screwdriver into a panel that is shorting out is about as smart as pulling the clip and pin from a grenade and sticking it in your pocket. You get the f- away and pick up the pieces later. I've seen too many idiots buck phases with a screwdriver and blow themselves up. And I ain't talking a singe phase house panel. You buck phases at 480 volts guess where you're going? If you live. The ER.

That inspector was out of line and y'all aren't even licensed to do high voltage electrical. He was in the wrong. I change lugs in the panel. You don't. I suspend the ground. You don't. What an idiot. You could have had his license for that.

__________________________________________________ ______________________


Night Train, That was (IS) one of the funniest posts I've EVER heard!!! I can relate to all that has been posted by everyone participating to this thread. Ironically, I'm putting in a shower and toilet to its own private room away from the room with the vanity and two person power tub off of the master bedroom. Kinda freaked when I saw the title of the thread and had hoped for some pointers. HA!!! I do pretty much EVERYTHING at my house: from foundation to roof and everything else from plumbing, masonry, electrical, windows and even all the wiring for our media room that contains routers and such.

I also got a bit unnerved when I read Gunny's mention of the "tingle" being more dangerous cuz it leaves you thinking that you're too tough to be effected. Just three weeks ago, I was "tingled" twice. HA!!! Right in the back as an exposed wire got me as I was wiring the huge vanity and was between the vanity and the wall. Yeah, yeah...I should have cut the juice off and I certainly should have topped them until I was ready to work with them but I was in a hurry.

Good to know that there are posters out there who know their stuff.

Getting hit by 120 volts ain't nothing. Most "civilians" get zapped and let go. But if you aren't grounded, you can hold it and it feels like a tingle to me. But it'll screw up your heart. The higher voltages are less dangerous because you ain't holding on to jack. They blow you off. House panels are 120/208 single phase. Cheapest pieces of crap the developer can buy.

What NT is talking about is the amount of amps a .. google sucks. Does CNN own them? I haven't done service work in years and I'm old. I can't remember the name of the component that is the start up to the ballast. It builds enough amps to kill you. It's "dirty" electricity. Has nothing to do with the actual voltage.

NightTrain
08-28-2014, 08:35 AM
What NT is talking about is the amount of amps a .. google sucks. Does CNN own them? I haven't done service work in years and I'm old. I can't remember the name of the component that is the start up to the ballast. It builds enough amps to kill you. It's "dirty" electricity. Has nothing to do with the actual voltage.

Capacitor?

I think most of those fluorescent fixtures have capacitors to the ballast to get the initial boost to get the light process started when you hit the switch. Not really my field but I know I don't like those damn things, more efficient or not.

jimnyc
08-28-2014, 09:09 AM
I've been electrified a few times! But that's because I'm no electrician, journeyman or anyone that should be within 50' of electricity. I fix computer equipment. While you guys talk about these live lines - try opening an older monitor and lay one of your fingers on one of the capacitors in those suckers. I had one nearly put me on the floor once. I guy that worked there, who was about 75 or so, laughed for like 10 minutes at me. My hair was on end and I was shaking, and that old bastard is lucky I didn't kill him! LOL I also accidentally touched the wires while thinking I could change a 3 button switch in my bathroom while it was live. Not only did I find out the hard way that it stings a little when your pinky finger touches those wires - but that was the end of the new switch as swell!

And speaking of drills, I just bought this 18v Dewalt about a week ago. There was a rep there that day in Home Depot from Milwaukee, who tried to sell me the superior equipment, but it was like double the price. Considering I will break it out like twice per year, I didn't see a point in paying the extra. But I did buy 2 extra sets of bits for it, and she came with a spare battery too! On sale for $99. Did I get robbed?

http://i.imgur.com/XE4JF87.jpg

NightTrain
08-28-2014, 09:11 AM
And, yes, I do know the difference between voltage and current... I'm lazy and just say 277 and everyone knows what I'm referring to when you get bit by them. It's painful!

I think the biggest mishap I witnessed was again back in my apprentice days and we were building out the Comm Room down in the basement of a brand new Cancer Center at the Providence Hospital Campus in Anchorage.

Across the hall was the main demarc for the electrical, and the sparkies were in there doing their thing. I heard a Journeyman tell his apprentice to take his fish tape and put it in a conduit to see if it went a few rooms down, and the Journeyman walked down to the room and waited to see if the fish tape appeared.

It was a metal fish tape.

I could hear the apprentice working the fish tape, pushing it in. Suddenly there was a lightning bolt and a BOOM and the entire place was plunged into darkness. I had a miner's light on my hardhat, and turned it on so I could see. I ran out of our room to the Electrical room and the apprentice walked calmly out of his room toward my light. I asked him if he was okay, and he nodded.

