FBI now asking Congress to weaken iPhone and Android security

[revelarts]

Now the FBI is asking Congress to weaken iPhone and Android security | The Verge (http://www.theverge.com/2014/10/22/7039289/fbi-congress-apple-backdoors)


FBI Director James Comey has been on a media tour lately, making a n anti-encryption pitch to the public. Apple's new encryption standards, Comey has argued, are an unnecessary hurdle to law enforcement — and the FBI needs an easy way to bypass them. Now Comey is bringing the argument straight to Congress, asking them to update a law to allow backdoors in smartphones.

The Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act, or CALEA, was passed in 1994, and required telephone providers to make it possible for law enforcement to wiretap phones. Newer forms of communication aren't explicitly mentioned in the law, and Apple's new encryption standards don't leave room for any government access. Even if government officials ask for data, Apple says, the company can't comply. (The same is true for Android.) Comey is asking Congress to update CALEA so law-enforcement backdoors would be legally required, but that could be a protracted battle: the debate over what law enforcement should be able to access has been going on for decades now, and privacy advocates have pushed back against recent measures.

As The Hill reports, politicians like Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) and Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.), two well-known advocates for internet freedom and privacy, have already said they'd a oppose a measure to broaden CALEA. Rep. James Sensenbrenner (R-Wis.) was more open to the idea, but even he admitted that passing an expansion wouldn't be easy. He told The Hill it will "be a tough fight for sure." the Fox is already in the Hen House now they asking for permission to be there and more comfortable doors to get in and out.

Warrants, we don't have no warrants, we don't need no warrants, we don't have to show you any stinking warrants!
Why don't you try to be more polite and throw that encryption over here....we're not trying to do you any harm..."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsdZKCh6RsU

[jimnyc]

I think this is awesome. Why shouldn't people be allowed to have great security for what they OWN? What if someone invents a safe for homeowners, and it's fail proof to safe hackers and such - will they try to ban them? The beauty is anyway, EVEN IF they ever succeeded at this, the apps would be on a kazillion websites. If Iphone stopped it, they would have new releases and new protection within a week.

This is why I have EVERYTHING on my SD card. If I have to, I'll quickly swallow the damn thing! :coffee:

[NightTrain]

Interesting.

I've worked in wireless for quite a while now. When cops want to listen in one someone, they'll bring a warrant to the C.O. (central office). All cellphone traffic goes through C.O.s of that carrier, like AT&T, Verizon, Sprint, etc. Then the foreman and a tech will sit down with the cop and start recording all traffic to that particular cell number for as long as the warrant is good for. Carriers don't like doing it, because it's a massive invasion of privacy, but they have to. When enough of those kinds of stories get out, they start losing customers - when every carrier has to do it. They keep this very low key.

The FBI knows the rules, and if they get a warrant they can have access to listen in on that cellphone.

What they're looking for here is to bypass the legal requirements of getting a warrant and start intercepting the traffic straight from the phone. There is no legitimate reason for them to do it.

I can see where they'd want to be able to do this sort of thing overseas, like in Pakistan when they're hunting down terrorists and the local carrier won't play ball... but this would be abused in America as well, it wouldn't only be used overseas in anti-terrorism efforts.

Nyet! Bad idea.

[jimnyc]

It's not just warrants and airwaves - they want to be able to access cell phones should they pull someone over and feel a need, for example. But this security apps will bolt it down and make it literally impossible for anyone, CIA or FBI to get in there. These people now want Apple to make it so that they can get into any phone, no matter what, even if someone has it bolted down.

I dunno. I suppose if you had the best safe in the world, BUT the police had a legit warrant, then they would likely deserve legal access. An argument can be made similarly about this I guess, but it still stinks.

[DLT]

Interesting.

I've worked in wireless for quite a while now. When cops want to listen in one someone, they'll bring a warrant to the C.O. (central office). All cellphone traffic goes through C.O.s of that carrier, like AT&T, Verizon, Sprint, etc. Then the foreman and a tech will sit down with the cop and start recording all traffic to that particular cell number for as long as the warrant is good for. Carriers don't like doing it, because it's a massive invasion of privacy, but they have to. When enough of those kinds of stories get out, they start losing customers - when every carrier has to do it. They keep this very low key.

The FBI knows the rules, and if they get a warrant they can have access to listen in on that cellphone.

What they're looking for here is to bypass the legal requirements of getting a warrant and start intercepting the traffic straight from the phone. There is no legitimate reason for them to do it.

I can see where they'd want to be able to do this sort of thing overseas, like in Pakistan when they're hunting down terrorists and the local carrier won't play ball... but this would be abused in America as well, it wouldn't only be used overseas in anti-terrorism efforts.

Nyet! Bad idea.

Oh come on! We can trust the (or this) government. IRS, NSA, CDC, EPA, DHS, you name it. Just look at how honest and forthcoming they've been thus far.

