Desperate liberals still trying to pretend waterboarding and sleep deprv is "torture"

[Little-Acorn]

I see there's been a resurgence of the old, tired lie that the waterboarding and sleep deprivation our interrogators used on terrorist prisoners, was "torture".

Apparently enough time has gone by since this fib was refuted, that the liberals think they can start reciting it again as though it were true, without people remembering.

So, once again: Torture causes pain, damage, disfigurement, and even death. Some countries put people on racks and stretch their joints until they tear apart, Others put red-hot irons to people's arms, faces, or feet. Still others cut off fingers or toes one at a time.

Waterboarding, OTOH, is just putting someone flat on a board and pouring water into his mouth and nose. It's uncomfortable and even painful and can create fear of drowning. But no one drowns, and as soon as the water stops and the guy coughs it out of his mouth and nose, he's fine again within minutes.

Paying your taxes is painful, too, and can create fear of drowning (in debt) without end. And unlike waterboarding, it goes on forever, and comes back year after year. And paying taxes can cause as much sleep deprivation as our interrogators ever did, again continuing for months instead of a few days. I'd wager that a lot of American would prefer waterboarding on April 15 over paying taxes, if they could save the one-quarter of their pay that government takes in income taxes, excises, sales taxes etc. that keep nibbling away at everything they own without end.

"Waterboarding is torture" only to people who have never thought much about what torture really is... or even what waterboarding is.

[revelarts]

you should change the name to
Desperate neo-conservatives try to redefine ancient illegal torture practices.



http://waterboarding.org/files/waterboarding/images/1556%20Praxis%20Rerum%20Criminalium.preview.jpg


http://mistercaps.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/watertorturedm_468x404.jpg

http://waterboarding.org/files/waterboarding/images/1968.01.21%20vietnam.jpg

"On Jan. 21, 1968, The Washington Post ran a front-page photo of a U.S. soldier supervising the waterboarding of a captured North Vietnamese soldier near Da Nang. The caption said the technique induced "a flooding sense of suffocation and drowning, meant to make him talk." This picture led to an Army investigation and, two months later, the court martial of the soldier."

Same Crap different Day.
the Inquisition used torture
The Rack was torture so was
"Strappado ... a form of torture that began with the Medieval Inquisition. In one version, the hands of the accused were tied behind his back and the rope looped over a brace in the ceiling of the chamber or attached to a pulley. Then the subject was raised until he was hanging (http://health.howstuffworks.com/diseases-conditions/death-dying/death-by-hanging.htm) from his arms."
Water boarding also used by the Spanish Inquisition. The Inquisition called it what it is: tortura del aqua. In English: Water Torture.

[jimnyc]

Catch them. Put them on international TV. Make sure their cronies tune in. Take prisoner and shoot him directly in each eyeball, resulting in much larger eye sockets and lack of rear portion of head. Sends out a message and obviously the prisoner would be much better off.

[Little-Acorn]

you should change the name to
Desperate neo-conservatives try to redefine ancient illegal torture practices.
http://waterboarding.org/files/waterboarding/images/1556%20Praxis%20Rerum%20Criminalium.preview.jpg


That's not even waterboarding.

Nice try.

[aboutime]

you should change the name to
Desperate neo-conservatives try to redefine ancient illegal torture practices.



http://waterboarding.org/files/waterboarding/images/1556%20Praxis%20Rerum%20Criminalium.preview.jpg


http://mistercaps.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/watertorturedm_468x404.jpg

http://waterboarding.org/files/waterboarding/images/1968.01.21%20vietnam.jpg

"On Jan. 21, 1968, The Washington Post ran a front-page photo of a U.S. soldier supervising the waterboarding of a captured North Vietnamese soldier near Da Nang. The caption said the technique induced "a flooding sense of suffocation and drowning, meant to make him talk." This picture led to an Army investigation and, two months later, the court martial of the soldier."