His fish tape had gone in the conduit and come back into the same room on the other side behind him, and had laid itself across the main bus bars - 5,000 amps worth of 'lectrics!

Then all hell broke loose with foremen and the complex Superintendent along with his entourage of VIP visitors that had been on site taking a tour of the building. They quickly started investigating and we wisely stayed out of the circus & continued building out our comm room and listened in on the proceedings across the hall.

They quickly identified who had done it, questioned his Journeyman (because an apprentice is usually not responsible for doing stupid things because he's directly supervised by his licensed Journeyman) and he threw his apprentice under the bus. I heard him tell the General Foreman that he did NOT tell his apprentice to do that, or to use a metal fish tape. The Foreman told the apprentice to pack his tools and get the hell off his jobsite, and this meant his career was over - an apprentice getting himself fired means he'll be washed out of the program.

I was seething that the POS Journeyman would hang his apprentice out to dry like that and lie about what happened. The apprentice did exactly what he had been told to do by his boss. Sure, he should have known better but he followed orders and trusted that his Journeyman knew what he was doing.

I waited until the bigwigs had wandered away, then went to the General Foreman and told him what had actually happened. He went and found that Journeyman again and fired him, then recalled the apprentice who's career was suddenly back on track. He was grateful to still be alive and still have his career intact.

The Journeyman was blacklisted, with good reason, and I heard he eventually left AK about a year later to find work. No one wants a guy like that around the jobsite.

Gaffer
08-28-2014, 09:16 AM
Capacitors. They are like snakes laying in wait for a victim. Some of them can have a hell of a bite and they don't lose their charge over time.

NightTrain
08-28-2014, 09:16 AM
I've been electrified a few times! But that's because I'm no electrician, journeyman or anyone that should be within 50' of electricity. I fix computer equipment. While you guys talk about these live lines - try opening an older monitor and lay one of your fingers on one of the capacitors in those suckers. I had one nearly put me on the floor once. I guy that worked there, who was about 75 or so, laughed for like 10 minutes at me. My hair was on end and I was shaking, and that old bastard is lucky I didn't kill him! LOL I also accidentally touched the wires while thinking I could change a 3 button switch in my bathroom while it was live. Not only did I find out the hard way that it stings a little when your pinky finger touches those wires - but that was the end of the new switch as swell!

And speaking of drills, I just bought this 18v Dewalt about a week ago. There was a rep there that day in Home Depot from Milwaukee, who tried to sell me the superior equipment, but it was like double the price. Considering I will break it out like twice per year, I didn't see a point in paying the extra. But I did buy 2 extra sets of bits for it, and she came with a spare battery too! On sale for $99. Did I get robbed?

http://i.imgur.com/XE4JF87.jpg

Yeah, Capacitors can really bite you.

Your picture didn't load, Jim. But I think that the debate about Milwaukee vs. DeWalt amounts to the Ford vs. Chevy thing. DeWalt lasts and performs as well as Milwaukee from all I've seen, but the die-hard Milwaukee fans will argue the hell out of it. I drill a hole as fast as they do, and the rattle guns torque down just as much as the other brand does. $99 is pretty standard for a drill & 2 batteries & charger.

namvet
08-28-2014, 09:59 AM
Capacitor?

I think most of those fluorescent fixtures have capacitors to the ballast to get the initial boost to get the light process started when you hit the switch. Not really my field but I know I don't like those damn things, more efficient or not.

if i remember the Ballast itself is an inductor that raises the 120VAC to around 215VAC or maybe a little over. enough voltage to fire the gas in the tube. its a step up transformer. and I don't think there's any cap involved in newer lighting. the old ballast from way back when did have a cap added. isolation?? im not sure. would have to see a wiring diagram. transformer's are cool. there's a lot you can do with em.
I don't like fluorescent either. especially for home use

http://www.edisontechcenter.org/lighting/Fluorescent/1940sBallast-InsidesMagneti.jpg

namvet
08-28-2014, 10:15 AM
Capacitors. They are like snakes laying in wait for a victim. Some of them can have a hell of a bite and they don't lose their charge over time.

I worked mainly on DC power supplies. but they had a bleeder resister to discharge these caps. still, i was always in the habit of using a VOM or DVM to check and make sure.

Gunny
08-28-2014, 10:30 AM
Capacitor?

I think most of those fluorescent fixtures have capacitors to the ballast to get the initial boost to get the light process started when you hit the switch. Not really my field but I know I don't like those damn things, more efficient or not.

