What would happen?

[jimnyc]

Every single American troop around the world - bring them home. From everywhere. No more American involvement in any country. We come home and defend our own and that's it. Let others take the lead on terrorism, and short of them being on our land, we have no involvement. We have zero involvement with troops in foreign lands. We no longer use our military for anything other than the homeland. We do not get involved in foreign wars at all, stay out of it, none of our business, and we should remain 100% consistent on that throughout the world.

Where does this leave America in the world standing? Is it better for every country out there that we sit back and leave every country for themselves? Is the concept of "world leader" no longer relevant? What about the concept of "global force for good"? Do you think other world leaders might eventually take the mantle if we bowed out?

And we take this approach, what does America look like in 10, 20 or 50 years from now?

[revelarts]

Are you presenting a realistic option Jim?
OK then, counter question.
What does America look like if we put boots on the ground in every country in the world, try to put out every fire, crush every hint of "terror" and despotism in every corner of the planet, nation build each country we have to defeat. And try to maintain control over every country and it's peoples forever and ever amen?

[Abbey Marie]

What would happen if Jim turned Libertarian? ;)

[NightTrain]

I think the world would devolve into chaos and multiple wars within 2 years... and then we'd end up being involved, anyway, with that much more work to do to correct things.

Look at what's been happening around the world with our inept leadership. I think that's just a taste of what would happen if we adopted an isolationist stance and announced our intentions to remain neutral in conflicts.

The UN would become completely irrelevant without our normal willingness to shoulder the hard & dangerous work with our military, and would go the way of the League of Nations.

NATO would also be no real threat to Putin or China in their schemes to expand their borders.

We haven't had a major war break out ever since WWII when we adopted our World Cop stance, and that speaks volumes when you look back through history.

[jimnyc]

What would happen if Jim turned Libertarian? ;)

I'm MORE than thrilled to be a far right chickenhawk. :beer:

[Abbey Marie]

I'm MORE than thrilled to be a far right chickenhawk. :beer:

Part of what makes you so lovable! :laugh2:

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Every single American troop around the world - bring them home. From everywhere. No more American involvement in any country. We come home and defend our own and that's it. Let others take the lead on terrorism, and short of them being on our land, we have no involvement. We have zero involvement with troops in foreign lands. We no longer use our military for anything other than the homeland. We do not get involved in foreign wars at all, stay out of it, none of our business, and we should remain 100% consistent on that throughout the world.

Where does this leave America in the world standing? Is it better for every country out there that we sit back and leave every country for themselves? Is the concept of "world leader" no longer relevant? What about the concept of "global force for good"? Do you think other world leaders might eventually take the mantle if we bowed out?

And we take this approach, what does America look like in 10, 20 or 50 years from now?

Even if we deported every muslim here(not a bad idea, if considering "certain factors") and did that it would still fail.
The world -all of it-- is evil and without our measure of holding the wolves back chaos would reign and huge wars erupt. Within a short time WW3 would begin and tens of millions die..--Tyr

[Abbey Marie]

I would read Revelation to see what ultimately happens.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I would read Revelation to see what ultimately happens.

I have my friend and --"it ain't pretty"!!!

Now put dow yo' gun and yo' bible long enough to consider the enlightened liberal views on this..;)

Let me just sum them up for times sake..

"You ignorant people listen to us. We the enlightened few know it all.
The correct path is always appeasement. So we appease always. Problem solved."

And that is exactly the wrong path to take and a path the Islamist always push for us to take. For that path plays right into their
"death by a thousand cuts" strategy! You see they want us greatly weakened before they make their first open, big push to destroy us!-Tyr

[revelarts]

What happened when Rome collapsed?
I think we think far to much of ourselves in regards to the peace of the world.
But it's a belief that i doubt any number of facts will shake.


But I would like know which countries would erupt into war and chaos to set the world aflame once we left.
would it be Germany, France, Belgium, Japan, Australia, Guam, Netherlands, Singapore, Philippines, Thailand, Italy, Cuba, the UK, Greece, Bulgaria, Nigeria, Puerto Rico, Ecuador, Aruba, Honduras...?

or maybe Saudi Arabia?

[revelarts]

I would read Revelation to see what ultimately happens.

BTW the United States is not mentioned in the Revelation.
Other nations are but I guess we're not that important in that particular final drama.

[Gunny]

Every single American troop around the world - bring them home. From everywhere. No more American involvement in any country. We come home and defend our own and that's it. Let others take the lead on terrorism, and short of them being on our land, we have no involvement. We have zero involvement with troops in foreign lands. We no longer use our military for anything other than the homeland. We do not get involved in foreign wars at all, stay out of it, none of our business, and we should remain 100% consistent on that throughout the world.

Where does this leave America in the world standing? Is it better for every country out there that we sit back and leave every country for themselves? Is the concept of "world leader" no longer relevant? What about the concept of "global force for good"? Do you think other world leaders might eventually take the mantle if we bowed out?