Same Crap different Day.
the Inquisition used torture
The Rack was torture so was
"Strappado ... a form of torture that began with the Medieval Inquisition. In one version, the hands of the accused were tied behind his back and the rope looped over a brace in the ceiling of the chamber or attached to a pulley. Then the subject was raised until he was hanging (http://health.howstuffworks.com/diseases-conditions/death-dying/death-by-hanging.htm) from his arms."
Water boarding also used by the Spanish Inquisition. The Inquisition called it what it is: tortura del aqua. In English: Water Torture.



rev. How bout we change it to Rev failed his Lobotomy. And let it got at that?:laugh:
You should be praying 24/7 that those enemies of America you wish to appease. Never find your home, or family. Thankless, selfish Americans are bringing down this nation, while holding Obama's hand.

[Anton Chigurh]

We're SUCH meanies.

[revelarts]

1947: Japanese Soldier Who Waterboarded US Civilian Convicted of War Crime
History Commons (http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a1947waterboardwarcrime&scale=0#a1947waterboardwarcrime)

1947: Japanese Soldier Who Waterboarded US Civilian Convicted of War Crime (http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a1947waterboardwarcrime#a1947wate rboardwarcrime)

In the aftermath of World War II, Japanese officer Yukio Asano is charged by a US war crimes tribunal for torturing a US civilian. Asano had used the technique of “waterboarding” on the prisoner (see 1800 and After (http://www.historycommons.org/item.jsp?item=a1800waterboardban)). The civilian was strapped to a stretcher with his feet in the air and head towards the floor, and water was poured over his face, causing him to gasp for air until he agreed to talk. Asano is convicted and sentenced to 15 years of hard labor. Other Japanese officers and soldiers are also tried and convicted of war crimes that include waterboarding US prisoners. “All of these trials elicited compelling descriptions of water torture from its victims, and resulted in severe punishment for its perpetrators,” reporter Evan Wallach will later write. In 2006, Senator Edward Kennedy (D-MA), discussing allegations of US waterboarding of terror suspects, will say in regards to the Asano case, “We punished people with 15 years of hard labor when waterboarding was used against Americans in World War II.” <cite>[Washington Post, 10/5/2006 (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/04/AR2006100402005.html); National Public Radio, 11/3/2007 (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=15886834)]</cite>



http://www.npr.org/2007/11/03/15886834/waterboarding-a-tortured-history
history of water boarding

....Its use was first documented in the 14th century, according to Ed Peters, a historian at the University of Pennsylvania. It was known variously as "water torture," the "water cure" or tormenta de toca — a phrase that refers to the thin piece of cloth placed over the victim's mouth.
At the time, using water to induce confessions was "a normal incident of law," Peters says, and people viewed it more or less as we view a cross-examination today. If anything, Peters says, the Inquisitors "were more careful about it" than others of their time.
"They were professionals," Peters says, noting that a doctor's presence was required during interrogations. Not that it made the experience any more pleasant for the victim, of course.
Leaves No Marks
"The patient strangled and gasped and suffocated and, at intervals, the toca was withdrawn and he was adjured to tell the truth. The severity of the infliction was measured by the number of jars [of water] consumed, sometimes reaching to six or eight," writes Henry Charles Lea in A History of the Inquisition of Spain.
"The thing you could not do in torture was injure the body or cause death," Peters says. That was — and still is — what makes waterboarding such an attractive interrogation technique, he says: It causes great physical and mental suffering, yet leaves no marks on the body.
Waterboarding actually refers to two different interrogation techniques. One involves pumping water directly into the stomach. "This creates intense pain. It feels like your organs are on fire," says Darius Rejali, a professor at Reed College in Oregon and author of a new book, Torture and Democracy.
The other technique — the one more widely used today — involves choking the victim by filling their throat with a steady stream of water — a sort of "slow-motion drowning" that was perfected by Dutch traders in the 17th century. They used it against their British rivals in the East Indies.
A Turning Point
A turning point for waterboarding — in any form — came around 1800. As the Enlightenment swept across Europe, many countries banned the practice and people, in general, found it "morally repugnant," Peters says. Waterboarding moved underground, but did not disappear by any means. In fact, it has experienced something of a revival in the 20th century.
The interrogation method was used by the Japanese in World War II, by U.S. troops in the Philippines and by the French in Algeria. In Cambodia, the Khmer Rogue used waterboarding against its own people. The British used it against both Arabs and Jews in occupied Palestine in the 1930s. In the 1970s, it was widely used in Latin America, particularly under the military dictatorships in Chile and Argentina (where it was known as "Asian torture.")
Details are hard to come by, since no government will openly acknowledge using the interrogation method. Over the years, the technique has been modified slightly. The Japanese, for instance, used teapots to hold the water, and cellophane is sometimes used instead of a cloth. But waterboarding has changed very little in the past 500 years. It still relies on the innate fear of drowning and suffocating to coerce confessions.
Waterboarding reached the U.S. via a circuitous route. The Spanish exported the practice to the Philippines, which they colonized for centuries. It was then adapted by U.S. forces there at the start of the 20th century and, eventually, adopted by some police forces in the U.S.
During the Spanish-American War, a U.S. soldier, Major Edwin Glenn, was suspended from command for one month and fined $50 for using "the water cure." In his review, the Army judge advocate said the charges constituted "resort to torture with a view to extort a confession." He recommended disapproval because "the United States cannot afford to sanction the addition of torture."....