All pole lights have them. Most I worked on were high pressure sodium, not florescent. Most places would rather fix their old junk than buy new. But yeah, the capacitor. Total brain fart here. :)

namvet
08-28-2014, 10:33 AM
I've been electrified a few times! But that's because I'm no electrician, journeyman or anyone that should be within 50' of electricity. I fix computer equipment. While you guys talk about these live lines - try opening an older monitor and lay one of your fingers on one of the capacitors in those suckers. I had one nearly put me on the floor once. I guy that worked there, who was about 75 or so, laughed for like 10 minutes at me. My hair was on end and I was shaking, and that old bastard is lucky I didn't kill him! LOL I also accidentally touched the wires while thinking I could change a 3 button switch in my bathroom while it was live. Not only did I find out the hard way that it stings a little when your pinky finger touches those wires - but that was the end of the new switch as swell!

And speaking of drills, I just bought this 18v Dewalt about a week ago. There was a rep there that day in Home Depot from Milwaukee, who tried to sell me the superior equipment, but it was like double the price. Considering I will break it out like twice per year, I didn't see a point in paying the extra. But I did buy 2 extra sets of bits for it, and she came with a spare battery too! On sale for $99. Did I get robbed?

http://i.imgur.com/XE4JF87.jpg

always flick off the breaker first Jim. you'll learn :laugh: and get yourself a cheap volt meter. their easy to use and safer than your fingers. that's a nice drill and a good price to. most don't come with a spare battery. the Hitachi I posted was 97 bucks, my god some of em are up over 300 plus.

NightTrain
08-28-2014, 10:33 AM
I don't have any "hot" tools. I've seen how you cable guys have a pouch full of useless tool. :laugh: Give me 9" linesman's, a 10-in-one and I can do most anything. Of course you KNOW I have the duct tape and tie-wire on hand too!:laugh:

Yeah, you gotta have a pair of Nines. 10-in-one, too.

And you forgot to mention your Snips and 88 tape!

My fellow 'Commies' like to call them scissors, which I will always automatically correct them about. Snips will cut scissors in half.

Gunny
08-28-2014, 10:40 AM
And, yes, I do know the difference between voltage and current... I'm lazy and just say 277 and everyone knows what I'm referring to when you get bit by them. It's painful!

I think the biggest mishap I witnessed was again back in my apprentice days and we were building out the Comm Room down in the basement of a brand new Cancer Center at the Providence Hospital Campus in Anchorage.

Across the hall was the main demarc for the electrical, and the sparkies were in there doing their thing. I heard a Journeyman tell his apprentice to take his fish tape and put it in a conduit to see if it went a few rooms down, and the Journeyman walked down to the room and waited to see if the fish tape appeared.

It was a metal fish tape.

I could hear the apprentice working the fish tape, pushing it in. Suddenly there was a lightning bolt and a BOOM and the entire place was plunged into darkness. I had a miner's light on my hardhat, and turned it on so I could see. I ran out of our room to the Electrical room and the apprentice walked calmly out of his room toward my light. I asked him if he was okay, and he nodded.

His fish tape had gone in the conduit and come back into the same room on the other side behind him, and had laid itself across the main bus bars - 5,000 amps worth of 'lectrics!

Then all hell broke loose with foremen and the complex Superintendent along with his entourage of VIP visitors that had been on site taking a tour of the building. They quickly started investigating and we wisely stayed out of the circus & continued building out our comm room and listened in on the proceedings across the hall.

They quickly identified who had done it, questioned his Journeyman (because an apprentice is usually not responsible for doing stupid things because he's directly supervised by his licensed Journeyman) and he threw his apprentice under the bus. I heard him tell the General Foreman that he did NOT tell his apprentice to do that, or to use a metal fish tape. The Foreman told the apprentice to pack his tools and get the hell off his jobsite, and this meant his career was over - an apprentice getting himself fired means he'll be washed out of the program.

I was seething that the POS Journeyman would hang his apprentice out to dry like that and lie about what happened. The apprentice did exactly what he had been told to do by his boss. Sure, he should have known better but he followed orders and trusted that his Journeyman knew what he was doing.

I waited until the bigwigs had wandered away, then went to the General Foreman and told him what had actually happened. He went and found that Journeyman again and fired him, then recalled the apprentice who's career was suddenly back on track. He was grateful to still be alive and still have his career intact.

The Journeyman was blacklisted, with good reason, and I heard he eventually left AK about a year later to find work. No one wants a guy like that around the jobsite.

He should have been canned. Not even a question. Not so much for hanging his apprentice out to dry, but for being stupid. A metal fish tape in a conduit with live wires? Shooting yourself in the head is quicker. EVERY time I've seen an apprentice jacked up it's because the journeyman got lazy and didn't watch them. That was never a problem for me. I was so used to having troops with loaded weapons I was pre-trained to be paranoid.:laugh: The transition from live weapons to live electricity is not hard to make.

Gunny
08-28-2014, 10:51 AM
I've been electrified a few times! But that's because I'm no electrician, journeyman or anyone that should be within 50' of electricity. I fix computer equipment. While you guys talk about these live lines - try opening an older monitor and lay one of your fingers on one of the capacitors in those suckers. I had one nearly put me on the floor once. I guy that worked there, who was about 75 or so, laughed for like 10 minutes at me. My hair was on end and I was shaking, and that old bastard is lucky I didn't kill him! LOL I also accidentally touched the wires while thinking I could change a 3 button switch in my bathroom while it was live. Not only did I find out the hard way that it stings a little when your pinky finger touches those wires - but that was the end of the new switch as swell!

And speaking of drills, I just bought this 18v Dewalt about a week ago. There was a rep there that day in Home Depot from Milwaukee, who tried to sell me the superior equipment, but it was like double the price. Considering I will break it out like twice per year, I didn't see a point in paying the extra. But I did buy 2 extra sets of bits for it, and she came with a spare battery too! On sale for $99. Did I get robbed?

http://i.imgur.com/XE4JF87.jpg

Don't screw with capacitors, Jim. I'm LMAO at you, but don't. I had to learn the math on that one. Oh, just 120v. That'll be okay. Capacitors build enough amps to start up your equipment and shit will kill you. You've heard of people dying from screwing around with their tv's while they were hot? That rule hasn't changed, and is the same thing NT and I have said more than once in this thread. It ain't the volts that'll get you, it's the amperage.

There's no real difference in quality between the Milwaukee and the DeWalt. They'd each like to make you think so, but it's like the difference between a Ford and a Chevy.

Oh, and just turn off the circuit. I hate doing stuff in houses. The romex rockets that wire houses are usually high as kites and don't give a shit, and don't leave enough wire for you to work with.

Gunny
08-28-2014, 10:57 AM
Yeah, you gotta have a pair of Nines. 10-in-one, too.

And you forgot to mention your Snips and 88 tape!

My fellow 'Commies' like to call them scissors, which I will always automatically correct them about. Snips will cut scissors in half.

I broke my snips. Have to get some new ones. I crushed the handles. I'm only half-crippled in the legs, not the hands. :)

And yeah, calling them scissors is dumb. Cutting anything except what they are designed to cut is dumb too. I always use the straight cut, yellow handle ones. The green/red left cut/right cut are too much for me. More often than not, I'm going after studs with them.

Gunny
08-28-2014, 11:03 AM
always flick off the breaker first Jim. you'll learn :laugh: and get yourself a cheap volt meter. their easy to use and safer than your fingers. that's a nice drill and a good price to. most don't come with a spare battery. the Hitachi I posted was 97 bucks, my god some of em are up over 300 plus.

Different deal. Jim apparently thinks he's a construction worker. :laugh: DeWalt's and Milwaukee's come with a second battery. They're useless to us otherwise. For around the house, it doesn't matter. You carry one around all day, and you've usually got one battery on the charger.

That IS a nice drill, but Jim having it kinda reminds me of the 9 years old with an UZI.:laugh:

namvet
08-28-2014, 11:16 AM
Different deal. Jim apparently thinks he's a construction worker. :laugh: DeWalt's and Milwaukee's come with a second battery. They're useless to us otherwise. For around the house, it doesn't matter. You carry one around all day, and you've usually got one battery on the charger.

That IS a nice drill, but Jim having it kinda reminds me of the 9 years old with an UZI.:laugh:

jim's also a great electrical conductor

hold on i gotta go stick my fingers in a wall socket. my sinus's are clogged :coffee:

Gunny
08-28-2014, 11:21 AM
jim's also a great electrical conductor

hold on i gotta go stick my fingers in a wall socket. my sinus's are clogged :coffee:

:pokenest:

NightTrain
08-28-2014, 11:34 AM
jim's also a great electrical conductor

hold on i gotta go stick my fingers in a wall socket. my sinus's are clogged :coffee:

Your comment about getting zapped clearing your sinuses made me LOL... I've never heard anyone say that before. Pretty odd side affect. One guy told me his vision got better after getting hit, but it only lasted a few days and he had to go back to wearing his glasses... which was pretty weird, too.

Gunny
08-28-2014, 11:40 AM
Your comment about getting zapped clearing your sinuses made me LOL... I've never heard anyone say that before. Pretty odd side affect. One guy told me his vision got better after getting hit, but it only lasted a few days and he had to go back to wearing his glasses... which was pretty weird, too.