Oh wait.....

[fj1200]

What they're looking for here is to bypass the legal requirements of getting a warrant and start intercepting the traffic straight from the phone. There is no legitimate reason for them to do it.

I don't think this bypasses the warrant requirement.

[DLT]

Now the FBI is asking Congress to weaken iPhone and Android security | The Verge (http://www.theverge.com/2014/10/22/7039289/fbi-congress-apple-backdoors)

the Fox is already in the Hen House now they asking for permission to be there and more comfortable doors to get in and out.

Warrants, we don't have no warrants, we don't need no warrants, we don't have to show you any stinking warrants!. Why don't you try to be more polite and throw that encryption over here....we're not trying to do you any harm..."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsdZKCh6RsU

My experience in observing these gov agencies is....they always only publicly ask for permission for things.....
after they've already been doing those things behind the scenes.

In this instance, decryption is taking up too much of their time (they need more time to party and stiff hookers), so yeah, they're whining about easier access so that it will 'free up' their time for more important matters.

The problem, of course, is....not just this government being able to more easily spy on Americans. There are other entities out there that will use this back door (if provided) to data-mine personal info and also for identify theft. They are asking Congress to cut its own throat with the public and the voters by approving of this. A typical tactic of leftists, btw.

[fj1200]

A typical tactic of leftists, btw.

I've heard that every leftist is controlling a drone targeting every righty in the US and is ready to act on orders to take us out. :scared:

True story.

[DLT]

I don't think this bypasses the warrant requirement.

Yeah, supposedly....a warrant is still required. But making it easier for gov agencies to spy on us is never a good idea considering the credibility and demonstrated dishonesty of said gov agencies.


USA telecommunications providers must install new hardware or software, as well as modify old equipment, so that it doesn't interfere with the ability of a law enforcement agency (LEA) to perform real-time surveillance of any telephone or Internet traffic. Modern voice switches now have this capability built in, yet Internet equipment almost always requires some kind of intelligent Deep Packet Inspection (http://www.debatepolicy.com/wiki/Deep_Packet_Inspection) probe to get the job done. In both cases, the intercept-function must single out a subscriber named in a warrant for intercept (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications_Assistance_for_Law_Enforcement_Act) and then immediately send some (headers-only) or all (full content) of the intercepted data to an LEA. The LEA will then process this data with analysis software that is specialized towards criminal investigations.

Sad to say that it was the Republicans that passed this during the Clinton administration....paving the way for more intrusive gov spying on US citizens.

[DLT]

I've heard that every leftist is controlling a drone targeting every righty in the US and is ready to act on orders to take us out. :scared:

True story.

Well......not....."every". (most, maybe) lol

[NightTrain]

I don't think this bypasses the warrant requirement.

I know.

However, they already have access to anyone's phone if a Judge signs off on it.

The only reason they'd want a backdoor to grab your cell phone traffic straight from the phone is so they can do so without going down to the C.O. and showing the warrant. I watched a Foreman turn cops away because they didn't have a warrant and tried to bully their way into wiretapping a phone. It didn't work, and as it turns out they weren't able to get a warrant, but tried to do it anyway.

Cops don't always play by the rules.

Judges don't always give cops the warrant they want, and this proposal is a way to get around that problem.

[revelarts]

My experience in observing these gov agencies is....they always only publicly ask for permission for things.....
after they've already been doing those things behind the scenes.

In this instance, decryption is taking up too much of their time (they need more time to party and stiff hookers), so yeah, they're whining about easier access so that it will 'free up' their time for more important matters.

The problem, of course, is....not just this government being able to more easily spy on Americans. There are other entities out there that will use this back door (if provided) to data-mine personal info and also for identify theft. They are asking Congress to cut its own throat with the public and the voters by approving of this. A typical tactic of leftists, btw.

yep as i said,
The Fox is already in the Hen House now they asking for permission to be there and more comfortable doors to get in and out.

NSA is already collecting everything and has warrantless access at any time. the FBI doesn't have the same tools and the NSA won't give them everything they want all the time it appears.

but the FBI is doing what they want now with and without warrants


http://www.theverge.com/2013/6/6/4403868/nsa-fbi-mine-data-apple-google-facebook-microsoft-others-prismThe US National Security Agency and Federal Bureau of Investigation have been harvesting data such as audio, video, photographs, emails, and documents from the internal servers of nine major technology companies, according to a leaked 41-slide security presentation obtained by The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/us-intelligence-mining-data-from-nine-us-internet-companies-in-broad-secret-program/2013/06/06/3a0c0da8-cebf-11e2-8845-d970ccb04497_story.html?hpid=z1) and The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/06/us-tech-giants-nsa-data?guni=Network%20front:network-front%20main-2%20Special%20trail:Network%20front%20-%20special%20trail:Position1)......
...............
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/06/nsa-phone-records-verizon-court-order