[Anton Chigurh]

Waa.

Imagine what the Israelis and French are doing to our prisoners, after Obama renditions them over. So he can claim he doesn't "torture."

This was open, transparent and approved by Congress, unlike the current activities.

One last little wail of "But..... BOOOOOSSSHHH" from the Dems.

They haven't got over nor will they ever, the election of 2000 where their candidate lost because he couldn't carry his home state.

[revelarts]

what Obama lying? say it ain't so AC,
look, I believe Obama's doing it as well. it's a bit harder to nail on on it on him than on the Bush admin since he was so open about it.
And we see how people are trying to deny it's torture for the neo-cons sake. the left will throw up it's denials as well if they look long enough to see that Obama's is doing it as well.
But in general i think Obama clearly should be in jail for other crimes namely drone striking American and wire tapping citizens to start.

[aboutime]

According to the Obama White House. The CIA, and our military have not been able to use any forms of torture since Obama decided NOT TO TAKE ANY MORE PRISONERS.....ALIVE.

Drones have been the weapon of choice, and NOT ONE terrorist has been returned to GITMO because of drones.

[Little-Acorn]

According to the Obama White House. The CIA, and our military have not been able to use any forms of torture since Obama decided NOT TO TAKE ANY MORE PRISONERS.....ALIVE.

Drones have been the weapon of choice, and NOT ONE terrorist has been returned to GITMO because of drones.

So we're killing them wholesale.

But at least we're not pouring water into their noses and disturbing their sleep.

[Anton Chigurh]

look, I believe Obama's doing it as well.But, he is not. He has complete separation from it, once they are turned over. And all the plausible deniability on earth. And of course, none of the prisoners so treated, ever come out alive.

It's a win-win for him.

[revelarts]

More FYI history

Nazis Called Their Torture “Enhanced Interrogation” Too Just ran across an older piece documenting that the CIA and crew did the exact same things the Nazis did to torture people … and even called it the exact same thing.

The Nazis’ “enhanced interrogation” – just like America’s – included (http://www.theatlantic.com/daily-dish/archive/2007/05/-versch-auml-rfte-vernehmung/228158/#more):


Sleep deprivation
Cold
Blows
Hard surfaces

Sadly, American officials apparently took a page from the Nazis … and the Communists (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/12/gov-tortured-killed-innocent-people-specific-purpose-producing-false-propaganda.html).