You get hit and it'll clear something alright. :laugh: Jim was messing with amps. I'm surprised it didn't clear more than his sinuses. :laugh:

NightTrain
08-28-2014, 11:43 AM
You get hit and it'll clear something alright. :laugh: Jim was messing with amps. I'm surprised it didn't clear more than his sinuses. :laugh:

Yeah, most people don't know that it can take less than a third of an amp to kill you. That's not much!

namvet
08-28-2014, 11:43 AM
Your comment about getting zapped clearing your sinuses made me LOL... I've never heard anyone say that before. Pretty odd side affect. One guy told me his vision got better after getting hit, but it only lasted a few days and he had to go back to wearing his glasses... which was pretty weird, too.

I have no idea why but its always cleared mine up.

Gunny
08-28-2014, 12:14 PM
I have no idea why but its always cleared mine up.

Your body runs on electricity. It has a rhythm. You disrupt that with an outside source, it screws up that rhythm. For lack of better words, you lose your body's retentive capabilities even if it's a split second. The sinuses go first. I'm sure I don't have to explain what's next. :) Most people that get hit don't hold on long enough for the latter to happen. Which is a good thing. That's what makes 120v so dangerous. Ungrounded, you can stand and hold 120v in your hands and it just tickles. But it's disrupting your internal organs because it's overloading your natural electrical current. I'd rather get hit by 277/480 because it'll blow you off of it. The immediate damage may be more severe, but long term, it's not as bad as 120/208 which will jack up your heart.

Not a real problem for your average around the house guy. Y'all act like you've been shot when you get hit with 120v and run like cats. In my trade it's more a problem; especially with the young un's proving how tough and cool they are. "Look, I can hold this and it doesn't hurt". Morons is a good word. For all the joking around, it ain't a game. Turn it off. We don't always have that option, but it's a lot easier if you can.

On a side note and back to the humor part .... I shut down River Center Mall in San Antonio once. I was working 277 hot and my linesman's grounded against the grid, and the breaker was so old in the panel it didn't trip. So I tripped the main. You should have heard the wailing and gnashing of teeth THEN. :laugh: They're all crying because they have no power and all I'm thinking is I just blew up a good pair of pliers. :laugh:

NightTrain
08-28-2014, 12:42 PM
On a side note and back to the humor part .... I shut down River Center Mall in San Antonio once. I was working 277 hot and my linesman's grounded against the grid, and the breaker was so old in the panel it didn't trip. So I tripped the main. You should have heard the wailing and gnashing of teeth THEN. :laugh: They're all crying because they have no power and all I'm thinking is I just blew up a good pair of pliers. :laugh:

Nice! I'm pretty fond of my Nines, too. They're insulated Klein, got a few small blow-holes in the wire cutter part where things didn't go as planned, but still functional.

My personal best on big screw ups was years ago when we re-cabled the AWACS hanger on Elemendorf AFB in Anchorage. We replaced all the old cable with new Cat6 and a 10-gig fiber backbone.

Part of the job was to wreck out all the old cabling that had been piling up in the ceilings since the '50s, and there was a shit-ton of it. We pretty much filled up a commercial sized construction dumpster with all that copper.

The two enlisted Air Force guys in charge of this project assured me that ALL old comm cables were to be removed. I verified it twice, with each of them. Yep, cut it all out.

So I was sitting on top of a 6 footer, with my coworker standing at the bottom taking cable from me as I cut and pulled the old stuff out. There was an old red Cat3 running almost out of reach up in that ceiling, and I leaned way out and cut it with my snips.

The fire alarm started shrieking and strobes were flashing. I glanced down at my partner and he was bellowing at me to hook it back up - but I could hardly hear him over the alarms. I scotch-locked them back together, but that didn't silence the fire alarm. Once that baby tripped, the Air Force fire department had to reset it from the main control panel.

There were full-bird Colonels running past us dragging their secretaries outside and utter pandemonium was everywhere I looked from the top of my ladder. The AWACS complex never got fire drills because that's where they had all their top-secret rooms, so a fire alarm meant it was the real deal.

After only a few minutes, the fire department guys showed up dressed in their Darth Vader suits wielding 6' fire axes. I went up to the lead one and told him I'd cut the fire alarm cable. He said it didn't matter, and to get my ass out of the building and onto the tarmac with the rest of them. He said they had to clear the building for themselves before shutting down that howling alarm system.

We went outside and they'd already pushed the AWACS aircraft out of the hangar to the middle of the runway, toward the F-22 area. I was sure I was going to be fired... this was a big deal.