The National Security Agency is currently collecting the telephone records of millions of US customers of Verizon, one of America's largest telecoms (http://www.theguardian.com/technology/telecoms) providers, under a top secret court order issued in April.
The order, a copy of which has been obtained by the Guardian, requires Verizon on an "ongoing, daily basis" to give the NSA information on all telephone calls in its systems (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactive/2013/jun/06/verizon-telephone-data-court-order), both within the US and between the US and other countries.
The document shows for the first time that under the Obama administration the communication records of millions of US citizens are being collected indiscriminately and in bulk – regardless of whether they are suspected of any wrongdoing.
The secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (Fisa) granted the order to the FBI on April 25, giving the government unlimited authority to obtain the data for a specified three-month period ending on July 19.
Under the terms of the blanket order, the numbers of both parties on a call are handed over, as is location data, call duration, unique identifiers, and the time and duration of all calls. The contents of the conversation itself are not covered.
The disclosure is likely to reignite longstanding debates in the US over the proper extent of the government's domestic spying powers.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=CsGPoJhmqkw

[fj1200]

Yeah, supposedly....a warrant is still required. But making it easier for gov agencies to spy on us is never a good idea considering the credibility and demonstrated dishonesty of said gov agencies.

Sad to say that it was the Republicans that passed this during the Clinton administration....paving the way for more intrusive gov spying on US citizens.

:rolleyes: No, I'm pretty sure a warrant is still required. And this really isn't a spying issue, the NSA don't need to come out and ask in public.


I know.

However, they already have access to anyone's phone if a Judge signs off on it.

The only reason they'd want a backdoor to grab your cell phone traffic straight from the phone is so they can do so without going down to the C.O. and showing the warrant. I watched a Foreman turn cops away because they didn't have a warrant and tried to bully their way into wiretapping a phone. It didn't work, and as it turns out they weren't able to get a warrant, but tried to do it anyway.

Cops don't always play by the rules.

Judges don't always give cops the warrant they want, and this proposal is a way to get around that problem.

The first part... called a warrant right?
The second part... I imagine that they still need to go and show their warrant. I think they just need a back door to get around any encryption that may be built in.

Anyway, I think this rightly goes down to defeat.

[NightTrain]

The first part... called a warrant right?
The second part... I imagine that they still need to go and show their warrant. I think they just need a back door to get around any encryption that may be built in.

Anyway, I think this rightly goes down to defeat.

If they can sit in their van and intercept straight from the phone, why would they bother getting a warrant?

The only reason they get warrants now is because the Local Exchange Carrier won't do it without one. Plus any hard evidence gathered without one would be inadmissible, but that is quickly remedied when they've got an ID on someone dirty.

[fj1200]

If they can sit in their van and intercept straight from the phone, why would they bother getting a warrant?

The only reason they get warrants now is because the Local Exchange Carrier won't do it without one. Plus any hard evidence gathered without one would be inadmissible, but that is quickly remedied when they've got an ID on someone dirty.

You answered your own question. Plus I haven't read where this would allow them the ability to do what you say.

[NightTrain]

You answered your own question. Plus I haven't read where this would allow them the ability to do what you say.

If you defeat the encryption between the phone and the tower, then it's wide open.

Very well then, FJ... why do you think they want to be able to have access to the cellphones when they already have it by using the legal channels?

[fj1200]

If you defeat the encryption between the phone and the tower, then it's wide open.

Very well then, FJ... why do you think they want to be able to have access to the cellphones when they already have it by using the legal channels?

It sounds like there is encryption in place that defeats the warrant. But I couldn't tease out the technical details, I'm sure you'd know that better than I.

[NightTrain]

It sounds like there is encryption in place that defeats the warrant. But I couldn't tease out the technical details, I'm sure you'd know that better than I.

Not at all. They can go down to the C.O. with their warrant and get that wiretap any time they want.

The encryption is between the phone and the tower, not when it's running on the fiber and copper in the C.O. It's all internet data once it enters the tower with high priority for voice communications.

[jimnyc]

I could be wrong, but I didn't think this was about calls and intercepting and such, but more so about physical access to the phone. If locked, it cannot be unlocked with the developed and developing apps. The police, FBI and such don't like this, as it would leave them without a way to physically access, I suppose warrant or not. What they are looking for, is a back door from Apple, to where if the phone is locked, and they can't gain access, that they will be able to do so via the backdoor (with a warrant we all hope).

[fj1200]

Not at all. They can go down to the C.O. with their warrant and get that wiretap any time they want.

The encryption is between the phone and the tower, not when it's running on the fiber and copper in the C.O. It's all internet data once it enters the tower with high priority for voice communications.

OK. I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time this week. :eek: