U.S. Airman Denied Reenlistment For Omitting 'So Help Me God,' Humanist Group Claims

[Baba Booey]

Yeah, I know - HuffPo.

What a bizarre story though. "Military Association of Atheists and Free Thinkers"? Oi vey...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/04/us-air-force-so-help-me-god_n_5767006.html


A member of the Creech Air Force Base in Indian Springs, Nevada, was allegedly barred from reenlisting in the Air Force after omitting the phrase "so help me God" from his contract, according to an American Humanist Association letter (http://americanhumanist.org/system/storage/2/5d/3/5241/SKMBT_C28014090209010.pdf) sent Tuesday to U.S. Air Force officials.

The airman was "told by his superiors that he must swear to God or leave the Air Force," according to the American Humanist Association, which was first alerted of the August 25 incident by secular watchdog group Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers.

Accusing the Air Force of violating the service member’s constitutional protections under the Establishment Clause, the humanist group threatened to sue commanding officers if the Air Force fails to permit members to reenlist with secular affirmations.

[Gunny]

Yeah, I know - HuffPo.

What a bizarre story though. "Military Association of Atheists and Free Thinkers"? Oi vey...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/04/us-air-force-so-help-me-god_n_5767006.html


" Enlistment Oath.— Each person enlisting in an armed force shall take the following oath:
"I, XXXXXXXXXX, do solemnly swear (or affirm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmation)) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_United_States) against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Officer_%28armed_forces%29) appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Code_of_Military_Justice). So help me God (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/So_help_me_God)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Armed_Forces_oath_of_enlistment

Too bad. Don't reenlist. You got an issue with the Oath of Enlistment? Take it up with your Congressman or hire an attorney and take it to the Supremes. You are required to take the Oath of Enlistment when you enlist, and when you reenlist. Verbatim. End of story.

Wonder why it didn't bother him when he initially took the Oath? He couldn't have gotten in if he didn't.

[fj1200]

Can't he say, "so help me flying spaghetti monster"? This can't be the first time this has come up.

[Gunny]

Can't he say, "so help me flying spaghetti monster"? This can't be the first time this has come up.

Which leads me to believe there's more to this than meets the eye. Who knows? I never saw anyone care or question it in 21 years. So why now suddenly question it, and ensure you drag the leftwingers and media in? As I said, he had to take the oath to get in the first time.

We had morons on the ship refuse to take anthrax vaccinations as well because they thought it was conspiracy. One Marine made it all the way from E-5 to E-2, losing a stripe with each refusal. Then he caved and took the shot. I was like, you're a dumbass. His response was he had a family to think about. I was like, you should have thought about that 3 stripes ago. The other Marine that refused got busted to E-1, and the Col made sure he was on the first bird to touch down. He was like, don't take the shot. You're going anyway.

Point is, you're in the military you follow orders unless they are unlawful. I hate shots. I'd rather be stabbed with a knife. But I made damned-sure I was at the head of the line with MY Marines when we had to take them.

So much for war stories. :)

There's more to this.

[fj1200]

Which leads me to believe there's more to this than meets the eye. Who knows? I never saw anyone care or question it in 21 years. So why now suddenly question it, and ensure you drag the leftwingers and media in? As I said, he had to take the oath to get in the first time.

There's more to this.

Attention seeking media whore? Race to be offended first? Sometimes that's all there is. :slap:

[Gunny]

Attention seeking media whore? Race to be offended first? Sometimes that's all there is. :slap:

Agreed. Odd he knew exactly who to take his complaint to for the media attention, huh?

[Gunny]

Ah. It was optional in the Air Force until they restored it to the oath.

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2014/09/04/air-force-restores-god-to-enlistment-oath.html

[fj1200]

Ah. It was optional in the Air Force until they restored it to the oath.

Well that was silly. Anyone who wants to serve and swears to the oath should be allowed in.

[Gunny]

Well that was silly. Anyone who wants to serve and swears to the oath should be allowed in.

I have no idea what the politics are behind it. It used to be "I swear". Then they changed it to "I swear (or affirm)" because I guess some people can't "swear"? I'm a Christian, so "so help me God" in an oath didn't phase me bit. It's in the Cub Scout and Boy Scout Oaths as well, unless they've changed it. And yes, I WAS a Cub Scout and Boy Scout. Just shut up.:buttkick:

Given today's climate of whiners, I don't see that it necessarily should be there. But I don't make the rules. On the other hand, the rules ARE the rules in the military. You follow them or get screwed. The requirement for enlistment is to take the oath of enlistment. It doesn't say it's going to be worded the way you want, and when the military changes the rules and you don't like it, too bad.

Here's one for you:

"I solemnly swear to defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, ..." DO you see ANYWHERE in there that you can be loaned out to the UN and get a powder blue helmet dropped on your grape and serve under some foreign military commander? I sure as Hell don't. But, if you refuse to serve when ordered to do so, you're screwed.

It ain't like the civilian world. You cannot refuse to follow orders unless they are unlawful.

[aboutime]

Just another reason I am so happy to be retired, and not coming face to face with all of the phony, whiners anymore.

Large numbers of our present, shrinking military know how they are being undermined, and tenderly betrayed by the special interest groups, and perpetually offended whiners among them who get Singled-out Treatment denied to everyone else who stays quiet.

For most of us veterans here on this forum today. I suspect; based on the straight skinny from my Marine son, and more so from a large number of neighbors in my area. We also know how our entire Military is being degraded, and slowly destroyed by...of all things, Political Correctness, and that Ever-present Fear of being singled-out as someone who doesn't agree with our CIC, or the tactics being used to ABUSE the Constitution.

[Gunny]

Just another reason I am so happy to be retired, and not coming face to face with all of the phony, whiners anymore.

Large numbers of our present, shrinking military know how they are being undermined, and tenderly betrayed by the special interest groups, and perpetually offended whiners among them who get Singled-out Treatment denied to everyone else who stays quiet.

For most of us veterans here on this forum today. I suspect; based on the straight skinny from my Marine son, and more so from a large number of neighbors in my area. We also know how our entire Military is being degraded, and slowly destroyed by...of all things, Political Correctness, and that Ever-present Fear of being singled-out as someone who doesn't agree with our CIC, or the tactics being used to ABUSE the Constitution.

Oh you can bet your six the Marine Corps is PC. Disgusted me. When I finally got around civilians again, I didn't even know how to act. Every time someone said something un-PC, I'd have to process it.

The military is the government's experimental proving ground because we can't say no. It's as simple as that.

[aboutime]

Oh you can bet your six the Marine Corps is PC. Disgusted me. When I finally got around civilians again, I didn't even know how to act. Every time someone said something un-PC, I'd have to process it.

The military is the government's experimental proving ground because we can't say no. It's as simple as that.


Gunny. That's why, from the very first day of Boot. The DI's remind everybody "You have no rights here. There is no constitution here. And, you can't run to Mommy anymore!":laugh:

Truth is. The Military. The U.S. Military is actually a "Dictatorship". Civilian life, methods, rules, thought, and Being...do not exist when anyone is in Uniform.

That's why civilians will never understand how difficult being in the Military actually is. It is beyond their ability to accept someone else controlling everything they do in life. EXCEPT for the American civilians who are too lazy to think, or become responsible for their own life. THEY are the WELCOME, gullible Americans who Need...SOCIALISM.

[Gunny]

Gunny. That's why, from the very first day of Boot. The DI's remind everybody "You have no rights here. There is no constitution here. And, you can't run to Mommy anymore!":laugh:

Truth is. The Military. The U.S. Military is actually a "Dictatorship". Civilian life, methods, rules, thought, and Being...do not exist when anyone is in Uniform.

That's why civilians will never understand how difficult being in the Military actually is. It is beyond their ability to accept someone else controlling everything they do in life. EXCEPT for the American civilians who are too lazy to think, or become responsible for their own life. THEY are the WELCOME, gullible Americans who Need...SOCIALISM.

I was raised in that "dictatorship", then spent 21 years in it. So I got the double-whammy when I retired. I'd never been outside the military much until I was 40. Few years as a teenager.

When I found myself telling getting ready to tell my younger Marines they wouldn't have made it when I went through boot camp -- which was true -- I just bit my tongue. I remember MY Gunny saying the same thing.:laugh:

The idea of individual rights that permeates the military now is what has eroded it. The very idea of individual rights in an organization that is built on teamwork, strict discipline and no favoritism to accomplish things as a unit is absurd.

Nobody made this guy join. Follow the rules or leave. It's over for him now anyway. Short term, he's thinking he's going to change the rules. That MFer would be on mess duty every other month and farmed out to ship's platoon on any and all ventures with me. He just made himself a target is all.

[aboutime]

I was raised in that "dictatorship", then spent 21 years in it. So I got the double-whammy when I retired. I'd never been outside the military much until I was 40. Few years as a teenager.

When I found myself telling getting ready to tell my younger Marines they wouldn't have made it when I went through boot camp -- which was true -- I just bit my tongue. I remember MY Gunny saying the same thing.:laugh:

The idea of individual rights that permeates the military now is what has eroded it. The very idea of individual rights in an organization that is built on teamwork, strict discipline and no favoritism to accomplish things as a unit is absurd.

Nobody made this guy join. Follow the rules or leave. It's over for him now anyway. Short term, he's thinking he's going to change the rules. That MFer would be on mess duty every other month and farmed out to ship's platoon on any and all ventures with me. He just made himself a target is all.


Gunny. I went through Boot camp (Navy) in 1964, during Nam. I also spent 30 years in it, and could never understand how civilians wouldn't do the little things WE did naturally, in uniform. Like cleaning up after spilling something on the job.
I was actually scolded one time, when I grabbed a push broom to clean up some sawdust, and used a dustpan, and foxtail to pick it up. The man told me..."That's not your job!"

I totally agree with you about the INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS garbage eroding, and ruining the military. And that's what we got when civilians decided to DEGRADE, and DESTROY our military with special treatment for the WUSSIES, and the CRYBABIES who didn't know they had to WORK when they thought they were getting away from terrible Mommy, and Daddy.