The alarm stopped, finally, and I awaited my fate. An officer came up and questioned me, I told him what had happened and, amazingly, that was the end of it. I'd done what I was told to do, and the two enlisted guys that gave me the bogus info didn't even get an ass chewing, which was very surprising to me.

Fortunately, the foam fire suppressant hadn't triggered inside the hangar, if it had I was told it would have been 6' deep and like $30,000 to recharge the system.

When I'd seen Colonels sprinting past with their panicked secretaries in tow, I just knew it was the end of the world for me! Whew.

Gunny
08-28-2014, 01:56 PM
Nice! I'm pretty fond of my Nines, too. They're insulated Klein, got a few small blow-holes in the wire cutter part where things didn't go as planned, but still functional.

My personal best on big screw ups was years ago when we re-cabled the AWACS hanger on Elemendorf AFB in Anchorage. We replaced all the old cable with new Cat6 and a 10-gig fiber backbone.

Part of the job was to wreck out all the old cabling that had been piling up in the ceilings since the '50s, and there was a shit-ton of it. We pretty much filled up a commercial sized construction dumpster with all that copper.

The two enlisted Air Force guys in charge of this project assured me that ALL old comm cables were to be removed. I verified it twice, with each of them. Yep, cut it all out.

So I was sitting on top of a 6 footer, with my coworker standing at the bottom taking cable from me as I cut and pulled the old stuff out. There was an old red Cat3 running almost out of reach up in that ceiling, and I leaned way out and cut it with my snips.

The fire alarm started shrieking and strobes were flashing. I glanced down at my partner and he was bellowing at me to hook it back up - but I could hardly hear him over the alarms. I scotch-locked them back together, but that didn't silence the fire alarm. Once that baby tripped, the Air Force fire department had to reset it from the main control panel.

There were full-bird Colonels running past us dragging their secretaries outside and utter pandemonium was everywhere I looked from the top of my ladder. The AWACS complex never got fire drills because that's where they had all their top-secret rooms, so a fire alarm meant it was the real deal.

After only a few minutes, the fire department guys showed up dressed in their Darth Vader suits wielding 6' fire axes. I went up to the lead one and told him I'd cut the fire alarm cable. He said it didn't matter, and to get my ass out of the building and onto the tarmac with the rest of them. He said they had to clear the building for themselves before shutting down that howling alarm system.

We went outside and they'd already pushed the AWACS aircraft out of the hangar to the middle of the runway, toward the F-22 area. I was sure I was going to be fired... this was a big deal.

The alarm stopped, finally, and I awaited my fate. An officer came up and questioned me, I told him what had happened and, amazingly, that was the end of it. I'd done what I was told to do, and the two enlisted guys that gave me the bogus info didn't even get an ass chewing, which was very surprising to me.

Fortunately, the foam fire suppressant hadn't triggered inside the hangar, if it had I was told it would have been 6' deep and like $30,000 to recharge the system.

When I'd seen Colonels sprinting past with their panicked secretaries in tow, I just knew it was the end of the world for me! Whew.

Dude, you NEVER cut the red wire. :laugh::laugh::laugh: That's ALWAYS fire n smoke alarms. :laugh::laugh::laugh:

You don't know who got their ass chewed. Praise in public, criticize in private. Unless he's a dumb boot LT, that officer's not going to chew anyone's ass in front of you. And he ain't going to be looking for airmen. They're following orders. He's going to look for their boss. Nor is he going to yell at you. The airmen were relaying orders they were told and you were doing what you were told. Sounds like a good officer. Rare.

Back to laughing at you ... red wire running free in a ceiling or wall is ALWAYS fire alarm.:laugh: Do YOU have red cable? No. I have red wire but it's always in conduit. Let me guess ... 2 pair (redundant, I know) 18 gauge, sheathed. I would have been teasing your ass for the rest of the year at least.:laugh:
s a

namvet
08-28-2014, 03:08 PM
Your body runs on electricity. It has a rhythm. You disrupt that with an outside source, it screws up that rhythm. For lack of better words, you lose your body's retentive capabilities even if it's a split second. The sinuses go first. I'm sure I don't have to explain what's next. :) Most people that get hit don't hold on long enough for the latter to happen. Which is a good thing. That's what makes 120v so dangerous. Ungrounded, you can stand and hold 120v in your hands and it just tickles. But it's disrupting your internal organs because it's overloading your natural electrical current. I'd rather get hit by 277/480 because it'll blow you off of it. The immediate damage may be more severe, but long term, it's not as bad as 120/208 which will jack up your heart.

Not a real problem for your average around the house guy. Y'all act like you've been shot when you get hit with 120v and run like cats. In my trade it's more a problem; especially with the young un's proving how tough and cool they are. "Look, I can hold this and it doesn't hurt". Morons is a good word. For all the joking around, it ain't a game. Turn it off. We don't always have that option, but it's a lot easier if you can.

On a side note and back to the humor part .... I shut down River Center Mall in San Antonio once. I was working 277 hot and my linesman's grounded against the grid, and the breaker was so old in the panel it didn't trip. So I tripped the main. You should have heard the wailing and gnashing of teeth THEN. :laugh: They're all crying because they have no power and all I'm thinking is I just blew up a good pair of pliers. :laugh:

thank you DR Gunny ill take that under advisement ;)

there was only one time i got my ass kicked and i mean hard. oddly enough it was a medical test called a neuropathy test. to check nerve reactions. its really electrocution. a few years back i had numbness on the bottom of both feet. not bad. no pain. more of nuisance than anything. so mr doc there set me up for this test. they were mild shocks to began with but more intense as he went up from the ankles. when he got above my knee's he was laying the wood to my ass. much more powerful shocks, laid me out stiff as a board. when it was done he said negative no problems found. when i walked out of that room i didn't feel good at all and both legs painful as hell. hope to god i don't go thru that again ZAP !!!

Gunny
08-28-2014, 03:16 PM
thank you DR Gunny ill take that under advisement ;)

there was only one time i got my ass kicked and i mean hard. oddly enough it was a medical test called a neuropathy test. to check nerve reactions. its really electrocution. a few years back i had numbness on the bottom of both feet. not bad. no pain. more of nuisance than anything. so mr doc there set me up for this test. they were mild shocks to began with but more intense as he went up from the ankles. when he got above my knee's he was laying the wood to my ass. much more powerful shocks, laid me out stiff as a board. when it was done he said negative no problems found. when i walked out of that room i didn't feel good at all and both legs painful as hell. hope to god i don't go thru that again ZAP !!!

God help the world if I ever become President or a doctor. :laugh:

NightTrain
08-28-2014, 03:37 PM
Dude, you NEVER cut the red wire. :laugh::laugh::laugh: That's ALWAYS fire n smoke alarms. :laugh::laugh::laugh:

You don't know who got their ass chewed. Praise in public, criticize in private. Unless he's a dumb boot LT, that officer's not going to chew anyone's ass in front of you. And he ain't going to be looking for airmen. They're following orders. He's going to look for their boss. Nor is he going to yell at you. The airmen were relaying orders they were told and you were doing what you were told. Sounds like a good officer. Rare.

Back to laughing at you ... red wire running free in a ceiling or wall is ALWAYS fire alarm.:laugh: Do YOU have red cable? No. I have red wire but it's always in conduit. Let me guess ... 2 pair (redundant, I know) 18 gauge, sheathed. I would have been teasing your ass for the rest of the year at least.:laugh:
s a

Yep, there was red Belden cable back in the day, both Cat3 and Cat5e. Belden was harder to terminate because of the bonded pairs, but it was very high quality. They had some of that in the mix for ordinary data runs, along with every other color... there was no rhyme or reason to it, just whatever the contractor decided to put in over the years. If I had not seen red ethernet prior, I wouldn't have cut it. It's funny now, but it sure as hell wasn't at the time!

Gunny
08-28-2014, 03:52 PM
Yep, there was red Belden cable back in the day, both Cat3 and Cat5e. Belden was harder to terminate because of the bonded pairs, but it was very high quality. They had some of that in the mix for ordinary data runs, along with every other color... there was no rhyme or reason to it, just whatever the contractor decided to put in over the years. If I had not seen red ethernet prior, I wouldn't have cut it. It's funny now, but it sure as hell wasn't at the time!

That one's easy. Here's the "rhyme n reason": "SSgt, we're moving across the hall. You need to run cable for all these computers." I was a grunt. What do you think I knew about running coax? The Marine Corps doesn't have a problem with what you aren't qualified to do. :laugh:

Now, here's a "war story" for you. We had to remodel the Burger King on Lackland AFB. Can you spell "fiasco"? Apparently, on military bases, the NEC rules don't apply. I opened up the main and every color in the spectrum of wire was all over the inside that panel. My jaw dropped. Literally. I was like just get one of those bombers over here and we'll start over. :laugh:

Add to that, the HMFIC was an Air Force MSgt. He found out I was a retired Gunny. My boss got SO butt hurt over the fact that once he found out I was a retired Gunny he (the MSgt) wouldn't talk to anyone else. So I was taking incoming from both sides. :laugh:

NightTrain
08-28-2014, 04:05 PM
Yeah, I've seen some of the disasters from people that don't know the color code. I've spent many weeks fixing those rat's nests, tracing out circuits with my tone & amp.