And we take this approach, what does America look like in 10, 20 or 50 years from now?

It can't happen. Most of our history is based on gunboat diplomacy.

The first major effect would be oil prices would shoot through the roof. Our economy would go into a free-fall.

And France would immediately surrender to someone. :)

[Abbey Marie]

BTW the United States is not mentioned in the Revelation.
Other nations are but I guess we're not that important in that particular final drama.

That is my understanding as well. But who knows why not? Perhaps we are no longer the United States by then...

[Thunderknuckles]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3ZOKDmorj0

[DLT]

Every single American troop around the world - bring them home. From everywhere. No more American involvement in any country. We come home and defend our own and that's it. Let others take the lead on terrorism, and short of them being on our land, we have no involvement. We have zero involvement with troops in foreign lands. We no longer use our military for anything other than the homeland. We do not get involved in foreign wars at all, stay out of it, none of our business, and we should remain 100% consistent on that throughout the world.

Where does this leave America in the world standing? Is it better for every country out there that we sit back and leave every country for themselves? Is the concept of "world leader" no longer relevant? What about the concept of "global force for good"? Do you think other world leaders might eventually take the mantle if we bowed out?

And we take this approach, what does America look like in 10, 20 or 50 years from now?


All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

America did nothing before WWII...until we were attacked at Pearl Harbor.... which resulted in six million Jews being exterminated AND which resulted in an enemy that was enabled to grow in strength and to research nuclear techology. It was, I believe, God's intervention which gave the US that technololgy first, before Germany, which allowed us to end that war. Today, an alarming rise in anti-semitism is showing its ugly puss yet again. Posters on forums all over the net are openly expressing their hatred and disdain for Israel and anyone who supports Israel. They are showing no tolerance for anyone that doesn't think exactly as they do (against Israel).

Right now, it's Christians in the ME that are being exterminated, but make no mistake. They're coming for us....for all of us....not just for American Christians or American Jews. It is their twisted 'conquer, convert and/or kill' mindset. So what do YOU think would happen if we withdrew all of our people and just sat back and did nothing from now on?

[Gaffer]

That is my understanding as well. But who knows why not? Perhaps we are no longer the United States by then...

The rest of the world was unknown at the time revelations was written. That's why it couldn't be divinely inspired.

[red state]

I believe, under a George Washington, with great character and vision for the Nation would find us doing quite well in tending to our own business....with our borders heavily guarded, our 2nd Amendment strengthened (not water downed as they are now) and a trade across State lines (as States were intended to be their own STATEhood within a REPUBLIC) and an ease of regulations to where we could actually use our own natural resources (as well as our own 'people resource') instead of importing goods, fuel and illegal workers. I realize that there'd be much pain in correcting these 'dependencies' but ask any junkie and they'll tell you that the pain is part of the healing process.

Eventually, we'd have to fight (no matter what) but that'd be a fight that finds us rested and our enemies weary because it'd be several years before THEY built up the courage and resources to actually take us on. And I don't think they'd fair too well regardless cuz we'd not be carrying on with war the way we've done in the past. As Gunny's slogan mentions, we'd have no mercy and do only that thing necessary to get the job done with as little harm to our own and as much harm needed to devastate our enemies.

We should remember that we feed and provide much (if not most) of the technology, security and food for the world so it is they that need us.....not the other way around. We may have gone too far in the "FREE TRADE" crap but I believe we could still kick the habit.....even if we had to go back to rashing and such as we did in WWII. That is part of the pains and I wish we had never had SLAVERY, "FREE" trade and I certainly wish we had stuck to Washington's plan of keeping our big nose out of other folk's business. Regrettably, however, ISRAEL would surely fall and fall VERY quickly under Jim's utopia for AMERICA.

All this would require a turning back to our founding and any deviation would spell certain doom and that is probably when our enemies would see enough weakness (as they do now) to try just about anything.

[red state]

The rest of the world was unknown at the time revelations was written. That's why it couldn't be divinely inspired.

I disagree.....the number 10 mentioned (as do other numbers) has more to do with it. The reason for the USA not being mentioned is simply because of its demise. I believe we're seeing that before our very eyes (which is why I've hoped and mentioned for years that I long for us to AT LEAST go out in a blaze of glory rather than simply "submit". No, my friend, it is the gov. system that Revelations speaks of that will obliterate ALL other governments. We see this already with the UN, agenda 21 and the evils of iSLUM, liberalism and the now disguised socialism.

I believe the Bible was Divinely inspired and that there are more to this 'onion' than can be overlooked or simply explained in a way that disregards God. Gaffer, I realize your stance on this, but I know you will respect my opinion as much as I respect yours.... in fact, this subject is the only one we have always disagreed with one another (I believe that to be true anyway).

One can't simply read bits and pieces to get the truth...sometimes it takes study and if one studies the Bible properly, they'll find that it is full of information although some regard it as contradictions and fairy tales.