The phrase "Verschärfte Vernehmung" is German for "enhanced interrogation". Other translations include "intensified interrogation" or "sharpened interrogation". It's a phrase that appears to have been concocted in 1937, to describe a form of torture that would leave no marks, and hence save the embarrassment pre-war Nazi officials were experiencing as their wounded torture victims ended up in court. The methods, as you can see above, are indistinguishable from those described as "enhanced interrogation techniques" by the president. As you can see from the Gestapo memo, moreover, the Nazis were adamant that their "enhanced interrogation techniques" would be carefully restricted and controlled, monitored by an elite professional staff, of the kind recommended by Charles Krauthammer, and strictly reserved for certain categories of prisoner. At least, that was the original plan.

Also: the use of hypothermia, authorized by Bush and Rumsfeld, was initially forbidden. 'Waterboarding" was forbidden too, unlike that authorized by Bush. As time went on, historians have found that all the bureaucratic restrictions were eventually broken or abridged. Once you start torturing, it has a life of its own. The "cold bath" technique - the same as that used by Bush against al-Qahtani in Guantanamo - was, according to professor Darius Rejali of Reed College,

pioneered by a member of the French Gestapo by the pseudonym Masuy about 1943. The Belgian resistance referred to it as the Paris method, and the Gestapo authorized its extension from France to at least two places late in the war, Norway and Czechoslovakia. That is where people report experiencing it.
In Norway, we actually have a 1948 court case that weighs whether "enhanced interrogation" using the methods approved by president Bush amounted to torture. The proceedings are fascinating, with specific reference to the hypothermia used in Gitmo, and throughout interrogation centers across the field of conflict. The Nazi defense of the techniques is almost verbatim that of the Bush administration...

http://www.theatlantic.com/daily-dish/archive/2007/05/-versch-auml-rfte-vernehmung/228158/#more


http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6882&stc=1


..........

also the LEFTY communist used it.


...As I noted (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2009/04/senator-government-used-communist-torture-techniques-aimed-at-extracting-false-confessions.html) in 2009:

Senator Levin, in commenting (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sen-carl-levin/new-report-bush-officials_b_189823.html) on the Senate Armed Services Committee report on torture declassified today, drops the following bombshell:

With last week’s release of the Department of Justice Office of Legal Counsel (OLC) opinions, it is now widely known that Bush administration officials distorted Survival Evasion Resistance and Escape “SERE” training – a legitimate program used by the military to train our troops to resist abusive enemy interrogations – by authorizing abusive techniques from SERE for use in detainee interrogations. Those decisions conveyed the message that abusive treatment was appropriate for detainees in U.S. custody. They were also an affront to the values articulated by General Petraeus.
In SERE training, U.S. troops are briefly exposed, in a highly controlled setting, to abusive interrogation techniques used by enemies that refuse to follow the Geneva Conventions. The techniques are based on tactics used by Chinese Communists against American soldiers during the Korean War for the purpose of eliciting false confessions for propaganda purposes. Techniques used in SERE training include stripping trainees of their clothing, placing them in stress positions, putting hoods over their heads, subjecting them to face and body slaps, depriving them of sleep, throwing them up against a wall, confining them in a small box, treating them like animals, subjecting them to loud music and flashing lights, and exposing them to extreme temperatures. Until recently, the Navy SERE school also used waterboarding. The purpose of the SERE program is to provide U.S. troops who might be captured a taste of the treatment they might face so that they might have a better chance of surviving captivity and resisting abusive and coercive interrogations.

Senator Levin then documents that SERE techniques were deployed as part of an official policy on detainees, and that SERE instructors helped to implement the interrogation programs.
The senior Army SERE psychologist warned in 2002 against using SERE training techniques during interrogations in an email to personnel at Guantanamo Bay, because:


[T]he use of physical pressures brings with it a large number of potential negative side effects… When individuals are gradually exposed to increasing levels of discomfort, it is more common for them to resist harder… If individuals are put under enough discomfort, i.e. pain, they will eventually do whatever it takes to stop the pain. This will increase the amount of information they tell the interrogator, but it does not mean the information is accurate. In fact, it usually decreases the reliability of the information because the person will say whatever he believes will stop the pain… Bottom line: the likelihood that the use of physical pressures will increase the delivery of accurate information from a detainee is very low. The likelihood that the use of physical pressures will increase the level of resistance in a detainee is very high… (p. 53).