I don't think most of the military really cares if it's the correct color code or not, just as long as the boss has dial tone and his computer works when it's their own people doing it. My work was always above reproach and I never had any do-overs as a Journeyman, but I did go back to fix later additions to the network that were improper and had slowed the network down to a crawl. Servers & routers are finicky like that.

Gunny
08-28-2014, 04:19 PM
Yeah, I've seen some of the disasters from people that don't know the color code. I've spent many weeks fixing those rat's nests, tracing out circuits with my tone & amp.

I don't think most of the military really cares if it's the correct color code or not, just as long as the boss has dial tone and his computer works when it's their own people doing it. My work was always above reproach and I never had any do-overs as a Journeyman, but I did go back to fix later additions to the network that were improper and had slowed the network down to a crawl. Servers & routers are finicky like that.

Thing is, there is no color code for low voltage. That bit me on the ass for quite awhile. In my job, green is the ground, period. In low voltage, it's just another wire. That green wire jacked me up more than once.

The only thing I don't like about fixing MY work is I don't do shit wrong, nor half-ass. If I have to take it apart it's gonna suck.

I HATE fixing other people's work. THAT is how you get hurt in my trade. Going behind a kid who's listening to his MP3 and doesn't give a damn. Takes no pride in his work. Just doing time until 3:30. THAT will get you knocked flat on your ass. That's when it ain't funny anymore. I've witnessed more than one ass kicking for it too.

NightTrain
08-28-2014, 04:34 PM
Thing is, there is no color code for low voltage. That bit me on the ass for quite awhile. In my job, green is the ground, period. In low voltage, it's just another wire. That green wire jacked me up more than once.

The only thing I don't like about fixing MY work is I don't do shit wrong, nor half-ass. If I have to take it apart it's gonna suck.

I HATE fixing other people's work. THAT is how you get hurt in my trade. Going behind a kid who's listening to his MP3 and doesn't give a damn. Takes no pride in his work. Just doing time until 3:30. THAT will get you knocked flat on your ass. That's when it ain't funny anymore. I've witnessed more than one ass kicking for it too.

As far as power, yep... no official color code that I'm aware of. We try to push the customer to sign off on Red = Hot, Black = Return and Green = Ground. I always attach labels on them, too, that way there's no way (!) someone can get confused.

What screws people up is the -48VDC that most telecom equipment runs on these days. They'll overthink things and hook that stuff up backwards, and that gets mighty expensive and exciting. If your equipment is -48, then your negative is Hot. I try to always refer to it as Hot or Return, never in Positive or Negative so people don't get confused. And it never hurts to check it with the ol' Voltometer.

Gunny
08-28-2014, 04:50 PM
As far as power, yep... no official color code that I'm aware of. We try to push the customer to sign off on Red = Hot, Black = Return and Green = Ground. I always attach labels on them, too, that way there's no way (!) someone can get confused.

What screws people up is the -48VDC that most telecom equipment runs on these days. They'll overthink things and hook that stuff up backwards, and that gets mighty expensive and exciting. If your equipment is -48, then your negative is Hot. I try to always refer to it as Hot or Return, never in Positive or Negative so people don't get confused. And it never hurts to check it with the ol' Voltometer.

You use black for your return? We are we required to use white or grey for the neutral (return). That and the ground are the only colors specified by the NEC. People don't understand what a "return" is. Why do you think they train US to do this junk?:laugh:

NightTrain
08-28-2014, 05:13 PM
Yeah, black going to the return. At least that way, it makes sense to us at a glance and we do it uniformly, since there is no code for this stuff. I should clarify that the green is usually equipment & rack ground.

I know you guys have a your own code, but I never mess with AC of any kind. If there is AC work, I'll have the boss send a sparky along with me to do his thing.

Gunny
08-28-2014, 05:37 PM
Yeah, black going to the return. At least that way, it makes sense to us at a glance and we do it uniformly, since there is no code for this stuff. I should clarify that the green is usually equipment & rack ground.

I know you guys have a your own code, but I never mess with AC of any kind. If there is AC work, I'll have the boss send a sparky along with me to do his thing.

You do houses for one thing. Single phase panels. Should be black and red for phase A and phase b, respectively. And DON'T ask me to explain why a 2 phase panel is single phase. Three phase, which is what I do, is A black B red and C blue. They are not prescribed colors though. The NEC only prescribes the neutral and ground. But, go to an electrical parts house and try to find other colors. Not around here. Except if you have a high leg. If you have a high leg transformer the high leg is always orange. Kind of out-moded though.