[BoogyMan]

Every single American troop around the world - bring them home. From everywhere. No more American involvement in any country. We come home and defend our own and that's it. Let others take the lead on terrorism, and short of them being on our land, we have no involvement. We have zero involvement with troops in foreign lands. We no longer use our military for anything other than the homeland. We do not get involved in foreign wars at all, stay out of it, none of our business, and we should remain 100% consistent on that throughout the world.

Where does this leave America in the world standing? Is it better for every country out there that we sit back and leave every country for themselves? Is the concept of "world leader" no longer relevant? What about the concept of "global force for good"? Do you think other world leaders might eventually take the mantle if we bowed out?

And we take this approach, what does America look like in 10, 20 or 50 years from now?

That is pretty close to where America was pre-WWII. I am not sure it is a feasible position as just like with Pearl Harbor there is always going to be something that drags us into a broader conflict with goals that are not quite as clear as we would all like them to be.

[SassyLady]

What happened when Rome collapsed?
I think we think far to much of ourselves in regards to the peace of the world.
But it's a belief that i doubt any number of facts will shake.


But I would like know which countries would erupt into war and chaos to set the world aflame once we left.
would it be Germany, France, Belgium, Japan, Australia, Guam, Netherlands, Singapore, Philippines, Thailand, Italy, Cuba, the UK, Greece, Bulgaria, Nigeria, Puerto Rico, Ecuador, Aruba, Honduras...?

or maybe Saudi Arabia?

Saudi Arabia .... I don't think they really care if the world erupts .... just means they can hike the price of oil and sit there and keep smiling like a Cheshire cat.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Saudi Arabia .... I don't think they really care if the world erupts .... just means they can hike the price of oil and sit there and keep smiling like a Cheshire cat.

All these muslim murdering campaigns just gift them and Islam with more billions from oil prices rising.. And they view it as future wealth for the Caliphate. Each side Sunni and Shia are fighting to be the ones ruling the future worldwide Islamic Caliphate.-Tyr

[Drummond]

I think that NightTrain's scenario is pretty close to what the reality would be, if you did this as a country.

Thing is ... if you opt out of having any presences beyond your own shores, you lose control of everything beyond them. Islamists would view such a turnaround as a massive victory for them, which they'd turn into the biggest recruiting tool they've ever had. The reality of Afghanistan just pre-9/11, would be dwarfed by Jihadists running riot.

WMD's exist, as a technology anyone free to make them, to do so. They'd proliferate ... terrorists would get them, and in quantity.

Would Israel survive? Highly arguable. The price of isolationism could be their genocide.

And if nothing else, you' have to adopt a bunker mentality, with threats against you growing all the time. Russia would expand again. China, probably ditto. Islamists would consider themselves a lot nearer their Global Caliphate they dream of. And all he while, NOTHING would exist to curb the growth of their power and influence.

You bunker-defences would have to be perfect, NEVER failing, always ranged against ever-growing threats.

In short ... the world would go to hell in a handbasket .. and, eventually, the US would follow suit. Not a question of 'if', but WHEN ... and ... just how badly.

You would probably gauge its extent by the number of radioactive craters formed through rogue deployments of them ......

[Abbey Marie]

The rest of the world was unknown at the time revelations was written. That's why it couldn't be divinely inspired.

Generally, people believe that countries are alluded to, not named.

[NightTrain]

And France would immediately surrender to someone. :)


I'm pissed I didn't think of that line!

[Drummond]

I'm pissed I didn't think of that line!

Courtesy of 'Arrsepedia', a part of a British Army site that's a spoof of Wikipedia ....

http://www.arrse.co.uk/wiki/France


France

France n. Country in Western Europe populated by hairy women in great underwear with naughty smiles and soldiered by a rarely seen and often beaten army. Thats why they use Foreigners to fight for them.


"Collaboration" is the same in English as in French so you will have no trouble making yourself understood should you visit.


French military strategy is defined as stabbing your friend in the back.


And now a little humour...


Why are French roads lined with trees?
So that the German Army can march in the shade.

You might like to try a google search for 'french military victories'

See also (.. following up that last suggestion ...) ..

http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/images/blpic-frenchmilitaryvictories.htm

[jimnyc]

And add-on to my initial question, for those of you kindly still reading! :)

Being a "world power" as we are, do we, or should we, shoulder any responsibility 'globally' to stand up for "good" when we can? I completely understand this is a HUGE question, so eat a bag of worms if it's not needled down enough. :) What I mean is, if folks are in trouble elsewhere, and we can help, do we or should we? This can be anything from tragedies from mother nature, to genocide, to assisting in wars via a coalition, fighting terrorism.... I'm leaning more towards the "responsibility" part than actual specific events. As such a large country, with so many resources, and so many abilities.

Sorta like if you're the football player in HS, and you see a bully picking on a little kid, do you have a responsibility to step in. :)