...
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/05/u-s-government-used-communist-torture-techniques-specifically-designed-to-produce-false-confessions.html

[revelarts]

Torture in Texas 1983

...
In 1983, federal prosecutors charged a Texas sheriff and three of his deputies with violating prisoners' civil rights by forcing confessions. The complaint alleged that the officers conspired to "subject prisoners to a suffocating water torture ordeal in order to coerce confessions. This generally included the placement of a towel over the nose and mouth of the prisoner and the pouring of water in the towel until the prisoner began to move, jerk, or otherwise indicate that he was suffocating and/or drowning."

The four defendants were convicted, and the sheriff was sentenced to 10 years in prison.

We know that U.S. military tribunals and U.S. judges have examined certain types of water-based interrogation and found that they constituted torture. That's a lesson worth learning. The study of law is, after all, largely the study of history. The law of war is no different. This history should be of value to those who seek to understand what the law is -- as well as what it ought to be.
Evan Wallach, a judge at the U.S. Court of International Trade in New York, teaches the law
of war as an adjunct professor at Brooklyn Law School and New York Law School. ...


Waterboarding Used to Be a Crime
By Evan Wallach
Sunday, November 4, 2007

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/02/AR2007110201170_pf.html

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

How about we just cut their damn heads off and VIDEO it?
Seems no true outrage from the dem/libs/leftists on that tactic being used...
You'd be hard pressed to get any of them to openly condemn their favorite---freedom fighters-- and that technique yet let us cause temporary discomfort to a known and proven murdering terrorist and they raise hell--scream for punishment of those doing that..
Hypocrites one and all- I think every damn dem/lib/leftist should be water boarded every damn week for life. Works for me, I'd pay good money to watch such justice be delivered to such ffing , lying and stupid vermin.--Tyr

[tailfins]

Wouldn't administering a truth serum work lots better to get information?

[LongTermGuy]

How about we just cut their damn heads off and VIDEO it?
Seems no true outrage from the dem/libs/leftists on that tactic being used...
You'd be hard pressed to get any of them to openly condemn their favorite---freedom fighters-- and that technique yet let us cause temporary discomfort to a known and proven murdering terrorist and they raise hell--scream for punishment of those doing that..
Hypocrites one and all- I think every damn dem/lib/leftist should be water boarded every damn week for life. Works for me, I'd pay good money to watch such justice be delivered to such ffing , lying and stupid vermin.--Tyr

`I think every damn dem/lib/leftist should be outed and `DEPORTED To the Middle-East and Given their very own KORAN ..compliments from the American Tax-payers......The Black caucus can have a free one way ticket to AFRICA ...since they call themselves "African-Americans" ...and not just Americans....`

[aboutime]

Wouldn't administering a truth serum work lots better to get information?


You decide on that. http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2013/06/is-there-really-truth-serum-drugs/

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

`I think every damn dem/lib/leftist should be outed and `DEPORTED To the Middle-East and Given their very own KORAN ..compliments from the American Tax-payers......The Black caucus can have a free one way ticket to AFRICA ...since they call themselves "African-Americans" ...and not just Americans....`

I nominate both as good policy and measures to insure our future freedoms.. :beer: :salute:--Tyr

[tailfins]

You decide on that. http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2013/06/is-there-really-truth-serum-drugs/

I'm not a military expert. It was just an idea. Too many people both left and right don't have the honesty to say, "I just don't know much about that topic."

[LongTermGuy]

I nominate both as good policy and measures to insure our future freedoms.. :beer: :salute:--Tyr



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYNSbpLdQuY

[red states rule]

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/tmdsu14120920141210041110.jpg

[aboutime]

Obama's political buddies, the New Black Panther's, and the DNC WATERBOARDED Black Americans to convince them to VOTE often for Obama. That was desperation, and torture for an entire nation.